The Ramsey Show - App - How to Overcome Fear in Investing for Retirement (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 20, 2018

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🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us at your show because we answer your questions the phone number is 888-825-5225 it's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it 888-825-5225 chris starts off this hour in jacksonville florida hi chris welcome to the

dave ramsey show thanks dave thanks for having me it's a pleasure to talk to you you too man It starts off this hour in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too, man. What's up? All right. So I have a question. I'm a new listener.

And as I was explaining to the producer, I can kind of binge listening to your podcast. And I think your information is great. And it's really helping me and helping my wife and I kind of just get back on track and get things paid off. Cool. My question is, I have student loan debt, literally right around $12,000, which doesn't seem like much. But I went to like a for-profit technical school, kind of for the computer programming. The school has since been shut down.

The founders, now from what I hear,, um, federal prison for fraud, um, they were defrauding students saying that they had diplomas. They were kind of just misleading everyone that, you know, entered the schools cause they wanted to get the scholarship money and they wanted to get the grant, the, you know, the government funded money, um, the loans and whatnot. So I, um, you know, I signed the paperwork I did. Next thing I know, I'm, I'm enrolled in school and it just kind of bombarded me with, you know, sign this, do this, do this, do this. And next thing I know, again, I'm enrolled and I have, you know, over $15,000 in debt. I heard of a program, um, where they'll, you know, based on being defrauded part,

um, and being misled by the school that they could possibly discharge my loan amount based on my experience with the school. That would be correct. You don't need a program. You don't need a program. It's the law. Yeah, well, that's what my question was, because this program wanted me to pay like $500, which I don't want to have.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I know. You don't need to sign. So, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I know. You don't need to sign. So how do I go about seeing and doing this on my own? I just wasn't sure where to start, because if I could get this student loan discharge, that cuts my debt literally virtually in half and makes it a lot easier to pay back. Based on what you told me, I think it is dischargeable in most states under law, okay? And there's quite a bit of stir out there

about it but that stir has brought these characters into the space that charge people to do something that's basically free so yeah you know so i don't know the tactical steps of exactly what to do to tell you to do what would i do if i were in your shoes i know the thing exists like you know it exists uh i know i'm not paying the guy five hundred dollars in california to do it uh and so i know i'm going to jump on google and i'm going to start finding out exactly what the process is and what the law says and i'm just gonna you got twelve thousand dollars worth of education here uh in other words it's worth twelve,000 to you to educate yourself on this process. Right. And so I appreciate you calling me.

I wish I could be more help. The truthful answer is I don't know. I know it exists, and I don't know the next steps. You might contact the lender also and just go, pretty sure, I don't know, you guys, anything. What are the steps to getting this forgiven because I was defrauded? Okay. They're going to go into orbit, which will be awesome. It wasn't Sally Mae, now it's Navient.

Yeah. Well, get in touch with them and see. Yeah, just say, you know, what are the process? But then I saw process is they're not going to give me the information because they'd rather get their money than get it discharged. Yeah, you know, they're not that mercenary because it's not like you and me. If you owe me money or I owe you money, that might happen. This is just an employee at Navient.

I mean, they're not that motivated. Okay, I got you. Because, I mean, actually they may just go, hey, there's a system I'll send you. There's a process. There's four forms you fill out. I'll send them to you. I mean, it could be like that. Because I'll give you another example where they will help you in something like that.

If you had federally insured student loans and you become permanently disabled and that disability is approved by SSI, meaning Social Security, your student loans are forgiven. But it is a pain in the butt, and you've got to go through several weeks and months of poking at these people and fill out forms until you're blue in the face. But it's worth it. The same thing is true if you die. Your student loans are forgiven if they're federally insured loans.

The third thing is if you were defrauded and it's a private loan by a private school, not a, you know, a school, a vo-tech school or something like you're doing there. Yeah, and that's what it was. It was a technical program. Exactly. Which I never finished the program. So I would contact Navient, and then I would also become an expert on it by reading everything

I could get my hands on on Google. And since Dave Ramsey wasn't much help, that's what I'm saying. But I think you're on track. I smell the same scent you smell. Get after the rabbit, buddy. It's worth it. It's a $12,000 rabbit. Go get him.

All right, Ron is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Ron, how are you? Good. How can I help? I was wanting to get some guidance on my wife and I have been pretty conservative our whole life, and we have some money saved up. And we basically have almost all of it in CDs, a little bit in annuities, but most of it is tied up in that and in some properties, a few lots here and there.

Okay. I was kind of wanting to get your advice on what would be something to invest in or where to put money that is pretty safe because we're at retirement age. How old are you? 64. Okay. And how much money is in CDs? About $2,400,000.

Way to go, dude. Ding, ding. How much of that did you inherit? about $2,400,000. Way to go, dude. Ding, ding. How much of that did you inherit? Maybe $250,000, $250,000. So this money's not there because of an inheritance, basically. It's there because you guys are unbelievable savers. Right. Well done, sir.

Excellent, excellent, excellent. Okay, well, here's the thing. And how much is in annuities? About 280. And how much is the real estate worth? About 943, probably. So you got another million in that. And that's in raw ground and lots. Lots in land. Good for you. Very fun. Okay. Well, here's the thing. the lots in the land have gone up faster than the cds would you agree um some have some not yeah most of them unless it's like unless it's like rural property okay um but and would you also agree that you didn't get a guarantee on that yes no guarantee of principal protection they could have gone down you didn't

get a guarantee of uh how much they would increase. But on the CDs, you had both. You had a guarantee for principal, but you made less money. Right. Okay. So that's what we call a risk-return ratio. You've probably heard that phrase before. And so you are willing to take some risk although you're pretty conservative dude

where there's no protections as long as you think you're going to make a little more so if i woke up in your shoes i would begin to learn about good growth stock type mutual funds and begin moving some of that ct cd money that. Because even if they perform at 90% worse than they've ever done, they'll outperform your CDs. And so that's something I would look at. Check SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com so you can get somebody to advise you and teach you some more on that. Knowledge will remove some of your fear if the knowledge is accurate.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Guys, let's talk about that timeshare pitch that you fell for. They promised you exclusive access to travel anywhere you want. Tropical beaches, mountain getaways, or whatever. Oh, my gosh. They claimed it was the affordable way to travel, and then they convinced you it was a good investment. But here's the deal. Search any auction site for your exact timeshare and see what it's selling for.

It's listed for a dollar with no bids. That's not a good investment. Now, I know I'm just adding salt to a very old wound, but look, if you tried calling the resort and they won't take it back, if you tried selling it and no one will buy it, call Timeshare Exit Team. Timeshare Exit Team will get you out. You'll have to be patient. It can be a long process and it costs money, but it works. They're so confident in their exit service that if they don't get you out, you get a 100% refund. Call 844-999-EXIT.

It's free to talk. 844-999-EXIT. TimeshareExits.com. Brand new custom blinds from Blinds.com are the easiest and most affordable way to give your entire home a facelift. With Blinds.com, you get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the magic word, the promo code RAMSY, and you get the best possible deal. Blinds.com. Today's question is from Sandy in Colorado.

Do you recommend long-term care insurance if so when and where do i get it well i always recommend long-term care insurance once you're 60 years old the chance of using long-term care insurance is way less than one percent prior to 60 so i don't buy a car insurance i don't buy a car insurance when I don't have a car. And so I don't buy long-term care insurance when you have a less than 1% chance of using it. So when you're 60, though, almost every day the percentage climbs. Probability of you using it. Long-term care insurance is nursing home insurance.

Now, here's the rule. 75% of ladies outlive their husbands. How wild is that? I don't know what that means, but that's what is happening. We could really have some fun with that, but we're not. So what normally happens, if we know that statistic then, is you click along 65, 67, 72, somewhere along in there. Papa goes into the nursing home.

Mama's at home. Papa burns through 300 grand of the nest egg at the nursing home. Dies. Mama's broke. Nursing home got the money. Bad plan for mama. Worked out okay for papa. Bad plan for mama. So you need okay for papa. Bad plan for mama.

So you need nursing home insurance. You need long-term care insurance. And these days you get it usually for three or four years, and the vast majority, I forget the statistics, is something like 80-some-odd percent of the nursing home stays are under three years. So if you get three years of coverage, you know, you've got four years of coverage, something like that. You've usually got the typical policy that's out there and you can buy them with inflation kickers and that kind of a thing. It's not super expensive. Don't buy it

with other kinds of insurance. Don't mix it with some kind of cash value, life insurance, crap. Just buy nursing home insurance. It's it's that simple now anytime you're buying insurance the best way to buy it is to not buy it from a captive agent a captive agent sells one brand of insurance it's all they have state farm all they sell state farm they're not going to compare you to anyone else a insurance broker is the opposite of that. A broker represents all kinds of different brands. Now, they don't represent the state farms, the captive brands, but they represent everything else. And so they got five, 10 different companies they can look at for your situation, your age, your particular health concerns, your area of

the country, whatever, and compare prices for you. So, for instance, when you go to Zander Insurance and you click on the life insurance and you put in your stuff and it brings up, you know, eight or ten quotes in about 13 seconds and it ranks them, you know, least expensive to most expensive, and you can tell what, you know, $500,000 worth of term life insurance on a 52-year-old is, right? Boom, just like that. All that's doing is Zander Software is accessing all the different databases of a whole bunch of different life insurance companies that they represent.

They're an insurance broker. And so you're shopping across the whole market instantaneously. You can do that with long-term care insurance. Where you go to an insurance broker, they will shop. You can do it with your car insurance and your go to an insurance broker they will shop you can do it with your car insurance and your homeowner's insurance and you should do it with those the average person is paying for instance 300 to 500 too much for their car and homeowner's insurance because they haven't done this so that's our insurance elps when you go to dave ramsey.com

you click on endorse local Local Provider for Insurance. They're property and casualty, so that's your car insurance, your homeowner's insurance. They'll shop among a whole bunch of those and get you something. We've got long-term care insurance ELPs as well. Same thing. They're brokers. But even if you don't use one of ours, what you're looking for anytime you're

buying insurance is someone that can shop the market, the whole market for you and compare. And if you want to compare it to some of those captives, you can. You're going to find the captives are almost always higher. You can almost always beat somebody like a state farm or a nationwide. I mean, they have to pay the Peyton Manning bill, right? The Brad Paisley bill, whatever it is that they're paying for those commercials. Geico has to pay the lizard. So, you know, that's it.

And but that's the thing. So and what Progressive has to pay flow and so on. advertising, you know, a shopping service across several different things, and others are broker services as well. So that's what you're looking for. You shop across several different companies getting a good insurance broker. You start at age 60. Everyone, almost everyone, should have long-term care insurance. Now, if you've got 10 million dollars in liquid investments

and you want to self-insure you probably are okay you know you can take the chance if you go into a nursing home you just write the check and pay for it that's fine you can take that chance it's not a problem and um but most people don't have $10 million. And if you don't and you're 60, mama, make sure papa gets a long term care insurance because it's your butt that's on the line because he's likely statistically going to spend some time in a nursing home and going to crack and scramble some of that two or $300,000 nest egg. And it's going to burn right there in front of you. And then you got a problem. So that's the thing you want to get to, and the way I would do it. So shop with a broker and start at age 60.

And, yes, I'm a strong believer in long-term care insurance once you reach age 60. Beth is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Beth. How are you? I'm good, Beth. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. Well, here's my situation. My husband and I are both 26 years old, and we are getting ready to buy our first house. So with that in mind, we have no other debt, no car payment. We made the decision to move in with my husband's parents to try and save up a good down payment. So right now we're just trying to pence every penny and save that money. We have two good options to buy a house. We have an option to build a house in McKinney, Texas. It's a very desirable neighborhood. We

have family connections to the builders, so we got an amazing discount. By the time we moved into the house, we would have gotten it for $40,000 less than the value. Having said that, we are looking at that long-term. It's a great investment. But short-term, where we are right now, it would probably put us kind of high on money. So we're thinking about possibly backing out from that and going and looking in an older neighborhood, getting an older house that is less expensive, knowing that we want to start a family soon.

If we buy an older house, we'll have to invest in renovations and upgrades. So we're just not really sure what is the best option for our family if we go with this. Well, you can buy a used house that does not require upgrades okay you've given me two options one's build and one's renovate those aren't the only two options okay you buy used houses that's in good shape and you just move into it right and that the neighborhood that we're looking at for the older neighborhood is probably one of the most competitive in dallas so we're hoping to keep it at a lower cost point. Well, the thing is, don't buy a house that takes away your peace. A house is supposed to be a blessing.

And don't buy a house where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. Now, the new house in McKinney that you're talking about building, is it going to be more than that? Yes. Our predicament is that my husband just got a new job. It's a sales job, so he has a nice base salary, but he has the potential to get a good commission, which he just started. You can put potential on the stove and boil it, but you can't eat it.

Right. So until the potential is turned into money in your pocket, we don't count that. Whatever your income is, 15-year fixed rate, no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. If the house in McKinney is more than that, you just bid off more than you can chew, and you do need to back away from it. Don't buy so much house the house owns you. It's just a stinking house. You can move.

And you don't have to be cool all the time with your house. Just get you a little house and get started and then move later. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major healthcare costs.

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chministries.org. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Marty and Erica are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, we're great. Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Sellersburg, Indiana, which is just outside Louisville, Kentucky.

Oh, yeah. Excellent. Just across the river. Just across the river. Albany, kind of up in there. Is that right, Kentucky. Oh, yeah. Excellent. Just across the river. Just across the river. Albany, kind of up in there. Is that right? New Albany, yeah.

Cool. New Albany. I've been up there. Actually, we did an event at a church in New Albany a million years ago. Yeah. Very cool. Welcome. So you're here to do a debt-free scream.

We are. Love it. How much have you paid off? Are you ready for this? I am. Just over $900,000. It's crazy. This is nuts. All right. And how long did that take? It took us about six and a half years total. Okay. Although we fumbled around for about the first year and a half before we got on the Ramsey plan. Then we hit it hard. Okay. And your

range of income during the six and a half years? It varied a little bit, but we made somewhere around $250,000 and maybe a little bit more than that some years. What do you all do for a living? I'm an anesthesiologist. And up until about six weeks ago, I worked for Southeast Christian Church, the Indiana campus.

I was their women's ministry leader. But because of us being debt-free, I'm going to pursue some dreams of mine. So Dave Stone is going to call me and tell me that it's my fault. He did want me to say hello to you, by the way. We love Dave Stone. We love him, too. He and I do hoverboard races.

I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised at all. You guys are awesome. So I'm guessing this is anesthesia school and maybe a house, too. Tell me the whole story. Yeah. Well, the debts, there were a bunch of them. guys are awesome so i'm guessing this is uh anesthesia school and maybe a house too tell me the whole story yeah um well the debts um there were a bunch of them we were normal on steroids so you weren't normal we had a lot of the normal stuff we had a fifteen thousand dollar second mortgage twenty thousand dollars on a car thirty thousand dollars in credit cards uh sixty thousand

dollars which was part of my buy-in for the partnership for my group. $175,000 on a house that we couldn't sell that became a rental by default. $200,000 in student loans and $400,000 house that is paid for. So you have houses or everything are paid for. Now, the one that became the rental by default, did you sell it? Eventually, yes. Eventually. About two years. Yeah.

So some of the $900,000 went that way. What did that house sell for? that became the rental by default did you sell it eventually yes eventually finally yeah yeah we had to get some of the 900 went that way what did that house sell for uh the south the house that sold was 140 000 and we had to get a 30 000 loan to cover the difference we were underwater okay yeah we bought it in 2005 and sold it in 2010 ouch exactly the wrong timing. Exactly. And the paid-for house that you live in is worth what? About $425,000. Okay. Way to go, you guys. Yes.

Thank you. That's a long journey, six and a half years. Yes. That's a lot of life while you're fighting this. But like you said, Erica, at the start you weren't that intense, but it picked up. Yes. So kind of tell me how this all unfolded and what happened. Yeah, well, I mean, I think we just kind of wandered for a while.

So for the first, I don't know, eight or so years of our marriage, we just kind of played the game that the world tells you you should play with your finances. And the stupid doctors. Stupid doctors, yes. Yes, we had, you know, great credit scores. We were really good at no interest credit cards and all that kind of stuff. And it just kind of piled up. Huge trail game.

We did a lot of things wrong, but they were all very small steps to kind of get there. And then when the market changed, that was the time that we moved to Louisville from Cincinnati for his work. And all of a sudden we found ourselves with two houses, one of which we couldn't get out from under because we had no savings. And we were very underwater on that house. And so I think that's when it kind of hit us that we needed to do something different.

But at that time, we didn't know what different looked like. We didn't know how to do that. And so within the next year, we became Christians at Southeast Christian Church. Wow. Yeah. And we heard of you, a friend. I was asking for prayer requests. And she said, have you ever heard of Dave Ramsey? I'm like, no, I've never heard of him. She's like, go get this book. And so that day I went and got Total Money Makeover. I read it cover to cover.

I shoved it in his face. And he's like, yeah. And then Dave Stone preached a sermon on debt. And he talked about, you know, he challenged us to get out of debt in seven years. Is that the backpack sermon? Yes. I remember that. That's a good sermon.

And so we basically, you know, a few months later made that our goal, that 818 was going to be our goal to pay off everything. And so it was great because then we could back into what it was that we needed to do, what that mortgage payment looked like, needed to look like, what our loans payments needed to look like. And it gave us that goal that we could focus on. and then it's like game on game on with a little bit of hesitation in between yeah it took me a while to get on board um i was i drug my feet on it i you know i'm a doctor so i pretty much know everything yeah and nobody's gonna tell me

any differently i've heard the rumors right yeah I'm always right. I very rarely have been wrong. But eventually. Except for this. Except for about being wrong. Yeah. A year and a half, we kind of fumbled. And finally, I got on board and watch out. Because now I'm the fanatic.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm the one. I'm the nerd. I do the spreadsheets. So of the last how many years have been very, very intense? The last three? Five. Five.

Okay. Yes. And so that's $900,000, including selling $140,000 of that out of the house. But the rest of it's cash flow. All cash flow. Yes. Gulp. Yes.

Wow. I mean, y'all been living like broke people while making a quarter of a million. Yes. We're doing okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was worth it. You're sitting there with nothing, no payment in the world.

You must like, it must be surreal almost. It is a little bit. It is. I don't know if it's quite hit me yet. We did this in March when we made our final payment, and that's still kind of surreal. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool.

Yeah. And you brought the kids with you. We did. And what are their names and ages? We have Audrey, who's 11, Aiden, who's 8, and Avery, who is 5. Okay. So Avery, he's grown up doing this. Yes.

He knows nothing different. Yeah. Really, they all have, technically. But, yeah, so it's almost like our kids. They were just, while we were fighting through it, they got this, you know, they're like, it's not in the budget. You know, they make all those stupid budget jokes. Yeah.

It's hilarious. We know those jokes. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hogan's retire-inspired book for you. Awesome. That is the next chapter in your story. We want you to be millionaires. And with this income and no payments, you will be soon. And also, you're in a position to be outrageously generous, of course, as you go along, as your Christian faith and my Christian faith calls us to be and do.

So well done, y'all. Well done. Thank you. Can I say one more thing? You can. I just want to say my parents. So well done, y'all. Well done. Thank you. Can I say one more thing? You can. I just want to say my parents are here. Oh, really? Cool.

They don't want me to say anything, but they actually became debt-free themselves about six months ago. All right. So they paid off their house and everything, but they came down to support us. They don't want to be on camera, on the air, or anything, but I definitely got to give them a shout-out. So proud of them. Very cool. So was that just their normal course of life or because they were watching you? I think it was their normal course of life.

I think they maybe got a little inspiration from us, but they were on the right track. Okay. Very cool. Well, congratulations to them as well. Yes. Very well done. All right. It's Marty, Erica, Audrey, Aiden, and Avery from Louisville, Kentucky area.

$900,000 paid off in six and a half years, making a quarter of a million. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Love it! Woo! Boom! love it boom that's how it's done right there man wow talk about life life change i mean they

become christians and meet god in the process amazing absolutely amazing changes everything i mean this is this is amazing and you know you go from 900 000 to no debt yeah you that's like losing 500 pounds or something i mean that's just wild now and maybe maybe you don't have 900 000 maybe you only got 90 000 but maybe you don't make 250 000 a year either i mean you know it's i could do it too for my turn 50. You had 900. I mean, let me give you the ratios. Okay. It's like making 25,000 a year and have $90,000 in debt. It's the same number, right?

Just dropped to zero. You follow it. We're making 50,000 and having 180,000. That's a lot of debt. And, uh, wow. There's a little difference because you got to eat out of either one of those households and eating takes up a higher percentage when the income smaller, but just the same. Wow. There's a little difference because you've got to eat out of either one of those households, and eating takes up a higher percentage when the income is smaller.

But just the same, the point is your situation is your situation. Shut up. When are you going to do this stuff? When are you going to do this stuff? When are you going to get your financial act together? You! When are you going to get your financial act together. You! When are you going to get your financial act together? This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways.

Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and a struggle to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to Zanderinsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does

make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thanks for joining us, America. Sam is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Sam, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, how's it going, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, in about a year or two, my wife is going to stop working her job as a teacher to raise the kids that we're going to start having around that time. By that time, we'll be through baby step four and looking to buy a

house. She will have worked for about four years and accumulated approximately $30,000 in her retirement fund through the state teacher retirement system. The question that I have is what to do with that money. Roll it into an IRA. Okay. So yeah so that was my first thought, and then putting it towards the down payment on the house. You'll pay your tax rate plus a 10% penalty, so 35% or 45% of that will be wasted if you pull it out early. Okay. And so you wouldn't borrow money at 35% interest for a down payment. True. And that's kind of the same thing.

So we do a direct transfer rollover. Anytime you leave your company, your place of employment, and you can take your retirement with you, always take it with you and do a direct transfer into a traditional IRA. That way there's no taxes on it today. Later on, you may build up some wealth and may want to transfer it to a Roth, you know, 10 years from now or something. But for today, while you're trying to do some of these other goals, let's not create any more taxes. Let's just roll it to a traditional, put it in some good growth stock mutual funds.

I personally invest in and tell people to invest across four types, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. And I always pick mutual funds that have a long track record, 10 years or more. And in the open market like that, you've got a lot of choices, and you'll find something that will work for you. If you need some help with that, just click smartvestor at DaveRamsey.com and fill in the information about you, and it will drop down a list of the SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com and fill in the information about you, and it'll drop down a list of the SmartVestor pros,

the people we recommend for investing in your area. And you get to select from that list which one you would like and so forth, and they'll get in touch with you, you get in touch with them, and then you sit down and say, I'm going to do this rollover at that point, and they'll help you with the mutual funds, help you with the paperwork so you don't do it wrong and end up with some taxes or something tyler is with us in austin texas hi tyler how are you i'm doing great dave how are you better than i deserve what's up a little bit of context for my question so my wife and i are on baby step seven. We paid off the house about six months ago. Way to go.

Thank you. Genuinely, thank you. Things are going well. We were on track for about a 250 household income this year until two weeks ago when I was laid off. Whoa. And, you know, I'm at a peaceful situation because we, we don't have any debts. My wife's income is enough to cover our household burn rate. Um, the issue I'm coming up against is I've applied now for about 50 or 60 different jobs. I've had, um, you know, I don't know,

15 to 20 different interviews and I'm starting to receive some signals from the market that I may be asking for a little bit too much based on what I bring to the market. Actually, I've never heard you speak to this on air, whether or when you might want to reduce your ask in a job searching situation. You sound like you're bright and on top of all the variables to analyze that. What were you making before? My nut for the last 12 months was $137. You made $137.

So she's making like a $120. Correct. Okay. And what do you do? I am a software product manager. Hmm. In Austin, Texas. That ought to be worth 137.

I mean, are you a senior level project, a PM1? Yes. I would have thought that was a 130 position in austin texas i'm a little shocked uh it it is how long have you been at one um it's it's been my title for the last three years okay interesting i mean there may be a glut of, I can't believe there is. Is there an oversupply of PM1s in Austin? I mean, in the tech field? Because there's so much tech going on there? That is possible.

The other possibility is that I have to be honest, I may have been paid above my skill sets. So you think your skill sets, do you know what I mean when I say PM1 versus PM2 versus PM3? Yes. Okay. Yes. So you think your skill set might actually... I've been doing this for 10 years.

I'm sorry? Some of my competition has been doing this for 10 or 15 or 20 years. I've been doing it for four. Experience isn't required. It's the level at which you think and get the job done. I got PM1s and 2s and 3s all over this place. That's why I actually knew what it meant because I pay them. So move to Nashville, dude.

I need some help. But, oh, my gosh. I don't know. If your skill set is truly PM1 skill set, the way you think, the way you execute, the way you pull things together, your entrepreneurial flair, the kinds of things you need to do. It's very, as you know, you're the catalyst that moves things forward at a very senior level.

And if you're that guy, you know, if you aren't that guy and you're a two, then maybe you are over asking. But I would have thought a PM1 would make that in Austin. I'm not an expert on employment. I just hire a bunch of people in this sector. And so I don't personally, but I've got them all over this building. They're on our payroll. So I've learned a little bit about it.

36 months ago, I didn't know what that meant. So just to be very candid. So anyway, all that to say, if you can't land it, but you could land something in the 110 range or 105 range with a company that's really rocking and rolling and there's upside potential, I would take a step back, but I would want to know that if I bring it and I cause you to make a bunch of profit with my skill set, that you're going to share some of that with me in the terms of, in some manner, that creates increased income.

And so it might be more of a young startup player, and I'd want to take a step back and ride the wave with them forward or something, rather than some big corporate giant that's just sitting there groaning, and every little $2,000 change in income is a major dadgum bureaucratic affair. I wouldn't want to get stuck in that. But if you've got the swing and the jazz going with the company, then you could ride with them and ride your way back up. Prove yourself, in other words.

I would take that kind of a pay cut. But other than that, I guess you just do a little bit of asking of some of your peers, former and current, if you really do have that exact skill set or are you really one notch lower, which there's no shame in that.

PM2s become ones, and so that's where they come from. And what have you got to do to get there or to appear that way in an interview? But the way you presented even here on the air, man, you sounded articulate and sharp and like you fit the bill on that so i don't know but the only way i'd want to take a step back is if i could prove myself and move back up and other than that i'd probably be patient because you have the ability to with your wife's great income and the fact you have no debt not even a house payment and i would just chill and keep scratching for the right position maybe you just hadn't found it yet i don't know if that's helpful

or not but um you don't sound you can come in asking for 190 for a pm1 position which you wouldn't get most of the time so you that wasn't what you were saying so yeah interesting good good discussion thanks for calling in open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life, your money. Justin's on Twitter. Should I pursue my real estate license and career while working on my debt snowball? Won't hurt if that's your part-time job on the side.

Don't spend about a bazillion dollars trying to get your license or quote-unquote on your business. In other words, you need to make some money, not spend a bunch of money. But if you're going to do that and you can get your foot in the door and get started as a side hustle, residential real estate is very doable as a side hustle without jumping all the way in. But until you've got a proven income stream, you don't make a career shift in the middle of a complete career shift.

You don't let go. I hope I can sell a house someday in the middle of doing your debt snowball. No, you work your debt snowball and you work your day job. Hope that helps. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. Blake Thompson is our senior executive producer. Kelly Daniel is our associate producer and phone screener.

I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we will be back. Hey, it's Blake, chief production officer for the show, and here's a little tip for 2018. Go download our revamped Dave Ramsey Show app from the App Store. We're always listening to your feedback and adding new features to make it even better. Check it out. Okay, I need you to listen to this, because one normal routine that everyone does can cause total chaos in your life i'm talking about the simple act of using wi-fi when you're on wi-fi anywhere in public or at home you're at risk of hackers easily seeing every site you visit and every search you're

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