The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Attack Our $700,000 Debt? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 20, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. John starts off this hour in Illinois. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for talking to me. Sure. What's up? So in November, my wife is going to be going from 40 hours to 20 hours. In the last couple of years, we've managed to pay off all our unnecessary debt, but our house and then we got 45,000 left on two credit cards, a thousand on one and about 35 or 3500 on another. We currently have about one month of emergency funds. $4,500 or $4,500?

Oh, I said that wrong. $4,500. Okay. All right. You gave me the right numbers. Yep, sorry. That's okay. And we currently have only about one month emergency funds saved up.

I wanted to know, with her still currently uh both of us full-time combined we make about a hundred thousand a year um should we chew off the last of that credit card debt or should i work on getting three months or more emergency fund built up before she goes to part-time which do you think i should do first why is she goes to part-time. Which do you think I should do first? Why is she going to part-time in December? She's going to go to part-time because currently our children have to do before- and after-school care, and she wants to be home with the kids when they get home from school. I got it.

So why isn't she doing that in September? Because the position at the hospital for her to go part-time isn't going to be open until then. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Okay, good. And how much do you make? I make currently about $52,000 a year. So about half of it's her, so you're going to lose about 25% of your income.

Yes, sir. Okay. You're going to go from $100 down to about $75. Yes, sir. Okay. You're going to go from $100 down to about $75. Yes, sir. And so you're making about $8,300 a month. You should be taking home $6,800 or so. Does that sound right? Yeah, that sounds about right.

Okay. From now until Christmas, and you can't pay off $4,500 and save some money? I guess that's a good point. Yeah. we don't hold money we don't own money on cars or anything yeah so i mean get yourself on a really tight written budget that both of you are in agreement on this is a good move for your family she wants to do it i agree with the move let's do it with wisdom and that has three parts to it one you clear off the debt two you build the

emergency fund that you called to ask about both of those things and the third thing is you guys need to practice living on 75 okay so if you can live on 75 that frees up enough money between now and christmas which is what you got to live on anyway starting in january that frees up enough money between now and christmas to do the other two things we're talking about. Okay, makes sense. So if you'll practice living on 75, because if you don't practice doing that, you're going to have a problem in January. Good point.

So let's just kind of set your budget up as if she was already part-time, throw all the balance at the credit cards and then at savings, and you'll be there. You don't want to try to build savings to cover the fact that she could took a cut in income the fact that she took a cut in income is just going to slow down some of your other goals but it's not you're not going to your emergency funds not to cover overspending okay anything over 75 000 a year is going to be overspending starting in january it's a good move you're doing the right thing let's just do it with wisdom too many times people keep living at the level they used to live at after they make a good family decision to cut back on hours. And you can't keep living like that. You have to cut back

on your lifestyle to go with the cutback in hours. But it's a good trade-off. Ernesto is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Ernesto. How are you? Good, good, sir. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Listen, sir, I have a question for you in regards to my wife and her starting to work. She's been working in school as a sub for about the last three or four years, and she's been doing such a good job that here recently she received a full-time offer as an aid. We've been together for about 10 years, and I've been the primary source of income in our household for that time. And here we're getting close to reaching one of our goals, which is to pay off our house.

We don't have any debt with our vehicles. We don't have any debt on credit cards, nothing. And I'm seeing that, you know, I've been kind of waiting on her to approach me to say, you know, can I contribute something? Can I help you, you know, with a bill or even maintenance on a vehicle? And I haven't seen that she's done that. So I'm trying to find a way to kind of approach her and see if we can reach this goal together, because by my calculations, if everything I've done up until this point is correct, we should have enough money to pay our house off within the next year. But if she were to help me out...

Wait a minute. Let's stop a second. Y'all aren't roommates. No. You're husband and wife. So she doesn't need to approach you and offer to pay part of the bills. We need to sit down and look at our household income, and we need to decide what our household goals are. She has a vote.

You have a vote. I think you have a good plan but it needs to be her plan too but you don't have your money she's got her money when you walk down the aisle the preacher said and now you are one in the old vows and the old vows in the book of common prayer it said not only for richer for poorer in sickness. It said, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge. You are now one. And so it's not two separate people anymore. It's one household income.

An example is this. My wife has not earned an income outside the house in 34 years. And yet the bazillion bank accounts that we have she's on all of them when we discuss our money that i earned it's our money all of it the decision she has an equal vote an equal say um unequal influence and that's the thing dave and i'm with you 100 it's uh it's the fact that she i really i'm honestly i don't know how much money she's made uh in in her in her job because she has a separate account well that's that needs to stop it needs to stop yeah not because you're an overbearing jerk uh but if it was a lady calling me and her husband said it i would say that needs

to stop it's not not a man woman thing it's a we thing when you're married you're french we we and you guys need to you need to work on that so it's an opportunity for you guys to grow after 10 years of marriage in your relationship this is an area that's been lacking let me tell you how important this is it's very important in your relationships because it forces you to make decisions together, number one. Number two, all the data points that we have on people who build wealth, there are very few of them, like almost 0%, who are able to build wealth without their spouses pulling with them, making decisions with them. You don't drag along someone. You don't run two separate lives. And, you know, we're roommates.

We're a joint venture. We're not a marriage. I don't see any of those people building wealth. You can do it if one of them is just extremely passive, but it's just toxic. Work together. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. If you do this one simple thing that we all do, you are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for. Do you ever use public Wi-Fi?

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Download it today from your app store and be secure in seconds. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Anthony is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Anthony. How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Not a whole lot. I just want to thank you for everything you do, first off. Thank you. Second off, I'm getting started. I'm getting ready to start my total money makeover. I'm about three quarters of the way through your book. I just got out of school to be a welder, and I am starting up my second time with the same company that I got hired on with right out of school. My question for you is, would you consider increasing this baby step one from a thousand dollars to maybe fifteen hundred dollars if my income was not consistent like it is now? I just recently got laid off in the last three months and didn't have any, I didn't find you before.

So in the time that I've laid off, been laid off, I found you. And so now I'm getting ready to start. And I'm wondering if that would be a good idea. How much notice do you usually get? Well, this was interesting. I actually was told I was going to be pretty much working throughout those three months, but this particular case I got told formally that I was laid off only about a month ago. So it was kind of a tough situation.

They gave you what? How much notice? They gave me, well, they really didn't give me any notice that i was laid off let's walk in said you're done today what's that they walked in said you're done today uh yeah i i went for vacation they told me i would have work when i came back and uh i didn't so the new gig you got is it more stable well it's the same company that's the issue oh that's what i'm kind of curious about. Are you on a contract, or are they just hiring fire just randomly like this?

It's not really on contract or anything. I don't really have a set time that I'm going to be working for them. They give me certain jobs to go to. I travel for work. I have a job coming up for about uh six weeks and then after that it's not really anything guaranteed okay all right so it is kind of like a contract and that you're going on by project by project is the only uh only uh security you have correct other than other than you could change companies and land something as a welder steady for somebody else, right?

Correct, correct. All right, cool. And you're single? I am. What do you make a year? Well, in the last six months, I calculated about $20,000. So if you double that, about $40,000. Right.

Inconsistently, that's my issue. Okay. I would, I don't think $1,500 is enough. Okay. I would, I don't think $1,500 is enough. Okay. I'd go the other way, and I don't know that it's necessarily a baby step one thing. I always hesitate to raise baby step one up. Instead, it's more of I'm not ready to start my total money makeover until my income is stabilized. Okay. And do you anticipate being in a position in the future year and a half or two years

where your income stabilizes and is predictable? Well, I'm hoping I can be on with this company for longer. They have stable employees. It's just I'm getting started with them. I'm an apprentice. So they basically bring on people and take off people as they need them. Yeah, last in, first out. Right, exactly.

Yeah, so once you get some seniority, you'll be a little more stable. Correct, correct. If you can survive the volatility. Okay, so for now what I would do is pay minimum payments on my debt, and let's just build up some savings. Okay. And let's just pretend we're in the middle of an emergency, and we don't really start the baby steps until we get out of the emergency.

In other words, in your case, we're going to say when it stabilizes, we'll push play, and I'd probably clean that savings out down to $1,000 and really throw it at your dad, right? But in the meantime, I'd just pile up some money because you've just got a really erratic situation here, and it changes the way you think and what jobs you take and all that kind of stuff because, you know, you're so broke, it leaves you vulnerable, you know.

Right, right. So how much debt have you got? Well, I've got about $35,000, ranging about $12,000 in credit cards, about $17,000 in student loans, and about $6,000 from parents. No car? Go ahead. No car? Nope.

I have a used car. Good. Okay. Yeah, just pay your minimums on everything, and let's pile up some cash. When things stabilize in the next eight or ten months, you can this starts to be a little bit more predictable you feel less vulnerable then i would you know i would step on it and let's push play pull that money out of there throw it at your debts and start working your debt snowball carla is with us in san antonio texas hey carla how are you hi dave good thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so I've listened to you for a long time. Absolutely love you.

My family loves you. My dad has finally come to me and asked for help asking about long-term care insurance. He's financially stable, and we looked into long-term care, and he was just kind of upset about it being, say, $350 a month, and then when that time comes, it only covers about three and a half years. That's about normal. Okay, and that we just, I guess we've never really dealt with this yet, so he was curious if maybe he put money of his own into, say, an annuity

or something to where it grows to that pool of money of what they were kind of saying. Yeah, if you had enough money set aside, you could self-insure through this. But in the meantime, he needs insurance. Okay. So he's got about $450,000 cash. Is he single? No, married. Okay.

Well, here's what normally happens. The normal thing is 70% of the men are pre-deceased their wives. Right. So he typically, most of us, 75% of us die before our wives if we're of similar age, especially that kind of a thing, right? So he goes into a nursing home, uses up $350,000 of the $450,000 and dies and leaves her almost broke or broke. So Papa goes in the nursing home, scrambles and cracks the nest egg, right,

and leaves Mama in trouble. That's what I don't want. He's got a good nest egg, but he ain't got $2 million. Well, he's got land also. Well, is he going to sell that? Is she going to sell that to survive? That's what we were kind of saying is that he needs to come up with a plan and see what he wants to do.

What's the land worth? Because it's like $3 million. Okay. Well, if he wants to commit to selling that upon going into a nursing home, is it a family farm or what? Yeah, yeah. So it's like one of your calls last week. Yeah.

Third generation. family farm or what yeah yeah so it's like one of your calls last week yeah third third generation but yeah they're not going to be jumping up and down to sell that to so that mama's not broke yeah so okay if he wants to commit to sell a million dollars worth of that upon entry into a nursing home to protect your mom and self-insure good do that okay but i don't think he's going to right i don't think he wants to excel we're just curious after three and a half years then what happens then well if they stayed longer yeah only 24 stay longer than three years okay so the average stay is 2.4 years and uh you know it's just almost never in other words that that you get into it so it's worth it's worth taking care of that first three and a half or four years worth of risk with the nursing home care and it costs you you know it does cost you three to five thousand dollars a year in premiums to get your monthly right you know that that's what

it's going to be and and so the average you you know, the average annual premium is about $2,500. How old is he? 65. Okay. All right. That may be why it's a touch higher. But shop around and get with a broker, one of our ELPs. And the average claim lasting more than, the average claim that lasts, if it lasts a year, longer than a year,

it stretches out to about 4.2%, and only 17% of the claims go longer than five years. Okay. And so they would not burn up their nest egg, is my point. Hardly ever would they burn up their nest egg if they had three and a half to four years covered and so that's why we recommend it now again you get three million dollars if he wants to sell a million dollars worth of that property or more upon entry into the nursing home he and your mom commit to doing that in order to make sure she's

okay i don't want her with no money and $3 million for the dirt. That is not a good place to leave her. So only if he'll sell it, then he can self-insure if he wants to. But that's the risk he's taking. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We talk about it daily. Character matters. When I'm looking for team members, I'm looking for men and women who have character. People with character care. They care about the work they're doing and they care about the people around them.

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linkedin.com slash ramsey terms and conditions apply in the lobby of ramsey solutions, Caleb and Molly dropped by. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Been better. Uh-oh. What's going on? How can I help?

We are $700,000 in debt. What? We are farmers from Montana, and we disagree about how to handle it. I am ready to declare bankruptcy, as awful as that would be. He has kind of dragged us through several failed businesses and working it out and making payments just sounds kind of like another scheme to me at this point. And I'm hesitant to get to dive into that and I'm exhausted and we're kind of hopeless and don't really know what to do. Okay.

Break that down for me. How much is owed on the farm? Well, we lease a farm, but we owe about $450,000 on equipment and inputs and such. Okay. And what is the other 300 000 um yeah that would be like oh i owe my dad for some stuff and then how much do you owe your dad 50 000 and then i owe you know for some equipment repairs and some chemical bills from last year vendor bills yep okay and how much is that?

It probably comes up to $100,000. Okay. That's $600,000. Yep. And then there's another roughly $100,000 lawsuit that we're in over equipment repair that we rented, I don't know, four or five years ago now.

What is that lawsuit about? Some repairs that were done to a machine that we rented, I don't know, four or five years ago now. What is that lawsuit about? Some repairs that were done to a machine that we rented, and I disagreed with all of them. You rented it, and then they said you broke the machine, so they did the repairs and sued you for them? Yep. I got you. Okay. All right.

And so in a sense, other than the 50K with your dad, this is all business debt in a sense. I mean, you've signed personally for it, but it's all business debt, and you've leased the farm. Okay. You're still operating the farm? Yep. Okay. And so she wants to file bankruptcy. What's your plan?

Sell a bunch of equipment and get out of the debt. Or, I mean, get out as much of the debt as possible and work out settlements with everybody. Yeah, how would you work it out? I mean, how are you going to make money? Well, I have a truck. I do some trucking in the wintertime. But the bank won't guarantee that we can keep the truck or any vehicles. You won't in bankruptcy either. Right. Right. Okay. And so you quit farming and drive the truck to pay off the

bills and sell off the equipment as your plan. Is that what you're saying, Caleb? Okay. All right. Okay. And, but part of the equipment is the truck, and what is the truck worth? Probably only $30,000. So it's an 18-wheeler tractor? Yeah. Okay. All right. Is it reliable?

Yeah. In good shape? Mm-hmm. Okay. What can you make driving a truck? Oh, it's so variable, but anywhere from $80,000 to $150,000 a year. Okay. Y'all got kids?

Yep. Three. You talking about being over Y'all got kids? Yep. Three. You talking about being over the road with that truck? Yeah, I'm usually gone two weeks at a time and only home for a day once in a while. But that's only in off-season when you're not farming, right? Right. Right now. And what we're talking about here is you're doing that full-time.

Right. You'll be gone all the time. Yep. Okay. All right. Let's pretend you filed bankruptcy and you walked away from everything. Tossed everybody the keys. Clean start.

Fresh. Done. What are you going to do for a living then? Go get a job at a farm or something like that, I suppose. How old are you? 30. Okay. What were the other failed businesses?

We did custom harvesting primarily. Custom harvesting? Yeah. We owned the combines. Oh, I see. And go to Texas and back and cut for farmers. And that didn't work? No.

Okay. And the other business? That's about it, I guess. There's one other business as well? So, Molly, you were exaggerating when you said several businesses. Well, it feels like several. There's been... It's two.

Well, in the farming, and we were in business with his family, too, for a while. Did that go bad? Yes. It went bankrupt? It's a partnership that sunk. Okay. All right. And that was a different business?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, it was the same stuff, just in partnership with them. Okay. Well, it's the same stuff, just in partnership with that. Okay. So, Caleb, what I am hearing is that you have attempted to do the farming business the way a lot of people have attempted to with large piles of debt three different times in three different ways. Mm-hmm. Have you figured out this ain't working? Yeah.

Okay. Because if you go back in debt in the farming business again, I'm going to find you and kick your butt. Because after three times, you've got to figure out this ain't working. Really. I mean, the combine thing, the reason it went down is you had big freaking combine payments. The reason the partnership on the business failed is you had big equipment payments. And now you've got it again. Because you've got in your head the way you grew up that this is the only way to do farming.

And it's not the only way to do farming because it's not working. And your problem is you're not an unusual story. I deal with farmers all the time that are dealing with what you're dealing with. It's very difficult. Farming is, to start with, very hard work, unbelievable hard work. But on top of that, it's very difficult to do it with these big freaking equipment payments. It's almost impossible to make it. And yet farmers still, you know, Dave Ramsey doesn't understand farming.

No, I understand business. I understand business and math. And farming is a business, and math does not get an exception because you are feeding America. And we appreciate you feeding America. But patriotic stuff aside the freaking math has to work and that's the problem here what will the equipment bring oh i would say roughly 450 000 you think it'll bring enough to pay it all off

uh well not quite. No. We'd be about $100,000 short. Okay. So more like $350,000. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. And so basically that's going to leave you about $350,000 if you sold off the equipment

that you have to settle and clear making 100 driving truck and feeding three kids. Okay. So I'm guessing you can probably settle most of that, not counting your dad, for about probably 10, 20 cents on the dollar. It's going to take some negotiation. But, I mean, you probably settle $100,000 vendor bills for 25,000 bucks is my guess. Okay. And so if you do that at, say, 25 cents on the dollar and you sell off the equipment, you know, we basically got it's going to take you about 100, 100, 100 and some change to get out of debt. Can you do that? Making 120? Yeah. But you're not going to see your family for two years. That's what you're giving up. Or you got to find another career that's different than driving a truck that's going to make you similar money. Okay?

I don't care which one you do. This just doesn't sound very fun. Sounds like a very tough thing to go through. So are you guys in a good church? Yep. Good. Okay. Make sure you're sitting down with your pastor and talking about your marriage

as soon as you get home, and start doing that once every two weeks. Have a checkup. Okay. Make sure you're sitting down with your pastor and talking about your marriage as soon as you get home. And start doing that once every two weeks. Have a checkup. Okay. Because this stuff, Sharon and I were right where y'all were. It'll destroy your life. It'll destroy your marriage. And it's not worth it.

It's just stuff. Okay. I could go either way if I'm you, but you both got to be up for whichever way it is. Molly, I think you're tired and your tank is empty and you ain't got much fight left in you. And you've lost confidence in his ability to do math. And some of that's valid. All of that's valid, actually.

But if I were in your all shoes, the way I look at bankruptcy, I look at it like a divorce. I try everything first to not do that. And so let's try some stuff. But it has to have a plan. And, Caleb, for her to go along with that, she's going to have to see a detailed plan. And she's going to have to have, like, you're going to have to have a new tattoo right inside your arm that says, I don't freaking borrow money for anything ever again the rest of my life, no matter what my stupid family says.

That tattoo right there on the inside of your arm, you got it? Because you can't ever, because she's done, man. She's going to give you, you know, she's going to stick with you, but she's done with this process of going deeply in debt. Is that fair, Caleb? Sure is. Yeah. So she'll run with this process of going deeply in debt. Is that fair, Caleb? Sure is. So she'll run with you on this. She'll put some gas back in her tank. If she can see that we're going to give this a hard run,

and she'll handle the kids while you're on the road a little bit if we got a hard run, and you sell off this stuff, but only if you never go back. That was Sharon's and me. We said never again. Never again. And we stayed married. We about killed each other, but we stayed married. Thanks for dropping us, America. Glad you're here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

Common sense for your dollars and cents. Joan's with us in Baltimore. Hi, Joan. How are you? I'm fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I cents. Joan's with us in Baltimore. Hi, Joan. How are you? I'm fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I took your financial peace class in the fall and learned so much, and I'm about ready to start my first class on Sunday, as a matter of fact. And the sad part about it is I can't convince my rockhead daughter to like, listen to these lessons that I've learned. She just graduated from college. She has student loan debt. She's got about $4,000 in credit card debt. She just got a car, et cetera. And she wants it all and she wants it now, but that doesn't work. And so i'm trying to get her to um like rework her budget and try to come up with a way to like knock this debt out while she's still living with me because i don't want that to happen for too much longer and um i i um was wondering if you could probably

you know try to help me and give her like an estimate like two years three years you know, try to help me and give her, like, an estimate, like two years, three years, you know, but she's obviously got to stick with it. Well, she doesn't even want an estimate. Well, she doesn't, but, you know, she will listen if I, you know, if I give her some hard numbers. Really? She hasn't listened before? Why would she now? I don't know. I keep praying and hoping.

How old is she?? I don't know. I keep praying and hoping. How old is she? She's 25. Okay. And what does she make a year? She just started. She's making $30 a year. Okay. And how much does she borrow on her car?

Okay. So the car is $15,000. Okay. And how much is her student loans? Her student loans are $15,000. Okay, and how much is her student loans? Her student loans are $46,000. Okay, all right. And then she has about $4,600 in credit cards. $4,600. $4,600 or $46,000?

Oh, no, $4,600. Okay, so $65,000, making $30,000 a year. And she bought a car she couldn't afford against your wishes. Are you married? Well, actually, I'm a widow. Okay. What do you mean actually? Actually what?

You know, actually, she was actually in a car and totaled it, so she didn't want to have to buy a car, but, you know. Nobody told her she had to buy a $15,000 car. Oh, well, true. I tried to get her to buy like a $6,000, like what the insurance was going to pay her car but you know nobody told her she had to buy a fifteen thousand dollar car oh well true i tried to get her to buy like a six thousand like what the insurance was on a pair but you're right yeah so she bought a car she couldn't afford because you can't afford a fifteen thousand dollar car when you make thirty thousand dollars a year with forty six thousand dollars in student loan debt that's insanity right so she and then she's making a mistake of putting like 300 into savings and of course then she doesn't have enough money at the end of the month

and winds up pulling it back out again. So I'm trying to tell her to put $1,000 in. I have a 26-year-old son, okay? But if he were in exactly this situation with exactly these behaviors, or if one of my daughters were in exactly this situation with exactly these behaviors, here's how we would handle it at the Ramsey house. Okay? That's how I know how to answer questions. What would I do if I were in your shoes?

Okay? I would sit down and say, I am really sorry. I've not done a good job making sure you knew how to handle money, and you are making so many mistakes, it terrorizes me for your future. I love you, and I'm so scared for your future because you are being unbelievably stupid. And it's my fault because I didn't teach you, so I'm apologizing to you for that. That's the good news. The bad news is that I'm going to start requiring some things of you for your own good.

And so if you are going to stay here under my roof, you are going to do two things. You're going to put your car up for sale and move into a car that you can afford, and you're going to go through Financial Peace University. If you're unwilling to do that, you have 30 days to move. And I would throw her out And I would throw her out. I would throw her out.

Maybe that's the only way she'll actually get the message. Yeah, because you're enabling her. Right. You're participating in her crazy when you give her a free place to live while she's being stupid. Right. And it's not good for her. It's not not harming you and i'm not suggesting you be mean i'm suggesting you be very kind gentle but firm because the question you need to ask yourself

anytime you're dealing with anyone you love is how can i help them be the best version of themselves five years from now and 10 years from now is it to make them uncomfortable today so that they stop doing self-destructive behavior? The answer is yes. I want to make them uncomfortable today so they stop doing self-destructive behavior. You know, when my kids were teenagers, I used to remind them all the time, my job is not to be your friend, and so I really don't care if you're mad at me. Okay. I've got to get that tough.

Yeah, I can live with you being mad at me because I love you so much that I'm not going to participate in your self-destructive behavior. I love you so much I'm willing to let you be angry with me for your own good. Does that make sense? Yes, it surely does. It's about you being loving and strong it's not about you being a bully or mean or yelling or calling somebody names or something like that this is just well that's not my mo anyway i know and i can tell you're just you're just a very nice person and i'm trying to say it's okay to be a nice person and also part of being a nice person is to want what's best for everyone and cause it to happen right instead of like trying to fix it you want this

more than she wants it right now yeah that's true that is that's because i can see where it's going to end up with her yeah she's got a decade of pain ahead of her she doesn't change his habits you and i can see that because i've been stupid too hey i've been stupid too i got a decade of pain ahead of her if she doesn't change these habits. You and I can see that. Because I've been stupid, too. Hey, I've been stupid, too. I got a Ph.D. in DUMB. That's how I can see it, you know. You've made mistakes.

That's how you can see it, right? Oh, I've made 63 years worth of mistakes. And I'm just now getting it straight. So, yeah, I don't want to go through what I went through. I would just start it with an apology. I wish I had taught you better. I't know i'm so sorry and i love you and i love you so much that i am at this point i'm no longer going to participate in your decisions that are going to bring you harm i love you so much i'm not going to give you a drink you're an alcoholic

i'm not going to participate in your behaviors that are going to bring you harm. And so you're going to start doing some smart things with money for your own good, or you're going to be on your own figuring it out because I'm not going to give you a place to live if you're going to be crazy. And it's not because I don't love you. It's because I do love you. And this is how the conversation goes. And that's how it would go down at the Ramsey house. Now, I don't know exactly how it'll go down at Jones house. You can decide what you want to do, but that that's, that's how we do it. And, um, and so, you know, but we don't have any grown kids living at home going into debt. We don't have any grown kids

living at home doing drugs. We don't have any grown kids at home that refuse to work. We don't have any grown kids at home. Thank you, Lord. We get to see them when they let us see the babies. That's it. Hey, we've all been there. The book is Smart Money, Smart Kids. Hold on. I'll give you a copy. Joan was written with my daughter, Rachel, and I and her from the grown daughter's perspective who had to endure being Dave Ramsey's daughter. Lord help my children.

Right. And and from the dad's mean old daddy's perspective. Yeah. But it's how to teach your kids how to handle money. Smart money, smart kids, and that way they can grow up and be productive and have a good life because they make better decisions. And it's the stuff we teach them,

those of us that are loving parents, when we know to teach them. And sometimes you don't know what to do, but this is how you teach your kids from age 3 to age 33 how to handle money and how to make these decisions like we're doing right here. Hey, that's tough love. No, it's just love. It's just love.

It's not any kind of love to participate in someone's misbehavior and support it financially that's going to bring them harm. How can you call that love? It's called enabling. It's a toxic behavior. And so it's not tough love. It's just love. And is it tough love? Make your kid brush their teeth so they have some? It's not tough love. Is it tough love to make them do their homework so they can get through school and have an academic ability to do critical thought ability to learn no not tough love no it's just it's just love discipline is part of love guiding people gently firmly lovingly kindly is part of love firmly no is a complete sentence

this is the dave ramsey show Firmly. No is a complete sentence. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, Senior Executive Producer for the show. You know you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone. Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the App Store and download it today.