The Ramsey Show - App - How Quickly Should I Make Financial Decisions After a Death? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Mike's in Akron, Ohio to start off this hour. Hey, Mike, how are you? I've been better, Dave. It's a pleasure to talk to both you and Chris.

You too, sir. My wife and I found you in November, December of last year after a conversation that I had with her about worrying about being able to retire. She had worked in finance pretty much all of her life, and we were dutifully working through baby step two. Unfortunately, my wife passed away September 6th. Oh, my goodness. What happened? Honestly, I don't know.

We had an autopsy performed. I'm believing it had something to do with her heart. She was only 33 years old, though, so with my three daughters, I need to find out what happened. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. I'm sorry. And you have three daughters?

Yes. What ages are your babies? Audrey, she just turned five last week, and the twins are two and a half. Oh, my. Well, yeah, I understand. I can't breathe with you. So how can we best help you today, sir? Okay, I'll try to make this as quick as I can. Between her retirement programs and she worked for a university here in town. Um, I would have enough money to finish paying off the rest of the debt that we have and including the house when everything comes through, but I wouldn't

have a fully funded step three. Um, as far as kids, college funds are concerned because she passed away in service, they actually have fee remission through the university. Wow. So I don't have to worry about that. My question is, is it okay to have a not fully funded Step 3 to get out of the house debt, the mortgage? And secondary to that, do you think – I do have the option to roll a few of these retirement programs into myself, but according to our budget, I'm at a deficit after losing her income. Yeah. So I'm trying to rectify the budget as best I can while doing this. So I don't have to move. Well, you won't be in a, you won't be in a deficit if you don't have any bills.

Right. If the debt's gone, you don't have a deficit right okay so that's two separate issues then um so uh uh i i uh where there's an extreme situation like this i always try to go slow uh some things are no-brainers and so what i would do is write a check and pay off all the where there's an extreme situation like this, I always try to go slow. Some things are no-brainers, and so what I would do is write a check and pay off all the consumer debt today. And that gets your budget balanced, doesn't it? Not the consumer debt. The only consumer debt I've left are student loans,

and those are currently on hold. Yeah, you're paying them off. Okay. Okay. Right. So you can't pay the house payment and the rest of your budget with your income? Currently, no. Not until everything else comes in. What do you owe on the house?

$152,000. Not until everything else comes in. Well, I don't have access to the insurance money or anything like that yet. I've been pulling everything together for the lawyers per their request. Oh, I understand. I know the numbers. I understand. But what I'm saying is when you get the money and you pay off all the student loan debt

and you don't have anything but the $152,000 mortgage, you can't make that budget. Is that what you're saying? When I get the money, yes. But my thought was... No, I'm talking about your income. With my income, no. Because the girls are all in daycare. Daycare eats up a lot of money, Dave.

Yeah, I know. What do you make? I make $75 a year. What is the payment, Mike, on the mortgage? $1,304. Okay. And how much in life insurance did your wife have? I don't know if she meant to do this on purpose or if it was by accident.

I'm not sure, but she has it going four ways to me and three girls. What was the dollar amount? $250, I believe, right around there. And so she has it going, splitting between the four of you, or you're the primary as the spouse? No, she has the beneficiaries listed as all four of us. It would be going to all four of us. Okay, so you would have signed something to authorize that?

No. Really? Well, here's the deal. You're the custodian. You're the parent. So it's $250,000 that's going to be coming in at some point. I didn't know how that would work. I think you need to get some legal advice on that

because I'm not sure how that's going to work. You may need to split off the girl's money and set it aside to be legal. If you use the girl's money to pay off the house, that could bite you later. So I'm not sure we want to do that. And you weren't planning to do that is the calculation I'm feeling, right? That is correct. Okay. All right. So, uh, if there's any, here's what I would try to do. If there's any way you can do this, if you can pay off the student loans, get your, and you can figure out a way to make the house payment, I would not pay off the house immediately. And I for sure don't want to pay it off and have zero money left in the emergency fund.

I agree. That I wouldn't ever tell you to do. So we've got to do something different. Now, I might use some of her inherited IRA money. If she had 401K or IRA, that doesn't roll to you. That becomes an inherited IRA as a spouse. You can pull that out without any penalty, but it'll have taxes on it. And I might use some of that to finish up

the emergency fund or finish up paying off the house. But I'd rather not do big moves in the midst of this level of grief. If there's a way you can just pay off enough stuff to get balanced, then just kind of cry for six months and kind of get on autopilot and then decide, do I want to keep this house? Are these memories driving me out of this house? Yes. And that kind of a thing. Yes. And, Mike, I want to, number one, my prayers are going to you and your family.

I can't imagine what you're walking through. But I really want to encourage you to make sure that you don't walk through this alone. I want you to get connected to a counselor. I want you to get connected to a counselor. I want you to get some men around you. You are going to be very busy being both parents to your kids. But at the same time, you need to make sure you've got support and people you can talk to. I'm a master isolator. So I'm telling you this from knowledge.

This is not the direction you want to go. You want to make sure you're opening up and talking to people about your feelings, about your heart being broken, and about how you're going to pick up the pieces to your life to move forward. Life is not meant to be done alone, brother. I'm praying for you, and I hope you get connected with some people that can help you. So, I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to go through.

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This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Tim is with us in Knoxville. Hi, Tim. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Chris. How are you guys doing? Great. How can we help? Good. So I'm an Air Force National Guard service member,

and I have a 100% tuition coverage available with the Tennessee Strong Act. My question today is if I should pause going back to school to finish getting debt-free faster now with getting second jobs. How much debt do you have? My wife and I have left $29,000 in debt. Right. And what does she make? She makes about $30,000 a day. Right. And what does she make? She makes about $30,000. And what do you currently make? About $33,000 a year right now.

Okay. And you can continue to make that while you go to school? Yes. You just lose the extra job money? Yes. And how much do you lack finishing school? How long will it take you? At least two years to finish a bachelor's,

and pursuing a bachelor's in business, and then to pursue a master's in divinity. What are you trying to ultimately do, Tim? Pastoral and chaplaincy okay okay and this 29 000 that you owe break that down what type of debt is it a 10 000 on a student loan previously and then 14000 left on one car and about $3,000 left on one credit card. All right. And then I am 28 and my wife is almost 31. Okay.

So how long does it take you to pay off this debt if you don't go back to school right now? A year? Two years. Why? Why? You make $65,000 plus you're working an extra jobs, so you're making $80,000. Why does it take two years to pay off $29,000? That doesn't make sense.

Right now we don't have extra jobs. We are considering getting a second job. I know, but I'm just saying if you were going to do this, you would work. If you were not going back to school, your question was, don't go back to school and take an extra job and be debt-free. You should be debt-free in a year, man. Certainly, yes.

If we had a second job, I imagine we're... If you're not going back to school, it's so that you get a second job. That's what you said. Yes. Okay's so you're debt-free in one year do i delay school one year to get this off of me yeah i sure do absolutely as an adult student in this situation absolutely i do because tim for obvious math reasons you

would do this but even think longer term of what it is you want to do. You want to get your bachelor's and you want to get a master's in divinity to go into pastoral care. So, you know, the path you're going on is not going to be a massive income. You're feeling a calling. Well, let's remove the stressing out of your life from the form of debt. It's just one year. You can do this. Yeah, I would do that. And I would work like six extra jobs and i'd be done

with this fast yeah well i think the extra job idea just came out of your mouth dave i don't think they had he said that yeah well it was discussed they aren't doing it no no well it's up to him but i mean he said do i delay i thought the question was do i delay going to school one year so that i can get out of debt faster working an extra job that's right because he's going to keep his full-time job either way. And do an additional. And then all of that's going toward the debt. So, Tim, that's your plan.

That gets you your degree. That gets you out of debt. It gets you your degree. And it moves you in a direction you want to be in life. Barb is in Colorado Springs. Hey, Barb, how are you? Hello, gentlemen. First of all, I want to thank you, Dave. In 2015, you told a lady to tell her husband,

who had the thinking of having that write-off on the taxes instead of the interest on the mortgage payment, and my engineering husband said, it's like the light bulb went on, and five months of arguing went away, and on Valentine's Day of 2018, we paid off our ranch in Colorado Springs. I love it.

Good for you. We were debt-free. He could not believe how simple it was. Good for you. That's my question. So we're debt-free, except for some land that we own out east, and we have renters there, so it's paying for itself. I have a home, my childhood home in San Diego that I'm emotionally attached to that I inherited from my mother four years ago. I have wonderful Christian mentors in the home because California is going so downhill and it's

just getting worse. My husband thinks I should sell the house. One of my sons I've talked to thinks I should sell, but I'm so emotionally attached. And I'm asking God, praying every night for guidance of what to do. What do I do with my house? I have a $380,000 mortgage on it because my mother had a reverse mortgage. Otherwise, it was paid for. And so what do I do? Well, the financial answer is you sell the house immediately. But there's an emotional and relational answer

that i can't answer for you uh i'm attached to this house your childhood home your mother left it to you but she left it to you full of debt and um so it's um you know there's no way you would go borrow 280 000 to buy a rental property in San Diego. No. And effectively, that's what you're doing every day when you wake up. It's still sitting there with that money owed on it, right? Yes, and the market is so hot in that area. I've already talked to my realtor out there of what I can probably give for it,

and I already have plans here at my realtor in Colorado for a duplex investment that we could take part of that money and pay cash, and we could own it. So let me ask you this. Okay. Okay. Your mom passed away four years ago, right? Mm-hmm. I can't, I mean, I don't know her,

but I can't imagine her saying you should just keep this house forever as a keepsake. Yes, she did. Oh, really? She said if I could keep it in the family, then please do. Why? Because it was the only home she ever owned. She lived in it for 52 years before she passed away. So she was emotionally attached to it.

She was, because she lived in a really bad background, and it was the only home she ever had. And I said I would do that best I possibly can. My children don't want the house. So it's not going to stay in in the family until except as long as you hold it and i'm the only one to make the decision because my husband says your house you grew up there i didn't yeah that's wise he you have to make the emotional part of the decision yeah he's already told you his opinion and your boys have to and i have to but we're all doing that in light

of you have to you know i don't want you crying for three years after you sell this house because you feel like you like you dishonored your mother's memory or something right and and barb here's the reality you selling this home right now being able to do that duplex is an opportunity to continue it's still the blessing of your mom of her leaving you that inheritance and an opportunity for you to do good for you and your family. But that's tough. I understand why mom was attached to it, now that you give me the background.

And then her emotion has transferred to you, and I understand that. I can't think of a scenario where I look out 20 years you're still on this house and are glad you do yeah um you know it's almost like a guilt trip thing like you're holding it because of a guilt trip and uh um so i but that's something you have to release i can't do that for you so i think you're doing the right thing. You said you were praying about it, and I'm going to start asking God for peace. And, oh, by the way, Mom doesn't own this house, and you don't own it. You said you're a believer, a person of faith. You don't own it.

You're managing it for God. It's his. So what does he want you to do with his house in San Diego? That's another way of looking at it. Yes, it is. Maybe that way Mom doesn't get a say. You know, it's a different thing. I don't know.

It's hard, though. It is hard, legitimately. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Dead Free Stage, Dylan and Aubrey are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, how are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Little Rock.

We're just south of Little Rock, Arkansas. All right. Welcome to Nashville. Y'all look awfully calm. You look like you've done something, haven't you? How much debt have you paid off? $87,766. Way to go.

How long did this take? 15 months. Cool. And your range of income during that time? $60,000 to $130,000. Nice jump. Okay, so you doubled your income in 15 months. That means somebody got a job or something?

We started a lawn care landscape business and lived off of my salary. And Dylan, finally this year, second year of business, started making a little money. That helped a lot. So not necessarily got a job, but when the company becomes profitable. Way up. Lots of side jobs help too. Yeah, I hear you. So what kind of debt was the 88K?

Everything. Literally. Literally. Family loans, student loans, car loans. Credit cards. Yeah. You name it, we got it. You were normal and then some plus yeah

dylan who's the spender in this family both of us okay you threw that out there fast dude i did so uh what happened 15 months ago that started this journey well we were at my parents house and they were cleaning out their books and my parents had rental property and investments and listen to you. And she had the Total Money Makeover book to donate. And I was like, I think we'll take that one and a few more. And we went home, and I was like, I'm going to read this tonight. And every time I read something good, I'd be like, babe, I've got to read this to you. And I'd read it out loud, and I think I ended up reading the whole book out loud to him.

And by the time I was done, we were both on board and ready to go and and the sun was coming up yeah well I think it took me two days to finish it maybe three yeah all right very cool Dylan what did you think when she started reading this stuff to you did you roll your eyes and say she's crazy no she might be on to something I was ready to to go. Were you really? It made sense. Very good. Good for you guys. That is good. Well, you kicked it. You kicked it.

Did you sell stuff? Not a lot. I totaled a car. That's about it. Yep. Never replaced it. I still don't have a car. I carpool to work.

Okay. So that one got paid off. Yes. With the insurance money, right? How much was that? Like 12 grand. Okay. And the rest of it, you just cash flowed like beans and rice, rice and beans.

That's it. Because you guys have been living on nothing to pull these numbers off yeah and in the process we'd look at each other and be like okay this is miserable we're so tired we want to be able to go do something and now that we're after the fact i told dylan i was like i don't feel like we were gazelle intense i mean now i look back we weren't as miserable as we felt in the moment just glad to be through it. Yeah, I hear you. Well, you can do anything for 15 months, right? Right. Exactly.

And you did. You lit it up, man. Well done. So now that you're out of debt, what do you tell people the key is? You're successful. You paid off $88,000. Work instead of sleep. Yeah, go to work.

Go to work. I think we get an average of five hours of sleep a night. That's about it. Otherwise, we're pretty much working. You got kids yet? No. Y'all are prepared. You're getting five hours of sleep.

You're in training camp right now. I don't know. Don't know. Not ready for that yet. Did you all have any cheerleaders along the way? Pretty much everybody we talked to about it was excited for us. We didn't have a single friend that was like, y'all shouldn't do that. Y'all are crazy.

They actually ask us more questions about what they should be doing. My parents have gotten back on board and are working the baby steps again. His mom and dad were really after us. They supported us every step of the way. Yeah, that's really neat. Very neat. Fun, guys. So now all this strain is 15 months.

Looking back on it, it doesn't feel as strenuous as when you were in it, is what you said. Yeah. But now you're free. Free. How's that feel? Pretty good. Pretty excited. We can see some bigger pictures of what we could actually do with our life now.

It's kind of cool. That's a good way of saying it. That is a great statement. Yeah. It really is. Well done. And not to mention if and when you do decide to have a family, the opportunity to be able it's a good way of saying that is a great statement yeah it really is well done and not to mention if and when you do decide to have a family the opportunity to be able to be in the

moment and be present right and focus is an absolute blessing yeah very well done guys proud of you and uh i have to tell you this growing up my dad listened to you on the radio and he would say stuff about dave ramsey and i was like, I don't know who this Dave Ramsey guy is. I don't care. Would you just, like, why do you listen to him all the time? I'd hate talk radio. Now Dylan's listening to 4,000 hours of your podcast. And I can look back on things and be like, oh, my dad was trying to teach me this, and I was like 10 years old.

And here I am, 23, and I actually get it. So it's just funny. Well, the older you get, once you break 20, the smarter your parents get. So that's how it works. Yeah. Well done. Very well done. Good job, you guys.

Man, I'm proud of you. Rock stars, heroes. You did it. You killed it. Very, very cool. All right. It is Dylan and Aubrey from Little Rock, Arkansas area. $88,000 paid off in 15 months.

We've got a copy of Chris's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story. They did this making $60,000 to $130,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah.

Well done, you guys. Yes. Very, very well done. Excellent work. Marty is in Atlanta. Hey, Marty, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hey, Chris.

Thanks for taking my question. Sure. What's up? Okay. We had to refinance our house during the recession in 2011 for a 30-year mortgage. Of course, we didn't find you until 2018 to know that it was wrong. I called probably back in July just to see where I was at because I knew that I was making a payment. I was doing half a payment every two weeks, which adds an extra payment each year. And then also I think at one point I had some extra escrow,

and I just kept that in there and kept making that same payment. And according to them, I will have this paid off in 2032. I'm at a 5% interest rate a little under 63 000 so my question is should i refinance are you going to stay in the home i'm gonna say i'm not really quite sure on that one well for how long how long do you know you're going to be there? I would say for maybe three or four more years. Okay. So any closing costs?

And it's possible that we will stay here. Any closing costs that you have would have to be recouped with the savings by doing that. Now, you should be able to save a lot off a 5% rate. And you said the balance is only $63,000. Yes. What's the house worth? Probably, as sitting, it needs a few repairs, probably around $225,000. Okay.

So you probably don't get a traditional mortgage with traditional closing costs on this. Number one, mortgage companies don't like to make – this is a tiny little loan for a mortgage company. They don't like to fool with it. And so they're going to charge you a bunch of extra fees and stuff for screwing with a small loan instead i would go to your local bank not a big bank not a mega bank your regional local bank or your credit union are you a member of a credit union no sir okay if you got access just to a local bank i'm not talking about sun trust i'm not talking about bank of America. I would never even go near those places. Just your local good bank and establish a relationship. This is a loan they will want to keep in-house,

and it's more like a home equity loan than it is a mortgage. Okay? Okay. So what you're looking for is a quote, and write this down because it's very important. The home equity loans almost all are variable, and you don't want variable you want a fixed rate okay okay and i want a fixed term 10 years you got 12 left now put it on 10 years okay i want a 10-year loan at a fixed rate it's a 63 000 loan,000 loan on a $225,000 house.

This is what's known as a no-brainer. Yep. And so you guys need to make me a deal. Oh, by the way, no closing cost. Okay. Fixed rate, no closing cost, 10 years. Okay. And you have to hold on that because they're going to want to go,

oh, they're going to want to put you in one of their home equity products, and it's going to be a variable rate, and that's not what you want, and it's not even got a term on it. It's just a revolving loan, and you don't want to screw with that. You want just a straight-up 10-year home loan. Yep. That's all you want. And if they can't do that, go to a different bank.

Go somewhere else. That's exactly right. He just gave you the formula. It'll help you get it done. i think you can get a three percent rate on what i just told you and if you do you're going to save two percent which is twelve hundred dollars a year which is nice and no closing costs so you can move whenever you want it doesn't hurt anything to refi this is the dave ramsey show show. our scripture of the day hebrews 10 35 36 therefore do not throw away your confidence which has a great reward for you have need of endurance so that when you have done the will of god you may receive what was promised. Eleanor Roosevelt said, a good leader inspires people to have confidence in the leader.

A great leader inspires people to have confidence in themselves. Jeremy is with us in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Jeremy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too.

What's up? So, last week I had the pleasure of entering Dave Step 7 and paying off my first house, and I'm curious on what I should do next. Well done. Yes. Well done. Well, we always call, you know, Baby Step 7 is a pretty basic in that we just say build wealth and give, right?

And so there's only three things. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. So I just had a few things I wanted to do with the money in the future would be, so I paid off, like I said, I paid off my first house. Someday I want to get a second house, start getting into rentals, and I probably need a new car in the next four years.

Just curious on how I should save for that and or move forward with life. Yeah. Well, it's just intentionality. The same thing got you here. And so you're just setting some goals. You're going to buy a car, and then we're going to set the goal to buy a piece of real estate. And then you'll set a goal to buy another piece of real estate and set a goal to do whatever. I don't care. I had some generosity goals beyond that. I

maxed out, and I still max out, all retirement, meaning I keep the government's hands off of anything I can because they're not going to handle it well. Nope. And so I utilize anything like that I can. I make sure the estate plan is completely done and buttoned up, the wills, the life insurance, all that kind of stuff. And so then we're just managing. There's three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can enjoy it, and you can invest it so that you can give it and enjoy it more. And so it ends up being two things at the end of the day.

But I take a percentage of my income beyond our living expenses, and I invest it. I take an extra percentage for giving beyond the tithe, and I take an extra percentage for enjoyment beyond our normal living expenses. And that totals up 100% after taxes and tithe, of course. But that's, you know, I just work a formula like that, and then within those things I can set a goal. I want to buy a car, I want to buy a boat, I want to buy whatever, toys or enjoyment junk, you know, maybe a trip or something like that. And then on the other side I can do investing, and then I can have some really cool generosity goals. And that's where you are. You're

in really good shape. We get, how old are you? I'm 26. Unicorn. Well done. That is fantastic, buddy. Jeremy, I'm serious. Here's what I want you to also take into account. You have to take debt as an option off of the table. Okay. No, I mean, and remind yourself of that because what's going to happen is, is as you are growing and building wealth, you're going to have opportunities and people come your way that are bringing something disguised as debt, which is hashtag Latin for stupid, right? They're having it there. And so you've just got to stay on guard. Even as you're talking about real estate,

you're doing that with cash very intentionally and moving methodically down the process. But just be aware because I'm telling you it's going to come. And if you let your guard down, you'll slip up. Regina's in Las Vegas. Hi, Regina. How are you? Well, good day, Dave and Chris.

Nice to talk to you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm currently under litigation in family court, and I'm back there again. It's kind of been an ongoing thing. My court date started in March, and because COVID happened, our court date pushed back to November now. I took out a 401k loan, and I used my emergency fund to retain this

attorney that I have and I'm now back to baby step one. So today he asked that I take out a loan or get a credit card to pay him. He's promised that he's going to see me through this case but it's a very delicate situation and I can't do it without the attorney. What would you do if you hooked up in my shoes? What do you make? What's your income? Just about $45,000 take-home. Okay, and how much have you paid the attorney so far?

I paid him a little over $4,000. Okay. And you're single? Yes, sir. Okay. And how much money does he want now? He just wants me to catch up, which I owe him right about $4,300 now. Another $4,300? Yes, sir. So you owe him $8,300. You will have paid him $8,300. Yes. And you make $4,500 and we're not done. Correct.

And when will this issue be resolved? My prayers are for November, but I'm feeling like this is going to be an ongoing issue. And even if we get something resolved in November, it's probably still going to be going. Well, that's not going to work. I agree with you, sir. I'm just, I'm, I'm stumped because I can't physically go get a loan. I'm, I'm having trepidations about it. Well, no, the problem is, you know, what are you going to do? This goes on forever.

Are you going to go $100,000 in debt paying this attorney? No. So when does it end? It has to have an end. Because you can't sustain this mathematically. I agree. I think that's the opposing counsel's goal. I just don't know what to do.

Yeah, whoever's on the other side is also spending real money. Well, they have unlimited sources. They're on Madoff. Oh. Yes. That's why I'm going through this again. It's been almost eight years in the making. From the Madoff situation?

Yes, sir. Okay. I've had an ex-husband who just wants to break me and wants to take my daughter. And I am doing the best I can with what I own. And I'm back to baby step one. And in good conscience, I cannot go get a loan, but I don't know where to turn. Yeah. Well, what they have, Regina, out there, each law firm has so many hours that they do pro bono, which is where they give these,

they donate these hours. This guy doesn't. This guy isn't, and it might be a matter of having a real-life conversation with him to find out the timeframe, his estimation of how long this is going to take. And it might mean you having to reach out to find an attorney that can hear your cause and understand what you're trying to do and is willing to help you a little bit better than this. Yeah. I think you're going to have to adjust your budget for and get an extra job to cover this upcoming attorney's fees. And he's going to get them more gradually than you're just going and getting a loan. Because the problem is if you go get a loan and then you do it again and then you do it again and then you do it again,

this is not a scalable answer to the problem. You cash-flowing the attorney's fees is a scalable answer to the problem you cash flowing the attorney's fees is a scalable answer to the problem um and so if you said all right i'm gonna i know that i'm gonna have to fight this x as long as this kid is here and uh so i know i'm gonna have twelve thousand dollars a year in attorney's fees and i'm just gonna put that in my budget like it's a bill and i'm just gonna you know i'm always gonna have something going on with this guy and um guy. And you've got to build your budget around that so that it's almost like a chronic illness that you have to be able to build your income and your outgo in such a way that you can cover the drugs that are needed, and in this case, the attorney's fees that are needed.

So the first thing we need to do is get ahead of, get ahead of the 4,300 new one and, um, and just tell him, I just can't go borrow money because that's not sustainable. What I can do is I can get you paid. Um, I'm going to take extra jobs and I'm going to do this and that. And, you know, and then I'm going to start budgeting for regular attorney's fees so that this doesn't happen again. um but yeah there's a there's a lot going on in this thing that we're not seeing a hundred percent of it i'm sure a lot of things going on i'm so sorry but yeah you're going to have to set up a situation that's sustainable borrowing into it is not sustainable that's why it's giving you the willies if you just go get a loan and cover this that'd be you know that that would probably work. I was going to say that'd be fine.

It's not fine. But it would probably work out because there's an end to it. But you're saying it's not an end. It's not an end. No. And so it's a chronic disease. And so you're going to have to build your budget in such a way that you continually support attorneys to the tune of $10,000 or $12,000 a year, it sounds like.

What a mess. That is. Chris, thanks for hanging out. Thank you for having me, sir. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniels, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey guys, this is Kelly, associate producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to DaveRamsey.com slash show