The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Get Started on Our Debt Snowball? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour podcast on the Ramsey Networks with old George Camel is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah starts this hour in New York City. Hi, Sarah, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I was just calling because I'm about to start Baby Step number two, and I have some money set aside for the

kids in custodial accounts, and I didn't know if I was supposed to use that on that. I've read Total Money Makeover and The Hang-On Book, and it wasn't clear, so I just wanted to clarify. I would not unless it was some kind of some kind of super emergency technically technically you can um but what what ends up happening is most of us that are parents uh feel like a dirtbag if we use money that we had set aside for our kid, right? And that dirtbag feeling offsets any of the good progress you're making. 100%.

And I thought that's what you would say, but I just wanted to make sure. Yeah. How much debt have you got, Sarah? Non-house related, 74. Okay. And the household income's what uh 310 okay so you're gonna be able to get it without doing this yeah no trouble oh yeah for sure i think i could probably do it in like 14 months yeah um but and how much is in the custodials

oh it's not much like 10k yeah so it doesn't even make a difference really yeah it's just more more of a concept than anything so yeah yeah yet another reason but i mean if um you know you're i don't know some bizarre thing you you had a medical emergency or of with an adult and like you or your husband or something in the house and you there's a hundred thousand dollars in the kids account and we needed to pay medical yeah i would use it for that yeah you know but but but um most of the time you just the the negative feelings aren't don't uh you know would offset any good the money would do uh in my opinion and so that's why i would say don't do that i'd leave that money alone what do you think yeah that's what i was gonna say i was curious the numbers or what it was specifically for or where did they get it if it was that they funded it as parents

yeah i was just curious more of that um but when it comes down to it yeah that's exactly right it's their money so i would stop adding until i'm debt free and i would stop adding until i had my emergency fund and i would stop adding to a custodial until I had 15% Baby Step 4 going into my retirement funds. So once you've walked up the Baby Steps and you're back to Baby Step 5, then you would start adding again. But it's kind of like retirement in the sense I wouldn't cash out retirement, but I would stop adding to it while you're at this stage. Ben is in Nashville.

Hi, Ben. How are you? I'm doing okay. How about yourself, Dave? Better than we deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I have a question about disability insurance. My wife and I have got your standard policies for our workplace, my 60%, and my wife's is

70, and we have been considering getting supplemental disability coverage. We don't have kids yet, but plan on it. Next year, 18 months. And so we were just wondering what your advice would be on the supplemental coverage. Generally, it falls in the gimmick category, and so the bang for the buck is not as good uh is your workplace furnish the other two disability policies they furnish the the two that we have right now we would be going outside of that i understand get the supplemental policy yeah i understand so uh and and so but if you like, your policy would cost your employer probably half what you would pay for a small supplement policy.

It's just, it's not, meaning the supplement policies are expensive. They're a little bit gimmicky. That's what I'm saying. For the actual coverage. Yes, they are expensive. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's certainly dependent upon your occupation. Yeah, I was going to say, what do you all do, Ben?

Do you have a high risk of something happening physically to you because of a job or? No, I'm a lawyer and my wife is a nurse. Okay. Okay. And are you guys out of debt? You've got some money built up or what? We are on baby step number two right now.

We should be out of debt in here in about 16 months or so. And we make $130,000 a year total. Okay. Yeah, I would not buy it. I would not buy supplemental in your case. As you've discovered, it's expensive for what it what you get and you know the you've got the main thing covered because after taxes you're you're 60 or you're 70 is going to be about what you're coming home i mean you're coming home with 80

probably but i mean you're you're not going to lose uh you're not going to be living on 60 of your current take home you're reliving 60 of your gross or 70 of your gross and so um yeah and if i woke up in your shoes when i was in your shoes i did not carry additional disability and um but i will reiterate because i'm glad you brought this up it's not something we talk about enough on this long--term disability insurance is the most underinsured area in America. You need long-term disability insurance. Hopefully you can buy it through work very inexpensively or work furnishes it for you,

or you can buy it through your association if you're a home builder and you buy it through the Home Builders're a home builder and you buy through the home builders association or whatever something like that but get long-term disability insurance it is very inexpensive for what it is for that first 60 to 70 percent amount and you're 32 times more likely to become disabled than to die if you're 30 years old between 30 and 65 so your probability of disability between 30 and 65 is high much higher than than it is if you uh than death is and yet we all run around talking about life insurance and you need to get life insurance too but um but yeah so ben brings up a really valid point that disability insurance is vital but supplemental is not yeah so for any

additional disability insurance when would be a time that you're like yeah i would recommend something i mean is it is it labor because i would think if you're at a job that is more physically taxed like you know i mean if there's if you're in a blue collar situation of some kind yeah your your disability policy is going to be even higher because it's as much occupation based as it is age or health based so anything extra is not i mean if you're a high-rise window cleaner right versus you drive a cubicle for a living right you know it's a whole different set of categories for you to get down they're gonna it's really expensive okay so again you've got to go back and try to get it through some kind of an association but you know what we're talking about is something like an afflac policy and it's like the cancer

policy the accidental death policy yeah the cat insurance the uh heart attack insurance whatever all this it's all gimmick stuff yeah and so i don't i don't spend money on that stuff at all and so i'm sorry nick saban but i just don't there you go this you're not sorry sorry not sorry affleck duck yeah but there we go this is the ramsey show rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. So before we went on the air today, you did your free webinar on budgeting with the EveryDollarGang, right? Yes, we did. Yep, we had a couple thousand show up.

I think over 10,000, 11,000 registered. So there'll be some replays going out to those people that submitted their email address. But yeah, it went really well. We kind of just dove into the fact that your budget really is one of the foundational principles of winning long term. You do this in baby step one all the way to seven and how most people feel still just out of control with their money, that paycheck to paycheck cycle. And then you have inflation on top of that. Student loan payments are about to start coming in again. So there's

just a lot there. So really pressing people and showing them, hey, here's how to do a budget. And then even with every dollar, every dollar premium, like here is the functions for your day-to-day life with money and how we built it to help people again, day to day, having it accessible on your phone and just making it something that's part of your habits on an everyday basis. So it was it was great. And I have another one on the 24th of August. So you can sign up at every dollar dot com slash webinar for that one.

And every dollar dot com slash budgeting. Well, I think that one's jade's i think we all have different no it's every they're all on there now they're all on according to this thing i have in my hand okay well according to the website okay i could be wrong but anyway so anyway you could try either one every dollar dot com slash budgeting jade will be teaching another one she had ten thousand at hers george is uh george is doing one as well coming up soon too. August 30th is Jade and George and Rachel Cruz. All of these are free webinars on budgeting with the student loans bearing down on you, inflation bearing down on you, credit card debts at an all-time high.

Folks are needing to get control, and the budget's the tool that helps you do that. It's completely free to go to one of these webinars. So go to everydollar.com slash budgeting or everydollar.com slash webinar was my last one. They may have changed the sentence, but it was webinar. Let's see what it is. You can find it either way. We'll get you going.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Julie is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Julie. How are you? Hi. I'm fine. And you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, um, my husband's family has a history of very early onset Alzheimer's. So my husband had to stop working at 49 years old. So he has it. Right. Right. He does. And his mom had it and she had to stop working like early fifties and she lived to be 67 now i say that so you understand that maybe with the early onset they live a lot longer needing care a lot longer um and i have three kids and so um they are in their 20s 29 26 24 and so they have about 15 to 20 years to prepare financially for the possibility of them needing 15 years of care. And I don't want them to be in the same mess that, you know, my husband and I are in. So my question to you is how can they prepare financially for this huge burden.

Now, I know they need long-term care insurance, but they're going to need a substantial amount of money as well. Yeah. I'm sorry. Wow, what a tough thing you guys are going through. How long ago was he diagnosed, Julie, your husband? Five years, 54 now. How's he doing?

Well, he's attending an adult daycare, and he's starting to progress a little bit, starting with hallucinations and stuff. Yeah, he's changing on me. I'm julie uh well there is no there is no uh different formula it's just um it's just got this uh i don't know different urgency i guess if you will uh to prepare because as you said long-term care insurance the typical policy only covers three or four years I don't know, different urgency, I guess, if you will, to prepare. Because as you said, long-term care insurance, the typical policy only covers three or four years.

Most of them don't cover, you know, from 49 to 65 kind of thing. You can investigate those types of policies. The ones that I have seen are very expensive. They're inordinately expensive. Because the long-term care industry is figured out that not counting you know you're obviously you all are an outlier statistically but the typical nursing home stay is three years or less two and a half to three years that's the average uh and so they're covering that and that's about all they're covering so they're not um but yeah you can investigate that

and the first three to four years of use of the policy then when you are not able to care for them care for someone you know you would do that uh and but other than that it's a it's a wealth building formula what's the best wealth building formula you know walking these baby steps and building wealth now you know you may want to adjust your baby step four and start thinking like it like sometimes people call us and they're going to retire early before 59 and a half and to have access to their 401ks and roth IRAs and so forth which you can get hardship access to those without penalties but uh it's hard to prove it and hard to pull it off so if but if someone's going to retire early we tell them put some of their money in non-retirement

investing called bridge investing and so you know instead of putting 15 all into roth iras and 401ks i might put 10 there and five percent into just s&p 500 or some mutual funds that have low turnover ratios, right? So that you've got some money that's not trapped in a 401k that you could get to in case you had to deal with this before 59 and a half. Does that make sense? And most likely they will. Yeah. Yeah.

If they. Yeah. If. You know, face the same thing. One or more of them probably. Yeah. It's not 100%, but yeah, you've had this horrible pattern that you guys have watched, and very, very tough.

So, yeah, and then I guess the rest of the equation is spiritual and emotional, isn't it? Yes. isn't it yeah yeah just just walking uh through something like this in as a faith exercise so to speak and then and dealing with the emotions of what you guys are facing i'm so sorry i wish i had i wish i had a really good easy answer to make the money part easy and even but even the money part's not going to be easy yeah and, and I think, Julie, for them, just to be able to, which I'm sure they are because they're experiencing it with their dad, I mean, as we speak, and so for them to know,

hey, I have to be even more disciplined and buckled down, knowing some things about my future that is a possibility, you know, unlike the average person's walk around that they don't know, you know, they may not have that deep of a family history that they are aware of. So it kind of just fast forwards for them, a level of, I mean, kind of buckling down and maturity to know, okay, if this is really true, how much do I need to have so my family can take care of me and that may mean sacrificing you know some of the fun or whatever it may be but just being that much more intentional and then also I think having the joy of life and that was the emotional spiritual part that you were kind of

talking about but also not letting fear um you know drive drive all of this you know John Deloney's coming out with a new book um called building a non-anxious life and not that that book is going to have all the answers um julie for your situation but stay on the line and austin can pick up because we want to give you it's on pre-order right now but we'll get you a set up for for that to ship to you and then anyone else listening because i think that that's um it's a part of this equation that it could so easily turn into dread a lot yeah which is reasonable and understandable but also you don't want it to steal um the the parts of life that do have the joy and being able to live in that that's so difficult so sorry you're facing that and if we can help you any any way as you're walking through this you call us anytime we'll help you any way we can but um yeah the idea that um oh i'll deal with that later i'm

just going to screw around now my 20s and be irresponsible those kids don't have that option they got to lean in they got to they got to be serious from day one and that that's not a bad thing that part that part's not a bad thing the reason is a bad thing but the result is not a bad thing. That part's not a bad thing. The reason is a bad thing, but the result is not a bad thing. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Danielle is in St. Louis. Hi, Danielle. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Good. Hey, I have a car fleece right now, and it is going to end in April, the end of April 2024. And I'm starting to prepare what I need to be doing at the end of that. Currently, I'm in baby step two. I started last June, and I'm about at the halfway mark right now.

But I'm wondering, the only thing I have left in my snowball is three student loans. And of course I'm just making my normal monthly payments on my car so I don't know if I should be trying to put aside money to buy that out at the end the value on it versus what I will have to pay for the buyout is about six thousand in equity that I should have. So I don't know if I should be setting aside money to buy that out. So you think you're going to be able to buy it $6,000 cheaper than it's worth? Yes. I mean, right now it's valued at $6,000. That's unusual.

It's very unusual. It is. I just looked at the KBB today, and it's valuing at about $26,000. And my buyout on my actual lease contract has it at $20,642. In April? In April. Yeah, your car will go down in value between now and April. Right.

Probably $6,000. Is it? I don't know. I mean, what kind of car is this? It's a Subaru Crosstrek, and I'm significantly under my mileage as well. So part of me is like. You don't get credit for that, but the only way you get credit is the actual value of the car. So I'm going to guess and say the car is going to be worth $22,000.

Okay? I'll just make a number up. Okay? Okay. And you can buy it for $20,000. And so you're not overpaying for the car but you've got all these student loan debts and you got $20,000 car uh and you're under your mileage uh what's your household income um it's just me um my primary is just under 50,000

and then my side hustle i'm estimating to make about $12,000 this year, so about $62,000, give or take. And what is left in your debt snowball, just three student loans? Three student loans and then just my police payment. How much are those? What's the balance on the student loans each? I have, I just made a payment today, so it'll be $3,500, $7 8,900 so total will be 19.7 okay all right uh i have a theory of what i might do sure um i'm all open ears yeah i don't think you're gonna have twenty thousand dollars and be debt free by april unless there's some kind of miracle happens in the

numbers i didn't hear okay so if you were debt free and you had twenty thousand dollars cash and you wanted to buy the car we could talk about that but uh if you were going to just walk up and buy a twenty thousand dollar car in the middle of what you're going through right now you wouldn't fair yeah that's fair you know and so that means you don't buy this twenty thousand dollar car and because it's not going to be worth 26 in april it's going to be worth 21 22 it's not it's not going to be the deal of the century it's at least it's just not going to be there so i'm turning it in and i'm going to have saved five thousand dollars to pay cash for a car and so i'm going to i'm going

to knock out the 35 i'm going to knock out the 3500 and then i'm going to knock out the $3,500, and then I'm going to save $5,000. So I'm putting $5,000 in your debt snowball to buy a car. Okay. I have been putting a little bit aside already, so I'm at about six. So then I can consider that done. You are already cheating the baby steps. I don't know that I call it cheating. I call it preparing.

Knowing that it's coming. Okay. All right. Well, I would stop and buy a $6,000 car when April gets here. And in the meantime, I would just tear into these student loans. And then you can move back up in car later with cash after you get your emergency fund in place. But in other words, if this car was $10,000 to buy it instead of $20,000, we might stretch and do it. But $20,000 is a bit of a stretch with your income numbers because you're only dealing with $62,000.

Okay. That's kind of what I was wondering. I was like, it seems like it would be kind of right around the questionable mark. Yeah, it's a little above the bubble for me to be wanting to do it if i'm in your shoes i'm just saying what would i do if i woke up in your shoes so except for the six thousand dollar already saved part yeah yeah you're right on we're right there together yeah she's doing it before you even told her now some people might be built like but dave you're going off the baby steps you're going off the debt snowball but this would be a time to say i'm selling a car so let's it would be like if you're selling

it would be the same as if you had a 35 000 car loan and we're like hey sell it and get a yeah yeah yeah and let's say you were upside down on a car and take a loan out and you ended up with a small loan that was in the baby steps that's the same thing too so all of this is just we've got to get we got to provide for basic transportation yep and so yeah six thousand dollar car fits beautifully in this and she's already a step ahead of us bill in new york city hi bill how are you i'm good how How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am in between buying an apartment for myself and buying a mixed-use building, and I'm not sure what to do. Hmm. Well, both are excellent things, and so it's a choice between excellent things, right?

It's not like one. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think one's in the stupid column and one's not. Okay. The advantages in a 20-year game plan of owning the home you live in are pretty dramatic. But obviously, investment real estate is pretty dramatic and wonderful. So, uh, but what happens is what people don't think about when you buy a home, the first thing you do is you do away with rent and rent goes up every year and home, you know, what you pay for your home doesn't go up every year.

It'll go up some with taxes and insurance, but I'm talking about your payment. The largest line item in your budget is locked in the second thing is it's going up in value tax free 250 000 can be profit uh after one year held uh single 500 000 married um and then the third thing is is the one of the things we find in the millionaire studies studying millionaires is one of the biggest items is a paid for home that uh stabilizes your uh you know your your last 30 years of your life you don't have increasing rents and you've got a very stable predictable non-chaotic situation because your home life is steady it versus investment real estate over there's playing monopoly yeah and that's more of a game yeah yeah so i mean i think owning your own place of residence is it's a huge factor in not only just building wealth but if your entire just financial picture for not just the math sake but

also just the peace of mind sake of having a place to live that's yours and again the fact that it's going up in value and all of that is is fantastic so um so yeah i'm all about buying a home for myself but also investing in real estate it's another great option for for wealth building too yeah yeah if i were you i would buy a house first that's what i'm trying to say you know after all that babbling that's what i was saying so, yeah, just straight up buy a home and then get it paid for and then save up and pay cash for investment real estate. And Rachel's husband, Winston, runs our family real estate, and he's a real estate investor as well. They always pay cash.

We pay cash for investment real estate. We love real estate. I'm a huge real estate fan, but I'm not a huge mortgage fan. And I just, there's, uh, I can always relate. I don't know. It's, it's one part, uh, it's a, you know, it was 42 years. I've been married almost 41 years. I've been married and, um, in my 42nd year, I guess is the way of saying it. And yet I can still remember that part of being single that I think, gosh, I could live in a tent and have investment real estate, you know, because I always wanted to be an investor that badly.

I've always wanted to buy real estate. And so, you know, that's kind of what he's thinking. He's thinking, just that apartment over there, owning that thing would be so cool. And so I can always relate to that emotionally. That's what causes me to babble through the answer. But at the end of the babbling, I still bought a house. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Savannah's in Orlando. Hi, Savannah. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

We are homeowners, and our property taxes and car insurance rates in Florida went up like crazy this past year. We are under on a lot of our bills, and we've been trying to make it work with our savings. Our savings are running out in the next few months and we're trying to decide if we should sell our home because we have a lot of equity in the home or if we should accept a $10,000 gift from a family member to help us be able to stay in the home a little longer. Okay, so Savannah, how much is your home worth? A realtor came and they said our home was worth about $400,000.

And how much do you owe on it? I believe we got it two years ago. It was $251,000. I'm sorry. I'm blanking how much we owe on it still. They said we'd walk away with $130,000 roughly if we got for what it was worth. And how much do you owe on your car? Our cars are a big issue. We pay all our debt. We owe about $25,000 for our debt.

What do you owe on your car? My car is, I believe, $16,000 and my husband's is $5,000. What's your household income? We bring home about thirty nine hundred a month okay what are you going to do when the ten thousand dollar gift runs out exactly that that's why i was thinking maybe selling the home would would be better but i wasn't sure um what what we should do i wanted to make the right choice well the fact that the ten thousand dollar gift is a is a it's just financial denial i mean you're just kicking the can down the road you're still haven't dealt with the problem the problem is your budget's upside down okay right that's kind of what you were already thinking. Yeah, you were already thinking that. So what's your household income again?

$3,900. A month. Oh, I'm sorry, a month. $4,000 a month. How much is your house payment? It went up to $1,700 a month this past year. Yeah, sell your house. Okay.

You can't afford the house house and it wasn't the insurance you couldn't afford it before and you may need to sell the 16 000 car too okay y'all are swimming in stress aren't you yes we are this is not fun are y'all fighting no we're we're we're handling it pretty well we're trying to trust trust the Lord and decide what to do. That's Christian for I'm fighting. Oh, yeah. We are fighting a little bit, but I feel like we've been doing okay. I'm kidding with you.

All right. So how long have you guys been married? How long have you been married? Three years. Okay. And you've been collecting crap the whole time you got married. Now you've got a big old pile of crap and a big old pile of debt. So let's get rid of a bunch of crap and get your life back.

Okay. Sell the $16,000 car, sell the house, and get your life back. I want you to like your life and each other again. Yeah, and there's a part of trusting the Lord. Absolutely. We're people of faith. But there's also that, Savannah, you guys have to do you you guys have to make decisions hard decisions and you have to put action towards things that are needed right

do you get that too like if i weigh 300 pounds and i want to lose weight i can't just trust the lord i have to back off the donuts right there's both things right and that that's the thing and that's like dave's example, because Dave's addicted to donuts. So although I have I'm donut free for, gosh, about almost three years now, I'm donut free. So you'd bring donuts to our house. Pretty good. I'm going to get my little donut coin soon. Oh, my gosh. But yeah. But yeah, Savannah, I mean, and I think for you guys, honestly, if you stay on the line, Austin's going to pick up because I want you guys, you and your husband, you've been married three years, to go through Financial Peace University. This is nine lessons on exactly step by step what to do with your money because you guys are just kind of, you're just normal.

I mean, really is what it comes down to. You have a great house. You have great cars. And you think, oh, God, everyone else seems to be getting ahead and doing well, and here I am. And there's a lot of stress to this life that looks like it should be okay, and it's not, and I don't know what we're doing wrong.

And so having a very methodical plan where you guys are on the same page and you know what's going on, and you actually have a plan that you're working towards, and that's probably going to mean selling the house. That's going to mean selling the car it's being backing off on some stuff because yeah i mean you guys are you know i mean after taxes you're probably bringing home 40k um so that's what you have to work with and there's a lot of debt here compared to that income and so it's probably does feel very overwhelming but it's possible to to change all

of this but it's going to require a lot of sacrifice and diligence on you guys on your end and you can do that if you'll take a machete to some of this junk in your life you'll um you'll get a life back because right now you're you don't you don't even realize how how hard it is to breathe yeah because you're just you're concentrating and you're being sweet. And honestly, you called with the exact right question and you already knew the answer to it. That the $10,000 just kicks the can down the road. You're living in an unsustainable set of mathematics. And the mathematics are kicking your butt.

And you already knew that. So you're on top of it. You got the stuff to win. Rachel's right. We'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University you know her case is almost like a stereotypical case study thing Larry Burkett used to say we we spend the first seven years of our marriage trying to attain the same standard of living as our parents but it took them 35 or 40 years to get there yeah and we

do it in four or five years of marriage they've been married three years four years and they just been get a house get cars get a house get cars get and you just gather and then you all of a sudden you look up you go oh crap i can't breathe oh i'm gonna kill you the stress i'm gonna kill my spouse my stress level is so high and so you know know, but that's the problem is the stupid banks will loan you so much money that they put you in bankruptcy because they don't have an off button. They'll just loan you money. You know, you can go get a credit card. You can go on a trip you can't afford.

You can go down there and get a car. And I'm like, you know, I was sitting with a young couple when i first started doing coaching many years ago their take-home pay was 2,600 bucks and the guy had a 1,200 car payment which was a that's insane for now that was insane 30 years ago that was yeah that would be like having a 3,000 or 2,500 car payment now right but he you know 2,600 take-home pay 1,200 car payment yeah and he's like he, you know, $2,600 take-home pay, $1,200 car payment. And he's like, we're having trouble paying for our kids' food. And I'm like, well, no kidding. I said, you need to sell his stupid car, man.

And he's like, no, I can't sell that car. I said, yes, you can. He goes, no, God gave us that car. I said, God did not give you that car. He goes, how you know? I said, because the scripture's real clear. The blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. and this has got sorrow written all over it bubba and he goes well even the finance manager said it was a miracle

i bet it was a dead come miracle that some bank approved your crazy little purchase but they will they will loan you so much that even the finance manager thinks it's a miracle can't believe it went through must be the lord whoa i made another sale look at that lord thank you lord oh my gosh god and god's up there going i got nothing to do with this don't blame this on me don't put my name there oh hey the banks will loan you so much they just you know and you know there's actually people out there walking around that still think that if the bank will loan it to you it means you can afford it it's the same people that thinks if you have checks left in your checkbook there must be money in the account same people well because you can afford the payment be money in the account. It's the same people.

Well, because you can afford the payment. You know what I mean? Like, that's the mindset. I can afford the living situation that we're in because we're not behind on payments and all of it, right? So you're just staying right afloat. And that's where risk and life and job loss and sickness, all that never comes into play. But when it does, then that's your wake up call. Gotta love it.

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