The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Tell My Father-in-Law I Think His Scheme Is Crazy? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Dr. John Delony & George Kamel discuss: How much to spend on an engagement ring, The best way to start investing, Saving for a house vs. investing, Saying no to a bad idea from a father-in-law. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your life, your relationships, everything, all of it. I'm John Deloney, joined here by George Campbell, also my good friend, and we're taking your calls on life and money and whatever's going on.

Tons of bunch of cool folks showed up here in Nashville to hang out and watch. They're all here to see you, John. I'm going to agree to disagree with. They're here to see you, man. They're disappointed Dave's not here. That's true. They're going, well. But also, they got your email you sent out. It said, please come see me. I am desperate for validation. They're going well. But also, they got the email you sent out.

It said, please come see me. I am desperate for validation. Please come see me. 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. The call is free, and the advice is going to be worth about that much. Let's go to Brett in Milwaukee. What is up?

Let's see here. There he is. Hey, what's up, Brett? Howdy, fellas. How you doing? We're rocking on to the break of dawn, my brother. What is up? Let's see here. There he is. Hey, what's up, Brett? Howdy, fellas. How you doing? We're rocking on to the break of dawn, my brother. What's up? All right.

So I got a little bit of a life financial and relationship question. I'm currently in Baby Step 2. Halfway done, I got $25,000 left in student loans. I'm also in a five-year relationship. She's waiting on me to purchase a ring. So my first question is, how much should I spend on a ring? I'm waiting on you.

Why five years, man? College. You wanted to graduate college before getting engaged? Correct. You should have got through college faster. So are you done now? I am, yep.

Graduated in December. So when are you doing this thing? She's probably listening, so I'm going to keep that disclosed. Do it right now. I mean, I'm planning on it. Do it on air right now. She's not here, John. Okay.

Oh, boy. Okay, so you've got $25,000 left. You're wanting to get an engagement ring. Correct. And what's your question? My question is, how much should I spend on an engagement ring? That's part of question one. Okay.

What's the two-parter? The two-parter is I have a very unworthy car, and I went a little heavy on baby step one, and I saved up $5,000 in case it takes a dump. You broke out there. How much do you have saved? $5,000. If you have a car that takes a dump, you've got bigger problems.

You're talking about it just not working anymore? You're not riding a horse, are you? Is it in the shop currently? What stage of life is it at? Well, it's been in the shop in and out, but I have it back now. My transmission is a little sketchy. I can definitely tell it's going out. So I'd say maybe a year left on it. Okay. And so you're trying to figure out the timeline of when do I buy the engagement ring versus get a more reliable car while trying to pay off debt. Correct.

What's your income? I make $67,000 a year. Okay. So how much extra is going towards your student loans right now each month? I'm paying about 80% of my income, so about $3,300 a month towards loans. Wow. So you're living on nothing. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Cool. Wow. So you're living on nothing.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Cool. Well, that makes this a lot sweeter. Are you doing side jobs right now on top of working full-time? I'm trying to get into some woodworking stuff. Cool. Well, I think that could speed up the process to get this ring, and I don't think you need to get crazy with the ring. I think she's going to be happier about you popping the question than she is about, you know, a carat bigger diamond. I mean, a whole carat would be impressive. I will say that, John. But you don't need to get anything wild. Could you spend, you know, $1,200?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I mean, what's she like? Is she going to be upset that there isn't a two-carat diamond involved? No, no, no. She's just going to be happy that you're committing to this relationship in a big way. Absolutely. Yeah, I think you're overthinking it, man.

I think you go get a ring that you can afford and go get engaged, man. And if the car goes kaput, then we stop baby step two temporarily. We're going to save up real fast, do some side jobs, and get a reliable car that we can find on the lot or on Facebook. Brett, I've been poking at you. Can I ask you a serious question? Yep. I'm just pulling together some random data pieces here. Do you look into the future and like to plan for how the future is

gonna gonna gonna roll out yes uh do you worry about how things are gonna happen in the future yep okay um you found somebody that you love and you've waited five years because you have a plan you're gonna do it like this you can do it like this and you're going to do it like that. And now you're already worried about what's going to happen to a car in the future and that your car goes to the bathroom and you're still worried about what's going to happen, right? And so you've got, here's what I want you to do. I want you to not spend your life dress rehearsing tragedy. There's always going to be hard stuff coming up in front of us and we're going to plan the best we can. That's why we do the babysits. That's why we get out of debt and have an emergency fund so that when life happens, we're ready for it. But if you walk through life with your hands up over your face,

like a boxer waiting to get hit, you miss all your life. And so you miss the joy, you miss the laughter, you miss the recklessness and the fun because we're waiting for the next shoe to drop at all times. And make no mistake, the shoes will drop. That's why we set this plan up in the first place. But I want to encourage you to open up your hands a little bit more and release some of this control you're trying to exert over things that are going to happen tomorrow and a year and five years from now, ten years from now. Man, follow the plan and love the people right in front of you. George, we do that a lot, man. Oh yeah. And on top of that, John, this, you know, the idea of weddings and engagement rings, it's gotten out of control.

And I like the process of just going, hey, a couple of dudes, we should talk about this. We can pay off our student loans. We can upgrade in car. And then later on we can get a sweeter ring. Yeah. You can buy a new one. You know, then later on, we can get a sweeter ring. Yeah. You can buy a new one. You know, that was always my plan. I bought the ring I could afford back in the day. And by afford, I mean I put it on a credit card. But the one that had enough credit limit on the card that I could get.

And my plan was always to upgrade it at some point. And we just celebrated our 20th anniversary, my wife and I, and she has no interest in an upgrade. She's like no this is the ring we got and 20 years in you realize how insignificant that little piece of um jewelry is to the overall arc of your relationship yeah there's no you can't measure a marriage by the size of the diamond on there and even if it's not a real diamond right there's a lot of options out there that are way more affordable. You can go on Etsy and find some beautiful engagement rings that are not going to be these high-end three carat, you know, with the whole alphabet there listed for what color the diamond is. I mean, it's just gotten crazy. Here's a

spoiler alert. I forgot my wedding ring today and I took a Sharpie and drew it on here. I thought you got that tattooed. No, actually I didn'tie and drew it on here. I thought you got that tattooed. No, actually I didn't. I drew it on there. Just like once a week, you just get a Sharpie out and redraw it. Not once a week. I just was on the way to work. I was hustling this morning. I had some early stuff this morning, and I forgot it.

At this point, just get it tattooed. I probably will. It's your next one. It's a henna. It's a henna. That's right. Oh, that's good stuff. George, you've been married more recently than me.

Yeah. Was it a dramatic process? No. No, because it wasn't about the ring and the wedding. And we did get a free wedding because we're ballers and won a contest. But that's just, you know, I can't give you advice on that. Yeah, you don't really get an opinion then because your wedding was free. That's true.

But I do have a lot of opinions about how much you should spend on a wedding and it should be as little as possible and more focus on premarital counseling than the wedding day. I like it. There you go. All right. This is the Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225. Give us a shot. We'll be here when you get back. I just saw a study that really made me sad. It showed that families owning life insurance in the U.S. was at its lowest point since the 1970s. After what we've been through the past few years, I'm just lost on how people don't make this more of a priority. How are you going to make sure your family needs are met if something happens to you? This is why getting term life is an absolute necessity. Rates have never been cheaper and the whole process to apply is pretty simple,

with many companies not even requiring an exam anymore. This is why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for almost 25 years. They'll make sure you get the right protection at the lowest cost possible, and they're there for you and your family every day. I challenge all of you to make sure your families are protected. It needs to be a top priority. Call Zander at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com. That's 800-3525-5225 This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Pelloni

joined by George Camel. We're taking your calls on money, life, relationships, mental health, anything you got going on, work, give us a shout. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to H-Town. Let's go talk to Steven in Houston. What's up, Steven? Hey, guys. How are you doing? It's an honor to be on. Thank you so much, brother. What's up? All right. So I'm 17 years old. I live in Houston, Texas. And for the past year and a half,

inspired by y'all, I've been doing my best to save and work and working a job at Starbucks and various side hustles. I've managed to save $15,000. Whoa. Way to go, man. You got any debt? Appreciate it. No, absolutely none. Dude, you're a rock star. Way to go. So you got $15,000 saved and no debt. And what is your question today? Well, the problem is that whole $15,000 sitting in a high school checking account. And I've been looking up on inflation lately, and it's not looking so good for it. So I was wondering if you had any advice on it. I've been thinking about putting my money in mutual funds,

and my parents have already started a Roth IRA for me, and they're already maxing that out. Wow. I've been having a hard time investing because my parents are in the higher income brackets, so I'd have to get 35% basically off the money at any time I invest with them. Okay, let's slow down a second, Stephen. What do you want to do with your life? Take about 30% off.

What's the next four or five years of your life look like? Are you looking to go to college? Are you looking to go into the workforce, be an entrepreneur? What are you thinking? Yes, sir. I want to go to college. I'm thinking A&M right now. They have a pretty good value and they're right here in Texas. I can still see my family. The whole situation I have is my parents set aside $110,000 for me and anything I don't spend is mine. So I'm looking for a state school for sure. Dude, you are the man, and your parents have raised you well. Sharp people.

So here's the thing. I think you have plenty of time to invest. I have no question you're going to be a multimillionaire, probably by your early 30s at the latest. And so what I want you to do right now is invest in Stephen and make sure that we get Stephen through college completely debt-free, and maybe you're going to want to upgrade and car, and maybe you're going to meet a nice girl. Maybe you're going to want to upgrade a car, and maybe you're going to meet a nice girl, and maybe you're going to want to buy

a house. There's a lot of life that's going to happen in the next 10 years, so I don't want you to throw all your money into investments in the name of inflation. Absolutely. So it's one of those things, brother, you are so ahead of the people around you that you found yourself all alone and you feel like you're behind and you're not. You are way, way ahead. And George, you can do the math quicker than I can, but the inflation against your $15,000 is not going to be make or break over the next few years. You're not talking like, oh, I would have made $10,000 or, you know what I mean?

Yeah, you could put it, and if you want to, put it in a high-yield savings account, which will get you, you know, maybe a percent and a half right now, which is better than zero. Absolutely. But again— I was thinking Marcus by Goldman Sachs. Is that a good one? Yeah, yeah.

I use that one, and it's great. And so that's a good place to park money, but I would not put it into the stock market, into mutual funds. It'll create some taxable scenarios. Your money's going to be locked up. You might be selling at a loss. I don't want that for you at 17 when you've got a lot of life expenses coming up between car, college, housing. There's a lot of unknowns right now. And so I'd rather you have a giant pile of liquid cash at 22 than say, well, I'm broke, but I have $100,000 in mutual funds. Yay. Exactly. And that $110,000 looks huge until you start spending it on college, right? So that's a good semester and a half, probably. I'm just kidding. Texas A&M is a great school,

but you're going to burn through that $110,000 over four years pretty quickly when you factor in rent and room and board and tuition and study abroad, all those things that pop up. So hang in there, brother. And his parents already have the Roth IRA going for him at 17. That's exactly right. So we're doing great, doing great. All right, let's go to Paul in San Francisco. What's up, Paul?

Hey, guys. I have a question for you. I'm 27 years old. I just recently got married about a month ago. Me and my wife are trying to figure out. Thank you very much. Me and my wife are trying to figure out the best approach to create financial freedom in our life. And our next goal is to purchase a home.

Now, I live in the Bay Area, and it's extremely expensive to purchase a home out here. So we're trying to figure out if we should be putting all of our ducks in one basket to put everything towards this home, or as we're doing now, we're putting some money aside for 401k, for mutual funds and other means of investments. So I'm trying to figure out,

should we be splitting it like we're doing now, or should we be trying to put a lot more heavy load onto the house side? Well, I'll borrow this tagline from Reese's. There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's. And so this kind of applies to your 3B. It's the wrong way to say it though, George. It's Reese's.

Reese's Pieces. That's how I remember it. So when it comes to 3B and Baby Step 4, which is what you're talking about, do we pause investing to save up the down payment? It largely depends on your lifestyle, your income, your age, your future goals, your risk tolerance. And your shoe's at 27. You guys are pretty young. You just got married. There's nothing wrong with investing right now as long as you're okay slowing down the down payment process, especially in the Bay Area, which means it could take five to eight years to save up a down payment, right?

Right, right. What's your household income? Right now we clear about $200,000 after tax. Which is minimum wage for San Francisco. Yes. Do you guys want to stay there long term? Yeah, you know, I own a business here, so it would be really hard to move. I would love to get out of this area, honestly, but it just really depends. It's a custom, unique business, so it'd be hard to move it somewhere else.

Well, we usually say if it's going to be longer than two to three years, you're pausing investing. That's our limit. And so if it's going to be beyond that, I would go ahead and begin investing beyond that period of time. But if it's for a short period, two to three years, you want to pause investing. You guys are young. You've got plenty of time on your side. You have a great income. Then if you want to stack up that down payment in two to three years, because you have 15% more of your income, we're okay with that too. So what would that look like for you? Let's say you paused investing. How quickly could you save up a reasonable down payment for a reasonable place in the Bay Area? Well, the goal would be at least 50% down,

which is somewhere here is five to 600K. You know, currently we have a 60 K emergency fund, which I want to hold there. Whoa. And we have about, you know, 400, 500 K in investments. So, you know, we could kind of tap into that stuff, but I don't really want to come my legs off there. So if we didn't tap into any of that stuff, is that non-retirement investments? All non-retirement,? All non-retirement. You're going to hate this. Most of it's in crypto, actually. Wow.

Well, I'm just looking at that pile of money going, hey, what if we cashed out with $500,000 and we fast forward this thing and get out of crypto? What are you doing, man? Yeah, I know, I know. I'm trying to juggle that around too. Trust me. Okay. You can keep juggling it or hang with me here. You can just like stop juggling. Here's what's really cool about your situation. You could do one of two things. You could take

your crypto money and put it in your front yard and just set it all on fire, which would be cool, which is what essentially you're doing. Or you could have a house in the next 30, 45 days. Yeah, yeah, which would be really nice. So do we want virtual money? You want pretend money for internet money? I have some friends who have some internet girlfriends. They're not real, but it's fun. Or do you want a real house that you can put your real body and family into? Yeah. The latter is the obvious answer. I guess what goes on in my head is,

hey, I've made insane growth on my investment over the last 10 years of doing these investments. And I don't want to, it'd be hard for me to cut that off because... You know who thinks the same way? Gamblers in Vegas. They're like, well, I'm doing great. I'm going hot at the craps table. I don't want to get up now. I got to go to the bathroom.

I'm just going to pee in the bottle under the table because I don't want to leave the table, right? Hey, listen, there's a great Nassim Taleb quote that I love. It says, I woke up today. So I'm either immortal or I haven't died yet. And you, my friend, have been playing with fire. And you think, oh, I'm just going to keep building and building.

There's a point when this comes to a dramatic and swift end. I would suggest you cut your losses, my brother. Here's another quote. Quit while you're ahead. Exactly. That's a simpler way to say it. Go buy a house today. Tell your wife, it's happening.

House time is on me and my imaginary money. We'll be right back. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់� how many times have you found yourself saying one day when thinking about a goal you have one day i'll be able to buy a house one day i I'll be happy with my career. Or one day I won't have to battle with anxiety anymore. Stop waiting around. Whatever your one day is, you have to start now. Just start. And that's why we created Smart Conference. Smart Conference is the one day event where we tackle all areas of your life. And hey, let's face it. We could all use that kind of boost right now. You'll hear from the nation's top thought leaders on money, career, mental health, relationships, marriage, and leadership. George will probably be wearing a denim jacket again.

This event is hitting the road and will be coming to Dallas, Texas on Saturday, October 22nd. Event passes are flying out the door. The VIP and Platinum passes are already sold out, but you can still get general access passes for 39 bucks. Best-selling authors and world-class speakers include Rachel Cruz, me, Ken Coleman, George Campbell, Christina Ellis, and Dave will be there in full force, not to mention our friends and leadership experts from Life.Church, Craig and Amy Groeschel.

We'll have some other big surprises. It's going to be a blast. It's going to be an all-day thing. Make sure you go check it out. Visit ramseysolutions.com slash events to get your event passes today. All right, let's go to Amy in Boise. Hey, what's up, Amy? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. Thank you so much for reaching out. What's up? Okay. I have a three-week-old baby and last week, unfortunately, my husband said that

he wants a divorce. So I am re-looking at my life and trying to figure out what my next move should be. We had been doing baby step two-ish for a bit here and I'm going to be leaving the marriage debt-free. So my parents have offered to have me move in with them for a time, probably until the spring, and I'm just wondering if that's a smart move or not. So the way you're talking about this is pretty calm and collected. Is,

was this a shock to you or is this a long time coming or are you just in shock right now? I'm pretty sure I'm in shock. Okay. Okay. So, um, yeah,

we've, we've struggled. We've been together for 12 years, married for four and, and we've really been struggling. He's been really distant for about a year, and I've just not recognized the pain of my words. So he's essentially just closed his heart. And he says we have incompatible trauma, and that's why we are going our separate ways.

So it sounds like you're going your separate ways cause he's walking out the door. Um, unfortunately, yeah, I think that's the case. Um, I guess I just start with saying, I'm sorry. Um, Texas, and hurricanes are regular occurrence there. And there was times that we would go in after a hurricane had come through and help our friends or neighbors or community members cleaning up the mess. And sometimes we'd get there soon enough after, um, the hurricane had hit and the sun comes up and there's people walking around just rubble looking for something like a water

bill. Like I got to get this bill. I was supposed to pay it and I got to figure it. I got to find it. And so I can get this thing paid. And it was one of those moments where we had to, you have to get somebody to stop and walk out into the street and look at their house because their house is gone. And so what I would tell you is the, your husband's thrown a grenade in the middle of your life. And so right now we're going to stop talking,

thinking about baby step two. We're going to stop talking about the debt-free journey and all that kind of stuff. What we're going to do is start thinking about four walls. Like, do we have a place that we can go? And you said your mom's reached out. I think that's a great idea. Okay.

Making sure that we have a place to stay. We've got food, we've got clothes, we've got utilities, we've got transportation. Let's make sure these basic needs are met for you and your new, new, new baby. Okay. Let's start there. And I do, and I do have, so we live in a town home now and he's moved out and I can afford it by myself. But I'm just trying to decide if it, maybe where I would do more healing. So here's an important move. And this came from Dr. Andy Young, the guy who trained me on crisis response. Don't make any major decisions for six to 12 months if you can avoid it.

If you have to sell this place because you have to, great. Let's do that because, again, we're going back to survival. Do we have the basics right now? But trying to figure out, I mean, you're talking, when did your husband tell you this? Last Wednesday. Yeah. I mean, you're in the middle of this thing. Okay.

Trying to figure out like, where's the best place I'm going to do healing? Let's worry about, do we have food and do we have a roof? Okay. And then we're going to start figuring out, okay, what is the paperwork process? Do we have an attorney? Someone's going to walk alongside us in this divorce and make sure the assets are all separated and everything. And people say things like, I'm going to make sure I pay off all the debt when we leave and all this stuff, man, then lawyers get involved and everybody gets messy. And so I would wait until the smoke clears on the actual divorce. And Dave says this best. Once somebody says, I want a divorce and they

move out, the relationship is gone from a romantic transitions from a romantic relationship to a business transaction. That's where you get an attorney because now this is a business interaction between you and this man that you were married to see the difference there. Yeah. And now it's about protecting you and that little girl and making sure you're able to separate with dignity. And then we're going to start thinking about healing. Where's the best place? Should I sell this condo and all that kind of stuff? You see what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Key here is make sure you surround yourself with other people. Yeah. You cannot go through this process alone. I've had a really great support system. Good. Good, good, good, good.

Will you ask for help and lean into it? Yeah. Okay. Maybe set up meal trains. I'm going to need somebody to take care of this and this and this for a season. Anybody have a good attorney? Will somebody go with me to talk to the lawyer? Because I'm only going to hear part of it because I'm going to be in shock.

See what I'm saying? Like get somebody to go with you on these things. And that will be in your corner as you're figuring out what comes next. Okay. Do you have income right now, Amy? Are you working outside the home before the baby? Yes, I do. Okay.

Do you see yourself going back to work? Yeah, definitely. I make $118 a year, and I've got two kids now, so I've got to work. What does child care look like? We have a great daycare, and we had been planning to send them both there once I go back. So, yeah, I'm just in the middle of my leave now, so just sitting around absorbing all this information. How old is your youngest? I mean your oldest.

He's three years old. Oh my gosh. Jeez Louise. A great gift you can give him is to not act stoic and rock solid through this process. Let him see mom be sad. And don't use him as a prop to hold you up because he can't carry the weight of your pain and the weight of your hurt.

But his body is going to react to dad moving out. And his body is going to react to mom's out and his body's going to react to mom's anxiousness and the transition and what are we doing and why is grandmother over here all the time all that kind of stuff and if he sees mom be sad too and says you know bubba i'm sad also can i give you a hug and he gives you a hug he sees you cry, and then he sees you get up and go help get food on the table, get some things going on. That's going to be a gift for him because he's not going to feel crazy. He's going to feel like he's just like mommy, and mommy's sad too.

Amy, I want to give you one more gift. Hang on the line. Austin will pick up. I'm going to get you connected with a financial coach on us in the Boise area who can walk with you through this process. And please, please call us back if you need anything else. I'm going to give you a copy on your past, change your future as well. You can get that book and start working through that as figure out what comes next. We're so, so sorry. We'll be right back. Thank you. This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. Lines.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the

wrong color, like George did with his jacket today, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more. Use promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Alex

in Chattanooga. My father-in-law wants to take the whole family, seven adults, four kids, to Scotland in 2024. His scheme is to pay for the air tickets with American Express credit card points. He has ordered cards for his three daughters and wants them to pay for everything in their life with them and pay him back on a weekly or monthly basis. Not sure of that detail yet. He has already decided this and the cards are in the mail apparently he needs about 1 million points to get all the tickets for free i know this is a horrific idea i don't know how to tell him no on this can we just before we get into this it's kind of a great idea like brilliant i see

this guy he's was like in a in a in an ihop and he was like wait a minute and then he's like uh had a napkin and started doing the math was like i could take my whole family oh and he's a million points oh he's a million points this is like when i was at chucky cheese and i was like okay i need 40 000 tickets to get the boom box and so i'd spend like 20 bucks 30 bucks, and I'd end up with like 400 tickets. And they gave you like a little sticky hand and like a pack of gum. And so with $18,000,

I could get that boom box up there with 40,000. Okay, so- But he's asking, I don't know how to tell him no. It's a father-in-law. It's messy. It's a little bit of a different relationship. All right, so anytime somebody's asked me, George, how do I tell somebody no on this? We always practice.

Say, repeat after me. No, thank you. And then they'll look at me like I'm kind of an idiot, and then they'll say, no, thank you. And I'll be like, you did it. You did it. So here's what we have here. We have a father-in-law who loves his family and he wants to do a really cool thing. I would even go as far to read into this story is that there's something in their family

lineage in Scotland, right? Maybe it's, we're going to go back and see where great, great, great, great grandparents lived or something. The whole idea here is pretty cool. And the father-in-law wants to honor everybody. We're going to do this. And father-in-law looks in the bank account and says, I can't pay for 11 people to go for a week to Scotland.

Fair enough. Very few father-in-laws could do that. But he figured out a plan. It's just that the plan, as Alex writes, is a horrific idea. George, walk through. Why is this a terrible idea? I've got my own opinion on it, but go ahead. Well, number one, he's apparently forcing his daughters to use credit cards to fund their life

in order to get these points. And so I look at it logically. I look at the goal, right? The goal is Scotland 2024 for 11 people. And I go, okay, how much is that going to cost? So then I go, okay, we have two years to save up. Let's say it's $3,000 a person. Then I go, okay, how much is that going to cost? So then I go, okay, we have two years to save up, let's say it's $3,000 a person. Then I go, okay, daughter, number one, could you save up $3,000 in the next two years? What would that take to do that with cash? And I guarantee you, it's a lot easier than the scheme of hoping you have enough points and by two years from now, let's hope American Express hasn't changed their program and what those points are actually valued at and what the blackout dates are and which airlines and places you can fly to.

It's a nightmare. And worse built into this is, hey honey, you owe me $49. Hey honey, you owe me $706. And what happens when they can't pay because they overspent to trying to help dad get as many points as possible. Or they have a $700 Costco bill and they swipe it and

then all of a sudden the transmission falls out and they got to fix that and now dad's like wait a minute guys i gotta i need my but john there was six percent points if you shop online at this specific retailer and so that's why i spent a thousand dollars gotcha in order to get the six percent instead of the four i needed 111 pairs of Banana Republic socks so that I could get the... This is the game we're playing. Now, the numbers here are outrageous. A million points of anything, regardless of what... We don't know what these points are worth.

So great. So look at Bitcoin. All right, here's my problem with it, okay? And you and I have talked about this just hanging out. Let's say this works perfectly. Let's say the family, they're all in. They come up with a foolproof system. We are going to, every week, we're going to write dad a check for the money that we spent.

We're going to spend anyway. We're going to spend this money anyway. We had to buy groceries anyway. We had to pay for rent anyway. We had to do all these things anyway. We just threw them on this American Express card. And then we wrote dad a check instead of writing it to our rent or to our light bill or whatever. Everything works out perfectly.

And the family takes a 100% free trip to Scotland in 2024. It all works. Here's what got me out of this system. Because I'm somebody who used points and we paid it off every month. It never affected my family other than I was quote unquote winning. And it was a light bulb moment for me when I realized, oh, this credit card company is not my friend. They're not just giving me free flights in hotels because they like me. And they're like, you've been so good to us, bro. We're going to be good to you. That's

not how they work. Then I realized that there's a single mom with three kids trying to figure out how she can put gas in the car because it's tripled in price. And she can't figure it out. She's got to swipe this card. And it's got a $500 limit. And she's having to balance that card with another one with a $250 limit. And she's paying for my flight. And I'm not going to be a part of a system that preys on people who can't make their payments or who found themselves suddenly a single mom like the last caller or who's living in a city and all of a sudden rent's tripled.

I'm not going to go to Scotland for free on the backs of those men and women who are trying to scratch and claw their way through life. I'm opting out of a corrupt system that preys on people who have less than or who are struggling. I'm noting out of a corrupt system that preys on people who have less than or who are struggling. I'm not going to play. I couldn't enjoy a trip to Scotland that I got for free knowing that it was paid for by people who are struggling. Or who don't have enough control in their life or who use shopping as some form of medication or some sort of anxiety relief from trauma. I'm not going to play that game. I'm opting out. I'd rather pay for my trip to Scotland. I'd rather tell my family, I want to do this cool thing. Like you mentioned earlier in two years, can we all save

up? Can we all be a part of this? I'd rather that than this pretend thing. Like I'm taking this all for free. Y'all just do chores for me for the next two years. Yeah. You do chores for me for the next two years and then we're all going for free. I'm just not playing that game. No, so it's more of a, it's a heart thing. If you truly believe it's free, then their marketing is working very, very well. That's right. Or that they're friends with you. That's amazing because what's going to take truthfully, they're going to have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on those cards over the next two years in order to get their million points and even if you were going to do it anyway don't play in a system that preys on other people just don't man not worth it yeah so just save up

so hey here's the here's the the truth before we pass this on your father-in-law comes to you and says hey um this is what we're doing this is how we're doing it. The conversation is probably, again, me and a friend of mine argue on this, but I think your wife is the one or your husband, I don't know if Alex is a man or woman, but whoever is the direct child of this father-in-law sits down and says, Hey, I don't play with credit cards. I don't participate in this game. You let me know how much the tickets cost and I'll let you know if we can afford our family's ability to go. And we will put in the cash on this trip, but I don't participate in this. And it might be, are you, come on, it's all figured out. It's all cool. That's great, man. I just don't, I don't play in that game. And if your father-in-law doesn't

respect your family's boundaries in that way, if your father-in-law doesn't respect your family's boundaries in that way this trip to scotland's gonna be a pretty awful adventure so you're you've opted out thank goodness you avoided a pretty disastrous trip together right yeah i only see that one of two ways either father-in-law goes hey i want to gift this to you guys with no strings attached or hey i'd love to go on this trip let me know if you guys can make it and if we can afford it. There you go. But this weird in-between of you've got to play by my rules

and sign up for this credit card and pay me back every month for everything you – that creates a very different dynamic in the relationship. Yeah. It just sounds like I've come up with a great idea. You just do chores for me for a long time. It reminds me of the call Dave took where a guy said, hey, I want to buy a payphone for the house, and everyone puts quarters in it, and then I get all the money, and we get free phones.

And Dave's like, don't you have to pay for the phone line? Like the air that the phone... And the guy was like, oh, I didn't think about that. Dang it, I thought I scammed the system. And big whiff. Good job. Speaking of scamming the system, that's the first hour of the books today, ladies and gentlemen. We did it.

We did it, even though you got denim on denim here, George, and we're still going anyway. We're going strong. Hey, we'll be back in the next hour. Join us, 888-825-5225. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash show.