The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Raise a Special Needs Child Alongside My Other Child? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from their dollar car rental studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm John Deloney, joined here by the second handsomest guy on the team, Mr. Christopher Hogan. We're here to take your calls about life, about money.

Chris, how are we doing? Dude, we're doing great. I think you need to get your eyes checked because I have the face for radio. You do have the face. We both have the face for radio. That's fine. I'm fine with it. But I'm excited, man.

You're in the driver's seat, and I'm co-pilot. We've never done this. This is new for both of us. I am excited to go along this ride with you, and let's see how many people we can help. Let's do it. All right, let's go out to Katie in Philadelphia. By the way, give us a call at 888-825-5225. Katie already has.

It's 888-825-5225. Life, money, relationships, all of it. All right, let's go to Katie. Katie, how are we doing today? Hi, Dr. John, and hi, Chris. I'm doing well. How are you? Outstanding, outstanding.

As my friend Chris says, focused yet not finished. How can I help? I have a life question today. So I was wondering about how to tell young children about a pregnancy after you've had pregnancy loss in the past. So I have a three-year-old and a five-year-old. And last year I had a late miscarriage and then, well, the year before that, actually, and then I had a stillbirth um so both of those were pretty traumatic um for the kids especially my five-year-old

so um so and now i'm 12 weeks pregnant oh congratulations okay congratulations so i don't want to speak into your world okay but the way you just said this was you're worried about their hearts and their trauma and how this impacted them which is noble and fair but i want to make sure that you're honoring your own challenges to here too is that fair yes okay all right um My wife and I have been down this road multiple times. Multiple times it was hard. And multiple times I misunderstood just how hard it was because I was only looking through my two eyes and I did not experience what my wife was experiencing. And so I want to make sure you feel fully at peace and you are fully supported in experiencing the challenges that both the joys and the fear and the excitement of all of this so when it comes to talking to your kids

how did the conversation go last time um i think we probably told them around this time especially well they were two and four at that point um and they and they were excited. Um, but I know after our second, um, loss, um, my five-year-old especially really had a hard time. Um, and so they both took it really well. We were excited when I was pregnant and the three-year-old was, um, he didn't, we, we knew, um, the baby had a life limiting condition so we we knew we probably weren't going to get much time with him if he was born um so it wasn't so that we had like um anticipated grief um basically my five-year-old or four-year-old then he kind of understood that to some extent um a little as much as a you know

preschooler can yeah um so here's here's kind of my rule of thumb not kind of here is my rule of thumb you don't have to tell anybody anything until you're ready to tell anybody anything and if you are nervous about the previous two, you're nervous about talking to your kids again, there is no rush. There's no rule that says you have to tell everybody at 12 weeks. That's become the generalized standard, right? At 12 weeks, you announce it to everybody, you social media it up, and not everybody has dealt with the depth and power of the loss you've dealt with.

So you don't owe anybody anything. Okay. I would continue to honor the lives of the two babies you lost. And in my house, we refer to them by name and my kids understand them. And occasionally, very rarely, once a year, once every couple of years,'ve got a 10-year-old and a 4 1⁄2, almost 5-year-old. They'll ask a question, and we speak openly and honestly in the house, and that took us several years to get there. But you don't owe them any explanation any earlier than you're ready to give it to them. That said, when you decide to be open and talk to them, be honest with them.

As our friend Rachel says, share, don't scare, but be honest with them. And here's the one thing to watch out for. As your pregnancy progresses and you find yourself getting tense, as you find yourself getting nervous when doctor's appointments show up, when you find yourself waking up and suddenly your body feels a little bit different on that Saturday morning and you get panicked, understand your body's just trying to take care of you, and understand that those little kids are going to absorb that anxiety. They're going to absorb that tension, and often little kids will turn around and make that tension their fault, and they'll start trying to solve it for you. And so letting them know in a careful, age-appropriate way,

and also let them know that we're praying for the baby, that we are going to continue to be hopeful and optimistic and joyful, and also being honest about the past. All of that stuff kids can handle in age-appropriate ways. And they don't do well with secrets and dishonesty. Yeah, and Katie, I would tell you, they want to know how our mom and dad, that they want to know you all are okay. And I think if they can know that you're okay, then that gives them permission to be okay.

But I love what John is saying, and as far as honoring it and you being up front, but I don't want you to have to put on a strong face for others. You hurt, obviously, and you have excitement. And I want to be praying for you and this upcoming baby, but making sure that you're talking to them and being up front. It sounds like you have been, which is a good thing because it'll help them become more well-rounded in understanding and processing, especially if the door is open to be able to come talk about it openly. There is few things you can gift your kids, Chris, than the ability to show them, to model for them how to grieve, how to hurt.

Here's what an adult looks like when they are hurting. If you hide that from your kids, they go through life thinking everything's wonderful. And then when they are hit with hurt for the first time, they don't have a model for what that looks like it's a good point they don't know what it looks like right and so let your kids know i'm really sad let your kids know that we are so excited we're having a new baby and we still remember your brothers that we lost that's right and that's hard and nobody wants that those conversations don't come in our manual. Right. No. That that manual they didn't give us when we left the hospital the first time. Right. And that's the gritty, raw, ugly part of being a parent.

But it's also where generational legacies are changed when you give kids tools that you may not have got yourself. When you teach kids what honesty looks like, when you teach kids what real emotion looks like. And this just isn't with pregnancy, right? Oh, no, no. This is with life. I mean, I remember being a young man and my grandfather, us burying his dad, and I'll never forget seeing him cry. And I thought, my gosh, I'd never seen that man cry.

That's right. But now you have a picture. And I knew it was okay to do. That's right. Because he did it. Forever. Yes. Right?

Absolutely. It's a gift. It's a gift. It's not a weakness. It's a gift. It's a gift. It's not a weakness. It's a gift, right? No, that's exactly right. Katie, we'll be praying for you, thinking about you. This is a blessed time and a scaring time.

And we are here with you. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. With more frequency than you know, I get calls and emails from people dealing with the recent loss of a spouse or a parent. You can hear the struggle and the heartache that they've been experiencing. And at a time they should be grieving, what breaks my heart the most is the strain and tension that they're going through because of money, especially when it's a situation that could have been avoided. If you have a family, it is your responsibility to have term life insurance. It's one of the things you do to say I love you. And yes, this is an ad for Zander Insurance.

But since this is one of the most effective ways I have to get my point across, so be it. For over 20 years, I've been telling you about the importance of term life insurance and protecting your family. Listen, you need to check out Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. I can't say it enough. Protect your family. It's what you're supposed to do. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney here with my co-host Chris Hogan. We're here to talk about your life and your money.

Listen, Christmas is supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year. And Chris, I can't think of any moment in this year that needs to be injected with more joy and more laughter than right now i agree thanksgiving and christmas yes we need to embrace these holiday seasons like we never have before please yes supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year but if you and your spouse aren't on the same page with money then all of the season can quickly turn to stress and drama, idiots, money fights. Don't let that happen. Nope. This year, give yourself a gift that's truly marriage-changing.

The Ramsey Plus Marriage Bundle is the ultimate collection of teachings and tools that will help you start handling your money as a team, including a Ramsey Plus membership and Rachel Cruz's latest book, Know Yourself and Know Your Money. That book comes with it. That's brand new. That's brand new. For the last 30 years,

Dave's been talking about dealing with your money issues, make the best decision right now, make the best decision tomorrow. And Rachel goes all the way back and says, here's where that stuff comes from. You're following the scripts. You're following the models. Here's some ways that you can overcome the models you've been living into.

And with this bundle, you'll learn how to have healthy money conversations, create a realistic budget that works for both of you. Dude, I'm the worst about realistic budgets, man. Share your dreams for the future and then make those dreams happen together. The Ramsey Plus Marriage Bundle is the perfect investment in your relationship all year long. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash store to get it today. That's DaveRamsey.com slash store. All right, let's go to Victoria in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Victoria, how are we doing today? Guys, I'm just living the dream out here.

How are you guys doing today? The exact same. The exact same. So how can we help? So this must be kid and life hour today because this is also not money related. But I'm hoping you guys can give me some good practical advice today regarding intentional parenting.

I love it. So my husband and I have an adorable five-year-old little boy who's a neurotypical kid. We also have a two-and-a-half-year-old little boy who also is adorable. He is severely disabled. So he has a lot of medical needs, which means we spend a lot of time at therapies, a lot of time at doctor's appointments, lots of stress,

lots of research on my end, right? So what I'm concerned about is the sibling dynamic between my two boys is different than what I experienced as a kid and is different than what I expected. And I know I'm not going to get a perfect, but my goal is to keep my oldest kind of between the goalposts. Like he's a great kid, but I want to make sure I don't overcompensate and he thinks it's all about him. Right. So I don't undercompensate and he thinks it's all about his brother. So how do I do that and how do I know when I'm getting it wrong? Well, Victoria, I can tell you this.

As a father of a special needs boy, my youngest son, Case, is special needs and it requires therapies and it's had a cognitive as well as physical impact. And he's got two older brothers. And so, you know, one of the things that I really want to encourage you with with this is this is your new normal. Okay. And you said something that was crucial. You said it wasn't the kind of sibling thing you grew up with, and it wasn't what you expected. But here you are, right? Here you are. And I firmly believe the Lord won't ever give us more than we can bear.

And so that child is a gift for you because you have what it takes to be able to guide him. And I would tell you, it's hard and it's repetitive. Let me say it one more time. It's hard and it's repetitive. But in this new normal, I think you've got a great opportunity to help your typical child really kind of begin to understand and develop a heart for understanding what exactly his brother's dealing with. And I think in looking at that, one of the things I used to say a lot to my older boys is that their younger brother doesn't understand. And so he doesn't understand what you understand. His brain doesn't work like yours. And so when you say things and these kinds of things that

I would tell them, it's okay for you to get upset, but just understand he doesn't understand. And so it's really one of those things where you're almost, you're there to be a guide to help them, but you're, you're helping the model. Now, here's what I'm going to tell you. My boys are now 16, 15, and my youngest special needs boys, 13. I'm going to tell you right now, his brothers come to his aid and work with him in ways that will just make my heart melt. And it's amazing because you go those years of repeating those years of man, will they ever get it? You know, be nice to him, be kind. He doesn't, you know, and you see it. And I'm going to tell you something. You take him the time to explain and sit down with that five year old and hold that, hold his hands and look at him and just say, Hey, your brother doesn't understand like you do. And I want you to say it again slower. And I want you to say it so much that what you're doing is you're piercing his heart for him to really begin to get this understanding that his little brother can't help himself.

And what will happen is his heart will start to turn. Now, it doesn't mean that he doesn't get to be five or six or seven and get frustrated, but have him come to you with that frustration, not at his younger brother, and just work with him and love on them both. And I'm going to tell you this last thing because I could talk on this for an hour. The things that you have to go to, the therapies, Lord knows, sitting in those doctor's appointments or, heaven forbid, sitting in a surgery center, what I want you to do is make the best of those times with your five-year-old.

Make the thing this rhythm of life that, yeahyear-old. Make the thing, this rhythm of life that, yeah, we are going to the doctor, but we're going to do this after the doctor. And whether it's getting a sucker or something, and just do that. But I want you to tell you this, and I'll hush and let Doc chime in. I want you to make sure, Victoria, that you get a group around you that loves you, that allows you to be you, and that allows you to let your hair down and hurt when you hurt. And so you can be real. You're Wonder Woman right now as you're raising these two kids. But you need somebody to let you just be a woman. And that's someone with feelings and emotions. Yes, ma'am. And Chris is able to

speak on this from lived experience. I've worked with special needs kids and young adults and their parents for years. here's a couple of things to just keep in your back pocket one of the greatest gifts you can give both of those kids is to have a really strong marriage and your marriage is going to look different now and y'all are going to grieve this these differences differently and i want you to give yourselves permission to grieve and don't beat yourselves up and feel guilty, the picture looks different. And like you said, it's not what you had drawn up.

But it's what you got. And it's okay to have those Saturdays when you just find yourself sitting in the floor of the kitchen crying real hard that this just sucks. And it does. And it sucks that your young baby, your two-year-old, your adorable little boy is going to have these

challenges and struggles, but check in and make sure you and your husband have a great marriage. The second thing is, is this is going to be exhausting. And I know I'm piling on here, but make sure you've got regular check-ins with your five-year-old, regular mom dates that you can find peace in, that your husband can take him on a special fishing trip. Even if it's just to a hole in the ground over there in the 505 in Albuquerque, right? You're not going to catch any fish in Albuquerque, but you're going to try, right? Not the point. But it's just intentional.

And if you've got to put your five-year-old on the calendar, there's going to be a part of that that you're going to have to get used to because you're not going to feel like that's what moms are supposed to do. It's in a different situation. And I want to, I'll leave this, I'll leave you with this. You're going to have to practice, and this isn't a skill that we all have. You're going to have to practice grace for yourself. When you have those mean thoughts, you're going to have to practice grace. When your husband told you he was listening to how the medicines are supposed to go and where the appointment was, and he's going to screw that up.

You're going to have to have grace there. You're going to have to have grace when you guys have a trip planned for a year, and suddenly a surgery pops up and it just devastates you. You're just going to have to learn to live lives of grace. And as Chris said, what's going to happen on the back end of this, the meaning that you and your family are going to be able to make. You're going to raise that five-year-old neurotypical boy to be an empathetic man of compassion. He will change his communities. He will change his neighborhoods.

He will be an extraordinary husband, an extraordinary father, because he knows how to put other people's glasses on, right? He's able to get in someone else's heart and mind and understand that his experiences aren't the only experience and that sometimes the greatest thing you can do for one another is to serve each other. You're in it now, Victoria. It's not going to be easy.

It's going to be long, and we love you. And wow, what a blessing you are to those two little boys. Yeah, don't do it alone. Lean on each other, and you and your husband support each other. Use your words. Talk about how you feel and get him some men around him that he can talk to as well.

Life is not meant to be done alone. Hang in there, girl. You're doing good things. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney here with my co-host and good friend Chris Hogan. We are taking your calls about life and money. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Yep. Now, John, hold on. Before we get back to the phone, I need to tell people we have some shows. We do have some shows. We do have shows. Like, we didn't just hijack Dave Ramsey's show. We have our own. That's right.

And so I want to let you know John's got a show, The Dr. John Deloney Show. New episodes are dropping every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on YouTube. And you can find it anywhere that you listen to podcasts. John's getting real on life, relationships, and mental challenges, and just helping people get the tools they need. So you can cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression, and disconnection, and really start to plug in and truly get focused. Now, you finally, finally have something that you can let the people buy. That's right. Okay?

And I've been telling you. I've said, John, listen, I think you've got a couple of little wisdoms in you. You need to let them out. You need to write them down. And lo and behold, you did it. Lo and behold. What do you have there? I've got this new

new quick read it's only about 80 pages you can read it in a couple hours you you could get this done in a week chris if you really put your heart and mind to it you can do it it's called redefining anxiety listen chris here rookie hand it here i'm see you're still new as you talk about it you got to show the people so they can see it. There you go. Redefining anxiety. Now, what were you saying? I was saying I'm sick of people being told that anxiety is going to be forever,

that it's the way they were wired, it's the way they're a broken machine. I'm sick of it. So we put together this. It's a laser beam, man. It's short. There's no fluff. And if you have followed me at all, I talk too too much i'm full of a lot of fluff sometimes but this gets right to the point it is selling more than i could have ever dreamed it has um folks are picking it up and i'm grateful for it

but pick it up it's 10 bucks you can buy it as a part of the giant ramsey book sale hey listen to this i'm on page 49 let your your emotions, anger, anxiety, sadness inform you, but don't let them rule you. I like that. So looking at this and I have, John's given me a copy. He even signed it. He charged me $20 for it, but it's fine. But I want you to grab a copy of this because not only will this help you in your journey, because at some point we're all going to hit anxiety, but here's the other thing. You know of somebody that's in the middle of it. And what better way to have some tools to be able to help them walk through this process?

And so, again, great opportunity. Grab John's book, 80-page quick read. You can find it at johndeloney.com and at our bookstore. But also, he's got his show. If you've got a question, and I know a lot of times some people are fine to call in, others would prefer to email, you can do that. You can email him at AskJohn at RamseySolutions.com, or you can call him 844-693-3291.

All right, let's go to the phones. Let's get a money question in here so Chris is not so bored. Let's go to Cassandra in Flint, Michigan. Cassandra, how are we doing? Good. How are you guys? Outstanding. How can we help?

I have a question. I know this is usually a no. Uh-oh. Cassandra, are you really calling in with you know the answer, but you're going to ask me anyway? I know, but I'm just hoping. Uh-oh. Listen now. Yes, ma'am.

Uh-oh. She got the mama voice on me. Yes, she did. She said, listen now. All right. Yes, ma'am. Go right ahead. Okay.

We started the Dave Ramsey program in 2016, December. Yes, ma'am. And we paid all our debt off in 15 months, and then we paid our house. Thank you. Yes. We paid our house off just this past May of 2020. Congratulations. Way to go.

In the middle of a pandemic, you all paid off your house. We did. That's amazing. And we have three children. Yes, ma'am. Yep, three children. One was finishing up her nursing degree during all this, and we were helping her pay for that because she had taken out student loans. We didn't

want her to take out any more. Okay. And then my son started 2019 and fall nursing program as well. So we're cash flowing him while we're paying off the house as well. Okay. And I have my third child graduating this coming spring, and she will be in college, all going to community colleges, so we're not going to big universities. Yes, ma'am. And we're trying to cash flow all this on top of, say, for a couple cars, because both our cars have almost 200,000 miles on them, on top of windows for our house that we're trying to save for. So I'm just wondering if, in this circumstance, we could take not all of it, but some of it out of our retirement.

We have $1.7 million in there. Okay. With this CARES Act and take advantage of a little bit of that money to help us so we don't feel so strapped still. Okay. What's your household income right now? $160,000. Okay. You don't have a mortgage payment, and you're cash flowing community college,

and you're saying you're trying to save up for a couple of cars. Why can't you do that with your money that you're making, the $160,000? We are. Yeah. You know, we just feel like we're still very strapped okay well i understand have these kids heard of this word i'm about to don't say it chris don't say it it's called work yes do they all work okay i guess i didn't mention that they pay for their books for college we're just paying for the classes they pay for all their books and they are working okay so it sounds like you're going to have to make some

decisions about priorities while you're in the middle of this season and you may have to yeah you may have to say we're going to get windows in two years instead of 18 months yeah you're going to have to pick and choose you're trying to do it all let me answer cassandra you know the answer that is no i don't want you pulling money out of your 401k hey hold on i want to answer a money question cassandra no no because here's the thing you're everyday millionaires you guys have a strong income i'm so proud of you for what you've done i'm so proud that you paid off your house in the middle of this pandemic that you've been able to support your kids. I mean, you're doing a great job.

What I don't want you to do is go backwards. And I agree with what John is saying. You just need to make some priorities. Windows may have to wait until 2024. Let's get these kids. But here's the other thing. Scholarships, grants, let's get these kids. They sound like they're hyper-intelligent, so they might qualify if they were to look and to attempt that.

But, no, I don't want you to pull money out of your 401K. You guys are everyday millionaires. Congratulations. Love it. You can cash flow this. And as far as the cars, these kids, they can work another job. That they're paying for their books is great. I like that.

Let's have them chip in a little bit more. They sound like able-bodied people. Their mom and dad's been working all their lives. Let's let them get a dose of reality. Because here's the deal. At some point, they've got to get off the gravy train. Right? There's an exit there.

There's an exit ramp. It's called adulthood. And they need to go on, get on there, and go on down that ramp. Well, here's what I've heard parents starting to mention now. They paid for kid number one's college they mortgaged their souls to get that one through the second kid they said hey we're not gonna be able to go to that school we're gonna go to this school then a pandemic hits then they've got these priorities and dreams and then they've got this mom and dad guilt this well we did it for suzy and we did it for billy so we have

to figure out a way to sacrifice to change to dip into our retirement so that little timmy gets the same thing yep and a great lesson you can teach your kids is that life's not fair that's right that the world shifts underneath us and sometimes we have plans we've got dreams we have them all mapped out and then a pandemic hits then dad loses his job then college tuition triples in the matter of a few years whatever the thing is right and it's about being honest and upfront and open and transparent with your kids not doing something and it gosh if everyone ran their home like cassandra did we'd have no problems in the world no no they're rock

stars they're they're absolute rock stars right what you're you're right it's that guilt she's feeling it's that mom and dad guilt. I've got to figure out how to do this. That's right. And I would much rather you transfer some of that guilt from guilt to responsibility to these young people and let them work more and say, hey, next semester you need to have $10,000 saved up. Not only your books, but $10,000 towards your tuition. And so if each one of them is able to do that, now you've just relieved yourself. And again, you're helping them grow and helping them to feel that.

So, Cassandra, you guys, $160,000 a year, you got strong income. You can help the kids a little bit. Let them help themselves. Replace your cars and tell the windows they got to wait until 2024. You're going to do this, girl, and leave that money alone. You're an everyday millionaire. I want you to get ready to enjoy and travel you can take me with you and john we'll put john in the trunk nope just chris cassandra i like nashville this is the dave ramsey show We'll be right back. this is the Dave Ramsey show

I'm John Deloney here with my co-host and good friend Chris Hogan Chris Hogan at ChrisHogan360.com the host and owner operator of the Chris Hogan Show, where he talks with everyday millionaires, talks with people on how to grow their wealth, how to make good decisions with money, how to make good decisions together with their families, and to grow it.

Chris, how's your show doing, my man? Man, we are having a lot of fun, John. I tell you, one of my favorite segments that we do, we do it's panicked or pumped. And what people do is write in and talk to me about what they're panicked about. It could be a debt. It could be that they feel like they're behind or just financial. But they also tell me what they're pumped about. So I take a panicked email and a pumped email, and people tell me what they're excited about.

Because I tell them, listen, life's not meant to be done alone so when you hit a milestone uh you paid off all your debt or you paid off your car write in and tell us about so we can celebrate you and so that's a lot of fun i've made that adjustment on my show i i started shows with things that annoyed me just trying to be cute and cynical and goofy and And then I realized, man, I'm just contributing to more negative nonsense out in the world. And I love that you're not only asking for what are people panicked about, but you're also taking a moment to say, I'm going to inject some joy out into the world somewhere. We have to, man. I mean, you handle a lot of tough stuff.

We were talking about it at the break. Heavy stuff. Some stuff that people it at the break. Heavy stuff. Right. Some stuff that people may have packed around for years. Yep. And they're going, you know, I like your bricks and the backpack analogy. John has a talk where he talks about these things that we can pack around in life, and they end up slowing you down and weighing you down, and you're not even aware of it.

But people are unpacking that stuff with you. That can be heavy. Yep. And it's serious, too. And so, you know, the fact that you're trying to help them walk through that and be real with it is necessary right now. But we're also taking calls, and if your husband's a good guy, shoot me an email, let me know.

You need some positives. We're putting some positives out there. If you remember a good elementary school teacher, let's give her a shout-out. We're going to put Joy out. I love the Panicked and that's fantastic kelly should be emailing you about me telling you how nice and kind and sweet i am that's probably never gonna happen never gonna happen let's go to drew in los angeles california i tried brother drew how are we doing i'm doing good chris john how are How are you guys? Outstanding. Outstanding. How can we help, man?

So I've been a fan for about two years. I've tried to live by the baby steps and everything. And about a little over a year ago, I got married. And I brought my then-fiancée in. I listened to Dave Ramsey almost to the point where she hates it. That's a good way to start a marriage. Well done, Drew. I'm making great impressions. But I, so once we got married, I said, okay, let's combine everything. So,

you know, I thought, you know, we were going to combine bank accounts, which we did essentially, but then the debt that she brought with her that then became ours, I said, let's combine that so we can pay it off together. Well, now she feels like she just needs to pay it herself as a punishment for herself for being so crazy or dumb with money before we got married. And I told her it doesn't matter. I just want to get rid of it. Just like in the baby steps.

And she says, no, I will deal with it because it was my mistake. Oh, I got you. How can I get her to break this mentality and just know that it's not a handout for me. It's her husband taking care of what we need to take care of. Right, right. How much debt is it, Drew that that she has before you all got married about 15 000 okay is that what kind of debt is that um student loan credit card okay and that's it okay yeah she she's still trying to adjust to the married way of thinking um and i

think it's that mindset and it will be you repeating yourself over and over again and I loved listening to you because you even were using the correct pronouns you were saying her and my then you were saying our and it's ours and I think with this thing

it's not necessarily that you are trying to be the knight in shining armor to save the day it's a matter that you guys are being team members, locking arms, and attacking this threat to your financial future. And so in the way that you're addressing it, I would say this. We're going to Jedi mind trick her, Drew. Here's how we're going to do it. You down with Star Wars?

You know about that? Oh, absolutely. Okay, Jedi mind trick. Here's the deal. We're not going to just talk about the debt. What I want you to do is talk about your dreams. What are the things you all want to go do together? What are the things that make her excited?

Is it about having a family one day? Is it traveling? I want you to know her heart like the back of your hand. And then what I want you to do is move this and say, you know what? This is my heart. This is your heart. This is what you want to do. Look at what's standing in our way. And it's the debt. It's's you all working as a team it's going to get you to that dream faster

hey drew are you a problem solver yeah i'm actually an engineer oh yeah man i tell you what i do all day if this doesn't work out for me i'm gonna start one of those palm reading shows, man. Like Miss Cleo. Yeah, Miss Cleo. All right, Drew, not to typecast you, but I could tell in the one minute you told me what was going on in your heart and mind in marriage. You are somebody that when your wife is struggling, you have some rational, clear, easy answers, and you love giving them to her because you love her, and you want to solve that problem in a quick and efficient way. And one thing that I often tell guys, especially engineers, especially engineers with great hearts, is that your wife is not a problem to solve.

She's not a broken engine, and she's not a problem to solve, she's not a broken engine, and she's not a puzzle to solve. She's a person to be with. So here's your homework assignment for the next 30 days. You ready? I'm ready. Whenever she's struggling, whenever she comes home from work, whenever she mentions something about her quote-unquote stupid or dumb decisions,

I don't want you to solve that problem. I don't want you to give her advice. I don't want you to give her wisdom. I want you to look her in her eyes, and I want you to say, that sucks. Thank you for sharing that with me. And just let, listen, you're laughing because you know, just let the pause sit there. And she may pass out because she's used to you giving her info.

Drew is going to bite his tongue trying to not say the rest of the stuff that he wants to say. Just swallow the blood from the tongue that you bit. Just hang into it. And just say that. No, you're right it's hard oh it's so hard drew but here's here's the thing i guarantee you your wife's not dumb she's brilliant she's smart she's probably hilarious it takes a hilarious smart person to marry an engineer right that's absolutely true yeah and listen she probably doesn't need

your advice on everything what she needs and here's what I'm getting at. For her to finally own that she's not an idiot, she's got to have a safe place to land. And right now she's got an informant. She's got basically a second dad, somebody who's giving her info all of the time. And that's not saying that you're a bad guy. In fact, I think the exact opposite. I think you love her deeply, and you're trying to figure out ways. She needs a safe place to land.

And she's going to land in a safe place when she feels like she can just be fully herself and not live out of these dumb, crazy things. And again, they're not dumb and crazy. She made money mistakes before she knew better. That's right. Right? And that's the old Maya Angelou quote. And again, they're not dumb and crazy. She made money mistakes before she knew better. That's right. Right? And that's the old Maya. We've all been there.

The old Maya Angelou quote. And here's the thing. Not only is this going to be helpful for Drew now, but in the future, because Drew didn't marry a child to raise. Nope. He married a teammate. That's right. And so he needs that teammate to reach their full potential.

That's right. So she can be there to support him. And so this is a two-way street. Yes. so she can be there to support him. And so this is a two-way street. But I like what you're saying about asking, acknowledging, and listening without trying to solve. And occasionally I'll ask my wife. When I can feel that tension and that pause, I'll say, Are you asking me for my insight here? Do I have your permission to give you advice?

You're asking for permission. Yeah. What does she say most of the time? Most of the time she'll say, I'm good, brother. Thanks, man. I'm good. I don't need your insight. I just need you.

I want you to help all those men out here. So we're supposed to acknowledge that it was hard when you hear something, say that must be tough. What do we do with all the other words and advice that we have? That's what's helpful in that moment if we're not supposed to talk. What do we do with it, John? Tell me. We breathe it out.

Breathe them out your nose. That's right. I want to thank producer James Child and associate producer Kelly Daniel. I want to thank all the guys back there, all the engineers. I'm breathing out my words. Keep going. I can smell those words. I want to thank you so much for joining us.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. This is Kelly, associate producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.