The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Move On After an Abusive Relationship? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

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I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your mental health, your relationships, your work, your money, anything and everything. We're here for you. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend and best-selling author, Ken Coleman, and we are taking your calls on life.

888-825-5225. If you're struggling with relationships at home, businesses are slowly starting to open back up, and people are trying to figure out after a year or two years of working at home what it's going to be like to travel again or drive or those who have been back in workplaces are looking to shift and change. If you're dealing with leadership challenges where you work, if you're dealing with personal relationships, money challenges,

whatever's going on, give us a shout. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Jasmine in Seattle. Hey, Jasmine, what's going on? Hi. Thank you for taking my call today. You bet. Thanks for calling, what's going on? Hi. Thank you for taking my call today. You bet. Thanks for calling. What's going on? I, over the weekend, was the end of my relationship. I am a mom to a one and four-year-old, and we left and came to my mom's in Seattle. We were in Alaska.

And now I am looking at fighting for custody and trying to figure out how to start life on my own as a single mom at 26, and it's just kind of scary. Yeah, it's so scary. Why'd you leave Alaska? What happened? Well, the kid's dad is an alcoholic and has struggled with substance abuse with other drugs. And he's not physically abusive, but mentally, emotionally, financially.

And it's been like two years up there of just the same pattern of things going okay for a couple weeks. And then he starts going out all night, not answering the phone, and just like disappears on a bender. So what happened that made you say, this is enough, this is enough, this is enough, I'm out of here. I'm getting my two little ones and we're gone. Um, well, we got into an argument and, uh, he told me to leave. I brought the kids with me because he was intoxicated at the time. Um, and then he came and got them from me intoxicated. And I didn't, I was scared. I didn't know know what to do I didn't feel safe trying to go and get them physically myself and I called the police good for you good for you Jasmine good for you I don't know that's hard but you did the right thing so how can we help what can I help you

with um I think the biggest thing is I'm just worried about the kids because they're so really young, so I don't think they fully understand what's happening and why we're not with dad and why we're not in Alaska. And I'm mostly just trying to explain to my four-year-old, you know, she saw daddy get arrested, you know. So I think the most important thing now is to solve for things in order. Okay. So the first thing I want you to do is solve for safe, solve for safety. And you're with your parents now, you said? Yeah, I'm with my mom. And that's a safe place for you? Yes. And by safe,

I mean, not just not abusive, but there's food, there's shelter, you got the lights are on, that's a good place. Yes. Great. Or, it's going to be tempting to try to talk, explain things to your kids. What your kids need right now is you and your presence and your mom's presence. They need adults in their life to be calm and stable. And not that they're not going to be grieving or be upset or weeping or anything like that, but they are going to be able to look them in the eye to go for a walk, right?

Touch, presence, connection is going to speak volumes to them right now. And when they ask questions, we're not going to talk bad about dad. Dad's struggling with stuff, but we are going to tell the truth, and we're going to tell him daddy's struggling, and we're going to be staying here for a little while. And then I want you to start to think over time what is this what's it going to mean legally what are the legal ramifications and are you going to get a professional to walk through that with you do you have a community of other women in your life that

it's not your mom that you can sit down and just say this sucks with um well I'm starting to kind of build that into banks. Good. Well, yeah, not good actually. Sorry. Not good. But I do have, I have cousins and other extended family here in Washington as well. Good. So one more thing. I want you to go to betterhelp.com and I know you've just moved to a new town and you can go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney and they'll give you a discount. I want you to go to betterhelp.com, and I know you've just moved to a new town, and you can go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney, and they'll give you a discount. I want you to find a professional counselor to start talking to today. Will you promise that you'll do that? Yes.

Thank you. And talking with a professional, they're going to walk alongside you, and they're going to be with you not just on a 10-minute phone call on the radio, but they're going to be with you tomorrow and they're going to be with you not just on a 10-minute phone call on the radio, but they're going to be with you tomorrow and the week after that and the week after that. And if you have access to counseling resources there in your community, great. I would reach out to somebody because you're going to want someone to walk with you over the next few weeks, few months.

John and Jasmine, I want to give you something. And John, I want you to prescribe this. I don't know what the timing is from a counseling standpoint, but while you're getting healthy and while she's getting healthy, there's a season on that. However, Jasmine, as soon as John thinks it's smart, I want you to, in the near future, begin to focus on your future. That's today, Jasmine, by the way. Okay, good.

Once you're safe, we've got to start looking for how are we going to eat and things like that. So there's two things I want you to do. I'm glad you're safe, we've got to start looking for how are we going to eat and things like that. So there's two things I want you to do. I'm glad you're safe with mom, but I want you to focus on provision and contribution. Those are your two words, okay? Provision means I want you to figure out what work looks like for you. It doesn't have to be dream job yet. We're not worried about that.

I just want you to get into the act of getting into work and knowing that you as a single mom are enough and that you can provide for those little ones. Because you've gone through some tremendous stuff and it begins to make you doubt so much. And I want you to show yourself that you can and you will provide for those beautiful children. So that's provision, okay? The second thing is as you get on your feet and you begin to work and you begin to see that you can provide and that you are strong enough, I want you to begin to think, and I want you to begin to wonder, what is it that I want to do? Do I want to eventually get married and be a stay-at-home mom? That's great. So you're working for a season, or is there something professional that you want to do,

a contribution that you want to make and And make that contribution. Find work where you see value in your work. There's value in all work, but I want you to maybe look for work in Seattle where you are making a difference in the lives of people that you connect to. I think that's important to the healing process. So those are your words, provision and contribution. And I think it's going to help speed up your healing, Jasmine, because no matter what he said or did to you, you have a tremendous amount of value to the world, not just to those kiddos. You got me?

Yeah, thank you. And Jasmine, one more thing. One of the great evils of abusive relationships is that you look in the mirror and you begin to believe that nonsense. And I want you to hear me and Ken say, you're worthy of being loved, you did the right thing taking care of those kids,

and you have value, regardless of what some knucklehead has told you. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. for a lot of you last year was another year of just trying to survive but you don't have to live like that you can have confidence in your money and your future. So if you're tired of being stressed out all the time, you can decide to make a change. You can follow a plan that works. For almost 30 years, Financial Peace University has helped millions of people take control of their money. You'll learn our proven plan to save money, pay off debt, build wealth, and give generously. Watch FPU on demand or get plugged into a class for encouragement and support from other

people. You don't have to face another year of stress and worry. You can have confidence in your money. FPU is only available with a Ramsey Plus membership. Start for free by visiting RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. That's RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. 888-825-5225 This is the Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls on your money, your life, your relationships, your work.

Whatever's going on in your life, give us a shout. 888-825-5225 Ken, you've got some articles here, brother. brother yeah so i i thought this is the reality uh where we uh need to be talking about this so let's just set the table since august of 2021, we saw 18.5 plus million people change jobs. Can you contextualize that for me in history? Because that feels like one of those great migrations that happens. It is. So for people who aren't paying attention to this in the news, a lot of economists have

called this the Great Resignation. But to answer your question, it's historic in that each month we had 4.2, 4.3, 4.5. Each month, August through December, was 4 million plus. That had never happened before. Any one of those months would have been a record. People leaving in one month. So never before in the history of the American economy had 4 million people left a job in one month. So then do that times four or five.

So it just kept going. We'll see the job numbers coming out soon. And so we'll see, is it continuing? A lot of people think it's going to continue. But it's not affecting the overall unemployment rate. So they're leaving jobs to go to other jobs. No, it's a big, I'll tell you what it is. It's a bit of musical chairs.

Ah, okay. Because as all these people are leaving, so everybody's leveling up. other jobs no it's a big it's i'll tell you what it is it's a bit of musical chairs okay because all these people are leaving so everybody's leveling up so let's say uh somebody leaves so sarah leaves company xyz to go to company abc that leaves a hole at company xyz sarah left company xyz to go to abc for a bump so that puts company XYZ in a hole. What am I going to have to pay somebody now? I was paying Sarah this much money to replace her. I'm going to have to pay her more.

So a part of this inflation stuff we hear, now let's talk about money here on the Ramsey Show. It's a money show. A part of the inflation is the cost of jobs. So coming out of the pandemic, we saw hourly rates go up. So Walmart, Target, Amazon, they jump in and they go, all right, forget the federal government. We're going to raise our minimum wage to $15, $17 an hour. So then it becomes an arms race.

So companies are competing for talent, and people are leveling up and making more money. So is there come a break-even point when the business is better off looking at the people who are thinking about leaving and taking care of them before they jump ship? A hundred percent. So I'm hearing a lot of conversations about what does a workplace environment look like that becomes more hospitable and becomes more retention-focused and holistic, then I'm giving you this wage. I own you for the next eight hours. That's right. Then we'll get up and do it again tomorrow.

And so what's happened, because that has been the general leadership view, you need a job, and so I don't have to treat you probably as well as I need to. Well, then the pandemic comes along. New jobs are created. Opportunities and people are going, wait a second, you're treating me like a commodity. I'm going to go get mine. And see, I wonder if there's even a psychological component to, oh, this can all end any moment. I'm going to live my life on my terms more than let some boss that I don't know in some suite across the country run my life. That's exactly right. So we bring this article to you today because, John, here's the reality.

In an audience this large, there are people out there who are going, you know what, my work is literally making me sick, right? So here are, from CompTIA.org, these are signs that your job is making you sick. I'm going to run through these quickly, John, and then you and I are going to break this down. What is leadership doing that are creating these physical symptoms? And then what does a person do to try to treat themselves in the process of deciding, do I leave this environment?

So here we go. One is insomnia. You can't sleep. A lot of this is due to work stress. You can't get your mind off of work. And you lay down at night physically and mentally and emotionally exhausted and still can't go to sleep. Another one is you sleep too much. All right?

So you're sleeping too much to cope with all of the elevated adrenaline and cortisol levels. Three, you're losing weight. You can't even think about eating because you're so focused on the fight or flight mode from the work. Four, you're gaining weight. As the adrenaline

and cortisol levels increase due to challenging work environment, it's not uncommon to put on weight. So I know that I'm an emotional eater. So if I had somebody, John, come at me and get all over me and a boss treat me like,

you know, just like i'm a piece of junk i'm hitting the chips and salsa oh yeah i'm just telling you yeah so so i i just want people to go hey there's no shame in your game number four that would be me and when my boss calls me in and says i just need you to know you are doing incredible work i go celebrate with chips and salsa that too i am an emotional leader i'll have john diagnose me during the break. No, I'm the worst. Right. Number five, you feel tired and unmotivated. Obviously, fatigue here. High stress too long, it's going to zap you.

Number six, you get colds more often. John, you were the first one to kind of tell me about this. I didn't realize how much stress affects our immune system. Yeah. It's unbelievable. Number seven, it takes you longer to recover from minor illnesses because of, again, all the factors we've been walking through. Number eight, you exercise less often.

You have no motivation. Nine, you're withdrawing socially because that unhappiness at work bleeds into your personal life. And then ten, your doctor starts to express concern, blood pressure, cholesterol levels, all physical effects as a result of a toxic environment or a horrible boss. And I want to point out a couple things real quick. One, we often look at what our neighbor in our workplace is going through and think, I'm not going through that. This is important to point out because stress affects different people differently because of their life experiences because of their genetics because of

trauma or not this stuff ping pongs around so it's really important to know your body and i also think it's important to note this isn't all causal right this isn't this causes that this that causes that usually what happens is you find yourself so stressed out like we got here on the back you stop taking care of your diet yeah quit working out, you quit hanging out with other people, you spend more time scrolling, less time sleeping, and all of a sudden these things start stacking up. I agree. And I think what you just said is absolutely important for people to hear. We compound the problem. So I just wanted to briefly touch on a couple leadership things, but I want you to tell the audience, okay, what do you do?

Like how do you self-care in a situation where you can't leave right away? Because let's stress this. We never tell anybody on the Ken Coleman Show or the Ramsey Show, hey, if you're in a tough environment, just walk out today. No, no, no, no, no, no. If you financially can, then we say yes. But unless you've got the financial wherewithal and freedom to do so, you're going to have to come up with a plan. And, John, I want you to talk about what they can do for self-care, but let me just identify, because I want people to understand that this isn't okay. And so when you've got a leader who is basically taking their burden and dumping it on you, and they're going, you've got to do more because I can't do anything about it, and they're not shouldering the load with you. They're not going, this is for a season. This is only going to be here.

Or they're not rewarding you as a part of this. You are feeling like you are nothing more than just a person who does whatever they want, whenever they need it. There's no value. And that starts to wear on people. That's what's driving this, is people feeling like a commodity, not a person. Well, and they get, as our friend Jaco says, they get no ownership, yet all the responsibility. You don't get to decide what's going. Nobody asks your opinion. They tell you what you're going to do and how you're going to do it and when you're going to do it.

And then that's a recipe for, dude, I'm going to go have some sort of autonomy and be able to speak into my own life. So what can the audience do if they're in this situation to at least stem the tide of these negative physical things? I think the most important thing they can do is to acknowledge this is happening. Yeah. Most of us don't have, it took me years to figure out and draw, begin to connect the dots in my life that this work environment that I have to be honest to look in the mirror, not always, but often I was allowing, or I was taking on too much because I wanted to get an extra certificate or an extra

gold star. I was carrying things about my business and my industry that nobody asked me to carry. Right. That's not everybody, right? That's me. Um, you have to call it out and say, this is killing me. This is melting my marriage, or I'm not being the parent I could be because of this. You've got to start there with owning, being honest. And then, it sounds so trite, but all you can do in these situations is control two things on planet Earth. You, your thoughts, and your actions. That's it, my man. That's it. Don't be afraid to ask for help ask for help ask people to help you with your thoughts ask for people to help you with a workout plan ask people to help you with sleep go see a doctor

and then start asking people to walk it walk alongside you as they help you find a new place to live. From Sumner, South Carolina, on the phone we have Jeff, and it says here on my screen that you are debt-free. Jeff, are you there? I'm in here. Can you hear me? Oh, yes. Hey, a cool thing you do when you're talking to somebody on the phone is to pick it up. So my bad. Let's start that again. Jeff from Sumner, South Carolina.

My screen says you're debt-free. Is that right? That is correct. Congratulations, my brother. How much have you paid off? I paid off the last $30,000, and that was to my mortgage. Wow. Wow, you did it.

So what was your total amount of your entire journey? For the mortgage? No, for your entire debt-free adventure here. That was it, $30,000. That was the only thing I had was my mortgage. I am totally, totally debt-free. Wow. Phenomenal, man.

So how long have you been on this journey? This is over the last 12 months. And what was your income in this time? A little over $50,000. A little over $50,000, and you cranked out $30,000 of that? Yes. It was tight, but it was right. That's well done there. So what do you do for a living, brother? I'm actually a retired military, retired Air Force. Retired Air Force. Thank you for your service, Jeff.

Yes, sir. So what happened a year ago that you said, I'm sick of having a mortgage, I'm done with this, and I'm going to send more than half of my annual salary to get this thing paid off?

Well, it actually was going to be a year earlier, but this virus thing kicked up, and I was like, I actually was going to be a year earlier, but this virus thing kicked up and I was like, I better push on the brakes a little bit, slow down on my intense payoff on this mortgage. But then I let up off the brake this last year and I just went for it and I just paid it all off. I just, I was like, I am done paying the bank any more money than I have to. I am getting out of this. So I paid it off. Real quick aside, Jeff, what virus are you talking about? Just kidding.

There's a rumor going around there's a virus out there. So you decide a year ago, I'm done with this thing. I'm going to get this through. How'd you get connected to the Ramsey Squad? I've been listening for quite a while. I can't get it locally, so I've been listening on the iHeartRadio, so I listen mostly to the podcast, but I've been listening pretty carefully, and every debt-free screen gets me that much more pumped up to do my own screen. That's fantastic. So walk us through your journey. What was the key to getting out of debt? I think just getting out of debt,

just having that vision of like, what could I be doing with this money that I'm paying to my mortgage in another more positive way other than giving it back to the bank plus all their interests. And I just like, I'm done with it. And especially when you're on a fixed income, because this is basically my income is my pension. So there wasn't a lot of outside monies coming in. So I was like, you know, I'm on a fixed income. I want to use as much of that as I can. And getting rid of this mortgage, this debt, is going to give you much more possibilities.

Now, Jeff, you said it was tight, but it was right. And that, by the way, that's the bumper sticker of the day. That's fantastic. My question is, how tight was it? What were some of the big sacrifices you had to make? You know, it's over time because obviously my mortgage paid off in 11 years, so it's actually pretty early. But so I gradually and gradually kept paying more and more,

so I just kind of eased back on any kind of extra spending but i didn't uh you know my spending was pretty my budget was pretty tight anyway as far as not not too much extremes or anything so it wasn't a big sacrifice but you know just uh not going out for meals cooking everything at home just uh doing the the traditional rice and beans beans and rice kind of a kind of diet as well as everything else is kind of fixated on getting this mortgage paid off. So anything else was basically this can wait. I don't have to, nothing but just pay my bills and pay the mortgage and get out of this. Yeah, when I look at just the math, $30,000 over 12 months against a $50,000 salary, you were living quite Spartan, my man.

Oh, yes. You were for real beans and rice. Is there something you're never going to eat again as a result of this journey? No, not really. I mean, you know, I guess I'm pretty set in my ways as far as I'm pretty, you know, everything's kind of, everything's the same. So no, no, I remember a long time ago when I was promotion testing, I lived on bologna sandwiches every day for lunch while I was preparing for my test. So I will never eat bologna again.

That's for one thing. All right. All right. That does rhyme with my last name. So thanks for bringing that up. But it was good. It was, you know, and I think you got to go through the struggle. It does rhyme with my last name, so thanks for bringing that up. But it was good. And I think you've got to go through the struggle.

It makes it feel much better when you're finally over that hump and get that last check. That's right. It just makes it that much sweeter. So, Jeff, who was your biggest cheerleaders when you were going through this? You know, I kind of kept it on the down low because, you know, it's one of those things like, am I really going to make this? Is this really going to happen? So I didn't put a lot of like, hey, this is what I'm doing kind of thing. But I did tell people, hey, so I'm doing this. And they just kind of said, yeah, that's nice because, you know, everybody has debt and everybody thinks

you're going to get out of it. But you got to want to get out of that debt. You want to get to the other side. And that's why I wanted it, and I got it. I see that picture of you up on our screen with that beautiful yellow lab. What's the dog's name? That is Casper. Casper was with you the whole time. That's kind of cool. Oh, yes.

So did your friends and colleagues think you were nuts during this journey? Did they what? Did they think you just had gone bonkers? Not really. I didn't really throw it over their heads all the time and stuff. I just kept saying, hey, I'm paying down my mortgage, paying down my mortgage. This is all I got to go on. This is all the debt I have. And they're like, kind of amazed by that because, you know, everybody has car loans and everything else and stuff. But I only had one

thing. And so they were probably maybe envious, you know, under their breath. But I didn't really tell a lot of people about it because I wasn't sure it was going to happen until it happened. So if somebody is sitting there just with their headphones in, they're doing their job, they're driving somewhere, tell them what it feels like to weight of the world is off your shoulders because no matter what happens, your house is paid for, everything's paid for. It just makes life, as Dave says, you know, walking through the grass, it feels fresher, although it's wintertime, so I'm not walking barefoot through the grass right now. But it feels fresher. The grass feels better.

Everything just feels different. The house even seems larger now that it's paid off. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm curious. Have you allowed yourself to wonder, dream a little bit now that you're on the other side of this debt? I'm curious. What are you thinking about now that life has changed and you can actually do something more with that money? Yes.

The first thing I'm going to do is basically my plan for the next six months is putting that same amount of money that I was paying down the house, which is a large amount, into savings. And then this summer, I'm going to do the live and give like no one else motto and hoping to get involved with some of the boys and girls clubs around here and see if there's anything I can do as far as helping kids go to camp that can't afford it. You're an amazing human being, my brother. That is cool. Well, Jeff, we've got a copy of the legacy journey for you. And we're going to give you a copy of Dave's new book, Baby Steps, Millionaires, because that's your next step. And unless you give it all away, because you're a giving guy, we're also going to give you a copy of the total money makeover for you to hand to somebody else as they begin their journey. Someone's going to come up to you in the next month and say, man, I'm struggling. You're going to say, I've got it.

Hang on. And you're going to be able to give them this book. We are so proud of you, my brother. You're a great human being. Thank you for your service. And thank you for your, you're going to celebrate this by giving it away, which is just extraordinary. All right. We've got Jeff from Sumter, South Carolina, paid off $30,000.

His mortgage, he's a weird man. In one year, count them down, Jeff. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm totally debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! I'm trying to do the math in my head, Ken.

I think he had rice and beans once a week. Oh, yeah, and we tried to crack him. He wasn't going to tell us. None. All we know is that he's never eating bologna again. But I think he likes the rice and beans is what I took away from it. And if you ever doubt the heart and mind of our servicemen and women, that means able to shut it down and be disciplined and accomplish a goal in a short period and women. Yeah. That means able to... Tremendous discipline....to shut it down and be disciplined and accomplish a goal in a short period of time.

Incredible. If you're driving along and you think, I'm going to have this stupid mortgage forever, you don't have to. You don't have to. Get after it. Get after it and get it done. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Toronto, Canada and talk to Shanice. Shanice, what's going on?

Hi, guys. It's great to talk to you. It's great to talk to you. What's going on? Okay, I'm really nervous, so forgive me if I don't make a lot of sense. I'm going to try my best. Just a little background about me. I am 29. I'm married. I have a child and I have been struggling with starting or wanting to start a business. So I've wanted to start a business forever. But I always feel like there's always something that I always have to put in front of that and focus on. And the biggest thing that I'm struggling right now is just like the fear and then also like struggling to just kind of stay in my comfort zone and not put myself out

there. And yeah, I was just curious if you guys had any advice to kind of like, you know, get going because, you know, one day I really like I'm dreaming about having that call that tells you guys we've paid off our mortgage kind of thing. Sure. So here's what I want to focus on first. I want to focus on specifically what you're afraid of. What are you afraid of? I want you to be very specific. I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is definitely just putting myself out there.

I would call myself more of an introvert, so I definitely feel more comfortable just being in my own head and my own thoughts. What's the business? So I do fashion illustration and just like illustrations in general, but I've struggled to even put like my work out there because I'm really afraid of like people's opinion about it. Sure. So I'll get to that in a second. And John, as a psychologist, I'm sure can go even deeper. But I'm just curious, who would pay you for that kind of work?

Where's that coming from? So when I researched it, you could know women who just like having like nice illustrations as artwork maybe in their home um or something like that but i also know that uh there will be like large corporations like in the fashion industry or not necessarily in the fashion industry that will use that for like campaign work okay um and things along that nature all right and so the dream business for you and i don't want you to get too hung up on this, but what's the dream look like? Who are you doing it for?

Is it full-time? What kind of money are you making? Give me that dream. It's kind of embarrassing to say. No, it's not. The dream business would be doing that full-time in some capacity or being able to have a product-based business that I could sell things to women, goods to women that make them feel good about themselves and feel happy.

Gotcha. Now, these goods to women, that's another creative venture. That's not just illustrations. That's you creating something with your hands. True or false. That's another creative venture. That's not just illustrations. That's you creating something with your hands, true or false? That's true. Okay, here's what I want to ask you. When was the last time you showed anybody? I don't even care if it's your husband.

When was the last time you showed anybody some of your illustrations or your crafts? It was definitely my husband, and it was probably like two weeks ago. And you've showed nobody else? No other friend? No. No acquaintance. Okay. So I'm going to pass it to my pal, who's a psychologist, and dig into the why.

But here's a challenge I've got for you, okay? Okay. At some point, you have to determine whether or not this is going to be a dream or a nightmare. And it's going to become a nightmare for you if you never do it. So at some point, you're going to have to put yourself out there, which means face rejection. And here's what I want you to do. I have two homework assignments for you, and I'll give it to John. One homework assignment is I want you to actually release, show a craft or an illustration on social media that

you're already on. I want you to just put it out there. Just put it out there and just let people do what they're going to do with it. It has nothing to do with how great it looks or what they're going to say. I just want you to put it out there and just see what happens. That's homework assignment number one. Homework assignment number two. I want you to research or reconnect with the story, the biography, or just the story that you're aware of, of a designer that you admire. And I want you to just dig in, become an expert in their story, and find out how much they dealt with rejection and failure. That's what I want you to do. So Shanice, I'm not a psychologist, but I'm a nerd on the radio. Who has told you that your work is garbage?

No one specifically has ever told me my work is garbage. Who has ever told you that you're garbage? No one specifically has ever said those words to me, but just definitely situations I've been in where I've failed have made me feel like that. So you're carrying around a story that your failure at a thing, whether it's dodgeball or volleyball or mowing a yard or painting, equates to you are a failure.

Yeah, I guess so. What I want you to do is set that story down because that story's inaccurate. It's weighing on you like a brick and you're carrying it around with you everywhere. And it weighs on your marriage. It weighs on your son. And most importantly, it weighs on you.

And it's robbing people in our community, in our world. It's robbing them of your art, of your connectivity, of your gifts. You hear what I'm saying? The way to go through challenging these stories that you carry around with you is I want you to get a small little journal, a small little book. You can spend 99 cents at Walmart or you can go overpay on Etsy for some fancy leather journal or whatever. But I want you to begin to write down these stories. I failed at this, and no one's ever going to love my work. I failed at this one time.

I screwed this up. And I want you to write these stories down, however nonsensical they are. I want you to get them out of your head and onto paper. Get them out of your body so you can look at them. And then I want you to demand evidence from them. Is this true? Is the fact that this thing that this person told me when I was 13, is that really, am I really a bad mom? The answer to that would be no. Am I really not worthy of

putting my art out there? The answer to that would be no, right? But you can only do that for yourself. And if it gets hard and heavy, if you've got past trauma to deal with, then go get a counselor and walk along to walk alongside you. But when you start challenging those stories you then get to hold the pen and stop trying to edit crap that's happened in your past but you get to write something new what comes next and then what ken said is perfect it the it's the it's aversion therapy right it's it's you're going to do something that scares you to death and you're going to post a picture and then you're going to find out that it doesn't kill you even if everybody hates it you're going to find out oh gosh my husband still loves me my kids still loves me my heart's still beating i'm all right yeah

right and they're not going to all hate it by the way they're going to love it or nice here's a question let's just ask you a general success question this is your opinion okay there's no right or wrong answer because this is your opinion. Do you think it is possible to move forward in any venture of life without failure? No, I don't think so. So then why in the world are you holding yourself to a standard that you don't even think exists? You just said it's impossible to move forward in any area of life, whether you're learning a sport, an

instrument, you're in class learning a topic, a subject, you're in business school, whatever. You said, you agreed, that it is impossible to move forward without failure and yet you're holding yourself to that. I guess it just feels safer. Yeah, it does.

You know why? Because we all hate the sting of rejection. It goes back to elementary school, John. When we wrote these notes, do you like me? Yes, no, or maybe. And we sat there in anticipation, waiting to see, do they like us?

You remember that, Shanice? Yeah, I do. All right, then. Rejection is part of the deal. It's the price of admission. And your designs and your crafts will speak to certain women. And you just got to put it out there. Do you believe us?

Yes, I do. All right. Thank you guys so much. I screwed up. It's not aversion therapy. It's exposure therapy. I want you to Google it, and I want you to challenge yourself. I want you to challenge yourself, okay? Google exposure

therapy, and make sure you put therapy at the other end of that Google search, right? Or just do what I told you to do, and who cares what it's called? There you go. I want to make sure I'm telling people the right things here. Alright, we'll be right back. That's another hour in the books. Thanks to Ken Coleman and the gang in the booth, James and Kelly. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, this is James, senior producer for The Ramsey Show.

Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramseyshow.com.