The Ramsey Show - App - How Far Do We Go To Pay Off Debt? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing, real relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. I am joined by Ken Coleman. We're your hosts for the day. And we want you to give us a call, 888-825-5225 is the number. We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about

as long as it has to do with your life, your money, and your career. We came off of a really great weekend, Smart Conference weekend. We've got a lot of other great events coming up and just a lot of great resources available to people. So we want to encourage you to dive in. Man, this is a community over here at Ramsey Solutions. We've got the Baby Steps group on Facebook. Join some of our social media pages, Instagram. We are talking to you guys in real life. It's not a bunch of other people

doing our accounts all the time. We're there for you and we want to interact with you. We want you to head to the website and see things that are helpful for you, that will help you grow. We want you to engage in these webinars. There are so many opportunities for you to learn and grow and truly get connected to something. And when it comes to your money and really just making that. It's a very good point. You know what I mean? And you need to be connecting with the Ramsey personalities, all of us on our social as we're out there encouraging you and equipping you. So at Jade Warshaw, she's doing some incredible stuff on Instagram and all the other socials.

And don't forget the shows, the other shows that we have in the Ramsey Network, the Ken Coleman Show. That's right. Okay, I didn't hear a lot of work calls today. Anybody asking, that's all good. Head over to the Ken Coleman Show anywhere you listen to podcasts or on YouTube and also on Sirius XM. So we're here. We've got a lot going on. RamseySolutions.com is a wonderful resource

for you to find out where I can learn more about the specific area of need where I've got some challenges and I'm looking for solutions. That's why we call ourselves Ramsey Solutions. So RamseySolutions.com is the website. And the solutions run deep. By the way, I want to point out while we can, you and I are back together again on Thursday. So for you appointment listening folks, you don't want to miss this. Jade is working up one of her specialty pieces of content here where it hits you where it matters most, your grocery budget, your grocery bills. And I just get to tag along and sample and eat and opine, if you will. Opine.

Opine. For those of you that are under the age of 40, opine means give my opinion on generic versus brand name. We're going to do a little budgeting segment. This will be about budgeting. That's really what this is. Yes, how you spend your money. And spending.

So you don't want to miss that. I'm told it's going to be great fun it is going to be great fun we're going to have a jolly good time what are we going to do uh you know i think i'm still is it food based yeah it's food based we're going to do generic versus store brand and we're going to do some food items some drink items and some like home good items and we'll test them out we'll test out did they post james our last time we did this on the YouTube channel if they were to search it? Is it up there? No, it's so long ago. I don't remember. So long ago. See, that's a shame. We sampled ketchup, name brand ketchup, name brand cookies. So you had the cheap Oreos, the fake, the knockoff, and then the real Oreos and then some ketchup. And I went through that

whole scenario and it was great fun for me. and we're gonna choose uh we're gonna choose items that really do have a big margin between the markup you know what i'm saying so it won't just be oh this is 20 cents different we're gonna try to pick the things that have a big we are here for you yeah we're here for you i'm willing to eat on the air in order to help you folks this is the sacrifice that a man of the people is willing to make jade, but let's also be clear. If you're in Baby Step 2, you're going with the twist and shout. It doesn't matter

if Oreos taste better. I agree. You're going with twist and shout. You better. Yeah, you have to. But for those of us who are just not, maybe not in Baby Step 2

and we're trying to do better with our budget, but should we make the trade-off, then you have a little bit more of a choice. So that's how that works. Join us on Thursday. We'll be doing that.

Let's go to the phone lines, Ken. We got Will in Los Angeles. What's going on? California love. I always wanted to do that. Oh, I love that. I'm sorry. I should be beatboxing, but I don't know how.

Sorry, Will. We can't help ourselves. No. How can we help you? Hi, guys. It's nice to talk with you guys. You too. What's up?

Yep. Okay. So my wife and I, we bought our first home back in 2019. When the pandemic came and the interest rates bottomed out, we refinanced to a really low rate of 1.75% on a 15-year fixed. We have enough money now in our taxable investment accounts to pay off the mortgage. Sweet. So my question is, should we pay it off? And I'm just hesitant because, you know, we have a low interest rate, you know, and some of

our money in that is invested in assets that are making, you know, 3x or 4x that interest rate. So the money that you'd be pulling out, it's non-retirement funds, correct? Correct. Yeah. And how much are we talking? We have about $475,000 left on the loan. We have $600,000 in our retirement account. So it is a retirement account? Well, sorry, sorry. In our brokerage account. Okay. So there's $600,000 in the brokerage account. What's in your retirement funds? We have 425 K. Okay. And there's no other debt? There's no other debt. I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at paying off the

home because if you really flipped it around, you wouldn't borrow money in order to invest it. And that's really what we're, that's really the crux of this argument. Now, the key here is there's going to be taxes on this money when you go to sell your stocks and whatnot. And so you've got to be prepared for that. I'd say that's the big portion of this if you make this choice, which if there's no other debt,

do you have three to six months of expenses saved? Yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, I'm not, I'm Yeah, I'm not mad at that. How old are you? We're 34. I'd do it. I'd be debt-free. That's my story.

I'm sticking to it. Yeah, I'm not about to disagree with you. Yeah, you look like you had a funny look on your face. That's why. No, no, I'm just sitting there thinking about the mindset here coming out of this. And so anytime we give financial advice, I want you to be thinking, I think I agree with what you're saying. What I'm thinking there is, do you get it, Will? Are you on board with it? And do you understand what's on the other side of this? I mean, it was his idea. I know, but I mean, are you all in?

You just wanted a nudge, or were you back and forth? I did want a nudge. If you asked me back in 2019, I would have said, okay, yeah, let's pay this house off in 7 to 10 years. Times come where we're able to, and the fact that the interest rates have spiked and we're paying a low rate and we're making a lot in fixed income assets makes me question it. And then the second thing is also behavioral.

If we wanted to move into a bigger house sometime down the road, what's the recommendation for going about that? Do we want to pay all cash for that or is it okay to take out, you know, like a smaller mortgage to kind of cover the difference between whatever equity we have in this home versus a bigger home? Yeah, that's a really good question. And what's your income, by the way? Because in your case, what's your income? Our gross is $450-ish. $450? Yeah. Yeah. In your case, for sure, the next house you buy, I would buy in cash. There's no reason in the world, especially if you're paying this one off, when you go to sell the house, you're getting all that back. Plus, you've got plenty of time to save if you wanted to upgrade. That's definitely the move I would make. And like I said before, the question that you're

asking yourself is, if you were debt-free, you not borrow $475 to invest. You would prefer to be debt free. And so that's really the equation that we're working with. And I just think it's exciting that you have this option. You've obviously done a great job in saving and now you've got this money to show for it. So congratulations, you're weird people. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Ken Coleman. And we're so grateful for you guys. You're the ones that keep us going. The whole reason we have a show is because you guys listen, right? So keep listening. And not only that, but we'd love for you to share the show with somebody else. If this has changed your life, or maybe you just find it entertaining, go ahead and hit the like button or subscribe to it. Either of those things

would help us so, so much. Like, share, subscribe. It'll help kick us up in the algorithm and help other people see the show and get access to this content. So we would love it if you guys would do that today, wherever you listen to the show you know you can text it to somebody you could even text your favorite episode that would work and we'd be so grateful if you did that uh in the meantime let's go to the phone lines if you'd like to talk to us you can call us at 888-825-5225 but for now we're going to go to michael who is in the city where i was born ken colman where is this spokane washington no. No kidding. That's right. What's going on, Michael?

You learn something new every day. Hey, guys. How are you? Doing good. How are you? I'm doing awesome. First off, I just wanted to thank you guys so much for what you do. You guys, just listening to you and stuff, I went through a divorce about 10, 12 years

ago, and I had to start all the way over on this side of the mountains again. I'm actually, you know, a little smaller town south of Spokane, but I ended up paying a $300,000 loan off in just under seven years. And that's because you guys just, you know, listening to you and just, you know, after I started listening to what you're doing, I started just pounding the pavement and just taking every dime that I had and putting big balloon payments, $10,000, $20,000 payments towards the house. And it was amazing how fast it went off. And then I sold the car and said,

okay, I got to get this thing paid off. So, but the question I have, now that I'm just totally debt free, I bumped up my, I have a retirement from our union, but, um, which will pay me, you know, X amount of dollars a year for every year we have in, but I have, you know, we have 401k on top of that, which we just recently were allowed to do, you know, the Roth here in the last month or two. And so I started putting the money into the Roth instead of the 401. And, you know, you can do, what is it, $22,000 and then the extra $8,000 catch up.

Yeah. So I've been just putting 25% of my income into that. Well, that's going to be, I just started doing that in the last month or two. Well, that's going to max out pretty quick now. So did I just take that extra money and, you know, keep putting it in the bank or keep putting that like in the stock market? I'd probably go to a Roth IRA once you maxed out your 401k. I'd probably switch over to a Roth IRA. Is it just you? Just me and my wife.

And yeah, and you could do the same thing for your wife. She could max out a Roth IRA. Does she have access to a 401k? No, she doesn't, not at this point. Okay. So yeah, I think that that'd probably be the next step. And if you're still like, hey, we've just got lots of money. And by the way, it depends on your income. You might have to do a backdoor Roth, but you could work with a smart investor pro on that. But yeah, once you max out that 401k, move over. Since it's a Roth, by the way, for anybody else listening. Otherwise, we would say do a Roth IRA first and then maybe go to the 401k, especially if there is no match. But since his is a Roth to begin with, we'll max that

out. Then we'll move over to the Roth IRA. And if you still had money left over, you could go over to an HSA, which is great, especially it's part of a high deductible insurance plan. So if you have access to that, I'd do that. Do you have access to that?

Honestly, I don't even know what that is. I'm kind of stupid with the stock stuff. No, it's not that at all. Not at all. Let me tell you. Hey, if it makes you feel any better, Michael,

I have no idea what she's talking about. Well, let me tell you then, because let me put the cookies on the floor. I didn't know about HSAs until 2019, so we're right there even. An HSA, whenever you have an insurance plan that has a very high deductible, it usually allows you to have access to a savings account that's attached to it so that you could save up to actually pay the deductible. That's one of the perks of it. But an HSA is

basically it's a health savings account. It's an account that you can save money into, but it's great because it's tax advantaged in three different ways. You don't pay taxes on the money going in. It grows tax free and you're able to spend that money tax free on money on purchases that have to do with your health. So doctor's appointments, if you're buying, you know, prescription medicine, things like that. So that's what it is. If you have a high deductible health plan, you might want to inquire about that. If you don't, then the next place I'd go is probably look into a brokerage account. And a brokerage account is simply, it's just a kind of a catch-all account that you can invest.

It doesn't have to be used for retirement. So there's no penalty if you pull the money out for a certain purchase, whereas your retirement, obviously there would be a penalty if you were to pull the money out before retirement age. Does that make sense? It does. It totally does. We just last month, or sorry, last week, we visited my sister in Montana and we found a piece of property right next door to them. And my wife's like, let's buy the house. And she's always wanting to move over there. And so we were kind of thinking about doing that. And I'm like, oh, my God. You know, I just got, you know, it's comparable, maybe a little less than what we might be able to get off our house. So, I mean, it's kind of scary, especially since I just got debt free.

Of course. Yeah, I would say if you do that in addition to the house that you have now, I would only do it if I were going to pay cash for it. Okay. Because in that case, you're really treating it as an income property or as something extra. Now, if it were going to be your primary residence and you're going to sell the house you have now and then roll that into the next house and you'd have a sell the house you have now and then roll that into the next house and you'd have a small mortgage there's really nothing wrong with that

okay well that's kind of what i was thinking is i was going to call the guy and i've been trying to call him today actually to see if there's a way that we could put it on a small you know a short-term loan and then once we get the money from this house you know while we're doing some work on that place over there just move over there because i'm 60 years old and i was going to retire within a year anyway well i wouldn't do it that way i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't buy that house until you've sold your current house i wouldn't carry them both at once i would sell your house and then I would make the offer over there and I'd move over there and whatever you guys choose to do in the meantime. But I don't think that I

would buy it on debt because then you'd have to, does that make sense? You'd have to buy that house first. You don't want to have two debts? Well, your current house is paid off. Your current house is paid off, but I think that it creates, when you do it that way, it creates this idea of like, well, I don't have to do this right now. Like this was the plan, but we're doing this work. It ends up taking longer. I feel like in order for you to do this the right way

and do it the way you said you would do it, I would not buy that house until, I would only buy that house once you've sold your current house. Since you're going, you'd be going into debt for it with a mortgage. Okay. Okay. How do you feel about that? Yeah, I just, I, you know, what I didn't want to do is just move things twice. You know, there's nowhere to move all the stuff from my shop and the garages and stuff. The house is considerably smaller, even though we'll downsize. There's no garage there.

It's just more like a big log house. And, you know, it's got a carport, doesn't have a garage. There's really nowhere to put anything until we get there. I was hoping to be able to, you know, buy the place somehow, maybe on a short-term, you know, loan, and then like a balloon payment at the end of a year. No, I definitely wouldn't do that no i would never do that this is too much risk just because you haven't come up with a plan for your stuff exactly you're debt free you got this take your time breathe i'm not even sure you want

to make this move to be honest with you well me too i don't know that's that's a struggle i have as well hey i picked up on that. Good job, Ken. Listen. July 1st. Look, happy wife, happy life. I get it, all right? But I'd be having a conversation with the missus. I don't think you want to do this more than you'd like to have a hole drilled in your head.

He doesn't want to do it. Did you hear him? Yeah. I set him free. It was like that was the burp emotionally that he needed. Well, when he described the house, he was like, it's an old cabin and there's no place for my stuff. I'm like, oh.

I would be sitting down with the wife going, hey, how can we spend more quality time or we being you with your sister without me buying this place I don't want to live in? I think that's the conversation. Steak dinner, candlelight, maybe I'd offer some type of negotiation opportunity here. Oh, don't do it, Michael. You're going to resent the house and then eventually your wife. Yeah. Good pickup on that, Ken.

That was good. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, what's going on? You're listening to The Ramsey Show. am jade warshaw your co-host joined by ken coleman we're talking about your life your money your careers and we would love love love love if you gave us a call we want to talk to you directly 888-825-5225 is the number and so we're going to go to hussein who's in new bedford massachusetts what's going on, Hussein?

Hey, how you guys doing? Doing good. How are you? Good. Doing well, doing well. So what can we help you with? So I am currently a sophomore in college, double majoring in accounting and finance. Uh-oh, smart guy, smart guy alert. I try, I try.

And so my junior year, i plan on doing semester abroad this program it's called semester the master if you heard of it i have yeah nice yeah so apparently what i'm doing is so i'm doing like a regular job with a sidewriters. This one guy, like the sailboat fleet. And then I'm also like doing Uber Eats and I set up a goal for Uber Eats, which I'm doing. So I'm trying to do about like $20 a day. Okay. So if I do that for like a year, I'm trying to get about like $7,300.

And then I also have a full-time job in the summer where I'm a boat tender. Okay. So I do make like that decent money doing that. So I plan on making about like having about 13, $14,000 saved up. Okay. By spring of 2025. Okay.

And then, so the whole thing is about $40,000, which is pretty steep. So, and my family, it's like the efc is like zero so sorry the what is zero the efc for this trip what is that efc so i did like a financial aid estimator online for their website and i was told i was going to be getting about seven thousand dollars oh okay got it but instead you're not getting any no so like i put my efc at zero to 999 right so bottom line is if i let me let me help speed us along here hussein so if i'm hearing you right you think you're going to be able to make between 13 and 14 000 max before uh the time would come to pay for this, which is a $40,000 bill. Am I understanding you right?

So, yeah. So, I need, so the total bill is $30,000, but I need about $10,000 in cash. Okay. So, I'm just hoping, so I know I can get the tuition down to $20,000 with scholarships and financial aid and then have $10,000 to spend. So always ask me if you think it's worth it to take out a $20,000 loan. No, no, no, no, no. Let me ask a question before we go further into that. Is this the only time you can do this? And I'm totally ignorant as to this situation because I don't have kids in college yet. Is this the only semester that this is offered or could you do it in the future? i mean i'm graduating in

four years or in two years right and i do plan on getting my mba but i just feel like this is like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity i understand no hussein and i want you to have it i'm asking could we push this further into the next two years so that you have more time to save the money? I mean, I could do it the end of the last year, but I feel like the last year of college I'm going to be heavily trying to find internships and especially going to grad school, but that is a possibility. Of course it is. So, Jade, why is it that we are so anti him taking a $20,000 loan out to study overseas? Because it's debt. There it is. And it's going

to follow you and there's going to be interest and you're going to be on the hook for this. And here's what I can tell you from my own personal experience. In college, debt hits different. Like you think, oh, it's $20,000. Like when I get out, I'll be working and I'll be able to, you know, bring that money in and it's not going to feel it. But then reality hits and it's like, oh, I might not have gotten the job I thought I was going to get. And I didn't get it when I thought I was going to get it. And oh man, the cost of living is so much more expensive than I thought. And all these things start hitting you and you realize, man, that debt and that payment is more than I thought it was. That's thing one. Thing two is everything we do, every decision we make, we're setting a precedent and we're telling ourselves, this is

how I live my life. This is what I do. And so when you make the decision, I'm a person who takes out debt. That's what you're telling yourself. I'm a person who goes into debt to get the things that I want. And that is a very big line in the sand that you draw. And that's something that, that's a line in the sand I don't want you to draw. You have the opportunity here right now to decide, I'm a person who does not take out debt to get what I want. I'm a person who finds a way, who works hard and pays cash. And this is such a good time to decide that that's what you're going to be. Like you're in college. This is the time to make that decision.

Who's saying, what if I told you, what if I told you that you could save up the cash and pay for this amazing experience abroad? And I agree with you. I mean, this is a lifetime experience bucket list thing. Yeah. We want you to be able to go. I want you to have it. What if I told you you could save up the money for it and still line up a job and or internship and not come out of college with that degree and go, oh, I don't have anywhere to go. What if I told you both things were possible? What would you say back to me? Well, I'd be pretty amazed. Well, I'm telling you that's true.

So let's just play this out for a minute, okay? So how much longer would it take you, let's be realistic, to come up with the additional money? I mean, so currently I pay about like $9,000 to $10,000 for school this year. I've been working in the summer every single year. Wow. Sorry. I've been working all four seasons

just trying to pay for school. So I've been working and I don't have any student loans. I mean, I've been paying. Good for you. So let's just play this out. Yes, that's so good. How many more months?

I'm not holding you to this. I'm just getting your brain going because we're going to have to let you go in a few minutes and I want you to have the mindset and then something tactical to play off of how many more extra months uh would it take you to save up that additional money so that we pay cash for the semester abroad oh god um take a guess an educated guess you're a smart guy

probably an extra year great so now now we got a goal because here's what I want for you. I want you to come away from that semester abroad, coming back home going, that was amazing. And I don't owe a penny. And now I'm on with the rest of my life. And I feel like, like the minute I come back, I'm like, well, that was fun. But now I have $30,000 to pay, $20,000. Exactly. That's my point. And dude, this is you gutting it out, hustling for 12 months. And I think, hear me on this.

I think what you told me earlier when you were like, hey, my goal is to make 20 bucks a day. I think you could do so much better than that. Like with Uber, I think the summer, I think that you can earn far more than what you think you can earn. I know that you're a full-time student, but I think that you can find some things that pay better for part-time. And I think you need to dig into what you're already good at and passionate about in order to make that happen. That's where I'm going. Hussein, I'm just wondering, are you at a place where you could do some freelance, some contract accounting work? Oh, I mean, so I do have an internship lined up with PricewaterhouseCoopers.

No, I know. But hold on. Forget that. I'm saying, if I come to you with my little small business, I go, Hussein, I'm a disaster. Yeah, can you do some bookkeeping for me? Can you do some bookkeeping for me what would you say i would say i would say i could probably honestly start doing that end of this year because i'm first i'm starting to take okay so here's my point to jade's point that's the real money there you could start making way more than

uber eats and you're yeah are you working late and working early? Yes. But you could sleep when you die. You're young. And that's going to give you experience going into what you want to do after school, right? All of this is filtering into the experience. You know what I'm saying? This makes sense. We're not just doing Uber Eats, right? No, we're getting great experience. You're getting experience in the real world. I'm telling you. You know me, small business people. And by the way, not just in New Bedford. You know this, Hussein. I'm a dinosaur compared to you.

You could be doing stuff online, helping people around the world with your abilities. So you got to see Hussein the way that we see you. Oh, yeah. And that is a very intelligent young man who's got a plan, who's got some skill sets. He can make some cash. Come on. He's paid his way through college thus far. A major shout out, Hussein.

Major shout out. Major job. Way to go. This is a smart kid. Hussein, we are rooting for you. We see something in you, dude. You're going to be amazing. And you're going to do this abroad program and you're

going to do, you're going to pay cash for it. Make sure you send Jade and I a postcard. Ramsey Solutions Headquarters, send us a postcard, Hussein. Yeah. Love that. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Ken Coleman, our scripture and quote of the day, but you take courage. Do not let your hands be weak for your work shall be rewarded. That's 2 Chronicles 15.7.

And you know, our quote of the day, Ken, I think you need to read this one because you have the voice for it. Oh, is that right? Oh, yeah. Struggling with the voice these days. And so I'm down two octaves. James has got a sense of humor.

I'm never going to quit because quitting just ain't my shtick. I'm never, ever going to quit. Barry White. I wish I could get in Barry's category. I never will. But that's my best attempt. Thank you. Y'all be praying for the voice.

You know, speaking of. I need some lozenges. Speaking of never gonna quit. Never gonna quit. I gotta let you guys in on a conversation Ken and I were just having before the break. We were talking about college. Oh.

And we were talking about- I like this. You know, he's talking about his kids, which kids see things will go to college, which kids see things won't. I was telling him one of my regrets is I feel like I should have stopped college because it did not.

And I knew it. It was not feeding into where I was going. And I knew that it wasn't feeding into where I was going because I was a musician. And what was your major? Commercial music. But you didn't need it. You realize you didn't need it. I didn't need it. And I was learning more from my outside experiences because the thing with and maybe it was my

school. I mean, this is not for everybody. But the thing is, schools maybe it was my school i mean this is not for everybody but the thing is schools can only be so in the now you know what i mean like they can't buy everything new every single year so they're not always up to date so there's a lot of things that weren't quite up to snuff and when you actually get out there and you're doing the work you realize oh my gosh this is the operating you know this is how everybody's making music not like that here's what the jobs are really you know you're you're on the job, you know, this is how everybody's making music. Not like that. Here's what the jobs are really, you know, you're, you're on the job. So you're learning in real time. And that's just in certain fields, especially in the arts, it's invaluable.

And so I was saying, you know, I honestly probably would have gone back and maybe my sophomore year, I probably would have been like, oh, that's good. I'm done. I want people to hear the rest of that story. So you would have then only had how much debt? Oh, gosh. I probably would have come out with maybe 10, 10 or 15. And you traveled the world with Sam. You've sung in how many countries? Oh, over, let's see, 100, 200, 193.

And on major cruise lines, you name it, you've opened, you've done it. The reason I'm teeing you up, she would never tell you this, but I just, I'm pulling a fast one on my friend. Okay, pull a fast one. Because you, after our post-SMART conference dinner, you shared with me and Sam, your hubs, a story about a music teacher. Oh, I see where you're going take me there and then i'm i'm gonna tie it up but i want you to tell that story because it's very important it is important so

you know i think we all come across moments that we go that sucked that was hard and in the moment you think like this is the worst thing ever but you're glad it happened because it pushes you forward i don't remember did i tell you this story told me the story. You want me to set you up? The piano one? The old lady. Oh, I don't remember telling you this. Okay. Yeah. You come in there, you're all geeked up because you're nervous. It's a hard exam. Okay. So we do these things are called juries and you do it after every semester. And it's basically a chance for you to show your proficiency. So my jury that quarter was to show you can sight read, you can play this piece

you can play that piece so I think it consisted of four different areas where you show your proficiency oh this is fun real quick interaction we have three ladies in the lobby that are all music teachers or piano teachers and they're all shaking their heads oh this is great you guys are my backup singers on this this is great all right so this is a great story everybody gets this is really huge because a lot of people need to hear this story today. I promise you. So when you're sight reading, the whole point is you're getting a piece of music for the first time and you're showing how well you can read through it. Right. And so that's what happened. I get the site, the site reading piece and I start playing through it and I'm like, I'm doing pretty good. Of course, you're going to

stumble through it a little bit, right? Teachers. Yes. They're shaking their head. Yes. You're going to stumble through it a little bit, but the gist is, okay, you've got the gist of the piece and you can read. So after I did that, it was the last piece of the test. And I'm thinking, man, I just, I nailed that. I did a good job. Instead, so all the people in the jury, it's like the faculty heads. So my piano teacher, she says, well, you're a waste of time. And if you're not serious about this, you should quit now. And she's like just railing on me. And I'm thinking, what the heck? Like, what is happening?

So I'm like, tears are coming down my eyes. My husband is like peeking through the window to see how I'm doing. And when he hears this, he's just like, he sees that I'm just like shattered by this. I found out later that some of the other students got the sight reading piece ahead of time and they were able to look at it and see what it was. So they were more prepared. And I'm like, I literally just sight read it. So that's what happened.

She told me that I should probably choose a different major and clearly I wasn't serious about music and I was wasting their time and all these things now here's why now so I'm going to jump in because here's why I asked her to tell that story I didn't plan any of this but sometimes you just got to go with your gut and there are a lot of people out there that are listening watching today that you're still holding on to a voice like that that that that that stepped all over your heart 15 20 25 30 years ago and i don't know what was going wrong with that lady that day i'm not that old kim no i know you're not i'm just saying i'm just saying that lady stepped all over you because she had a complex or she had something going wrong in her life that day.

We're not telling the story to judge her, but we are telling the story to say that you can put yourself in front of some people sometime that are supposedly your instructors, your coaches, your guide, a person of influence, and they can crap all over you and put a voice in your head that takes you years, decades, sometimes never get over it. And all that to say, that's from an institution of higher learning. She could have dropped out, and she should have dropped out, according to Jade, because she went on to become an absolute freaking superstar. She could still sing her fanny off.

So I'm telling you, she didn't need that validation, but you were looking for it. And I've got to tell you, we're in a place in this world now where we are still telling kids that college is the only way to success and that's the biggest bunch of hot stinking garbage from hell oh and it's we got to get to the point folks where we look at it we go wait a second is this about is this about prestige or is this about preparation to do the thing that these young people want to do with their life? And are we as parents so worried about what everybody's going to say about us based on where our kid goes to school?

And I'm going to tell you what's coming down the pike. We are seeing a shortage in the trades, in manufacturing, and very soon you're going to see kids going straight from high school into the workforce. And if Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett could do it, your kid can do it. And we've got to wake up, America. It's not worth saddling these young people with decades of despair because of student loans. That's what it is. This is big business. Big business. And we've been told by the federal government and by private uh shysters that are putting student loans on the backs of young people that this is okay because it's the ticket to guaranteed success and the only thing that a student loan is guaranteeing is desperation despair

depression dysfunction you name it i'm sick of it it's time we stood up as the people and said to Washington, D.C., hey, you know what? Why don't we shut this program down? Or why don't we put some regulation in place to tell the colleges and universities that you've got to stop raising tuition? From 2010 to 2022, we saw college tuition raise at a 12.5% clip. Wow. Where inflation rose at 2.5%. That is price gouging, it's manipulation, and it's wrong. And we got to say enough is enough. That's a slow clap, Ken.

James, I'd say sorry, but I wouldn't mean it. I love it. That was great. Listen, it's time. It's time. Now listen, if it's the right way and the only way go for it but for heaven's sakes pay cash and we're here to help for heaven's sakes pay ken i'm sorry i know i apologize but your story fires me up because it makes me angry it makes me go you're gonna go into loan student loan debt to have some old battle axe who somebody

pissed in her cornflakes that morning and she craps all over your spirit look i mean that's just wrong folks i don't take it back because that fuel me my money back tennessee state that hey okay we're calling we're naming names up in here i didn't name her yeah but we named i remembered her name i was listening i was paying attention you think i was paying attention no you're paying attention all right look we're naming names up in this place and ken is right look but here's all that to say pay cash for college and at the end of the day look the words that folks say guys you can let it break you down or you can let it build you and you did you can use that as fuel so if you ever had anybody talk to you like that just know let it be your fuel man let it push you to keep going that's what sam and i did but um thanks for listening i'm proud of you friend ken i you got me fired up man you went

into like a johnny cochran mode that was great you're listening to the ramsey show that does it for this hour we'll see you next time hey what's up, guys? It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.