The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Combat Generational Poverty? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

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Music Music Music Music Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumped, cash is king, and the paid-off home market has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host on the air today, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality,

will be taking your calls about your life and your money. The phone number, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Renee's in Texas. Hi, Renee. How are you? Hi. Good.

Thank you for taking my call. How are you all? Better than I deserve. How are you? Hi. Good. Thank you for taking my call. How are you all? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm a little nervous, a little embarrassed, but I need your expert advice. I've been listening to you for years. I am close to retirement age, 10 plus years, and I only have 50 grand in an IRA. I have a teenager. I'm unemployed right now.

I was a substitute teacher until COVID-19. And I would like to invest in real estate to build, to have a sustainable income, a continual residual income, but also build that retirement portfolio as well or build that retirement account. The investment opportunity I'm looking at is going to cost $1,500. That's not a lot, but I just want to know if that's a good move, is real estate a good move for what I want to do. You're not buying real estate for $1,500. You're buying a class on how to get into real estate investing for $1,500?

Yeah. No, not a good move. I don't want to burst your bubble or spoil your dream, but get rich quick in real estate is mythology. I did it. I got rich, and I lost everything because I used the exact formulas that those bozos teaching that class are going to teach you. And I don't even know which bozo it is, but there's a bunch of them out there.

And 100% of the nothing down real estate guys after one decade or less are broke. I've never seen one make it long term. And I've known all of them for decades. I've known all of them. I want you to own real estate if that's your goal. But really, owning real estate is not your goal. What your goal is is you're scared because you don't have any money and you're trying to make some money quick and as soon as i get desperate is right when i get stupid and that's where you're walking here kiddo

so i would not do this no i would back down and i would say i'm going to work on my career and i'm going to focus. I've got 10 years. You're only, what, 50-something years old? Yeah. 55, 54, what? 57. Yeah, 57. So what do you do for a living?

Oh, you were a substitute teacher, but now you're unemployed. Unemployed people don't need to be buying real estate. Real estate will make you broke when you're a broker. That's why they call them brokers. No, that's a bad place to be when you're broke it's a it's a game that you need some cash rolling around in order to not get bit in that world and um i know from personal experience and i know from having walked through thousands and thousands of cases over 30 years of people that do this stuff and so instead what you what you're going to have to be, you cannot be, you remember the old story, the tortoise and the hare?

You're feeling like I hadn't got enough time left, so I've got to be the hare. But every time I read that book, the hare loses. And you've got to go to a slow and steady mindset. And really what you've got more than anything is a career crisis you starving to death as a substitute teacher and so we've got to get your career up and going i'm going to send you a copy of ken coleman's book um the proximity principle and we're going to pay for you as a single mom to go through uh ramsey plus for an entire year so you get in there and you learn

how to handle money and you get your career up and going and you'll solve all this problem without having to dive into a pool hoping that that there's you know it's like grabbing at last straws and that's that's the that that's what's happening down inside of you is causing you to do this i got this a neat ringside seat to a my mom was a stay-at-home mom she had a tiny sewing business every once in a while i wouldn't call it a side hustle it was a half of a side hustle and then took one community college class at the age of 42 took one and then she took one the next semester and then she took one the next semester and she took one the next semester and my stay-at-home mom turned herself into a the the controller at a company that doesn't exist anymore we called it uh enron back in the day and now um at 57, she graduated with a PhD and started teaching college classes.

And now she's a department chair at age 70. That's 15 years. Yes. And so there's this idea that at 57, I'm done. And I've watched this woman have – it used to be 17 Xanax, get on an airplane. And, of course, I'm poking fun at my mom. And now she flies all over the world teaches classes at oxford and ireland she had this whole second half of her life that started at 57 years old and it's still going strong still

going strong and so you can make those decisions these no more decisions or these let's just go get it done right now decisions and you carve your own path, and it's a beautiful, radical, cool thing to watch. It's inspiring. But it is not a get-rich-quick, take-this-pill-this-weekend-for-$1,500, and you're going to have a Jack and the Beanstalk experience because that doesn't happen. It doesn't exist. The problem with the Beanstalk is there's giants up there. That's right.

And you work and you work and you work and you work. Yeah. There's no shortcut to any place that's worth going. Beverly Sills. Hold on, and Kelly will pick up and we'll get you a copy of Ken's book as well as a one-year subscription to Ramsey Plus. And we'll walk with you and help you do something else. And see, I didn't charge you a thing for that.

It was all free for you. Did you notice the difference? There's a difference. Rachel's with us in Wisconsin. Hi, Rachel. How are you? Hey, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My question is more for Dr. D. So I am looking for some advice on how to work on my social anxiety. So whenever I'm the center of a conversation, I like break out into a rash. My heart rate goes up and it gets hard to take deep breaths. So I don't shy away from opportunities where I have to present or anything like that.

But I feel like it's just extra hurdles for me to kind of handle as I'm doing that. Where's that from? I don't know. I feel like I've had that for as long as I'm doing that. Where's that from? I don't know. I feel like I've had that for as long as I can remember. So do you get red neck when everybody looks at you? Your neck breaks out red? I've got several people in my family that that happens to when the conversation turns to them.

That's different than being a redneck. That's exactly right. It's the front of your neck, not the back. It just changes colors. Is that you, Rachel? Yep, that's right. So here's the thing. You nailed it, and you are ahead of the game.

This is an extra hurdle, and it's going to be an extra hurdle, and the only way through this is one ugly, grindy tortoise in the hair is you've got to practice. You've got to put yourself in situations where you have to practice. And over time, your body will stop responding in fight or flight, and you will nail these presentations. That's a great question. Kudos to you for grinding through it, for putting yourself in those positions. I'm proud of you.

That takes bravery. And the weird thing is you'll build your competence and your confidence. And then you'll be unstoppable because you'll have empathy. Right. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and make sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much

and the cheap knockoffs are ugly and really don't protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays is a game changer. With Shady Rays, you can count on premium sunglasses that protect your eyes and are affordable. They give people the best overall value in sunglasses. They also replace your shades with a brand new pair if you lose or break them from day one of your purchase. And they guarantee your sunglasses for life. Plus, they offer an exclusive for Ramsey Show listeners. Go to ShadyRays.com and use the code RAMSEY for 50% off two or more pairs. That's ShadyRays.com, code RAMSEY. so you heard me giving away ramsey plus for a year during these crazy times this could be your never again moment people change their lives when they say never again

never again am i going to be at the mercy of fill in the blank. My own stupidity, global crisis. Most people couldn't spell pandemic six months ago, and now we're all experts on it. Never again will you let the news cycle put you in a panic. And when you have the right plan, the right tools, the right teaching, you never have to question that again. That's what Ramsey Plus is. It's a brand new all-access membership to everything good at Ramsey. And here's what it amounts to. It's got all the teaching in it. You learn with Financial Peace University, the Legacy Journey, our other classes are in there. You learn to budget. You have the budget tool, the world's

best budgeting tool, EveryDollar and EveryDollarSync, which syncs with your spouse, your bank, everything. Everyone knows everything that's going on constantly. It works fabulously. And then you track with the Baby Steps app, which you only get in Ramsey Plus. If you want to get a free trial to Ramsey Plus right now so you can be confident that you're doing the right next steps, we'll help you do that. Go to DaveRamsey.com and start your free trial of Ramsey Plus right now. Taekwon is with us in Pennsylvania. Hey, Taekwon, what's up?

Hey, how you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve, man. How can we help? Hey, so first off, I want to say I love what you do here. I love seeing how you give out such great knowledge to people and how you help them because that's worth way more than money. You know what I mean? Talking to people and giving out

what they need and the time I need. So I want to say I appreciate you for doing that. Thank you, sir. So my predicament, I come from generational poverty like like a long line of poverty in the philadelphia area and that that may be due to like my family's lack of opportunities like i'm the first one to go to college on my mom's side of the family and even on my dad's

side you know it's not a lot of money over there so yeah well you started what you're studying um biology i'm actually pre med my aim is to go to the medical school wow there you go you didn't just bust out you rocket shipped out right but fortunately i give that i give that thanks to my family because one thing about me is that i typically learn from other people like i learned from someone else's mistakes before i bumped my head like i have bumped my head a lot in my life, but the one thing I'll say is that my family has been a great example for me and, you know, helping me not make the same mistakes they have. So transport a little bit that led me to where I am today. So I finished my first year of college

and, um, just so recently I've been reading a lot of financial books. So a lot of my financial goals and a lot of my bad learned financial behavior has been overcome. But where I'm at right now is I want your advice on what you would do in my position. Now, another blessed circumstance is I have a little over $10,000 in my bank account. And, you know, I don't want to buy a car. I don't want to blow this on, like, fancy clothes and shoes. That's just not me. Like, I'm already, like, mature on that level, but where I'm stuck at is I would want to know what to do, you know,

because I don't really have those examples or those direct advisors in my family or around me to say, you know, how to reach that next level of wealth. Okay. Well, I got to tell tell you you're an impressive young man tell you what man high five dude i appreciate it i'm honored to get to talk to you you're uh you're a stud man so the uh uh what i have learned is is i become who i hang around with the bible says be not deceived Evil company corrupts good habits. And Charlie Tremendous Jones was an old motivational speaker back in the 60s, and he used to say, five years from today, you will be where you are

because of the books you read and the people you meet. You become who you hang around with. You talk like them. You walk like them. You watch what they watch. you read what they read, and you eventually begin to think like them if you're not careful. And so it's not to say you are ever snobbish. I'm always kind to anyone at any level or any station or whatever,

but I need the guys that are close to Dave need to be doing stuff at or above the level that I'm doing it in their marriages, with their kids and grandkids, in their careers. And so, you know, my 10 closest friends, you're going to be the average of them over the next decade. So be very intentional about who you surround yourself with, number one. And number two, there is technically, if we understand that, you have already broken the cycle, right?

How did you do that? You did that by adding knowledge into your life. You have information that you didn't have before, and it's caused you to make different decisions than you would have made just based on where you grew up. Me too. John too. You know? The things that we learned on my street, some of them when I was growing up,

some of those were really good life lessons and those were good people. But they would not have enabled me to run a $200 million company. And so for me to get to here, I had to expand my brain, my character, my capacity, my spiritual walk. And I had to be very, very intentional about that. And John had to be very, very intentional to get two PhDs as the son of a police officer. These are things similar to what you're striving towards. And so you'll always honor your heritage. You'll always honor your mom and dad,

but you don't have to emulate the negative decisions that they make or that the people that you grew up with make i don't have to be like them in that regard i always tip my hat to and honor where i came from it's always going to be a part of me and i'm proud of that but there's parts of things i grew up with that i don't need to have anything to do with they're just wrong and so and so that's how you break the bible says be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind and so what you're pouring into your brain is what matters what advice would you give him that's i mean that's it i think finding um finding a group of people that you can like like you said, run with and emulate. And finding, you touched on it, Dave, but finding that balance between honoring where you came from, who you are, who your friends are.

Taekwon, I'm still friends with the same dudes I grew up with on the same street. I talked to those guys. They didn't go to college. They do different things with their life and i know right now if i called them and said hey there's this crazy guy on the radio named david uh ramsay he's trying to hurt me they would say just hang on man we'll be there in 32 hours as soon as we get a bus pass like we'll get there we'll kill him we'll kill him those are those guys right um and they would that is those guys that is those. But I don't call them for financial advice.

And they're probably listening to the show, right? They're not listening to the show. They don't even have a radio. But I don't call them for financial advice, right? They're there, though. They're there. I love them. They are in my soul, and they're in my DNA.

And I don't call them for marriage advice. And so – but I do call them when I need a laugh, and I do call them to check in and see how my brothers are doing. And so it's being able to, like Dave said, to honor your past, honor who you are, honor your DNA, but also know I'm responsible for changing my family tree. I'm responsible for changing my street legacy, the neighborhood that I grew up in. I'm responsible for paying that forward. And so I'm going to surround myself by good people.

I'm going to say yes to mentor opportunities, and I'm going to raise good, hardworking, lovely kids. I got a buddy of mine who's worth about $10 million, Taekwon, and he grew up in a really, really tough inner city neighborhood. And his saying, I love it, he goes, getting out of the hood was easier than getting the hood out of me. And that's from a guy that did it, okay? And so I think that what that says is that I cannot revert to default positions of behavior. I've got to set. And they follow you forever, right? I've got to set new boundaries.

I've got to set new default positions in my behaviors so that I don't act like that. I'm not that guy. But Taequann is asking the question. That's such a gift. I don't treat my kids that way. I don't default to that. But it's there. It's in there.

It's in there. It's in there. It's always going to be in there. Good for you, Taequann, for asking the question. I tell you, I'm so impressed with that guy. What a great guy. Go be a doctor in Nashville, man. Amen. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting

health care costs, whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback, but thanks to Christian Healthcare Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other. CHM is the longest serving health cost sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's Christians helping other Christians, and it shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis.

To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is our co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Appreciate you hanging out, John. Thank you so much for having me. You and I talked all through the break after that last call because there's so much philosophy that is so needed in our culture today. Instead of finger-pointing, a local local pastor is a good friend of mine,

Dr. Easley, spoke this morning for our devotional here, and he said, maturity is no longer blaming your past. You plan your future, and you live, what was the, live in the present?

You own your present. Own the present. You own the present, and you plan your future. You know, when you don't, and I always heard a guy say, after 30, you can't blame your parents anymore. Right.

You know, and so you can't blame your upbringing. You can only honor your upbringing. And so you can't blame it, because if you blame it, then you assume the position of victim. And everyone, under the sound of our voice, has something in their past that if they assume that as their identity would make them a victim. Don't they? Everyone's got.

I love the counseling line is your childhood tragedies become your adult biologies. Right. Say that again. Your childhood tragedies become your adult biologies, right? Say that again. Your childhood tragedies become your adult biologies, right? Biologies? So there's these things that happen to you, these traumas, these victimhoods, that over time you dwell on them. They become some of the brain chemistry that you have.

Oh, the grooves in your brain. Right. So the cortisol. Some of your default brain chemistry, that's right. The way you process something is the cortisol kicks in, you you associate that with fight or flight and you got and you're off to the races right and it changes and you you drop into that default which is a negative behavior right and go bananas you've got to decide the earlier the better this happened these things happened these things were stacked against. These hurdles were laid in my path.

Yes. Yeah, I grew up in a neighborhood where if you didn't like something and were 12 years old, you bust somebody in the nose. You hit them, right? And so, I mean, not metaphorically. No, exactly right. Like, see if you can break their face, right? And got my nose busted a bunch of times. And my eyes blacked a few times and that kind of stuff.

I'm 60 years old. I don't need to be doing that now. That's right. And if that's your default position, anger equals punch equals somebody fall down. Well, it is. Right. It's in there. That's still in there.

But I haven't hit anybody in the nose in a very long time. There you go. But you've worked hard, right? And you've surrounded yourself with people. And I think what I've seen is both sides of this, the conversation, which is I'm entirely a victim or nothing ever happened to you, move on, is there is a level of I've got to understand when I've hurt people, I've understand when I'm continuing to hurt people, and I've got to change that behavior. I also have to understand often people are using the best tools that they have to solve the problems

that are in front of them. And my great granddad may not have had a full bag of screwdrivers and hammers and chisels. He may have had just a hammer. That's what he had, that's what he used, and that's how he loved. And now, yeah, that had some bruises, that had some changes, that had some things that we want to do differently nowadays, and that's cool

and we're learning, but I can continue to refer back to that continue to go back to that or i can honor and move on yeah i mean i can take the positive out of it and say okay i know how to fight but i don't have i can do it metaphorically i can do it intellectually i can even do it legally if i need to uh but i don't have to go around punching people when i was you're 60 years old to go around punching people when i was if you're 60 years old you're still punching people knows you got an issue when i when i i spent a small season training with mma fighters no yeah it was awesome and these dudes little known facts about dr these dudes were they were bad dudes but what was yeah why were you in there right listen

it's a whole other story that's a whole other story um but here's the thing the tougher they were the more gentle and kind and respectful they were everywhere yeah because they had nothing to prove yeah i was talking to a guy played center in the nfl the other day he played for like 14 years he's the most emotionally controlled guy i ever know and he can run over a car and kill it that's he hurt i mean it was like yes that's right he's the most emotionally controlled guy I ever know. And he can run over a car and kill it. That's a hurt car. I mean, it was like, you know what I mean? That's right. He's the size of a freaking Kia.

But he's got nothing to prove, right? So he took his, he got to find out about himself. He became a professional. There you go. That's right. You know, and so in order to execute the job, he did so without losing his temper. That's right. You know, without turning, without mislabeling the aggression.

That's right. And so, but you can make a decision and say, you know i grew up in that neighborhood and so that's how we are right and i used to have a pastor to say some families take uh the family sin and they give it a name like it's a pet uh that's just the way the delonies do it right we just this is how we are yeah we we just speak our mind yeah translation you're freaking rude we're ugly we're mean people yeah that's right you don't take other people's feelings right where it's a badge we're passionate no you're rageaholics that's right right we eat our our sadness like well good man and it's good with what cheerios that's exactly right and And Twinkies and Angel Food Cake. Right?

So you can pass those sins down generationally. Especially if you make them a pet and they're like glorified. That's right. It's a badge of honor. Yeah, it's a badge of honor where I come from. That's right. And for those of you who aren't watching Dave right now, he just puffed his chest up. It was a fascinating read when I learned in psychology that men especially often show, they often express depression in that way.

Depression? Depression is they puff their chest out. Really? They get loud because they don't have the wiring to say, I'm hurting. They don't have the skill set. Nobody's put those tools in their toolkit when they were kids to say, I have never heard that. This hurts.

And so they puff their chest up. And so anytime. I have to be careful doing that now. Anytime I say. Because I'm not depressed. That's why I hug you all the time, Dave, because you just. I'm just kidding. You can just tell I'm sad.

That's right. But. Bless your sweetheart. The body positioning you had was something that we see, right? We see guys go. And women often go step down right and they grab control by by ducking and pulling everybody down with them to this sad little moment and so yeah being able to say here's where i come from here's what i'm going to take

from that and then here's where we're going to go that last caller he's changing not only his family tree but this nation needs that discussion right now. Absolutely. This culture needs that discussion instead of four-year-olds throwing temper fits. Just everybody yelling. Everybody's screaming. Stop. Stop. And anybody that I disagree with has to be labeled a racist or or evil or if you're if you're a woke skinny jean wearer then

all you know all 60 year old southern white guys must be they have to be by definition evil at a minimum they're boomers by the way i am a boomer so by the way it was not a term of derision until about 18 months ago no it used to be It used to be a demographic analysis. It's always been derision, but it's cool. Well, you millennials, what are you, a Gen X-er? I don't know what I am. You're an X-er. Yeah, you've got to be an X-er. That's what you are, I think.

Anybody who says they don't know what I am, I'm just special. Yeah, they're on the border. Yeah, you know the problem with snowflakes is when the heat comes up, they melt special. There we go. Okay. There we go. You're special. That's right. I think you just puffed your chest out when you did that i did i felt it i felt it

i felt it but i'll crap aside this is such a good discussion yeah because everyone that matures everyone that moves from where you are with money, with your career, your marriage, your parenting, the things we talk about at Ramsey Solutions, your spiritual walk, your physical condition, everyone that moves to get better has to get some psychological tools and some success tools, some behavior tools that says, I'm not going to blame my past. I'm going to honor the good parts and move on. And the way you actually do that with money, the first thing you tell people is to make a budget.

And the first thing I do when I sit down with somebody is say, write them down. Write down the bricks that you're carrying. Write down the tragedies you're carrying. Write down the feelings that are all over your head and fill your head with smoke and flame and firecrackers. Write them down. And that's what I would call a psychological budget. It does the same thing.

It does. What it does is it takes the wind out of the sails of those evil demons. That's right. Because once you put them on paper, they're like little squeaky animals. And I can scribble that off. And I can look at it and go, it's not as bad as I thought it was when it was in my head. Or I've had people write it down, and I go, hey, that's a big one, man. You need to talk to somebody about that one.

And you know, it's kind of like, I got some student loans. How much? $230,000. And you go bucks you go that's a lot right so um it's just taking ownership ownership and if we've got people in our communities that aren't taking ownership then we pull up a chair next to them and we say i'll help you we'll do this together we got to take ownership of this because tomorrow's coming whether we want to drag um whether we want to drag our past with us or not. Yeah. Good stuff, man.

It's a good discussion. And it's just so positive for everyone. Let's walk ahead as lightly as possible. Cassie is with us in Massachusetts. Hi, Cassie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. What's up? Hi, Dave.

How are you? Good. How can we help? We got a little predicament here between me and my husband. So about nine months ago or so, we moved in with my mother-in-law to save money she offered for us to stay in her basement for much less than we were spending on rent. And we had already downsized. The biggest issue is that we've found that she's extremely difficult to live with. And my husband's not super great at communication when it comes to finances. So I feel really, really stuck because he won't really give me, you know,

this is how much we want to save to get out. There's just really a big lack of communication there when it comes to money. What do you make income, or what does he make income? So I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have two little ones under two, and he makes about $60,000 gross. Why don't you just move out? That's a good question. I asked him that all the time you're asking in a way that he's why isn't he hearing that question well i have we're in baby step two um and we have about um 10k and student loan um and metal between in student loan and medical debt.

Those things are stopping up his ears? Yeah. Apparently. There is the money side. Why isn't he answering that question? I don't know. Are you asking the question when you're in a fight or when you're frustrated or are y'all having breakfast together and you just say, hey, man, what's the plan? Like, why isn't he answering this question?

I've asked him many, many times. And recently it's blown up into like a fight about it. And now he just doesn't want to talk about it at all. And we have, you know, had some conversations about it, but it doesn't really go anywhere. I think where he's at is he kind of wants to, he wants to be out of debt, wants to have a certain amount down for a house before, before we move, which makes sense. But I think living here is really, really stressful as well. So it's, it's like a big toss up. Is it more stressful for you because you're staying at home?

And you're the one having to deal with it? Yeah, I think so. And so, Dave, you've answered this question for 150 years on this show. I can't help, that was a little bit of a boomer joke there. I can't help but think that your husband's not understanding, not hearing you, and you're not aligned when it comes to values. He doesn't understand the pain that you're sitting in and doesn't understand the emotional cost. You've got to move. You've got to get out of the house. Yeah, I feel that in my core. I really, really feel it in my core.

We did take financial peace this past November after we moved in here, and we were like, yes, we're doing the right thing. We moved to save money. We're living like no one else. Financial peace never told you to move into a toxic mother-in-law's basement, not one time. No, but we thought that moving, it gave us the amount of space that we needed for two kids because I was pregnant with our second, and we did not have space at the current place that we were at. And we were like, oh, this is great.

We'll save money for a house. But now it's to the point where I don't think it's worth it anymore. And he's like, but we're still in baby step two. That's great. But you're at a sunk cost. You tried something. You went for it. It seemed like a cool idea.

It sounded great on the back of a napkin. And now your marriage is suffering for it and your trust in each other is suffering for it. Your two kids are absorbing your attention. They're absorbing y'all's dysfunction, and you've got to move. Okay. And you have to speak to him. The only person in this you can control is you,

and you have to speak to him in a way that he can hear it. And waiting until there's a fight, or you say, I keep bringing it up and bringing it up. The other side of that word, the negative word there is nagging. And nagging somebody never gets what you want. And so you've got to find a place, whether it's getting off site, whether it's leaving the kids with mother-in-law and going somewhere and sitting down and saying, it's not an if, it's when we move.

And I'm about to put a date on a calendar to get my kids out of this thing. And I want you to be a part of this with us. And we've got to come up with a date together and we've got to work on this together. That's the foundation of FPU is together decision making. And for whatever reason, he's not hearing it. So if your marriage or his emotional capacity does not allow him to hear you when you don't have children in the room, they're asleep. You're used to the white noise of toddlers, but most people can't concentrate with that crap. So they're asleep.

And you take his two hands and your two hands and you look in his eyes and you say, Listen to me carefully. I can't stay here anymore i'm leaving so i think we ought to leave this is not okay anymore and if he can't hear you when you do that and you haven't cut through all the clutter of everything because uh we've talked about this before guys don't get subtlety you have to be very direct look directly into his eyes he has to hear you with no emotion no side crap and you go i'm done i'm done i love your, but I can't stay here anymore. And I know we had a goal in trying to do this, but it's not working.

This is driving me crazy. On a scale of 1 to 10, this is a 12. The fire alarms are going off. The fire alarms are going off. And if you can't hear me, we're going to have to sit down with the pastor and begin marriage counseling because I am leaving this place. And he has to hear, he has to hear that. And if he can't hear that, then, then you got a pretty dull dude and you got some other issues, other issues in your marriage. Yeah. There's other stuff going on. And so you guys will need to sit down and to begin

some marriage counseling to save your marriage because you got other stuff that this is just this is just the symptom. Then if this is the real problem, then it just you transfer and you go. It's not the baby step to you can do baby step to anywhere. Just a matter of how fast it works. That's all. And I want to honor the guy who's saying, OK, we've got this plan. We're going to get out of debt. Here's the map. Here's of debt. Here's the map.

Here's the date. Here's the analytics. Here's the whatever frontal lobe nonsense. But, guys, when you do that, man, you burn up people's souls. Well, I mean, you can run like that as long as she's running with you. That's what I mean. But this is a situation where she's not running with you anymore, and it's because the mother-in-law hijacked your plan.

And it was a cute idea. It was cool. it was a good idea as long as she was cute but she ain't cute so i mean you know it just doesn't work anymore and uh not many people can do that by the way oh that's hard not many people can do that particularly in anglo households hispanics are much better at it. They're much more family. They love each other. I don't know how they deal with it, but they do a better job. That culture does a lot better job with it. It's much more standard, so to speak. But Anglos, man,

we don't go back home well. We just don't. We don't let go well. And then there's mom. We've been picking on mom all day today. My mom's awesome. Yeah, well, so there you go. That's mom. Yeah. Good Lord. We've been picking on mom all day today. But anyway. My mom's awesome. Yeah. Well, so there you go. That's how that works.

And so are your friends and whatever else. There you go. Just keep it up. Just keep it up. Yeah. You're just that guy. But yeah, I think it's a, the thing is this, you can pay a price and you could even put up with her as long as you can see the end of it.

You got to have a finish line. You got to have a finish line you gotta have a finish line and it's got to be before my emotional tank is completely dry that's right you know i i the little thing on the dashboard is reading i got 46 miles left before i'm out of gas and it's blinking at you and the the thing says 30 miles okay i think we're gonna make it but if it says 300 miles screw it we're gonna be out of. Or almost worse, when you don't know how far you're going. That's worse. Remember the football coach that would say, how long are we going to run?

He'd say, until I get tired of watching you. I'd rather know we're going to run 100. Until you throw up a lot. That's right. That guy. Put a deadline. If you're going to do something crazy like live in mom's basement. You can put up with a lot of pain if you know when it's going to be over.

Put a deadline on there. That's right. It's going to take about 30 seconds. Hold your breath and bite through a pillow. Okay, got that. So, you know, it's just, you can do this. But you've got to have a deadline and you guys have got to be willing to work together. You know, your tune might change if you knew it was going to be two months.

But when it feels like it might be two years, or who knows. Yeah. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free screen live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.