The Ramsey Show - App - How Do My Husband and I Get on the Same Page Financially? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. We talk about your career. We talk abouthost today. We talk about your career. We talk about your work. We talk about your money. We talk about your life and your relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. As we start off this segment, I'm going to bring an old friend to the line. Mitch Albom is with us. Mitch is a seven times number one New York Times bestseller, and most of us were first introduced to Mitch through Maury, Tuesdays with Maury. What a wonderful book, and he's written many wonderful books since then, and has been a radio host as well, and that's where we met. I think Mitch originally was at a talk radio convention, wasn't it?

I think that's right, Dave. Yeah, how are you doing good my brother how are you i'm hanging in there thanks good good a brand new book out the stranger in the lifeboat another novel or a novel and um this one's incredible uh i just got to started thumbing through it, and I think I'll probably read it tonight. I got a feeling I'm just going to plow right through it. It looks like a pretty – I got stuck. I mean, you open the middle of the book and you start turning pages. That's not good, right? Not good for somebody like me. I need to go back to the beginning and get the whole story,

but I got a feeling of what's going on. What brought this book to your mind? Where did this creative impulse come from? Well, I wanted to write a book about how we ask for help in this world, and particularly when we ask for help from God or the universe. And so I created this story about this luxury yacht, which has all these famous rich celebrities on it and famous people around the world. And inexplicably, out in the middle of the ocean, it blows up up and everybody's killed except 10 people, five of whom are the rich people

and five of whom are the staff who serve them on the boat. And they make their way to a life raft and they're on this life raft for three days and nobody's coming for them. And they're running out of food and they see sharks in the water and they're crying out for help in every which way. And suddenly they see this body floating in the water and they pull it into the raft. And it's this young guy who's alive. They're nondescript, average looking skinny guy. And they pepper him with questions. He doesn't answer. And finally, one of the passengers says, well, thank the Lord we found you. And he says, I am the Lord. And the book takes off from there.

And it explores the whole idea of, you know, when we cry out for help, if it comes, but it's not the form we expected because he's not. He doesn't look like a God. He doesn't talk like it. He falls asleep. He gets hungry. He eats and they don't believe he is who he says he is. And he says, I can save you, but only if everybody here believes I am who I say I am, and becomes a parable about how do we accept help even if it doesn't look like what we expected.

Yeah, the whole element of faith, having faith in order for the help to be present. Mitch, Ken Coleman here. I'm curious how much of your own faith journey, two of your books, obviously with Heaven in the title, I'm curious how much of your faith journey and how you believe we're supposed to respond to help and what our relationship with faith looks like. How much does it play out in this narrative? Well, it was the impetus for it, to be honest, Ken. Personally, I operate an orphanage in Haiti that I'm at every month for the last 12 years. And I raised, along with my wife, we have 54 kids there,

and one of whom we adopted a few years back when she developed a brain tumor. And we tried to save her. And for two years, we traveled around the world trying to do so, but we weren't successful in the end. And she died when she was seven. And I was extremely angry at the world and at God and the universe. And, you know, I couldn't believe there's a benevolent God who wouldn't be benevolent to a seven-year-old. And it took me, you know, the four years until I actually wrote this book to start to look at it as like, well, it's not what we lost. It's what we were given. And there's a moment in this book where one of the characters asks the God character, you know, okay, well, if you're

God, why do people have to die? You know, why did my wife die? Why did you take my wife? And the answer is, well, why do you always ask when someone dies? Why did God take them? Maybe a better question would be, why did God give them to you? What did we do to deserve or merit their attention, their love, all the memories that they gave us? I know that you cry when your loved ones die here on earth, but I can assure you they're not crying. And, you know, I wrote that as a character for the book and as a line in the book, but I kind of wrote it to myself, Ken, because that's sort of the attitude that I had to sort of adopt and say, wait a minute, why am I blaming God for taking her instead of giving God credit for letting us have her even for the few years we had her,

which were the most glorious years of our life. And we may be crying, but she's not crying where she is. So yeah, a lot of my own kind of thoughts and things that I've bumped along the way on my life have found their ways into the characters in this book. You have done really well with a God-given talent that you've worked so hard to develop to weave a story around something that puts a knot in my stomach and in my throat. I remember crying like a 12 year old when i was reading tuesday to the morning oh yeah oh my goodness and uh of course that book was not fiction correct right that's correct that was a true story yeah and uh but i mean still the storytelling ability

that you've had and uh a lot of people don't know that know you from the book world uh that you're a famous sports writer as well. And so you definitely have an ability with words, an ability to weave a story. But I'm a storyteller. Ken's a storyteller. We speak and communicate for a living. But you are unusually talented at telling a gripping, heart-grabbing story. Congratulations on another big hit uh mitch album the the uh the stranger in the lifeboat is the brand new book i assume it's out now oh yeah it came out

in november and um knock wood it's it's done very very well it seems that uh after covid i think a lot of people were asking for help and and maybe not getting it in the form that they wanted. And all I can say to that is, you know, when we don't think our prayers are being answered and we say, oh, you know, God's not paying attention to me. Think of how many times you think something's bad. And then five, 10 years later, you look back on it and you say, oh, you know, at the time it was terrible. But if that hadn't happened and this wouldn't happened, and I wouldn't have met this person, I wouldn't have gotten married. So I guess in hindsight it was the best thing that could have happened to me.

Well, if it's the best thing that could have happened to you 10 years from now, it is the best thing that can happen to you now. It's just that, you know, we all want everything on our plates right now, you know, like we're ordering fast food. And we can't always understand the way God or the universe works. But usually if you take the long view, most of the things you really want in life, you know, are answered in some way, form. And I know they have been for me.

And I hope that's what people can get from Stranger in the Lifeboat. Very good stuff. Again, the book, The Stranger in the Lifeboat, the newest novel from mitch album seven times number one best-selling author and author of the famous book tuesdays with maury which if you have not read you need to get that on the list as well just pick up both of them while you're at it it'll give you something to do so uh mitch good to talk to you my friend congratulations on all your success thank you dave good to hear your voice again thank you ken, Ken. You guys have a great day. Come visit when you're in Nashua, my brother. All right, Mitch

Albom, The Stranger in the Lifeboat. Be sure and check it out. This is The Ramsey Show. for a lot of you last year was another year of just trying to survive but you don't have to live like that. You can have confidence in your money and your future. So if you're tired of being stressed out all the time, you can decide to make a change. You can follow a plan that works. For almost 30 years, Financial Peace University has helped millions of people take control of their money. You'll learn our proven plan to save money, pay off debt, build wealth, and give generously. Watch FPU on demand or get plugged into a class for encouragement and support from other people.

You don't have to face another year of stress and worry. You can have confidence in your money. FPU is only available with a ramsey plus membership start for free by visiting ramsey solutions.com slash fpu that's ramsey solutions.com slash fpu okay married people imagine never having another money argument whoa what would that feel like? How much better would your marriage be? What about your whole family? When you get on the same page with money, you'll have more peace in your finances and your marriage.

And here's the best part. You can do it by joining a Financial Peace University class. You'll learn how to make a budget together. Sounds like Valentine's. And follow our proven money plan so you can stop fighting about money, start chasing your goals as a team. Millions of couples have gone through this class, and they say it's one of the best things they ever did for their marriage, and it can be for you too. So decide today that you're ready to get on the same page with your spouse about money. Join a Financial Peace University class. You can get started with a free trial.

Visit ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. That's ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman is my co-host today. He is the host of The Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about career, talks about work, and talks about your work life. His number one best-selling book, Paycheck to Purpose, is out there zoom-zooming. We had it come out last fall.

It's done extremely well. He's here to answer your questions about life and money, and so am I. So you jump in, and we'll talk. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Joanna is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Joanna. How are you? Hi, I'm great.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I feel like the question needs a little back story. I'm super new to all this. I started listening to the podcast a couple weeks ago and read the book that had been living around collecting dust. My husband's job cut overtime suddenly,

which is about $20,000 a year for us. And we just went into absolute panic mode. So I read the book in our snow days. We had three days where we got snowed in and I read the entire book cover to cover and I got really excited and hopeful and serious about it. And he is not so much on the same page. He's super defeated at his job. He hates his job.

He's miserable. He feels like there's some coercion to do some medical procedures that he's not interested in and just a lot of bullying in general and what he really wants to do is be a law enforcement officer which is a total career shift and would require you know going to a special school and not working while he does that and I'm trying to translate all this information to him and he just hears me and says, I mean, that's stupid. Credit is necessary. That is necessary. You know, we need to buy a house sooner than later. He wants to leave the city and buy a house in Springfield. There's all these pieces. And I think his anxiety is so high

about his job situation that he just can't hear me. And I wondered if you had any advice about kind of the best way to get through to him because I think this could really shift everything for us. Sorry, I'm feeling a little emotional. That's okay. Sure. Joanna, let me ask you very quickly, what does he do now? What is his job? So he works in loan operations finance.

Okay. So, yeah, he's kind of the back end of an agricultural loan company a huge one and what's his what's his salary or what's his earning now that he's lost that 20,000 in overtime he's he's at about 40,000 and with my three jobs i'm i'm coming in right under 40 as well okay um so we were doing a little better, but we, you know, we have all the stupid debt.

We have like 15,000 credit cards. We have 8,000 left on our car. We have some phone payment, student loans. Um, I didn't actually realize how bad it was until I told him this all this week, which was alarming.

Um, but he's a little bit more spendy than i am i would say we both like the credit and debit card too often but this is just so overwhelming for him and i don't think he finds you to be a credible source because i tend to get excited about things and go all in and then maybe not finish them which is my own weakness that I'm working on. Okay. Well, there's a lot going on here at one time. It's not a simple, the light is switched off, flip the switch on.

It's a whole lot of things happening. Sounds also like there's babies in the background. I'm a nanny, so we're on a walk this is the only that's okay that's okay i'm just making sure i didn't i didn't know it's one of her three jobs okay i have a 10 year old um so that's a piece of the puzzle as well she has some special needs so definitely uh a lot going on okay Okay. Yeah, I think when you're home and he's home and the baby's in bed, we turn off the television, and I think you just tell him not what you guys are doing wrong and not how excited you are about what you read in the Total Money Makeover,

but how scared you are. Okay. I'm scared. And I'm scared that if we keep spending and we keep using credit like we've been doing it's never worked it's gotten us in this mess we've never been able to move out of the mess everything gets bad as soon as it gets tight and i don't see you being able to go and live your new career as long as we're financially strapped and so i want you to be able to do that and i don't want to be afraid anymore and the only way i can see to do those two things me to not be afraid and um you to not be overwhelmed with and anxious and

you to be able to move to a different career is for us to get a detailed game plan a financial game plan to get there because if we didn't if we didn't have any debt and we had some money in savings we could talk a lot more about you moving into a different career but right now we can't even breathe and you can can't breathe, and I can't breathe, and I'm scared. Instead of you accusing him of being the spender or accusing him of not getting it or you've got to get on the same page or you have to read this book or instead of those things. And I think you draw him into this conversation because everything I heard in the whole conversation, this man loves his wife. He absolutely does yeah and if he's not being attacked by his wife instead she's saying help me this is a guy who will come to her rescue yeah i think i tend to be the like positive one in all

circumstance and so he sees me a little bit delusional when things are overwhelming um i guess i'm always worried about coming to him and saying that i'm scared hopeless it's gonna just pile on top of him well it's i i think he can handle it yeah also understand joanna he's very discouraged right now and you mentioned that but he's very discouraged and to the extent that you can lift him by saying he has no control over his company cutting overtime, and I would throw a practical encouragement in here. If I were talking to your husband right now, the path to him being a law enforcement officer, besides paying off the debt and getting financially stable, is the hottest job economy we've seen in the history of this country.

And because of his loan finance experience and skill set, he needs to be looking at it as a bridge to pay off the debt as getting a better job in the finance sector. That's the next step, more income. He's going to feel better about about himself and you're bringing in more income and you get out of that place because that place is killing him yeah so i think you know it really is yeah and i think you just start talking about listen if you keep doing what you've been doing you're going to keep getting what you've been getting it's true something's

got to change and so the only thing i know to do is continue to try to talk about it in this setting and if you can't get some kind of movement and some kind of agreement uh if he's going to sit in a corner uh then you've got to seek some help you guys got to seek some marriage counseling sit down with your pastor and start trying to get somebody to speak life over the two of you and get this thing moving because it's all swirling so fast around you it's all spun up and out of control i can hear it in your voice and um the good news is i know when you guys get on a game plan uh that you can do this so hold on we're going to send you a copy of ken coleman's book for your husband from paycheck to purpose

and we're going to put you guys into Financial Peace University, and Kelly's going to sign you up for that in Ramsey Plus. I'll give you everything you need to turn this around, but then you guys got to go do it. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Author of the number one bestseller, From Paycheck to Purpose, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Patrick and Chelsea are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Fantastic. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Just north of Austin, us. Hey, guys. How are you? Fantastic. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Just north of Austin, Texas.

Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And all the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? $265,000. Woo! How long did that take?

Just under six years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Around 85 to around 175. And this year it will be north of 200. Wow. Nice job. What do you all do for a living? So I'm in education sales for a data and analytics company, and Chelsea works harder than I do.

She stays at home with these three kids. Oh, okay. All right. So the data sales business is going better and better and better. It's a good time for that. Absolutely. Good for that. Absolutely. Good for you, man. So I'm going to guess and say with that amount of money and that number of years that that's the house?

Yes, it is. You paid off your house! Talking to weird people! How old are you two? I am 39. And I'm 44. And you have a paid-for house. We've got a paid-for house.

You're weird. Feels good. I love you. You're awesome, man-for house. We've got a paid-for house. You're weird. Feels good. I love you. You're awesome, man. So very cool. Good for you. Good for you. So what starts you guys on a paid-off house journey six years ago?

Boy, I tell you what, it starts a long time ago. So I remember sitting in the church around 2001, watching a video, a financial peace video, maybe a live event. And we were dating at the time and i started talking to her so chelsea we if we're going to get married we need to think about this and so we started talking about this she said wait get married she said what and so fast forward we got married we paid off her student loan uh we bought this house about six little over six years ago with a goal of paying it off in 15 years 15 year fixed rate mortgage we said maybe we could do it in 10 and uh we had some good things happen we had some challenges along the way

and uh what do you know almost you know six years later and here we are wow you guys fit the template exactly i mean the typical person going through total money makeover financial piece, they get their home paid off in about seven years. It's not unusual at all. Well done. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. What's this house worth? Boy, it's gone high now.

It's about $615,000. Oh. And you've been investing all this time. We have been. So your baby steps millionaires then. So I don't want them to hear that. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. It's a secret. Yeah, there's no way you're not that's awesome way to go thank you well done how much have you gotten investments we've got

around 450 right now in investments all right so you're bumping a million two million three then well done thank you i love it that's what happens when you're sitting in church yes it's one of the benefits i like it so i'd love to hear the story and everybody just heard dave say this is on track you guys are right on track a little bit ahead of the average there but it's interesting that you set out for the 15 year and then you're like i think we do it 10 and then i think we can do it sooner than that you end up doing it you know really in six years. So what happens emotionally? I'd love for the audience to hear from you all. What happens as you begin to see that momentum and you realize we can get there faster?

I think something that was cool for me was our kids got old enough to realize what was happening. And they really pushed us. Like they were getting involved. They were wanting to you know be a part of it and um for me it was not just okay we're gonna do this in 15 years we're gonna just do you know it was it was you know grind it out my 12 year old knows knows what a mortgage is and that i didn't know what a mortgage was i don't even know if i knew what one it was in college so it's crazy that she's talking about our mortgage and you know um and not having one

anymore and it's it that so you were going to say something sorry no i was going to say you know in 2015 in december i lost my job and it was a scary time and thankfully we had a fully funded emergency fund in place and thankfully i have this incredible wife beside me that has that has encouraged me and supported me they have a married way up she's an incredible woman i'm so blessed to be here standing beside her today but she supported me and we clawed out of that situation and you know six years later we saw the hope we saw we could do it we started to believe and as we got closer these kids started getting involved they started getting excited to see the

look on their faces and to realize we have an opportunity to change their family tree they've been a part of the giving as we've gone through this and it's exciting it's exciting to see where we've come from and where we can go wow and i think what happens too and you tell me if i'm wrong because sometimes people say oh well the math you use just doesn't wow and i think what happens too and you tell me if i'm wrong because sometimes people say oh well the math you use just doesn't work and i always tell people because the math we use always works because it's never the way we met when you map it out because when you mapped out paying that house off in 10 years or 11 years you did that at your income at that time you didn't anticipate in that math that your income was going to go you know from 85 to 185

hello you know and so yeah you look at that and you go we ought to be able to put a big yeah and a little more yeah and a little more yeah and and all of a sudden you're going we're gonna knock this out and you start to see the math and and there's there's it's a weird thing but there's actually hope in math yes yes that's right you's right. You know, what's interesting, too, is I hope people hear this. The kids got involved because you were letting them see it, hear it, and then they began to get involved, and that gave you some extra juice is what I'm hearing. It really did.

They've been asking for three years, when are we going to pay off the house? When are we going to pay off the house? When are we going to Nashville? That's come up many times, I can tell you. They've wanted to come here for a long, long time. So this is a highlight for us and a highlight for them. But they've been excited.

They've been, you know, throughout this with Give, Save, and Spend. They've been a part of it. They've sat down. They've seen us budget. And they've wanted to be here. And so it's really been fun to see their spirit, to see them change and see the things that we can do. We were able to give some money at Christmas, and they were able to be a part of that. And so it's really fun to see the excitement in their eyes.

Does change your family tree, not just the math part, not just the fact that we have some wealth, but the kids are changed. They're different. Like she said, you don't know what a mortgage was in college, but now I've got a 12-year-old who knows we don't have one. That's pretty cool. That's a change in your family tree. It's what that means. That's how you do it. And this is how rich people handle their money is they teach their kids about money, and they teach them about the importance of wealth, and they teach them about the responsibility around it.

And that's what this whole family is doing. They're incredible. Well, you guys are rock stars. This is absolutely powerful. Thank you. So proud of you thank you dave i'll say that we i want to give glory to god because we never thought this was possible we didn't know how we were going to do it we had a goal and god's been faithful he has blessed us beyond all we could imagine and uh we are just so thankful for you and your team and the opportunity to be here today we're thankful for you man you guys are why we're here. So powerful.

Blessed, blessed, blessed. This is so fun. Well, we've got a copy of your autobiography, Baby Steps Millionaires, and I'll give you a copy of that, and you can share that with friends and family that don't think it can be done

because lots of people are actually doing this. Lots and lots and lots of them are doing this. And now a number one bestseller. So also a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away and stir someone up and get them started on the whole process because you can't keep from talking about it

once you have a little bit of success in this. Not to brag, but to brag on what God has done and to brag on his principles work and to brag on this cause and effect thing that when you plant corn, you grow corn. Yeah, you guys are amazing. Well done. Thank you. Very, very well done. All right, let's bring the kiddos in.

What are their names and ages? So McKenna is 12. That's McKenna. Miranda is 10. And Mabry is 1. All right. Go, Mabry. Valentine.

She's got the Valentine jammies on. Yeah, we're ready. All right, Patrick and chelsea and the team from austin texas 265 000 paid off in six years making 85 to 175 and baby steps millionaires count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two. We're dead free! Since that 12-year-old was six, they've been talking about this. Boom! That's legacy day.

Boom! That's how you do it right there, man. That's exactly how you do it. And that's why we come down here every day. Man. Powerful stuff. how you do it and that's why we come down here every day man powerful stuff the point for you watching and you listening is you too can do this that wasn't an easy trip they've been on it was just a trip worth taking yes this is the ramsey show We'll be right back. Ken Coleman Ram Ramsey Personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show. We talk about careers and work as my co-host today.

Taking your calls about your work, your career, your money, your relationships. It's all right here on The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Michael is with us in Morristown, New Jersey. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hi, Dave and Ken. How are you guys? Great, man.

How can I help? So, student loan question again. No surprise there. I'm 26 years old, and I believe that I have a student loan from my first year at college before I transferred, and private school, expensive. And so this student loan was taken out under my mother's name. It's no attachment to me, nothing on my credit score or anything for that. And, you know, after seeing how expensive this private

school was, I had transferred out and everything, and then the rest of my college was cash flowed. So, yeah, it's under her name. And after all that, I see that it is about $50,000 in student loans. And what they had, my mother and my father told me was they had half of that uh in cash but then we still have this loan and if that's true that's great but i don't want them to be dealing with this loan if it's mine for my school i just wanted to know your guys opinion on that okay sounds like it's a Parent PLUS loan. I think it might be. That's the only way you can take out a student loan for your kid.

Otherwise, it would be in your name. What do you make, Michael? I make $75,000. Okay, good. What do you do for a living? I am a financial analyst. Good. What debt do you have other than this issue?

Other than this, nothing, actually. I'm recently in the news zone. We're trying to also cash flow a wedding and buy a house, but right now, my fiance and I are actually living with my parents. Oh, okay. Okay, cool. When do you get married? Next July. A year from July? Yes, 2023. Okay, all right. So it doesn't sound like you can mathematically address this issue today anyway.

Right. today anyway right so i think i might be able to because i do have about 30 000 saved up for uh just in my bank account right now and then also have about 20 000 in 401k well you can't really access the 401k as you know right unless i get hit with a huge tax break but like that's well no you just quit your job you can't cash out a 401k while you know um right unless i get hit with a huge tax break but like that well no you just quit your job you can't cash out a 401k while you still work there um well these are from prior from prior jobs or prior companies that i was with okay yeah you would get hammered with taxes and i would not suggest that yeah any circumstances so but you told me you're trying to cash flow a wedding. Yes, that as well. And where is that money coming from? Also coming from working between my fiancée and I, yes. And what does she make?

She makes about $60,000. Okay. All right. Well, your parents are not bothering you about it. You're just worried that you might accidentally be shirking your responsibility, even though it's never really been stated one way or the other in your family. The issue of responsibility between you and your mom and dad is not real clear. Legally, it's not yours. But morally, they haven't said they expected you to, and you haven't really

talked about it right so actually right before uh covet and these interests were you know deferred i was making some payments on it and you know with what that was and what the interest was wasn't much to it and then i haven't made a payment to that one since um or to that since so what does the discussion with your parents sound like you randomly paying payments on something they think they owe not even if they think they owe it is for me and they had mentioned that they would also help with that but they haven't helped with that yet and again morally I'd love to take care of that because it was for my school, I believe.

So, yeah, that's what it is. Okay, I thought you were asking if you should take care of it. You've already made the decision. I made the decision, yeah. Of course, morally, I'd love to take care of it. Okay. Well, then you just put it in your lineup. You've got a wedding, and you've got a student loan,

and you've got a house purchase. I'll help you with this. The house purchase is down the line past the other two the wedding's probably in front and then we'll address the student loan okay sounds like you need to cash flow the wedding get the budget together and put that money in the wedding account boom boom ken what are you seeing am i missing something yeah i agree i think you've got this thirty thousand dollars set aside so how much of that are you planning to use for the wedding? Or do you think you can cash flow your part of the wedding cost from your paycheck? Or is mom and dad going to put up $25,000 that they've still got set aside half of it?

That was mentioned earlier in the conversation. You put up $25,000 and call it a day. You're done. That's what I'm hoping we can end up doing as long as we both agree on that now but um again like i was saying i morally i would just feel like this was for my school i should take well it's okay for mom and dad to pay for part of your school right that's not immoral i paid paid for my kid's school, 100% of it. I didn't pay for any of it.

I saved up. They had a college fund. They went to college. And if your mom and dad had $25,000 to put towards your college, and in this situation the way that manifests itself is it goes towards this loan, and then you pick up the rest of your college, you cash-float it, and you've knocked the other $25,000 of this out, you have done nothing morally or ethically wrong.

Now, does that mean your mom and dad can't eat next week if they do that? No, no, it definitely does not mean that. Okay, all right. So I'm going to sit down and have a real clear conversation with them and your fiancé sitting at the table, and all four of you at dinner table, and just say, hey, I want to do what's right here. I feel like I owe this. At one time you said you wanted to put up $25,000.

If you want to do that towards my education and I put up $25,000, we can call this a day. The stupid loan's gone, and then we'll sit down and budget for the next year and a half and be ready for this wedding. Yep. Okay, I think that's a great idea. And then once you're married, we'll worry about a house. But I ain't worried about a house right now at all. You've got plenty of time on that. This is a conversation with mom and dad.

What are they willing to do? And if they're not, and if they're kicking the can down the road, then he's got to take the lead on it. Well, and your fiancé doesn't need to hold this against them for the next 30 years because it was unclear. So it's good for her to sit at the table, too. I agree. I like that. Lots of just play all the cards face up on the table.

Lots of clarity. There's a lot of fuzziness around the edges of what you all think about this. And it's kind of unsaid things. And the danger of that, Dave, is when everybody has got their own thought on clarity, but no one is uniformly clear. We're not all clear together. We start to fill in that gap with our own thoughts but feelings get in there it's like whoa whoa whoa let's make sure everybody knows what we're thinking and then that clarity provides beautiful boundaries and a plan clarity is usually uh feels awkward feels

stressful uh feels almost like conflict that's. But it actually avoids more relational problems than it creates. And so lots of real clear, calm, kind, noble conversation. Listen to what the other side is saying. This is what. And then come to a conclusion that this is the plan. And then this is what we're going to do. And then there's no, you don't have to worry about it again. So it's just a matter of execution.

And so we come into alignment, we level set. What are all these phrases we throw around out here is, but I mean, this thing on clarity, it's the unsaid is just devastating in this type of relationship. And, folks, this is the reason you don't do these loans, by the way. You get everybody all twisted up like a freaking pretzel. I mean, it just messes with relationships. So true. Yeah.

Loan, you want to lose a friendship? Loan your friend money. You know, the old joke is if you don't want your brother-in-law to speak to you, if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it? You know, that's the old joke, you don't want your brother-in-law to speak to you if you loan your brother-in-law a hundred dollars and he never speaks to you again was it worth it you know that's the old joke right i love my brother-in-laws but um everywhere across america people are going well i think i'm gonna make a small loan to my brother-in-law i think i gotta i think i gotta plan for valentine's here no don't do that please no that's not but i mean the point is it puts stress on everything and there's all this fuzz in the air. And that's what we're hearing here.

You can feel it. You can feel it. So lots of clarity, crisp, clear, precise, and then execute. This is The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.