The Ramsey Show - App - How to Find a Thoroughbred in a Sea of Donkeys (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 26, 2020

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Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. It is a free call at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Brian is in Lake of the Ozarks. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Brian. Thank you, Dave, and I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay, so me and my wife are just starting the baby steps. I bought your book, The Total Money Makeover, and she doesn't want to use the credit cards anymore, she said,

but she's not comfortable canceling them until she sees that we can stick to our budget for a month or two. Is there anything that I can, any tip to reassure her on going ahead and canceling them, or what would you suggest? I would stick to my budget for a month or two. Okay. How long have you guys been married? We've been married about seven years. We have four kids and and um and and sometimes when i bring sharon a new idea she wonders if i'm gonna stick with it if i'm scheming and scamming

might that be the case at your house yes i've not been very good i've made a mistake and i've just you know given her all the money for the seven years and she's taking care of all the financial things but now i'm trying to get involved so now the two of you working together on a budget is a brand new experience and she wants to make sure that this is not a fad yes sir that's fair so you think i shouldn't i shouldn't push the issue to know we're going to cancel them all right now? I would say let's set a date that after three months of successfully working together and budgeting, where we tell every dollar on the EveryDollar app what to do before the month begins, and we do a very close semblance of sticking to that. The first three months you don't stick to it because what happens is the first month's lous lousy you're going to mess up second month's better by the third month you really do

get it nailed down but you're going to stay with it you're going to you know push it through and you know but but the agreement is when we do that for three months we're cutting these stupid things up and we're closing the accounts yes sir yeah i think if you make that agreement then you you know you stick to your budget. It's not unreasonable. Now, again, we're going to put them in the drawer. We're not going to touch them. They're not going to be used.

They're not part of your system anymore. Right? Yes. Okay. That's today. But the actual closing of the accounts permanently could be 90 days from today after you have had three successful budget cycles of the two of you working together. Semi-successful. Successful in the first 90 days is you actually still are doing it.

Yes. You're going to mess up in the first 90 days because you suck at it. You're brand new. Right? Yes, sir. Yeah, but I mean, as long as she gives you that kind of grace if she demands perfection for 90 days that's not reasonable but are we going to stick to it are we working a system where we both tell the money what to do then we don't then we stick to that contract

neither one of us spend money off of budget um because you know you might have a reputation of having spent some wild money in the past, and she wants to see if the real you is now changed. Absolutely. I have. I've definitely spent more than her, so I think that's her concern. Yeah, she just, you know, all of a sudden you're a dadgum money genius, and you were the one who used to mess everything up.

That's what's running through her head, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, so you've just got to earn everything up. That's what's running through her head, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, so you just got to earn the trust. That's all. And that's reasonable. That's a fair thing for her to do for 90 days. But the point is, at the end of the day, we're not using the cards anymore,

and after 90 days we're going to close them. And then you guys do stick to it, and let's see you make some progress and get some traction and start winning. You can do it, man. You can do it. I'm proud of you. Hey, thanks for calling in. Danielle is in Houston. Hi, Danielle.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm new to this, and I just started your book, and I have three questions for you. I have a very high debt-to-income ratio, so I projected to pay off my debt in seven to ten years.

So because of that, my three questions are, the first one is, should I continue to halt retirement savings, and should I continue to halt saving for a home? And then my last question is, should I consider staying in the government income-driven repayment? And I'm about three years in saying that in seven years I would have forgiveness. Yeah, I think no one has gotten forgiveness. 128 people have gotten forgiveness.

28,000 have applied for it. It's not a plan I'm going to count on. So what is your debt? Student loans. I know. How much? $192,000. For what? Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

A doctor of physical therapy. You're about PT. For $192,000? Yes. Like paid double, huh? Yeah. It was a private school, so it was very expensive. Yeah.

Kind of ridiculous. Okay. So what are you making 100 i'm making 70 and you have 192 and what other kind of debt have you got that's it i my car is paid for i don't use credit cards when did you graduate i've been using i graduated in april so i just recently got on your budget and following everything, and I did have credit card debt and all that stuff, and so I recently got on your plan and got all of that paid off.

What were you making before you graduated? Before I graduated? Mm-hmm. Oh, in school I wasn't making anything. Okay, so you're how old? I'm 28. Okay, so you were living off the student loans yes sir okay um okay so you're not used to having a seventy thousand dollar income for very long correct so let's put like all of that on the debt and live on beans and rice.

Seven to ten years is absurd. Okay. That's not okay. I was estimating about $3,000 a month, and I just got a second job. I actually just found out yesterday that I got it. Great. I'm going to try to do an extra ten hours a week. On doing PT?

I'm actually a certified personal trainer, too, and it's a very nice gym. So actually, crazy enough, I really get paid about the same as what I'm making now. Great. Maybe even a little bit more. So what are you going to pick up, another $20,000? I'm hoping to do another 10 hours a week, and I'm going to get paid anywhere from $30 to $35 an hour. So hopefully another like 1500 a month it was a goal about 20 grand okay yeah all right that's good okay so now we're at 90

and um if we put 50 towards it it's a four-year plan 50 being 50 000 out of 90 and you lived on 40. That's not bad at all. 200 divided by 50 is 4. Right. That gets you out of debt in four years. 50,000 a year. 4,000 bucks, 4,300 bucks a month, not 3,000 a month.

And I think you can do better than that. So I'm not going to put you on a seven-year plan. I refuse. I'm going to put you on a three-and-a-half-year plan, and you're going to work as many hours as you can possibly work, and you're going to clean up this huge mistake you made, not becoming a PT but paying double to become a PT. That was the mistake you made.

So now you've got to clean it up. That's okay. You've got a good career ahead of you. You're going to be great. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials

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That's GRIP6.com. Mike's in Lansing, Michigan. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, how are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Hey, real quick, just want to say thank you for everything that you do. You've changed my personal and the way that we run our business. But I've got a question for you. I own a lawn and a landscape company and a snow company up here in Michigan.

And, you know, I'm really having trouble. I've been doing this for about 11 years. I'm having trouble with the caliber employee that we, you know, typically see. And just how do we find a thoroughbred in a sea of donkeys, if you will? Yeah. Well, you have to create a couple of things that are different than all the other lawn care guys. You have to create a different environment. And why would someone want to work there? OK. And part of it's pay. It's just straight up. The more you pay, the better person you have a chance to get. You know, it's that simple.

But we were having a discussion when we did an Entree Leadership Theme Hour, Daniel Tardy and I were, he's the executive vice president of that area, with a guy on the air that had an ice cream shop. And we were thinking of places like Southwestern Books and Chick-fil-A, where what they do is they employ college students, and the reason a high-quality college student wants to do those work, or high school students want to do that work, is the environment that they're in.

They're being trained. It's almost as if that if you find someone that has sold books for Southwest, you have found someone that can survive in a sales job and prosper in a sales job. It's like a boot camp for selling. And so an example might be that if families of high character in the Lansing area knew Mike's landscaping business was a place that their son would work and would be taught how to be a man, a man of high character and a man of work, and the environment was clean in terms of the character cleanliness. Obviously, you get dirty mowing grass.

I'm not talking about that. We get real dirty, yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking about that. But I'm talking about it's not a bunch of filthy mouth, filthy stuff, filthy people doing filthy habits that their kid is running with. And if young men knew that they could come to work for you and be mentored on business principles and on character that would set them up to succeed later in life, you would have a constant turnover because as they grew up or go back to life, you would have a constant turnover because as they grew

up or go back to college, you lose them. But you'd have a constant feeder of every parent, not every parent, a lot of parents want their kid to work at Chick-fil-A. Not because they want to teach them to do chicken, but because of what they learn about life and customer service, and it's a clean and safe environment in terms of character and the way the young person is treated. And, you know, you meet some of the most sparkling, wonderful teenagers in the world when you walk into one of those places as a consequence. And so you create a brand differentiation rather than just uh we cut grass and we pay minimum wage you know we pay good but you're gonna have an experience here i mean we i don't you know i'm a person of faith and so if it were me doing it i'd be going hey we

have a bible study it's not mandatory but we have a Bible study on Wednesday mornings, you know, or Wednesday evenings when we finish up work or whatever. And, you know, there's not a bunch of drunkards working on this team and not a bunch of pot smokers working on this team. You know, we're going to be, these are men, young men of valor, young men of character. And that's who you get to run with, and you will become a better young man as a result of having worked here. That's how I would present it. And then reach out, and you'll get some older guys that want to stay with you forever and participate in that, and they want to be mentors to these younger guys.

Something like that. Or you could go a different way, but that's just an example of you build a cultural differentiator that makes you attractive not because of the exact work you're doing or the pay. Of course, the other thing you can do is you can say, hey, we pay X number of dollars and we pay bonuses on production and bonuses on profit or whatever. So we've done a performance bonus at 50 cents per hour for your pay period, you know, if we get good performance, and then also attendance bonus, so you have the ability to earn an extra dollar an hour on top of your base pay. That's great. But if I were doing it, it would be dependent upon their emotional position,

that they emotionally act like they own the place, which tells me how they cut the grass, how they interact with the owner, how they treat the equipment, you know, how they shop for the best price on fuel to go in the equipment, whatever. I mean, they're going to act like they own this place, and the more they do that, the more you can afford to pay them. Right. And the less hassle you got running the business.

But one of our core values on the wall is we are all self-employed. And it's typed on them. It's big old letters on the back wall of our meeting room you know and uh we remind our folks all the time you technically work on someone else's team but everyone in this world is self-employed you know but when you work for somebody else you just happen to have one client you know you know yeah but that's you just get that kind of vibe going, and then it's still a dogfight. To this day, one of our biggest things we spend time, money, and effort on is the finding of thoroughbreds. And we're in a white-collar, highly appealing situation.

So we have all these other advantages you know but it's still we have to get people in here that care uh that have talent and smarts and that care and that have character and that care you know it's just a lot of people just want to come to work and mail it in you know and so you know they end up they end up leaving this place because they don't fit in around here. So it's a constant thing. The human resource in a business is the most expensive line item on your P&L in almost every business. It's the thing you invest the most in. It's the thing that gives you the most return, that is the most rewarding emotionally, spiritually, and psychologically,

and is the most draining financially, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. It's the thing that makes me cry for joy the most often, and the thing that makes me cry tears of terror the most often. And it's the sweet and sour sauce of business, baby. It ain't for sissies. So I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, because you're not looking for a job, but you get your business and the people inside your business in the proximity and you get yourself in the proximity of these thoroughbreds

and that's how you find them. So I would use this book is about the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love it's about someone looking for a job but i think you could use these exact same principles turn them on their head and use them to look for people to hire and and i think it's something to think about so just a good discussion thanks for calling in with that we discuss this this kind of stuff, folks, all the time with small business people all over America. The whole Entrez Leadership brand, the all-access membership for Entrez Leadership, the

whole process of plugging in with them with the team there and coming to the events, but also the online coaching and online mastermind groups and everything else we've got with that. It's a constant thing. We coach small businesses because people like Mike right there, that's how America works. The guy calling a little bit earlier in the hour started with a $1,500 truck

and now did $15 million. Did you hear him? Yeah. I mean, those men and women like that, they're what make America great, man, as far as the economy goes. They are the backbone of the economy. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention.

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We're doing good. It's Larissa. You're in Larissa. Okay. In Alaska. In Alaska. Okay, cool. Very cool.

Good to have you guys. I see on my screen you are debt free. Congratulations. How much have you paid off? $94,000 in four years and ten months. Very good. And your range of income during that time? Starting at $30,000, going up to $50,000, and then going back down to $35,000.

Wow. What do you guys do for a living? I am currently a dental assistant and... I'm an illustrator. Right now I work freelance, but I had to work a day job during paying all this off. I work security mostly. Okay, cool. Good for you guys. Well done. So what kind of debt was this $94,000? It was all student loans. Very cool. Good for you guys. So how old are you two? I am 31.

Okay. And I'm 34. Okay. And so you spent almost five years paying off $94,000, so about $20,000 a year, while making $30,000 to $50,000 to $35,000. Yep, that's correct. So tell me your story. Did you start when you came out of school, or what lit your fuse on this? Well, it happened after we bought our house.

We were kind of doing bavish up until that point. And when we had our chimney cleaned, the guy's like, you really need to get your chimney replaced because you have single walls and it's about to go up in flames if you keep on using it. So we had to replace that as well as the actual stove itself. That's our main source of heat. The homeowner's expenses kind of overwhelmed us a little bit on what we were expecting to be paying. I guess. Yeah, so what you say is

true. If you buy a house when you're in debt, it's a curse, not a blessing. So we found that out. Anyways, we saved up for it and paid cash for that. And also in the process we went through like three vehicles. I think I showed you, I gave you some guys some pictures.

Because I was a road warrior before I became a dental assistant. And so transmissions went out on almost every car that I had. Oh, my gosh. Wow. So we had to push pause and start back up when those events happened. Very cool. Cool. How does it feel now that you did it, that you're debt-free?

It's absolutely wonderful, Jason. It feels amazing being free. Well, Jason is now able to work full-time as an illustrator, so that was really hard for him. He was putting off his career to have a day job. But you got the mess cleaned up, and then that gives you the freedom. That's a big deal. Yes, absolutely.

Very, very cool. Good. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? You did it. Budget and the communication um our communication has improved drastically because i it took him it took him a while to get on board but um communication how long did it take you to get on board jason um took me a couple of years i i wasn't really uh up for the getting rid of all spending on ourselves as far as fund money,

and we kind of came to a compromise over that one. Based on a percentage system, we gave ourselves a small percentage with a cap of $100. Yeah, because I just wanted to do absolute scorched earth, and he's like, we're not going to be able to make it if we don't give ourselves something okay so what got you on board after a couple of years what made you decide to that you were going to do this and beyond that i mean you went to work well i was sitting down looking at the numbers and kind of realized how quickly we could pay it off if we just kind of buckle down and cut everything extra from our expenses. And some, at least a thousand or so extra in cuts that we could make.

And we kind of pretty much did the rest from there. Gotcha. Okay. Well, well done, you two. Proud of you. Good job. Four years and ten months is a slog, man. You've been at this.

This is very cool. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. You're going to be one. You are on the track to do that. And things are going to happen in a way that you're not going to believe how the next decade unfolds because you've learned how to handle money, you've learned how to work together, and now you've freed up your most powerful wealth building tool which is your income so way to go you two jason you're welcome jason and larissa in alaska 94 000 paid off in four years and 10 months making 30 to 50 to 3550 to $35. They're free.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're free! We're free! I love it. Well done, you guys. Very well done.

That is fabulous. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal kristin is in rhode island and she says i'm wondering if i should work the debt snowball or pay my care credit card which is right now interest free until december there's a 1600 balance i know if it's better to tackle that first or let's do the

snowball. You can knock it out if you want to. You shouldn't have a lot of debts that are smaller than $1,600 that you can't get to before December. So it sounds like you're not paying enough on debts, like you need to sell some stuff and take an extra job. I mean, if you've got five debts that are under $1,000 and you can't do all of that, including $1,600 by December, you need to look at what's going on. So you should be able to knock this out and anything that was in front of it on the debt snowball by then. So that's what's bothering me more than anything about this. But if you want to move something around, that's up to you.

You can decide. The proven thing that works is to list them smallest to largest. And so that's what I tell people to do. But if you're going to get tagged with a bunch of back interest or something on this zero interest credit card, they're going to charge you back interest or something if you don't get it done by then. Well, you need to make sure you get it done by then. But I'm really thinking it should be done by then anyway so really be looking at your budget really be looking at your income and decide which of those directions you're going to go

open phones at 888-825-5225 if you have changed jobs listen listen to this. A recent study showed that 51% of employees who change jobs leave their old 401k with their previous employer. Don't do that. Always take your 401k with you and roll it into a direct transfer traditional IRA, unless you have a Roth 401k, and then you roll it to a Roth, and pick out good mutual funds with a SmartVestor Pro. You can find mutual funds that will outperform what's in your 401k unless you have a highly unusual 401k, and then you've got 100% access and choice and control over it. You don't have to go back through your old company's HR team to mess with your 401k. I always, that's like every time, recommend when you leave a company, if you have a pre-tax anything, 401k, 403b, pension, lump sum, anything,

take it with you and roll it into a traditional IRA and a direct transfer. There's no taxes for doing that. And you get much more access, much more control, and likely will get better rates of return. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Do you know who is a prime target for identity theft? Your children. Kids have no debts or credit history. Their personal information is just as easy to get,

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Jennifer is with us in Boston, Mass. Hey, Jennifer, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So a little over 10 years ago, I found myself homeless with my four kids. Whoa. Yeah. And was on every government program to get back on my feet, put myself in nursing school, did have to take out student loans for that, about $35,000. I just paid those off, and I managed to kind of squirrel away $15,000 in cash that I have. Good for you. And I have a $14,000 note on my car, and I have a $1,300 bank loan. So I could be out of debt, but I'm having, it's almost like major anxiety that the money

is there and I know I can do it, but I can't pull the trigger on putting the money. I can't, you know what I mean, have no money ever again in my life. How long ago were you homeless? About, well, 11 years ago. Okay. And I have managed to, like I said, go through nursing school. I'm a registered nurse now, and I work in a hospital, and kids are great. How old are your kids?

They range in age now from 14 to 25. The 25-year-old moved out, so the other three are still with me. Okay, and you're working 40 hours. Well, I'm budgeted for 32, but I managed to pick up all the time you know over time is not hard to get as a nurse i know i know and so you're an rn yes and so you make what about 80 000 a year good for you what a great story you are you are a hero lady well done very well done well you know the insecurity the insecurity of dumping that money the last the only money you've got on this debt and being broke after your story would make you a normal human

who wouldn't have that insecurity of course you have a wound there course, this touches a soft spot. Right? Yes. I mean, that just makes that you'd be weird if it didn't. It touches a soft spot in everyone, by the way. But I mean, you have a pretty deep thing there because it activates. You know, I'll give you an example at the Ramsey house. Okay. After bankruptcy, after us going through bankruptcy sharon and me and us about killing each other during that time um if i even go near the drawer where we keep the paperwork for the emergency fund sharon breaks out in hives

she cannot imagine us being without an emergency fund after having been through what we went through. And and or if I do anything habit wise or even body language wise that activates the way I used to act when I was in my 20s. Now I'm in my 50s. It's been 30 years. It's still activates her. And certain things activate me still, you know? I cannot handle someone saying Dave Ramsey doesn't pay his bills. I don't merely become offended.

I go into a rage because Dave Ramsey didn't pay his bills 30 years ago. And I always paid them since and it's like a thing you know but so i have a different visceral reaction like you do because of my past wounds okay so that just makes us normal human beings we need to acknowledge those things now having said all of that i also can look at things and go, I'm a multi-gazillionaire. I don't have any trouble paying my bills. If somebody said I didn't pay my bills, they're obviously full of crap. I really probably don't need to melt down. You know, and you probably don't need to melt down. You make $80,000 a year. You can pick up all the overtime you want to pick up.

How quick mathematically are you going to put $15,000 back in this account, especially since you're a little bit worried and afraid about it? You're going to put it back in about four months, right? So pay off your car. Does that make sense? In other words, we're using our intellect and an act of our will to do the logical, proper thing in spite of the fact that we've got feelings due to our past. So I just saw your program a few months ago, and I've been putting 15%. You know, we live pretty frivolously.

You know, once you've been on government assistance, you kind of figure that out real quick. Yeah, yeah. So you don't ever stop that. Sticks with you the rest of your life, yeah. Yeah, it sure does. So, you know, I've been still putting 15%.'t ever stop that. It sticks with you the rest of your life, yeah. Yeah, it sure does. So, you know, I've been still putting 15%. Should I stop that? Yes.

Yeah, stop that. Okay, because I didn't. Temporarily. Temporarily, because we've got to rebuild this emergency fund. Because you just paid off your car, and you don't have any money. Yeah. Okay. And so you've got to rebuild your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

Then you'll start 15%. Okay. And. Okay. And so you've got to rebuild your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Then you'll start 15%. Okay. And by the way, you are a hero. And you have overcome a lot. But you are no longer defined by that. Let me tell you who you are. You're a lady that makes $80,000 a year and has successfully broken the back of poverty and walked away from it, you probably are going to be a multimillionaire.

That's where you're headed. So let's not talk about once I was on government assistance and once you're on that, you never know. Hey, you're a rock star, kiddo. You have an unbelievable future. I want to send you a copy of Chris Hogan's book, Everyday Millionaires. We studied 10,000 millionaires. And when you read the stories of the millionaires in this book, you're going to find your story in there.

There's a lot of people just like you that become millionaires. Because they're going to do whatever it takes to keep that past in the rearview mirror. And that's you. You are never going back. You are never going back. I am never going back. You and me are... We had something happen to us that was life transforming, and we are never going back.

But I'm also not defined by that. I'm not a guy who filed bankruptcy. I'm a multimillionaire. Because I changed my habits and transformed my life after I filed bankruptcy. So I'm looking at the future, and I've changed my whole family tree, and you are too. I'm so proud of you. I'm so honored to talk to you. What a neat lady.

Hold on. We're going to have Kelly pick up and send you a copy of that book. Pay off your car. Work this system. You're going to be okay. You have what it takes to do this oh you definitely have what it takes to do this i love it thanks you thank you lord for that call today somebody out there needed to hear that i know i did that's awesome stuff guys, the point is this.

You can do it. I don't know who you are, and I don't know where you are, but I've met somebody probably just about like you in the 30 years of me doing this. I don't know what's stacked against you. I don't know how bad you've been hurt, lied to, kicked, beat down, lied down lied about 23 your marriage just ended she took off he took off i don't know where you are but i do know this you can start making choices today to control your destiny you can control the controll. You can't control the things that you don't control. But the things you control, you can control them. And the vast majority of the quality of your future is from your choices,

not from someone else's choices. You are not a victim of your circumstances. Boy, Jennifer just told you that, didn't she? What a cool lady. You are not a victim of your circumstances, your upbringing. That thing that happened to you in the past is not your defining moment. It's your transforming moment. And that's not BS.

That's how life works when you become successful. And it's how you become successful. It's what causes you to persevere. It's what causes you to say, I'm never going to do the things that cost me everything. I'm never going to be back there again. Never. No matter what. You get to decide those things.

Isn't that the coolest thing ever? I think it is. It's why I keep doing this show after 30 years. And it's why some of you are still listening after 30 years. And we appreciate you being there. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener.

I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show

on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.