The Ramsey Show - App - How To Leave a Toxic Work Situation (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Our newest Ramsey Personality, Jade Warshaw How to quit a toxic workplace, Deciding how long to keep a business open, What to do with a pension. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

This is The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. But I got a special treat for you guys right now. We are going to spend a few moments here introducing our newest Ramsey personality, money personality, Jade Warshaw. Welcome. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having me.

This is exciting stuff, man. Hey, this is. Everybody's gathered around, all of your biggest fans in the building, which is everybody. I see them out there. And they're gathered around to watch this moment happen fans in the building, which is everybody. I see them out there. And they're gathered around to watch this moment happen. This has been going on a while. Of course, you've been with the team for a while, and today we bring you on the air for the first time. And you folks will be hearing from her a lot more in the coming months, the coming years,

at events, with books, with showing up here on this microphone as we answer questions about your life and your money. So what brings you, for the sake of the audience, I know, but what brings you here? Give us a little bit of your background. I'll be happy to, Dave. You know, my background is actually not in money. And I tell people that my background is actually in entertainment. I was a vocalist for 15 years, Dave, professionally. My husband and I performed over 92 countries all around the world. And when we came out of music school, we found out, we discovered, Dave, that we had close to half a million dollars of debt. $460,000 of debt is what we had. Good Lord. Unbelievable. know i tell people all the time i'm not talking about like like mortgage debt dave this is consumer debt this is credit cards dave this is for music music and you know dave music school you know which is known for pay big pay oh and you know

how good musicians manage money like almost as good as athletes there's a reason for the stereotype yeah absolutely yeah so it was all student loan debt or most of it was? Most of it was student loan debt. $280,000 of it, Dave, was student loan debt. Can you believe that? Unbelievable. And so we knew we needed to make a change. And I had heard of you before.

I remember years ago, I had heard you on the car, in my brother's car, you were on the radio talking about debt. I'm pretty sure you were calling somebody stupid and kicking their butt. But in that moment, it was you, Dave. Yeah. And you were kicking our butt too. And I told Sam, I was like, man, I think we need to do this Dave Ramsey thing. And from then on, we got serious. We started the plan. And in seven and a half years, Dave, we were able to pay off every single cent of $460,000 of debt. And if I could add, because I know whenever I say that people are like, ooh, you must have had like

this, you know, this big income or you must have like magic beans or something like that. I'm telling you guys, when we came out of college, we got married one week, Dave, after graduation. And I mean, when i tell you we had no jobs we had no prospects we had no money all we had was that four hundred and sixty thousand dollars of debt and our income was super low because musicians you know our income at the time starting out dave was 30k that's how did you get out then well that was starting though that was starting look i tell people all the time you got to work there's a like you say all the time there's a wonderful place to go when

you don't have any money that's to work and that's what we did we started of course we were in the entertainment thing so we were doing gigs and that started picking up but you know what dave i attribute a lot of this because i think that when you decide to submit to a plan something really magical happens and you start getting when you say i want to a plan, something really magical happens and you start getting, when you say, I want to work and I'm willing to work, you start to receive opportunities to work and you start to see them everywhere. And when you say, I'm going to do that, then that's what you do. So we started working everywhere. I mean, at one point we were traveling 35 weeks out of the year internationally doing shows. And then in between the shows we would pick up

side gigs i'm talking about we were doing everything my husband was teaching lessons i was teaching lessons i would bake cupcakes and sell the cupcakes uh my husband would design websites at one point i got a job working at a tent and vinyl lettering company and so i would go in there in the daytime and the first half of the day I would install tint on the windows. And then the second half of the day I would put vinyl letters on work trucks. So if you've ever seen a truck that says like, I don't know, like Bubba's roofing and or Bubba's heating and cooling. That was me.

You did it. Those letters were straight, Dave. Those letters. They were on there. You guys were getting it. Man. Y'all were stepping and fetching. I mean, you were getting after it man y'all were y'all were stepping and fetching i mean you were getting after it you uh the hustle and grind the grit and to pay off four hundred sixty thousand and

seven and a half years you don't do that uh sitting around and people handing you money you went and got money and caused it to happen it's a big deal oh yeah and you know one of the things that we talked about you and sam and sharon and I were at dinner when we were talking about you guys coming on board here. And you said growing up, your family had a saying and you don't want to ever hear that saying again. Oh, yeah. You know, growing up, you know, my parents, they did the best they could with what they had. And, you know, I think as in so many American families, you know, that paycheck to paycheck, it's real, you know, and I used to hear all the time. We ain't got no money. You know, by the time the end of the month rolls around, we ain't got no money, you know, and I just, it just frustrated me to no end. And, you know, I'd been there so

many times that by the time I got married and knew that I wanted a family, that was a phrase that I vowed I would not say. Now we can, we can save up money until we can afford to do things and we can say no temporarily. But that's a whole different mindset than just saying I ain't got it. I ain't got no money that that that is a phrase that will not be in my vocabulary other than to teach others how to get out of that mentality. And warning already, I'll let some of you know, if it's in your vocabulary, she's going to remove it. Oh, I've gotten I've gotten permission to kick some butts in here, Dave. I'm ready. Y'all gave me formal permission to kick butts. It's in the contract. It's in the contract. Oh, yeah. Okay. So talk about what you're going to

be doing with the Ramsey team here. So, you know, the big thing for me is baby step two. Y'all are going to hear me talk about baby step two all the time because we spent seven and a half years there. I know how to get out of that. I know how to motivate you. I know how to set your mind right so that you're going to start working. And I hope to do a lot of that co-hosting the show with the team, the Ramsey Show. We've got some live events coming up in the spring, Building Wealth. I'll be a part of some of those events. And it's been really fun. I've been working a lot with the Financial Peace University team. So I think you're going to see me as part of that. So we've got some things planned.

We got some plans in the work, Dave. It's going to be good. I saw a thing you guys were working on, six-figure freedom. Come on. That's a good phrase. Dave, I almost come out of my chair when you said that. Six-figure freedom. This is what this is all about. You know, I read a stat that said the average millennial has $117,000 of debt. Consumer debt, again, not mortgage debt. And I think to myself, you know, people say, oh, Jade, you had $460,000. That's the high end of the $460,000, right? Or of the six figures. But people come in at 117K. That's the norm now.

And I said, there is something in the Six Figure Freedom Club. We are going to make sure that the content is there to keep you motivated, keep you moving forward, and you will pay off six figures of debt. You can tell me you won't do it, Dave, but do not tell me that you can't. Don't say we ain't got no money. She's not going to accept it. I'm just telling you. I love it. Jade Warshaw, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the team. Awesome times here at Ramsey, folks. Awesome times.

This lady's on fire. You guys are going to grow to love her as we have very, very quickly. ДИНАМИЧНАЯ МУЗЫКА phone number is 888-825-5225 george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money in case you you couldn't tell, debt-free screams are kind of a big deal around here. The folks who stand on this stage are heroes. The people who call in and are debt-free, tell their story, are heroes. They chose to live like no one else, and now they get to live and give like no one else. So we came up with the idea of the Live and Give Box. So it's got goodies in it.

It's got the total money makeover book over a million copies sold. That's a good one to give, but you might want to keep it. You can get an entire year of financial peace university and you get the latest number one bestseller, baby steps, millionaires, all of this in one box, keep some of it, give some of it. It's the live and give box. $99. That's a deal. Along with a bazillion other deals, obviously, for the Christmas holidays. All at Ramsey Solutions. So, RamseySolutions.com. Be sure and check out the store there.

If you want the live and give box, it ramsey solutions.com slash box madison is with us in columbus ohio hey madison welcome to the ramsey show hi dave hi george it's an honor and a privilege uh long time listener first time caller well thank you how can we help today um it's actually a career question um i'm 27 years old. I'm a registered nurse. I just left my specialty of seven years for what I thought was my dream job. I thought I was leaving for a job that was a perfect fit, and I was super excited to start, but I'm slowly realizing that it's a very toxic work environment, and it's not what I signed up for. I've pretty much decided that it's not a good fit for me mentally and physically. I'm just asking of how I need to proceed to leave on the best terms possible.

Wow, I'm sorry. Thank you. You got another gig you can go to, obviously, in nursing, right? Yes, yes, and I'm trying to find something that i'm honestly passionate about i think the most frustrating part about all of this is that i really felt like i put the time into real uh making sure that this was a good fit what you miss move into my career what'd you miss i'm sorry what did you miss leadership leadership i think that's my biggest problem right now and that's something that i can't change you know i'm just saying if i you know i'm trying to if you stepped in a trap once before i would want to know what that trap looks like and smells like if you're going if you're

going through the forest again right yes and i do feel like i've learned a lot in this experience it's just i need to leave It's not a good fit. Okay. How would you describe the environment? You're saying it's a toxic workplace. There's not good leadership. What does that look like in the day-to-day? Chaos. I really feel kind of the backstory of this is that the person that is training me, he actually fired and I am now expected to step into this position. Too many icky things have happened, and I just don't feel right about it. You know, it's just not who I want to be working under as somebody who wants to be in a leadership position.

Okay. So you've got people that are struggling with integrity, they're struggling with communication, they're struggling with organizational skills um so we know you know who they are and um you cannot control how they react although we can fairly predict it yeah i mean who you just described to me is probably not going to react with class no and i've already seen it yeah so um that doesn't change who you are it changes it just states who they are and so the only thing the only thing you can do is a don't expect an alligator to do anything but be an alligator number one so don't set your expectations that regardless of what you do that somehow you're

going to make these people be something other than toxic because they're probably going to react in a toxic manner just be ready for that brace yourself right um that doesn't define you that defines them and that doesn't uh also on the second part of the equation then is it also doesn't uh dictate how you handle this. You handle this not based on them, but based on you. You're a person of class. You're a person of integrity. And so you're going to be that person here. And so you're going to be calm and kind and direct. And by the way, there's no reason to critique them on the way out. It will do no good.

Should I offer advice if they ask for it? No, nope, nope, nope, nope. Okay. Nope. That's just standard exit interview crap that they're not going to take the advice or they would have already been doing all these things. I personally don't believe in exit interviews. We do them at Ramsey because a bunch of my leadership

team disagrees with me and i acquiesced and let them do them but i don't need an exit interview i'm staying i'm going to keep it being who i am and i don't really give a crap what your opinion is if you're leaving so i'm that that's me that may be toxic but it is what it is i'm i'm staying you're not. So why do I care what you think? You know? So anyway, besides that, these people aren't going to listen and you're not, you're no longer in my point of that whole rant was there. You're not in a position of credibility.

Once you've quit to influence decisions there, the only way you got, you can influence decisions there is staying with your shoulder to the wheel. But once you've decided to leave, you're not in a a position of influence so do what's best for me and my family yeah very quickly quietly calmly with as few sentences and as few things in writing as possible other than just thank you for the opportunity this whole situation is just different than i thought it was it doesn't line up with the way i think, and I just can't do this, and I am so sorry. And gosh, thank you for letting me try, and thank you for the opportunity, and I've just accepted a thing at another place.

Bye. And it's just really, really, really, really short. Thank you so much. This gave me a lot of guidance yeah just be very very kind and quiet and quick um there's no the decisions made there's nothing that's going to change the decision by having a long discussion and you're going to get drawn into their web of garbage if you start having a discussion about it. Because you're gone.

Thank you. You're gone. You already told me you're gone. There's nothing they can do that will make you stay, right? Yes. Yeah. So the decision's made. It's just now a matter of executing it.

And, again, you're a person of class, a person of integrity, so leave with lots of class and smile and grateful. Thank you for letting me try this. I'm so sorry it didn't work out. And gosh, I wish you guys the best. I hope everything works well. And, you know, good luck with your toxic bad self. And so a lot of people feel like I owe my employer all of this when I'm leaving. And so it's like a breakup when you're a teenager. You don't want to drag it out and make it this big emotional process. If it's done, it's done. And we have to be adults and just move on.

And, you know, truthfully, the same is true on the other side of the coin. The way we train leadership here and the way we train entree leaders is if you're going to work with someone and give that person a bunch of input, do that before you fire them. You know, so I'm going to, we're going to work together. We're going to have some difficult conversations and say this activity, this behavior, this attitude, whatever it is that has to change. You know, you're going to do better. You're going to prosper. If you adopt these character qualities, you know,

we're going to walk with you and help you and coach you uh and if you don't then you can't be a we because we do it this way and so we're going to talk about being a we talk about it talk about it talk about it talk about it but once we've decided that that that the relationship as far as employment is going to end uh the exit for the person is about a minute and a half long. As quickly as possible. Yeah, it's just, you know, we've been talking about this, and I'm so sorry, but we don't think it's going to work anymore, and today's your last day. And so HR will help you with the paperwork, and we're going to give you, we've agreed

to give you a severance of this much, and gosh, any way we can help you out there in the world, we'll help you any way we can but we don't believe that there's a change is going to happen anymore and boom it's i mean it's quiet quitters do not survive that dave no it's we we don't do it's very very loud in a not in the sense of yelling but it's very crystal clear and long before we got to uh quiet firing or it wouldn't be quiet firing it would be be loud firing, direct clear firing. There we go. Long before we got that with a quiet quitter, we would have had these discussions.

Coaching and 90-day plans. Mediocrity is your goal. You ain't a we. We don't do mediocrity. We're going for excellence. We're trying to win the Super Bowl, so you're not going to fit in. We. We go for it.

And so if you want to be a we, you got to go for it. And we would have had that discussion and then we would have, the quiet quitting would have ceased. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're with us. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Jesse is with us in Pennsylvania. How are you, Jesse? I'm doing great, Dave. Hey, before we get started, I'd just like to say thank you. Outside of other than my immediate family, you and one other person have probably been the biggest influences in my life and i want to thank you for that oh my goodness merry christmas i'm honored thank you i mean i i grew up on a farm and um you know our our farm trucks that

hauled the hay bales and stuff the only day am radios in it so it's like me my dad and my grandpa riding around listening to dave ramsey you were stuck with me you were stuck nothing else to listen to the captive it was great man that's the way to grow up, right? Very cool. Very cool. How can we help today? So I kind of am just looking for some reassurance. So we started a business. It was a hobby. By the way, we're in baby steps four, five, and six. Um, we haven't put any money into six for a while. And I'm kind of looking for some reassurance that we've done this right. We started a dairy, a micro dairy. So it's a little farm farming's my passion, right? And I'm a real estate agent and I don't

have time to practice real estate now because back in 2019, when we launched our little hobby, we made $5,000. It was a great hobby. It was fun. People thought it was a lot of fun. So 2020 comes, COVID happens. Pennsylvania says no more real estate agents. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to see where this goes. We made $30,000. This isn't, this isn't gross sales. We're profit margins, like 45 to 50%. And then in 2021, we're at 72,000 in sales. And this year we're probably going to top out around 125,000 in sales. You know, it's going amazingly well. Our community loves it. The surrounding community loves it. We're putting on events at other farms and our own farm. We're selling this stuff out. Everything's going great. It's a passion for me and my wife at this point. Problem is I could make as much money

as a real estate agent in 40 hours, as it's taking me 80 to do it in this. And it's just like, are we being responsible with our time at this point? You know, we've been really responsible with our money. We've cash flowed this thing. And just, and every time I make, I put back into this thing, by the way, because my wife's a physician's assistant. She works 12-hour shifts at the local hospital in internal medicine, so she makes twice as much money as I ever will all the time. And we have three little kids, 11, 8, and 4, and we're just really busy. Are we doing the right thing? That's my question.

Yes, you are. Thank you. If you see a path to get off the rat wheel, you have to see a point that, okay, so like when we started this, I was working 16 hours a day. I'd come in at 7, and I was home at midnight because I would do Financial Peace University with an overhead projector at night. And for two years, my wife was basically a single mom because we were starting this. But we saw a path that we were going to get enough scale that we could hire help, we could find ways to produce without me personally being the only one producing. At that point, one of the things we did was we put Financial Peace University on VHS tapes.

That's a million years ago, right? But, I mean, we found a business model that allowed us to not – because I don't want you to sign up for 16 hours for 125,000, 16-hour days for 15 years. No, I would not do that. Right. But I think you've seen a growth curve and a pattern here. You probably already have some ways to scale, and if you can get a little bit more scale and start hiring into some of these other positions,

delegate, get your life back by you give up some of your margin to payroll to have a life then uh you know you're and it may be another year it may be another 18 months before you're able to do that maybe i don't know where the magic number is 175 000 top line i don't know where it is but you've got to see a path because what you're doing is not sustainable it's working like no one else but later I need to be able to work like no one else. Can you set some business goals and say, here's what I want it to be. I want to hire two people. We have to make 200 top line. I want to do real estate this much on the side, and that

means I need to be in the business this much. Start setting some of those goals instead of kind of, it feels like right now you're just kind of like, oh, wow, we made more than last year. This is cool, but you're putting so much time in. A month-to-month thing here. Yeah, we're doing a month, like every month it's like, okay, we did this. Hey, we won this month. We won that month. And, you know, I have some distant goals, you know, like the, I don't know who said this, but somebody said, you know, put your vision out there in 10 years and build it backwards. That's not a bad one. I know what I want in 10 years.

Yeah, but you haven't built it backwards. I just haven't built it backwards yet. Right, right. And what George is talking about, around here we call it stage gating. It says, okay, we're not hiring a developer and a digital marketer for this product until it hits this amount of revenue. But then when it hits this amount of revenue, we can justify staffing into that project but until but we're not going to hire them and hope it works out we're going to build we're going to gut it we're going to sweat equity it uh some of the pull from some other teams poach off of uh some other resources inside the building legally um and

get the get the little thing up off of the incubator and get it running. And when it hits X number of revenue, then we'll staff into it. And that's called stage gating. You know, when you hit a certain gate, a certain stage, you open that gate. And so that's what George is talking about, and that's a very, very good way for you to have some hope that you're not stuck like a rat in a wheel. If you have that, you should keep going. Yeah. Like I said, this is our passion. Neither one of us want to give this up, neither my wife. not stuck like a rat in a wheel if you have that you should keep going yeah yeah like i said this

is our passion neither one of us want to give this up you are my wife yeah but it's not sustainable it's not sustainable she could she's she's cranking 35 40 hours into this thing too on top of being mom and physician assistant yeah it's not sustainable you can't do this for you can't do this for a decade so you've got me told her I probably can't do it for six more months. You can. You could do it for another year if you knew at the end of that year there was relief. But you can't do it where there's no hope at the end. There's a difference between being tired and being burned out.

Burned out is there's no hope at the end. Tired is I'm about to get there. It's the same exact feeling, though. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I am tired. Everybody will about to get there. It's the same exact feeling, though. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I am tired. Everybody will say that. Yeah, I'm tired listening to you. I mean, some of the hardest working you ever do is dairy.

That's hard freaking work. I had a friend of mine who grew up on a dairy, and she said her dad convinced him growing up that Labor Day was the day you worked the hardest. My dad told me one time time he said uh this is the life we've chosen exactly and you can unchoose it but you need to choose that there's that we're not going to do this ad infinitum forever and ever amen this is not a song it's your life and so good really good question you're a good man you're a hard worker

you're smart people your wife's a hard worker she's a good woman you have a good marriage you're setting goals you're hitting them but you need a point where you say at that point i get some relief at that point i get some relief and i'll give you another example when the book total money makeover came out uh we did uh 47 days i was gone from home. We did like 22 live events, something like 300 media hits, something like 56 book signings. And when I got done, I was like almost in the hospital, right? I mean, from just sheer freaking exhaustion. But we knew it was going to end.

And my wife's at home with three kids. I'm on the road. I'm done. I mean, Total Money Makeovers comes out of the gate as a number one. But we knew it was going to end. And my wife's at home with three kids. I'm on the road. I'm done. I mean, total money makeovers comes out of the gate as a number one, stays number one. We pushed it, pushed it, pushed it. To this day, you know, almost 20 years later, we're still running off of some of the momentum that that concentrated amount of time kicked off, right? But that's not sustainable.

It's not sustainable in our marriage sharon said i can do this for 47 days i can't do it for 68 days and i'm not going to you're coming home and i said i can do this for four i can i can do another live event i can sign another book if there's an end to it and then we get to win because of the price that was paid and so you just you got to dial up that thing of uh it's almost like we were talking about a while ago with the lady quitting her job or letting someone leave Ramsey in Jesus' name, right? I mean, you reach a point, Henry Cloud talks about necessary endings, and his book is called Necessary Endings.

In Necessary Endings, he says you have to end something when there's no hope it's going to get better. And he's got plenty of hope it's going to get better. And Jesse, I'm going to send you a copy of Dave's bestseller, Entree Leadership. It's going to help you get off this treadmill and grow and scale this thing to where you want it to go. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dave Ramsey, the Sour, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us, everybody.

Tracy is next up in Lynchburg, Virginia. Hi, Tracy. How are you? Oh, Dave and George, I'm so excited to be here, and only by the grace of God, I am better than I deserve. Good for you. How can we help? Okay, so I had my IHADIT moment back in August. Since then, I've paid off $15,000. I'm still $70,000 in debt. I make $90,000. I'm 51 years old, and I've been divorced for a year and a half. I work at a company. I've been with them.

It was an amicable split. It was the best thing for both of us, and God has seen us both through. So I'm very grateful for having a good relationship with him ending this, but it was what we needed to do. So I worked for a company, I'm still working for a company for 30 years. Back in 2009, they froze their pension and we got a notice back in September that they are actually terminating the pension, which will take place next year. We don't get a benefits report until March, but I know that we have three options that we have to make a decision for in July. One would be a lump sum distribution.

The second is to roll it over. And the third is to start monthly annuity payments at that time. I have Googled this until my eyeballs want to pop out of my head. There's only 4,000 answers on Google, I'm sure. I know, and I cannot get a clear answer, and I'm certain I'm sure there's going to be penalties. No, there's not. You're going to roll it to an IRA.

Zero penalties. You're going to take the lump sum and put it into an IRA, get with a SmartVestor Pro. They'll help you do the paperwork properly. It's a direct transfer rollover. There's no penalties. You're going to take the lump sum and put it into an IRA. Get with a smart investor pro. They'll help you do the paperwork properly. It's a direct transfer rollover. There's no penalties. There's no taxes. And it will grow from that point, tax deferred.

You're going to use a traditional IRA. That way there's no taxes. If you roll it to a Roth, it's taxable, but don't do that. Okay, that was another question. You don't want to make it a Roth because it will be taxable then. You make all of that income because it's going to be a sizable lump sum you've been there a while i've been there a while and i was there 17 years when they froze it yeah but i mean you're going to have it's going to be it's going to be 100 grand plus in it isn't it okay so you wouldn't you would not take the lump sum no you're gonna get taxed it you're

gonna get taxed and taxed and penalties yeah no you don't taxed at least taxed i'm not sure if they close it if you're penalized i'm not positive off the top of my head doesn't matter you're not gonna do that you're gonna do a traditional ira direct transfer rollover with your smart investor pro in the four types of mutual funds. We talk about growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. And by the way, this is great news. It is. I'm so excited. I've listened to you forever. And like I said, a fire got lit under me back in August. And I'm like, I make too much money on my own to be drowning like this, and I'm taking charge. And when that came in the mail, I knew it was the Lord saying,

this is good news. So I have a 401k at work, it's a traditional one, and I have $300,000 in there currently. Do I put that in that one or do i open a separate one no it's not you cannot add it to a 401k that's not an option you can't okay yeah i would just roll it to an ira with a smart investor pro you pick the mutual funds you're in total control this money is leaving this company and will have nothing to do with them ever again. When you die, that money is laying there. In the meantime, it is earning more than it would have made in the pension. And so it's good news all the way around. But just if you don't have a SmartVestor Pro, go to RamseySolutions.com,

click on SmartVestor. You can get a list of the people in your area that are in our SmartVestor Pro program that do things the way we teach. And then you can meet with them and choose among them the one that best suits you. A lot of people call in with pension questions, Dave, and if you have the option, let's say a listener's going, I started a new job, they're giving me the option of a pension or 401k, we would say go for the 401k because you have way more control over it and it stays with you. Usually, and that's assuming that they are putting something into the 401k

since they don't have to put something into the pension. If they give you that option, usually they're doing some kind of really sweet match in the 401k and the company would rather you go to the 401k. It's better for both of you, the company and them, because the company doesn't have to keep up and manage your investments. Your 401K is your own investment. So that's a good point, George.

Very good point. Ryan is in Baltimore. Hey, Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you doing, guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I got a couple questions for you. My wife and I have been married for two years,

and we'll be out of consumer debt by the end of February. We don't have a house. We're currently renting right now from my grandmother. So once we're done paying off the rest of our debt, we'll obviously be saving up for a down payment on our house. Once we're out of debt and we're done throwing everything extra towards debt, we'll probably be making $5,000 a month after our monthly expenses. So while we're doing that, should we be putting that $5,000 roughly into mutual funds or just putting it into savings? And right now we're also investing about $500 a month into two retirement accounts as well. $500 total, $250 each.

Okay. Ryan, how long have you been listening to the show? For consistently about the last month and a half. I took Dave Ramsey's class in high school when I was in school. So I've been kind of like on and off with Dave Ramsey for a while now. Cool. Well, you're doing some good things. You're just doing them all at once and not in the right order. So if you're walking through the baby steps, you should be putting all of your effort, every single penny of margin towards the debt, which means we're not investing currently. And there was a spot in between. You said, hey, once we're debt free, we're going to get the down payment. But you were missing the fully funded emergency fund. So do you currently have savings for the emergency fund? We do. So technically right now we do, but I'm kind of not walking through the baby steps originally.

Like we've got about $16,000 sitting in savings. We're actually going to pay off the car totally. We'll still have like $2,000 or $3,000 left after that. I'm sorry, how much debt do you have? It's about $26,000. And what's in savings? $16,000. $16,000 in savings. $16,000. So if you took that down to $1,000, that would leave you with $15,000 you And what's in savings? $16,000. $16,000 in savings. $16,000.

So if you took that down to $1,000, that would leave you with $15,000 you could throw at this debt. Yep. That's what we plan on doing. Today? Today, yes. Yeah, okay. Now, Baby Step 1 is $1,000. Baby Step 2 is pay off all of your debts.

Once all of your debts are paid off baby step three is build an emergency fund so you go back to that one thousand dollar account and you raise it up to a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses then you start saving for the down payment on your home until then you don't restart your retirement plan which you stop today okay because i want that five hundred dollars added to that five thousand and make it six thousand because you tighten up the budget because i want and that means you're debt free in two months and uh then then you build your emergency fund let's call that fifteen thousand and three more months then you uh i'm making that up but that's if that's what it is

and then in three more months you've got it starting to have four more months, you're starting to have a good down payment. This time next year, you start shopping for houses and you'll have a good down payment with a fully funded emergency fund and no debt. And you restart your retirement at that point. And the reason for all this is not because we're trying to be legalistic, Ryan, not because Dave said so, but because it actually freaking works when you do it in this order with intensity, with focus. And we've seen so many people do it the right way. And we've seen a lot do it the wrong way. And six months later, they're calling us saying, your plan didn't work. And we're going, you didn't do our plan.

You did your plan. You did your version of our plan, which is not our plan. Don't go. Don't do. Don't be Dave-ish, which is what we call it. Go all in on this stuff. And I promise you, you're going to call us back and say, I did it. It paid off all the debt.

We got our home now. We have a fully funded emergency fund. We're investing for the future. Man, it gives you such peace and confidence. This has nothing to do with it being the Ramsey way or Ramsey-ish. It has to do with what is the fastest right way to become wealthy. What is the most efficient use that moves you along the process the fastest and the easiest? And that's what this system is. And we've used it for so many years that we've

proven that that's the case. And so, yeah, total focus on baby steps one, two, three, till you get there, then do your down payment, then restart your emergency fund, and you'll be in a really good shape. well done well done this is the ramsey show do you love a good day brand want to see the latest Ramsey Show videos going viral? Check out your favorite moments from the Ramsey Show on YouTube. Go watch and subscribe to the Ramsey Show channel on YouTube.