The Ramsey Show - App - How to Navigate Boundary Issues With an In-law (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Anthony O'Neill, co-hosting with my good friend and my brother, Dr. John Deloney. If you have any questions, if you want to talk about your life your money i would love we would love to have a conversation with you give us a call 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 you want to have a great day talking about your life and your money and i would encourage you if you're a teenager at home if you're a college student sitting at home if you are a young person please give us a call i want to talk if you are a young person uh please give us

a call i want to talk to you too as well about your life and i got my good friend here uh who was a counselor and uh horrible at golfing but he he's a great he's not the sport for me my friend it is not the sport it's good to see people in the lobby yes some great kids i know y'all came to see dave but we got me and anthony today so, man. It's good to be here with you, good man. Hey, man. We miss Dave, too, but we're good. We're going to have a good show today. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. We want to hear from you. Dr. D., how are you, man? We're good. We are good. It's a good day of shooting some YouTube shows today. They're going to be unique and different for me. And we've got some great guests in today.

So it's good. Yeah, man. I'm loving it. How about you? Man, I'm doing good. I'm actually enjoying this little bit of we're working hard. You know, just really helping out and inspiring a lot of people, man. And so I'm just excited just to be here having a conversation with you and America.

I love it. Speaking of having a conversation with America, we're going to go out to, where are we going? To Louisiana and have a conversation with Liz. Liz, how can Dr. D and myself help? Hi, Dr. D, and hi, Anthony. Hey. Nice talking to you guys. Nice talking to you. How can we help?

I'm a little nervous. This is my first time ever to call in. No, it's good. Thanks for calling. How can we help? Yes, we're actually on our baby step number two. We're working on paying off our student loan. Okay. off our student loan. It's about $32,000. And we have $4,000 that we have that we're thinking of paying some of the student loans off. But I am considering unchanging careers, which I need like qualifications for. The tuition is about $6,000. and I was wondering if I could use that $4,000 instead to get qualified, get the certificate, or should I just reduce, basically put the $4,000 to the student loan? That's a good question, Liz, and I appreciate you for calling in.

Give me a little bit more information about yourself. How old are you right now? I'm 34. Okay, so you're 34 years old. All right, 34 years old. And let me ask you this question. If you get this certificate, how much money are you making right now? What's your yearly income right now?

Household income or just myself? Let's talk about yourself right now because I want to talk to you about your specific situation. I'm making between $60,000 to $80,000. Okay, $60,000 to $80,000 a year, yes. And if you get the certificate, where would your income go from there? To be honest, I have no idea. I have no clue yet.

Okay, all right. Now we're ringing the bell on that one. Yes, yes, yes. So here's, here's my thing, Liz.

Um, I want you to keep your baby step moving before you make a decision to spend that money to get this certificate. I want you to do the research first to see if I get the certificate, will it help my income? Uh, because at 34 years old, making in between 60 to 80 K,

that's good money. The average household income is right around 59,000. So right now you're above that. So I'm not going to rush to jump into something. But again, here's the thing. If you're talking about, you can go from 60 to 80 K and to get a certificate and go from maybe 80 to 100, 110, I am going to say cash flow that experience. You're not going to stop your debt snowball. You're going to cash flow that experience because it's going to make your sub a little bit bigger. But if you're going to stay the same, then I want you to take that $4,000 and go ahead and get yourself out of debt. Hey, Liz, what's your job right now? What do you do?

I'm a restaurant manager. And what are you thinking about moving into um i have i have a passion for like helping coaching people in terms of like health okay it's basically like a health life coach gotcha so i want you to and i've been thinking of actually in uh getting that certificate i want to pursue that and actually start a business or consulting or coaching along that line yeah i love it i i want to um madison here is is on the phone. We're going to send you our good friend Christy Wright's book, Business Boutique, which is the art and the spirit and the practical steps on starting a business. Life coaching, wellness coaching is a great business that you can start one client at a time on the side, slowly but surely get your feet in it, learn the business, learn

how it works in your community, in your area. And that way you don't have to have such a dramatic jump from making, like Anthony said, 70 grand, 80 grand is good money. Jumping from that into nothing and paying for a certificate that you don't fully know what that other side of that world looks like. And so, um, Christy, uh, we'll send you Christy Wright's book. I love giving away somebody else's book. That makes me feel good. Um, but it's, it's, it's the book my wife uses. It's a great play by play, um, written by a great author. That's going to help you get from A to B. I love that spirit. I love that idea. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I'm working on within my brand is, is really teach young people how to go from a side hustle to a side business.

But, um, I think also, um, we've got to teach people how to go from a job to a side hustle and not leave their job do you have do you have any wisdom that you pass along anthony when deciding between because sometimes people want to change jobs not to get more money yeah but just because i can't like the grind of a restaurant manager that's late nights that's every night you never get a night off it's christmas night. What do you tell folks when they're thinking about switching from A to B? You know, for me, I'm a spiritual guy, so I'm always saying pray about it. And from there, come up with a vision. Come up with a plan. You do not do anything drastically. Do not make a move out of emotions. What I want you to do is write out the plan, do the research and write out the plan backwards. All right. By this time, three years from now, I want to be in that position.

OK, cool. What is it? What are the process? What does it take to get there? I have no problem with people switching their complete roles because I did it. I went from being a youth pastor to now being a Ramsey personality. It's a night and day situation. But I did it right. I did it with a plan and it paid off today. Uh, but with her having that amount of debt or with anyone having that amount of debt and responsibilities, there's nothing wrong going after your dreams.

Just make sure your dreams do not turn into a nightmare. And the key thing when it turns into a nightmare is you didn't have a vision. You didn't have a plan to execute that process. Excellent. And one step further. Um, I love that cause that fits right in when I'm talking to people

about their mental health and their wellness and what their marriages are going to look like and their friendships are going to look like is coming up with a plan. I actually tell people

to draw a picture. Draw a picture of what it's going to look like when you get to wherever you think you're going and that helps you get there with a vision. We can mince words,

but accomplishing that picture becomes real man it really does it really does you guys it's dr d anthony o'neill having a good day with you i want to hear from you 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 For most of us, health care costs seem to increase every year, and saving money on health insurance feels more and more out of reach. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had a health scare involving one of their kids that was completely unexpected. With today's healthcare climate, this could have bankrupted them. But thanks to Christian Healthcare

Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of Christian Healthcare Ministries, they're part of a ton of medical bills. As members of Christian Healthcare Ministries, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other. CHM is the original health cost-sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's biblical, affordable, and it shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis.

To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Dr. D and Anthony O'Neill co-hosting the Day Rampant show here today. And we would love to hear from you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Going out to Louisiana again, we're going to have a conversation here with Jordan. Jordan, good afternoon, man.

How are you doing today? I'm doing good, man. It's good to talk to you all and Dr. D. I'll be pretty quick with this. I'm 23, about to be two months out from being debt-free, following the baby steps for about a year now. Congrats. And what I'm looking at is I've been trying to slowly show my family

what it can be like to be debt-free and what that lifestyle looks like and everything. And I know my mom is in debt. I know my sister is in debt. To what extent, I'm not exactly sure, but I kind of dropped it on them last night and was like, my birthday is coming up. I'm not going to – they were asking me like, okay, what are you wanting?

What's something that you want for your birthday? I'm like, honestly, I would really like to see y'all be debt free. And my dad's mouth just drops right there as we're eating dinner and everything. And, uh, I'm just trying to get advice and see if y'all have had many of y'all's experience with trying to convince older people, okay, hey, this is something that you need to do, especially for your financial future. My mom gets, she's a school teacher, so she's still working, but she's also retired from Louisiana and working in Arkansas. So she's getting a fairly good amount of money, but I'm also about to pay off my car before she is, even though she's making more money than me. So I'm trying to kind of get an idea of the best way to kind of handle the situation.

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Jordan, quick question. How much money did you pay off? How much debt? Right now, by the time I end in two months, it'll be about $21,000. $21,000. And how long? In about 12 months. 12 months.

Sounds good. Sounds good. I'm going to tell you what not to do. And I'm going to let Dr. D tell you what to do. Here's what you don't do. Don't brag about it. Don't tell your parents, well, I did this before you did it or mom this is what you need to be doing one of the things that i've learned from myself um is to just just live by an example you know

um i'm a firm believer i don't have to say certain things i'm just gonna walk the walk i'm just gonna i don't have to talk the talk i'm just just going to walk the walk. I'm just going to, I don't have to talk to talk. I'm just going to walk the walk. You know, I walk out my faith. I walk out my lifestyle and my lifestyle speaks louder than my words can ever speak. And so I love the fact that you challenge your parents to, to become debt free.

But one of the greatest things, and this is not just for parents, America, this is for all of us. You could be, it could be your peers. You want to influence. It could be your loved ones who you want to influence.

And I love your heart, and I love everyone's heart. But the biggest thing we can do, Dr. D, is just to walk the walk and just live out what we speak. Man, that's a home run. Jordan, when I first got introduced to Dave Ramsey, we had a series of cassette tapes back in the day. Me and my wife listened to them. If you don't know what a cassette tape is, you're 23, so Google what a cassette tape is. But that's how we listened to Dave Ramsey. One year for Christmas, I printed off, because I couldn't afford all the books, I printed off.

No, I went and bought a book, and I printed off a binder of 12 months of budgets, and that's what I gave for Christmas. And to my parents, to my sister, to my brother. And if you can think of anything more obnoxious than a 26-year-old know-it-all who's giving out financial advice to everybody in his family. And so here's the deal. I started planting seeds, and just like Anthony said, one of my favorite preaching quotes of all time is, preach with every minute of your life and use words only when necessary.

Right? So you don't need to talk that much. Just walk the walk and live the life. And it doesn't take long for somebody who is no longer shackled by debt to just become this ray of light for everyone around them. And then slowly your dad may ask you in a car, hey, what do you think about this? Tell me this about this Dave guy or tell me about this anthony o'neill guy and then you're off to the races and you know one of the key things i'll tell you this much i was out with one of my family members and i did something that was to this day i regret it

because my motives were right but how i did it was wrong they pulled out the credit card to pay for dinner and i snapped so you're gonna pay interest on food like what's wrong with you and and and and my family looked at me like really and and ever since then not ever since then because we're cool now uh but immediately after that they didn't want to come around me because they thought that i was that i thought i was better than them that i was thinking better and so what i've just really learned because I used to be that family member too, every Christmas I'd give them the total money makeover. I'd give them something around money.

I shouldn't have to force it. Now when they see that, wow, this young man just bought, he just paid cash for one of his dream cars. He just built his house out in Columbia. He's doing this nice stuff. He's traveling over here. This lifestyle that he's doing i want a little bit of that anthony how do i do that now since you've asked let me teach you there you go

let me give you the book let me give you financial peace university uh let me hit let me let me hip you to the game that's probably over something let me let me teach you some things you know but i think at the same time you know dr d we just really have to be calm in our approach, and then they'll ask for more information. The biggest temptation is to impose your values on somebody else in all the facets of your life. Let people ask. Let them in. When they ask, then it's game on. Man, coming up next, going out to Colorado, we'll have a conversation with Jack.

Jack, how can Dr. D and I help? Hey, guys. It's great talking to you. I specifically had a question more so for Dr. D. Yeah. So I have a wonderful wife. We've been married for three years. But one of the more difficult parts of our marriage has been my in-laws. So my father-in-law is a narcissist. We've kind of had a bunch of people confirm that, including his pastoral counselor who's told his wife, who's told us. So all that to say, he does not like boundaries and he's kind of rebelling against the boundaries that we've established in order to kind of keep our family healthy, and that's been a little bit difficult. So I was just wondering if you have any advice in our situation.

I can give you more information, but I'm just trying to keep it brief. Yeah, give me an example of what a boundary violation looks like. A boundary violation, so, for example, one of the boundaries we created is he basically, it's the whole relational dynamic is pretty messy, but basically he, we asked him to include me in conversations because he basically, he's very emotionally abusive to my wife for years, her entire life, basically. And when I got married, I was like, all right, we got to change this around. Um, and so after some time we said, Hey, listen, the way you're talking to her, we can't talk to Rachel like that anymore in my life. Um, so I

said, Hey, would you mind just including me in conversations? Like just, you know, add me in the text message, have me in a conversation. Like we just want to switch things around. And that's what my wife wanted too. Has she talked to him directly? She's tried. Okay. But he kind of talks over her and he doesn't want her to speak. He kind of just, he doesn't, he takes her voice away. Essentially he does. Are you financially, are you on the hook for, do they have strings attached to your relationship? Thank goodness, praise the Lord, we have no strings financially attached. Okay, so that puts you in a great position. So here's the deal. You and your wife need to sit down and literally write out, like Anthony said earlier,

write out your boundaries. Here are the people who we will allow to speak into our life, into our house-buying decisions, into our kid-raising decisions raising decisions, our pet buying decisions, whatever those things happen to be. And here's the people we're going to allow to speak into that. And then we are not going to give credence to the advice on the other side of that. And that's going to be a painful reorientation of boundaries. One of the things that's important to work with if you're working with a narcissist or you are working with somebody who's got narcissistic tendencies is the boundaries development are yours to develop, not to ask them to build for you, right? So you and your wife

together develop your boundaries, hold firm to them. And that might mean Thanksgiving is really weird. That might mean you don't do Christmas the way you've done Christmas the last four or five years. But that also means down the road, you get your wife back. You are able to speak into your marriage, into your relationship, into your home and you're going to build the house that you and your wife are going to

long to build together. And then at some point, hopefully, dad decides he wants to be a guest in your home. He wants to be a guest in your home he wants to be a guest in your home great question i know that's challenging i'm blessed with great in-laws draw those boundaries hard and then hold firm Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and make sure it's going to live up to what it claims.

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Plus, they offer an exclusive for Ramsey Show listeners. Go to ShadyRays.com and use the code RAMSEY for 50% off two or more pairs. That's shady raise.com code Ramsey. You guys, these are crazy times. There is so much you can't control right now and that might scare you, But now is not the time to be a victim. Don't let the constant news cycle get you down. Don't let people tell you you have to take out debt to survive and you better not. And I mean this, you better not pull out that credit card. Listen, it's time to take control of what you can and that is your money. I want you

to get on a plan that will take you from where you are today to where you want to go tomorrow. So for the very first time, what we've been doing is we're giving away a free 14 day trial to Financial Peace, Financial Peace membership. And you'll get not just a 14 day trial to the digital version, which includes all nine lessons of Financial Peace University, our proven plan to win with money. but you also get every dollar plus the budgeting app full access to that then you also will get some amazing things on there and dr d one of the things i love about financial peace is this is the thing that i hear a lot of people say um i am debt free because of financial peace university i'm not debt free because of Financial Peace University. I'm not debt free because of Financial Peace University. I am debt free because I made the choice to take my money serious. And on that journey, I took Financial Peace University that taught me the skills and gave me the knowledge that I needed to change my financial life around. But what we're seeing is that we've helped millions of people along their journey.

But they made the choice. Right. It's like saying because of that map, I got to work today. It's like, no, you had to get a car, get in the car, fill up the gas, drive. The map showed you how to get there, right? Yes. And I want to also challenge people to do this. My wife and I are debt free.

We paid off our debts years ago. And when I joined Ramsey Solutions, we joined another FPU class. They got cut short because of the pandemic, but we joined another FPU class and had access to those videos again. I knew the videos. I knew the plan. I lived the plan. But we hadn't watched it in, what, five, seven, eight, however many years. Watching it again was re-energizing we had new questions that her and i hadn't talked to we hadn't articulated because we you know we'd already been there done that and so it's free it's a 14-day free trial why not do it again if you've

already been on the plan go for a booster shot or if you are kind of drifting away from your significant other or your buddies get together, watch it again. Watch it again. It's not going to hurt nothing. It's free. Watch it again. Watch it again. If you want to be a part of that, if you want to check it out, like you said, it's free.

Like I'm saying, it's free. Go to DaveRamsey.com forward slash hope. Again, DaveRamsey.com forward slash hope. Instead of for binging Netflix, instead of for watching all the news that's going on right now, let's put some wisdom. Let's get some knowledge and binge this. All right? DaveRamsey.com forward slash hope. Going out to Oklahoma, we're going to have a conversation with Sydney.

Sydney, how can Dr. D and I help? Hello, family. How are you guys? I'm well and blessed. How about yourself? I'm good. My name is Sydney. I am a Team USA member and I currently make about $650 a month, right? Okay.

I'm from the East Coast, so I have East Coast mistakes in terms of debt and I am looking to figure out what to tackle first, what bad decision to tackle first. When I moved out to Oklahoma to train on a dream, I was living off of credit cards and donations. And so there is $30,000 in university debt. I'm 28. So student loans, I have about $10,000 or $11,000 in credit debt. I'm 28. Okay. So student loans, I have about 10 or 11,000 in credit cards. One is about to be done. And then 20,000 on a car.

And so I know. And so just trying to figure out what to tackle first. And we're about to refinance the car and, or talking to God to say, Hey, do I need to, you know, bring this back? Or what does that look like? Granted, I bought it in October. You said we, are you, are you, are you married Sydney? No, when I say we, my mother, my grandmother was a banker for over 40 years. And so some of this decision, she was kind of guiding me. But I think I'm just looking for, you know, just more knowledge on what to do because my finances are kind of fixed at this point.

It's a pleasure to be, you know, on Team USA. But when you train, your schedule is just outrageous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have an amazing opportunity. Let's be real there. For sure. To do that. you train your schedule is just outrageous yeah yeah yeah you have an amazing opportunity let's let's be real there for sure uh to do that and so let's let's not uh downplay that um here here are my concerns on the finances side um this this 20k car how much is your car note uh 380 380 you're making 650 a month so by the grace of god i mean I am a believer. Here's the curveball. He told me not

to get another job. And so since August, I all of my bills have been paid. I'm just trying to figure out what to do with this money, because that's completely unusual. Yeah, I totally understand. And I'm a huge believer of God. I think a lot of us oftentimes go towards the faith route. But let's not forget about the practical work side. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And so what I'm a huge believer of God. I think a lot of us oftentimes go towards the faith route, but let's not forget about the practical work side. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to encourage you to you're making 650 a month. We, you know, you got a lot of debt snowball.

The problem is your shovel is not big enough. OK, so we got to figure out how to get some more income coming in so you can attack it. So you're saying, what do I attack first? I'm going to attack the $11,000. Well, actually the debt snowball is pretty much you're going to line up all your debt from smallest to largest. Let's say for an example, your credit card, you're going to put that all first, whatever those are, line that up, and then you're going to put your car in there. Then you're going to attack your student loans. So I want you to do the debt snowball. Now you're not going to be able to put a lot towards it because you know, you don't have a big enough shovel. So what I'm going to recommend is while you're working on your dream and you're going towards and you're running

for team USA, I'm rooting for you, but let's figure out how can we get some more income coming in so you can start attacking this a little bit more because you're young and I really want you to, to go after your dreams. But at the same time, I want you to start working on your foundation so you can have something to build on. Okay. You know, and that's one of the things Dr. D that I'm always saying is I don't want, I don't want to stop someone from dreaming, but I want to make sure that your dream doesn't turn into a nightmare. Right. And it's hard in this ecosystem we've created,

especially for young people which is follow your passion follow your dream follow your passion follow your dream so much access so many incredible opportunities yeah we forget to tell them sometimes that those dreams and opportunities come at a cost yeah right and that we see folks running across the finish line to use a team usa analogy with the gold medal, which she's going to win, right? But we don't talk about how hard the sacrifice and what it costs and all that to get there. So, like you said, put your debts down small, and just mapping out the cost of this dream. Yes.

Doesn't mean you don't go after the dream. Absolutely. But you've got to understand there's an other side of that scale here that's going to have have to give or take and you know what sydney too i would recommend so to answer your question go after your credit cards that's going to be in your debt snowball is going to be the least but figure out what can you do uh maybe online maybe do some online tutoring uh what can you do to generate another thousand two thousand dollars to come in so that way it doesn't get in between you and you practicing and running but that shovel has to get bigger and I believe

that it will so I'm rooting for you thank you so much for calling in and I'm loving it you guys 888-825-5225 nobody on Team USA ever asked me to join so man I'm glad there's some people fast enough to join that team probably because you don't run

fast clearly Sydney runs fast clearly she's I'm glad there's some people fast enough to join that team. Probably because you don't run fast. Listen. Clearly, Sydney runs fast. Listen. Clearly, she's doing her thing, you know, whatever she's doing over there. Anthony O'Neal pointing out the obvious to America. I don't run very fast. But, you know, for Team USA, you know, we would be a good duo when it comes to finances and life. So we are on Team USA. I agree with you.

You know, because— I like how you turned that around. Made me feel better. That was good. We're doing good. That was good. We're doing good. That was good. We're going to do all right. You know, Dr. D, before we go to break here, man, I'm really excited about what's going on on my YouTube channel.

Have you been? I know you're not single. Hey, it is speaking. I don't care if you're married. I don't care if you're single. I don't care if. I don't care who or what you are. This thing is speaking truth and asking hard questions and giving people the opportunity to be real.

It's good. And one thing I love about it is that we're having an honest conversation with young people around money, around life decisions, around relationships. And today's episode is honestly a real good one. I don't want to give it away because i want you to go check it out i want you to go to youtube.com forward slash anthony o'neill uh it is just creating a conversation out there that i want you to be a part of maybe after maybe after the break i may leak a little bit but right now go over there and we'll be right back please hear me loud and clear. The government is not going to bail you out of your student loans,

at least not completely and not without a catch. What they're talking about only impacts federal, not private loans, and you need to take responsibility for what you owe and pay your debt down quicker. Right now, Splash Financial is offering their lowest rates ever. With lower rates and extra payments, you could just find yourself debt-free in the next five years. Visit SplashFinancial.com slash Ramsey to see if you qualify. Going out to North Carolina, we're going to have a conversation with Kathy. Kathy, good afternoon.

How can Dr. D and I help? Hi. I'm 62. Thank you for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for calling in. Okay. I'm a 62-year-old woman.

Two years ago, well, actually, it started three years ago, my home went into foreclosure. I'm on disability social security for about 10 years and then I took on a part-time job to get out of foreclosure and take back my home and then I was just going to short sale it and be done. So I got two of the three trial payments done, and I went to work, and I got attacked by a pit bull. And it was quite bad. And I couldn't work for, physically work for like a year and a half. And I think now I can go back to work, but I'm reliving this PTSD. It's really, it's like stopping me. Do you have any experience with it?

Tell me where I can go with this. I'm seeing a counselor. I'm on medication. I don't know what to do here I feel like my life has just stopped yeah thank you so much for the call Kathy that's heavy and I appreciate the trust and the call so I want to back out a little bit

and kind of wrap our heads around what PTSD is and what getting attacked by a dog and how that replays. And so think about PTSD this way. It is a, um, when you're, when you experience a trauma, you experience something awful, like getting attacked by a dog, your body has a natural response that floods itself with hormones and chemicals that protect you, that, that keep you well. And all PTSD is is something in your environment re-triggers that event chemically. It re-triggers that event with your thoughts. And then it sends off all your fight or flight signals

or your freeze signals and you re-experiencing something that is not happening. Even when you're in a safe environment, Anthony, you can be there and suddenly your heart starts racing, your palms start sweating, and you just want to climb under the desk and hide. And there's nothing to be afraid of in that room, but there's something in the environment that sets it off. And so you're doing the right things right now with seeing a counselor. You're doing the right things with seeing a medical

doctor, if that helps. One of the things that I want us to always think of medication is a way to just simply turn the signals down, turn the alarm systems off so that we can do the work with a counselor to help us walk back from the PTSD. PTSD is a learned body response. It's a response that our body continues to do because it keeps us safe. It's just trying to take care of us. But the beauty of that means that with the right care, um, it can be unlearned. And so there are some extraordinary folks practicing, um, TF, CBT, trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy. That's the best

literature I've seen. It's the, um, the guy who helped train me, um, was an expert in that. And it's a, it's a 10 to 12 session window that helps you learn how to get calm, re-experience the trauma, create a narrative, and then go from there. Um, and that it's got some remarkable efficacy that the most important thing you have to do is know and desire and want and dream of seeing a light at the end of this tunnel. And it's hard to not think I'm going to get well someday. And if you decide you're going to get well and you put in the hard work and you go see the professional that's going to get you where you need to be, you will get well.

Thank you so, so much for that call. PTSD is a demon. It's a demon. It's a demon. And it sits in your soul and it impacts everything, impacts everyone around you. And it's no joke. And so if you're struggling and your body's re-engaging

on things that happened a long time ago, you've got to see a professional. There's a great new focus on post-traumatic growth too. You can grow and you can be healed from this kind of learned response and go get them.

Go get them. Love it, love it. Going out to Oregon, we're going to have a conversation with Rachel. Rachel, good afternoon. How can Dr. D and I help? Good afternoon, love it. Going out to Oregon, we're going to have a conversation with Rachel. Rachel, good afternoon. How can Dr. D and I help? Good afternoon, you two.

It's really exciting to talk to you. Man, it's exciting to talk to you. I have a question for Dr. Deloney today. Although, Anthony, you'd be happy that I just paid off my last student loan today. Come on. Hey, I'm happy, too. Everybody's happy. She wasn't talking to you.

She was talking to me. Awesome job, Rachel. Thank you so much. But hey, let's go ahead and help you out. I'll let you and Dr. D talk. Go ahead. Yeah, I am a graduate student. Just finished my first year of my PhD program. And I've been using the counseling resources that are available for the university to work through some like personal and professional issues. Unfortunately, the university has pretty limited counseling resources and they have such a high volume of students that they can only see me every three weeks or so. finding basically a different counseling plan. And I'm wondering if you can suggest some affordable options that someone on a graduate student salary can afford. I'm prepared to take on a second job to cover the expenses, but I'm looking for the most affordable options. That's such a great question, and I've been working with students my whole career who have had that exact question and struggling to get through that exact situation.

What are you getting a PhD in? Aerospace engineering. All right. How about this? I'm going to tell you where to find some counseling resources, and then after that, you're going to tell me how a rocket ship works. Is that cool? Is that a good trade? Sure.

Excellent. Okay. So the challenge is this. There are not enough mental health resources for the care and need across this country, number one. And we, Anthony, we see this in the mental health world. We need more practitioners. We need more folks to sit and talk and work with people. That's step number one.

Step number two, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say some of the older counseling models which are never push back never take sides never encourage demand that your clients incorporate action and behavior change into their counseling then man you fill up these spots and practitioners are filled up and then counseling is expensive and so where I have seen students be successful in the past when they had run out of sessions at their local university or when they're, like you said, is you can come every two weeks or every three weeks or four weeks and you're in a situation where you need more regular care is every community has not every community. Most communities have local services. That's where I did my practicum. And there are local low-income services, usually full of practicum and doctoral students that are eager. They are learning, and they can be excellent, excellent resources. Another place I would recommend right now is to go to Psychology Today.

And in the back, they've got local resources. You can get them online, too. I said it. Look in the back like they've got local resources. You can get them online too. I said, look in the back like it's an old magazine, like I was born in the 18th century. But you can get online and you can find some local resources there. We are currently here at Ramsey Solutions working on our own resources and our own options here that we can be able to provide you

in the coming months and years. And then the third thing I recommend is telecounseling has just launched with the pandemic. People couldn't see each other. And so every single mental health practitioner across the country I know has thrown some sort of practice online. And they're charging discounted rates for those experiences. And sometimes they're just 30-minute check-ins, which can be great. You don't need this one- or two hour slogging through it

again and again and just basting in some of these old historical narratives. So, there's several options out there for you. I applaud you for being a doctoral program and trying to get in front of this before you hit the workforce. Congratulations on taking care of your, taking ownership of your heart and your mind

and your mental health. That's incredible. Man, I want to echo that, man. I see a therapist every other week, and we've been taking advantage of your heart and your mind and your mental health. That's incredible. Man, I want to echo that, man. I see a therapist every other week, and we've been taking advantage of doing it online as well. And I want to suggest to everyone, just because you see a therapist or a counselor doesn't mean that you're sick. It just means you're trying to get ahead of something. Right.

We say it in the dentist world, right? I brush my teeth twice a day, and then I see a dentist a couple times a year. I don't really, but. And think of your mental health that way, right? Yeah, yeah. What do you do a couple of times a day to make sure your head and your heart's whole? And what do you do a couple times a year to go check in with a professional and make sure you're squared up?

You're absolutely right. Go see one, you guys. Man, it's been fun. I want to thank our producer, James Child, and associate producer, Kelly Daniel. Remember, the caliber of all of our financial futures will be determined by the decisions we made today. You guys, this is The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register.

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