The Ramsey Show - App - How Should I Use My Tax Refund? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

Ken Coleman & Kristina Ellis answer your questions and discuss: "Should we pay off the house while we're expecting?"  How to use a tax refund, from the blog: What Do I Do With My Tax Refund? "Should I sleep in my car to save money?" The 10 worst-paying college degrees, "What would a new career look like for me?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Christina Ellis is my colleague and joins me this hour. The phone number is free to jump in on the conversation because it is about you.

888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. So Christina and I are here together, and while we take those general questions, we also love to team up in our specific areas of expertise. Christina is a true, unbelievably knowledgeable expert on how to go to college without going into debt. She's a bestselling author and working on some really fun stuff that we can't wait to talk about in the days ahead. And then I'm helping people specifically when in their work life. So if you feel stuck or you feel scared, you feel

doubtful, you're dealing with some toxicity, horrible leadership, and you're just looking for some help and some ways out, we're taking those specific calls today as well. Let's get started with Alan in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Alan, how can we help? Yes. How are you doing? We're living the dream. What are you doing? I'm about to have a baby in about six months. All right. That's exciting. Yeah. Congrats. Yeah. That's right. It's the fourth one, so we're keeping busy. You're exhausted, aren't you, Alan? You sound exhausted. A little bit, but I also look nice, too, so it kind of makes it all a little bit worse.

Say that again? You broke up. I look nice as well, so it kind of makes the exhaustion even worse. Oh, bless your heart. Okay, I get it. All right, well, how can we help today? Well, I'm wondering, with baby coming about six months, I have the cash to pay off my home. And it would leave me with about $15,000 in cash as well for the backup. And I was just wondering if it would be wiser to go ahead and pay it off now or to wait till after the baby is born in six months. So that $15,000, is that your fully funded emergency fund or is that over and above that? That's emergency fund.

Okay. Is that fully funded? Like would that be about three months of your expenses or six months? Where does that fall? If I lost my job, I can go i can cut the expenses back to about fifteen hundred dollars a month and so it could last me six months if the house is paid off okay and if it's not paid off about how is that about yeah about three months maybe okay and how much do you have left on the house? I have $54,500. Man, I'm just excited for you. The fact that this is even a question that we're not in stork mode and talking about like, oh man, what do we do? This is great. I mean, it's one of those situations where there's not really necessarily

like a wrong answer, but we do typically recommend whenever there's a baby coming to kind of hold off and hold on to cash because there's a lot of things that can happen, unexpected expenses. I mean, we're talking about quite a bit of money and paying off a house. If I, I think we just kind of have to frame it in the sense of if I were in your shoes, if I were in your shoes, I would probably hold off until the baby was born or at least just do a portion, especially with the 15K left. That would make me a little bit nervous. I would want to have a really flush emergency fund. I'm also curious, so with the expenses, how much are you anticipating the birth is going to cost and any expenses around baby? I estimate about $4,000 Okay And how much are you making right now? I make $49 a year

$49 a year And you said you have four babies at home? Did I hear that correct? This will be number four This will be number four And is your wife, does she stay home? Or what's kind of the rest of your family situation? I'm always a stay-at-home

And that's part of how we kept our expenses down. Yeah, I'm excited. How did you save up the $54,000? Has it just been diligently saving it up? Or did you have the vision to pay off the house? Why did you save it up and wait till this point versus kind of paying it off incrementally? Well, a lot of it was

just being sure that we have any cash for emergencies and stuff like that. And just kind of budgeting, putting things aside as building growth. You know, for like office expenses. You know, if I have to get a new desk or something like that. Make sure, you know, things are very true. So that has built up over time. Yeah.

Let me just clarify real quick. Did you say $5,400 or $54,000? $54,000. $54,000. Okay. So this is a good amount of money. Wow. Yeah. Ken, I'm curious to get your opinion. What would you do? I'd sit tight and just wait until we got through the baby. Yeah. I agree with you. I think you could put maybe a little bit extra on, but I would sit

on the cash until we get through baby number four. And at that point um i would then start to attack it and i because i want you to have that fully funded emergency fund so if it was if it's me you said you owe 50 on the house is that right yeah 54 oh you owe 54 and you've got 54 in the bank i have i have enough i have i have enough to cover all the way, the whole house, and still have $15,000 left over. Gotcha. Yeah, you know what I'd rather you do? I'd rather you get to where you had enough to cover the house, which is $54,000, and then six months expenses. Once I have that number, so $54,000 plus, you understand what I'm saying?

Yes. Then I would pay the house off. I just, I don't want, you're just so close. You have so little left on the house. You're in great shape. You're single income, another baby on the way. I don't think that's what I would do. But again, as Christina said, there's really no wrong answer here, but I would limit my risk and I would get the fully funded emergency fund plus the payoff. Now, but here's the deal. You don't have to wait. So let's just go, let's fast forward to baby coming, I think you said it's six months. Baby comes, baby's healthy, we got the $4,000 in cash to pay it

for the birth. Then I'm going to go, all right, what's my six-month emergency fund number, right? And let's just say it is, let's say you got, he's got plenty in the bank, he's got 50. So let's say the number is 30,000, all right? Because I don't want you cutting way back just to scrim. So let's just say the number is 30, okay? And the payoff on the house is 54. You don't have to wait to get to 74 to pay off the house. What I'm really wanting you to do is build that emergency fund and let's get that. But we can start putting more once we get the emergency fund, which you've already got essentially right now. So now I'm going, whatever the six month emergency fund number is, subtract that. And I would put whatever's left

after you've got that, I'd put it on the house after the baby's born like day one what a celebration right like baby's born and let's say we put 20 grand on the house you know but we still got a fully funded emergency fund now we only have and I'm making this up $34,000 or whatever left on the mortgage and now we attack that but I just I because you know we want him on babyyset 5, right? We want him moving towards the kids. He's got four kids. Saving, you know, that's your ammo.

So like, what's he doing there? So play that out because we got kids that may want to go to school. Yeah, well, and it's like, I do realize like once the house is paid off, then it's like that six month emergency fund may just be $15,000. So that's going to feel really good.

It's just, I know even with the fact that you waited until you had $54,000 to pay it off, I do feel a bit of anxiety around money and making sure things are secure. So I don't think it's really going to hurt to wait six more months. But just when that six-month mark comes, get that house paid off. That is so exciting. It's amazing. Amazing. What a wonderful story of a man taking care of his family.

Congrats on the baby. Congrats on the baby. And making $49,000, y'all. So everybody who's listening who doesn't have a super high income. This is The Ramsey Show. Gotta run. The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman.

Christina Ellis joins me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number. It is your show, America. We're talking about your money, your work, and your relationships. 888-825-5225. We'd love to hear from you. Let's go to Los Angeles, California. Josue is there.

Josue, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Christina. Thank you for having me on the show. Sure. What's going on? Hey, Ken and Christina, thank you for having me on the show. Sure. What's going on? Just a quick question. So I'm restarting the baby steps for the second time and I'm getting a tax refund of $4,500. And I have a car that's the definition of a Dave car. The windows don't work. The AC is always on hot. The hood doesn't stay up. And I've done a few repairs to it, but I'm not sure it's going to last me.

So my question is if I should purchase a new car that's a little more reliable and actually more economic because this thing has a V8 and it just sucks a lot of gas. If I should buy a car that's more reliable and economic or put this towards my $1,000 emergency fund and I can actually pay off a couple of credit cards with the remainder. Well, let's zoom out. Tell us a little bit more about your situation. You said you're starting the baby steps for the second time. What happened the first time? So the first time I was in $130,000 of debt. And actually, I found you guys after I filed for bankruptcy, which kind of felt like I got off with just a slap in the wrist.

So I went and did it again. I got loans and credit cards. And this time, though, I was involved in a motorcycle accident. I broke a couple of bones. I was in the hospital for a week. I was unemployed for three months. So all of these loans, now I'm broke a couple of bones. I was in the hospital for a week. I was unemployed for three months. So all of these loans, now I'm feeling the weight of it. The debt now is less, but it's still pretty significant. It's $40,000 of debt. And so I'm kind of, you know, I just,

I'm frustrated. I'm mad at sad and disappointed at myself. So I just kind of said, you know what? It's time to just settle down and take this step seriously. So I said, enough is enough. I got a new job. I'm starting to do the EveryDollarBudget app, you know, like give every dollar a job. And I did this refund. I got this surprise refund that I wasn't expecting. And it could, you know, kickstart my baby steps or help me buy

a new vehicle. How much was the refund? $4,500. Hey, good job. Good job. The fact that you have been through what you've been through, I know that was hard, and there's probably a lot of shame with the first time around and getting back into debt, but good job coming back around and saying, you know what?

I've had it. That's it. I'm mad, and this time it's it. And it feels like that. You know, my question was going to be, have you had your I've had it moment? But it sounds like you have. Is that correct? Yeah, I have.

You know, with all those lenders calling me while I was in bed and I couldn't, you know, even walk. I was just mad at the banks. I'm like, you're asking me for my payment and I can't even walk right now. And it really lit a fire under me. Yeah. Well, let's go. Okay, let's talk about this car.

So if you sold the car you have right now, the V8, what do you think you could get for it? Not much. Probably about $2,000. Yeah, probably at most $2,000. Yeah, you said it's on its last breath, so it's probably not going to be a lot. What about with the new car that you're looking at, new used car, what are you looking at as a budget? Looking at a budget, probably no more than $3,000 just so that I can have that starter emergency fund. Okay, good. So you're taking the $2,000 from the car you're selling and then $1,000 from the $4,000 refund,

and that's what you're getting your car with. Is that correct? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, like I said, the $2,000 is probably at the extreme end of selling it at the most that I can. I bought it for $3,000. It's a 2004 Ford Expedition. Yeah, the gas struggle is real.

A V8, that's a lot of money. You're having a hard time keeping the hood down or you can't keep the hood down. How do you keep the hood down? Duct tape? What are you doing? Well, it won't stay up. The hinges that hold the hood up and I sometimes have to go into a lot of this.

It's having alternator issues that I need The hinges that hold the hood up, and I sometimes have to go into a lock that's D-A-R. It's having alternator issues that I need to replace. I have sometimes to start it with a dump starter. And so I usually just use like a broken piece of broom to keep it up. Let me tell you something. The alternator is about to die. And at some point, you'll get to a point where you can no longer get it going. So this is a legit emergency because I'm guessing you need the transportation to do your work, correct?

Yeah, I go to work in the morning until 3.30, and then I go to school from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. Yeah, well, Christina, if it's me, I'm going to get that emergency fund, Baby Step 1 funded through this, and I'm going to go get another car just so he can get back on his feet. Because you're telling me you paid off $130,000 using the Baby Steps. He did not? Bankruptcy the first time. Oh, I missed that. Okay, I was wondering how you got away, and you're like, I paid it off. Okay, never mind. So, dude, you've got to take care of you on this car, because this car is the key to you being able to do your job, right? Yeah. But if I'm in your shoes, I'm not taking the $4,000 refund and the $2,000 from selling the car and buying a $6,000 car. No, no, no. I would be careful walking onto the car lot and getting tempted to go up in price.

Like, I'd still be getting another Dave car. Like, just one that the hood stays down and that doesn't cost, you know, $200 to fill. What's the alternator going to cost to replace the alternator? So, the alternator is pretty cheap. It's only $130, and I could do it myself. But, you know, the car just has so many little things. Like, the windows won't roll down. And right now in California, it's cold, so it's not a problem. But during the heat, the windows won't roll down.

Okay, here's why I'm asking that. Because I'm saying I wonder if I could get two or three more months out of it. Because two or three more months would make a big difference in this process, would it not? It would. I'm going to try. I think I can definitely get that hey listen i'm jealous because i can barely put gas in the car i would love if i could change an alternator out trust me i'd do it and i put it on social media to brag about it okay but i i if it's me i'm going to hustle and grit my way

through this and i'm going to change the alternator. I'm going to nurse this car for two, three more months and then stack up the money. That's Christina. That's what I'm doing. I'm going to keep this baby alive. I like that. I don't think you got a shot in the world of getting two grand for this car. And that's why I'm saying that. So at this point, we're going to nurse it until we take it to the graveyard. That's what I think. That's good. Yeah, make it last as long as you can. Because walk that out for him financially. If he gets two or three more months out of this, how does that play out?

Well, how much are you making a month? How much are you able to put towards debt? Once you're in this journey fully, what's your income? So I make $27 an hour, which is roughly about $56 a year. Fantastic. Per paycheck, I'm getting about $1,600 to $1,700 a month. And I'm lucky enough that I still, I rent a room for my mom's house. So I'm only paying $500.

I've rent out here in California, that's like nothing. So I'm pretty fortunate in that sense. So how much can you throw out of debt per month? I'd throw in a bit, like $2,500 a month. There we go. So we're looking if you can make it another two months. That's $5,000? Yeah.

It just helps with that refund and getting a head start on the debt snowball. Yeah. I'd nurse that car for a couple, two, three more months, as long as possible, and walk the baby steps out in the meantime. And I just want to encourage you, too. If you drive around Ramsey, our building, we have people who are walking out the baby steps and we have some hoopties in this parking lot. We've got some things that are duct taped together that are you've got zip ties like we've got some real special cars out there because people are

motivated and they're getting it and they're trying to do the same thing. They're like, hey, if I can go two to three more months, then that's five thousand dollars that I can put towards nobody cares what you're driving if you're embarrassed by it I get it just park around the corner and walk tell somebody you ubered I don't care I'm okay with a white lie on that one I don't care uh you know I mean it just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things I remember picking Stacy up for our first date Christina in a Mazda 626 this was was in 97. It was an 82. And it was such a piece of crap that I could pull the key out of the ignition while I was driving as a trick and just showed people, including her. Oh, it was bad. I like 350,000 miles. It's a

miracle that she married me. She's just, she's just a beautiful, amazing woman with horrible judgment. But the point is, it just doesn't matter. The car is, if it gets me to A to B, who cares if it smokes a little bit, lurches a little bit, and it's a little sweaty? Power through it. It's going to be okay. Hey, Host Sway, thank you so much for calling. You got this, young man. You can knock out this debt in no time flat, and it's going to be the best decision you've ever made. Thank you so much for joining us here on the program. Thank you, America. Don't move.

More Ramsey Show coming right up. Welcome back, America. This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, in your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm joined by my colleague, Christina Ellis. We're Ramsey Personalities. Glad to be with you today. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225 is the number. Okay, today's question of the day comes from Shane from the Ramsey Baby Steps community. Oh boy, Christina. Now this is intense. Should I give up my apartment to live in my car and use gyms to shower and use the gym bathroom to save enough money to buy a house cash? Whoa. Now there's gazelle intense and then I don't know what this is.

This is beyond the gazelle. This is there's gazelle intents and then i don't know what this is this this is beyond the gazelle this is beyond the gazelle and this isn't even we're not talking baby step two gazelle intents this is paying off the house i'm gonna live in my car and i'm gonna use the gym in the bathroom i mean excuse me the shower in the bathroom at the gym to make it pie that that's a lot to process what say you what say you only a dude would ask that question by the way i would say absolutely not yeah i agree i i think it's great the motivation to pay off the house we've had some really motivated people calling today wanting to pay off houses which i love that i don't want to put any water on that fire at all but i do feel in that scenario that's just a little bit too far

yeah i think so it's not first of all i don't feel like it's very safe no matter where you live like like franklin tennessee is like disney world okay what walt disney tried to do on main street we have that for real yep it's a low crime area okay just being real it's wealthy but i wouldn't tell anybody to sleep in their car in the safest community in america whatever that is wherever that is well and my husband's retired police he was a police officer for 17 years detective did all sorts of roles and he's in the lobby today would you recommend anybody he's saying no he's shaking his head i've heard way too many stories and way too many crazy things that have happened in safe areas supposedly safe areas so and just even beyond that like we want people to

be gazelle intense and baby step to you but when you're in four through six we're wanting you to be intentional and there's just a lot of ripple effects even just to your ego to your well-being to being able to have people over to just different things when you live in your car and you're technically homeless like that's just that's just not where we want you to be we want you to be intentional now on the flip side of that if you want to find a really cheap way to live that's great yeah i am all about like seven or eight roommates sure uh but that's extreme too but let's not live in our car plus you'll stink plus you'll stink you know what i mean let's just be honest that's just nobody needs to experience that so there you go appreciate the question

there uh there's a much better way to do that okay um this is fun christina i've got a cnbc article in my hands and the headline reads the 10 worst paying college majors five years after graduation okay so this data comes from the new york federal reserve and what they did is they studied uh majors uh for for people right out of college their first five years and so this is pretty fascinating stuff all right and i want you to comment away here all right because this is this is near and dear to our hearts yes uh because i don't want you choosing an education that you can't use or that you shouldn't use all right and she wants to make sure that you pay cash for it and we don't go into debt so here we go

um let me make sure i got this right. Yep. Number one, worst pain major, theology and religion. Now, let me just tell you something. I'm going to do a little commenting here. $36,000 is the median. Now, these are medians, all right? So it's not the average. It's just taking the high, the low, right in the middle. So there we go. Median, 36,000. Now, let me tell you why this is crazy. Even in religious sectors, this is like a bait and switch, Christina, because they'll say, all right, you got to have a master's of divinity or maybe a doctorate if you want to kind of go higher levels and teach theology. Now, if you want to be a pastor, you don't have to have a Master's of Divinity. You really don't. And you could probably get in

a lot of church staffs just with a basic degree and go in and start as a youth pastor. But you're going to work that hard, that long, in a four-year degree, and you're come out and make 36,000. Well, Ken, we took a call a few months ago from a guy who had $150,000 in student loan debt and he was a pastor. Yeah. Good luck. And he had, he literally called us and his baby was about to go in labor or his wife was about to go in labor. She, it was just, man, it was devastating because it was like, that was not a good choice. We love that you're a pastor. That is amazing. Yeah. But that's a lot of debt for a career that doesn't pay a lot. So it's be smart about it. There are still schools that cost $60,000 a year that have pastor programs.

That might not be the smartest choice. There's a more affordable way about getting to that destination. That's exactly right. Next, social services, $37,000. And again, you go to school and you come out and you're going to get this job in a local government or a nonprofit setting, and you're very limited. Your financial growth just with the four-year degree on social services is right there. There's not much room for growth. Moving on, family and consumer sciences, that's in that same social services area.

This is interesting, Christina, psychology, 37.4. Because with a psychology degree, that's like being a doctor and a lawyer. That's just getting you started. You're going to have to go get that master's degree and maybe even the doctorate. And this is why it's so important to work through the ROI equation. I think when people get a psychology degree, they think they're going to graduate making psychiatrist money. And that's not what the four-year version leads to. So think through what those prospects are. All right. Now, here's my favorite. And I have a personal story here, Christina,

that you don't know. Yeah, it's very exciting. Probably not. Leisure and hospitality degree, a whopping $38,000 in your first five years. Now, leisure and hospitality, okay, so that's your hotel, your resorts, that kind of stuff. All right, so in college, one summer, I went back to Hampton Roads, Virginia, where I'm from, and I worked at the Norfolk Hilton, and I had two jobs. I did room service on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. I made some good money, by the way, because it's automatic 15% gratuity, and a lot of people are on business trips, so they're just tipping you extra. Had to wear the little tux shirt and tie, though.

There you go. And I got the tray, the whole nine yards. And then I managed a restaurant in the hotel on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Now, when the summer was over, my manager and the hotel general manager sat me down and said, is there any way we can talk you out of going back to school? We'd actually like to get you on a track for being a manager and move into an executive role with the hotel and all that. I mean, they're asking me this at 21.

Now, here's my point. If you want to get into leisure and hospitality, can I just say you'd be better off going and getting yourself a good job for a nice chain or a really nice resort and start at the bottom, do a good job and work your way up, and you can work yourself into management, a six-figure job, and never have to darken the door of a college. Now, what say you on that? Versus go for four years, bust your butt to make $38,000. That's good. I think that's good advice, but it also still comes down to you. People often will go to college, and they think that the college degree is the automatic success factor.

That's right. And it's like, that's not what's going to make you successful. The reason they wanted you to stay was because you were a hustler. I did a good job. You had aptitude for it. You were doing a good job. So I think it just, it proves that. But I love your example, too, because it's like, maybe you could go work for a chain that has tuition assistance.

So you could start working. You can get your feet wet. You can grow your experience. So you could start working, you can get your feet wet, you can grow your experience, and you can get your degree while you're on that track. That's really good. Rounding out the top 10, Performing Arts, 39,000, Early Childhood Education, 40, Elementary Education, 40, Special Education, 40, and then Miscellaneous Education.

Now, in contrast, the highest-paying majors are all in STEM fields, right, an acronym for Science, Technology, engineering, and math. The 10 best majors five years after college are mostly subsets of engineering. So think chemical engineering, you know, all the different engineering tributaries, if you will. And so please be aware that these are the real numbers. It's not Christina's opinion or my opinion. These are the numbers and the numbers don't lie. And yet you've been told that that degree is going to make you super successful. And Christina's right. You are the X factor when

it comes to that. So be very informed and very wise about these decisions because sometimes these financial decisions can affect you for decades, and we don't want to see that. She's Christina Ellis. I'm Ken Coleman. Don't move. A couple of commercials, and we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back, America. You are joining the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. Paying off debt is smart. Saving and investing is smart. But there's one key to winning with money that people overlook all the time, and that's protection. Protecting your finances from emergencies. And that's where insurance comes into play. Now, there are 10 kinds of insurance coverage you might need based on what your life looks like today, and we've built a tool called Coverage Checkup. And this will show you which types of insurance you need to add, drop, or adjust.

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Don't let an emergency sneak up on you. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. Christina Ellis is my colleague, and she joins me in studio this hour. Let's go to Des Moines, Iowa. Gordon is there. Gordon, how can we help? Hi.

How are you, sir? Well, I've been sitting here, not literally, but mentally sweating bullets waiting to be able to talk to you. Well, you're going to do great. We're here to help. What's going on today? It's just friends sitting in a living room. That's right. Yep.

Well, I don't know. I just kind of want to give you a little bit of my story and see what you have in mind. I'm 26, been married two years. We just had a little boy. Congrats. Five days ago. I never thought I'd get to say this, but I'm a very proud father. You should be. What an exciting time. And you're also tired as well, so we get it. I am a little tired. Yeah, we've been there.

Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to figure out right now, we're going through FPU and we're trying to nail up the budget okay um my question for you ken especially is i i don't really know what it means to what a career means for me um i don't know what what i want to do with the rest of my life yeah that's that's the bigger issue. You're not sure what that thing is, that work that you would love to get up for on a Monday morning

and get after it all week, right? Or do you? I have some ideas. Give me the top couple of ideas that you find yourself wondering about. Well, I do like working with people. Gordon, let me help you out because I've done this a lot. I've talked to over 5,000 people on the Ken Coleman Show on this very thing, and I've heard you before. You just had a different name, and you were from a different place. You cannot think your way through these answers. I don't care how it sounds. It doesn't have to be impressive. I just want you

to share your heart because I'm telling you, you got some ideas and you're struggling with a lack of confidence. And the answer to that is to get you clear. And I can do it if you just rip the answers. No more thinking. Now, give me the top two or three ideas that you wonder about and you've been wondering about go i i do like working with people i like creating and working with my hands okay um i like to teach i've i've been building over the last several years i've i've either worked the scout camp teaching boy scouts um i've built steel grain bins i'm i'm currently a welder um good what do you like about welding um um don't think i don't think it's it's creation yes it's i i like assembly i like taking all the pieces and putting them together. Tell me about the people part.

I know that you're creative and you like to create with your hands. That's very, very clear, by the way. And that's great. But the people part. I specifically like teaching people. I taught swimming. I taught Boy Scouts how to swim and how to canoe. And I got to the point where I felt really good with it.

And I was always trying new things. And then I got to teach these boys the basics. Great. And a little more. What if, Gordon, what if I told you that your career could include creating with your hands and teaching other people to create with their hands? What if it's not an either or? And I think that may be what you're wrestling with.

Is that right or wrong? I don't mind if I'm wrong, but tell me. Am I right? I absolutely agree. I'd love to mix things together, too. Can I give you? I haven't been able to brainstorm what that might look like. Oh, this is exciting.

Gordon, the reason you haven't listen gordon the reason you haven't been able to brainstorm is because you're so full of self-doubt because you'll get an idea and no sooner does the idea come out of your head actually come out of your heart and your brain then starts to go well i don't know if i could do that does that sound about right that sounds about right yeah gordon I'm going to suggest to you that your head and heart have a wrestling match maybe on an hourly basis. And so what we've got to do is

we've got to, it's true he said, we've got to listen to the heart. So the heart says, I want to do both. I want to create with my hands. So welding is a form of that. You are not limited to welding, are you, Gordon? No.

But it is, in fact, a way of creating with your hands. But then there's this instructor inside of you that just loves illuminating and encouraging, guiding people. Isn't that true, Gordon? Yes, sir. So here's one brainstorm idea. You're a qualified welder. You could potentially pick up a side job teaching at a welding trade school. True or false?

I am not certified, but yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I didn't say you could doubt with me on the phone, Gordon. I'm going to ask the question again. Gordon, is it possible in this world for you to get to a point with your certification that you could teach welding on the side or maybe even eventually go full-time if it was a better gig than your current welding position? Is that true or false, Gordon? Yes, sir. It's true. That's just one idea. How else do you like working with your hands? Or may I ask, where are you good in working with your hands? Wood, construction? Give me a couple other examples where you're really good with your just about everything i've tried exactly well so what so so gordon so well okay gordon what is if

i could pay you the desired amount of money that you want to make but you had to pick just one thing and you don't have to do this in real life but in fantasy land right now we're getting to the core of your heart and you get to only pick one thing, one job, you're going to get paid very well, you're going to be very good at it, you're going to work with people, and you get to train on it as well as an add-on. What would be that working with your hands type work that you would just get excited about every morning and lose track of time? Say it. Don't think. Metal working. Great great blacksmithing great so you're in that lane

with welding and metalworking that's all so here's the deal let's go get certified let's make some more money as a welder let's look for an opportunity to teach it in a local trade school even if it's one night a week here's why gordon what's going to happen is is for the first time in your professional life and my goodness you're only 26 you're like a child compared to me What's going to happen is, is for the first time in your professional life, and my goodness, you're only 26. You're like a child compared to me. You're going to experience true love at work because you're going to go, I get to build and create, and then I get to instruct and relate. That's your jam, right?

Yeah. All right, then. So are you waiting for permission? Because you came up with all these ideas. I didn't. I guess what I'm hoping for is, yeah, permission validation, but a clear path forward. Okay. Here's the clear path. All right. I'm going to give you the clear path. I'm going to give you my book, From Paycheck to Purpose, as my gift. It's actually the seven stages. But we got you clear right now.

Now it's about getting qualified. You just said, I've got to be certified to get the next level of welding going. So we're going to get qualified. We're going to get connected with opportunities to teach and do this welding work or iron work or anything else that we talked about today. Hang on. We're going to give you the book, From Paycheck to Purpose. Gordon, you're going to do it, buddy. Congratulations on being a new daddy. Get some sleep. Christina Ellis, great hour. James Childs and the crew, thank you guys for keeping us on the air. And

you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Christina Ellis. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation.

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