The Ramsey Show - App - How Do You Help a Friend That Makes Bad Financial Decisions? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Getting my live-in girlfriend to pay off debt, Using donor advised funds for giving, Buying a rental property, Helping a friend get out of debt.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth. Created more millionaires by showing them how and causing them to do it than most anybody else out there. We help people do work that they love. Find a place to make a lot more money and doing something you actually love. We help people create and maintain actual amazing relationships as opposed to digital relationships.

Did anybody ever tell you those friends on Facebook aren't real friends? Well, maybe someone should tell you that. They're not your real friends. But, Dave, they really like my cat. They like your cat laser pictures. They won't show up at 2 in the morning when your tire's flat. I'll just tell you that. That's true.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money. Starting off this hour is David in Boise, Idaho. Hi, David. How are you? Hey, fellas. How are you all doing?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? So, my question comes, I'm looking for some advice. I'm in this eight-year beautiful relationship with the woman of my dreams, and she's very much the free spirit and I'm very much the nerd. And I'm trying to reel all of that in. I've got the bug for getting debt free. I think we accumulated probably about $60,000 in debt.

We both, you know, I think we're bringing about $10,000 a month. But she's an in-the-moment person, and I'm trying to... She wants me to do it first, and then she'll jump on board once she sees me start tackling it, and then she said she will join me. But I'm finding that very frustrating in the sense that she'll blow through some paychecks

and then i'm dipping more into my budget than than i need to be doing so i guess my question would be how do i how do i i mean is that possible because i find it it's just frustrating it's causing more fights than anything how old are you uh we're both 38 okay all right well um let me first uh let's reset the stage there's not a we you're not married right you're having an argument with your roommate about how your roommate handles money and that's that's that is a relational problem but it's also a financial problem because it's very, very difficult to pretend like you're married financially when you're not because the whole dynamic has shifted because there's all the legalities involved. You know, there's no incentives involved. You're still just shacking up, and you're 38 years old.

And so you're really going to struggle trying to pull this together and act like it's marriage when it's not. I'll just tell you from 30 years of coaching people, that's the truth. I'm not trying to pick on you or tell you you're doing something wrong. I'm just telling you it's a very difficult dynamic to pull off. So what I would do is eight years, you know, You're asking us what we would do Here's what we would do Here's what we'd tell you to do

If you're my son I've got a daughter your age If you were my son I would say here's the thing to do Eight years long enough time to paint or get off the ladder You know You need to decide whether this is real Whether it's going to go forward or not We're not just shacking up for sex now

This is a real thing And so we've got to make a call here That's what I would tell my son If he asked me This is real. Whether it's going to go forward or not, we're not just shacking up for sex now. This is a real thing. And so we've got to make a call here. That's what I would tell my son if he asked me. And he was your age. And so you're going to struggle to prosper relationally until you make that call, and you're going to struggle to prosper financially and with the arithmetic while you're trying to make that call. Because she's legally got a set of responsibilities.

You legally have a set of responsibilities, and they legally are not combined. The law, all of the people you do business with, everyone recognizes you only as two individuals instead of one household unit, and yet you use the words we like your income is somehow combined. It is not. You have zero legal access to each other's income at this stage of the game so that's what i would tell you to do number one number two then is as a part of that process get some good pre-marriage counseling and start to work on these differences in your identities and in the way you're approaching money there's nothing

wrong with one of you being a free spirit and one of you being the nerd as a matter of fact that's most couples that have successful marriages they learn to navigate all of that but when we as a husband and wife have a vision for the future and we are committing to becoming and staying debt-free so that we can travel the world buy nice cars be unbelievably generous and retire with dignity change our family tree then we need to stick to the plan that we both agreed to but there's not a we right now yeah and i'm going to go back to something you said david uh dave dave gave you the father advice i'm going to be your big brother for a moment uh you said that her response to this was well i want to see you do it see you live out the baby steps

and then i'll get on board so my quick question i got a couple things here are you living it out are you attempting to do it with your paycheck yes and so she's seen you do it she's seen you do it for how long i've been going steady for about six months okay so for six months right so she's seen you do it for six months and she's still on the sidelines as your older brother for just this call i have some real concerns here because the woman of your dreams could be the woman of your nightmares if she doesn't get on board here and i appreciate what dave is saying but i gotta tell you um i would be having a serious conversation uh before you decide to get married,

even before you go into premarital counseling. And I think it comes down to this. I think you've got to stop trying to convince her, and I think you've got to harness her dreams in this conversation and cast some vision. And it's a simple construct. Hey, here's the problem in the way that you're living with your money. This is what it's going to lead to

this is what it's gotten you to here's the solution this process i've learned over here and if we do this it's going to give us financial peace and then our dreams can be bigger than ever and we can do this dave i gotta tell you i want him i want to know if she's going to catch this vision before they even get serious about marriage because that really concerns me because of the the rate of divorce you know if she can't get on board with this yeah you got well that's what i'm saying in pre-marriage counseling yeah or some other way you've got to get on the same page um or this is going to end poorly because by the way it's going to end poorly anyway that's right if we don't fix this it's just going to be

an ugly breakup that's correct you know and now we're going to be fighting over who gets the mustard because we got confused about who had who what where the condiments in the refrigerator came from you know i mean mayonnaise is mine dadgummit and so you know i mean that that's what you and that's how you fight with your roommate you don't end up fighting with your spouse that way that's right it's a different fight with your spouse so yeah you you guys need to be going okay where do we want to go financially with our lives and what is the best route to get there not i'm your daddy and you need to behave yeah not you have to prove it to me because i don't think you can do it and i think this is unrealistic and i think you're going to fall off the wagon and then I'm going to have an excuse to not follow through

instead look at it and go as a couple where do we want to be in 40 years and what are our steps to get there I did pick 40 years not so randomly yesterday was my 40th if you haven't seen the picture go to Dave Dave's Instagram account. It is, first of all, she's absolutely beautiful. And the amount of hair you had, plus the ascot. I was a pretty good salesman, I'm just saying. Can you imagine all the stuff we've been through? Two hillbillies fighting for 40 years. Oh my God.

Brutal. This is the Ramsey Show. Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family, that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men. This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes, and in many cases are the breadwinners and take care of their families 24 hours a day. This is one of the most overlooked areas when it comes to financial planning. Maybe it's a relic of the past, but a loss of income or the need to replace family care is equally important for women as it is for men. Single moms, working moms, and stay-at-home moms all need term life insurance. Rates are actually lower for

women, which is why I send you to Zander Insurance. They shop the top term life companies to find the lowest rates available. You can compare rates online at Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is something every family has to deal with. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Mark's with us in St. Louis. Hey, Mark, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking the call. Sure. What's up? I was wondering about donor-advised funds

and trying to use that as a way to be able to increase the amount of giving we're doing as a family as well as for the kind of one-time giving if there's just something that comes up having a good area where funds are growing to be able to give out of one of my mentors had told me it was a way that him and his wife had up to there giving by about 50% when they started doing it and hadn't heard it mentioned at all on the show before. Okay. Well, they're excellent. There are several excellent ones out there that do a good job. The concept of donor-advised funds is obviously you are the donor.

You're placing money into an account, and you have to advise the fund where the money is to be given to um and it has to be to a 501c3 in that case okay so yeah otherwise if you don't then it's not gonna there's no tax advantage to it whatsoever uh you'll get yourself in a pinch so you you know it's all the 501c3 it does not increase giving unless you just increase your giving. It's just a vehicle through which you pass money directly to the nonprofits. The only big difference is it encourages you to keep it top of mind giving, and it helps you systematize your giving somewhat, which is all good. And, to your point earlier it allows you

to hold money past the calendar year and so if you don't want to give if you don't have a a ministry or a non-profit picked out that you want to give it to and you want to put fifty thousand dollars aside in december you can do that and write that off as a charitable gift and then decide later who to give it to but it has to be given to a non-profit in that process does that make sense yeah absolutely absolutely confirm what you've been told is just uh no that sounds very similar to it he's that he was saying that increase in giving was as much that once you've put it into the fund, there's no longer that hesitation of it's coming out of your checkbook, so it was more of an intentional,

if I put this much in on a monthly basis, you don't accidentally book that trip with the money that you're planning on giving. Good. Okay, I agree with that. But, I mean, once I set money aside for giving in my mind, it's gone. I no longer emotionally struggle with that, but I'm so freaking compartmentalized after all the years of doing it and so we we moved in the direction of a personal foundation which is the next step up uh much more expensive to operate much more expensive to put in place

donor advice funds cost almost nothing to run and so um but we wanted to be able to do some things with some individuals like a single mom or something like that, buy somebody a car that was struggling or something like that without them having to be a 501c3. And so donor advised wouldn't work for that plan, but it works perfectly for what you're talking about, and it is a really good intermediate step for your first level of outrageous generosity. It's much better than just leaving the money sitting in a checking account and accidentally buying a couch with it. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, and then I think we're on the side, like if it's a give somebody the car type option,

let's just run those out of the checking account and do it as a gift donation right off on those. Instead, if we're not, I mean, just my wife and I, we're not anywhere near the level of a foundation at this point in time. Yeah, it's a really good first step. And there's two or three that have been around a long time. They've been very popular in the evangelical Christian community. Larry Burkett, Ron Blue both made them popular, have served on some of the boards.

They're both friends or were friends. Larry's past, but Ron is still a good friend. That's the first time I ever heard about it. And the Generous Giving guys out of Chattanooga, Tennessee, do a lot of work with outrageous generosity as well particularly in the faith spectrum and they've been tied into some of the donor advised funds it's a really good way to look at it so it's a good question thanks for calling us can the giving part of what we teach is essential to winning because it releases you

um if you can compartmentalize it like i'm talking about or you move the money over into that there's something that happens once you decide the money's not yours yeah well and your behavior as you said we've decided we're going to give this much and so we live differently uh we begin to see the return on investment in a different category when we're really giving intentionally you begin to go wow this is legacy stuff, not just 401k mutual fund stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it really does change your entire perspective. And you know what's interesting is that I think that you in some way set yourself up, and I don't want this to be misunderstood, that if I give, I'm going to make more money.

I don't believe that as an action. But I do believe that your behavior changes and your perspective changes so much that there's a good chance you're going to end up making more money because of that uh change in perspective and belief well i mean let's just face it we all can smell a taker versus a giver that's a good way of saying that yeah and when you are a giver physically logistically uh it way of saying that, yeah. And when you are a giver physically, logistically, it changes the way you smell. It changes the way you walk.

It changes the way you smile. You're the person that opens the door for somebody that's got their arms full of stuff, you know? The taker just runs through and doesn't even notice they're there. And at different times in my life, I've been more one than the other. Sure. So it's okay wherever you start out. But generosity is not a

magical dna factor it's a decision yes that's correct and it just really puts into motion as you said it's a likability factor you just have a spirit about you and who tends to get promoted people that are takers or people that are givers givers i mean in corporate america where there's politics maybe the taker that's That's true. Or maybe on an HBO special. For a season. The takers can get ahead for a while, but it comes back. It does. It really does.

And the boomerang effect is bloody. It's bad. But the giver is who, you know, if you're leading two people and you have the perception of wisdom and you actually believe as their leader, one of them is a giver and one of them is a taker, you're going to promote the giver every time because you know they're going to prosper the people under them, that they're leading, the customers that they're serving, they're going to prosper them. They're all about generosity.

And that generosity, just the way they hold their face is different. Yes. It's everything, and it changes everything. So, yeah, it's an act you want to intentionally plug into, and that's the process. It's fun. And important to point out, too, for those of you that are right now, Baby Step 2, Gazelle Intense, you can still give of your time

and you can give of your talents in this season. Mario is with us in New York City. Hey, Mario, what's up? Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. How can we help? Yeah, I'm 46 years old. I'll be turning 47 in a couple of months. And my question is this.

Apparently, I had a house where we live in right now, and I had a 30-year mortgage. I ended up paying that off in about 12 years and I paid off the mortgage about a year and a half ago. So I have about 1.3 sitting in the bank right now in cash. I have about $275,000 in the stock market with the 10 or about 15 to 20% correction that we already had. And I'm in the market and I found this property, which is about a four family home, will produce about $7,000 a month in rental. And it costs 1.2 million, and I was thinking to purchase it all cash, $1.2 million cash, and then that would leave me with $90,000 in the savings account for emergency fund. And it's kind of a...

What's your household income? $350,000. Okay. I would want to build your retained earnings up more quickly if you drain yourself down this far on one property. Because if you have a major event at that property, a loss of rent or a repair, you could really get yourself in a pinch there.

That's pretty tight. But if you're going to write a check and pay cash for it, for God's sakes, offer them a low ball number. Try to get a deal on it. You know, I'm going to shoot it. Anytime I buy investment property, I'm trying to buy it at a deal. I'm trying to write a check for cash. I can close it Friday, but it's going to have to be a deal.

Otherwise, I don't do it. And I made a lot of money doing that with rental properties. So, yeah, that's where you want to start. I would buy it, but I want you to build that return to earnings back up as fast as possible. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Phil and Mary are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Good, Dave. Great.

Where do you guys live? Rockford, Illinois. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how. Where do you guys live? Rockford, Illinois. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off? Paid off $45,000 in 17 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? About 90 to 100. Good for you guys. Cool. What kind of debt was the $45,000? We had two cars. We had a little bit of a student loan, and we had some house remodeling. Ah, okay, cool. How long have you all been married?

Twelve years. I'll let her answer that. Well played. Okay, so after 12 years of marriage, 18, 24 months ago, you look up and say, something's got to change. Tell me the story. What happened? Kind of a two-parter, Dave.

It's okay. Big day. Kind of a two-parter. Initially, we were doing day fish. We had about $150,000 in debt. And our youngest was one, and our second was on his way. And I looked at the budget, and I said, I don't know how we're going to afford daycare.

But just miraculously, I coach football and one of the coaches just happened to mention that him and his wife were almost debt-free. And I started thinking about, like, wow, you can actually be debt-free? You know, how does that work? And I also bartend. And, uh, so one night I got off a shift and I was driving home and I flipped on the radio and

I just caught some guys debt-free scream, very powerful, uh, started tearing up almost like I am right now, you know, and, uh, listened and listened. And, uh, I said, I think we've got to do this. And so eventually we signed up for the course, and it's just been peddled down since. We really committed 17 months ago. So that was Dave-ish, and it was a pretty hard Dave-ish. But 17 months ago, we had a huge hailst storm and had some damage to our house. And so, you know, we only had $15,000 of that initial debt left. We had some margin in our budget, started to feel comfortable. And with the hail damage, we took advantage.

We thought, oh, we can put some money into the house now, get a new front door, get some new siding. And the guy said, yeah, no problem. We have financing. And the real kick, you know, the punch to the gut, I got in the mail, I got a credit card. And I, I just thought, I just thought we're not, we're not doing it. We're not doing it again. It's over. So 17 months of a sprint. You know, I've been trying to think of analogies, listen to the show a lot,

and heard a lot of people give some good analogies about teamwork and what it takes. And I thought of it as a sack race where one person couldn't just run. We had to do it as a team. And so we did that. And the last 17 months, though, we both just run. We had to do it as a team. And so we did that. And the last 17 months, though, we both just ran as fast as... Just wide open. Mary, where's that emotion coming from from him?

You've been in this journey with him. He just worked really, really hard and sacrificed a lot for our family during this time yeah so a lot a lot of time away from you and the kids oh and it's worth it now yeah and that's the emotion definitely yeah and that makes you never go back never never never never never yeah wow very cool so when somebody asks how you not pay off 45 000 in 17 months what do you tell them the secret is well working together i think you gotta have the same goals and you gotta be um on pace with each other we have to you had to coordinate um a lot with work schedules and with the kids and i don't

think we could have done that if we didn't have the same goals. Yeah. I think you got to be humble and just tell friends, I can't afford that. And yes to work. Yes to work. Yes to work. Yes to work. I heard you say one time, Dave, just draw a line in the sand. And if I never borrow money again, we'll get there. And that was always in the back as a fail safe. And we just worked from there there just kept going from there we're not borrowing money we're going forward yeah what's uh what's the option what's the option what's the option there's got to be another way yeah gotta be another two options stink i'm gonna find a third option there you go there you go keep keep looking till one of them doesn't stink yep that's good well done guys very very very well done so if if some guy's driving home from his extra job and happens to turn on the podcast later,

and it's got you on here talking about you driving home from the bartending job and kind of being overwhelmed by that story, what do you tell them that the – what happens inside of you when you really do reach that point where you really are sick and tired of being sick and tired? Because, dude, I watched you physically change right in front of me when you started talking about that. I think for me, I just felt suffocated. I just felt like I worked more, you know, having three different jobs. I worked with a lot of different people, and I worked a lot more hours than other people.

And we didn't have anything to show for it, and I didn't even realize how much debt we had until we looked at the budget and put it down. We had 15 different people that we owed money to. It was amazing. I had no idea that we had owed that much money to that many different people. And that is overwhelming. That's not a place that I want to be many different people. And that is overwhelming. That's not a place that I want to be or I want my kids to ever be.

Amen. Well done. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? Definitely our in-laws over here. They helped out a ton with child care and were very supportive of me going to work quite a bit. And then a friend of mine, Corey Whitakerory whittaker he's debt free as well really helped support me then i got a friend keegan hill who's a who's kind of my accountability buddy i'd tell him every time we ended the debt and he was a good good guy i love that so you're

a football coach yeah when you were having those tough days beyond just the the the vision for the future for you and your family how did that coaching come into play when you just didn't think you had any more to give um boy that's that's hard to say i think i was really focused with um with football there were definitely things that i would say the younger coaches can tend to um but with the kids um and my kids I you know I always stress we're going to take care of what we can take care of we're going to be the toughest guys on the field and that's the way we're going to handle ourselves love that well done good stuff guys way to go I'm proud of you thank you how's it feel to be free

great it's awesome. Yeah. Good. Well, we've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. How ordinary people built extraordinary wealth, how you can too. And a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away. And the Financial Peace University membership for a year. And you can give that away to somebody or you can go through it. It's all 20 it's all the brand new videos that we just launched the other day all right you brought

the kiddos let's bring them up what are their names and ages we have bria who's seven and nolan who's five all right have they been practicing their debt-free scream yeah all right good stuff i love it well done you guys all right it's b Bria Nolan, Mary, and Phil from Rockford, Illinois. $45,000 paid off in 17 months, making $90,000 to $100,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

Yeah! I love it. That is absolutely wonderful man what a what an incredible story very well done yeah you know it's it's really awesome dave to look over there and see a man's man a football coach just totally brought to his knees and gratitude those those those were tears of gratitude and appreciation uh to make it through this journey and be on the other side of that. And just that's pretty cool. That's about as manly of a man you'll ever meet right there.

And we need more of that. You know, that's incredible stuff. Stuff it takes to serve his family and, you know, make sure stuff gets done. Yeah. Very, very well done. Good stuff, guys. Very, very well done. Good stuff, guys. Very, very well done. You only change your life when you finally say, I've had it.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. There's no amount of intellectual gymnastics that are going to make you get out of debt. You got to get pissed off. I'm done. I'm not living like this that's when you change not until this is the ramsey show Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author. Well, inflation is affecting all of you right now, from the gas pump to the grocery store.

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Start budgeting for free by going to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar. This is the Ramsey Show. We're glad you're with us, America. Patty is with us in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Patty. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I have a dear friend who is recently divorced, and I'm trying to help her go through your baby steps. I've walked her through them. I've tried to explain everything to her, but I'm really stumped on advising her in one area, and I was hoping you could help me advise her correctly.

Because of the divorce, she has to refinance her house. She has could help me advise her correctly. Because of the divorce, she has to refinance her house. She has to put it in her name and she has a car that she's upside down on. And by your plan, it tells me sell the car, right? But she's $5,000 underwater on the car, even if she does private sell sell and she doesn't have any money at all to buy a car so she would have to borrow even a couple thousand to buy another car so i don't know if i should have her roll this into her baby stats like just put it on the list of her debt she has eight thousand dollars of additional debt besides this car and her house. Or if I should have her roll it into her house, which you always say you don't do, so I feel really uncomfortable telling her that. But I'm just not sure how to advise her

the best way to go about this. Well, I'm glad she's got you in her corner. Obviously, it's a hard time for her. She got little kids? She does. She has an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old. And her house is worth $390,000, but to refinance it, she has to refinance for $165,000. The requirement was she had to get her ex-husband's name off the loan. What does she make so working two jobs with child

support and renting a room out her house she's bringing in 43 000 a year she's stretched really thin time-wise like she's just really she was really taken by surprise and had no idea about finances she's not going to like my answer but it is the right answer for her okay she cannot afford this house well so i thought about that and like the problem i have with that is i didn't ask about your problem i said she can't afford the house no i know that the market though and for her to even rent like her house she can't afford she makes 45 000 a year and the only way it works is if the roommate pays their rent and her ex who surprised her before pays child support there's a lot of variables here that are going to cause her to get in trouble. So do I advise her to sell the house? Pay all the debt off.

Pay all the debt off, buy a car for cash, and go rent the cheapest thing possible and heal from this process, rebuild a career where she makes more money. Obviously, she's going to do that long term. Right. But this house, here's what happens, and i've seen this for 30 years and it just breaks my heart but and let me tell you what's going through her mind maybe even yours is these poor children have been through so much already and they're hurting and in order to protect them from even more up evil and more change dad's no longer there

there's all this weirdness in their lives for god's sakes we don't want to change school districts and we don't want to make you move out of your bedroom and in the name of that she's trying to hang on to the last vestige of normalcy that she can in a way that is completely unrealistic were she not in this house and was sitting with this pile of money from the equity in the house in the middle of a kitchen table, she would no more go buy this house than fly to the moon. True. This is trying to maintain the story that was and the story that's gone.

Okay. And I appreciate her mama bear instincts to do that for her baby but it's a it's a short-term fix because what what she's trading for is tremendous financial stress in these kids lives in the coming five years and everything's in order for it to be normal she's going to be so spun up trying to keep everything you're trying to run around keeping different fingers stuck in the dike as the dam continues to leak. And it's just going to get worse and worse and worse. And I'm sorry, I've just seen it hundreds and hundreds of times.

And it took me a little while to realize why people were doing this illogical act, but it was in the name of protecting some stream of continuity in the middle of a a complete upheaval where their their their story that was going to be their life is completely changed and it's been a nightmare for her and for the kids and the last thing i want to do is make a move i'm sorry i i wouldn't do that does she then take some of that equity and get herself some sort of, like I had her do Ken Coleman's career. Yes, yes. Like get some sort of whatever certification or whatever. Yes, yes.

To increase her income. Okay. That's an investment. And go double her income. Yes. Okay. Listen, a house is not a home. A home is where you make it.

Right. And when home is full of financial stress following a divorce it is very difficult to stay on an even keel and even be somewhat classy about the ex because you every time you're in a pinch you're just pissed again it's just very hard to go through the healing process when you pile financial stress on top of the mess that's right you're surviving instead of healing yeah you have one track mind survive survive survive it's all adrenaline you can't heal and i don't know if i've talked you into it or her into it because she's going to look out there and go well what about this and what about that i think you rent

the cheapest thing possible buy you a cash car spend some money on some certifications on a career track, and five years from today, you're going to be in a much better place than you are trying to hang on by your last fingernail on this one old house. And it's just a stupid house. It was the home, but now it represents the dream that was, the broken heart. Yeah, Patty, hang on the line. We're going to give you a copy of my best-selling book, From Paycheck to Purpose. She's not ready to read this now.

But when she gets everything settled financially and they get out of there, give her this book. It's kind of the companion to the Get Clear Assessment. It'll help her begin to take steps forward to a much better financial life because of her income and independence. So hang on the line. We'll give that to you as well. I'll take one more stab at the persuasion, Patty, because here's what's running through my mind. She's got seven years with this 11-year-old.

Where are they going to be in seven years if they do what I'm talking about? And what does the next seven years feel like inside the home? Is it peaceful, joyful, hope-filled for the future or is it stressed and freaked out and barely making it all in the name of trying to hold something together that was the past and um i think that 11 year old is going to have a much better teenage set of teenage years with a mom who's peaceful stable building her whole new life, building a whole new dream, getting her certifications, moving towards home ownership again in the future, doesn't have a debt in the world, and is dealing from strength and courage

rather than a mom that's hanging on by a thread, barely making it, hoping the child support comes in, and hoping the roommate pays. Man, that just doesn't sound like fun to me. And that's this 11-year-old's's next seven years where does he need to live what's best for him and what's best for the other one the next eight years nine years whatever 10 years from today this lady's going to be in a great life but she's either going to have walked through more hell to get there or she's going going to have taken two or three steps back to solid ground to start fresh again. And that's what my hope for her is.

And I'm sorry she's going through this. It's just not good. Divorce just is bad. It just messes up everything, man. It's horrible. So sorry. So sorry. Hey, thanks for the call.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. Austin Shelby, Ben Hill, Zach Hendron, Andrew Holmes, James, and Kelly in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.