The Ramsey Show - App - How to Find the Best Employees? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king. And the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Travis is going to start us off this hour at Lake of the Ozarks. Hey, Travis, how are you? Wonderful, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, just kind of looking for maybe some insight, suggestions, maybe some books to offer up. I've been in the restaurant business for about 16, 17 years now since I was 16 years old. Started as a cook, worked my way up. I now own two restaurants with my partners. I'm just kind of hitting a wall where I'm just starting to hit with employees

and just getting burnt out and just kind of in that, just tired of dealing with all the extra stuff, I guess. Are you the manager or the owner of the restaurant? I'm sorry? Are you the manager of the restaurant or the owner? Both. Oh, okay. I'm part owner of two of our stores, and then I manage the one.

So hiring goof-off people that are driving you crazy is driving you crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good part of it. So what specifically, first of all, I'm going to walk you through this in a second, but burnout is nothing more than a symptom. It's a feeling. It's real, the emotions and some of the physical playoffs here, but it's not a source. It's just a symptom. So what specifically is your question, or what is causing you the greatest soul-sucking experience in your current role? I guess just the employee side,

I mean, just not getting the application, not getting the help. So then, I mean, when we are busy, it's, you know, everybody's shorthanded. We, you know, we've got people that are working 14, 15 hours a day because we don't have the extra help. And, you know, I hate putting my employees through that. And so then I start to get down on myself that, you know, what do I need to do better to get them some help, I guess. Right. So really you are overwhelmed. Your team is overwhelmed. Correct.

And that just kind of just keeps cycling in and out, and you go, I can't do this much longer. That's what you're feeling. Yes, very much so. And so your biggest problem is not being able to find people who you can actually hire? Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in every sense of the whole unemployment, you know, fiasco.

I mean, there was a point, you know, for four months where we didn't have an applicant over 16, 17 years old. Yeah. I mean, it was just all dried up pretty much. Well, that was a point for four months where we didn't have an applicant over 16, 17 years old. Yeah. I mean, it was just all dried up pretty much. Well, that was a stupid but federal government program. That's over now, though. Terrible, yeah. That's over now, right?

Yeah, yeah. So is the issue you don't feel you're finding the quality of candidates, or there are no candidates? Just no candidates. I mean, we've used Snagajot. We've used Indeed. We've used Facebook. I mean, we've exhausted all of our, you know, we upped our pay. We've, you know, tried to go through all of the, all the things that we thought would, you know, kind of stir some up, you know, stir up

some talk, but just really haven't had any success yet. That's very interesting. Because I find it, I mean, it's not that I don't believe you, but I'm having a hard time understanding if the unemployment, because that was a pure incentive not to work for sure but if that is gone i'm curious to know why there's a uh a lack of warm bodies that need some cash we're down to a seven percent unemployment right yeah overall okay so let's back up to this all right i i faced the same thing many years ago in our place here because i mean we're getting people out of debt that's not exactly a small market right you know it's like trying to catch a freaking tidal wave with a teacup around here half the time and that's what so it's you're overwhelmed you're we were understaffed perpetually for a decade uh we're not overstaffed now but we're not we don't

have anybody killing themselves because of lack of staff but i experienced the same sense of what you're doing and um so i did a couple of things that began to fix that uh one was i raised our prices so that we had more money to pay better okay and uh i don't know what your price point is in this restaurant, but raise your prices. Okay. And offer more money, you know, not just competitive, but more than the competitors for similar jobs. The second thing I did was I decided this is my main problem. This hiring problem is my main problem this hiring problem is my main problem and me and two or three of the leaders dove on that ball and said we're going to work on hiring until we fix it we're going to hire

recruiters we're going to do everything we started paying a uh referral which we still pay because if you've if you've got good people on your team, you know who they run around with? Good people. Usually good people. Yeah, and so I pay $500 referral if you refer your friend in here. And we hire them and they stay 90 days. Okay. And we also tell them don't refer your crazy friends. I don't need the problem and you don't want to work with them. Right.

Only refer your thoroughbred friends not your donkey friends and i'll give you 500 bucks and you know and you know on tech we had a real tech shortage we were paying and we still do pay on some tech positions a two thousand dollar referral you know what it created 64 of the people that we hired last year came from internal referrals. Wow. My team became my greatest recruiter. What are the positions that you need most? Is it wait staff, kitchen staff? What is it? No, the kitchen staff will go on.

It's the wait staff, just the waitress and waiting side of it. Is this a fine dining restaurant? No, it's a quick service restaurant. Well, I'm curious because you said something there. It's like the only people applying are 16 and 17-year-olds. You know, listen, I don't know why you aren't open to 16 and 17-year-olds because this is leadership. You can train them. You can find good kids.

That's my main. I mean, I enjoy working with the kids and seeing them grow and growing into positions and stuff. It's just getting them. I mean, we do $100. You know, if they last 30 days, we give them $100 for the referral program. I tell you, you bring me six people, I'll pay you $600. Yeah, I think you're on to something there. So anyway, what I did to answer your question, the way I solved the problem was

I said we've got to treat this like it's going to destroy us if we don't fix it because it's destroying you. You called and said I'm burnt out. And I own the dadgum place, you know. treat this like it's going to destroy us if we don't fix it because it's destroying you you called and said i'm burnt out and i own the dadgum place you know and so you know if i don't like what's going on around here i can fix it i own it you know or i can change it i can pay more work less change the hours raise the prices you know institute referral programs raise the referral programs decide that you're going to okay this is going to be all about training teenagers and so you're going to be known all

throughout the area like chick-fil-a is as being a place to train a teenager and then you've got another incentive for people to want to work there or whatever but but you know we fixed it and we've got a substantially better team oh the last piece is spend more time hiring quit using the mirror test to hire as they fog up a mirror you're so desperate that you put stupid butt people on your team and they'll drive you crazy and they drive your customers crazy and then you got to fire them and start again it's easier to take to slow down and don't have to do it as often yeah and if you want to get 16 and 17 year olds everything dolds, everything Dave said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But I would also get really intentional about the schools in the area, the leaders, the coaches, finding the kids that, and I'm not talking sheer popularity, but high-character kids who have influence in that community

because kids will flock to where the cool kids and where the kids that are, they'll go there. And that's, word of mouth is everything. Also help the business exactly on quick serve yeah good stuff good stuff hey man good question hang on i'm gonna send you a copy of the entree leadership book our number one bestseller on how we run our business here and it'll help you on some of this you got a legitimate problem i think you can solve it though this is the d Ramsey Show. You know, so many people have such a negative attitude about life insurance when it's actually one of the most caring and giving things that you can do. Still, seven out of ten families either

have no life insurance or they don't have enough. I don't get it. Look around. People die at all ages. I know it's sad, but that's reality. What's worse is when they leave their family unprotected, creating even more hardship. Yet somehow we find reasons not to get it done. It can't be the price.

Term insurance is just plain cheap. Now, that's why I talk about Zander Insurance so much. Not because they're just an advertiser, but because they offer a crucial service that helps you and me. Call them at 800-356-4282 or check out their rates at zander.com. Listen, in the end, you need to get past the unpleasant images and just make sure your family's protected. Be responsible and feel good about what you've accomplished. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. 800-356-4282. so last weekend a lady called on the air when a.o and anthony on our own here and her husband had passed away

and um they've been married seven years, and he had never changed his beneficiaries on his 401K or his life insurance. And so all the money after seven years of marriage and two kids, was going to his parents. His mom had died, leaving his father with all of the money that his family should have had because he didn't go and change beneficiaries on his 401K and on his life insurance, and he didn't have a will. Now, the only good part of this story is the father-in-law said i'm going to give you the two hundred thousand dollars back to his daughter-in-law because it really should have been yours this is a screw up how am i going to do that without taxes and that and so i was

able to talk them through that but you have got to get a will yeah and you have to do your work when there's a life change you get married you change your beneficiaries on your 401ks on your life insurance policies to your freaking spouse come on you get your power of attorney in place if you do all of these things when things go sideways in your life and you have the horrible event of losing someone, it lessens the blow because you got one less thing to worry about, 10 less things to worry about. And so you hear me say this all the time. With your questions in mind about wills, our team decided to build a quiz and the quiz gives you custom results based on if you're married or single, where you live, and even

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QUIZ. Text the word QUIZ to 33789. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping. The new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Ken, our question.

Today's question is from Evan in Indiana. He asked, I'm currently an office manager for a long-term care facility. I paid cash to go back to school to get my health facility administrator license. My current administrator is fine with my work and school plan. However, the company that owns the facility is now saying I cannot take the courses and that I need to be here during normal business hours. The course is only six weeks and is live online due to COVID. I have about $10,000 in the bank that I was going to use on debt.

Should I continue with the education and live off of the $10,000 in the bank that I was going to use on debt. Should I continue with the education and live off of the $10,000 or give up on the idea and try to get a partial refund? Do not, Evan, touch the $10,000 other than to write the check. If you were going to use it on debt, use it on debt now. That's going to fast-forward everything else in your life. In this situation, you've got a very, and again, I wish I had the context of a phone call here, but you've got your current leader saying they're okay, but the facility saying it's not okay and you got to be there. So unless you

can walk to another job that would replace your current income and still allow you to do this education, then what I would do is try to get a refund, explain the situation to the online education provider, and say, hey, can I get credit for this and then refund or not have to pay the rest until I can get a different situation or maybe get the partial refund and maybe a credit. And at this point, now I'm going to have to find another opportunity because you can't put your income, your livelihood at risk just because you want to get qualified to do something else. And so you've got to make some decisions here. And I think at first pass, I'd say pause and let's see if we can find another online program that I can do after work

hours. Yeah, or, you know, talk to the administrator, and if they don't want to give you a refund, say, can you help me by making it on demand instead of live, and then you do it at night. That's right. But basically, if I understand this right, I have about 10k, and the bank was going to use it on debt. Should I continue with the education and live off the 10k, meaning quit my job? Yeah, no, that's what I'm really not. Quit my job and live off the 10k in order my job yeah no that's what i'm really not quit my job and live off the 10k in order just to finish this to do what to go back and get the same job yeah with this after you did this routine no that's not worth it um and so i i i think this is a don't don't create a bigger problem you know the the temporary access to the education and lining that up with your work,

that's a temporary problem. You create a permanent problem when you quit your job. Because when you run out of the 10K, you might not have a job still. And so it's kind of crazy. So now I'm with you, Ken. I think you stay in the job and you try to work this out with the existing educator and or even the facilities manager. Maybe you can talk to them and say, look, how can I make this up just during this short period of time because I don't want to lose this $10,000.

Yeah. You know, one thing I didn't think of until you just said that, maybe you go, look, I understand that during work hours I need to be at work. I've already committed to this. My leader, my direct leader, was fine with it. I understand that you're not. But we've got a communication breakdown here. I don't want to lose at work. I've already committed to this. My leader, my direct leader, was fine with it. I understand that you're not, but we've got a communication breakdown here. I don't want to lose my money. I want to get this qualification, be able to move up the ladder, and eventually be a facility administrator. So can we work out a situation where I give you the time back? Can I continue the course and then figure out? I mean, honest people and reasonable people can come up

with a solution to something like this. Agreed. Absolutely. Well done. Good stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Nathan is in Dallas. Hi, Nathan. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I'm an 18-year-old sophomore out of Dallas I have about 20, 15 to 20 K in cash. And then I have a hundred K in stocks and I just don't know what to do with that money. Cause I was, I kind of made a gamble with the stock after I had made my money back that I put into the market and it paid off really well. Um, I only put 10 K and then I ended up with a hundred K and I just don't

know what to do with that money. I was looking at real estate, but I'm scared that I'm going to lose that money. I have no debt. Okay. Are you going to school? Yeah, I'm a sophomore in university right now. Oh, in the university. Okay, not a sophomore in high school. Okay.

So how are you paying for that? I only have to pay about $5K in tuition. Most of it was scholarships and then room and board, so I paying about 10k well done well done are you working as well through school uh no i have a kind of podcast youtube channel that i've been earning money on uh and so that's where i got that 20k in cash i i made roughly 45k last year and i saved about 50 percent of it um because i just don't know what to do other than save money i'm just not very financially literate well i don't think that's true i think you're highly unusually financially literate for someone your age and you're making really good money

you've got a hundred thousand dollars i don't get this call very often from college sophomores okay so i think you've done very very well the only thing i would correct in the whole process is i think you were right when you used the word gamble i took a gamble on a stock and you got an unusually high wonderful return uh but that's not the norm the normal person that plays single stocks does not make high and unusual returns so you you did you got lucky on that part of it and if i'm in your shoes i'm not going to leave all that at risk in other words you'd walked by with a quarter and for fun dropped it in the slot machine and they went ding ding ding ding you don't stand there and put all the quarters back in you go cash them in and put the money

in the bank and you finish school i mean you, or in a calm investment like a mutual fund or something like that. But I'm not going to tell you to continue to play the stocks because I don't play them, and I know more about them than you do. And I know enough about them to know that I don't play them. So I invest long-term. I don't do day trading. I don't do trying to make, turn $25,000 into $100,000. I don't do that because I don't find people that are wealthy people doing that continually

because it eventually catches up with you, and you're going to turn $100,000 into $5,000. And so, yeah, you've done very well. Congratulations. But you could be the guy who dropped a quarter in and thinks this happens all the time. Don't be that guy. This is The Dave Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the dave ramsey show thank you for joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 alex is with us in seattle washington hi alex how are you hey dave doing okay okay uh i guess don't be mad but um so I sold my house and I used the money to fly

through the baby steps and I'm kind of worried because I used it also to get through my emergency fund and I had enough to cover it sent payment on a new house it just feels kind of dirty like I'm borrowing borrowing against my house I'm not mad it's exactly what i told you to do really yeah i would tell you not to buy a house unless you were debt free and had your emergency fund so if you cash out of house number one the first thing you can do is clear your debt put your emergency fund in place and whatever's left over is your down payment on your new house you're right the net effect is is you did borrow it against the new house but that's still what i would have told you to do as long as the new house 15-year fixed and the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, we're on the same page here.

It is. Can I ask a second question? Sure. The new house was appraised at $15,000 under the listing value. And I can't tell if I'm getting a good deal or if i'm about to get hosed did you close on it uh i'm super close to that happening okay all right i thought you had already bought it the way you're talking a minute ago okay so i mean so what's the price of the house? Well, it appraised at $323. My buying price was originally going to be $332.

Okay. So let's see. It's 4%. That was quick. An appraisal is an opinion of value. I dare say in today's COVID world that an appraiser can hit it within 4%. It's a little bit arrogant of the appraiser, honestly, to not appraise it for contract value when it's within that area. But some appraisers think they're Barney Fife and they actually know the real value. It's an opinion of value based on a comparative market analysis approach. I've got a degree in

real estate. I know how to do appraisals. So I argue with appraisers all the time. They really act like, well, I have this figured out. I had a guy argue with me over 500 bucks one time. You know, it's a 242,005 or 242,000. Like, you know, within 500 bucks what this house is worth. You're an idiot. This is me and the appraiser yelling at him. It's just ridiculous. So I would buy the house. No, you're not getting hosed.

If you call me up, you go, you're 35% over or something. Yeah, you might be getting hosed. Your emotions may have got the best of you, but I don't think anybody knows within 4% in a COVID world what a house is worth. I don't, and I'm good at it. So I think you're fine, dude. I think you're in good shape. Because I've got to tell you, Ken, real estate is selling like crazy. Copper is up 34%.

So wiring going into houses is crazy. You can't buy plywood anywhere in the United States. Lumber packages are up 126 percent on new construction you can't find asphalt shingles to put on a house the factories aren't producing the goods to build the new houses and guess what that's doing to the used housing market hot hot hot hot hot gonna drive prices up because supply demand curve is there unless you live in one of these states where they're completely abandoning the entire state like California. And even then, I talked to a guy from San Diego last night who told me that it makes

no sense. People are leaving California by the droves, and yet the houses are selling 10 days for full price still. It's unbelievable. Prices have not taken a hit yet. And for the folks that are listening, Dave, that have never bought a home, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the appraisal in this situation, that's for the folks that are listening, Dave, that have never bought a home, correct me if I'm wrong, but the appraisal in this situation, that's for the loan.

That's for where he's getting a loan. They want to make sure they're not giving a loan to something that hasn't had the value. So it's not – I don't know if the word is compensatory or whatever, but it's just so that the loan company or the mortgage company goes, okay, this is something. If something were default, we've got ourselves value. Isn't that really what that appraisal is about? Yeah, it's an opinion of value to let the mortgage company know that they're not overloaning on it. So the mortgage company.

And let you know you're not overpaying on it. Exactly. But it's an estimate, for God's sake. Right. And the mortgage company doesn't mind in that situation. As long as it's on the up and up and you don't do it behind the scenes. You do it behind the scenes, it's illegal in some states. Right.

So you have to cover the cash at the closing, and they're only going to make the loan based on the appraisal, not based on the sale price. Exactly. And so the loan is a different situation. But he's got a huge down payment is what we're hearing behind the scenes on this. And so he's got plenty of wiggle room, and an extra $15K is not that big a deal on a $325,000 deal. I wouldn't think anything about it one way or the other.

And if you bought it for $15,000 under that, you wouldn't think you stole it. No. If you buy it for $50,000 under that, under a $300,000 price, you think you stole it. You think you got a great buy, right? But, I mean, $15,000 was just negotiation one way or the other. You know, you really don't, the ratio to the price is what, and to the value is what would tell you whether you're getting hosed or whether you stole something or all those kinds of things. What are those percentages? And that's what he's looking at.

So some of you are in markets like we're in here in our county. You put a sign in the yard, and there's, like, people lined up and drawing lotto tickets to get to make offers, and they're making multiple offers over multiple, I mean, sometimes 10%, 20% over what it's listed for, over asking in order to get to the front of the line because seven offers will come in the first weekend, that kind of stuff. And so you really need, like one of our good ELPs, our endorsed local providers for real estate,

to guide you through basically what is effectively a bidding war. And for you to do that ethically, legally, and also then get the most out of the situation because you have this frenzy, this feeding frenzy of piranha, and you want to just be careful what you're throwing to the piranha because there's real opportunity in a market like that to do well, but also to not maximize that and really get a bunch of people sideways with you and end up in a lawsuit or something else because it wasn't handled right because you did not have a pro in your corner.

So you need a pro in your corner when the market's hot because it's hot, and you need a pro in your corner when the market's not because it's hot, and you need a pro in your corner when the market's not because it's not. And that's how you get it sold. I was going to ask you from a real estate perspective, with the obviously still historically low interest rates, it doesn't seem like the Fed's tipping their hand and that we're going to see any kind of a spike anytime soon with the migration out of California. At some point, does that real estate market begin to soften? It has to. Yeah, it can't keep it up when people are leaving.

Supply-to-man curve. So you could have prices dropping there. And New York as well. You know, there's all this discussion as to whether Manhattan will ever recover. Mm-hmm. You know, because it's basically a science fiction ghost town. Right. And so will it economically ever come back?

Well, that's what I wanted to ask you, your opinion. Let me tell you what will happen. This is one of the few times that politics actually does matter. You know, we always say what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the White House, and that's true. But when you take a government and they shut down an entire state or an entire city and turn it into a science fiction movie, then, you know know then you've got policies you have to change politicians and open the place back up and put some common sense policies in instead of taking credit for being the world's best governor when uh you know all

you did was you know the worst possible job in the whole thing right and so it's it's not politics it's not what it's about it's about freedom because business cannot operate in two situations business cannot operate and economics cannot flourish unless there's freedom and it cannot operate and flourish unless there is a predictable moral code and so we've had two things slam businesses shut uh you know downtown seattle downtown minneapolis downtown portland businesses are leaving because they don't have a predictable moral code law and order order as opposed to chaos law as opposed to lawlessness and so business has to have a predictable environment we had a smart conference scheduled downtown Minneapolis. I can't do a smart conference there because I can't predict that my people that I invite there as my guests

are not going to get into some kind of sideways disastrous mess up there because of the way they're managing the city. And so you lose the economics when you don't have a predictable moral code and you don't have freedom to operate. And so these cities are going to suffer from this, and that is driven by policy. And the way you change policies, you change those politicians. They should be changed regularly, like diapers, and for the same reasons. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. our scripture of the day proverbs 2 6 for the lord gives wisdom from his mouth comes knowledge and understanding john nesbitt said, we are drowning in information but starve for knowledge. That's a Google generation quote.

Very good. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Instagram, Corey says, Ken, I've always heard it's easier to find a job when you have a job. I think that's total baloney. How do you keep encouraged? How do you how do I keep encouraged when job hunting? I very much want to find a new job. But every leader interview I've had has been a dud. How do I find out what I might be doing wrong? Well, that's a tough question, because what we know is that we are in a generation where there are so many candidates and the interview process is very digital in that you get to the interview and then the feedback is pretty much contained to an email.

Either we're going to have you back or we chose somebody else. It's very hard for individuals to get feedback from the people that are interviewing you. And so instead of looking at almost an impossible place to find feedback, I want you to go to KenColeman.com. We've got a free resource called How to Win the Interview. And it's really broken down into two key areas that I'm going to teach you what to do so you can win. The first is the preparation for the interview. The second area is the performance of the interview. And there is a tried and true process, which I teach you how to do. And it's free, simple and easy to understand and then actually apply.

And I would start with that. And then the other thing is to stay encouraged in the job hunting process overall is that this is a hunt. And I love the word hunt here. And all my friends and my dad and my brother, all these hunters, you know, part of the hunt is I got to get out there. I got to keep showing up. I got to be patient and wait. And I've got information. I know where to go. I know if I keep showing up, eventually that animal that I'm hunting is going to show up.

And it's very much the same mindset. You cannot get discouraged. You get determined. So go to KenColeman.comcom get the how to win the interview guide i'm going to give you step-by-step the process that will prepare you and then you will be able to perform dave you know one of the things that you and i and all of the rams personalities and all of our team we do a lot of public speaking we do live radio shows that i've learned that relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. We see this in football, these two-minute drills.

How do these quarterbacks lead a team from the 99 yards, from the goal line all the way down in a minute and a half? Well, they've practiced that two-minute drill over and over and over and over again. They've watched film over and over again, and they've prepared and they've prepared and they've prepared. And at the time when they need to step up, and a job interview is a pressure-filled situation, your brain is a supercomputer. If you prepare it, it will perform. Let me ask you this.

I'm curious what your take on this is. I read a book by Steve Malloy when I was 20. No, I was 17 years old, 17 17 years old that my dad gave me because I was getting my real estate license I got my real estate license three weeks after I turned 18 and this is 1978 called dress for success yes and his the book was all about a white shirt, a tie, a blue, dark blue, or black blazer, and matching suit. Do not try to make a fashion statement. Do not try to make a personal brand statement. Now, today, that would be ridiculous.

This is basically saying dress like men in black, right? And Will Smith with the talking pug, right, the whole thing. basically saying dressed like men in black right and uh you know will smith on with you know with the pug talking pug right the whole thing so uh but but today um might not have a tie i don't own a tie now uh but but the idea that you dress in such a way that it does not draw attention to your dress in other words you're professional but they don't think oh they're overdressed they're crazy what are they like what were they thinking with that uh the interviewer uh and or you don't you don't overplay it but you also don't do some wacky thing where you come in dress like you're interviewing for a punk rock band and you're going to a bank because all they're

going to do is go you're so confused you can't work here well people shouldn't judge you know people do judge yeah i'm tired of hearing that don't judge a book by its cover well yeah we do we do a lot we do a lot of work on the book covers yeah you might as well say you know don't be a human because some barns need paint yeah so here's what here's what surveys show that hiring managers have a first impression of you within the first five seconds of you entering their office or whatever the conference room is. So when you walk in, whether you like it or not, the human instinct is going to prevail, not over some smarmy, you know, feel-good statement. The fact is people do judge you instantly. And to your point, you don't want to draw attention to yourself for being outlandish and therefore

shoot yourself in the foot before the interview ever gets going you want to do the research what is the dress code at Ramsey Solutions what do people wear then come up and and show up and look like if you were walking through the halls we would think you were on the team very simple dress to the level but then there's also the idea of, you know, if you don't have an iron, guys, get an iron. Have somebody show you how to iron your pants, for crying out loud. If you look like you slept in your clothes, it's not a good idea. You might be a very sharp candidate who just nobody's ever had the sense or the desire or the duty to teach you how to look. You know, tuck your shirt in, wear a belt.

You know, look like you actually give a crud. And that will essentially, as you say, Dave, it will allow you to just blend in. They're not even thinking anything negative at all. Now they're focused on you, the candidate. But so many people shoot themselves in the foot. Before the interview even starts. You haven't uttered a word and they think bad things about you and now you got our uphill climb yeah at best yeah and you may not ever get out of the hole you dug just by walking into the room so actually a little bit

of posture yes a little bit of a smile eye contact a handshake eye contact yeah but i mean it's basic social skills will cause you. Let me just tell you, from the standpoint of the interviews that we do here, if you just do the stuff we've been talking about, you really do have, you just beat a whole bunch of the competition. Yeah. Because they came in looking like they slept in their clothes, looking like they're interviewing for a punk rock band.

Right. And they come in with looking down, hadn't brushed their teeth. Yeah. They got BO. And, you know, the interview is over before it started. That's right. Well, you know, Ken, what does it matter? I'm not very stylish. No, listen, if you wear dirty shoes to an interview or the tips of your leather shoes look like, you know, somebody took a cheese grater to them, it sends a message that you just don't pay attention to detail and you don't care. And great organizations are going, do you care enough to show up and put out a good

first impression? And I think that's a huge thing. I would also tell you this, that body language, if you actually do a little bit of study in that How to Win the Interview Guide, Dave, we actually give them some basic 101 body language tips on how to overcome the nerves. Because it is a, for many people, the job interview is the most pressure-filled, anxiety-ridden performance that many will ever have. And so you've got to understand, what do I do to overcome the nerves?

You and I, Dave, first time we spoke in front of thousands of people, well, there's some nerves there. Well, guess what? If you prepare your talk and you know where you're going to go and you've prepared for the questions that you're going to get asked, you have a good idea why you want to work there, and you're prepared for this, and you've thought about it ahead of time. Again, your brain will step up, and it will fill your mouth when you need to, and you lean forward. You smile. You nod.

Ask some questions in the interview. And, Dave, my pet peeve, all-time pet peeve is – One of my guys asked me – I did a 25-minute talk to a staff meeting Monday morning. And he said, how long did you prepare for that 25 minute talk monday morning i said 35 years it's exactly right that's exactly right but you know one of the things that people don't know in a job interview dave that'll set them apart is when somebody says to you at the end of the interview or somewhere in the interview do you have any questions for me and And if you go, nope, I'm good. No, you're not. Have some questions ready to ask the interviewer. Ask them some questions. What kind of person typically wins at Ramsey Solutions? What kind of person is going to

get shown the door pretty quickly? What do you love most about the culture at this place? Come up and we have examples like this and that how to win the interview guide. But when you get the opportunity to speak in an interview, and most of the time you will please have a question or two ready to go you wouldn't believe how that'll set you apart from your competition because you had the foresight pretend like you were going to meet the most important person that would you be completely starstruck with how would you act how would you do you get ready you don't go running up and go you know i really love i really love show, and it's the wrong show. You know what I mean?

It's like that kind of stuff. Ken Coleman, good stuff. The book or the interview guide is at KenColeman.com. Pick it up. James Childs, thanks for the show today. Kelly Daniel, great job. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.