The Ramsey Show - App - How Much Money Will Solve All Your Problems? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

Dr. John Delony & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: Can money buy happiness? Transitioning from intensity to intentionality "Is it selfish if I feel stuck as a stay-at-home mom?" "Should I sell my house after moving for work?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 What is up? We are live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and have incredible relationships. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Campbell, basically half the Beatles, John and George, and we are taking your calls on money, life, whatever you got going on.

Work, relationships, marriage, mental health, whatever you got going on, we got an opinion, 888-825-5225. And George, before we go to the calls, I want to talk about this article that's out. How much money does it take to be happy? Ooh, that's a hot topic. Is this a hot take on a hot topic? It is. Well, we covered something similar on Smart Money Happy Hour saying, is there a magic salary for happiness?

It's a great pitch to your own show. Thank you. You should go check it out. But this is actually based on data instead of opinions. So one study said happiness peaks at $75,000 in income. Now economists say it's higher by a lot. By a lot. Yeah, so I remember the data. That data's been around forever, and it's kind of become like a folk tale, right? Well, now they're like, inflation, John, like $70,000, you're poor.

Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the vibe. All right, so let's go through this um the question uh so it's it's it's hired by a lot tell me how much more new research from a nobel prize winning economist and fellow researchers provide a fresh answer money does appear to boost happiness at least for some people up to earnings of five hundred thousand dollars wow okay i'm gonna go with a yes on that one. So if you make $501,000, you might be miserable. You make $499,000, you're crushing the game.

So this feels almost silly, John, because we went from 75 grand to half a million dollars. Right. Because the idea was after 75 grand, you kind of plateau happiness-wise. Right. This is saying you plateau at 500 grand. Right. It's not really accurate. And there is, I think this is important to note, there is a smaller group of people for whom higher incomes don't make much difference. For this unhappy group, which I think George is probably in this group, it's comprised of about 15% of people.

The relationship between happiness and income is different, with additional money failing to improve their sense of well-being once they hit about $100,000. And so there is just Eeyores, right? People who choose, and I use that word intentionally, who choose, I'm just going to be kind of a grump, right? It's not going to help anything, blah, it's just going to get the way it is. And we all know those people in our lives.

Well, I see there's two groups of people. There's one group that legitimately doesn't make enough money to cover their bills and survive. Right. So if you're in survival mode, you do need more money. I'm not going to act like, well, you can make any amount of money and be happy. Sure, that's true. We can go to villages in Africa and find joy that we could not find on any street corner in America. That is true. There's another group of people who actually make good money, but they have piles of debt and they're overspending and they're keeping up with the Joneses. They're not content with who they are and no amount of money can fix that on one hand. Or that dollar amount has become their scorecard for their self-worth.

And it keeps moving. I have to make this $200,000 or I'm a loser and my dad's never going to tell me he's proud of me and my wife's going to leave me. And then you get $200,000 and you realize, oh, my life is exactly the same way it was before. I have a nicer toaster and a cooler blender and then it moves on you. Well, I need to make $300,000 and it just keeps moving and moving and moving and moving. Well, and there's also a piece of this where you go, if you make three, $400,000, you might have a very stressful job that might kill you early. Yeah. I'll never forget. That was one of the most important lessons I learned young. I had a mentor who allowed me to follow it, to shadow him in some pretty important meetings. And I remember leaving going, oh, he makes way more than me and he earns that money. Like his life

is hard, man. Cause just all the stuff he's responsible for. And so, yeah, there's, they don't hand out two or three or $400,000. You got to work for that money and it's a hard life. But even then I like working really hard. I like working really hard. I like working long hours and I like making great money, but I have to know that that is not going to, when I look in the mirror, I'm not, it's not going to give me peace, right? What's going to give me peace is really extraordinary relationships, a great marriage, good relationships with my kids, right? Healthy balance with the seasons of work. Sometimes they're wild, but sometimes I get some more family time. That's going to give me a peaceful life. And the more money you make,

the more money you can give away. And we don't talk about that enough. There is some extraordinary generosity that happens with people who make great money. Well, and science shows that people who give are more joyful. That's right. They have lower blood pressure. That's right. They have less stress in their lives. They're more fulfilled. And so there's a lot of components to this. But I think the main teaching that I come away with is saying, if you're in debt, get out of debt and see if that increases your happiness, regardless of your income.

Number two, find a career that you actually enjoy versus trying to aim at a certain number and going, I'm willing to do whatever job it takes to make $200,000 a year. You might be miserable. Right. And some people might be better off working for $50,000 year, doing something they love with no debt hanging around them. That's right. That person can be way happier than someone making 5X that. And if you are miserable at 75 grand,

chances are you're going to be miserable at 250 grand. You go with you. That's right. And so if you don't actually dig into the roots of that, and like your book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and dig into the trauma and the shame and the baggage and the reasons you're trying to do all this then no money will be enough and we see this data on this people who make 250 grand are living paycheck to paycheck so don't ever say

to yourself well if i just made 250 grand my life would be better you might have lifestyle creep and you might think you get a nicer car that's right a nicer house because now you have to keep up that's right and so there's a lot of lessons to be learned here. But what I always go back to is the baby steps work, regardless of if you make 50 grand or 300 grand, living debt-free and having an emergency fund in the bank will give you a happier life. And that's one component. You still have to have good relationships, good community,

have a job that you enjoy that doesn't add stress to your life. So we don't want you to have a flat tire in any specific area of life. You got to be well-rounded. Yeah. Well, I love that this folklore, this myth has been busted, right? And I also love that we can have a conversation and getting to a number and thinking that's a finish line is just not how life works it can help it can help and i think it's good that we can now be a little less um dishonest if you will 200 000 bucks can solve a lot of problems it can make your life easier but it won't your dad's not going to call you if he hadn't called you yet he's not going to call you and say you know what now i'm proud that call's not coming right yeah um you're not going to have

a dysfunctional marriage and suddenly your wife's going to go ah there we go now it's better it's just not how that works right um hmm so let me ask you this george instead i was going to take another call but i'm not going to do that um smart man on on smart money happy hour with this particular conversation what kind of feedback did you get? Well, the comment section was spirited as usual, John. One person said, George's comedy is underrated. I appreciate that.

But a lot of people said, you know what? That's true because they've realized that their income is one factor. It's one piece of the equation. We say your income is your greatest wealth building tool. We don't say it's your joy building tool. Or it's your purpose tool. Yeah, exactly. And so it's one piece of the equation. When we get our money right, it allows us to look up and focus on relationships and sleep better at night, which then gives us a better life. So get your money

right. And that's the foundation you can use to fix the other areas. Excellent. Hey, 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Sam. I am in Little Rock. What's up, Sam?

What's up, guys? How we doing? Doing very well. How are y'all? Outstanding. Outstanding. What's up? So, I'm looking for wisdom on the-

You called the wrong show, my brother. Wrong show. So wrong that I immediately busted out laughing. All right, so what's up? Yeah, you know, my wife and I have been paying off debt for about 14 months. And next week when our paychecks hit, we're done with debt. And the week after that, when my bonus hits, we're done with baby step three. Yeah. we're done with baby step three. So I'm just looking for that, the mindset that, you know,

y'all had when, when you got done paying off debt, right? Like, what does that look like? Well, we say you move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step four. And so there's not a lot that changes as far as your habits of you're still on a budget. You just let your foot off the gas as far as, you know, working three jobs because you had to, to get to safety. You made it to shore. And so now the goal is how do we start building towards the future instead of paying for the past? And there's a lot of things you can kind of put on autopilot, like 15% into your retirement at that point. That can be an easy thing to do. It can also be really hard because you now want to use that money, but it still has an allocation. It still has to go somewhere and go to work for you. But now's the time to actually go, okay, what are some spending

goals we have? We haven't been able to do that for a while. Where do we want to go on vacation? Hey, it's time to upgrade that car. Let's do that home renovation and cashflow it. And so that's where you sit down with your spouse and really start to put those goals on paper and make that a part of your daily, monthly, yearly routines. So one of the things I've seen people do, Sam, that helps them be successful is, it's so wise that you're thinking through this now. Usually what happens is people become debt free. They scream and yell and jump up and down in the living room. They wake up the next morning and their lives are exactly the same. They just don't have any bills next month.

And then they kind of go bananas. They go crazy and maybe they'll go back into debt, but they kind of blow the budget and just go out to eat and go to bananas. And then they start to figure out like, oh, crap, what do we got to do? You guys are a couple months ahead of that. Here's where you get to do, and I want you to shift from survival to fun. I would love for you and your wife to go out and have a long, really, really nice dinner, like an obnoxious one. And with the intention of what do we want our lives to look like in the next two to three years? And what do

we want our lives to look like in fifth? Let's just dream and be silly about it. We want a house here and we want the East wing to look like this. Like let's start dreaming together, not just surviving together. And then what you do is you sit down and say, okay, here's what it's going to take to get there. And some of these things are silly. Some of them are real and we're going to begin to build a path that's going to get us there. But now we're building a path looking forward. We're not just running through the night to not get eaten by a lion. You see the difference there? Yeah, I do. Here's what's really important. You have to intentionally change your identity. Our identity

was we are a couple who will do whatever it takes to get out of debt. And if you don't go through some sort of ritual, if you will, to change your identity, one of you is going to hang on to that identity and the other one's going to get really fed up and frustrated that they can't buy new shoes. And then you're going to have this weird angst in the house. You're not going to know where it's coming from. It's because you've got two competing identities in the same marriage. And so let's turn our identity. Who do we want to become now? Do we want to be wild, generous people? Do we want to have our kids pay half of their college or a hundred percent of their college? We want to pay our house off. Now we can just start dreaming about whatever comes next.

And it's incredible if you guys can make that turn. Yeah, that makes sense. When you're looking at like your fund money and all that, are you making separate pots of money for that? Like I just haven't had it, so I don't- It just becomes a line item in your budget. So it's Sam's fun money. There's an entertainment.

There's a vacation sinking fund. So we save up five grand for that trip six months from now. And so that's all it becomes. And I have different areas. You can only do three things with money. Give it, save it, spend it. I like to do it in that order. So set giving goals.

That's going to come off the top. Set some savings goals. We're going to invest 15%. We're going to save up for the car. We're going to save up for the vacation and then have some spending goals and go, all right, we're going to spend some money this month. We're going to set 500 bucks to go out to eat because we just haven't been able to do that. We got to catch up on all the new restaurants in Little Rock, whatever it is for you guys. But doing that helps me feel grounded and not like I'm leaning one way too much because some people go, I have to save,

save, save, save, save. I can't spend a dime. Dave said, no, Dave didn't say that. He said, live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. And it's time to start leaning into the ladder. I think I would maybe do it for a couple of months at a time, Sam.

I just said two to three years. Maybe say, hey, we're going to spend two months and we're just going to go to some restaurants. We're going to eat out because we haven't done that in so long. And this, we're just going to enjoy some of these restaurants. What you will find is it will be nice and cool. And you're going to look forward to going back to eating at home. And you're going to like somebody else doing the dishes and it's going to feel good to have somebody else clean up after you. And then you're going to get tired of the 50 and 60 and $70 bills just at regular old restaurants these days. And you're going to say, ah, I'd rather go back home. Right. And so it's just, but do it, do it. Just here's the key.

Just make sure you budget for it. Just put it in the budget. Yeah. Okay. And this will be wonky. Okay. Just be, if you'll have an argument, you get frustrated. It's like, oh, I had my eye on this guitar. you get frustrated it's like oh i had my eye on this guitar and she's like well i had my eye on you never buying another guitar like those expect those things to happen that's just marriage it's just life there's two people doing life together um but you're not broken and you're not something something's not wrong it's just about turning the corner and changing identities together which dude i just think that's gonna be a blast man it's gonna be a blast all right let's roll out to be a blast. All right, let's roll out to Holly in Davenport. What's up, Holly?

How are we doing? Hey, Dr. John. Hey, George. It's good to talk to you guys. It's great to talk to you, too. How are we doing? Yeah, well, speaking of changing identity, I am a new stay-at-home mom.

And I just feel kind of lonely and isolated. Yes. home mom and I just feel kind of lonely and isolated. You know, I worked for 20 years before my husband and I had kids and I'm about a year into this thing and it's just, like I said, kind of lonely, isolated and I just, I want to be here with my kids. I think it's selfish. It would be very selfish of me to send my kids to daycare so I can go work. We don't need the money. I need to be here with my kids. But I want to find happiness in it. I want to find joy in it.

And I just can't. I just haven't been able to. Man, if you were in front of me, I would ask you if it was okay to give you a hug because I, this, this is one of those common conversations I have across the country. And it's the opposite. I have the opposite conversation as well. Um, I can't stay at home and I feel like I should, or I should be at work. I want to be at work and I feel like I got to be at home. And then I, my kids do something crazy. And then I think mean thoughts work. I want to be at work. And I feel like I got to be at home. And then my kids do something crazy. And then I think mean thoughts.

Like I wish my kids would stop smearing crap all over. And then I feel guilty for having these thoughts. And so I want you to understand you've entered in. You've been in it for a long time. But you are continuing in to the vortex that is modern Western world that is built on a guilt factory for mothers you can't damned if you do damned if that's right you're gonna get judgment on either side and opinions from the other moms yes you're and you're gonna get opinions from yourself that's the issue that i'm having you know i i can care less about the outside world and

honestly i i think maybe some of the issue too is that I don't really have community. I don't have a lot of friends. My family doesn't live here. I think that is key. Here's two things I think are key. Number one, I think you thought it would feel different. If I make this huge sacrifice, the reward that I'm going to quote unquote feel inside is going to be worth it. And that feeling's not there, but you did get a great feeling from being really good at your professional job and getting a paycheck deposit in your account and getting attigirls from your coworkers and your supervisors. That felt awesome. It was built in validation. Yeah. It doesn't feel awesome when you make a great meal and your kids are like, I don't like this. It's gross.

Or Timmy pushed me and you're like, how about I push you off? You know, so number one, you have to, every time you have those feelings, just call them out. I thought this was going to feel differently. And I feel like I want to karate chop somebody. I'm not going to, but I feel it. The second thing is you nailed it. You got to get a group of women in your life. And that's the hard, weird, ugly, annoying part. It's almost like dating again, except harder. You got to make a choice to get some women in your

life. Tessa Romero, check her out on Instagram, Tessa Romero. She's great with new moms, mindset shifts. She's awesome. And make it a point to get some friends. You're worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey, what's happening? This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend, George Camel.

And on the debt-free stage, we have Anna and Isabella and Nicholas. What is happening? Hey, happy to be here. How we doing? Good. All the way from the great state, the only country that matters, Texas. That's right.

Very cool. All right, so you're here from Texas, and you're doing your debt-free screams. How much did we pay off? I paid off $38,473. Woo, $38,470. Woo! $38,470. Making how much? So I started with $54,000 and ended at $98,000.

Whoa! Is that just you? Yeah, just me. What do you do? Single month. So I do sales for power distribution equipment. And the first year

of my debt-free snowball, I did Uber and I sold cookies and I also sold everything. That's a lot of cookies. You had a third kid and they're gone too. Yeah, it's gone. So how long did it take to pay this off? 21 months.

Amazing. Whoa, so you got after it, after it, after it. Yeah, especially the first year. So what kind of debt was the $38,000? It was credit cards, car, AC repairs, some chairs, and taxes. Some chairs? Yeah, my dining chairs.

Wow. Come on. Was that because of like, it's a 0%? Or was that you were so broke, you're like, I got to get chairs and put them on the car? Like, how did that work? It was a really good deal. Ah. Thank you for the honesty it's such a good deal it was after my divorce so i needed chairs mine were falling apart and so i got them on like paypal

for payment on payments so it took me a few months and it took a few months for the chairs to get here too so all So 21 months ago, you're sitting by yourself in Montgomery, Texas and you've got these two kids and they're sleeping and you've got your head in your hands and you say, it's time. Tell us about what happened. So my debt-free snowball started in 2021,

but I heard about the snowball in 2017 or 2019 when i was still married and we had we were so normal we had all the debt all the credit cards and every time we would get a chunk of money a bonus uh taxes whatever we would pay off a credit card and then we'd start paying off the other. And by the time we got paid off the other, we already racked up on the one that we just paid off, right? You collected some more. So it was a vicious cycle. And then I remember sitting down that year, 2017, 2018, and I just Googled how to pay

off credit cards because I was raised to never use credit. And so I was raised to live on the list that I make on saving money. That's insane, Anna. I know. That's insane. And I went to college debt-free, too. Like, I worked my butt off. But somewhere along the way, we started wrecking off debt.

And I wasn't taught how to, like, pay it off. I mean, I didn't know. You know, we had so much that it was, it just seemed impossible. So I remember sitting down in my dining table. On the dining chairs. No, no, no. I was married. I was married. Yeah. Um, and so, cause it wasn't me now to figure it out. And so I just like Googled how to pay credit cards and it was all this um you know debt consolidation move your credit cards to this card and I was like that makes no sense and a few pages you know took that far to get to a Ramsey pages to get to Ramsey and all it said is like snowball

and I read it and it makes sense and so I presented it to my ex-husband now and nothing happened we just kept living the way we were living and then 2020 happened and my marriage was falling apart and I lost my job oh no. And then my dad passed away. And so in the summer of 2020, I filed for divorce and I got a job, the job that I have now. I knew it was sales, so I just knew that the sky is the limit. And I started with a base salary. And then it just went off from there, but it took a while.

And so I filed for divorce and three months later it was finalized. And on paper, you know, like in my head, I could afford things. Like I could afford my house and I could afford, I changed my cars, I downsized and I was totally okay with that. But in my head, I could afford my house and I could afford I changed my cars I downsized um and I was totally okay with that but in my head even I could afford my house payment and groceries and just the

basic things and even the minimum payments on my credit card and then I couldn't and so things in those six months between my divorce being finalized and when I started, there were weeks where I had like $8 to my name. Wow. That's terrifying, right? It is. Yeah. So you went from an emotional crawl to a financial sprint. Yeah.

And how do you even do that? I'm just, that's just the kind of person I am. I go from zero to 100 in like no time. Wow. You're a hero. Okay, so what does it feel like now? It's great. I love it.

Like I'm never going back. Whenever you go home and you watch the clip of this, I want you to watch your body language because when you tell your story about your body remembers your marriage falling apart, your dad passing away your whole body shrinks and then just asking you how does it feel now it's like somebody turned all the lights on in the lobby out there yeah i mean i tell everyone like don't stop living the way that you are because everyone i know is normal and you know i did like a no spend february

because i was like i'm tired of this and i remember i had 300 because I was like, I'm tired of this. And I remember I had $300 and I was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. I have $300 without even having a budget. And then I downloaded every dollar app in March. And I kind of toyed around with that going back to my bank statements, like December, January, and even February. And I set my budget and April it was on. And how did you get these two little ones to follow with you? Oh, I mean, if I did Uber Eats,

they were in the car with me. Oh, fantastic. So they got to see mom. Hey, you have given them a legacy-shifting gift, because they're never going to forget that. In college, someone's going to be like, hey, let's just go get a credit card, and you're going to be like,

I remember driving around with my mom. And I wasn't shy about talking to them about the money problems. I mean, I didn't burden them. But I did share, like, no, we're not doing this because we're going to do this. We did go to birthday parties. But instead of bringing the flashy gift, I brought a token for frozen yogurt and a handmade card and a handmade bag or whatever. And so that's how they contributed.

And it was a lot of no's. Well, more is caught than taught. And what they caught from watching mom be a hero is going to sit with them for the rest of their lives. I hope so. That goon on the college campus going, here kid, here's a credit card and a free pizza. He's going to stiff arm that guy and be like, no. Absolutely. I saw my mom fight to get over this.

But I also need you to know this. There are millions of single parents watching this right now. Yeah. And they can't breathe. I know. And they got two little kids and their world's falling apart. And the mom calls and says, dad's not doing well. And you have single-handedly shined a light in a really dark moment.

We can all sit up here and talk and they're like, oh, it's real easy for you guys. And Anna, you've taken away the darkness in so many lives by just saying no more. No more, no more, no more. You know, I hate the spotlight

but the sharing my story and I know that there's a single parent out there, mom or dad. Lots of them. That are going through this and they don't see the light

and I didn't see the light. You're an inspiration. And all you need is the process and it works. Isabella and Nicholas, your mom's a gangster. You know never to mess with her, correct? Oh yeah. Excellent. That's awesome.

We've got the living give box for you that includes the total money makeover, of course Baby Steps Millionaires, your next chapter in your story, and a year of Financial Peace University so that you can kickstart someone else's journey. Thank you. And you can give it away. Alright, so we've got $38,470

paid off in 21 months, making $54,000 to $98,000 from the ashes. The Phoenix Rose. And here she is standing before us, paid us all off. It's time to do your debt-free screen. Let's let it rip. One, oh no, three,

two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! one oh no three two one wear that free awesome i wish my mom was that cool back then you know what a hero i love my favorite part of this show is debt-free screams especially the excuse busters yeah Yeah, but I have. Yeah, but I have. Yeah, but I know Anna. Nothing's stopping her now. I know Anna. Not with her finances, not with her career, not with nothing.

If you are listening to this, no one can stop you either if you just say today's the day. This is The Ramsey Show. today's scripture of the day is matthew 5 14 through 50 you are the light of the world a town built on a hill cannot be hidden neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl instead they put it on its stand and get and it gives light to everyone in the house. Brene Brown says, numb the dark and you numb the light. Numb the dark and you numb the light. I love that. Love that. Love that. All right. Let's go out to Richard in Jacksonville, Florida. What's up, Richard? Hey, how's it going? Outstanding. How are you? Doing great.

So basically, so I've been kind of following Dave Ramsey since 2013, where I actually read his book. I'm in the Coast Guard, and actually that's when I got introduced to it. Very cool, man. My dad got me the book, and, you know, I've been trying to follow those baby steps as best as possible. My question to you all is we're about to PCS over to Puerto Rico and we live near Jacksonville, Florida, and we're not sure if we should be selling our house or renting it. We do owe a little bit on it, but it is mostly paid off. We know that we could sell it

for $300,000 or about $300,000 and or rent it out for about $2,000 a month. We owe 76 on it at a 2.87% conventional loan. And we bought it for $215,000. So basically in three years, we got it down to 76. Way to go. So how long are you going to be in Puerto Rico? It's going to be for three years and our housing and utilities are going to be included because we're going to be government housing. So we don't have to worry about any payment. So basically, I can get straight to step six because I will have no house if I were to sell.

However, it could be an income stream, especially with the low interest rate. And I'm totally against that. I don't have any other debt. So this is pretty much what I'm working with. So I'm going to answer you what I would do if this is just my family, and George can give you a more numbers-driven answer. I would not want to be a landlord on the other side of the world.

And I know other side of the world is relative here, but I would want to be a landlord one state over when dealing with a company that's going to come in and manage the property or when the air conditioner goes out or the dishwasher leaks and causes the floor, sub-floor to rot. I just want to deal with that. I'd much rather have cash in just a regular money market account, if you will, let it sit there, throw it in a Vanguard account for a few years, and just let it sit so that when we come back to the States, and quite honestly, Puerto Rico is incredible if you come back to the States, then you can buy a place when you come back.

Would you for sure be stationed back in Jacksonville when you came back? No. So I would actually likely not be back in Jacksonville. I'd back? No. So it will actually likely not be back in Jacksonville. I'm actually from Puerto Rico. That's home for me, but it'll probably be, who knows, likely probably Washington, D.C. is my guess. Okay. Yeah. Then I'm selling, and here's another option for you, Richard. If you do sell it, let's say you net 200 grand. Is that fair to say after fees? Sure.

If you just park that 200 grand in a high yield savings account, which right now we're tracking at about 4%, you would make eight grand a year, guaranteed. And so when you look at renting this place out, even for two grand, you still have expenses, property management, you've got to pay the mortgage. You may not even net the eight grand in a year. And so I'm taking the hassle factor out of here knowing you're not going to come back. I'm going to sell it. And I know you're worried because the interest rate is so good, but you're going to be at a different place when you come back financially, emotionally, mentally, physically, where you're located. So I'm selling this thing if I'm in your shoes. Absolutely. Does that sound good? Sounds like a very straightforward answer.

There you go. That's all you get out of us. I know it sounds so cool to be like, I'm a landowner and I've got a rental property back. It's free money. But man, it feels really good to have a couple hundred thousand dollars in a bank account too. I mean, especially with the interest rates right now and savings accounts. Yeah, they're doing all right. You can do better there than you can dealing with a renter when you've got a mortgage on the place.

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the get clear career assessment to help you discover your top talents, passions, and a clear mission statement that'll help you find the work the world needs you to do. After taking the quick assessment, you'll get a custom report with everything you need to take that first step towards a meaningful career. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash get clear to start your journey and take the get clear assessment today. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash get clear. All right, let's go out to Salt Lake City, Utah and talk to Carlos. What's up, Carlos? Hey, Carlos.

That's you, man. I'm John. What's up, dude? I never thought I would be on this show, so I'm big fans of you guys. I have a question. So me and my brothers, we own a plumbing and HVAC business, and we're having a little a little issue with with pay so we're able to to pay ourselves and our company like during the our busiest years between May all the

way to the probably around November we did 1.1 million. But the slow season, December, January, February, and March, we're like, we're barely swinging by. We lost one employee because we couldn't keep him that busy. So my question is, should we just take out like a line of credit to pay ourselves? And can we still got to pay our master plumber? And we have to pay accountants, and we still got to pay truck payments.

We have, I think, one or two truck payments. Carlos, hold on. Hold on. Do you have enough work? Are y'all making enough money? Do you have enough business cash flow to pay your bills? Yeah. Do you have any debt on the business currently?

The only thing that we have is two trucks on there. We have a loan for two trucks. What's that amount to? That amounts to $18,000. Okay. I don't think the solution here is to go into debt to keep the business afloat, and that is going to continue compounding the better solution is to figure out either how do we have enough revenue to cover those months that we're down or even better how do we find even a different line of work where we can make this sustainable december through march to bring in some revenue but i would not take a line of credit to pay yourselves you're if you, brother, you are digging a hole that one slow month will bury you, man. You end up having to sell a truck to make the line of credit payment and you're going to find yourself in a mess. It will eventually tank your business to go this route. So I'd

actually go to the root of the problem and fix that, which is we got to figure out how do other businesses create revenue December through March? Are those the months that you're struggling? Yeah. So December through March, April, the end of April is when we kind of start getting a little bit busy. It starts getting a little warmer. Okay.

So yeah, that's usually our busiest season. So here's what I would recommend you do, Carlos. I would recommend you take two or three guys in Salt Lake City who are plumbers that you trust that have been doing this for a while, take them out for coffee, just business owner to business owner, and say, hey, what do you guys do between December and April? Just asking you straight. We're running slow. And the annoying word here is vulnerability. It's getting a couple people you trust and just saying, hey, times are rough these four months, and we're starting to think about other ideas for revenue streams during these months.

What does that look like for y'all? And some of them will laugh at you at some moment. So you just take out a line of credit. All right, cool, great. Those are off the table for me. What's another idea? And then you're going to get to some really ingenious ideas. Small business owners are some of the most creative people in the world

because they have to be. I know landscaping companies that hang up Christmas lights during the wintertime because they can't mow lawns. And they rake leaves and they pick up sticks. And they'll make great money doing that. Exactly. But it's a way to just keep the thing going over time. So, Carlos, the bottom line here is

don't put your small business in further jeopardy by tying its success to a bank. You don't need any more voices in there, man. Sit down with some folks. Get some ideas. Sit down with your team and get some ideas, and let's roll forward. Hey, that's it for the Ramsey Show today. I want to thank James and Ben and Ibu and the crew out in the booth. And I want to thank you, America, for listening to the show.

George, great show. Good times, man. You're getting better at this. Appreciate that. Appreciate you. And everybody listening, take care of each other. Be kind and let that person on the highway next to you, let them over. The whole world will be better for it.

We'll see you soon. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramsaysolutions.com and click Get Started.