The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Prepare To Buy a House? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author and my daughter. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Filippo is with us to start this hour in Los Angeles. Hi, Filippo. How are you? Hi, great. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up? So, I'm working my way, we actually, my wife and I are working our way through the baby steps. I got your book, the Total Money Makeover. I'm reading through that. We have a nice emergency fund for now, about $3,000 in it. And I'm trying to plan out the debt repayment because we have two cart loans. Their amount are about $50,000 total. And I have a HELOC on our house, and it has about $125,000 in it. A debt on the HELOC or an amount that is not used on the HELOC?

No, the debt on the HELOC. You owe $ is not used on the HELOC? No, no, the debt on the HELOC. You owe $120,000 on your HELOC? Correct. Okay. $50,000 on your cars. What do you make? Total about between $140,000 and $160,000

a year. Okay. Alright. And you have $3,000 right now. In the emergency fund, yes. Okay. Alright. And your question's what?

So I want to sell both cars because I can probably get what we owe back. And I'm wondering if I should use the HELOC to pay for a much lower payment car.

And so to consolidate all that in one or to get another, another way smaller loan to get the car. Cause we can get another car from my sister-in-law that my wife can use, and then we will need a family car because we have an 11-month-old. Okay, so you're going to sell the cars you owe $50,000 on. They'll bring $50,000, and then you're going to get a car from your sister-in-law, and then you've got to get another car on payments, but it'll be less than $50,000. Oh, yeah. I was thinking about between $15,000 and $20,000.

Okay. Somewhere in that range so the neither one of your car current cars are uh 15 or 20 no they're one is 23 the other one is 24 okay well moving from 23 to 15 is not that big a deal when you make 160 so i'd probably just keep one of those, sell the other one, and take your sister-in-law's car and call it a day. And then let's get it paid off as fast as possible. Right, right, right.

Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah. Which one of those do you want to keep? The trucks because it's bigger and, you know, for the baby and if we have to move stuff. Uh, the trucks cause it's, it's bigger and you know, for the baby and the, the, the, if we have to move stuff. So it's got a crew cab, it's got a second cab in it or second row seats. Yeah.

I say it's a super crew. Yeah. Okay. All right. So yeah, yeah. You can, it's basically a four door car. Okay. I got you.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's good for travel too. Okay. Yeah. That's fine. Keep, keep one of them and then for travel, too. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Keep one of them, and then let's get the other one paid off as soon as possible. Is that your only debt except your home?

Yeah, I mean, the car and then the HELOC that I want to, you know, it's burdening on me. It's like $1,000 a month payments. Yeah, we tell folks on HELOCs they go in baby step six if they're more than half your annual income. Which they are, in your case. Yeah. So I'm going to roll it over to six. What's your mortgage balance on your first mortgage? $5.25.

What's your interest rate on that? $3.2. What's the interest rate on the HELOC? Well, it started at six, and now it's about nine. Yeah. This is why we tell people not to do these all the time. Okay. Yeah, I'm with you.

Normally, I would lean into it in Baby Step 2 because it's, I mean, in six because it's more than half your annual income. But once you get rid of the car debt, I probably would reach over and start smacking it because it's such a high interest rate. Exactly. I think once I get rid of the car payments, I can start throwing somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000 a month at it. Yeah, I think that's probably wise.

I'm with you on that. Let's do that. But yeah, I would keep the truck and pay it off and sell the other one and take the sister-in-law car for the second car. And that puts you in a really good place. You're making good moves there. For sure. When I think,

you know, it's so interesting with the HELOC discussion, because even talking to people that we know in our lives are like, oh, it's such an easy route to feel like you get what you want when you want it kind of thing, especially with your house. If you're going to go do renovations,

all of it, it's, it is the one piece of debt that I'm starting to hear people justifying oh they've always justified everything but the the it's the thing is it's a sleeper because it sounds like oh well this is no big deal when it's putting into my house it's actually a piece of crap as far as debt goes it's a really horrible product and here's the reason you put your home at risk to go on vacation i mean how stupid is that well i know a lot of people do home at risk to buy a couch or to do renovations or to do a renovation yeah you know instead of cash flowing

the renovations and it was just it was just immaturity i want it and i want it now and i'm four freaking years old that's all it is and then but i but i am i've got it on a heloc and that makes it sound sophisticated you're not sophisticated stupid and so are they always veritable rates and that's the other problem that they have calls in them they'll re you requalify you you lose your job and that thing comes up with a call they'll foreclose on your butt yeah so they'll either have a three-year balloon on them or and they've got a stinking variable rate and variable rates were great for the decade that we sat around at three percent you didn't worry about a variable rate but now you guys are facing reality out there variable rate means variable and it usually means up when it comes to a bank right so here we go

now you get screwed now you got a nine percent second mortgage on your house oh my bless his heart i mean i'm glad he's i'm glad he's upset about it yeah oh yeah yeah yeah it's the problem though is what you're saying is true it's just it's well and i think it's season everybody acts like it's okay yes and it's a horrible product and it's so interesting when you go through life and you look from 18 to 65 and you start to watch these financial products really play a bigger role in your season of life so if you are if you've been married you have kids you're kind of in that season of life of if you are if you've been married you have kids you're kind of in that season of life of like the 30s 40s that's when the HELOC right it's not as much the student

loan anymore you're trying to pay it off right the student loan was the discussion in your 20s then it moves to uh well you move into you've been all along you've been overspending on credit cards so now we're going to move those over onto the HELOC I mean we're going to keep spending like we're in Congress you watch it and then you get to your age group and it's reverse mortgages and all this stuff. So I'm like, you just have to be aware. Your season of life, they

know how to pick at the places that you're discontent in thinking I can get ahead in this. We probably do need to write a blog about stupid things at each decade of your life. Yeah. The 20s stupid things, the 30s stupid things, the 40s stupid things, the 50s stupid things,

the 60s and 70s stupid things. Yeah, there's stupid things. We can tell how old you are by the stupid things you're doing. This is The Ramsey Show. Help us out. We need your help. Subscribe to the show. Click the subscribe button. Click the follow button. Share the show. Click a link out. Click a cut a link out and send it to your friends or click the share button. Anything like that that you can do helps us.

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either one, thank you. Thank you for hanging out wherever you are and help us spread the word and leave a five-star review. Say something saying something nice on the internet that would be cool that'd be something that'd be a new thing to say something nice on the internet uh jacob is in fort worth texas hi jacob how are you doing well sir how you doing better than i deserve what's up hey i was just calling because uh obviously i I enjoy listening to you and respect your opinion. Thank you. But my fiance and I, we're looking to move from Fort Worth back to our home state of Minnesota.

Cool. And so I was looking to get your opinion about kind of what to look for when buying our first home and looking at like a fixer-upper versus a house that's already in like prestige shape, maybe in a growing market. Our idea is that we're not going to be here forever or in that home. So we're looking to grow equity in the smartest way possible. Fiancee. Did you say fiance? Yes, sir. Yeah, my fiancé and I. When are you getting married?

Well, we keep pushing it off. We've been engaged for about two years, but we're originally from Minnesota. We moved down to Kansas City for two years, and then we moved to Fort Worth kind of on a whim. So we're hoping to get married at the end of next year, but our goal is to buy a home first. Don't. Do not buy a home with someone you're not married to.

You're going to get yourself into legal, relational, spiritual, and financial trouble. Don't do it. Don't do it. I talked to a gal yesterday that called me. She had been living with a guy for eight years. They had two cars in their names four credit cards in their names and a house in their names and he left you know what she is screwed she can't get she can't sell any of it because he won't sign the titles to any of it he won't

pay the payments on any of it. So she's being forced into bankruptcy because of this right here. Don't do this. Go to see the preacher and get your butt married before you buy a house. Okay? Because you're going to get in a mess, dude. You're going to get in a serious mess. Don't do that.

I've been doing this 30 years. All I've heard is pain around this subject. No one ever gets blessed by what you're trying to do here. Don't do it. Please don't do it. Now, once you get up there and you're married, because you're going to go get married this weekend. And you know it's her. Y'all have been together two years.

So I'm like, just get the license. You guys are married. You're acting like you're married. You're basically married. Painter, get off the ladder. got this jacob anyway i believe in you uh i debated about that um you know part of it was going to get our license like you like you just said and then all the other part of me was thinking about like it was her special day so i kind of wanted everything to happen at once yeah but our goal is to this is our biggest investment

and we're not looking to you know a lot of people take out loans, and they have these fancy weddings that cost so much money, but that's not really what we're looking for, for the long game. But it is still her special day. Yeah, it is her special day, so don't screw it up with buying a house before the special day, and then y'all have no special days. Definitely, definitely. Okay. So you recommend, you know, like just going to get a simple license or i don't care i mean y'all figure it out figure out what what the point is that what our special

day looks like but i would not put your name on a deed with someone that you are not married to you're creating what your attorney would tell you is called a general partnership with no general partnership documents and so i and i've seen all kinds of horrible things happen to people in these situations some of them are just mean some of them are sad but it just it's a mess i have one guy his fiancee got killed now and there was no will she got killed in a car wreck and now he owns a house with her mother talk about awkwardness yeah talk about awkward that's a mess so don't do that now okay now so y'all figure out how whether you know how you're going to get married but before you're married before you buy a house together get married now

let's pretend you're married and then we'll answer your question if you're brand new married i would not buy a fixer-upper fix Fixer-uppers are hard work. It's tough. It's distracting. I would want you to focus on each other and be in love instead of hanging curtains and peeling old wallpaper off. Because, let me say this, it's romanticized on HGTV. It feels like, oh my gosh, we're going to fix this house up and get what

we want all of it and it does end up being usually more expensive the time frame is longer you're dealing with contractors you're trying to i mean you it's a second job is basically what that is and so for your first year of marriage you live in dust perpetual dust it's not all the time people do it well but it sounds a whole lot better than the actual reality of it. There's nothing good about it. I've renovated one house while I lived in it. It's a disaster. I'm sitting in a lawn chair on plywood floors because everything's ripped up watching the Super Bowl one time.

I told Sharon, I said, you might be a redneck if you're sitting in your own house inside in a lawn chair on a plywood floor watching the super bowl that's what renovating a house is it ain't chipping joanna i'm just telling you nobody's hair is done the makeup's not right it's all bad okay there's no reality in reality tv hgtv has ruined your perception of this thing so no i would not do a fixer-upper not my first house if you're gonna do a fixer-upper don't my first house. If you're going to do a fixer-upper, don't live in it while you're doing it. Live somewhere else, fix it up over there, then move in it. If you want to get some equity from some work being done, it can be a little bit of light work.

Like we've got to tear all the landscaping out, and we've got to run a coat of paint through the thing. That's okay. But this idea we're going to knock down walls, and the decorator is going to prance through and tell you no no and the kitchens no you're killing me no don't please your expectation though may have to lower that depending on what you guys can afford the you know that it won't be this top of the line either though right so like there's a there's a you're right a medium there of like yeah but that's a good point i i forget that these reality shows that aren't reality they have nothing to do with they're scripted as they can be

um and the hilarious thing is people in the industry call them unscripted tv but they're about they're more scripted than a dadgum sitcom and then and they've romanticized it make because you know between commercial breaks the whole thing gets done and and it no it's eight months later and you're still sucking drywall dust while you're trying to sleep you know it's just it's nasty i grew up in the construction business i've done probably 1500 rehabs in my life i used to do it for a living you don't want to do that it's not yeah it's not what tv portrays it to be you're right about that i had thought i had not thought about that part of the problem sounds dreamy and romantic yeah it's not it's not fun yeah um i i know it's shocking to you people but those people

on the bachelor could have got a date without the tv show it's shocking i know but um yeah it's it's shocking to you people but those people on the bachelor could have got a date without the tv show it's shocking i know but um yeah it's it's if they were really looking to not be a bachelor probably could have worked it out but um so without any anyway so yeah that's funny rachel's favorite show is that your favorite show still uh it's moved on to the real housewives so we can talk we can talk reality tv another day dave you will not like my reality tv no i don't love any reality tv and the kardashians new season's out you know i love it i think it's all fantastic you are so culturally relevant i think i that i am that i am you kept mentioning tiger king even like six months ago i was like oh dave no one

watches that anymore no i mean that was a covid thing that was a thing during the pandemic but hey that's what we did during the pandemic we watched tiger king yeah but love is blind talks a lot about money there's a lot of conversations around that none of it makes sense yeah all right there we go you never know uh good luck jacob i hope it works out for you my brother uh sorry you called in and got a speech but i don't want i don't want bad things for you i love you and i want you to win you see how i feel growing up yeah that's what i got what rachel got at the living room still in counseling for it this is the ramsey show Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is our co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. One of the things we love looking outside the windows of our studio is seeing all the people in the lobby as we're doing our show. It's on from 1 to 4 Central Time every day, and people come from all over and sit and watch the show, get free homemade cookies and free coffee. And the second thing we love is there's a debt-free stage, and people come in and we do their debt-free screams. And the best debt-free screams of all are those that work on our team. So an actual Ramsey team member is ready to do a debt-free scream with a better-than-I-deserve

t-shirt on. I mean, you're wearing the colors and everything. I love it. So Tracy and Brian, Tracy Kamis is one of our leadership team here. She's a newly minted leader on our team and is a senior director of supply chain logistics, which means she makes the world go round around here. And her husband brian and uh here to do a debt-free scream congratulations you two congrats thanks dave thanks rachel

so you've been here about what three or four months right uh it was 90 days last week oh wow okay yeah very cool good good brian what do you do sheet metal awesome very cool that's a great trade and i'm doing good right now, I bet. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I bet. Yeah, booming. Yeah, good for you. Congratulations.

So how much debt did you two pay off? $462,000. Oh, my gosh, Tracy. And how long did this take? 48 months. 48 months. Wow. And we don't ask your income income since your team members are all standing

around here uh that would be a little bit awkward so uh we're not going to do that but uh uh what kind of debt was this uh everything student loans credit cards uh 401k loans consolidation debt uh you name it we had a leased car um yeah wow and our house okay and and our house and our house as she says it as a passing okay and you paid off your home yes okay so tell us the story what happened because i know you you guys moved here to take this position i remember that when you were coming in and um so you moved here and how did this all go down um about in the end of 2018 i took a new position at my previous company um in supply chain and um i uh was it had switched the time that i was listening to someone else on the radio and on sirius x them and my nice

leased car and i uh it was at the end of the day. So I wasn't listening to her anymore. And you came on cause she had switched channels. And, um, I was like, who's this guy from that has this accent, you know, from the South. I don't know who this guy is, but he's talking, asking people questions that you're not supposed to ask people. You're not supposed to ask people how much they make. You're not supposed to ask people, you know, how much debt they have. And you're not supposed to ask them all these personal questions, like this taboo thing. And everybody was just telling you all this information and you weren't shaming them for anything. Well, I mean, sometimes you're hard on them, but you weren't like shaming them. you're like kind to them and trying to help them um have hope

and um earlier that year i had received the largest um bonus i had ever received at my previous company and i took it it was eighteen thousand dollars and i took it i paid off all my credit cards and by the time i was listening to you it was already back up to twelve thousand and we um were not uh doing our budgets to get, we weren't doing our finances together. Um, we got married at a later, um, age in life and we decided that, you know, we don't need to do our finances together. Um, and then you were saying that we did. And so, um, anyway, so a couple of weeks later, I got your total money makeover book, listened to it in like a couple of days.

And then I came to him and I said, hey, I think we should do this plan. And, you know, by the way, I have like a ton of debt and he didn't know. So that's where it started. So Brian, she had to tell you how much debt. How much debt did you have? Was all of it yours? Most of it was mine. Would you have a credit card

and like a small student loan that you're hanging on to? Yeah, a few credit cards with whatever, one debt, two grand on them apiece or something. So she tells you there's this pile of debt. What did you do? Go, holy crap. Yep. She's like, you want to work together you're like nope i think i'm doing pretty good oh no i don't thank you it was it was tough to put it all in one pot yeah i bet for sure yes a lot of couples feel that uh-huh so what did you think though brian when she's like okay i want

to work i do want to work together let's come together. Let's do this subject as a married couple together. What was your, because are you more of the spender saver? Like what's y'all's dynamic? She's the spender. I can tell by the debt. Well, I guess. I don't want to always mark. I don't want to mark spenders like that.

I'm not guiltless, but I'll, yeah, I usually do my research and plan it and save it yeah and then do it anyway but not just do it and then pay it off later because if you can't afford it you don't buy it exactly so that was in 2018 so did you guys start pretty immediately together in that or pretty much I think we started looking

at the budget back in the day you used to have to hand write the budget and it was driving me nuts and so but I brought one to him and I said, Hey, why don't you do this mock budget and see how much you think you're spending and I'll see how much I think I'm spending. And that was kind of what opened the door for us to see that, um, we were just, we weren't telling each other when we're going to the grocery store, I'm buying bread, he's buying bread, everybody's buying bread or I'm buying steak. He's buying lobster or whatever. Um, so, uh, yeah. And so in 2019 we started FPU and, um, and then we just started, you know, hammering the debt and, um, I paid off the,

we paid off the, uh, the lease nine months early and turned it in early and I got my hoopty. And what's funny about that is, you know, God has a sense of humor because when I went to get the title for my hoopty, they gave me the license plate and it said BMW on it. And it was not a BMW. It's not a BMW. It's a 1999 Toyota Solera. There you go. Yeah, so we did the plan um it only it we actually

did it pretty quickly um we got our uh emergency fund in place and um so you're debt-free everything but the house oh yeah we're debt-free everything but the house in 2020 COVID hit and he went out of work and instead of us being freaked out we we were relaxed and we actually invested in a a Roth IRA for him um two years in a row and we did really well that year because uh everybody was freaking out about COVID investments and we just listened to what you had to say and we're like well let's just see what happens and it went through the roof so it was cool yeah um and then um through that journey um we because of that we became um we started believing in jesus again um or i started believing in jesus again and what god could do and i brought him along um and through that my dad

also came to know j Jesus before he passed away. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's a big story. Yeah. With so much. And then you guys moved here to take the job and sell the house back home.

Yep. We moved here, sold the house, and we just decided that God blessed us with enough equity that we should be able to buy a house with cash. And so that's what we did when we got here. So we are 100% debt free. It's Wow. What a great story. Tracy and Brian, that's amazing. Boom. Well, we're proud to have you on the team, but we're proud of you too. Both of you. Both of you. Absolutely incredible. Yeah. Man, there's a lot going on there in 48 months. A lot happening in your lives. And it's very cool very cool we're so happy you're here part of this team you're obviously very skilled at what you do um here in within

your discipline but uh everybody has also embraced you immediately as a team member and as a key part of the leadership team so congratulations and way to go y'all how's it feel to not have a payment in the world fantastic yeah amen awesome amen well way to go you guys all right tracy camas our senior director of supply chain her husband brian 462 000 paid in 48 months and two people walking with jesus count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one that's how that's done wow wow a lot happened i wish we had a whole other segment with them i'm like there's so many questions i want to ask incredible oh my gosh beautiful well done this is the ramsey show

our scripture of the day philippians 4 8 finally brothers and sisters whatever is true whatever is noble whatever is right whatever is pure whatever is, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. Bobby Knight said, the key is not the will to win. Everybody has that. It is the will to prepare to win that is important. Well, rest in peace, Bobby Knight. We lost him this week. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Alex is in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi, Alex. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So last night, my wife turned to me before bed and told me that she didn't feel satisfied at work anymore and that it was causing her too much stress. And it just wasn't what she expected when she joined the job. She works as a social worker while she's waiting to save up to go into her master's so she can become a clinical psychologist. She moved here about three years ago when we came here to Virginia and she's had plenty of jobs since then, but they've never lasted longer than about six months before she would either find a better job or maybe they had a disagreement at work or she couldn't take the job anymore and we're we're in the middle of paying off the student loans from her psychology degree.

And we just found out that my wife is pregnant like a month ago. So it's all kind of hitting me all at once. I'm very excited about the baby, but I was very, I was very collected when she told me about it. She was surprised. And I told her it's because we're financially stable. We're on a plan. I don't have to worry about knowing if we're going to be able to afford the baby or not, because I know that we can, but if she's moving, if she's planning on moving to a different job, it shakes my structure, I guess. It shakes my rock. I know that we can get by on my income, but we cannot get by with a baby.

I'm in the Navy. I make $4,200 a month. Okay. $50,000 a year. What does she make? She makes $23,000 a month. Okay. $30,000 a year.

Okay. Yep. And we put $3,000 towards her debt every month. How much student loan debt is that? $57,000. That's what it was last month. $ much student loan debt is it? 57. That's what it was last month. 57,000? Yes.

Ooh. Yeah. Is that y'all's only debt, Alex? Yes. We thought it was a lot less than that until she graduated, and we looked at the numbers, and it was twice that. Twice what you thought. Yeah, exactly.

What do you think, not to psychoanalyze her, but what's the job changes that are pretty consistent with her? What do you think the thing is about that? So the reoccurring thing is she doesn't find meaning in her work when she works somewhere that she finds meaning at then she she never complains about it and she hasn't complained about this job for she's been there six months now she hasn't complained about it until the last um two months she she would she started mentioning that she was tired of training. She's been training on the computer ever since she got to the job. And every time they give her opportunity to come forth and do something that actually deals with social work, she trips or fumbles or doesn't get something right.

And then somebody gets upset with her. She's got some rude coworkers. And then she, I think she just can't handle it. And she brought up that a lady called her that was supposed to have called her a month ago so that they could fix something. But now they couldn't fix it because she didn't call when she was supposed to. And she got cussed out over the phone. And she wanted the job so she could help people. and she doesn't feel like she's helping people she feels like people are getting angry at her for do to help? I just, I want to know, I want her to be happy in her work.

I don't, I love listening to the Ken Coleman show and I believe in like working at something that you feel passionate about and I want her to feel passionate about what she does, but I I'm scared because so much is going on right now, and she wants to make this choice. I want to back her in whatever she wants, but I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. Yeah. Okay. There's two reasons that we work. One is to self-actualize and have purpose and meaning in our work and do work that matters and that certainly needs to be the long-term goal all right the second reason we work is

we're grown-ups and we have to feed our family and you suck it up and put a callus on your hand and you do the work. That's the two reasons you work. Now, here's the point. What Ken Coleman is telling people and what we tell people here and have for 30 years is you don't suck it up for 38 years. You suck it up for 38 months. But she has never once sucked it up. She has never once stiffened her backbone and walked through a tough

time every time the wind blows she goes out the door that's who you've described to us for the past few minutes and so she has a baby on the way and fifty seven thousand dollars in debt this is when you suck it up if somebody's mean to you oh well welcome welcome to the world deal with it suck it up she has a she has a um she has some problems with anxiety and she wants to be a psychologist yes sir okay we're gonna have to do something she's gonna have to at 23 years old, she's going to have to develop some toughness to be able to be a mommy and to be a grown-up. And I'm not saying anxiety is not real, and I'm not saying just pretend like you're not anxious. That's not the point. If she needs to see a counselor, fine, let's see a counselor.

But this idea that every time it gets rough at work, we quit, you're never going to keep a job in your whole life. I own this place, and some days i hate it and i can do anything i want to do but i do it anyway and alex i think the and i think the hard thing what you're going to have to discover is you can't control her as much as you want it for her she has to want it herself and her own journey of understanding herself and why she is the way she is why we all are right we all have to get to that point where we're like okay what what has caused me to have these patterns in my life the wake-up call has to come from her it can't come from you wanting her to have it and that's going to be a tough position that you're in alex you're calling the show for her, right? Let me ask you something. Has she got brothers or sisters?

No, she's an only child. I thought so. Okay. And so she's her daddy's little princess, isn't she? No, she had dad problems. Oh, okay. So he left the picture halfway through. Okay.

All right. Because this, it sounds like that mom. It's a lot of hurt. She has a lot. She's functioning out of a lot of hurt. And a lot of her, when she feels rejection, she bounces, Alex, probably from what you just told us in the last 30 seconds from her story. I mean, there's a lot of her stories

she has to become aware of for her to heal and become a whole person and not to bounce. So I, so part of me is like, I understand why she's doing it, but it doesn't make it okay. And so it puts you in a tough position. so you're gonna have to sit down and have a and you guys have to lay out these numbers and just say hey for the next nine months because when you have a baby depending on what you want to do like we have to be in this we have to we

have to figure out a way to pay down this debt so that we're not drowning financially and you need to be and I want and I want you as your husband i'm seeing this pain i want to play out yes i want her to be long term i want her to be in something she loves and where she's helping people and where she's not having to deal with toxic work co-workers i don't i don't blame her for that long term i want her to be there but short term we got to be a grown-up and a baby to feed. We got debt to pay off. And we probably do need to get to the bottom of, from a psychological standpoint, why we're studying psychology and get into this.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.