The Ramsey Show - App - How Long Should We Wait To Invest While Saving for a Home? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

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Thank you very much. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, and host of the ever-popular Dr. John Deloney podcast. Is my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money. It's a free call, and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. Mike is with us in Columbia, Missouri, to start this hour. Hey, Mike, what's up? Hey, Dave. First off, I want to say I've listened to your show for a while, and it's changed my life. So thank you for that. Thank you. I'm honored. Yeah, kind of facing a decision now.

I'm kind of looking to make a change in my career, and I'm looking at two jobs. Both of them are paying a little better than I'm making now, but the one kind of on the lower side. It has a better location. It has just a lot of intangibles that are great about the job as far as a good boss, be a part owner in the company. But on the other hand, I have another high-paying job that the location is kind of up in the air. It's a bigger company, and there's probably more room for advancement. I was just wanting to see kind of what you thought about that

as far as... What does each one pay? The lower-paying job pays about $80,000, and the higher-paying job, I could probably, within two or three years, probably make double that. Okay. Doing what in each case? They're sort of in the sales industry.

So you're a sales guy? Yeah, sales and consulting. Yeah, okay. So the intangibles must be pretty stinking high for you to be willing to take half pay. Yeah. Like I said, it's kind of my dream location. The boss is a really successful guy, and I think just being around him.

Yeah, but you're not going to be. I don't really care about his success. I'm worried about yours. Yeah. Unless you're 23 and you're going to put in two years and learn from an extraordinary mentor who's going to carry you along the way, and you're going to have somewhere to go. Yeah. How you're 23 and you're going to put in two years and learn from an extraordinary mentor who's going to carry you along the way and you're going to have somewhere to go. Yeah.

How old are you? Yeah, I'm 24. Okay. All right. So is that your idea? You're thinking you can learn from this guy because he's a butt kicker? I think that's part of it. And then, yeah, the location is I want to live there.

It's more exciting. There's something else here. What's the thing you're not saying? Are you looking for permission to not take this job that you don't really want because it's going to pay a lot? I don't know, I guess. What's the location of the underpaid one that's so that's so appealing um it's so i would be in training um kind of around the columbia area and

then it's up in the air where i would go it's been thrown out georgia um that's the 80 000 locations no that's the higher page okay what about the one that's got the great location? Where's the great location? Columbia? No, it's in the Pacific Northwest. Like where? Like Seattle area. Okay, so you want to move to Seattle.

That's appealing to you. Yeah, that area. That's appealing to you. Yeah. Why? that's appealing to you yes why uh like the outdoors and you know it's nice to be able to kind of go in your backyard and it's all there you can go fishing after work and different things which i know you can do in georgia that's just not the same it sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make a forever decision, and you're 24 years old, man.

And if you were telling me that, hey, I've got the opportunity to work for Dave Ramsey for two years, learn the ins and outs of this thing, and he's going to take me along on the ride, and then I'm going to have skill set. I'm going to get a ringside seat to a world-class leader, and then I'm going to have him on my, as a reference the rest of my life. Yeah, dude, I'm going to be real rude for a second. Go make the money. I'm going to be rude for a second, okay? If you're coming to work for me and you want to move to Franklin, Tennessee, and the reason you want to come to work for me is because you can go fishing, I don't think I want you. Well, I also like, I mean, it's in my industry, and it would be like more responsibility,

and it would be more, I would just have the freedom to do a lot more in the company and help the company make money. You grew up in Columbiaumbia didn't you uh yeah i've moved all over the country doing different things i worked for a large contractor oh so you've already said okay all right i i um okay here's the only way i know to help you answer the question because i'm just confused about this call yeah me too um the um what a good way to do this is to john was on to something there it's not forever but do ask yourself the question what do you want to be doing when you're 34 10 years from today and where do you want to be doing it and what kind of money do you want to

be making and what kind of a career field do you want to be doing it? And what kind of money do you want to be making? And what kind of a career field do you want to be in? And all those kinds of things. And once you identify that, ask yourself the question, which of these takes you there? And the love of the great outdoors, I'm sorry, that's way down the freaking list of the discussion on this. Because if you make $160 versus $180, you can buy an airline ticket. Well, especially if you're a salesman, for the amount of time you're going to be able to get out and go fishing. What I'm telling you, if you're my friend, if you're my son, I'm telling you at 24 years of age, you are starting to grind, brother. Go make your money.

Go to a place where you're going to have a lot of influence, where you're going to learn a lot. And Georgia is a beautiful, wonderful place to live. And as Dave said, man, go spend a few weeks in the great northwest um but man get that stuff under your belt and then you have a lot more options when you're 34 and 44 and 54 yeah but but which of these decisions takes you to where you want to be 10 years from now and that'll get you off the short term of, ooh, I don't want to live here. Ooh, ooh, ooh. And this guy's a nice guy. Ooh, ooh. None of that takes you where you want to be 10 years from now. And so the decision-making variables in this are disturbing.

And I can't put my finger on exactly why. I'm going to guess if we were to sit down and have some coffee with this person, there's a romantic interest at one of these places that has a – or a and dad interest at one of these places well that's why i asked if he grew up in columbia it sounded like he's trying to get out of there ah gotcha get out of the south yeah i gotta get away yeah you know i'm getting away from crazy family or something i don't know i don't know what's going on i can't put my finger up but good luck with it dude look out 10 years and ask yourself which of these is going to take you there and hopefully that'll help you answer the question better than these two goofballs did and she'll go with you trust me yeah she'll come find you if she's worth it or you'll go back and buy an airline ticket or

whatever however that works i think we overthink stuff dave i'm 24 years old it's getting in the mouth man listen yeah you don't you know where are you going to college? So-and-so. Why? My girlfriend's going there. Bad plan. Warning. Warning. This is the Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries,

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How can I pay off debt faster? What's the right way to invest? Investing scares me. Hey, here's the good news. You don't have to figure out the answers to this on your own. Ramsey Plus will guide you every step of the way. With a Ramsey Plus membership, you get the digital teaching that you need with Financial Peace University to really understand money so you can be confident you're always doing the next right thing.

Plus, our world-class budgeting app, tools, and guided action steps to help you make progress on your money goals fast. It means no more debt, cash in the bank for emergencies, and a real plan for your future. Ramsey Plus helps you get small, consistent wins every day that lead to big results and lifelong habits. To get started today with a free trial, text TRIAL to 33789. That's TRIAL to 33789. That's TRIAL to 33789. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is our co-host today. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com, the number one online retailer of custom window coverings.

You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEsey to get the best possible deal all right today's question comes from jennifer in alabama jennifer writes our daughter has been struggling with college for a couple of years she's seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression she recently decided to drop out of school and work full-time she refuses to move back home and wants to keep the car we provided her for school we told her to come home figure out her next steps and give the car back or she can finish school and keep the car she sees this as a punishment and thinks we are unsupportive villains any advice

on how to keep a 21 year old who seems to have already already made up their mind dave you're a dad who's had a couple of three or four 21 year olds I've got some man this one gets under my skin a little bit so you go first hmm

um I don't think Jennifer that you're involved enough in her situation emotionally to meet out this boundary. It sounds like you don't believe that she has anxiety and depression and she's just screwing around, and so you're going to punish her for screwing around. That's the way this sounds to me. So if you're acting on that, then that's okay.

If she really has anxiety and depression and you really believe she does, then you're completely out of line. Give her the car. Help her. She's trying to find her way through a real tough mental situation. But I think you guys are pretty detached from her emotionally is what it feels like yeah the note i wrote is this is a relationship issue right now yeah and you're trying to flex on a 21 year old who's struggling and sometimes for a college student with obviously with high expectations and high family support to say i'm gonna take a break that's a hard brave move it's

not always the best and sometimes people are into drugs and crazy but break that's a hard brave move it's not always the best and sometimes people are into drugs and crazy but sometimes it's a hard brave move and this looks like oh well then you can just fill in the blank and you know what as a parent you can do that that's your car you can do that and i've seen your question was how to help her that's right the question was not what should i should i take her car away the question was how do how do I help her? That's right. And if this is my kid, I'm going to get on the next bus or get in my car, and we're going to go have a meal together. Something here tells me this is a long time coming, and there's a deeply fractured relationship.

It's just hard to hit somebody in the back of the head unless you've got your arm around their shoulder. You know? And it feels like that you're trying to punch from over here, not from your arm around their shoulder. You know? And it feels like that you're trying to punch from over here, not from your arm around the shoulder. Yeah. And when somebody's struggling and they say, hey, I need to take a step back,

and your first response is, then you need to do what I say, that's hard. That's hard. And at the same time, I want to be clear, this is your car. Come get it. But it may cost you your daughter.

Yeah. Your question was not what your rights are. Your question was how can I help guide a 21-year-old who's already made up their mind. I think, you know, I'm going to do a – I'm reading a lot between the lines. It's hard to know in this situation. But I'm reading a lot between the lines. It's hard to know in this situation. But I'm reading a lot between the lines that your emotional connectivity and relationship with her is not deep enough to make – she's not listening to you. And that tells me you don't have enough connectivity for her. You're not persuading anymore. You're just hitting with a bat.

You're not even a safe enough place to come home when she's falling apart, right? She's got to go find somewhere else. We talk a lot about boomerang kids who can't wait to run back to mom and dad. And there's a whole industry about teaching mom and dad how to draw boundaries. But kids think that mom and dad are safe in that situation. Your kid's struggling, and you are not a place that she can even be around. Now, she wants to keep your car. Fair enough. You're not a place that she can go. And that's where to keep your car fair enough you're not a place that she can go and that's where the car the car doesn't

matter no that's what i think um the advice on how to help guide her is spend more time with her right and this looks like help guide and listen more and talk less how do i flex more yeah how do i listen more and talk less and um gain the emotional, earn the right to persuade and guide. And that's creating a safe place. And you've lost this right. That's what we're both seeing. She's lost the right to persuade. Yeah.

That's what amounts to it. For something, we don't know what. And my guess is this is a long time coming. It could be the kid. Yeah, it could be. It could be the kid. But somehow you lost the right to persuade. So keep the car, don't keep the car.

I don't give a rip about the car. But your car go sit down and meet if it's if it's not an expensive car just go to her i wouldn't give her any more money until we've got these things repaired she's a 21 21 year old nick in a 21 year old grown-up decision so she can go make her 21 year old life yeah i'll go along with that and i'm not going to support things that i don't have that i can't speak into uh so if you're going to wall me out for whatever reason my fault or your fault then i'm not going to throw money in over the wall that's not uh that that's just uh that's enabling on steroids but but if you throw the car into the mix and then use that as a leverage to just start to rebuild a higher

quality relationship to persuade that That's your only help. I think as a dad of kids, having grown kids is the most difficult version of raising kids. Because you no longer get to tell them what to do. You have to persuade them. And so I have to sit with my son who's getting ready to turn 30 and talk him into stuff like I have to talk you into stuff. You know, I can't just make you do stuff. Well, I can as your boss boss but then it's the same thing it's a temporary thing so i have to persuade adults in my life to do things that are even

for their own good whether they're my kids as adults or other people's kids as adults and so you just cannot you and it was just easier when i said you have to do that because i said so i read a line the other day dave that i'm still processing and when i hear a line like this i'll sit on it for a while but here was the line i want to be the kind of father that when something happens to my child he doesn't think oh crap we can't tell dad we can't let dad find out i want to be the kind of dad that when something happens to my kid he says oh crap we better find dad we better call dad and not that that means that we're not going to hold people accountable but i want to be that the sentiment behind this is i want to be a safe enough place that my kid trusts me that when things get sideways i'm going to walk alongside him and i haven't wrapped my

head around that yet dad may kill me but he'll help me first that's right that's right that's right that's the dad i want to be i do want the threat of death over them he'll do it quick and painless right this was going to be slow and miserable right yeah yeah but there's something about building that safety as a parent that i'm going to hold you accountable but you're never ever going to doubt that i love you yeah and that's a hard balance right yeah that's exactly right exactly right. And I think it's even harder the older they get. Yeah. When they're three, you know, you just make them do stuff.

Okay, so let me ask you this, Dave. Is it hard because you have a desired future for them, or is it hard because... Because I like people doing what I tell them to do. Yeah, you're letting the control go, right? That seems to be the hard part. Yeah, I mean, we all do. It's like, I you you know listen if you turn left there you're gonna you're not gonna get the where you're going you need to turn right yeah

it's and then i have to then when they go around the block six times i told you you know it's like you keep driving a car like that you're gonna wreck it you know you keep driving your life like that you're gonna wreck it and sure enough they do you know and but uh you can't and the only way we learn stuff is by wrecking the car. It's so frustrating. Yeah, no, it's not the only way. You can watch other people wreck the car. I know.

You can listen to your old man who wrecked a bunch of cars and knows better. You don't have to go broke to learn to not do what I did to go broke. You can do better. And thank goodness. Oh, my goodness. Parenting. A little too much authenticity here on this segment of the show. Oh, my goodness. Parenting. A little too much authenticity here on this segment of the show.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Anna's in New York City. Hi, Anna. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. Thank you, Dave. Good.

So my question is that I'm a public school teacher in New York City, and we're offered something called a TDA, a tax-deferred annuity. Should I contribute to this teacher retirement fund, even though it generates only a 6%, 7% simple interest? No. Okay. Simple interest is fine. That's standard compound simple interest. Yeah, no. Okay. Simple interest is fine. That's standard compounding interest,

but you can do better than 7% and you can do better than a teacher's annuity. If you have the option, it's not mandatory, right? No, no, it's not mandatory. Yeah, you need to step outside of that and do Roth IRAs. Are you married? Yes. Okay, do a Roth IRA for you, Roth IRA for your husband. Is your husband working and does he have a 401k available? Yes, he does. Okay. Let's get our baby

step four. We call it 15% of your income going into retirement. Between those three things, his 401k and two Roths, because you can get it into good growth stock mutual funds and make at least 50% more on it than you would make there. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and it's just got a lot more flexibility. The problem with most teacher retirement packages are that it's government-affiliated, obviously, and what happened was the insurance people got very involved in the early days, in the 403B systems.

403Bs, you see them in nonprofits, in hospitals, and with teachers in government, right? And so when the insurance people got involved, they put in annuities, which, like you found, don't have a good rate of return and or are stacked high in fees. And so it's a substandard product compared to what your husband has, say, over as a 401K at his work. I did not know that. So that means if the insurance is involved and it's only getting a 6% rate. Not necessarily. But, I mean, the insurance company, an annuity is an insurance product.

Right. Okay? It's a savings account with an insurance company, and it's just stacked high in fees. She's in a fixed annuity, which is a horrible product. Okay. And then you can also get into a variable annuity, which has a series of growth stock mutual funds in it. So it starts to look pretty similar then if you can select.

However, you're just going to run into much higher fees. And so you can just, I mean, 99 times out of 100, 95 times out of 100, if I'm working with a teacher, they're better off doing it somewhere than at the school system. There's just very few of them are high-quality retirement plans like you'll find in corporate America or like you can get on your own with a Roth IRA with a SmartVestor Pro, that kind of thing. Suzanne's in Syracuse, New York.

Hey, Suzanne, how are you? I'm very good, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I recently got remarried about a year and a half ago, and so we sold my house and we live in his house. I cleared $132, 000 on the house and i wanted to know what i should actually do with that money okay remarried so uh you went through a

divorce oh yeah like 30 years ago oh long time ago okay good oh it's been like 22 years I was divorced, yeah. Okay. All right. And are you all combining your finances? No, we keep our finances separate. Okay. My husband does not have good credit. Okay. All right. And how old are you two? I'm 58 and he's 65.

Okay. All right. are you two i'm 58 and he's 65 okay all right um i think it's fine for you to do uh you don't have any debt i take it i'm just the house okay his house his house yes yeah so if you're not going to combine your finances then this money is invested in your name for you in mutual funds i'm going to challenge that over time. It's a brand-new marriage. I don't have to challenge it today. You've lived your lives as single individuals for a long time, so emotionally the collision of your emotions to combine your finances

just opens up a lot of stuff inside your brain, I'm sure. But I do want to tell you that very few people succeed financially when they don't combine their finances. But you don't have to do it today, but I want you to, over time, soften on this and be willing to reach over and pay off his house, our house, because it needs to become our house, because it needs to stay in the will.

You keep it if he dies not his kids yes and i already contribute that paid part of the mortgage every month well that's just like having a roommate see and so there's a there's a spiritual advantage a financial advantage a relational advantage to long term beginning you know, for this not to be his house, it's our house because you're in the will, and there's a spiritual advantage for you guys to be operating together. What's the hesitancy? He has very bad credit. People would take the money. Creditors would come and take the money.

He's got judgments against him? Yes. How many? I don't know. And he has terrible credit, so's got judgments against him? Yes. How many? I don't know. And he has terrible credit, so we would never. Credit doesn't, people don't take money because of bad credit. They take money because of lawsuits on defaulted debts. Well, then he has defaulted debts.

How many? And you need to know. Yeah, how much? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you need to figure that number out because it's. It's like he has cancer, but I don't know how bad it is. Yeah, it's this looming shadow of your relationship.

And so what's going to happen or what is happening is y'all are coming up with alternative ways to go out to eat, to use Dave's cancer analogy. But you don't even know what the problem is or how bad it is. Right. And so what happens is you start taking a little bit of a step here and a little bit of step to the left and to the left and all of a sudden you wake up and you're a mile apart from each other and you didn't mean to you didn't do it on purpose you love each other but you are not on separate same roads and you don't even know what that what the cancer is yeah i'd pull a credit report so there's two things on the practical level i would get a full list of everything, and you all start working a plan.

You don't have to put your money towards it today, but you need to start working a plan and know what the flip's going on in his life. He's your husband. And it goes with the territory. He's not your roommate. And you cannot, you can't, it's not, this is not a healthy relationship the way you're going into it. It's what John's saying. Now, the second part of this is when you say he's got bad credit, three times you've said that, I also think I heard you saying I think he's irresponsible.

That's right. He's never been very good with money, so he's never saved money. He has no retirement. Do you think he's irresponsible? He pays his bills when he can. Do you think he's irresponsible? I think he was in the past, yes. Okay.

If he's responsible now, he's a guy that has a mess left over from the time when he was irresponsible, and it's a good thing he's got you in his life and the two of you can work together to clean up his mess from his former irresponsibility. But if you can't trust him going forward because he's irresponsible, we've got a whole other barrel of fishhooks here. Right. Because it sounds like he's not quite being honest about what he owes or a situation. He's got a lot of shame about it. And it sounds like you're not being honest about how he owes or a situation. He's got a lot of shame about it.

And it sounds like you're not being honest about how much you kind of have to hedge your bets against him because he's not trustworthy. And that is a recipe for this thing to end up in ash. That's why I asked you how long you've been divorced, because if it had been five years and the guy before was horrible with money and irresponsible, it's easy to transfer the former ex-husband's crap onto the new husband, whether it be right or not. And so, yeah, I think you guys need to work on you having a belief that he's going to be a good, responsible, wise man going forward,

and then based on that, we're going to work through cleaning up his mess together. And even down to the end of the story being that, yeah, your $132,000 eventually rolls up into this and pays off that house, but the house is in your name. I mean, you're in the will, and the house has your name on it as well, if you're going to pay it off. You're going to combine your lives and your finances, and we're going to work together in a way that is responsible and wise.

Y'all have got secrets in your home, and you can't build a new marriage on secrets. You can't sustain an old marriage on secrets. Y'all got to sit down and have a truth-telling session with each other relatively soon. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John is with us in Pennsylvania. Hi, John. How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So I think I'm in baby step three, but I'm not sure. I paid off all our debt and recently finished paying off the car. We're debt-free, except my oldest son has co-signed some of his college loans.

So I'm not sure. Should I put them into my debt snowball and start paying them off or just step in if he starts having trouble paying them. Is he paying them? Well, he just graduated in May and he's still looking for a job. Okay, so he's got six months

before he has to start paying. Yeah. How much is owed on these loans? All together, it's right about $30,000. How much debt have you paid off so far? Well, I really haven't paid off anything. There's a couple different loans. Oh, I thought you were on it.

Then you say you paid off some debt. Oh, my debt. Yes, sir. Sorry. Gosh, probably close to $96,000. Wow. Yeah, $96,000. What do you make?

Household income? Household income is about $79,000. Okay. Well, you've done very, very well. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is what accountants call a contingent liability, meaning that you are liable if he doesn't pay. That's what cosigning sets you up for. So you are technically debt-free.

You're technically on Baby Step 3, okay? I would want your Baby Step 3 to be pretty beefy, your emergency fund. So don't do 3 to 6. Go six to eight or yeah yeah i'm going to probably cheat a little bit up in the eight side just to kind of offset the fact that you have a kid that has not gotten a job and he's got thirty thousand dollars he's supposed to start paying on and if he doesn't you're about to and if you have to if you have to start paying the payments because he doesn't then i'm just going to treat it like my debt. I'm going to stop everything and knock it out.

Yeah, he's got a computer science degree, and he did very well in school, so we're pretty confident he's going to get a decent paying job. Me too. But I'm just, you know, at the moment. For today, I would just set aside extra, but at the six-month mark, if he doesn't start paying this on time and they start bothering you, just roll up your sleeves and knock it out. Okay. And, John, if you haven't already, take him to lunch because he is going to get a good job.

And make sure he knows to not go buy a car in a fancy apartment. Put him into Financial Peace University. Knock this thing out. Yeah, well, so we found out about you about two years ago, before, you know, he went off to the college he went to. And so it's a little bit of a moral issue for me, because my youngest son, he's sort of getting a free ride, because I work at a college. Yeah.

And so we're getting, like like a tremendous discount for him. Why didn't the other one go there? They didn't have the degree he wanted at my school. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't see it as a moral issue. Listen, fair is something that happens at the county. Yeah. That's a great line, Dave. Good one, you know so i mean it's just it is what it

is if you've got a child that has uh that is a you know a different situation then it's a different situation and so equal is not fair fair is not equal and that's that's uh that's just part of the way life works out and um uh i i you, my kids did not get the exact same amount. The younger one ended up with possibly more because we had a better start by the time he came along. But it's all worked out for all of them. They're going to be just fine. And you can do something that blesses one of the other ones a little bit later if you want to or something like that, the one that didn't cost you anything, you know, that kind of thing.

But anyway, yeah, you can help if you want to help. But I would be prepared to pay it off immediately as fast as you can if he fails in paying it. That's the way I would position it. Thank you. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Aubrey is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Aubrey, what's up? Hi.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I have a question. So my husband and I got married three years ago, and he's graduating at the end of the year with his Ph.D. in mechanical engineering. Wow. What's he going to do, teach? He wants to do, teach?

He wants to eventually, he's got an emphasis in aerospace. He's been working on research with new aircraft. Very cool. That's fun. But our question is, he's known about you since he started school, so he has no debt for his school. And our question, our debate at home is, we really want to pay cash for a house but i personally don't see that as possible without saving for five plus years depending

on his income and so we were just kind of wondering when is it where he's 33 and i'm i'm 30 we're wondering when is it time to do the 15% even though we want to pay 100% for a house. Generally, we tell folks three years that you don't want to lay off of your retirement longer than that. But if you have a goal of paying for a house and you have a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering and you're in the aerospace world, I'm projecting a pretty dadgum good income here. And so if you're 33 and you have a paid-for house, you're probably still going to be multi-gazillionaires by the time you get to retirement if you just invest from that point forward.

So if it takes you five years, it doesn't kill me in this situation. You see why? Hello? Yeah, I just ran a bunch of numbers, and I'm a little bit, I don't know, we have two kids, and I just, maybe it's just my... If you can pay cash for a house, by what age? By, well, five years would be 38. Okay, at 38 years old, and 30 years is 68, of making $200,000 plus a year and investing substantial amounts because you have absolutely no house payment.

If you just invest a house payment for 30 years, that's $10 million. I don't know what you've been running your numbers, but what would have been a house payment that you don't have anymore? I'm trying to be more conservative with... It just depends on what he wants to do. He doesn't want to work at the big places. Well, if he's not going to go earn an income commensurate with what I'm talking about, that may change the formula. If he's going to make $30,000 a year because he's taking some half-butt government job or something,

when he ought to be making 10x that, then no. I do change my answer then so yeah you guess you need to talk that through with him but i'm projecting a big income in this household and with no house payment for all those years you'll have no trouble landing this thing yeah but i mean if you want to go i mean i would think even as a professor teaching, he'd be making $150. $150, yeah, depending on how good he is. And I also don't see a challenge with taking out a 10-year mortgage then. Yeah, working it backwards if you want to.

If you want to start saving 15% and take out a short mortgage, that's fine. But I love the idea of paying cash for the house and having to be free your entire life. But you have to commit to all sides of the equation, which is the income side, the investment side after the house is purchased, and the paying cash side. And we're going to be on an intentional detailed budget to where we hit all of these goals. Well, and it's going to be a weighing. So if we want to say for five years or four years, I'm going to take job X. And as a family, we're going to hit the gas. So that for the back 30 years, then take that job, man. years or four years i'm going to take job x yeah and as a family we're going to hit the gas so that

for the back 30 years then take that job man take that job plus another job take that job an adjunct somewhere else and be a professor there and do what you got to do so you're going to pay cash for house and you're man you're done yeah you're being great i mean if you have a paid for house when you're 38 and you're making six figures what you you you if you invest reasonably out of that you're gonna have 10 million dollars i mean you really will so you should be fine but um you know if you're investing in good growth stock mutual funds stock market rates of return you'll be there you're going to be just fine but if you don't play through on all of that then yeah you just end up with a paid-for house and a bad job. Right. And that's certainly not what we're recommending. Definitely not.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. James Childs is our producer. Kelly Daniel is our associate producer and phone screener. Dr. John Deloney is my co-host today. This is The Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll see you next time.