The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Tell My Husband We're $60k in Debt? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, where you can get help with any area of your life. He's my co-host today. Open phones at help? Well, I feel really broken. I have acquired some personal loans, credit cards, and medical bills that my husband is not aware of. They total

in about $60,900 to my dollars. I really don't know how to confront him about it, and I guess I need to know what my next steps after I would do that would be. That's pretty scary. Yeah, what happened along the way? Well, we've been married. It'll be 29 years this May. I'm 50 years old. I'll be 50 on March the 23rd. This happened one other time that I had got some credit cards, and it was in 2012.

The quantity of that was $7,774. We bought a home in 2000, and we ended up refinancing it in 2012, and we were able to get that caught up. He was upset, but this time the quantity is much more. Unfortunately, I met a, well, fortunately, I had met one of your preferred coaches back in 2017. And I wanted to get finances in order, not live paycheck to paycheck. And at the time, I didn't have any credit card bills. I just had a few loans.

And I feel like my husband has neglected some of the emotional support that he should give. And so the coaches said, you know, you need to be a team. Your husband should come. And my husband did go one time. And during that time, you know, we talked about our situation. He didn't show a lot of emotion. I cried and begged for him to take over the month. And so the next time I met the coach, he said he could tell that my husband wasn't totally involved.

And we continued to meet for less than a year. And I felt like I could maybe do it on my own. So you're handling the whole household budget on your own or your finances are separate and you on your own have gone into debt it's it's all together um but he gets paid weekly and a lot of times he will cash his check and he will um take some of that for his lunch money and he does smoke, and so he has, like, he takes that money. If I take the check, I will give him, like, $120 for that next week. But you're supposed to be managing all the money, and so the only reason he doesn't know about the debt is he's not involved in the money.

Correct. So why was he upset when he gave you the money to manage and then you didn't do it because he doesn't help? Well, I guess, I mean, I take responsibility. I shouldn't have done this. But I do feel like he should have stepped up. Yeah, both are true. Yeah. Both are true. And they're not, you know you know no you shouldn't have gone this far in debt without talking to anybody you should have raised a stink a long time ago but now here

we are so it's sixty one thousand dollars in debt and what kind of debt is this um eleven thousand of it is credit card twenty seven thousand of it is like little personal loans but they're they're terrible uh high interest rate and stuff um so basically you come up short in the household budget and go cover it with a credit card or a payday advance loan or something like that you are correct okay and he and so that it wasn't like you went and bought something for yourself on the side while he's completely running the household budget over here and you just lied to him about a credit card you're running the household and you're not doing a good job and that got you guys into debt he does just doesn't know about that. Am I correct or am I missing something?

No, you are totally correct. Okay. All right. And the rest, so 27 is the bad personal loans. How much was credit cards again? $11,000. Okay. What's the rest of it?

I have a 401k loan that $270 comes out of each paycheck. What's the balance on the 401k loan? uh 270 comes out of each paycheck what's the balance on the 401k loan 5200 okay and what's the rest of it the medical bills are 7400 um i mean it's like 7407 72 but i'm just kind of you're fine i don't do The pennies don't matter at this point. I'm trying to get the concepts. So who got sick? It was my daughter that's in college. She was having major stomach pain, and it took two emergency room trips. So $4,000 of that is, it's twenty six hundred both of them are about twenty dollars difference for two different hospital emergency rooms trips okay all right

and then here's the thing here's the thing okay you've got some financial problems that are solvable but more so you have a tremendous marriage problem. Massive. Do you agree with that? I do. Okay. I really do. When something is this big, you have a data point,

and that is when you sat down with him and said, hey, I've been managing this all by myself, and you're not helping, and I have driven this car off the road into the ditch to the tune of $7,000. You've got a data point on how he reacted. Now you're 8.5x that or or eight x that eight times that much i recommend you get some either a couple or a pastor somebody that you trust to be a part of this conversation because it may be combustible are you going to be safe is he going to overreact is he going to yell and scream he's going to hit you he's going to run out of the house? What do you think his reaction's going to be?

He's pretty much passive-aggressive. I do fear emotionally more than anything the rejection. I think I could take better if somebody punched me. He's not doesn't beat up on me or anything. Okay. You need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

ASAP. Now. The debt thing, you can work out with one of our coaches, and you actually know how to do that when the two of you get on the same page. Hang on the line here. I'm going to hook you up with three months of better help for free, and at least give you somebody to call right now today licensed counselor hang on the line and austin will get you taken care of there dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host so john um we wanted to let her off the hook because she had so much weight there, and we'll help her offline a bunch of different ways, come clean with a $61,000 that she hadn't told her husband about

that is really derived from her being saddled with managing all the money by herself and doing it poorly. And too ashamed to say I'm not doing it well, and I can't do it by myself. I asked you to help, but you didn't. And then instead of bringing that forward, she just wall wallows in it and it spirals and gets worse so a hundred percent of that is a marriage issue not a money issue right and um so i don't know let's kind of reverse engineer that a little bit if somebody's in the earlier stages of something like that what okay like like the first okay she took him to the uh financial

counselor and he was disinterested but sat there um then he continues to just basically dump the entire responsibility of the household finances on her with no emotional help or help of any kind. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite, a cloud looming over. If you screw this up, I'm going to be mad and reject you. So what should she do and where? If someone's's facing something similar where in that storyline should the direction change in in how she's handling this well i she she did she did the right order she went and met with a professional one of our ramsey coaches who then said i'm not gonna meet with you you got to do this together so she brought her spouse in spouse looked at her said i'm uninterested and

we see this happen a lot with my friends who work as personal trainers like both couple the couple comes in they're both going to get in shape one's like i'm not doing that so now you got a choice are you going to poison yourself because it's easier because it's, basically she chose over a period of time, I'm going to cash in my integrity. I'm going to cash in my, I'm not going to seek extra help. I'm not going to raise the flag here because he's not helping, right? And at some point when somebody,

when your person you're married to cashes out, you have to make a choice to, I'm not going to further dig a hole and punish myself. I'm not going to live a more miserable life because you're not participating. I'm not going to take misery plus misery here. And so I'm going to control the only thing on earth I can control, which are my thoughts and my actions. And I'm going to do the best I can with what I got. And if you're not going to help me, then I'm going to get a coach to walk alongside me for the entire duration of this thing.

Yeah, I'd get a coach, but I'd also then every time it comes up short i'm gonna dump it in his lap every single time yeah every time the first time i'm doing the budget and we don't have enough to cover everything i'm gonna go i we're out we're short or i'm gonna go put a i'm gonna get a realtor and put a sign in the yard because we can't afford this life that we're living yeah there's you know i'll put a sign in the two car windows this idea that you're going to give it to me to handle and that's suddenly going to make you not have to deal with it isn't going to happen because you're going to deal with it every time it comes up short i'm going to dump this in your lap we're going to turn mr passive aggressive into all the time we're talking about this because i'm not going to carry this by myself i'm not going to drown just because you won't swim. Yeah.

Right. And I'm not going to allow your inaction to cause me to hide everything. Right. Out of shame. And here's the other side. Just put it in his lap. Put it in his lap. Put it in his lap.

Put it in his lap. Every single month. I can't do this. I'm not doing it right. It's going in the hole. What do you want me to do? Because you don't like it when it goes in the hole. I don't like it when it goes in the hole, but I don't know how to fix it.

Can you help? What are we going to do? What are we going to sell? Who's going to go make some more money? That's it. There's a choosing reality part, which maybe you've got to go get a job. Is that fun? No.

Is that right? No. But the reality is we've got a hole. Yeah. Right? If the only thing you're going to do is earn money and dump it on me, you're going to have to earn some more because we don't have enough. Right.

So you need to get two jobs. Or I'm going to go get a job because we don't have enough right so you need to get two jobs or i'm gonna go get a i'm gonna go get a job because we don't have enough money and so you're gonna have to be you're you're making dinner yeah if you want to eat at night and in the morning good on you because i gotta go work because something's got to give here and we get i think we get stuck in the loop man the very first time that would be my suggestion the very first time it comes up short, you bring it up. And every single time thereafter, as opposed to slowly going into debt, small cash advance, small credit card debt at a time, and then their daughter was ill, has stomach issues.

Did that run through your mind too? Oh, yeah. I wonder why she has stomach issues. That's through your mind too oh yeah i wonder why she has stomach issues that's just a chaotic home yeah yeah i mean i assume so much stress in the air so much stress but again when you live a life without any margin one of your kids pops up sick and that's that's why we do this we don't teach people to get out of debt so that nothing ever happens we teach them to get a debt because something's gonna happen yeah right you are gonna have a kid call from college who needs to go to the er in the middle of the night i made that call countless times and so i get two kinds of debt being hidden

from spouses kind number one is i wanted to do what i wanted to do he wouldn't go along with this sort of hell with him i'm just gonna go take out a credit card and buy a louis vuitton right and and and i want to buy something and i don't like this budgeting stuff so i'm just going to be a child and act like i'm in congress and spend money i don't have right and uh open a credit card he doesn't know about so i can get it done. That's kind number one. That's a spoiled brat princess deception in financial infidelity. But I run into this one almost as often, the hidden debt, where we're hiding debt from the spouse because the spouse said, you handle the money, they're not handling the money well,

and the shame that they're not doing a good job, and therefore they're going into debt, causes them to not reveal it rather than turn and dump the whole shoebox of bills right back in his lap and go, hey, buddy, turn off Monday Night Football. You've got to help because I can't do this, and you're going to whine and cry and carry on if I do it wrong, so I'm out. I'm out. Or you're spending more money than we have, and carry on if I do it wrong. So I'm out. I'm out. Or you're spending more money than we have, and you don't seem to get that.

I'm not paying any more bills. Nope. I'm not sending the money anymore because. I'm not going to sit over here and carry 100% of the stress of this entire freaking household while you just go off to work. And you cash your paycheck that you got this week. I ain't your mama. I'm your wife.

That's right. Yeah. And so there's the adjustment there. But that's the two kinds of deception i find and actually i think the louis vuitton one is actually a lot more evil that version to me absolutely this is this is shame based right and that one's arrogance and pride based yeah but both are deception the shame's heavy man it'll bury you if you're not careful it's real it's heavy yeah and um makes you do things you would normally do but i think it's about standing up and saying i'm worth more than this life yeah no no no not doing it nope nope yeah nope nope

jake is with us and jake is in indian Hi, Jake. How can we help? Hi. So let me give you some context before I ask my question. Quick. My long-term girlfriend and I recently graduated. We each have about $100,000 in student loans. I'm all in and paying it off in two to three years. I'm excited to get to tackle this beast. She's more excited about the new likelihood of getting engaged and married. We've had this dream talk that you guys mention quite often about money,

and she's questionably on board with paying off the debt. I say questionable because historically she's not been great with money and kind of avoidant around taking action despite our discussions and my offering help. So my question is, am I wrong to think we should wait a year or so before getting engaged so we can both pay off a chunk and kind of show that we're both committed and being on the same page? It has nothing to do with both. You're trying to test her to see if she's worthy of engagement. That's bull crap.

Yeah. Y'all need to go talk to somebody as a couple. Yeah, no way. Nope. Well, yeah, I agree with John that you should go talk to somebody as a couple because, hey, she's not going to change by getting engaged. And she's not going to change by you making her pass a test to get engaged. That's a false box to check. Neither one of those are there she's going to

change when she decides that it's as important as you think it is and until you're aligned on that you should not get engaged but it's i'm not going to have her pass a test right because you're going to do you're going to do that when she wants to have a baby well you got to pass my mom test and then when she wants to buy a house we don don't test our marriage partners. We walk alongside them. Yeah. And so, yeah, she's got a, but I agree that you shouldn't go forward with marriage until you get this figured out and get aligned. Because your values aren't aligned.

You're not aligned. You're going to have a long life trying to make this happen. It's not going to happen. So you guys need to get aligned and then you need to get engaged and get married. As soon as you're aligned, regardless of the debt. As soon as you're aligned. But you're not aligned right now. This is The Ramsey Show.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Harry is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Harry. How are you? Hi, good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So my wife and I recently finished paying off all of our debt, and we have our emergency fund fully funded now. Way to go. How does that feel? Thank you. It feels amazing. I couldn't even explain how good it feels. Amen. Love it. Good for you. Thank you. Yeah. And now I guess we're looking ahead at new goals and one of those being potential home ownership. And basically,

my question is, you know, would it be better to do the 15-year mortgage or just save up and pay for a house in cash? Well, it's always better to pay in cash, period. Now, then what tempers that answer is, this is one of the few things on the air or in our teachings that I answer, that I'm going to do it one way and I'm going to give you an option of doing it the other way. I do everything we teach, everything. Okay. And I don't borrow money ever for anything, no matter what. So if Sharon and I were asking this question, we would simply have to wait. We're building a house right now. There was no chance we were building that house unless we had the cash period. Cause we just do not borrow money. We will never be in in debt again haven't been in debt in 30 years we'll never be there again ever okay now when people call in on the air we say as you know harry because you've referenced it uh we're we don't yell at you for a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payments no more than a fourth of your

take-home pay and then you turn around and have the goal that the average baby step millionaire following the ramsey stuff has their home paid off in 10.2 years average meaning some do it slower some do it faster because the sooner you get your home paid off the sooner you're not paying the bank the sooner you're putting that money into investments and the sooner you reach millionaire or two millionaire or five millionaire right and that's goal. That's where we're headed. So all of that to say, if you did take out a mortgage, the way you're asking the question, I would want to take out the least possible and pay it off the fastest possible at a minimum. 15-year might be it, but it sounds like with you guys it might be something else. And then I step back and I say, say okay how far out are we like i know one couple saved up the money to pay cash for a house in three years if you can do that then save up and

pay cash if it's going to take you eight years if we if we kept the intensity um we you know that was such a horrible part of our life that i think just the idea of going into it again for a house is very uncomfortable for us. And that's why I wanted to make sure you are going to wreck ourselves, uh, as both of us. Okay. Okay. Cause I mean, yeah, sometimes one person is like completely panic attacked about debt like me and the other one's not as they're, they along but they're not not as worried about it so um uh so what's your household income about a hundred thousand okay and what what size home are you thinking about buying price range wise um in our area we were looking around

three hundred thousand okay and what do you have now saved towards it? Anything? 40,000. Okay. All right. And so you need 260,000 to pay cash out of a hundred a year. And so if you put, you know, if you put, I don't know, 50 of that, you're gonna be there in five years. Right. I guess, you know, the other thing I could do and what i was doing while we were paying off debt is i was working extra so our income used to be higher because i was doing doordash and uber eats and things like that when i was off to try and accelerate everything how old are you guys there was um 25 okay all right um yeah i i would probably get a really good strong down payment in your situation and i'd be just fine with you guys taking out a small mortgage and then having a five-year plan to pay it off now is pausing retirement smart to to do that if you're

going to do it in three years but you're not going to do it in three years okay it's pausing retirement to pay cash for a house smart yeah yeah but if you're going to do it in three years or four years but if you're if it's gonna this is going to take you guys five years because i we do not recommend gazelle intensity all the way through the end of this and put you on a five-year plan more than you've already done of door dashing just to no i wouldn't i wouldn't if i mean i would because i don't borrow money but uh but you know or i'd buy less house and do a step-up plan you know i'd go buy me a hundred fifty thousand dollar house which ain't much right some kind of dump in pittsburgh that's what it would be probably i don't know i guess it would be and so but i'd get in there and at least get in there and then didn't go do it again then

go do it again that's kind of what we've done too we did that with cars i was driving a piece of crap that was worth a hundred dollars and then you know then i got a two thousand dollar car and then i got an eight thousand dollar car and then you know every time i just because that you know but i you could that would at least i had a car and you can kind of do that plan here too either one of those at work but any of the none of these answers are wrong harry because they're all heading in the right direction what's wrong is taking out a 30-year mortgage um and promising you're going to pay it and the payment's a huge chunk of your take-home pay, and you can't breathe, and you go,

oh, because real estate prices are high, and I'm a whiny millennial, you know, and give me a break, you know. No, that's just bull crap, because we have actual stud millennials who pay cash for things all the time or pay off their debts all the time, so it's doable. It's just, but we have this, when there's systemic problems with the economy. Yeah, right.

You're stuck. You're so stuck. But, you know, because we're not like the baby boomers who bought their houses for three buckets of strawberries. So, yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, the whining is just incessant.

But, yeah, you're not whining here. I'm not making fun of you, but this is the crap we deal with in the social media world. So, uh, yeah, have at it, man. Um, if you want to do five, but you need to have realistic numbers. How fast can you get? I mean, if you do 70,000 a year, it's going to take you three and a half years. If you do 50,000, it's going to take you five years. Just do the 260 divided by some number out of your 100, and then how much door dashing do you all want to do? How badly do you want to do this? I mean, you've got little kids at home.

She's going to be sick of you being gone all the time. How far do you stretch this out? What level of price are you willing to pay? And or do we scale down the house price and move 40 miles further out of town so that we buy about the same house for 200 instead of 300 maybe that's a way to do it i don't know there's maybe some other choices you can make here that gets you going but but no i would not try to do something you know for 10 years we're going to have no life so one time we pay cash for house and it's the perfect house by then the target will have moved yeah and i think it's just coming to terms if y'all are going to sign up for a mortgage let's put it in a blood oath

that this isn't going to be a gateway drug to just borrow more money again yeah and let's let's say okay we're going to do it for this one thing and just to get us a house and we got a five-year plan to pay it back we're going to be pretty diligent but we're also going to go on dates and we're going to get a couch and things like that. But let's do this right. And this is not a path to deconstruction again. Yeah. But I mean, we had one couple, they, they just gotten married and they made a hundred and they were telling us about, they moved into this rich old lady's apartment over the top of her garage. And they were a brand new married couple. He cut her grass and she fed her dog and walked her dog and the they live there almost free and they made 100k well i mean they they saved 80 000 a year

for three years and paid cash for a 250 000 house in three years and they were 25 years old you know and so that that's not a bad plan but but but doing that for 10 years is different than doing it for three. And they found a way to make the thing work. And that's a cool story. I like that story. I mean, one of them was a fireman. One of them was a teacher. That's pretty neat.

That's similar to we moved into a residence hall for a year to pay off everything. And we were going the other way. We were so underwater. But similar. Not everybody has that story but it was it was cool but we figured out a way yeah right yeah you scratch and claw and fight and do weird things it's a weird real estate market out there and i'll make fun of you guys but also tell you i know it's tough yeah but here's the thing you can either scream at the wind or you can adjust your sails this is the Ramsey Show.

Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1-4. He comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe. Amberlee is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberlee, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, my husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes, and we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year. What kind of mistakes? Well, we're house poor. We bought a duplex that, you know, it's overwhelming. We pay about $3,000 a month, and we only make about $60,000 gross a year. So why would you wait a year? You're drowning. I know, we are. what is it you're waiting on

well i i i'm the main person uh who does the budget and i was i was just i for some reason it seems like we make we we do somewhat make a little bit more money by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. I feel like it would be better if we can move. I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not?

Well, we make 60 grand growth, and then we also get $2,500 a month from the other side. And so, I don't know. I know we probably should. Do you not like being a landlord, Amberlee? No. Okay. I don't.

Solid. Yeah, be honest about the problem. I can hear, this thing's a brick around your neck. Yeah. Your sanity's not worth it. It is. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a stupid house. Yeah, it is. And we found out that our tenant has been running the water 24-7. And so, sorry, I'm just a little overwhelming being on the air. Sorry. It's okay. You're good. We've never lost a patient.

You're okay. Yeah, and I want to, and we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but. Doesn't. I do want to get rid of it. It's not fun. No. Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun. No. This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse. Yeah. And TikTok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to... And now it's not fun. Now it's not fun. You found out TikTok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, should we put it on the market like next month? By Friday. Yeah, Friday. Friday. Friday sounds good. Okay. I'm notiday sounds good okay i'm not kidding okay i'm

not kidding if i have something i own that i hate as bad as you hate this even if i made a mistake and i'm ashamed to admit the mistake i'm still going to admit the mistake i want to kill it as soon as i can kill it i want it i want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things i've done otherwise every time you drive up the driveway you're going I don't feel really good about me yeah and you can't be the wife you want to be you can't be the mom you want to be you can't be the employee you want to be it affects every every square inch of your life you're not you're not having fun we can hear it and it's not just you're scared to be on the air it's your whole situation right yeah I mean if you had a house payment you could afford you could breathe again

you're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now yeah it's overwhelming i'm scared yeah we can hear it and and it's not being mean to you i I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. And so the thing is that the faster you act on this, the quicker you're going to get peace. Yeah. And peace is really our goal here. You got plenty of time to buy a different house, plenty of time to make different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go rent an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit.

And then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate. You can do this. Okay. So go to RamseySolutions.com and click on Real Estate ELPs for Ramsey-trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted, and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

I like real estate, but I hate real estate. Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up, Alejandro? Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water. No troubles. Yes. My question is, is it worth it to go to college? Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have a, you know, my brother, he's basically studying in U.S.

And he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors. Now, he's a, you know, straight A student and everything. And my worrisome is that his debt is five digits. So, no, yeah, it's five digits, basically. So he's going from, like, let's say from $9,000 to $60,000, and, like, the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right? Are we asking about you or him? This is more for him than it is for myself.

Well, he's already made his decision. Right, right. But what I wanted to know is that, like, from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off, as in, like, a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like $70,000 instead of the range that the college promised them. And that's kind of like, you know. What is his degree going to be in to continue the discussion?

Sports medicine. Okay. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine? $60,000. Okay. And this is's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine? $60,000. Okay. And this is a four-year degree? It's becoming eight. He did four, then he got his master's like two years ago.

Oh, so he's getting a Ph.D. in sports medicine. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's not necessary in that field. But the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college because, yes, it's okay to go to college. College is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace.

The problem was your brother overdid it. He got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space or at least one more that he could afford and if he wants to move up then he gets his master's do not need a phd in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space yeah unless maybe if you're going to go work for an nfl team or something they may want you to have a doctor by your name but who knows i don't even know the particulars of that. But the college is going to give you a range, and when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska. It's all over the place. And so don't blame the college.

He's got to do his own research and say, what does it pay in the area that I want to live? I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job. I agree with you, Alejandro. That's not worth it. Absolutely not. And you can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome.

There's a gap right now in the marketplace, and they pay beautifully. But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement either yeah it's not a factual statement getting a degree in stupidity left-handed puppetry or german polka history and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous and so that's dumb but you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad that's just not true no the data is my kids are gonna go to college yeah mine too mine did yeah there you go that puts us out of the ramsey show in the books

we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. We'll see you next time.