The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Start an Encore Career? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 1, 2020

Ken Coleman, Career, Debt, Insurance Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Joining me this hour, Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, Ramsey personality, and number one best-selling author of the book, The Proximity Principle, which is selling like hotcakes right now because people need jobs. That and it's $10 at KenColeman.com. That's cheaper than Amazon.

And DaveRamsey.com, too. Well, that's true. Which is also cheaper than Amazon. That's true. All because of DaveRamsey.com, right? No, I don't mean that. It's fun when we can beat Jeff Bezos on pricing, though. It doesn't happen very often.

Yeah, that's true. So, you know. And the e-book's $8, DaveRamsey.com, KenColeman.com, and the audiobook, $3.99. These are incredible prices, and it's the handbook on how to move up. How to get the job. Yeah, whether you're a starter, career starter, a career switcher, or a career advancer, the proximity principle is the principle for success and advancement.

Andrew is going to start us off this hour with a question for Ken from Colorado. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks. Hi, Ken. I've spent more than a decade in all my career in journalism. And at the New Year, my most recent job in journalism was covering the real estate market here in Denver.

And at the New Year, I decided to take a leap, take a risk, and move kind of into the other side of the story. And I met a startup founder. It's a really interesting firm and something I still believe in. And I will press and say probably the biggest issue that we had was we never actually signed a formal contract. But this is the issue that I have right now. I'm wondering, I struck a deal with the founder to do content marketing and make $48,000. And I said, I'm going to get my real estate license also. So I thought it was kind of the perfect opportunity since real estate, you know, it can take a few months to land your first deal and kind of get into it. It was an easy way for me to kind of take a part-time job with the

firm and kind of be ingrained in it, make a salary, and then also learn real estate. So as you can imagine, it's still a great market here, but it has slowed down recently. And at the quarter, the founder is feeling crunched for money. And as I said, we didn't have a agreement. So the question I have, I'm not sure about what was presented to me and what I should do, but to continue paying me this content marketing salary that I have at $48,000, she would want me to guarantee at least $3.5 million in real estate deals. And if not, I would owe a certain amount. It's worked out. Let's say if I sold nothing, I would have to potentially owe $23,000 to the firm at the end of the year.

And so when you say it out loud, it sounds stupid. So I wanted to run it by and just see if the risk just kind of irked me and my wife out. Oh, it's not even the risk issue. It's the disrespect to your intelligence and just the humanness of that statement is ridiculous. I mean, I think it's almost to the point, Dave, where it's like she might be trying to push him out by throwing this crazy deal at him and just get you to leave without her having the guts to say, times are tough. I've got to lay you off. I can't pay you $48.

You shouldn't even be considering this this is such a red flag i'd be out the door as soon as i could find something here's the thing there's only downside there's no upside none she doesn't believe in them there's no ladder because if there was a you know the yeah i might consider that that deal if i make uh if I bring in $12 million, though, I want to make seven times what I was going to make, you know, that kind of thing. Right. And that's not on the table. Your best-case scenario is you break even. Right, because it would be prorated if I didn't hit that $3.5 million or so. But if you got $7 million, you get nothing more.

Correct. I mean, if I, yeah. You got no points on this thing. So, yeah, I think that your time with this person has come to an end. That's just crazy. That's crazy land. If I'm an employer, it is my job to hire you and say, now, if you want to keep your job and have me keep paying you, I have to see this level of work and this level of results.

You're a content marketer, so I need that content to create this level of results. You're a content marketer, so I need that content to create this level of results. I need to get this many leads in or this many closed deals in or whatever in order to keep your job. That's a reasonable part of your type of a position. But you have to pay back your salary or your income if you don't. No, that's her risk that she's supposed to take. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Well, luckily we have an emergency fund, and I still have a real estate license, so I can still sell and I'll probably try to do that elsewhere. And, Andrew, you're clear. You're clear on what you want to do, and this is one of those great moments in life. It's unfortunate. It feels weird, and it should, but you're going to look back on this moment as a wonderful kick out of the nest and and take it and run man just by the way have you figured

out that if you can generate three and a half million dollars worth of content for your deals for yourself that you make a lot more right yeah well that yeah that that could be or if i just you know went all in on real estate right no you're all in on real estate. Well, no, you're all in on real estate, and you're your own content marketer, dude. Oh, sure. Okay, I see what you're saying. If you can generate $3.5 million worth of deals for yourself, you make a whole heck of a lot more than $48,000. Bet on yourself. Definitely.

Yeah, if you have the ability to do this, I mean, I'm not going to take a $23,000 loss with a $48,000 upside. Go do it for yourself. You've got a license. Yeah. And that sets you up. Good. Yes, gracious. The nerve of some people.

It's an insult. It's almost like she didn't have the guts to say, I can't pay you $48,000. It may be, but it can be she's just a neophyte. She's just a beginner, and she hadn't thought it through. You know, she's trying to figure it through. Okay. That's very kind. Real estate people are, I grew up in that world i am that world and we are we would put i would put

the receptionist on straight commission if i could figure out well that's true i've heard you say that a million times i would i love incentivizing that's right and and that's the way this woman's head works but she just didn't think through how stupid and insulting the way she structured this sounds right and so you could go back in and just say well i mean i'll help you with this you can fire me if i don't bring you in three and a half but i'm not going to be paying you anything back this is not a loan it's a job and so uh if that doesn't work then it's time to walk and move on but i think that's probably where it came from is she's just not a she probably hasn't designed a lot of comp plans that's probably where it came from is she's just not a – she probably hasn't designed a lot of comp plans. She's probably just a real estate agent.

That's fair. And doesn't know what the flip she's doing and just really stepped in it up to her knees here, though, by doing this. But that's what it sounds like to me. Because, I mean, we have so many comp plans. And Ramsey, our CFO jokes, and he goes, I used to work at places that was easier to work at because they had debt and all this other complication.

We don't have any debt, and we got cash laying around here. But we overcomplicate because it seems like everybody in this place has some kind of an incentive built into their comp plan. And because I think that same way, but obviously we try to think and put the other person's shoes on. Well, we have a comp committee that talks about it, Smart leaders, you know, they think through this stuff. Yeah, exactly. Ken Coleman joining me this hour on the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities, especially the frontline workers who provide resources and care for those most in need. To help, LinkedIn is offering free job posts for healthcare and essential service organizations

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LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Well, it's time. It's time for the Ramsey Summer Cash Giveaway. Our Ramsey Summer Cash Giveaway. Our Ramsey Summer Cash Giveaway is here. You can win cash to fund some of your summer plans or help you reach the next baby step. We're giving away $500 every week to three lucky winners this May, plus a grand prize of $3,000.

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You can get all of that at DaveRamsey.com. Minnesota is next. Jim's calling. Hey, Jim, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. Honored to talk to both of you. You too, sir.

How can we help? So I have a rental property that I am selling here, and I have another. So I'm selling it for about $120,000 and that'll pay that off and give another $30,000 but you know that's the equity that I had in it and one other rental that's worth about $100,000 that I owe $40,000, and then I have my house, which is about 260 left on it. I am doing the 15% and done with all my debt, and I just didn't know if the right move was to throw that on the house, the main residence, or if I should kind of basically, if I put it on the other one, I would, you know, within a month or two here,

I would open up that cash flow for, you know, the only thing left would be the house. Generally, if they're about the same, you know, same range on debt, I would say pay off your home first. But your home is way larger, and you can just knock this little rental out, and it opens up the cash flow, and that's one less debt. We're down to one debt, and we just completely concentrate on your mortgage. I would throw it at the rental. Okay. Easy enough?

That's what I was thinking. I was going to think of it, but it doesn't fully fall into the baby step the way it... Well, it's not the debt snowball, but when we get to baby step six, again, we don't always follow exactly the debt snowball. We do some risk management stuff there too so if you owed 175 000 on your house and um owed 150 000 on a rental i'd probably put it on your house okay but it's you know because they would be fairly close you see what i'm saying but the fact that we can knock this rental out it's a little dinky debt and you

knock it out with this 30 000 plus 10 and you're done with it makes a lot of sense jeff's in idaho hey jeff your question for ken hey good afternoon first of all dave i want to say thank you for your what you do because during this pandemic we're not panicking we're you know we're comfortable we've got money set aside we've got our bills paid and you, you know, even though my wife's been furloughed, we're not panicking and having to change the budget a little bit, but because of what you teach and we're in good shape and we appreciate that. So keep doing what you're doing on that. We appreciate you, Hero. Well done. So here's my question for Ken. So I got about 10 more years that I want to continue to do in my job. I'm back in school. In fact, I'm getting ready to get my associate's degree here next month,

and I'm going to continue on to get my bachelor's in communication. I'd love to do voiceover work in my Twilight career, something I've always been interested in. Ken, how soon is too soon to start doing work and getting involved in that? If I know I can't kind of dedicate myself, if you will, air quotes, full-time into doing that work. It's not too soon. I'd start tonight. I'd start tonight by doing research of other voice artists and people that are doing voiceover work.

Look at their websites. It's very easy to Google this and see people that have got their own websites up and listening and paying attention to their samples. If they have YouTube channels where they're showing you the behind the scenes and how they record, I'd become a student right now because you've got 10 years left and you can start learning about the business now. And I would tell you pretty quickly, once you kind of watch, you know, you could presumably spend five to ten hours researching and paying attention to the people that are doing it really well and winning online. Okay. And what I mean by that is listening to them.

Listen to how they do a country music liner on a station. Listen to how they do a car commercial. Listen to all the different types of work they do. And then what I want you to do is take the same script, type it out while you're listening or create a script or watch a local TV ad and take the script and then you do a voiceover and just do it on your computer into the microphone. This is not for the world to consume. This is for you to begin to practice. In my book, The Proximity Principle, we call this a place to practice. This is low risk and you're just doing things that you're seeing other people do. Then the next step is you can begin to put yourself out there after you've got some real samples. And then you can say to local businesses or a church that's doing a video or something like

this, hey, I just want to do the voiceover work for you. I'm going to be doing it full time eventually. I'm doing it part time now. I'll do it for free. And you just get a couple of real clients that you do real work. And again, now you're building a reputation and a real portfolio of work. You create a website. You're out on social media putting your work out. And this becomes a thing that you're doing on the side. And you will be surprised at how quickly you will get paid work to do voiceover work. And I would go to some of the gatherings of these folks.

Get online. Be listening to podcasts in this area. Really devote yourself to learning about it and then begin to do it starting now. There's no reason to wait 10 years because this is something you can start now. And you might be surprised at how much money you're making in the next two to three years just doing voiceover work in the mornings and in the evenings and that's when you're going to do most of it anyway yeah even if it became a full-time gig the people that do it for a living um it's it's a very much by the

job it's a it's a gig economy it's based on gigs it's not there i don't know of 10 people in america that i that i personally know that have full-time jobs doing voiceover. They all have developed great careers working for multiple people selling their voice and the ability to voice stuff over. And most of them, over time, develop a niche area. They're the person that reads an audio book. That's one area. That's different than the guy who does monster truck commercials. It's a different kind of voice work.

So you just start to decide what type of stuff you want your brand to be over. And in the radio business, Zach Bennett in here on our board today, our associate producer, knows a ton of people that do voice work. I know a ton of people that do voice work. And they work for radio stations. They work for ad agencies. They work for individual companies. Some of the voices become associated with a certain company, uh, over time, those kinds of things, but it's almost always gig based. It is not, um, a salary based thing. So you can, you can start tomorrow, uh uh with practicing and researching like ken's talking about and i think it's a great thing i think you ought to go do it as fast as you possibly can i

agree our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they remake your window blinds for free free samples free shipping new promos all the time use Use the promo code Ramsey. Question comes from Renee in Kansas. I just recently inherited a traditional IRA from my grandmother. Should I pay off all my debt with it? I have about $13,000 in debt and the IRA would cover it, but I don't want to take the tax hit. If I don't pay off my debt with it, should I convert it to a Roth IRA? Under the new laws, you're going to take the tax hit fairly quickly anyway, Renee,

so I would go ahead and cash it out, pay the taxes, and pay off your debt with what is remaining after you do that. Good question. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders make your life easier with FreshBooks. Whether you're starting a business or you've been at it a long time, FreshBooks is one of the smartest decisions you'll make this year. FreshBooks is an accounting software designed for people like you that lets you do the things like automate your invoicing and your online payments.

So you get more time to work on your business. Try FreshBooks for 30 days free at FreshBooks.com slash Dave Ramsey. okay gilman i gotta tell you looking out in the lobby outside of our studio and seeing human beings is an awesome thing yes it's beautiful yeah for those of you don't know across america we have a big beautiful lobby with a whole timeline all these things that people that do ramsey stuff experience when they come visit so we always or we used to always have uh you know 100 200 people 50 people at a minimum standing around watching the show when you're doing your show or i'm doing mine and hanging out and today it's a bunch of our team members out here gathered uh we're at a uh about 60 or 70 percent of our folks are here uh voluntarily this week and we go back to work

next week in tennessee we're allowed to so uh everybody's here it's it's a beautiful day in tennessee and everybody is gathered in the lobby because on the debt free stage and we thought it was apropos the very first back on the debt free stage because nobody's been on that since the covet shutdown right because nobody's been in the building but the first ones back should be ramsey team members so nick and jess are with us uh on the stage welcome guys you get to do your debt-free scream. Yeah, man. We're pumped.

Excited. With your whole team here. I love it. Very, very cool. Now, Jess is a senior assistant to the executive marketing director. My God, what a title. So how long have you been with us? Since August.

Okay. The senior assistant to executive marketing director of financial patient you work for trey yes i do oh my god i'm so sorry okay why don't we just say you help trey or you do all the actual work and trey gets the credit okay there it is that's a better title i like that one all right cool so for nine months you've been with us, and you guys have been on the debt-free journey. How much have you paid off? We paid off $45,000. Very good. Good for you guys.

Well done. And how long did that take? Twelve years, not months. Wow. Okay. And I'm not going to ask your income because you work here, and so we have a tradition we don't do that because we don't tell everybody that works here what everybody else's income is that'd be wrong uh but tell us your story what happened 45 000 and what 12 years yeah it took 12 years because um it took us

a long time that much time to get our to get our marriage right first. We have been married almost 13 years, 13 years this month. And it took us that long to battle through personal issues that were standing in the way of our financial success. All about that mindset. Yeah, it is. It's a big deal. And so I know a little bit about your story. And so there's been some addiction issues in the household, and you had to battle through those.

And tell me how that whole process worked with the money and then how you did overcome it. Because it's a great story. You guys are heroes. Well, thank you. It was definitely hard. And on my part, there was a lot of anger and bitterness and resentment toward him. And I took that as a green light to get credit cards and pay for things that we didn't need because I felt entitled to that. I'll show you.

Right. Because I was so angry. Yeah, she did.'ll show you. Right. Because I was so angry. Yeah, she did. Revenge spending. Right. And it ended up kicking myself, you know, because that's debt that we both took on. It was just so stupid. Yeah.

But in 2017, we had just reached our breaking point. And I was ready to walk. I thought we were done. Mm-hmm. But God. And we got in some intense marriage counseling cool and october 2017 we reconciled and began again got on the same page it was like gasoline on our debt all of it came together and then especially once i started working here we had two incomes yeah and finally

well and you have incredible peer pressure yes yeah i mean we don't get up in your business but everybody in the building is excited about this and doing it and you feel weird if you're not right for sure yeah for sure and you work for the marketing director for financial peace university for god's sake yeah you don't have a choice yeah yes in that sense i mean uh the pressure the good pressure is all around you so go back a minute to the um i mean because 2017 so that's three years ago so three of the 12 years have been the uptick the positive the the curve turns up on the money stuff and on the marriage stuff. What was the breakthroughs when you got in the intensive marriage counseling? What was the thing that,

that, uh, the switch that flipped for each of you? I would say for me, it was getting out of my own way. Um, I finally, I finally had a change in my mindset that allowed me to surrender control to God instead of trying to make things work on this one income that by itself was not enough. And once I finally learned to let go of that control and change my really narrow way of thinking and escape from what was kind of miserable comfort, familiarity. It stinks, but it's mine. Yeah, exactly. And once I was able to escape out of that, and at least for me, for my part, once I was able to do that, it really helped me stay focused on

long-term goals. There's this paradox when you're dealing with an addiction that there's a sense of control while you're out of control. And is that what you're trying to describe? It's an attempt to control things that are beyond your control. Exactly. They've spiraled so far out of control that you're grasping here and there to try to regain some kind of semblance of normalcy. Yeah. But it's not possible. So you've been clean three years? Yes. Very good. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. Thank you. That's hard work, man. Yeah. Very well done. Thank you. Very well done. That's a serious breakthrough. And then, of course, that opens the door for the marriage to heal,

which then opens the door for the finances to heal. Did I miss that, or is that the right order? Yes. Perfect. Yep. Right on. All right. Wow.

So we get this call all the time. 30 years I've been doing this show. My husband, my wife is addicted to fill in the blank dot, dot, dot. What would each of you tell them if they're listening right now? Because they are. You feel hopeless. You feel like there's no end in sight to what you're going through. You're miserable. You feel broken. But when you allow yourself to be broken, you can be surrendered. Surrender that. Surrender it to God. Allow him to step in and take that for you. You don't have to white-knuckle it. You don't have to carry that.

Give it to God. Ask for his help, and he will help you. Yeah. And I would say, at least for my part, I mean, definitely want to echo what you're saying, Jess, that it's a God thing. And for those who may be facing something like I did, don't live in fear and don't feel like you have to go through that kind of thing alone because there are people that God, I know God put people in my path. Yeah.

Almost nobody gets out by themselves. It's not, it's, it's, it's very unlikely that you can do this alone. So don't live in fear and don't live in shame, but, um,

reach out for, for for help i'm so proud of y'all thank you so proud you're on our team so part of your proud part proud you're part of this family you're an incredible couple i was very brave to come on the air and do that when not only your whole team standing here but uh 18 million or so folks listening in so very very cool so the truth is you really paid off the 4545,000, not in 12 years, but in about three or less. Pretty much. Because you really didn't make any stinking progress on it during the first part, right? Right.

You went back and forth and yo-yoed and revenge spend and addiction spending. And all those different things are all tied into this. And then all of a sudden you reached the end of your own. You came to your own and you stepped into, you knelt down and said, God, you've got to take this. I can't. And it turned it around. Preach it.

I like it. Well done. Very well done. All right, guys. Nick and Jess, right here from Ramsey Solutions. Jess being on the team. $45,000 paid off, and a life and a marriage, lives and marriage transformed. Four good-looking boys there.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Woo-hoo! Love it! Yeah! folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but i'm not a fan of traditional belts they never fit right and they're uncomfortable grip Grip 6 belts are unique.

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Then all your ways will be sure. Katrina Fake says, so often people are working hard at the wrong thing. Working on the right thing is probably more important than working hard. No question about it. Believe it or not, there's an actual holiday called National Life Insurance Day. Ew, gross. And it's tomorrow, May the 2nd. So when you're thinking about it, because tomorrow when you wake up, you go,

it's National Life Insurance Day. There's a day for everything. Oh, God. You'll be thinking about your own need for life insurance. You know I recommend term life insurance, not whole life insurance, not cash value insurance. And our team built a tool to help you figure out how much life insurance you actually need. It's part of the five-minute coverage checkup. And it's a personalized list, and it'll tell you what to do exactly.

Go to DaveRamsey.com and text the word CHECKUP to 33789 to get life insurance and all the other coverages that you need. And, of course, Zander Insurance can help you with that. But text the word CHECKUP to 33789, and we will send you the coverage on that. Ken, it strikes me today, we had two very interesting debt-free screams during the three-hour period that you and I have been on the air today. One was a nurse and a trim carpenter who worked so many hours, and he worked 57 days, I think he said straight, that their income this year was $300,000. They paid off a $293,000 house in 19 months, which is worth $880,000. They subcontracted it around the building business and built it out.

So they're worth over a million dollars, and they are 32 years old. And, you know, we see the stuff all the time that the stuff we teach is simple the stuff we teach doesn't work for anybody but middle class if you want to get sophisticated with your investing don't follow ramsey stuff and you know what that could be true i'm worth several hundred million dollars not being sophisticated um that couple at 32 years old is worth a million dollars i'm not sure i want to be that known as the sophisticated people who confuse everybody and people do nothing as a result so i'm kind of if i can be the guy if you can be the guy that helps the trim carpenter and the nurse helps the couple who um he's struggling with an addiction and so she does

revenge spending in both cases there was extreme transformation in their lives before the money stuff was fixed and you see that with career all the time the career stuff problems are not are oftentimes not the problem. It's often the other stuff. But when you get your stuff together and you get down on your knees before God and you say, God, I'm I can't do this. You're in charge. The transformation can begin at that point. That's right. The single thing that is glaring in both stories is that both couples got clear on what needed to happen. This couple on our team, they got clear that we need to heal our marriage or it's over. The nurse and the trim carpenter, you know what? We need to get out of debt. We want to live like nobody else. I don't want to pay any of this interest.

That's it. He said, yeah. Yeah, and so tremendous clarity brings unity. You know, it was when that both couples got clear on an objective, a mission, a crusade is the word that you use all the time in our company. I love that word. We're crusaders at Ramsey Solutions. And when you can get clear on the mission, and then unity comes, and then it changes everything. Transformation happens when it's not me, it's us, and it's bigger than us.

That's powerful stuff, whether it's in your career that you don't want to wake up when you're 65 and be full of regrets. You want to be 65 and reminisce. When you want to get up on a Monday morning and feel like the amount of time and effort you're going to put in that day and the rest of the week is going to go towards something that you believe deeply in, it's going to create a result that connects to you. Or you just want to get out of debt and live like no one else so that you can give and change people's lives through the generosity that is in everyone's heart, but many people can't act on it the way they want to. Whatever it is, it is clarity that really leads to transformation. The brain is a powerful machine, Dave, when it's focused on the right thing. I love the scripture verse we shared today. It was all about your eyes forward and knowing your path. And the baby steps are a clear path that people can say, if I take this step and then this step and then this step, I can get where I want to go.

I think that's what's so beautiful about what we get to do here at Ramsey Solutions. You're right. It's not fancy. I think if we get to the end of our careers and the only thing that we taught someone to do was to surrender so that they can engage in transformation. That couple with their marriage, he said they surrendered to God. Surrendered his addiction. She surrendered her anger towards his behavior. The trim carpenter surrendered 57 days of his life.

They submitted. No one submits to anything. No one submits to anything. No one surrenders to anything. Yeah, it's not cool. And it's a spiritual disease. It is. To not be able to surrender. And so if we can be known as the people that led someone to surrender around here

and therefore led them into real transformation and therefore lead them to success. I'll take that over being sophisticated any day. That's worthy. I mean, I don't really care if you think I'm sophisticated. Yeah, I don't either. I really don't care what any critic would say about what I teach on the show. I care about the men and women that call in every day, the men and women that come to the live events, that read the books, and they say, hey, you encouraged me. You know, they do the work. You know, I say on my show every day, I don't have the answers.

You do. It's my job to pull them out of you. And to get that end, you know, surrendering your ambition and career, those things are – I've heard you ask them a hundred times on your show, and even when you're on here, you ask them, what are you afraid of? Oh, yeah. Fear, doubt, and pride are the three enemies.

It keeps you from surrendering absolutely i can't surrender if i'm afraid because surrender involves trust yeah my one of my favorite verses in the bible says without faith it is impossible to please god that's the idea of surrender i'm going to trust god and move forward on what i know i can do and trust him to guide my path. I trust if I plant this seed that a crop is going to grow. I'm going to surrender the seed to the soil. I could keep it in storage, but I'm going to plant it. I'm going to surrender it. I'm going to surrender my pride.

I'm going to surrender my fear. I'm going to surrender my need to appear sophisticated or cool to other people or successful to other people i'm going to surrender everybody and that is required to win in these areas and i don't think we i'm afraid i don't talk about that enough but i see that in both of these couples one that was very broken story and recovered and was tender and uh the the wounds are still there they're fresh but there was a healing and then the other one was more like you know they just won the super bowl but both of them involved that idea that they that the they transformed their lives when they surrendered to god when they surrendered to concepts and ideas that they didn't necessarily

know were going to work. They surrendered to the struggle, that there is no transformation without struggle. You know, you think about the caterpillar that struggles mightily in the cocoon to transform. It's literally the word metamorphosis. It's the Greek word for transformation. There's no greatness. There's no breakthrough without struggle. And both of those couples embraced it. They surrendered to, this is going to be hard. We're going to have to go to counseling and heal and admit things that we didn't want to admit and say, I'm going to be accountable and I'm going to make a change. And I hurt you deeply and I broke trust.

And I've got to rebuild that. You know, whatever it is, there is struggle before transformation. You've got to surrender to it. I think you're absolutely right. There's no question. There's no way to transformation without struggle. But we've been told the way to win at our career is be more talented and be more sophisticated. The way to win at money is it needs to be complicated, and you have to be sophisticated.

So once Dave Ramsey gets you out of debt, you don't need him anymore. And that's the big knock, which is the more I read it, the more I think how profoundly stupid that is. Yeah. Well, that's the get-rich-quick scheme. That's the get-your-career-quick. Be great. No, be you.

Yeah. Amen. Ken Coleman, thanks for hanging out. Thanks for having me. Always fun. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com so you can watch from home.