The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Stay Motivated in Our Debt Journey? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony discuss: Staying motivated in baby step 2, Talking to kids about tithing, Budgeting on a low income. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am Ramsey at Personality. Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. And it's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225. So we'll talk about your marriage, your money, your life, your relationships, anything and everything. Just give us a call. Up first is Doug from Boise. Hey, Doug, welcome to

the show. Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call today. How are you? We're doing well. Thanks so much. How can we help? So I think I kind of have a bit of an issue on baby step two. I feel like I'm just on a, like a debt treadmill where the process is just never ending. And it seems like no matter what I do to get out of it, I always kind of just slump right back into it. And I think it might be something psychological that I just can't quite figure out. And I was curious to see if you'd be able to help me with that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So give me a little bit of background, like how much debt, how much did you have left? What's been your journey? What's caused you to go back in? I mean, it's always just a really small amount of credit card debt. I don't have any student

loans. I don't have any car payments or anything like that. And every once in a while, I'll find myself getting into a hole of about $3,000 to $4,000 in credit cards. And I sit there and tell myself, you got to be kidding me. I can't keep doing this. If I want to make it through this and make it through the baby steps, I think this is kind of just where I'm having my issue. What's causing you to swipe the credit cards? Is it emergencies that happen? Is it impulse purchases? What's the thing that's driving that three to four thousand in credit card constantly i think it might be impulses and things that i tell myself could be emergencies that that aren't emergencies if i go out and i'm doing something and you know buying something that i shouldn't we're saying hey there's these new shoes. They're really cool. I need those.

So I just think it's a lot of impulses and a lot of things like that that's causing that. So I want you to, would you be willing to try something new? Of course. Okay. Two things I want you to try new. One, I want you to look at this not as you're a loser and a failure and an idiot, but I want you to look at this as as you're a loser and a failure and an idiot,

but I want you to look at this as an environmental issue. Okay? Is that cool? Yeah. Because you're in a system now that you've created for yourself. You've just created a loop for yourself where you do this thing, and then you feel like crap about it, and then you white-knuckle your way through it for a minute, and then you feel a little bit better,

and then you go do it again and the whole loop starts over again right you're just like on one of these like kids like train tracks so let's stop beating up on doug number one number two change your environment get rid of all of your cards cancel amazon prime make it almost freaking impossible for you to do this. So for me, I am a raging sugar addict. Comically so. Like my friends make fun of me. It's ridiculous.

My kids make fun of me. It's like gummy. It's gross stuff. It's not even good. It's not even like a Snickers. It's like a Sour Patch Kid. Yeah, it's just gross. It's like a main line.

Yes, yes. i may have snorted sugar before so listen so listen i have to have a home that doesn't have any of that in it and my wife like when i'm out of town my wife and kids they have like they go get ice cream and it's like it's it's an enjoyable time for them i had to create an environment where I don't even have access to it, which then gave me time to let that addiction simmer and stop. And then I can reenter the world. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. And what I would tell you is until you're ready to change the environment, you're not ready to stop spending and to truly get out of debt.

And those are the two, like those first two things, Doug, like what John was saying is spot on. And then even when you're out of it and you're kind of in a better habit of, okay, I'm not going into debt for this stuff because I don't even have the ability to. I have no credit cards. I'm not being myself up. But then go into the practice because even when you become healthier with money, I think still asking the question, why am I wanting to spend this money?

That's right. What is it? Is it because it's going to make me feel good in the moment because I'm sad or I'm depressed or I'm discouraged or I'm bored? Or is it because I feel bad about myself and this thing's going to make me feel better because I'll get compliments from it? Like, like find that route too, because again, buying stuff is, is not the issue. It's why you're doing it. It's kind of that underneath Doug is what John's kind of getting out as well. So, and I, I have found working with people who struggle with addiction.

You, I, I, let me just talk about myself. I can't make that change in that environment. I can't be surrounded by bags of marshmallows and, and gummy candies at, as I'm shoveling them in going, I wonder why I'm doing that. I need to have a clear slate.

So then when I feel the impulse, I can then stop and say, what am I hiding from here? What is my body trying to protect me from? And that's the same with alcohol and pornography, all the things, right? Spending here. I love that. Clear the deck and then begin to feel your body and begin to ask, why am I leaning into this? Why am I trying to cover something up? What is it I'm trying to cover up? Yeah. And just the spending in general in life in our country today is so normal. Consumerism is at an all-time high. And so what are the things, even if you're someone listening

and you're not Doug and you're like, oh, I'm not going deep in credit card debt, there are still things that I even put in place as a natural spender. I know myself. And even on baby step seven, even though we may even have it in the budget, I still feel convicted at times of like, why am I really doing it? Like, what is, why am I spending this?

And so I unsubscribe from emails all the time. I'll go back through because sugar is your thing, clothes are mine. I love shopping. It's just my thing. But I'll go through and I'm like, okay, I'm going to unsubscribe from all these emails because every time there's a sale anytime there's anything it pops up in my gmail account and I'm like oh my gosh there it is I never would have known that

existed on Instagram I unfollow people not because they're terrible and evil but for me I'm like everything that she posts I want and I'm like you know what just get just just just just to click away just to click away and then I never save passwords i never try to save my debit card information website me too i have to re-log in start from scratch every time you're like i gotta go find the car i got in it and it gives this friction in our purchasing as well which i think is really i think it's huge again whether you're like doug and you're like oh my gosh i just seem to keep going into it but even if you're not i think it's just a good practice to slow down and ask the questions okay what why why am i needing this why do i feel like i want to buy it and you just on something

important the companies don't make things convenient because they're your friend they make it convenient because you're more likely just to stumble in and hit buy now buy now buy now so again i'm the same as you i have to set the fourth of july thing came through in this like the 24-hour flash sale and i was with some a buddy in the middle of nowhere and he's like oh i gotta get online it was so annoying having to re-log in and learn a new thing and punch it but i have to set those breaks for myself otherwise i'm just buying this bag and buying this thing and i need this new whatever and it's yeah it just gets out of control for me. Yeah. Are you a more natural saver or spender? Oh, my gosh.

Spender. Oh. Why did I even ask? Why did I ask that? That was a moment where I knew the answer. Direct deposit actually helped me because I would go to the bank and cash my check and it would never make it home. So, actually, by my company sending my check directly to the bank, they take me out of the equation.

It actually helps me out. Oh, so good. So good. I love spending. Absolutely. Again, free call anywhere in the country. 888-825-5225. Here to talk about your life and your money.

This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា this is the Ramsey show I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz and we are taking your calls on money taking calls on your relationships, life, work, whatever you got going on. We've probably got an opinion about it or some expertise. And give us a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Charlie in Tampa.

What's up, Charlie? Hey, John here, Rachel. How are y'all doing today? Doing great. Thanks for calling. Good. Well, I have a question about my wife and I have two children. We have a 15-year-old boy and an eight-year-old girl. And they've seen us in their lifetime on the Ramsey plan and doing our steps. And even the oldest, he's envelope system when he got a small allowance as a younger kid well this summer he has his first full-time job just during the summer and uh he's you know making his first paycheck he actually just got this past friday and um i want to mention tithing

to him he's yeah his reply was yeah of course i'm going to give something to the church but teaching him the the 10 standard his eyes got kind of wide because based on a little $20 allowance in there, that's a very small amount, but when he's looking at a $100 paycheck, that's a lot of money at first. So the question is, I just assume that we require him to tithe being his parents and him living in our home and following our example. My wife's not at all opposed to that, but she brought up the possibility of him being able to make the decision for himself. And so I'm going to see what you both thought on that. Yeah, it's a great question. You know, when it comes to giving, I think whether you're a parent teaching a child or it's yourself, the legalistic side always rubs me the wrong way. So I'm always,

we encourage 10% at Ramsey and I believe I, we tithe 10% even more Winston myself. Um, so I believe in it's a hundred percent, but I, I don't do it because it's a rule and it's an obligation. Uh, there's a heart change that occurs when it comes to giving. And so for him, um, you know, I, I think it's, it's a great exercise for him to learn to give, period, right? Because you want to teach your kids the things when they leave home and become adults of like, here are the habits, here are the principles and the values that I want to instill in you as a parent to a child. So when you leave home, that almost this is normal.

This is how you do life. And so giving is one of those things for me. So giving is non-negotiable. Now, to require 10% out of every paycheck for him, I don't know. I mean, a part of me is like, I think it's kind of up to you as the parent to decide what it was. And I was thinking with mom and my parents, when we got an allowance, we did have to give, yeah, because we got like six bucks or whatever a week when we were kids and it was like yeah you gave a dollar it wasn't quite 10 and you know they were not very legalistic about it uh and then when i got when i babysat and worked at the mall and all of that as a teenager i did give out of it but i honestly cannot remember charlie if mom and dad made us do the 10

um so for me it's left less of a math issue and more of a heart issue for him. And I want him to have the heart of a giver when he leaves home and not just like the mathematics of I give 10%. And that's what I do. Does that make sense? It does. No, that's a good point. It's more of the spirit behind it that I want to encourage as a parent. Here's how we do it in our house, Charlie, and very similar, is I think two guiding principles here. Number one, Rachel says that more is caught than is taught. And so I think he's old enough now

to sit down with you guys and do your family budgets together. Hank, my son's 12, he probably sits through one out of every three or four budgets now and he rolls his, oh gosh, sorry dude dude, you got to sit down and watch us do this. I want him to see that the first line in our budget is giving and we've got tithing, but we've got places where we give. I want him to see this is how mom and dad roll with their money. He's watching it happen.

Sometimes we'll let him hit the button to send payment X or whatever that, or this got automatically drafted. So we're showing him, this is how we do this. The second thing is, is I do think it's important to, like, as there's a reason why you're, you're still the steward, you're still a custodian of that money, right? You're still in charge of your kid. And so in our house, we've said, you will give to something. Giving is non-negotiable. If at this age in your life, you are not choosing to give here, but you're going to give there, I'm going to let you make. So that's where the decision-making capability is. So he's going to see, my son is going to see, we give to this particular organization that we believe in. We tithe in this way. So every Sunday morning, hey, the lights are on here and the air conditioner works here and

our pastors can get up on stage and feed his family because we give. You will give, but you're going to give somewhere. So that's where that latitude comes in. Does that make sense? Because I'm with Rachel. The last thing I want to do is have a son who is counting dollars on a spiral notebook that he was forced to quote-unquote give away to a thing he doesn't. You see what I'm saying? No, that's a good point. You know, very, very good to see that perspective because, you know, we both have no doubt that he is a very generous young man. We've seen that. We just want to continue to promote and encourage that and no doubt that he'll be blessed through that, you know, as we are.

And he sees that in all the things that, you know, we're blessed with and able to do together. No, that's a very great point. And that's a good takeaway. Yeah. And one thing, too, Charlie, with parents that, and obviously you and your wife have done a fabulous job. I mean, from what even you've said in this call, like, man, that's such good intentional parenting when it comes to money and your kids.

But I'm not saying this is you, but there are some people that listen to the show religiously and they are they are hardcore. And it is like there's no room for mistakes and we're going to make the kids do everything perfect. And we got this. And while the motivation is good because you're like, I want my kids to learn this. I don't want them to make the mistakes I made. You have to give room for mistakes for your kids to learn on their own. And so it's better for them to make small, inexpensive mistakes under your roof versus going out in the real world. And the first time that they make a mistake, you know, that it's, that it's out there. So I'm saying all this to say for your son, say you guys said, Hey, you have to give give but the amount you want to give we're going to let you choose and let's just pretend charlie he gives one percent and he's like here here's

just a little bit and then maybe another month he's like oh man i i do feel like i really love this thing that i'm giving i'm going to give a little bit more and he starts to learn himself the feeling of the feeling of wow what the joy of giving brings in him. And he's learning that at 15 versus it being a mandate of that 10%. And one quick side note, I don't have any data on what I'm about to tell you. Here's a decision I've made, and my wife and I have made in our house. I've invited my son in to,

he has a ballpark of how much money comes into our house every month. And I was left out of that conversation growing up. I had no idea. And so I think that helps with perspective when he says, whoa, whoa, whoa, it was way easier to put $2 in the, I don't know, the collection plate,

whatever that looks, when I made 20 bucks. It's hard to put $50 when I make 500 and you can say, yeah, I make 75,000. Here's what I'm putting in. Right. And so it helps norm that scale, right? That question you were asking, it helps. And again, I know your kid, he could probably go run to school and say, can you believe my mom and dad make this much? We have had hard conversations about, don't talk about money and this is the right way to do this and let's be respectful. And these are private numbers, et cetera. But I've just opted to let

him sit down and say, here's what's coming in and here's what's going these are private numbers, et cetera. But I've just opted to let him sit down and say, here's what's coming in and here's what's going out. I want him to have a picture of how the world works. Yes, yes. And that may backfire on me. No, I don't think it will.

No, I don't think it will. On me tragically, but I don't know. I know, isn't that, yeah, that's a, I think it's so good to show numbers to a point,

to your example of like, okay, here's real world and here's what this looks like. And yeah, here's how much cable is, Comcast that we're out of our paycheck. Yeah, those shows you watch, here's Netflix and Disney and they're seeing the dollars leave the paycheck,

like literally, I think is, yeah. Or it was the light bill was the one, he saw it on the counter. And he was like, how much? Yeah, it was staggering, right? To a middle saw on the counter and he was like how much like yeah it was staggering right to a middle schooler you know however many hundreds of dollars like i couldn't wrap my head around that yes when i tell you to turn the lights off in your bedroom that's what it was like oh you know what i mean yep yeah when you crank the air conditioner down to like it has a cost to it right see mom and dad they did that they shared certain things

specific numbers, but we never knew how much they, like, maybe they just didn't trust us. Yeah, I wouldn't have trusted you. I don't think, they were like, we're absolutely not giving Rachel any of that information. My son is so much more trustworthy than you were. Exactly.

Hank really probably. But hey, important thing, Morgan and A, I want to reiterate what Rachel said. Grateful for your intentional parenting. And parenting, if you want your kids to start engaging in certain behaviors, remember, they watch you way more than they listen to you. So if you want them to be givers, you be a giver. You want them to be generous, you be generous.

How you tip people, how you love people, how you tithe and give, if that's part of your value system, whatever that looks like for you, model it and be intentional about teaching your kids. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. Listen, every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream on the show, it's because at some point they said, Enough!

I'm not living like this anymore. I've had it. And when you get mad like that and do what they did, your life will change too and right now inflation and your ridiculous credit cards are killing you you started to believe you're not in control of your money wrong you have to decide to control what you can control and that's you your thoughts and your actions you have the power to change your future. We're one of the few groups of people left in the world that still believe that people can change. And Financial Peace University will show you how.

This course will teach you the proven step-by-step plan that's helped nearly 10 million people beat debt, master budgeting, and build wealth. And you can do it too. Stop letting debt and money stress control your life. Say enough and take back your control. Start Financial Peace University at ramseysolutions.com slash enough. That's ramseysolutions.com slash enough. Let's go out to Phillip in Oklahoma City. Let's see where he is. There's Phillip. What's up, Phillip? Yeah. Hey, how are you? I'm outstanding, my brother. How are you? I'm doing great. Excellent. So what's up, man? How

can we help? All right. So I'm definitely not the type of person who likes being in debt at all. It's a icky, nasty feeling for sure. And I was never in debt until I married my beautiful wife who has some student loans and we both love to get rid of them. But I've tried a couple of budgets in the past and I can't seem to get it right and stick to it because the cost estimates I can't seem to nail down and unexpected costs, things along those lines. So my question is, what are some tips and advice for budgeting and saving money on a lower income? Yeah, that's a great question, Philip. Well, we teach because there's different ways to do a budget, right? There's like the, what is it like the 60-40 rule or the, there's all these different types. So the one that we really recommend using is the zero-based budget. And that's where the income for your month, because you're going to budget monthly, not necessarily weekly or even, you know,

some people do a yearly budget, but once a month. And you have your income for that month. And then all of your expenses underneath, including giving and saving. And the goal is for that income minus all of those expenses should equal zero. So that's a zero-based budget. And so sitting down and doing that, you know, for realizing a couple of things, having a miscellaneous category is huge. And it sounds like that's one of the issues that you have when something comes up. You're like, oh my gosh, we didn't plan for this. So making sure you have kind of that catch-all category, which helps a ton so it doesn't throw your entire budget off. I would also say to make sure that you know a good estimate of what you spend your money on realistically too. I think

some people go into budgeting and they think, okay, I'm going to cut back all this stuff and I'm going to have $75 for food for the month. It's probably not going to work. So really making sure, hey, we know what we need not to be, we're not going to be extravagant with it, but we know what we need in categories like food, transportation, obviously your rent or your mortgage. It's a pretty standard one that you'll know predictable month to month, but really testing those out. And the other thing, Phillip, is give it 90 days. You have to give yourself three months. A lot of people, the first time they do it, the first month or second month, it doesn't work. So they're done. And you really have to stay with it up to three months because things are going to change

throughout the month. Again, you predict something in one category and ends up being something else. You have to end up upping that category, lowering other categories, all of it. So it does take some strategy and being really, really intentional. But some of those things will help. I think, again, doing the zero-based budget, doing it monthly before the month begins, giving yourself 90 days. And then the last thing too, Phillip, I would say is to make sure you're tracking your transactions because people will set a budget and then they, that's it. They just set it and they just keep living their life. And it gets to the 12th of the month and they're like, oh my gosh, I don't know how much we

have left for food, you know, or whatever's left. So making sure that you're tracking that. And EveryDollar, our app here at Ramsey Solutions, does that. It connects to your bank. And so that's a great option if you want to do that or if you want to keep up with you know as you're spending money through the month as well but those are set those again high level but really practical ways um to to do the budget and then again it's also sticking to it like having to say this is how much we have for food and it's reasonable

we're not we're not going you know we're not starving ourselves but but we have to stay in we have to stay in this and that means making different decisions as well and especially if you have a lower income uh having to to use that income and stretch it as far as possible is really key and then if you guys don't have any savings then a thousand dollar emergency funds funds is the very first thing you want to do before you start paying off that debt. But that's where that savings line item will be. And then once you have that, you can take that out of the budget because you're not going to be saving for anything else because you have your starter emergency fund. And then anything extra goes towards that debt to pay it off as quickly as possible.

Phillip, why do you have a lower income? What do you do? Well, I work for Coca-Cola and I do merchandising and I stock and order Coca-Cola for stores. And it's about $35K a year. And so it's enough, but it just seems like it's shrinking because of inflation and things like that. No, it doesn't seem like it is. It absolutely is. How old are you? I'm 22. Okay. That job that you're working is hard work, isn't it? Yeah, it's very physical. It's very physical. It's hard work.

With your work ethic and you don't have any fear of doing hard work, I think you could go get involved in some trades and make $50,000 in 60 days. You could find another job. Making some money. Do you believe that you can do that? Yeah, I'm not sure how many other options there are for me, but I do really love the job that I do as well. Here's the deal.

You can love it all day long, but you have a math problem, right? Yeah. Yeah. Does your wife work, Phillip? No she she's on full-time school and um uh i think this is yeah this is her last year and her scholarships will pay the rest of the way through but but you're 22 and it might be that for two years you do something that isn't your dream job or isn't you know fulfilling all of your hearts you know i don't know rainbows come out of the sky when you wake up every morning but you have a math problem you're just going to put food on the table and you're going to work

really hard to get this debt paid off so that when she gets out of school y'all are ready to run and do whatever it is y'all want to do it's going to be hard to pay off student loan debt philip on 35 000 it's just going to take you guys a long time so i don't know if that's getting even a side hustle changing your full-time career for sure is an option, like John is saying. But then also, I think picking up other work, again, to be aggressive to pay the student loan off. But I also don't want you guys becoming debt-free and still feeling like you're just living paycheck to paycheck still just because of because of your salary yeah yeah what do you want to do long term brother well um well as of right now i was actually picturing uh working my way up in in coke uh within the company um i actually have i have um I am making about 30% more money than I was when I got hired three years ago.

It's still not enough. I thought if I sing it, you could hear it that way. It's still not enough, man. It's $35,000. You could be making 100% more than you were making two days ago. It's still $35,000. It's still not enough to get you guys out of the hole. Is a is there a track though that you're seeing philip that you know okay in in 12 months it's going to be more like is there a progression that's going to happen

though that you know um well i guess i can't say that for 100 sure but i know that since i'm being paid hourly and i get an annual raise like like over time, I'll become more and more expensive to the company as well. Exactly. And I was just talking to my friend, Ken Coleman, and businesses are rolling people back as they get more and more expensive. Businesses are cutting employees. Take a hard look in the mirror, brother, and decide you're worth more than your hourly rate right now and just throw a line in the water to see my guess is you can make ten or fifteen thousand dollars more in short This is The Ramsey Show.

I'm John Delaney, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on Life and Money, 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Michael in Denver. What's up, Michael? How you doing, Dr. John and Rachel? We're good. We're good. What's up, man? How can we help?

Calling today to seek some advice. I'm on baby step seven. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. So I'm debt free and I own my home. And my girlfriend and I are considering my home, move in with her for a short time to build up some more money. And then she would be selling her home and we would purchase a home together. And I am not sure if that would be the right thing to do. A lot of the things say yes, as my home is paid off and would generate a very healthy passive income to pretty much cash flow the new home with the sale of her house and the purchase and the house that we would buy together. So I have several thoughts across the board.

Do you want all of them or just you want me to answer your money question? Sure, you can give me all of them. All right. So let me address it this way. The research is pretty clear that the, the relational satisfaction of people who move in together, who are not married versus those who are, and I know it's going to get me the mean cards and letters on the internet. That's fine.

It's just nonpartisan data that says every single factor in the relationship. Um, you can just go down the list. Every single factor is different, is improved when you're married versus moving in. And so when somebody asks me that, yes, I go to church, there's that, but this is simply, I just am looking at the data

and the chances of your relationship being less structurally sound, right? That's number one. Number two, when you buy a home with somebody you're not married with, you're creating a business partnership. And whenever you create a business partnership, part of the partnership is always what happens if this business partnership dissolves. And if you are dating, untangling that becomes a mess. If you are married and you get divorced, and I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just putting it out there. There is a plan to follow to divide this stuff up. So what I'm saying is if you are moving into this house and you're going to buy another house here,

you're going to share an asset over here that's supposedly income generating all that, all that. It sounds like Instagram math is what I call it. It's like, if I do this and I move this and I get some Bitcoin, what I'm telling you is the chances that some, that the, that the train gets off the tracks are greater and it's infinitely messier. Right? So let me back up and ask you this. What's your long-term play here? Our long-term play is obviously to create a life together. Okay. I would...

By getting married? Yes, getting married. How long ago have you been together? About a year. Okay. All right. She was previously married before. Okay.

Has two children, um, was married for eight years. I think one of her biggest concerns is, is just making sure that we are, um, you know, going about this the right way. And, um, you know, obviously like this is, this is going to be, um, this is going to be long-term. So, and I would tell you, I would tell you the common fallacy is, and it makes perfect logical sense theoretically, it just doesn't play out in real life, is that we're going to practice. You move in with me and my two kids while I'm healing from divorce,

we've been together a year, let's practice what it would look like if we were actually doing this long-term and make sure we're all good. And I get the theory behind that. It makes sense. It also doesn't work in the data okay okay it's it rachel and i will tell you marriage works when you both have jumped and it's like we have to do this together or we both hit the ground right and

that's that's the way marriage works yeah there's a there you know you can like you're saying you can try to say okay yeah let's see because i just like want to know like does does does she hate the way i brush my teeth you know what i mean like whatever like that like you hear all these like little things about people and i'm like none of that like most of the stuff that may bother you that could be like oh this is a sign we shouldn't stuff that that's stuff that doesn't matter in marriage it doesn't and so there's a point that like there's a relational thing michael here that is really big really big that again i know the culture and the world and everyone's like oh yeah that's like what you do it's the next step in a relationship is to move in together and so what we found time and

time again is like it's for the best of both of you to come together is to say hey we're going to be in a committed relationship and actually get married before we make that step. We're going to go all in on this thing. The other side of that is I wouldn't, and Rachel hop in here, I would not leverage my paid for house. No.

And then go rent over here and then go take out a mortgage and build something new. It's getting so complicated so complicated so michael if i were you if i woke up in your shoes you're on baby step seven you have paid for a house you're dating a wonderful woman and you guys have been together for a year and i would say okay if you think that this is long term then like all right let's actually plan and let's just pretend this is all pretend but let's say i'm gonna propose in six months we're gonna get married this time next year we have another year and let's just pretend. This is all pretend. But let's say I'm going to propose in six months. We're going to get married this time next year.

We have another year and she's going to, you know, she's going to save. I'm going to save a ton. And once we get married, I'm going to sell my house. She can sell hers. We're going to put the money together. And you start off a marriage on a completely emotional clean slate by doing the steps the right way in that sense. But then also you guys financially could be going, it could be amazing.

Like, you guys could pay cash for a house together and start your life off, and that stability is amazing. The number one stressor for new relationships is money, and you would take that off the table. Right. Right? By choosing to get a mortgage

and to be a landlord on day one is choosing to, like, hey, let's opt in for more stress in an already bonkers, you know, season of life. One of the things I went back to on FPU is, is just what Rachel said. And I mean, yeah, I mean, I, that's the number one thing that I would like to see for our future is

financial stability and no money stress and pay for a house. And Michael, if you want a rental. And making two good incomes, it would be amazing. Yeah. And Michael, if you want, I mean, and I come from a real estate family. My husband works in real estate. My dad loves real estate. Like real estate is like, it's a big deal.

My family loves it. So I love the idea of passive income of having another property. So even you yourself, not with her until you're married, but if you're making a great income and you have no debt, you could save up and go buy a condo with cash, rent it out, kind of scratch the itch and kind of figure out, do I wanna do this real estate thing?

Do I wanna invest in real estate? Is this kind of the plan I wanna go? All with cash, but you can still choose to go down that road. It's not a this or that kind of the plan I want to go? All with cash. But you can still choose to go down that road. It's not a this or that kind of thing, too. So there's some numbers to play with and all that. But yeah, John and I, for the best interest of your relationship and your money, I would not move in. And I would not try to rent out your house when it's paid off and all of that.

Michael, I'm going to say this is pretty direct, and I may even be overstepping my bounds. Is that okay? Sure. Don't be somebody's tryout. Don't leave your paid-for home and a pretty extraordinary life you've lived to go see if you cut it. You're worth more than that.

And she is too. Okay? Sure. And again, it's not a knock on her. If I'm her, I would be terrified to do this again because I've done it before, right? And it painfully hurt for me. It hurt the kids.

It made a mess. So I get the hesitation. I 100% get that. But when we're both ready to jump, let's both be ready to jump. Not, hey, you jump and let me know how deep that water is right and so that's just hey if you and me were just

having grabbing a drink and having some nachos I would tell you this is just me talking to you this way okay and Rachel and I both just have the both the fortune and the misfortune of talking to countless people who thought they were going to buck the data.

And it's like, yeah, but we're going to be different. And it just ends up in a mess, right? It just ends up in a mess. So, hey, we're rooting for you. Congratulations on, clearly you're brilliant. Yeah, well done, Michael. Clearly you're a person of integrity. Well done.

Best of luck to you and your new family. It's going to be awesome. Hey, that's an hour in the books. And we'll be back soon right here on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country.

To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.