The Ramsey Show - App - How to Break the Psychological Cycle of Debt in Your Life (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan, filling in for Dave, and co-hosting with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney. And I'm going to tell you what, we're wide awake and ready for your questions. Bring them on. Bring them. If you've got relationship situations and you go, you know what, this has been going on a while and it's time for it to get fixed. Or maybe being in proximity.

COVID-19 has helped you to kind of see where, boy, we have some issues. Or I've got some issues with some in-laws. Or I don't know what it is. But listen, I've got a man in here that can help you. Just give us a call. 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. And if you've got a money question, we can dive into that thing and talk about how to

blaze your way to your future so you can become an everyday millionaire. If you've got a question about the baby steps relationships retirement i know a guy chris hogan we can talk chris hogan we can help he's here to help all right listen so we're going to dive off into the cause dr loni i'm going to tell you this guy's ready and he's not scared to dive into the hard stuff whether you're dealing with anxiety, stress, and relationships. And so guess what? Coming right off the gate, we're going to James. James is in Dallas, Texas.

James, what's on your mind, and how can Dr. D and I help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. You're welcome, buddy. What's on your mind, man? So I got a question. I'm just wondering the best way that I can kind of help walk through a situation with my fiance and her mom right now. So whenever she was young, her mom had some issues with drug abuse. So she was, you know, in and out of jail. So we haven't had a relationship for the past 10 or 12, 13 years. So, but here about two weeks ago, her mom reached out to her on Facebook and she wants to, she wants to meet up basically. And as of right now, you know, I've talked through this with my fiance.

She doesn't really want a relationship with her. But before that's done, I just wanted to kind of get some, maybe some insight on, is that the right thing to do? Or, you know, this is something I'm not familiar with. Wow. You know what? James, you must care about your fiance. Yeah.

How long have you all been dating? I've been dating about a year and a half. Okay, that's pretty strong. Now, how old is your fiance? 23. Okay, and so she hasn't had a relationship with her mom in 10 or 12 years? Right. Okay.

Oh, all right, Dr. Deloney. I mean, mom reaches out of nowhere. Right. Okay. Oh, all right, Dr. Deloney. I mean, mom reaches out of nowhere. Right. And you know what, James and Chris, both of you, this is happening all over the country. There's some conversations about there's no such thing as a closed adoption anymore. 23andMe, those kind of genetics have blown the lid on family secrets all over the country, right? And moms circling back and being able to track down their kids that they shifted and changed.

So, James, to answer your question, brother, there's not a right way to do this. And so I don't want you, I don't want your fiance to think there is a thing you have to do in this moment other than protect yourself and be honest with yourself. And so whenever somebody asks me about reconnection about connecting with a parent that um you know disappeared that divorced my mom suddenly and i never heard of him and now all of a sudden he's emailing me or facebooking me or ig and me whatever um the three things i want to ask is if i'm considering reconciliation or not, is why do I want to meet with them? Am I just curious? Do I just want to know? Or do I want to have that conversation

that I've been replaying in my head over and over? I'm going to let them have it, which I'm going to tell you is an utter, complete waste of time. You won't feel better. They're not going to feel any more ashamed than they already do, right? The second thing is make sure you kill the fantasy. Somebody pops back in your life after 20 years, you don't get all those Thanksgiving's back.

You don't get the Christmas vacations back. And so James, I would sit down with my wife or my soon to be wife and let her know. Um, if you do want to have this conversation, um, you're not going to, you're going to, you're going to be starting as two adults who don't know each other going this way, not reclaiming all the past stuff. And then the third thing is, like I started this with, if she doesn't want to talk to mom, she doesn't have to talk to mom.

She doesn't need to feel any guilt about that because that woman gave birth to her but has not been mama. And I don't want to blame her. It sounds like she had some addiction issues. It sounds like she had her own traumas to deal with. My guess is that mom did the best she could with the tools she had, but she gave up the right to be mama. She chose not to live that life, or her addiction dragged her down a hole that made it impossible for her to be there.

I'm not going to judge mom back then. I'm going to take care of my 23-year-old self right now. You know what you said something that it struck a nerve which is kill the fantasy now that i don't want to skip by that because a lot of people all of us if you're alive and breathing create the fantasy of the best case scenario i'm gonna have this this conversation that i've been waiting i'm gonna let you have it there's gonna music's gonna swell right my my mom or a strange dad's gonna get tear in their eyes we're gonna hug and all's right and then all of a sudden we're gonna just snap our fingers and we're gonna be in our our long pajamas around a christmas tree opening presents

with the grandkids that's not how that's gonna play mom's probably gonna come out and say hey i need to borrow a hundred dollars or mom may come out and say, Hey, I need to borrow a hundred dollars. Or mom may come out and say, you're beautiful. I want you to know what you did to me. Right? That's how that plays out. Wow. Or mom comes out and says, you know what? I screwed up. I'm trying to rebuild my life. One Lego brick at a time. And I want back in your life. I want to know my daughter. You're a beautiful woman. You're about to be married. I want to be a part of whatever's next. And then that's when the 23 year old James's fiance, she is an adult. She gets to decide. She makes the boundaries. She makes the rules. You meet on my terms at my restaurant. I pay for my meal. You pay for your

meal. I don't give you money. I get to decide if we're going to move forward. I am pro-reconciliation. I'm big on forgiveness. I'm big on reconciliation. But I'm also real big on being safe and not getting bit by the same rattlesnake twice. Now, you know what? And I had a friend whose mom had been out of his life for many years and caught up. They met at a neutral site. And lo and behold, it was within two weeks it was a money request.

That's right. You know, which broke his heart. So kill the fantasy. And so killing the fantasy. That's why I said that struck a nerve with me. site and lo and behold it was within two weeks it was a money request that's right you know it broke his heart so kill the fantasy and so killing the fantasy that's why i said that struck a nerve with me because in our minds we do want it to go right yeah we've watched the movie we've seen them you know what and movies i'm gonna tell you something i've been wanting to talk about this a while movies are frustrating and irritating because they take an insurmountable issue and put a bow on it in 60 minutes that's right and we somehow in our minds feel like it should happen fast for us in real life and it's not reality it's not reality and what is reality is that james fiance

has been asking herself both consciously and her body vander kolk's book by the name The Body Keeps the Score. Her body has been asking for 23 years, where's my mom? Where's my mom? What did I do to separate myself from my mom? And so when that Facebook comes, it's tempting to jump right back into that. Well, I would ask this. What advice do you give James? As a fiancé, he's not a husband. He's a fiancé.

Year and a half. I'm going to generalize James because he's a Texas male. Texas men want to jump in and solve the problem. You know what you need to do, honey? This, this, this, and this. James, don't do it. Be quiet. Hold your fiance's hands. Look her in the eye

and say, I love you. This sucks. And I will support you wherever you want to go. That's some sound advice right there, people. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and I make sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much, and the cheap knockoffs are ugly, and they don't really protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays

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Give us a call. We will try to help you guide through, walk through, and understand the path to get to where you want to go. And so that number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. We'd love to take your question. All right, we're going back to the phone. And, oh, Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, I know exactly where this is. We've got Marie on the line.

Marie, what is on your mind? Yes. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. It's a pleasure to speak to both of you. Well, thank you, ma'am. You're welcome. I listen every day. I have a relationship problem that I'm trying to break up with seven credit cards. And I recently paid off, so I have no credit card debt. Good. And I just got off the phone with City Cards to close the account. Okay.

And the lady's like, are you sure you want to close? I've been with them for 18 plus years. Wow. Marie, they're not your friends. They're not your friends. And then I'm like, oh my God. I said, I have to sleep on it. Okay, Marie, listen, listen.

If you had cancer for 18 years and you went into the doctor and they said, I can solve this today, would you say, let me sleep on it? I've gotten to really love this giant tumor that i carry around with me that's poisoning my heart and my life and my relationships no so hard marie i have to know after 18 years of being in the i am that debt score credit card gang fan club what caused you to get serious about paying them off? Well, I recently lost a house. Then I was renting, and then that property was sold, so I had to move again. And my credit was awful, so I couldn't get a mortgage. So I took money out of my IRA, which I just got done paying the IRS income tax on that money. So I bought the house cash.

My car is paid for. So, Marie, this is me being serious, what's the fear? What are you scared of? I guess the fear is, you know, old habits, I guess. No, no, no, it's not old habits. What's the fear? Needing. There you go.

Needing the card, yeah. Do you have an emergency fund? Maybe needing. I only have $1 thousand dollars right now okay um i'm out of debt except for a personal loan for seven thousand which i plan to pay off by what's your income march april i'm retired so i get a pension Social Security, which is $2,740 a month. Okay. So you've got a paid-off house.

You've got a paid-off house. I paid off, including the IRS, since February up until, what, July 15th, I had to pay my taxes, $10,601. Okay. Well, listen. Between the IRS and credit cards. I'm proud of you. And now I have seven cards to close. Right.

And you're going to have to, listen, you're going to have to stand your ground. Okay, Marina, I don't know if in your history, were you ever married at all? Twice. Okay. Did you date a lot too yes did you ever date anybody that was crazy yes do you remember now hold on a minute do you remember trying to break up with them okay you remember that it wasn't easy right because they would keep coming wouldn't they yeah yeah it wasn't easy.

It was very difficult. I'm telling you this because you trying to close out these credit cards is like you trying to get away from crazy. But here's the deal. You don't just tiptoe away from crazy. You run. And I mean all-out track shoe, down low, running in the wind, okay? You get away from it. And that's exactly what you're going to have to do with these credit cards.

They're going to offer you to drop the interest rate. They're going to act like they're your best friend, like they'd give you a kidney if you needed it. You and I both know it's a lie. Listen to me. Keep the clarity of mind open. Shut them down. Get it out of your life.

It's paid off. You have a home outright. You've put yourself on a path for different. Psychologically, you're going to have to get ready. It is scary because you've never done it before, but it can also be awesome. You don't know. You've never done it before. Trust us.

You going on this path, you're not going to regret it. And I'm going to tell you, you close out the credit card, you move forward. If two years down the road, your life just is incomplete because you don't have it, then go get another one. It's the wrong daggone move to take. I almost said a different word. I'm glad I didn't. But you don't need to.

So, Chris, let me ask you this. This is a baby steps question. You're going to learn me because you're a math guy. I've got a paid-off house. I've got no debts. In February, on a fixed income, I've still managed to pay off 10 grand. I've got these seven empty cards out there. I've fallen in love with them.

They're beautiful. I love them in my life. They feel good in my wallet. But I only have a $1,000 emergency fund. Do you want somebody getting that three months before they cut all these up? Or do you want someone getting six months before you cut all these up? I want you. You've paid them off,

cut them up, close them down, and get them out of your life. You have the $1,000 there. So that means if something were to happen, and this is where people will take me, John. Well, Chris, you know, what if I need a car repair? You have the $1,000. See, what we're trying to do is to break the debt cycle.

It's a psychological cycle and a grip as well as this emotional tie. And a lady told me once, she goes, Chris, I've been a member of American Express since 87. And I go, what did it get you? She goes, what do you mean? I go, well, it says it on the card. She goes, I know, but I belong. I said, to them.

Oh, and she looked at me and her little lip got quivering because she had identified with that, that That's right. Oh, and she looked at me and her little lip got quivering, right? Because she had identified with that, that that was her. That's not you. Chris, I've never even thought about what a deviant psychological move to call you a member. Oh, a member, like you belong to the what? I Love Debt Club?

The Brotherhood of Visa. Yeah, I mean, it's just, and so helping people shift their mindset on that, you shut them things down, get it out of your life. You know, Marie, what you've done is with the home outright, I want you to build up the emergency fund, then begin to invest, be aware. Just don't go backwards, honey. I mean, that's the thing. It's this time and age where people are at home. We're one or two clicks away from boxes showing up and overspending and busting your budget. So just remain clear and calm.

You can get there. John, from a psychological standpoint of helping people to do something they've never done before, right? What have you found? I know you've worked with people, police officers. I mean, you know, all kinds of situations. But psychologically, what do we have to do for ourselves in order to make change happen? I think we have to, A, say, I'm done with this. You've got to have a commitment.

Yeah. Number two, you've got to have a place. You've got to have a picture of where you're headed. Ooh. You've got, it's got to be clear. Not just, I want to make more money. Right. Not just, I need a better job.

What does that look like? And most people cannot answer this question. What do you want? What do you want? Like, well, you know, no, no, no, question. What do you want? What do you want? Like, well, you know, no, no, no, no. What do you want? I want more money. What do you want?

And most people don't even have a psychology for what peace feels like. What not being owned feels like. What not being indebted to somebody feels like. What being joyful feels like. And so the third thing is you've got to have somebody with you. You've got to have a community to walk with you because doing new things hard means you're going to stumble a lot. You're going to fall down, and it just is easy to lay there sometimes.

And you've got to have somebody to pick you up. You've got to have somebody text you in the morning. You've got to have somebody that's going to call you. You've got to say, no more. Here's what this is going to look like, and I've got to get somebody to walk with me, or two people, or five people, or ten people. I've been married a long time.

I've been with the same woman for even longer. And I've got to have a marriage counselor every once in a while. I've got to have somebody that I know is going to ask me about my marriage. I've got to have several people that are going to ask me how I'm being as a husband. And they're going to kick my butt when I screw up, and they're going to pick my butt up when I fall down, and they're going to cheer me on when I do well. Yeah, no, that's right.

That's the men's group I've got. We get in there and we talk about emotions and the feelings. Uh-oh. Yeah, dude, but just getting real because you look at this and you realize I'm feeling them and I got them. So what are they doing? They're either running me or I'm running them, right? I get a chance to make a choice.

I'm grown and I choose better. That's a decision I'm making every day. All people stay with us. We're having fun. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs, whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up.

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That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Hello, everyone. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney. And we've been taking your calls on relationships, on money, on life, all the things that you have going on. But listen, I want to get real with you for a second. Some of you are getting close to baby step number four, and maybe you're freaking out.

Because you realize, man, I've got to get to investing 15% of my income for retirement, and I have no idea about how to begin to do it. And it's okay to have a bunch of questions when you first get started. Everyone does. The trick is to work to do it. And it's okay to have a bunch of questions when you first get started. Everyone does. The trick is to work with a professional. When you work with someone that knows what they're doing, they can instill confidence in you and to help for you to see the path you're on. So a smart investor pro can answer those questions

in plain English, not talk at you, but have a conversation with you where you start to see and understand things on a whole nother level. Because when you're investing, you need to know what it is you're investing in. You need to be clear. So you need a smart investor pro to help you understand easily to see it. We call that a good teacher. So never again sit around freaking out about the future.

Never again should you wonder if you're going to retire with a million dollars or building great wealth. Do something about it. So what I want you to do is to go to DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor. That's DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor and get started building wealth today. These are people that are professionals. They care about you and your future. They will walk with you through this process. Okay, so we're taking calls. We've had a really good balance. We've got calls of people with life situations. We've got people calling with money situations, sometimes with both. And that's okay.

We just want you to know you're not by yourself. So give us a call. We're here. I have properly caffeinated Deloney. So he is awake. I'm jittery. I know. Too much sweet tea.

Too much. He's from Texas. He can't handle it. But anyway, we're going to pray for him and do what we've got to do. But here's the group. Get back to the phone lines. We've got Mitchell on the line. Mitchell, how can we help you?

Yes, thank you for taking my call, Chris and Dr. D. My question is, I'm working through the baby steps on baby step number two, and all I have left after the car has been paid and credit cards is student loans. Okay. So I have about $67,000 left in student loan debt, and I decided to pick up a second job to help me pay that off. Okay. That is with a food delivery service that counts you as a 1099.

So my question is, do I want to focus in on putting money aside for taxes, or do I want to use as much income with that second job to pay off the student loan debt and maybe tackle the taxes come next spring? Okay, buddy, this is a very good question, Mitchell. And you've got $67,000 in student loan debt. And then any other debt outside of it? No. Okay.

About how much are you making right now in this side gig? Well, I've only been doing it for two weeks now, and it's averaged about $450 per week. Okay. All right. So $450 a week. Here's what I would tell you to do. I'm going to advise you to set aside taxes right now.

Okay? Meaning I would look at 25%, and that could be a little high, but do 25% from each paycheck, set it aside over in a savings account. All right? And I would just do that every week. So then at the end of the year when you are filing, if you do owe on that, because there will be some owing, obviously you're making income, but you've set aside that money.

And if you follow that 25% rule, I don't care if you get to make in $2,000 a week or $2,000 a month, that will make sure that you've got money set aside. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah, because what you don't want to do, and I love that you're willing to hustle, buddy. Oh, yeah. I really do. I'm just crushing it.

And I'm going to tell you this. The main thing is, is remember, as you are doing that, when you get paid, as soon as you get paid, go ahead and apply that to the debt. Like, don't let it sit in there. Because the money just sitting in your checking account, there's a name for it. It's called spent. It's called the boat. Yeah, it is. As soon as you deposit it, go ahead and do that.

But definitely set aside. You don't want to cause any kind of issues for you. And that would meaning be for your state because you're in Pennsylvania. And Lord knows they love state taxes there. I lived there for five years. So you've got to deal with the state as well as the federal side. Do me a favor. Go to DaveRamsey.com and click on the tax ELP.

I want you to go ahead and get connected with one of our endorsed local providers there with taxes so you can just have a phone conversation with them. Be aware of what you need to set aside on the state side as well as the federal side. Either way, buddy, you are making progress toward attacking that student loan debt. Love it, man. Don't you've seen this. I mean, you worked in the college scene for how many years? Way, a lot, a lot of years, 15, 16, 17.

Okay. I mean, so, you know, this, the reality of this student debt thing, this student loan debt, this is real. It's ugly, ugly, ugly. It hurts. I mean, it hurts. I mean, it hurts. I mean, it's a lot. What is it? We've got $1.7 trillion in student loan debt. Just a couple trillion dollars. $1.7 trillion affecting around 53 million Americans. Yeah, that's what we call an epidemic, bud. That's an epidemic. It's a painful, painful process we're all working

through right now. It really is. All right, we're going to stay on the phone lines. We've got Marsha. Marsha, how can we help you? Hi, thanks for speaking with me today. We've just sold a larger home, and we will have a remaining balance of about $168,000 once our current home is paid off later this month. I'm trying to figure out, should we be investing more than the 15% to catch up on our retirement? And if so, what kind of percentage should we be doing? Okay, so you all downsized, got another house, paid for it for cash. Is this right?

Close to. When we close in two weeks, we'll be able to pay the remainder off in cash, yes. And you'll have $168,000 left. That's correct. All right, and how much do you all have saved toward retirement? Only about $255,000, $255,000. Okay, and how old are you all? I'm 58, he's 63, but we also have an annual pension of $86,000.

Okay, so you got a pension. So of this $168,000, as we look at this, what's your husband want to do with it? Well, he wants to build a shop and redo the kitchen and save some of it. But I'm kind of like being more conservative. I'd like to save at least $100,000 of it and then maybe do some of the things, but not all of them and not all of them at once. Yeah, well, I'm with you. I mean, as you look at it, you've got a them. I mean, not all of them at once. Yeah. Well, I'm with you. I mean, as you look at it, you got a house, you know, I'm going to be smart.

You got 168, you got 255. What I would do is you guys, what was your mortgage payment on the old house? On the old house, we owned that free and clear. Okay. So you didn't have a mortgage payment? No. Okay. So you got a pit?

We bought the new one. We had a mortgage payment on, but knowing we were selling this one, we were comfortable with that for a little bit. All right. So you have no mortgage. What I would say is let's sit down, get a list, make a priority list of what he wants to do, make a priority list of what you want to do, and I want you all to start to put some dollar amounts on that. And then what I want you to do is to rank the top two that you're going to start to save toward now and looking at this marcia 168 000 i don't have a problem with y'all doing 18 grand right either toward toward the item for this year does that make sense yeah yeah that's so you're doing one

of them i'd like your husband wanting to do the shop and the kitchen, that's a no. Okay? Yeah. That's just silly, right? So we've got to pick one, right? And I think I know which one you're going to go with. It's the one that's going to get used. I think I'm going to lose that one. You think you're going to lose?

Well, here's the thing. It's a win-win. Either you get a great new kitchen or his butt goes out to the shop. Either way, Marsha's winning this one. But, Marcia, seriously, I think that prioritization and starting to put dollar amounts to it, where you're saving towards something. You know, you got a new home, and typically people, Dr. D, will get into Walt-itis. Like, once they get a house, then they're going to get a vehicle.

Fire-dump-itis. Then they're going to get new furniture. And so, Marcia, I would just be clear. I think you all definitely do need to invest at least $150,000 of this. I think it's okay to use around $18,000. But you all could use that $18,000, set it aside, and then start to cash flow and say, hey, we're going to save $1,500 a month toward doing this thing. And you just make that a part of your budget. And they make $86,000 a year with no house payment.

That's right. So it's not going to take long to save up for some of these projects. That's exactly right. And what I want is it to matter. Right. Like if you save toward it, it'll matter. If you do it real quick and you throw up the shop and you do the kitchen, I assure you, in six months, you're going to have something else you want to get done.

Or you're going to wish, man, I wish after living here for seven months, I wish the shop was over here. I wish we'd put the ovens over here breathe a minute just get into the new house and get unpacked relax but marsh i appreciate you reaching out because what you're yeah you're trying to have a game plan ahead of time because you know your husband well better than i do hey he's lucky to have you marcia oh we gotta stay focused people are not finished. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. hello everybody welcome back to the dave ramsey show we are having a blast and i'm gonna tell you something if you're not on this phone line well that's your fault because we're here like deloney we're and i we're here ready to take your call that number to call is 888-825-5225.

Again, that's 888-825-5225. And don't forget to follow us on social media, please. Deloney and I have a contest of who's going to get the most people on Instagram. So follow me at ChrisHogan360. You can follow him at JohnDeloney. Right now he's outpacing me, people, so I need you to step it up. I'm not even. Let's be honest.

In the day. For the day. Oh, in the day, yeah. Yeah, just for the day. Every day, I just. I've had a few years jump start on you, buddy. I was going to wipe you up a little bit every day, but yeah. I've got a few years jump start on you, but it's all good.

My wife tells me I was born in the wrong century, so I'm new to all this. You are totally a dude from the 50s. Things were simpler back then. Yeah. They were wrong and a lot of evil, but they were simpler. I belong in the 70s. I think. Do you have long hair? A good mullet going? No, dude.

But I could wear them bell bottoms. I could. I could rock those. Alright, listen. If you're out there, call us. We're getting on the phone. We got Matt. Matt is on the line from Panama City, Florida. Matt, how can we help you? Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call.

I got a question about paying off collections when getting into step two. I've got my baby step one all taken care of, and I've got a little bit left to pay on my car loan. And then after that, the only thing I have is collecting from when I was young and impulsive and numb. Okay. So how many collection accounts do you think you have? I recently pulled all my credit reports to kind of get an idea of everything I have.

Okay. And I have a total of eight. There are two that are just medical bills from seven or eight years ago. There are three credit cards, and then there's a utility bill, and I ended up having to leave out of the apartment early, so there was a collections account for two months of rent for there. Okay, so here's the reality. I want you to attack the active current debts first, and then from there, you can start to attack these dormant debts, I'll call them. They're older. Now, what you're going to want to do is get a debt verification.

What that means is you want them to prove what it is you owe. That's going to require going back and looking at the old contract. That's the verifying, because you want to be crystal clear because what happens with this, Matt, is once an account charges off, i.e., no payment for six months or more, what happens is the company, the main company, wipes it off the books, but they sell it to a collection company. This collection company will buy it for pennies on the dollar, begin to reach out to you to try to do it. If they don't get anything, then they'll sell it. So it's a thing where it can move around three or four times, not with the original creditor. So you need debt verification on what it is.

You need to get it in writing, what it is that they're willing to accept if it's a settlement. And then that way you can write a check. I'd get a cashier's check where it's certified. It's clear. I'd send it with delivery confirmation. So you can know not only that they got it but who signed for it. And you're allowed to dig yourself and go forward from there.

So kudos to you for doing your legwork and doing the credit report pool so you can know what it is you're dealing with, buddy. That is definitely the way to go. I also want to kudos to Matt for this. It's easy to think, hey, old debts are in collections. Those guys are – and you start blaming the people that you borrowed the money from and matt is a guy of integrity that says no matter how old this is at one point i told these folks you give me this i'll pay you back that's right and your integrity is on the line your heart's on the line and good for you matt for digging up and doing right no

matter how long no matter how far time has passed, you're doing right. And I applaud you for it, brother. Yeah, I do too, buddy. And so just be clear, and it's going to require you having some patience with it and really digging in and following through. But keep records also. Once you get that cashier's check, please make a copy of it along with any letter or correspondence you get.

That way you've got it in file. And you can also then request that the credit report updates to make sure that they get it reported right, right? So once you pay it off, they've got around 30 days for it to update and to show paid in full as opposed to showing as a collat, which is C-O-L-L-A-C-T. That's what the collection accounts will show. Thank you for that. Next up, we got Sean. Sean out of Pittsburgh. Sean, how can John and I help you today? Thank you.

I just wanted to tell you guys both thank you very much. John, you released a video a couple days ago about writing a note to your parents, and I'll be doing that soon. So to start off, my mom passed away at the age of 48 on Friday. Brother Sean, I'm sorry, man. Hey, hold on, hold on. Friday. Brother Sean, I'm sorry, man. Hey, hold on, hold on. Stop for a second. I'm sorry, man.

Thank you. That's too soon. 48's too soon, brother, and I'm sorry. It sucks, man. What happened, Sean? Thank you. She's been battling. She had two open-heart surgeries in the past three years,

and some things with her medical health hasn't just been catching up it hasn't been you know coming back and yeah i think her birthday her birthday was on the 10th she got out of the hospital for her birthday and then the day after her birthday she looked back we're all able to have a funeral and celebrate her life uh that will be tomorrow. The celebration will be tomorrow. It'll be pretty fun and have a lot of family together. Yes. How many brothers and sisters do you have? In the immediate family, four, but about eight total.

Okay. Okay. Ooh, Sean. All right. It's a big family. And I thought some prayers are with you, brother. Yeah, without a doubt. Are you being tasked with handling all the details for this?

Correct. Okay. And I don't want to make any mistakes with this. I understand. She said she had a will. I cannot find the will. So I know she has a house. She has payments.

I don't know what the total amount is on the house that's owed. My sister has a family, which would kind of help. She would take that over if she would want to. But as far as the car, which is paid off and other things, I want to make sure everything gets done and delegated correctly between everybody, even with the house. But I just want to know how to go. Yeah.

So about keeping a path, you know. No, I know. I am the oldest. Now, John, here's what's going to have to happen, buddy. There's a lot. And what I'm going to do, Kelly's going to get your information. I'm going to get you connected with one of our financial coaches because there's a lot of details here.

First and foremost, you're going to want to get 10 certified copies of the death certificate, certified copies, which the hospital will be able to provide you. You're going to want to pull your mom's credit report so you can find out all the debts that are open. The mortgage payment, that statement gets mailed, so you're going to be able to get the mail and see exactly what's going on. But this financial coach is going to walk you through these things because that's what I've trained them to do, to be able to walk you through this process. There's a lot of details, a lot of I's to dot and a lot of T's to cross. We'll get to those. I think right now,

what you have to do is embrace the fact that your mom passed away. And I don't want you to run so quick into details that you forget to feel that your mom just passed away. That's right. And so we'll have a coach that will guide you, and this will be as a gift from me to you. They will meet with you and walk you through this process to help you all begin to get some things in place. This is not the time nor the place

to try to walk through all the minutia and those details because your mom just passed away. Right. And you need to have presence of mind to be there for your siblings and to celebrate. And I like that you said that because that's exactly what you got to do is you celebrate that life that has caused a lot of memories for you all. Yeah. Honor the next couple of days.

Do nothing. Enjoy it. Grieve it. Like you said, watch the YouTube clip, write your mom a letter. That's a beautiful moment. And feel it. And one thing I want to press on you as the older brother, you're going to feel a lot of weight.

Somebody's got to step up, and everyone's going to look to you. At some point in the next week or two, I want you to call a meeting with your brothers and sisters. And I want you to say effective immediately. There's no fighting. There's no backbiting. There's no nonsense. We're going to honor mom moving forward. I'm going to take the reins here and I'm going to call on each one of you for help as we get going forward. Nonsense stops. We're going to love each other. And, Sean, we're going to be praying for you, brother. That's fantastic. Listen, Scripture of the Day.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3.18. Today's quote, Vincent Van Gogh. Normality is a paved road. It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow. Listen, I want to thank all of you for taking the time to tune in.

I want to thank producer James Child, associate producer Kelly Daniel, and I want to thank all of you all for tuning in. And, John, thank you, buddy. This was fun. You did good today, Christopher. Well, you did pretty good as well. Thanks for letting me join you. Maybe don't let us do it again. This has been The Dave Ramsey Show.

This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows. Ask Dave money questions like, how do I invest my money? Or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at daveramsey.com slash smart speaker.