The Ramsey Show - App - How Do We Tackle This Debt? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your money life, your work life, and your relationship life. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. She's our money guru. I'll be helping you on work-related questions because that plays into your money big time. 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Tiffany who joins us in Cleveland, Ohio. Tiffany, how can we help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. So basically, I'm an esthetician. So I have my own spa room. I've been here for two and a half years. And my business is doing great, especially starting off during the pandemic.

I have lupus. So this isn't really the greatest job for me, but this is what I love to do. And that's the one thing that I'm actually good at. So when I work myself too hard, you know, it flares up. I have a hard time. My husband and I have been married for eight years and together four before that. He is a juvenile probation officer with a bachelor's degree. I guess my main thing is that's the job that he's been in for 13 years now. We're seeing a counselor.

We're kind of working on things. But I'm finding myself getting frustrated with the fact that he, you know, kind of refuses to go and find a better job that would pay better. Um, he only, he makes 2000 every two weeks. Okay. So 4,000 a month after taxes. Yes. After taxes. Yeah. So I bring in more than that. Um, what do you bring in so on average like 3,000 3,500 or so a month um I thought you said he did 4,000 oh no no sorry two I'm sorry 2,464 a month that's him 2,464 a month yes okay yes okay sorry sorry what is his job again he's a juvenile probation officer so he's making bachelor's degree okay and is he salary or hourly he's salary what's his salary what is it 40 40 45 something in that range yeah it's got to be like 40 okay yes so then after taxes and

insurance and all that okay let's so this is not about numbers this entire call is not about numbers this is about you feeling like he should be uh or excuse me he could be and he should be making more money could be doing more yes yeah and it's creating a lot of tension. Yes, and am I being unreasonable? I don't have a degree, you know, I don't. No, but the way you're going about it might be. So what is the narrative? When you sit down with him, to the best of your recollection, how are you talking to him about this? I've tried it a couple different ways. I've tried saying, hey, you know, I can help you with your resume. You know, let's, let's try and see, or I've tried to say, Hey, you know, like this is the great time to apply to jobs. They're hiring everywhere. I got to throw a flag on the play. As long as we get back to what he said, I got to get that part.

What's your flag? My flag on the play is everything is you towards him. Yes. And I think that this is just me. Again, all I can tell you is how I would do it. I feel like and I know the lupus plays into it, but I feel like when you're talking about our money and our finances, everything's got to be a week conversation. Everything's got to be OK. We need to earn more. What does that look like for us to earn more yeah and i think that's just approach wise because i and can you complain to this but there's something about and this is this is a little bit old school but there's something about when you come to somebody it feels it almost feels like an attack well there's a question yeah so we have to even if you don't want it to be and i and come for me in the comments but even when it's like a lady coming at a guy about what you're making you have the right to question it and you have the right to want it to be different but it's almost like there's got to be some tactfulness getting in there because it's almost like he's probably like

the ego part is feeling it you know what i'm saying like yeah and he becomes defensive he gets defensive first and you can't get anywhere okay so here's what we have to focus on you can't you're giving him the what he should be doing and you need to be focusing on what is keeping him from doing anything else there that's what's holding him back so what is his language what are the words what are the things that he's saying back to you? Well, you know, he's saying, well, I applied for that higher-up job before, and they told me that they needed to see more from me. I went to college, but it was really easy.

I don't think he has a very good self-esteem. He doesn't. No, he doesn't. So what I'm trying to help you understand is as a spouse jade's right but we've got to you've got to understand what he's dealing with he's not lazy he's lost yeah and it presents as lazy and i'm not saying you called him that but this guy is he's afraid to stick his hand back up because it's been slapped before. And he's got bad self-esteem issues, which by the way, go deeper than just what we're talking about. So there's a couple things. And I'm not saying you got to walk around building him up and saying all these

compliments, but to the extent that you can as his spouse, supporting him in the area of what is holding him back. So you're no longer idea person. And by the way, I'm not saying your heart's in the wrong place. It's not. But ideas aren't the fix. You know what the fix is for him? Him having a vision for his future that he actually believes that he can get. I don't think he has one. No, he doesn't. But he can't. He can't have an idea about the future when he's clouded about the present. He doesn't believe in himself. He doesn't think he can do much more.

Maybe he thinks he missed the boat. Maybe he thinks he's failed too many times. There's something going on. And so in the moment, it's like driving a car and you hit a patch of fog. And he's hit a patch of fog. And the only thing you do when you hit fog is slow down, pull over, and wait for the fog to clear. So the only thing you can do is speak love into him, belief into him.

I believe in you so much. I hate that it happened to you. Hey, let's have a dream night where we dream together. And instead of dreaming about his job or dreaming about the career path that he needs to be on, why don't you get him talking about the life that he longs for with you? And when we can get his head into that, then you go, okay, what must be true? Like, what do we need to do collectively together? Yeah, Ken, because that's the big one for me on this.

And I'm not coming for you at all, Tiffany. I'm just telling you what I heard, okay? And sometimes it's good to have an impartial person because they can tell you what you heard and say it back when you initially started the call because I want to make sure the talk in the house feels right when you initially started the call it made it kind of seem like I've got my anesthetician thing I've got my own room I'm making $3,500 a month it kind of made it sound like hey I got this going on but then this is the one thing I know how to do and this is what I do but then when you kind of

started talking about him it was kind of like and he needs to do this and he needs to do that he probably thinks what he's doing is the one thing he knows how to do so I feel like there's definitely needs to be a little bit more balance in how we talk and when you finally have this conversation it's what both of us are doing to improve. Because even though you're doing well, there is something that you can do to improve too. And that's how you keep it balanced skills and not just you pointing a finger at him. Real quick. When a person is clear, Tiffany, they can be confident. So I'm going to give you two tools. I want to give him the get clear assessment. Will you please gift it to him and say, Hey, I think this will help you see more about who you are and where you want to go and giving the book from

Paycheck to Purpose and then just love him and support him. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are here for you, 888-825-5225, taking your money calls and your work-related calls today, 888-825-5225. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Fall is a great time of year, but nothing can get you down faster than plumbing problems. Neighborly brand Mr. Rooter can handle plumbing emergencies as well as repairs and drain cleaning. Visit Neighborly.com slash Ramsey to find a Mr. Rooter near you. Awesome.

Today's question comes from Madison in California. She says, I work in L.A. as a self-employed fitness model. Okay. I have worked for the same company on 1099 for seven years. No contract involved. They just keep booking me. The company is looking to hire a full-time model, which would kick my position out. Would you recommend I start looking for other clients at a higher rate to diversify my clientele or work as many hours at my current

company to make the most money possible and pay down my debt? Both. Next question. Moving on. Yeah. I mean, it really is the situation here is that I'm going to do both. I'm starting to look, no question. You want to have your head on a swivel looking for many opportunities. And by the way, she should be doing that as a self-employed 1099 anyway. 100%. You are living and breathing off it. You and Sam understand that. I mean, that's essentially your world. You guys were running a company. You were the musicians, plus you were booking. That's right. And so you're always looking for that next client that, and again, what's your max? You know, how many, how many gigs can you do? But I would absolutely be looking and, and getting new gigs, but I would stay with them until the last possible day when

they go, Hey, we, we hired the newer, younger model. That's true. I took some liberty with that one. I don't know if that's what they're actually doing. Well, I mean, as an artist, you do have to diversify. Like, that's the name of the game. You should very rarely ever sign anything exclusive. So it sounds like there's no reason that you can't start looking for your, you know, diversifying your clientele and building up your thing. Yeah, I mean, doing all that, you're paying down your debt. I don't see why there's a downside to that. No, not at all. And I just got a good idea. In fact, no, it's not a good idea. It's a bad idea, but I'm going to share it with you. Okay. I wonder what the market is for the dad bod fitness model. There's a market for everybody. Because I, you know, I'm, I'm not in great shape, but I'm not in bad shape.

Maybe I could do some of that. Just like, here's the regular commercials on TV. They're regular guys. Like there's gotta be a spot for me to sell like pickleball equipment to middle-aged guys. Yeah. Yeah.

You got the one pack, not a six pack. That's hysterical. Just got a pack. I mean, like, like, I mean,

you know, I'll tell you one thing you're not going to do is ever see me modeling this kind of shirt. I see it on camera now and I go, I can't pull that off. I feel like you're modeling it now. Like you're just wearing it. Nobody thinks that I would ever wear this shirt in the woods with an axe. No, you're like Hallmark. You're a Hallmark movie.

Yeah, that's a stretch. All right, Milwaukee, Wisconsin is where Tanner awaits. Tanner, how can we help? Hey, I am looking for, I guess, advice on how to utilize my wife and I's savings to attack some debt we still have while expecting our first child in April. Great. Lay it out. Lay out the debt for Jake. We have $47,000 in student loans still and a $15,000 auto loan. Okay, cool. How much do you have saved? We have $45,000 saved right now. Okay, I like that. So you've got this baby coming along.

I probably would just honestly push pause on the baby steps until the baby gets here. And knowing that you've got this debt, knowing that you've got this savings, keeping in mind like, okay, once this baby gets here, we're going like ham on this. What I would do is stack up as much money as you possibly can between now and April, magically getting to the number that allows you to pay off your debt. But we're just sitting on it just until the baby gets here. because I just want you guys focused on that. And then when the baby gets here, everything's all good. You've paid your deductible. You paid for the baby to get here. Then take that savings, take all the money you've saved up with it,

and knock out every penny of this debt. Sound good? Yeah. And then you're going to build up your three to six months of expenses after that. Sure. How much money do you think you could save between now and April? We could probably save, I don't know, probably another three to four thousand before then, I'd say. Okay. Yeah. Then I'm doing that. $3,000 to $4,000. And your wife, when she has a baby, she does her leave. Does she plan on going back to work or what's the plan for that? I guess our plan right now is that my income would be all we'd kind of be living off of. And she actually is not going to be getting any paid leave. So I'll have to account for that as well. But so with her income out, it'll be

like between 45 and 48 pre-tax is what we'll kind of have to be working with. Interesting. And can you're, can you're, I'm a little worried about that because right now with both of you working, there's only three to four months, there's only three to 4,000 that you're putting aside to pay off this debt. Right. And that's not going to help you clear it by the time you have the baby. Then you're taking this pay cut and I'm worried that you won't have margin to continue paying off the debt. So what's the plan to create that margin? Right. Yeah. I guess it would have to be kind of limiting our expenses a little more than we have. And I guess my thought was potentially paying off the rest of our auto loan to free up some more income each month.

But I guess I'm not sure if that's advised or not. But that's something I thought of to try to free up more of my income for when that would happen, you know, in spring. Well, that's going to get paid for first anyway, right? Because you're listing the debt smallest to largest, unless the student loans are teeny tiny ones and you're doing those first. No, the auto loan is going to be smaller than the two student loans combined. Okay, so that's happening regardless, right? When the baby comes, that $15,000 is gone. And then the rest coming out of your savings and the $3,000 and $4,000 is paying off,

I don't know, another $34,000 of student loans, right? Yeah, give or take, yeah. Okay. So you've got $15,000 or $17,000 left of that. So that's the money, that remainder of debt, that $17,000 or so of debt, that's what I want to make sure you guys have the margin to pay down and keep that intensity and go quickly. Sure, yeah. So when your wife stops working, what chunk of money are you losing? What was she making? $40,000. Yeah, that's a big, I mean, that's half your income right there. So what would make me feel better is if tonight or whatever night this week works for you guys, sit down and really play out these numbers and see, okay, how is this really honestly, not just in our minds, because we all have the fantasy of we have a baby. And now I don't, I no longer work anymore. Like, for a lot of women, that's what they want to do. And so you really have to look at these numbers and see if they work because it might just be honestly just that tweak of going, Hey, after, after your maternity leave, even though you don't get a, you know, it's not paid or

whatever after your maternity leave, is it possible to go back and work just for a little while until we get this debt cleaned up? And then we transition to that lifestyle because that's going to save you a lot of months. I would also like to suggest, Tanner, that if you and your wife have this conversation, Jade's right, and we go, okay, what's our reality? One of the options is for you to step up and go, all right, baby's going to be little. I'm going to be there. Mama's more important than you are right now, bro. Let me just lay that out for you. come on i got three they want mama i know as teenagers they still my wife knows everything about what's going on this kid's life i don't know anything it's not because my head's in sand they just tell her everything jay and so mama's more important tanner and and this season specifically here's what i'd

be thinking how many hours can i work look can i make some extra money to accomplish the same thing jade is saying i just think you got to consider do i bust it work some crazy hours knowing that i'm making life better for little one and mama that's right and uh it's a season it's a season i just have to push that well regardless and and sorry we're belaboring this but regardless there is something that needs to happen. Whether you decide to work more, she decides to go back to work to pay off this debt. There's still this long-term picture of,

okay, you still got to put three to six months. We still, you know, are saving for kids college. And I'm challenging this 48,000 income long-term, not just with a side hustle because you're not going to want a side hustle until you pay your house off, right? We've got to look at

what it's going to look like to get this core income up over the long haul. And is it just you or is it you guys working together for a short term to accomplish that? Yeah, great advice. And congratulations, young man. Exciting. Hey, go ahead and let me get a little extra naps between now and when the baby comes because you also aren't going to be sleeping whether you're working extra or not. Just part of the deal. Team no sleep. It's going to be okay. You'll make it.

This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. James Warshaw joins me. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. If you're new to the program, yes, we talk a lot about money, but a big part of your money life is your work life. It is your greatest wealth building tool. That is your income. And I help folks win in their work life. And so we'll take those work-related calls,

anything you want to talk about on that issue. And I promise you, Jade's got an opinion on that too. So you get plenty of advice on that. Let's go to Mark now in Portland, Oregon. Mark, how can we help? Hello. Hello, Mark. You're live. What's happening?

All righty. So I have kind of like a weird multifaceted question. I am a 100% disabled veteran, but I'm still like total impermanent and I'm still allowed to work though. Okay. Um, I have pretty much all my GI bill still. Um, and I have minimal student loan debt from, uh, getting my degree and I have my, I got my bachelor's in mechanical engineering.

Um, but kind of the big kind of crux to what I'm wondering is, like, I get a one-time federal student loan forgiveness because of the nature of my disability from being in the Navy. So I'm kind of, like, trying to see, like like is it worth it to just go to grad school and then just max out the student loans and just get them forgiven. It seems kind of sketchy to me a little bit. Hold on a second. It's legal. Hold on, hold on, hold on. So what would the master's be in and why would you get it?

It would probably be a master's in mechanical engineering, focused more on like building science, like building science in the built environment. That's kind of what I'm doing now. So would that set you up for growth financially through promotions? Yeah. Yeah, it would. So what's sketchy?

Because he has the GI Bill. Because I can use my GI Bill. That pays for the entire tuition and I get a housing stipend. If I were to be going, staying in Portland, I would be getting $2,300 a month tax-free while in school. And then on top of that, if I were to take out student loans, I could take out up to $65,000 a year for the two years to do that, to kind of offset the loss of income that I have now. And then another kind of weird aspect to this, too, is like this would be like if I were to do that, that would be more than what I'm making now with the GI Bill and those loans. Because there's no taxes associated with that.

And my wife is also in medical school right now too. So just kind of the money is kind of fungible because we're married. But like realistically, a lot of the money would probably end up going towards like reducing her loans so let me get let me let me make sure i got my head around this because some i'll be honest like with all the military payments and stuff like that sometimes it gets confusing so you've got a little bit of existing student loan debt how much is that yeah 10k 10k will the gi bill pay for that pay that off no but i could get it forgiven right now if i wanted to but okay so just one thing just one thing at a time because i want to help you but i also want to make sure the people listening understand why won't the gi bill cover that

because it's he's already done that but i already have that that the gi bill would cover you going to grad school correct yes so my question is why can't you just use the gi bill you going to grad school, correct? Yes. So my question is, why can't you just use the GI Bill to go to grad school if that's what you want to do? And why can't you use the other piece that you had, the federal student loan forgiveness, because of your disability to pay off the $10,000? What's wrong with that? Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. But to me, and this is where I'm like kind of the moral and ethical dilemma, like I could do all that. But then I could also take out more student loans and then those would get forgiven because it's just a one time.

Oh, so what you want to do, you want to take out extra student loans knowing that you can get the federal government forgiveness. Yeah. Yeah. And not use those for education. I mean, it would be covering my housing expenses and all that. Like, that's kind of where... I thought I heard you say... Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

I also thought I heard you say that would go towards paying off some of your wife's medical loan debt as well. So you're talking about taking out a student loan to use personally. Well, you can use student loans to cover your housing expenses. But didn't you say the GI Bill already gave you a stipend for the housing? That's just for like living expenses and other. Portland's like a more expensive city. But hold on.

Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Because I'm hearing you, but I'm also feeling a little, it, um, the fact that we're going back, there is a shady quality to it because the GI bill covers what we would call living expenses, right? Like whether that's rent or other things that goes along with living, but you're saying i would take out student loans to continue to do that my problem with that is the gi bill saying hey we have a stipend for that that's

what that money is intended for the federal student loan forgiveness student loans by definition should be to pay for education so it does bother me related expenses well no not necessarily i mean related expenses yes but are you going are you living on campus to go to school no no i have a house and a mortgage and a job so that's what i'm saying like currently so if i would stop working to go to school yeah i feel like that's a little weird it's not like you're going to school, you're taking out student loans. This is covering room and board and dormitory and that. I mean, they are student loans, which by the way, I wouldn't tell somebody to take out student loans anyway,

but in this case, they're forgiven. I just, I'm going to... So wait a second, let me, and pardon us. We're not trying to be dense. No, we're not. It's just the way you set this up. It's strange. Well, it's strange because you know it's not right.

That's what I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a student law. So hold on. So you agree that you just said, okay, we finally got it. I didn't mean to lead you there. This is my first lawyer moment.

You don't feel this is right. Uh-uh. And I don't feel like it's right. It is sketchy. Yeah. Well, then why are you calling us, asking us if we think you should do something sketchy? Because free money makes you do funny things, Ken. Well, it ain't free.

It's all the taxpayers' back. Because it's not illegal. My friend, listen to me. First of all, two things. Since you called, now I'm going to tell you what I think. It's sketchy because it's wrong. It's wrong because you're taking out money. That's all taxpayer-funded, my friend.

I'm paying for that. Jade's paying for that. I could go around the room. We got some nice people out in the lobby. I don't think they would like to pay for that either. They don't feel good about it. It's wrong. I'm paying for that, too.

But my crux of it, the crux of it for me, the reasoning behind it, because I feel like we do have to point out the reasoning. For me, the reasoning is student loans really should be for education. And I don't think in your case, I don't think the living expenses are an expense of you getting your education. If you were going to live on campus, if you were staying in a dormitory, if you had to get an apartment in another city to take the classes, then I could see, okay, maybe. But in your case, because this is your situation, I don't see how your personal mortgage has anything to do with you choosing to go to grad school. And so for that reason, I think that's where the ethical barrier is for me.

We're agreeing with you. You said it was sketchy. We think it's sketchy. And let me just say this. You're a great American. You served our country, disability because of it. You're a great American. You're a great American, and you know it's sketchy.

So it's up to you, my friend. I don't think you can rationalize this for me or for Jake. No, I'm trying to in my head, and I haven't been able to. Well, then trust your gut. Look, if you had said something, I'm just trying to come up with some scenarios. If you were like, hey, when I was in the military, I don't know. I'm just trying to come up with a way that maybe this might,

like if you inquired a bunch of other debt because of school, but I just don't know. I'm just trying to come up with a way that maybe this might like if you inquired a bunch of other debt because of school. But I just don't see that like this just doesn't it unhit right. You're a good man, a great American. Thank you for your service. Your gut's right. We agree with your gut. And you've got a bright future in front of you. You don't need this. Wife's going to get through medical school. You guys are going to be fine. Don't try to shortcut it. You guys are on the right path. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warshaw. We're here for you, taking your money calls, your work calls. Today, 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Okay, so you said, I'm going to do this. Yeah. I guess we do it in the comments section.

This is when we need a poll feature. Is this real? It's real. It's happening. Okay, okay. This is happening. I didn't clear it by James. And, you know, he'll talk to me about it after the show.

I like this. This is hard-hitting. I like it. He likes it. All right, so here it is. I'm going to set it up quickly. I don't want to eat up a lot of time after the show. Look, I like this. This is hard-hitting stuff. I like it. He likes it. All right, so here it is. I'm going to set it up quickly. I don't want to eat up a lot of time on this. All right, let's go.

That's my little friendly ask. Well, you're eating it up now, Ken. Come on. All right. Here it is. Fair. Fair point. I see what you did there.

Last call. Okay? Last call. Gentleman served our country. He was in the Navy, disabled, and has the GI Bill, has $10,000 in loans. The GI Bill won't cover, but then he also has the ability to get as much as $65,000 in student loans.

And he was thinking, hey, should I just take that out, live off of that while I'm getting this master's, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Wife's going to be a doctor, all that. He said he felt sketchy about it. And we told him it was sketchy because at the end of the day, he wasn't using the money for education. He was using it for other stuff. But during the commercial break, you said,

it does feel sketchy, but as my portion of being a taxpayer, because of his service for our country, I would be fine with him doing it. And I said... No, no, no. I said I'd be willing because the forgiveness is taxpayer dollars, $65,000. And I said as a taxpayer, I would be willing. This guy served our country to the point of 100% disability. I would be willing to give him my portion, which is 0.00000091 of that 65,000. And my question was, if enough other folks in the

chat say, I'd give him my portion too, then that means it's like, hey. All right. So what say you in the comments have at it? Would you give your percentage? And I would be, I'm happy to go on record as saying I am a bleeding heart conservative. Let me define that. Don't make me give you the side eye, Ken. That means that I feel really, really bad for his situation and plight, and I'm so grateful for his service. But. But. Ken!

I am not going to donate my tax dollars to his. It's less than one cent. This is such a silly argument. It's about principle, not actual percentage. Ho, ho! Write that down can you sound and stingy uh no sounding principled and it gets called stingy principle works whether it's stingy or generous so there you go comment away that's all we got let the let the people speak people in

the in the audience sway the audience there's a couple of folks in the audience. You're trying to sway the audience. There's a couple of folks in the audience. They're with me. Would you? Look at this guy. Look at this guy. They're 100% with me. Wait, it's less than a penny. Stop. It's a principle. Thank you, Deanna. Deanna is with me. Oh, man.

Y'all are funny. Look, there's no right or wrong answer. She's a whole nother situation. I know. That doesn't even count. What does that mean? I don't know. We need to move on.

Move on. Y'all put that. Drop it in the comments. Because I really want to know. Would you give your hay penny for this man 65 000 it's not the point you reframed it it's should taxpayer dollars go to him living off of student loans no should not i don't care how much the amount is i'm letting people speak if someone wanted to be generous all right we'll see that's all i'm saying it doesn't mean generous versus stingy i'm reframed all right christina is up in salt lake city christina how can we help yeah well i'm totally with you on that you who you who you you you support ken. Thank you very much. Appreciate your vote, November folks.

Yeah. So I have a mortgage. It was originally $295. It's about $280 right now. Uh-huh. And I have PMI. Okay. Because we really needed to move back to where we were. And it was, anyway. we also have $30,000

in student loan debt. And when my husband and I went to college, it was 3%. So we, we were in the good, good time. Right. Yeah. So the question is, should I pay off my mortgage to get rid of the PMI or should I pay off a student loan and my PMI is about $43 a month um the the short answer is no I would not pay off your mortgage first to get off get rid of PMI I would walk the baby steps which is paying off your all your debt except your mortgage so it's almost the complete opposite. And there's good reason for that. Your student loans are debt and it's costing you money every single month. And there's something to be said for when you get on a plan, walking the plan the best way. The way that the baby steps is constructed is the most efficient way to paying off debt, saving money and building wealth.

And it's not just me saying that this plan has been around for over 30 years and millions of people have walked it this way. So the thing about it, Christina, is everybody out there goes, my situation is a little bit different. And because my situation is like this i think it would work better if i did it like this right now the fact of the matter is you can get off this phone you're grown you can do whatever you want and i'm not gonna be mad at you we're both gonna sleep good at night but if you're asking my opinion i do think that the best use of your money is to get these student loans off your plate free and clear. I think this 20% PMI thing, it's just like a bad song that won't get out of your head.

Like it's really not, it's cool to save money on things, but it's really not, in your world, it's really not that big of an important thing. Because once you get this debt paid off, once you get three to six months saved, once you start investing 15%, you're gonna be on such a great trajectory. And by then, probably the amount of money that you've paid off on your mortgage, I don't know what your payment is. I don't know what your interest rate is. But you might be close to

knocking that PMI out anyway. Because once you hit it, you know, it's off. Like once you get to that 20%, it's out. And if you're not there by then, then you will be sooner than later. Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, we hit the interest rate at like 4.8. And so it's not great. But we just thought the $500 a year was kind of high. It is. To pay MPMI.

It is. But you're going to be there again. Everybody's got that kind of why I'm the exception to the rule. And my point is, if you walk through the plan, ultimately you're going to have more money to throw towards this and you're going to have the peace of not having debt, having your savings. Do you have any savings, three to six months? We have about like $7,000 in savings. Exactly. So my point in this is I think you're trying to do the right things, but I think you're trying to do the right things in the wrong order.

And at the end of the day, you still have debt. You don't have quite enough savings and you got PMI, right? So let's start doing this stuff in order so that we're not kind of, you know, it's almost like I put a little money here. I put a little money there. I put a little money there. And you look up and it's like, yeah, but I still have debt and I still don't have savings. Like you're not accomplishing

what at the end of the day we all want, which is that peace with our money. And you get that peace when that debt's paid off, when you've got the right amount of savings, because for you guys, 7,000 is not enough. And then at the end of that road, the final thing is we're paying off the mortgage with intentionality. And if you want to go intensely for a while to get rid of that PMI, that's your business. But does that make sense

for you? Yeah. No, that's fine. I just wanted to know what you guys thought because we aren't full disclosure. We're not fully following the baby steps but like we have all of our cars are paid off our campers paid off look that's awesome that's awesome but i do think that uh i have an analogy in my brain i don't know that it's appropriate but oh i kind of intrigue now well it's like if i if if i I married and I got this from my pastor, if I'm married, I'm 100% committed. And it,

it, it gets real funky when I say, Hey, I'm committed on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

Saturday, but Sunday, Sunday is when I get into it. Like that doesn't work. He'd be like, um, this is not a full commitment. And so we would not be able to have the marriage that we should have because I'm not fully committed.

And I think it's the same way with this plan when it comes to your money. When you commit to this plan and you go all in on it, you get the full benefit of the plan and it's all that it could be and all that it should be. But when you take Sundays and you're like, on Sundays, that's when I, you know, I don't know, use my credit cards.

And on Sundays, that's, so it's like, you get some of it, you're paying use my credit cards. And on Sundays, that's so it's like you get some of it. You're paying off the cars. You're doing that. That's great. I would love for you to go fully committed to this plan and see what happens next. Great stuff. You said in that call, it's like a bad song. You can't get out of your head.

My nomination. You can't touch this. It's the hammer. Great hour, Jane. James, our fearless leader and you, the people. This is the Ramsey Show.