The Ramsey Show - App - How To Protect Your Money During a Turbulent Election Cycle

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show, where you come to talk about your life, and we want to help you in the areas of your money, your work, and your relationships. All three of those areas, well, they affect each other. And if you're not winning in one, well, you're probably losing in the others. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. One of my favorite people to host the show with. I think everybody knows that.

I'm increasingly being told that by people that we meet. People do ask me, Ken, who's your favorite to host with? And I always say, yeah, yeah. And favorite to host with? And I always say. Yeah. Yeah. And I should reciprocate. It's George. It's Ken.

So there it is, folks. We are factually known by some people as the root beer float of the Ramsey show. George says he's the root beer and I'm the vanilla ice cream. I'm not going to argue with him. I got more sarsaparilla. What can I say? One thing we agree on is that the phone number to jump in is 888 eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let me point this out really quick we're gonna get right to the phones okay uh we're getting more and

more calls james the producer is telling us and we've got some lined up today people are thinking about the economy thinking people are thinking about the election they have a choice to make this happens once every four years kind of like the olympic you don't want to miss the olympics and you kind of want to decide it So we're going to be taking on your calls today. So this is your show, and this is what you want to talk about. So we're going to do it, and we're going to apply our classic and timeless principles to help you win with your money and help you figure out, what does my vote have to do with it? And who I vote for, does it actually make a difference?

We're going to cover that a lot in this hour. So let's get to it. You ready? I'm ready. All right. Crystal is going to start us off in Orlando, Florida. Crystal, how can we help? Hi guys. How are you today? We're doing great. How are you? I'm good. Um, I am, I just wanted to know what can I do? What can we do to, you know, recession proof to recession-proof a job or find a job that's recession-proof? Yeah, those are two different questions. Because the first question is, is what can we do to recession-proof our life? And my pal George Campbell, I'm going to let him take that one. And then the second question is very different.

Can I get, or George, maybe it's, is there a recession-proof job? So two different questions. Let's start with the first one. Go ahead. How does she and her husband recession-proof their life? Because I think she's indirectly asking that. Is that fair, Crystal? That's true, yes.

All right, let's take on that part. We got this a lot during the pandemic. How do I sort of pandemic-proof my life? How do I create a bulletproof financial foundation for my family? And the answer is simple, Crystal. Don't owe people money. Have money in the bank and be investing for the future. And so if you are completely debt free, you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Well, if that job loss does happen, it's not going to be fun, but it's not going to throw you into a tizzy either. You're going to have money to get by. You don't owe people money.

So the income is less of an issue. So that's what I would recommend on top of investing for the future and not touching that money and not freaking out. That's what most people do. They have no savings. They tap in, they get the credit card, the HELOC when times are bad, and then they never climb out of that. So are you in that spot right now? No, but I am a stay-at-home mom right now, and I am looking for a full-time job, and I'm finding that it's a little slim pickings. So I've been looking for about a few months. What are you looking for?

Well, the pay is a big thing just because I have to put one of my children in daycare. So it has to level itself out. So anything like customer service or something like that, but the pay has to be there. And I have found a couple. For me, maybe like 18 to 20 bucks an hour. And the area that I'm at, those jobs just aren't paying that. Yeah. One of the things to look at that is not area specific is customer service jobs online and phone customer service work where you could actually do that at home and not have to put the child in daycare potentially. If you have some help around the house, maybe an older grandmother or somebody wants to help, a lot less expensive,

but I would be looking at that. I don't think it has to be Orlando-based to make the $18 to $20 an hour. In fact, I know it doesn't have to be for that customer service type role. Well, I have been looking around a lot and applying like, you know, through a lot of larger, larger corporations and stuff, but they're just, I'm not getting callbacks and trying to get through HR for something like that. It's just not, it's not happening. Yeah. Well, I get it. You're, you're going to have to, you're going to have to hustle and we're going to have to think about

relationships first. I'm going to give you the book, the proximity principle as my gift to you, which will. I'm going to give you the book, The Proximity Principle, as my gift to you, which will do a deep dive and help you think through, okay, what are the relationships that I have so that I'm getting around the resume lottery process? Because that's a very discouraging and, quite frankly, not a very effective way to kind of get a job these days just because of AI and the amount of people applying. And so I'll jump in here on what George said. We need an $18 to $20 an hour job, however we can get it. If we can get it remotely at this point,

it's better for you from a child care standpoint. But I would encourage you, it's out there. But to your question, because now I understand your question is rooted in frustration. And now you're seeing the signs of what's going to happen with this economy. We're seeing the unemployment rate now up over 4%. But the jobs report that just came out this week says we're holding steady. We didn't have unemployment jump up. So we're still in a decent job market. But the answer to your question is the only job in the world that is recession proof is that of being a parent because when you said i'm a stay-at-home mom i went that's the only recession proof job because it meaning you're not going to get fired from being a mom okay so the reason i'm saying that is this uh there is no silver bullet career or profession that if a recession causes a company to lay somebody off,

they don't just go, well, you know, at some point everybody's job is up for grabs. Well, a lot of people gravitate to government jobs because they see them as more stable. They go, well, I'm not going to get fired as a USPS driver or a teacher. Okay. I still wouldn't call that recession proof. And I'm just being completely honest. So what you're looking for here is, Crystal, is you're looking for something that is as close to what they called essential workers during the pandemic. It drove me nuts. And I think to the extent that you could be working for some trades, you know, could you do customer service for some local trades people in your area? Because they're small businesses.

They're always looking for help. I would be looking that direction. Okay. Does that make sense? I can definitely do that. Yeah. Yeah, I've been looking at smaller businesses too, and a lot of what I get is we've had a lot of applicants

or they fill it super quickly, and I'm not trying to make excuses that I haven't been able to find a job. Oh, I know. I know you're not. It's a lot of competition and, you know. There is. Were you working outside the home before? I was and it was just, it was kind of just answering, answering phones. I was a verification specialist, just verifying people's backgrounds and the jobs that they've had previously. I think you need more confidence in the skills you do have, Crystal. Right now you're kind of going, well, I was just answering phones, and I've been being a mom, and that's why I think you need to lead with the skill set you do

have, and I think you have more skills than you think you do. Yeah, and Crystal, I'm going to re-emphasize, I think the small business is where you need to go. These larger companies, you're just another name, and there is so much competition for them, but i'm talking like the guy that's got a crushing plumbing business and he can't find anybody to help take his phone calls but you're just sitting there going uh i can do this with my eyes closed and and you know one hand behind my back while my kids running around throwing goldfish all over the place i i think the small business owners and this is you and your church community, your sports communities, wherever you and your husband are doing life, who's got a small business

that just needs an office manager or some administrative help? Crystal's been the COO of her own home. And so I think you need to look at, that's what I need to do. I know how to handle the operations. That's as close to the recession proof as possible is where you are the right hand and the person who makes a tradesman's life a lot easier. Crystal, you can do this. Hang on the line. We'll get you the book, The Proximity Principle. For the rest of you, don't move. Quick break. More of your questions coming up. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. An interesting unintended theme hour around the economy. We're going to be talking about that and what's going on with this presidential election and things of that nature. That's a little bit more of that coming up. But first, it's August, George, and around here that means we've got some incredible deals. I guess Dave just tells everybody, slash prices in August.

It's how it's always been. It's what it looks like. So we've got the $12 sale is what it's actually called. This is happening through August 31st. So everything we're talking about, the parenting advice, making more money, purpose in the work, the whole nine yards, saving money, avoiding all the stuff, we've got it. So $12 on everything. Smart money, smart kids. Baby steps, millionaires.

Let's see. What else we got? Building a non-anxious life. And your own book, Ken, From Paycheck to Purpose. And From Paycheck to Purpose. You made the $12 sale. That's a heck of a deal. You're not in here?

Not yet. My book is too new. I think they wait. Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's too fresh. Oh. I don't want it.

Yeah. I don't know. I wish. I mean, I want everyone to have it. Yeah. But I think it's a few bucks more. You can still get Yeah. It's too fresh. Oh. I don't want it. Yeah. I don't know. I wish. I mean, I want everyone to have it. Yeah. But I think it's a few bucks more. You can still get it. It's still there.

Add it to the cart. There it is. RamseySolutions.com slash sale. RamseySolutions.com slash sale. All right. James is up in Kansas City. James, how can we help today? Hi.

How are you? Good. Good. See you guys. I just got uh we sold our company here recently and the proceeds are well into nine figures wow congrats thank you we're concerned uh about not making trust fund babies with for our heirs in the future. So I thought, you know, we've got lots of attorneys that are helping us and stuff, but I'm not getting the kind of advice that I'd like to hear from them.

So what are your worries? That they're going to become entitled and they're going to blow through millions and millions of dollars and implode their life? Yeah, what is it, shirt sleeves? The shirt sleeves in three generations or something like that. So how old are the kids? Well, they're anywhere from 40 to non-existent. Okay, so these are not children. Well, I'm not worried about my own kids.

I'm worried about the kids I won't even know, my great, great, great grandkids. I'm not so sure that you should be doing that because you don't have any say in it. Yeah, allow me to free you and tell you that you have no control over what happens with future generations and their behavior. All you can do is raise great kids. Do you think you've done a good job of raising great kids and becoming great adults? Yeah, I think so. Of course, you know, you look back at it,

and you always think you've done something wrong. I'm sure I did. Well, no, but po-buddy's nerfic. That's what Ken always likes to say. Po-buddy is nerfic? Po-buddy's nerfic. There you go. What is wrong with you?

You're not on your meds today? Is that a thing? I'm having a good time with our friend James. I've never heard that before. Well, Google it, Ken. Get a clue. All right. But James, the thing is here, you don't have control.

It sounds like you've raised great kids. I understand you feel the weight when you're talking about nine figures sitting out there, and you don't want these people to implode their life generationally. But I think the best thing you can do is talk to your own kids and go, hey, this changes our family tree for a long time. Let's have a conversation about what we want to do with this generational wealth we've created. Have you done that? Yeah, we've been doing that. And we've got a series of family meetings that we're going to start up with this fall. And, uh, we were trying to planning on starting, uh, some kids programs where they start donating out of their foundation to local charities.

Start that at like age eight, run that age 20 and in each, they would have to decide as a group, which charity they wanted to age 20. And in each, they would have to decide as a group which charity they wanted to donate to. So if you had an age group of 8 to 12, and then 13 to 16, and then 18 to 20 or something, each one would get a little bit more money to donate. Okay, so there's kind of this, there's some strings attached here, and that's perfectly fine because it's your money. And you can set certain milestones within the trust to say, hey, do this this is what they get if they graduate college here's what happens if they get a job if they get married and here's the conditions it's okay to set it up like that good and so you you can decide but i would make sure that your kids know what's going on

that you're all in agreement with the value system of which we're making these decisions is that we want to lead with generosity, we're going to invest wisely, we want to have work ethic, no one's getting a free ride, but you also don't need to clutch it so tightly that it destroys your life in the meantime. I'm not too worried about that, but it is a bit of a guilt trip, so yeah. What are you guilty about? Well, we're in a small community. So you feel like it's not fair that you have all this wealth and other people don't?

It's a little bit that way, yeah. All right, so I've got to jump in. I've got to jump in, James, because I think this is all mindset for you. You're a really good person, which is why you feel the way you feel, but you've got this thing all twisted in your head so i'm just gonna ask you a couple quick questions did you work your butt off when you started and built that company yeah for 50 years for 50 years james you worked your butt off uh did you start off with a ton of money? No, we started off with $400 a month.

And when you sold the company, did you pull one over on the company that bought it from you or the people that bought it from you, or was it an absolutely fair market rate and absolutely worth what you got for it? It was a good deal for everybody.

And is everybody in your small town, do they have a right to live the same life that you live, the same circumstances? Do they have a right to the money that you made? Well, they could do it. I didn't ask you that. I said, do they have a right to it?

No, they don't. All right. So, James, you're a really good man. But just because you've done very, very well in a small town and that puts you in a very small percentage of people, you're probably the wealthiest person in your town. That doesn't make you a bad person. And thus, you have nothing to feel guilty about. You've done nothing wrong. In fact, everything you've done is actually right. Correct? You can make that argument. My wife's a little more conservative than I am.

Okay, well. What does she think about all this? Well, she's on board with it. But, you know, in the Midwest here, you're just not flashy. You're just not very flashy. But no one's talking about being flashy, but I got to tell you, James. By the way, I don't know if you're walking up and down steps while you're talking to us or not. James is getting his workout in as we speak.

He's on the move. I got to tell you something. Hey, James. We lost you, James. Speak directly into your phone. I got some guys upstairs with a pallet jack. Oh, the pallet jack. I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me on a phone call.

Classic. But, James, listen to me. You've got to be the most low-key nine-figure earner I've ever talked to in my life. You're borderline sad about it. And that's just crazy. You just don't need to feel like you've got to slink around and apologize for this extreme wealth. You just don't.

You've earned it. So do something good with it. And you don't have to be flashy, but you can do something good and it doesn't have your name and bright lights around it. You can impact your community. You get to give as much of this away as you'd like. And so I want you to feel a freedom here versus feeling like you're in the prison we are good we're probably giving away half half of

it is probably what we're doing fantastic get a little then just get a little bit of uh a little bit more juice in your step here just be a little bit more excited about this it's not a massive problem nothing to be worried about nothing to be scared about. This is an opportunity to live like no one else. And so I would tell you to do it. We're cheering for you, my man. I'm telling you. Do some things you never dreamed of when it comes to giving, when it comes to spending, when it comes to investing,

building wealth, leaving a legacy. I think you need a dream meeting with your spouse, a dream meeting with your kids, and then once you have exactly that clear vision of what we're going to do with this, it's going to put some pep in the step. Yeah. James is going to check on the pallet jack guys. George and I are going to take a quick break. And before you know it, more Ramsey show and your calls are right around the corner. Hey, George Camel here with a not so fun fact. Every American social security number, including our children's has been hacked and is now on the

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drain existing ones, steal payroll, and wreak havoc all in your name. Not cool. And to be real, it's not a matter of if, but when. So you've got to protect yourself with Zander's ID theft protection. Zander has all the cyber tools to help, including home title monitoring, full recovery services if you do become a victim, and stolen funds protection. Not to mention, it's the best value on the market. They've been protecting my family for over a decade, and I trust them to protect yours too. So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282 or just visit zander.com. That's Z-A-N-D-E-R dot com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins you this hour. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. To the phones we go. Joy is joining us in Bowling Green, Ohio. Joy, how can we help today? Hi. so I have a question in general. How we can change our

federal politicians? Meaning, is there a way that we as a people could institute term limits for our congressmen? We already have term limits for governors and obviously presidents, but is there something that we can do? I mean, because they're not going to vote on it. They're not going to approve their own term limits. What can we do as people to get this changed? Yeah, well, good question. So for those of you who can't remember learning about this in the fifth or sixth or seventh grade, I'll give you the quick answer.

There's two ways that the American people could bring forth an amendment to the Constitution, and it would take an amendment to the Constitution to actually create term limits for the United States Senate and the House of Representatives. The first is, I think you know this, Joy, a congressional proposal. So a current member of Congress on the Senate side or the House side could put forth a proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution. Because this is not legislation. This is an actual amendment to the Constitution in order to get term limits. So it would take one of the 435 members of Congress, Senate, House, to actually put the proposal forward and then it would take a two-thirds majority vote of uh both the house and the senate to actually get this going that's never ever to get it going no no to get it through no it was the proposal one person could do it to propose it

absolutely but uh joy you're right those men and women up there are never going to vote to term limit themselves. There's no way on the state level that we could say, okay. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Sorry, I had to give you the full picture, all right? The other way it can happen is a constitutional convention.

And this is where two-thirds of the 50 states, so that would be 34 out of 50 states, could call for a constitutional convention, then propose the amendment, which would be term limits, and then the ratification process would require three-fourths or 38 out of the 50 state legislatures by conventions to vote for it. So if you said, all right, we want a term limit. So you'd have to have a majority of 34 states would all have to agree. Their House and Senate would say, all right, we're doing this convention. Then they take it to the convention and out of the 34 states that said, yes, we should talk about it, 38, George, would have to say, vote in a majority, by the way. So Tennessee's House and Senate would have to vote for the amendment,

and they would have to be with 37 other states. 38 states, total, Joy, would then amend the Constitution, which, by the way, while we're talking about this, last week on the show, I proposed a balanced budget amendment. So, Joy, the answer to your question is this would have to be a groundswell, a grassroots movement, where the state legislators and the governors of those states said, we probably should listen to the people of our state and we should do this. So it's going to take a massive grassroots movement.

Massive, massive, organized, George. Grassroots movement. And, Joy, that, George. Grassroots movement. And, Joy, that's the only way it happens. And the framers of our Constitution, by the way, they made it this difficult on purpose so that you can't just, you know, get an angry mob together and change the Constitution. So is it difficult? Yes. Is it possible?

Yes. Will it happen? Probably not. Thanks for your vote of confidence. Joy, listen to me. Joy, I want you to hear me say, on the record, I'm for term limits. I would propose it right now if I were in Congress. And my proposal to anybody that wants to take it to their congressman, by the way, if you want to call them, here's the proposal. One term in the Senate, which is six years, George, and three terms in the House, which is six years. Everybody gets six years to do

damage or do good, and then you're out. So, Joy, I'm for it. I'm also for a balanced budget amendment. And I'll say this again, as I said it last week, this is a money show, and our audience is always thinking about money. You vote with your wallet. And I'm telling this again, as I said it last week. This is a money show, and our audience is always thinking about money. You vote with your wallet. And I'm telling you, the balanced budget amendment would be the first thing, Joy, I would do. I would put term limits second. I would like to see the American people say, you know what? We should require the federal government to balance the budget so that we don't drain our resources, our tax dollars for debt.

I ran into Bob Latta a couple years ago, and I was asking him some local questions. And to be honest with you, he told me that you have to be in D.C. so long to get appointed to the right committees to make any difference. That basically, even if he is there his entire career, he would just be getting to where he needs to be to make any change. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And that just left me hanging with my mouth open and, frankly, disgusted. Yeah, you should be. But here's the deal.

We need more people to be disgusted, not with the other party and not with the other candidate, but be disgusted with both parties and their management of the resources in this nation. Because we could argue about all these social issues and all this other stuff. And by the way, where we are, I'm just going to say this while I'm on it. I'm just going to say this. No one can stop you except for everyone in the booth. No, here's the deal. Our political discourse in this country has now devolved on both sides to insults and accusations. When I listen to both candidates talk, I don't hear anything about a vision for the future. I don't hear it. I don't hear about a vision for let's

balance the federal budget so we don't mortgage our children's futures away. What are we doing to actually make social Security solvent today? I just don't hear it. So anyway, enough of that. It's no solution. It's more fear-mongering and going, life's going to be better if you vote for me. To the spirit of Joy's question, the American people through their state government can make a huge difference. And that's how you're going to have to do it.

Yeah, I have very little faith in any of this happening in my lifetime. Especially because in this situation, Ken, the very people who would lose power are going to have to do it. Yeah, I have very little faith in any of this happening in my lifetime, especially because in this situation, Ken, the very people who would lose power are the ones who vote on it in one of these solutions. 100%. So why would they do that? Why would you, yeah. So, you know, Civics 101 there, it is possible.

But let's say this. We have millions upon millions of Ramsey Show listeners and viewers, YouTube, podcast, radio. I'm not saying we should do this. But if the millions and millions of people that are listening to us and watch us were to say, you know what? Let's take a shot at this. Let's mobilize. Let's get after a balanced budget amendment.

And let's take it to our state representatives and state senators and maybe even a governor, you know what, would you get it done right away? Probably not. But if you got 20 states that went public and said, we're proposing a constitutional amendment, we need 14 more. You might see it happen. So I do think over a period of two to six years, you could probably get to a point where it was even possible. But this is about money. And I think the American people should be uniting around money, not social issues. Just what is the result of us being 30 some trillion dollars in debt? That's not just a, whoops, it's a line item. Well, just like we do with our personal finances, at some point the number becomes so astronomical it becomes fake.

It becomes this, like, monopoly money situation. And you go, well, our grandkids will deal with that, which is frightening. But, George, I'm going to say something that you may be shocked by. But if I were to put you in the room with the Congressional Budget Office and all the committees and everything, and I put you in a room and I said, we'll give you guys three square meals a day. You get eight hours of sleep. You're back in there. I believe. We can fix it?

That you could balance the budget. Now, people are going to fight over it, but the point is you could balance the budget. You absolutely could. Well, you know, it's spend less than you make. It sounds that it, but the point is you could balance the budget. You absolutely could. Well, you know, it's spend less than you make. It sounds that simple, but it really is that simple. You know a little bit about that. That's it. You literally could go, well, this is like the Netflix subscription.

Yes. Instead of Netflix, you're like, you're sending how many billions to this country every day? Start looking it up. Can we cut that subscription? Yeah. Is that an option? We got a new feeding program for the rare spotted owl. Okay.

Love the spotted owl. But they're not as important as my kids. Cut it, George. Cut it. The spotted owl folks would like to have a word with you, Ken. You see my point? Yeah. But what would you say to the person who would fight you over the Netflix subscription?

Oh, my gosh. You'd say cut it, would you not? Well, we have to agree on the goal. If the goal is to spend less money, now we got to go, where are we going to cut it? All right. See? You come at it from a financial standpoint, then George Campbell's the hero. I'm in.

I love it. We'll see if we can get George elected. Get the government on an every dollar budget. It's time. Coming up next, how does the Fed changing the interest rate up or down affect you every day? We'll discuss it next. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus,

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We are. I'm not George. I'm Ken Coleman. That's the first time that's ever happened. A boy can dream. You know, a lot of people call me, Ken, accidentally's the first time that's ever happened a boy can dream a boy you know a lot of people call me Ken accidentally on the show

when they call in they say hey Ken great to talk to you that's happened to me too what a great honor it is yeah yeah yeah yeah my favorite is when I'm on and someone calls me Dave

that's always fun you just have to move along yeah so I caught myself I'm Ken Coleman actually he I think you're Congressman Coleman today it's got a ring to it

oh boy nope nope don't want to do that at all let's be very very clear Actually, he is George. I think you're Congressman Coleman today. It's got a ring to it. Oh, boy. Nope. Nope. Don't want to do that at all. Let's be very, very clear. I just want to be mayor of a small town. Is that so wrong? I think you could do that well.

You know, just walk around waving to people. Yep, yep. You're always ribbon cutting at the fair, the county fair. I think you'd be a huge hit. That's it. I don't want any real responsibility. Just let me cut ribbons. Yeah, I think you'd be great at that. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Okay,

real quick, we're going to get in the news and very relevant to you as we speak today, okay? And so here we are. We're going to talk about the interest rates, George. The Fed, right? Jerome Powell. I've been mean about Jerome before. I have criticized Jerome in the past, and I don't want to criticize him today, but I want to point out that he is the chairman of the Fed. The Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve. So here's the deal. Everybody's going, what is he going to do with interest rates? What's he going to do with interest rates? A lot of people predicting. They passed on the last meeting. They didn't do anything. A lot of people predicting they passed on the last meeting. They didn't do anything. A lot of people predicting quarter three, quarter four. And it affects the debt situation that people are borrowing.

So I'll throw it to you, George, the credit card. When people are looking, they're hoping, okay, if he drops it, maybe I don't have to pay as much. But guys like you and me, one of the great positives of the Fed raising the rate is we save more money. That's true. When the Fed lowers the rate, it makes borrowing money cheaper. When they raise the rate, it makes borrowing money more expensive. Now, on the flip side, when you think about a savings account, we've also seen savings rates go up with borrowing rates go up. So if you are saving money, this is a great thing for you.

If you've got $10,000 in a savings account that's growing at 5% instead of 2%, you're happy about that. That's right. But if your car loan is now 8% instead of 5%, you're upset about it. So for those trying to borrow money actively, this hurts them. But guess what? Consumers have been borrowing money anyways, Ken, because we've seen the consumer numbers go up for debt. It's not changing at all. We've seen inflation not cool at the rate they want to because largely consumers are still white hot. People are still spending money. They're still borrowing money, which is kind of hurting the very thing they're wanting, which is inflation to cool.

That's right. So the correlation between the Fed raising interest rates and how it affects mortgage rates is those are the bond rates. So the bond rates. And so when the bond rate changes, it does have an indirect effect on mortgage rates. It's an inverse relationship. Inverse. But he's not directly when he's moving, it doesn't automatically mean your mortgage provider or anybody else is going to change their rate, but it has to do with that. Now, here's some other things we just want to kind of explain. How does it affect you? One of the biggies is employment jerome powell came out a year and a half two years ago and said we're going to start to raise rates because we've got a cool inflation and the way they try to cool inflation

is raising the rate which it does it in two ways harder to borrow that but um what happens is is that companies because a lot of companies are using debt for operating expenses or some type of leveraging, you know, around goods and services, then what will happen is they start to cut costs because their borrowing costs went up. And so they'll cut costs by dropping employees. So layoffs. Okay. That's a big one. The other thing you got to think about too, is they want to see unemployment go up in high times of inflation. And he said this because people spend less. And we are a consumer-driven economy, George.

We're not a manufacturing-driven economy. We're a consumer-driven economy. In other words, we're all just passing each other's money around. That is the American economy. And you need that to happen in order to keep this whole thing going. So when people stop spending, guess what happens? Companies aren't making as much money. Slows it down.

They lay it off. So those are the two factors that when you see interest rates go up, usually you see unemployment go up. When you see interest rates come down, again, unemployment tends to drop as well. So that's what's going on. The inflation itself, costs in goods and services across the board, the housing market tremendously affected. That's the big one, as people are clamoring about, is if we can get these rates down, more people, that we can get the housing market sort of stimulated again,

because it's been pretty stagnant lately. So here's why we bring this up. Just as we took a call to start the show, how can I recession-proof my career? You want to recession-proof your life, and you want to make sure that whatever Jerome Powell does and the Fed, it doesn't affect you that much. Because if you're trying to borrow out your eyeballs, then it affects you. That's right. Because every rate, every turn, the car loan, the credit card, the student loan, the mortgage, it all affects you. But when you go, you know what? I'm not going to play the game.

That's right. I'm going to get out of debt. I'm going to pay off the house. That's right. Well, then the rates, you're going to yawn. What else is on TV? That's what happens to you and me right now. The only thing I get irritated about on the rates is when I'm like, oh, my savings rate just dropped. And that's what we're going to see happen. If you have a savings account, what's likely going to happen? You're going to go, oh, it went from five to four, seven, five. Yeah. By the way, real quick point on this, because this plays into what you teach and Dave teaches on investing. Earlier this week, we saw a massive stock drop, right?

The Dow lost over 1,000 points. NASDAQ was probably, what, 500 points off, something like that. Anyway, point is people were panicking, and one of the lead economists in this country came out and called for an emergency rate drop. Wow. The Fed must have yawned and ignored him. It didn't happen. I thought that was a crazy reaction. They don't just go, well, one economist said it, Ken.

We have to do it. They don't. But two days later, same economist came out because the market has already rebounded. Largely got it all back. The next day, $6.50 up, and I don't know what it's done today. My point is, this is the roller coaster that you talk about. So if I lost cell phone service for two days, I would have come back and go, what happened? Oh, nothing. We're back to where we were. Essentially. Big whoop. Not point for point, but pretty darn close. So all that to say, I do expect a Fed rate,

the Fed to drop the rate probably in the next month or two. And it probably won't be as drastic as people are hoping. It's been just inching. I would say a quarter point, maybe a half point, but probably a quarter point. I see the Fed probably going a couple of quarter point raises, excuse me, drops, just to kind of ease back in because they dropped it too low before. And now it's a very delicate game they're playing. And so I get you don't want to mess with this too much. But what's interesting, Ken, is when it comes to real estate, people are going, well, Ken, if the rate went from 7 to 6, it would allow me to buy a house. Yeah.

Let's go to Jennifer who has a question, I think, around this. Jennifer, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? It sounds like you touched on my question a little bit because I was wondering how the election and

mortgage rates correlate. Specifically, I mean, for an example, some of my friends and colleagues were looking to purchase a home and they're suggesting that I wait and to see who gets elected into office. But I'm wondering if it's actually worth waiting for or like you said. I would not. Are you ready to buy a home financially yes we are then do it i would too that's the only factor that matters yeah i don't think the election itself here's the dirty little secret jennifer um who is in the white house matters to a lot of people emotionally it doesn't matter as much as you think financially. Your mayor, your city council, your county commissioner,

your state politicians have way more impact on your actual household income and your expenses than the President of the United States does. I remember, I'm not going to say which party because I don't want to offend anybody, but I remember as a young, I was in politics, George, and I remember a party won and it was not my choice. And I was probably early 20s and I thought the apocalypse was coming. And then we had eight years of that person. And my life actually got better during the eight years of a time of a person.

And I was like, I'd never vote for that person. So that's happened to me a few times. And so George is right. Get it now. Interest rates are starting to edge down a little bit anyway. You can always refi. What do you and Dave say? Date the house, date the rate.

Yeah, marry the house, date the rate. And that's what you'll do. And if the payment, you know, the payment's not going to be fun right now with the rate. But if you can afford it, you know, we talk about 25% of your take-home pay going toward this, then don't wait on the sidelines. Don't wait for the market to change. Don't wait for someone to get elected because the economy is largely, you know, it's not connected to who's in the White House.

It's more influenced by the Federal Reserve and what's happening in the economy. So keep your eye on the economy, not the election ads, and that'll help you. Yeah, and let's also mention ramamsaysolutions.com slash real estate. It's a fabulous website for you to go to, Jennifer. It's free. We've got all the Q's and all the A's that you could possibly imagine to help make you feel even more confident with the answer we just gave you. But yes, you should buy right now and just sit back in your new house, pop some popcorn, and watch this election craziness. Know that you've got the right house for you.

Good hour, George. Thank you. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number to jump in for your questions,

888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell with me today. And we like to have some fun while helping you out. So let's get to it, shall we? Bobby is up next in Fort Worth, Texas. Bobby, how can we help?

Hey, Ken, George. Thanks for taking the call. I appreciate it. You bet. So, well, the short and sweet version, I'm looking at accepting a job that pays $6,000 less per year. How much? $6,000 less. $6,000 less. Okay. Yeah, $6,000 less. $6,000 less. Okay. Yeah, $6,000 less.

Okay. To give you just a little bit of background on that, I've been with a company that I work for now for about six years, and I've always loved the position that I was in and what I was doing. And recently, I was moved to a new team, and my job responsibilities and functions have completely shifted and changed, so I was no longer doing what I was doing to a new team and my job responsibilities and functions have completely shifted and changed. So I was no longer doing what I was doing in the past.

So, uh, and I don't like it. It's not my passion. It's not my desire. It doesn't fire me up every day. Um, so I started looking for other jobs over the last five months and I found

one. Um, it seems like they have great leadership. And I just got a really good feeling and vibe when I talked to everybody that I interviewed with. And so I got an offer, and I tried to counteroffer to get it closer to what I'm making currently. But the gap as it stands right now is $6,000. Okay. My question is, is that a wise decision?

It might be, might not be. I need to know more. So first thing I want to know is, is it in the field that you want to be in, or is it the type of role that you've now figured out, this gives me the juice, I'm excited? It is in a similar field, but a completely different industry. Yeah, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm saying, is it in the field you want to be in, or is it more of, is it in the type of role that you go, this is a role that I was wired to do?

No, it's definitely a role that I was wired to do. Okay. That's the good news. All right. so is there a path for growth over the next year, two, three? Did they project? Yes, they said that there's a lot of growth, and they'd also mentioned several times that they promote from within for the managerial positions, which is what I'm gunning for. Okay, so how clear are you, and I'd love to know the details. What does the growth look like? What do they tell you? And, and, and I want to know financially what, what is the

growth is what I'm looking at here to kind of weigh in. Sure. So, um, I did ask about, uh, annual raises to see what the percentages are. And they say on average, it's about 3% a year, which is more than what I get now, actually. Oh, wow. What is the actual number? What is the offer? The offer is for $83,000. And you can pay all of your bills with room to spare with margin with that? Oh, yeah. The only debt I have is my mortgage. And my mortgage is like $500. This is $500 a month gross. The offer they've offered you is $500 less per month on a gross check. So after you take taxes out of that... Probably closer to $400 or $375, something like that. Yeah. So if you start amortizing that through your budget, which is what George is

asking. So it sounds like you've got the margin. So again, glad you asked that, George. That's a key question. But I think if it puts me on the path to... We didn't get the answer. So again, glad you asked that, George. That's a key question. But I think if it puts me on the path to, we didn't get the answer, beyond the 3%. I'm talking about what are they, did they project what some promotions could look like? Do you see, if you're on this rung of the ladder when you get in, what it could look like? Do those roles exist right now? I'm sorry, say that again? Do the roles exist that you're looking for, those leadership roles you're saying you want? Yes. They actually told me during the interviews

that they've recently promoted some of their team members to be supervisors and or managers. So what would those positions pay? The pay I'm not sure of. I didn't ask for the pay. But they would either be paying what I get paid now or more. But I did ask them about a timeframe. They told me that they do not promote based on seniority.

They promote based on your performance of your job. And if you have the aspirations to become a supervisor or a manager or beyond, then they want to be able to lead you down that road because they have a lot of great people within the organization, but they really just want to stay at the level of a subject matter expert in their field, in their job, and not actually manage, you know, have any support or anything like that. By the way, Bobby, that's a really good sign

that they're telling you that in the interview process because that tells me they're a company that's pretty healthy in how they promote leaders. They'll give people the opportunity, but if they don't want it, they don't force them into it. I like that. That's what we see happen is they go, you're really good at this, Ken. You should lead people. And you're like, I don't want to. That's not what I want to do. So this is green flags for me so far. Me too. I don't have any issue. I understand they're not going to tell you exactly what you could make, but if you had a general idea that, yeah, if I do a good job, I'm going to be making six figures over the next two, three, four years, I don't think this is risky, and I'd say I'm fine with this. Because it's such a small cut, and you have margin in your life.

Yeah. Do you have a family, Bobby? No, I'm single. Okay. That makes this easier. Oh yeah. I'd say take it. I don't think there's a ton of risk here. Yeah. The formula, Bobby, that we're walking you through is, does it make sense in the short term? It doesn't make sense in the long term. That's the only time I'm for someone taking a pay cut, but the asterisk is you have to be able to absorb it. And I don't mean like by the penny. You're not just scraping by, but if you have margin and then we meet those other things, if we have margin to absorb it and it's actually putting us in a better position short-term and long-term, it's a no-brainer. Right. And also the other part of this equation is the peace of mind that I probably will have shifting to this job that is more in line with what I like to do versus what I'm doing now.

That's what I'm considering the short-term. I have no drive for. Yep. That's why I'm saying that's a short-term win for you mentally and emotionally. Removing the frustration. Right. It's a win. It's the win. Yeah. So I like this move for you mentally and emotionally. Removing the frustration. Right. It's a win. It's the win. Yeah. So I like this move for you. I really do. Okay. Awesome. I appreciate that.

Absolutely. That's one win. We have a win today. We have a win. And highlight, George, I'm highlighting that he can do this because he has no debt. If he was in crippling debt and that $ bucks made all the difference we'd go this might not work out oh especially it's a single income we tell him not to actually certainly my advice would be like if you're in the middle of the snowball no every penny matters now if he was making a lot more yeah we go okay this is going to help you pay off that faster so it's not a you know well point out it's a very good point. I don't know. I always wonder this. Have we ever had a debt-free screamer who didn't make at least a little bit more over their debt-free journey?

I've never seen it. It's almost always, Dave or one of us will ask. We started out at 80, went up to 120. We started at 60, went up to 85. Yeah. So winning with your money is always about increase, not just are we cutting expenses, but are we increasing our income? So we talk a lot about spending less on the show, but the other side of margin is making more. And that's where you've been able to help so

many people. And by the way, you know, I know I'm not the money personality, but I'm the income guy. Let's go. Let's take some of those calls today. Let's make some money. Uh, because we're not, but the people out there, they'll be making some good money and we're here for it. There's make some money because when we make more money. The people out there, they'll be making some good money and we're here for it. There you go. Thank you for the clarification, George. Although if you're offering

a pay increase, Ken, I'll gladly accept. Thank you. I'll talk to you about it during the commercial break. Don't move. We're right back with more of your calls.

This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone.

And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help

and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside this hour, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

We're going to take your money questions. I can help you figure out ways to make more money. I just met a dude in the lobby who was telling us his success story. He's crushing it. So I can help there, and George will help you save more of it and budget it correctly and all the things. And so we'll talk about those issues today, 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi.

If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you can't see any way out, you need Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan built for you. So go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, Ken, we get some questions from our YouTube audience, and here's a few that kind of are in the same bucket, and they are all around this sort of election season, politics, economy, investing, what do I do with my money? So here's a few, and we'll kind of pull back the curtain on

these. Should we dial back on investing during a weak economy to have more cash on hand? Speaking from a lower middle class perspective that does own a home and currently no debt except a car payment. Should we dial back investing? Yes, I would dial back investing, but not because of economic reasons. It's because you have a car payment that's holding you back and you need to pay that off in case there's a weak economy. I want you to owe nobody

anything. So that's part of it. But would I change my investing habits because of any economic factors? Absolutely not. I invest the same when the market is doing great, when the market's doing poorly, and you can call it dollar cost averaging, which is a simple way to say you invest the same amount every month, no matter what's happening. Those are the people that win ken not the people who jump in and out that's right as they feel the market's gonna do or it just did and i'm gonna pull the money i'll put it back in those people always lose in the end well i want to call out what happened this week so uh we had a massive massive shake-up in the stock market on monday of this week um and then here we are, we're crawling back. In fact, I'll pull it up while we're talking. But had you got out after the thousand point loss, it was over a trillion

dollars lost in one day. Had you gotten out, you wouldn't be benefiting. You wouldn't have the recovery. That's right. And you would have gotten too late. So that's part of it. You can pull up the numbers. I'm going to move on to this next question, which is related. Should I wait to invest more until after the election? Again, what we've seen, there's no history that shows us that if you invest the day after the election, it's going to be a win and you shouldn't invest until then. Because we've hit many record highs. I think we're going to see more record highs until the election. There's going to be dips. It's going to go up. It's going to go down. And so when you just invest no matter what, you're going to see your rate of return be higher than those who jumped in and out and jumped in and out of this roller coaster. By the way, quick update.

The S&P, as we sit right now, has inched upward on Friday, and it has almost reversed the weekly fall. So the massive fall on Monday has almost been completely reversed. Within the span of a week. Yeah. So just real evidence here, straight out of the headlines. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Should I wait to invest more until after the election? No, just invest more now and just keep investing. And so how much, when, how does this work? Well, if you're debt-free with an emergency fund, invest 15% of your gross household income into retirement accounts. That's how that works. Once you've got the house paid off, you can invest as much as you'd like,

increase it to 20, 30, 40, 50, 60% if you'd like. But again, Dave Ramsey doesn't change his investing habits during election years or during economic times. We know that investing in good times and bad, when it's bad, you're buying the stocks on sale. You're buying these mutual funds at a discount. When it's doing well, well, your money's growing for you with compound growth. So I'm happy either way. Last question here, where should we be investing right now since the market has taken a downturn? The market. The general overall US economy, I believe in it, still can. The S&P 500, which represents the 500 largest companies, that's where you're going to be putting your money. And we have a split when we talk about mutual funds across four types. You want to diversify them. There's growth, growth in income,

aggressive growth, and international. And that helps you sort of spread, you know, you don't want all your eggs in one basket. And so when the U.S. economy might not be doing well, those international funds will probably help balance it out. Aggressive growth, these are the wild children. You don't know what they're going to do, but you want that balance with some of the growth in income. The old companies, the Home Depots that have been around forever, we know they're not going to skyrocket, but they're going to continue to grow at a solid rate. So that's how I do it. Those four types of mutual funds, that's in my 401k.

They're in Dave's 401k. And so you can kind of see what funds that you have in your retirement accounts fall into those categories. And if you need help, reach out to a SmartVestor Pro, RamseySolutions.com. They can help with that. Yeah, good stuff there. All right, to the phones we go. 888-825-5225. TJ is up next in Philadelphia.

TJ, how can we help today? Hey, Ken. Hey, George. How are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. We're doing well. Happy to talk to you. What's up? All right. So I'll keep this short. Thanks for reading my message. I've been laid off of my motion graphics role in the healthcare industry for almost a year now, along with hundreds of thousands of others in the tech field. Now, I'm aware that older strategies like walking in person with a resume, applying on LinkedIn, or even new strategies like using AI to update my resumes and stuff like that aren't the best solutions anymore. And it's best to network

and have someone get you from the inside. So I'm doing everything I can to expand my network and I can refresh my skills and my career to continue the passion that I love. So that being said, I'm trying my hardest to update my skills to land a new role. But even if I land something, there are still hundreds of thousands of other people like me who are stuck. So my question today is, does the presidential election, can that affect the job market at all? And who can I vote for to best impact the job market for job seekers, especially the tech field? Okay, so the first question is, yes, presidential elections and the candidates who represent a party and then ensuing policy platforms, because both candidates, major party candidates, including

your third party candidates, your Libertarian, your Bobby Kennedys, all presidential candidates have a platform. And I don't think the average person actually goes on their website and just reads through their platform. I think that's probably a good start. But the answer is yes to the first question because these policies do, in fact, have consequences, good or bad. And when you're talking about jobs, there is a difference in philosophy between the two major parties on what creates jobs. And you've got to do your homework on that. I'm not going to tell you how to vote. You didn't necessarily ask me to, but you got close. And I think what you have to look at is what do you believe, TJ,

is fundamental policy that makes it better for the job economy. I'll tell you what I think. I'm not talking about party, and I'm not talking about candidate. I believe that lowering taxes for small business is a fundamental policy that will always have a positive effect on the job economy. Why? By the way, folks, I'm entering into territory, George, that I know is so fun when the show's so big.

I'm enjoying this. So I'm going to say this to folks. If you don't disagree with me, if you disagree with me, I'm okay with it, actually. I'll never read any comments you say about me negative because I don't get in the comments. George knows this is true. That's right. I read them too, Ken. I don't listen to them. But what I want you to do is I want you to actually research what I'm saying because this is not my opinion.

So, for instance, fact number one, small businesses as a percentage of jobs in the United States are the biggest block of employers. So if you were to look at a pie chart of who creates the most jobs in America, small business. So I believe in lowering taxes, keeping taxes at as low a rate as possible for small business owners because they are the ones that are hiring people in the zip codes all around this majestic country. That's one thing I would look at. So which candidate, which party platform supports that? That's just one example. I could keep going and going and going, but you have to look at and say, what do I think of these candidates around their economic policies on raising taxes, lowering regulations, things like that, that make it harder for people

to hire. And that's why you get laid off. So you do the work and vote your conscience. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. Thrilled to have you with us, watching, listening, wherever you're watching, and however you are listening. 888-825-5225 is the number.

888-825-5225. Shout out to an amazing group of people in the lobby today watching. And to remind you, you can come to our global headquarters. I like to say global. We only have one, but it's global. It's our worldwide headquarters. Worldwide headquarters. We only have one. Only one in the world.

That's right. And so you can come watch. We've got a great group of people out there today watching in the lobby. If you'd like to learn more about it, come and watch the show, RamseySolutions.com. All right, let's get to the phones. Alicia is now joining us in Orlando, Florida. Alicia, how can we help? Hi, it's nice to talk to you guys.

You too. What's up today? So question, this might be a bit atypical, but I am 46. My husband is 64, going to be 65 in January. So right now he's working part-time, but on social security disability. And he's approaching, you know, getting up into retirement almost,

but also has incurable cancer. So that's why he's on the social security disability, which has come back. So we're sort of in the area of, we're not really sure, uh, economically with things going on, you know, is it the right time at 65? Like that's a few months away to pull from his retirement or, uh, and take full social security. Cause that's what the disability will turn into regular transition to regular social security. Um, or not really sure what to do as we're kind of navigating everything.

I have four kids that, you know, getting ready for college. One of them is going this August, and then, you know, two high schoolers getting ready to go on to college. So I have many years left to work, but yeah, that's kind of our situation. Yeah, I'm just curious, what's his health prognosis with the cancer? What do you know about life expectancy or what's that situation? It's very aggressive. We've been through stem cell transplant.

We have been through a trial medication, 10 different lines of treatment. He was in remission, just got out of remission. So really uncertain right now. It's very uncertain. I'm sorry, Alicia. That's really, really hard. It definitely takes a toll. Give us a snapshot of how you guys are doing financially. So interestingly, we're not combined everything financially. He's obviously a lot older, has two much older children from a previous marriage. We've been together for 15 years. But the stuff we do sort of have, so I found you guys in 2020, uncertain times, and I'm like, pay off all the debt, got rid of all my student loan, I own my house.

You have no debt? I have my house. So I am debt free. I have no debt. Now he, I think has one or two credit cards. He's unwilling to let go of, but he pays them off every month. So I don't really hop on him on that cause he's not all on board. But myself, I think I'm pretty like no debt ever. And I'm teaching my kids that for sure. Okay. What's your income? So I'm at $101,000 and then through his social security and his private practice, he's probably about like $110,000, give or take. Some years he didn't work at all because he was in treatment. What's his practice? He's a psychiatrist. No kidding. And he's doing that part-time?

Yeah, he's just doing that part-time. And he's still making $100,000, $110,000 doing all of this? Well, that's with his Social Security. Okay. So, with his disability. So, yeah, but he's starting to wind down a bit because his health is getting worse. What's in his nest egg? Because you're saying, should we pull from his retirement?

Is it a bad time? What's in there, and how much are you going to pull out? So at 65, I think if he has to close his practice, I think, well, we could probably just live off his regular security payments, but he's got about $2 million that is just all in retirement, though. And that's separate from mine. We kind of keep that stuff separate. How much do you have in retirement?

I have a Roth, which I just started after I got out of debt two years ago, with $13,000 and $175,000 on my 401k and a stupid $11,000, I guess, whole life insurance policy my mom just gave to me last year. She had it since I was a kid and was, I don't know, paying on it every year until it was like here, it's all paid up, like basically itself. Well, the good news is you guys are, you're multi-millionaires. What's your house worth?

We're 550. Wonderful. So we're probably approaching a $3 million net worth. And here's the thing, you don't need to pull from the retirement account. So why are you saying

should we pull from it when you guys are, you said you could live off of Social Security. Plus you're still working. I am still working and I'll be working for a while. I just, I think for me, it's just, I get worried, like, putting my kids, like, I don't know, I hate to say this, but, you know, education. Have you saved for college at all?

I haven't, no, but I just got paid off my college, honestly, in 2020. Could you guys cash flow it over the next few years? Yeah, I am cash flowing. I did cash flow my daughter. I keep hearing something. I think I know what's going on. I could be wrong, Alicia. It sounds like this. I don't know. It sounds like you guys are separate finances. You're living married, but you have separate finances. He's fine. That guy's, he's fine. But I don't know where the we comes in. Is he helping you with the kids, your kids?

They aren't his kids, unless he's the staff. They're not, but he does. So is he going to help with their college? Yeah, he does help with the college. He helps with the everyday expenses. Okay, but with your income and, let's say, his health situation, he's going to be going on Social Security. Right, and I don't want to take help from him then, right? Yeah.

So, George, there's the – I kept hearing that. I think you guys need to sit down and lay it all out, maybe for the first time. I agree. Here's all of our numbers. Here's what it's going to take for these folks to go to college. Here's what we're going to do in our budget. We make $210,000. What are we doing with it every single month?

Are we going to be able to cash flow this? And if that means you guys slow down on some investing goals right now, you got to pay for a house. Your expenses can't be that high. Do you know what your monthly expenses are to run the house? Yeah, it's really low. It's like $2,000. I have the every dollar. I do the every dollar premium. I love it. I got it for my son. Does he have a will? Yeah, we just redid and finalized that together now for the first time because we had two separate wills. We had two separate everything. So God forbid he doesn't recover from this and this thing. We just don't know, but we've got to be real here today.

And is there life insurance in place for either of you other than this little whole life policy? Yeah, yeah, he's got a life insurance, place for either of you other than this little whole life policy? Yeah, yeah. He's got a life insurance, although he's got two. One, I think, is in an unrevocable for his kids. I don't know. He can't change because that's something like he's got a lot of kids at all. It feels like to me, Alicia and George, I want you to weigh in on this.

It feels like the only tension that you've got is around the funding of your four kids who are in a season of life. He's already been there, done that. And your finances are fine. And you could pull from retirement if you needed to without penalty from his, at his age. So if you need to cover the gap for college, because you wanted to bless these kids, you're still going to be able to retire with dignity. Yeah. And if he's willing to do that, there's more than enough in his retirement accounts to cash flow your kid's college. And if you've got a will and you're the, and you're the, you're going to inherit it. I just, since that's where all your worry is, is how do I fund my, my kid's college? And I get that because you don't want to go into debt and you've done the hard work to get debt free yourself. But as his, as his wife and you're,

you're fine. Both of you guys are fine from a retirement standpoint, more so, more than fine. And if it's invested wisely, that $2 million seven years from now will likely turn into $4 million. And so think about that. You're now 53. It's $4 million. At 60, it's going to be $8 million. And so that tells me if you guys aren't going to deplete this, which it doesn't sound like you need to because you're going to continue to work for the next probably 15, 20 years, that you guys are going to be just fine. But you need a plan in the meantime.

So circling back real quick for you, George, on her behalf, would you recommend that he start to pull his Social Security at 65, knowing what you know now? If you need it. If he doesn't need it, and it doesn't sound like he absolutely needs it right now with the income you guys have coming in. If he stops working and he's slowing down, should he the social yeah i would take it and if you don't need it invest it but still take the payment that's uh and especially if he's not working that's when you want to do it because you're not going to get dinged with penalty yeah all right good alicia you're okay and you got the answer that you're looking for there so uh wishing him the best wishing you absolutely the best what a tough journey journey. Hang in there. You seem like a really strong lady.

And we're sorry for what you and your husband are going through. All right, don't move, folks. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way. And that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor

are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs.

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George Campbell. Yes. George Ramsey is with me today. Is there a more American name? I'm George Ramsey. Oh, man, that's funny how the mind can just betray you at times. Oh, boy. Fun question for you, George Ramsey.

Hit me. This is from our overall Ramsey community, right? We've got people all over the place, different platforms, and we get great questions. We love when you send them in. So this one came in. What actions can everyday people take in local politics or voting in elections to affect positive change with respect to personal finance? For example, anything to look for in county treasurers or local officials or ballot initiatives

where our votes and voices might carry more sway? Well, I got to tell you, this is a question. This gives Ken the juice. I get a little excited. Truthfully, if you want to affect politics, local is best. The more local you get, the more impact you can have. Well, the answer to the question is absolutely that. Tip O'Neill, legendary Speaker of the House, who was a political rival of Ronald Reagan, famously said all politics are local. So I will quote him, and he's absolutely right. And what he's talking about is that ultimately that's where things move, the needle moves.

And so to this question, everyday people need to be holding their local representatives, everything from, yes, your county treasurer, county commissioners, your mayors, the people that are running for elected office, and even those who aren't elected. But if there are public forums and you are looking at your county budget, I mean, if George cared, I could see him like pulling up the Williamson County budget and diving in. You might do that this weekend. I think you probably should. You probably find some things. And so you, in fact, can move the needle there, and it's a lot easier to mobilize people. It's a lot easier to vote someone in and out on a local level because you're talking about a small amount of votes.

And so what action can everyday people take? It's to vote and voice what you believe is right. That simple. Voice is in your public forums, showing up at county commissioner meetings where you have open forums and you can speak. And then the idea of organizing rallies and things of that you know, there's a lot of things that the average person doesn't pay attention to that are decided upon right there in their zip code. You know, things that affect their everyday budgets, like trash services, water, utilities. You get real local. I remember that we had, you know, some in our neighborhood, Ken, there was some issues and we started going, all right, we're going to vote for a new alderman. And that became the thing of the alderman. That's who's going to help us accomplish this. A lot of effect on some of

the household costs and the cost of living. You know, when you hear that phrase, cost of living, you know, like, well, I'm moving from this place to this place, the cost of living is a lot lower. Well, again, that is driven by a lot of your local policies and local politicians. And then the next level up is your state house representatives or state senators. And you can find all the contact information online and they're pretty easily accessible. They'll probably respond to you. And so it's worth being the squeaky wheel if you want to see some change. So three things, Be informed. Voice your beliefs and feelings. And make sure you're voting.

Those are the three things you can do. Saratoga Springs, New York is where Christy joins us. Christy, how can we help? Hi, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. You bet. We're having a blast. What's going on?

Yeah, sounds like it. So I have a couple questions, basically. So I've read the book. I feel like I'm debt-free right now, but I have this solar panel debt. For one, I just want to know, can I just lump that into like, oh, it's part of your mortgage now, or is that still just it's a debt? It's a debt. I hate to turn your feelings down.

I wish your debt freedom was just a feeling. That would be wonderful. But yeah, Christy, this is a debt. that, it'll have about $32,000 left on it. Are you going to have the money? Is this like a lump sum payment you need to make? No, that's over 300 months after April 13th. Okay. All right. So how aggressively can you attack it? So I can, so that's the question.

So I have this inheritance that I got, not me, but my husband. He got about $100,000 from his grandparents. We've already put $50,000 of that towards our kids for their 529s, and we paid off my husband's student loan debt. And then we just paid off like onesie-twosie things. So I have about $30,000 left of that. Okay. And then I have $15,000 in an investment account.

That's non-retirement. The money, well, retirement I have separate. I have, let's see. So this is simple. It looks like. So you're saying should you cash out the investments and should you take the 30 that's left from the inheritance and go ahead and just pay off the solar debt?

Yeah, that's my question. But like my husband is more concerned about it because we're going to be moving in less than a year. And guess who doesn't care? The solar panel company doesn't care. You still have to pay them. That's true. And so regardless of when you're moving and if it doesn't happen, the debt goes with you. And so you need to just go ahead and pay it off.

And it stinks because solar is a long-term thing. You're not going to see an increase of $50,000 when you sell the house with whatever the solar costs. And so you didn't ROI on this. And it's one of the, you know, the downsides of jumping into something like this, especially with debt, but I would pay it off and pay it off today. You'll, you might have capital gains on the investment when you sell those off. So be aware of what you're going to own taxes there. Okay. But I would just have a clean slate and then build your... But then I kind of lose any kind of liquid money I have for, like, closing costs.

For moving? Yes. Well, how soon are you moving? This time next year. So you have a year to save up closing costs. Okay. So, and guess what? You have freed up that payment you were making to the solar company, right?

The solar loan? Yeah. So you're going to be just fine. What's your household income? We bring in $11,000 a month. And you can't save up for closing costs? No, we can. Making $11,000 a month? Okay. I'm just playing with you to get behind.

Do I put the money towards investment, or do I put it towards the closing costs, or do I just kind of pay off that debt? Pay off the debt, build an emergency fund, because you guys don't have one right now, three to six months of expenses, and then you'll still have time to save up closing costs. Okay. You have a year of just being on a budget, living on less than you make, taking control of that $11,000 you guys have coming in. So you're going to be just fine. But I would choose freedom.

You've already used the inheritance to pay off other debt. I see this debt no differently. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mostly just wanted to know if it's, like, can I count it as paying off a mortgage? But, yeah, I agree. With a 6% interest rate, it's kind of can I count it as paying off a mortgage? But yeah, I agree with a 6% interest

rate. It's kind of scaring me a little bit. So yeah, regardless of interest, I'd get rid of it. And it's not part of the mortgage. And so we're not going to lump it with baby step six. By the way, you're not even another little fun reason to pay it off. You're not really realizing all of that until you've paid it off. All the savings that these people think they're getting from solar panels. Takes a long time to break even. Takes a long time to break even. So go ahead and get it out of your life.

It really does. Yeah. Swig a Pepto-Bismol and then pay it off. It'll be fine. Yeah, it's not fun. All right, for all of you who are listening to The Ramsey Show on YouTube, watching on YouTube rather, and listening on podcast, this show is about to end, but we've got some more calls coming up in the Ramsey Network

mobile app. The Ramsey Network app is the only place to finish full episodes of the Ramsey Show. Some exclusivity over there. And those of you that are listening on radio, doesn't affect you at all, stay right there. More of it coming up. And for those of you that want to jump on over to the app, you need to. Two ways to get it. Click on the link in the show notes, and you can search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. Don't miss what's coming up next. George thinks he's going to be really great on a couple of calls that are lined up. He's already feeling a little frisky, so you don't want to miss that. The only place to get it, the Ramsey Network app.

Go finish it right now on the app. See ya. This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'll help you win at work. In other words, I'm the grow your income guy, and he's George Campbell. He's the get out of debt, get the budget in shape, save, invest guy, and we work together on this. We'll take your calls today, 888-825-5225. Calgary, Alberta, Canada is where Sam is waiting for us. Sam, how can we help? Hi, how are you?

We're having a blast. What's going on? That's great. Great to hear. So basically, I'll get straight to it. My dad's a big real estate guy. He has five properties. He rents them out to people. Then when he sees that I appreciate, he sells them off. So he did come up to me and he told me about a condo that's 390,000 guaranteed rent for years. And the down payment is going to be 50,000 from the college funds that he prepared for me and a bit of my student loans. Going forward, my student loans will support the 5% that I like% payments until the condo is all built up. My student loans are federal, so it's a 0% interest.

This isn't a great spot, and my dad's pretty good at it, and I was wondering if I'm being essentially stupid or if I'm doing something good. Oh, that was a lot to digest, Sam. A lot going on here. Sorry about that. So you're essentially saying, should I use my student loans, which were meant to pay for college,

to instead buy a condo? That I can't really afford, but dad's going to take care of it and it's guaranteed to not lose. Yeah. I'm going to go a hard hard no this is just one man's opinion i don't think you're gonna take it i think you're very starry-eyed about what's going to happen you're very sure of it yeah um i think your dad has not been in real estate long enough to get burned because clearly he's going this is all gonna work out i'm gonna leverage that up to my eyeballs and uh i know a guy named Dave Ramsey who tried this back in his day.

Didn't work out for him. And so I think your dad's probably, he's probably a very brilliant guy, and he's done well for himself. I don't think now is the time for you to become baby real estate mogul. And also, how are we paying for college if you're going to use the money for the condo? So he's going to use my student loan, no, like college fund, whatever you guys call it, and that's going to help pay for the dad and I payment, and then a bit of my student loans will go towards the payments until it is full. So your dad is using you as an investor, essentially.

Yes, because he said that. With federal student loan money. This feels like, I don't know what the rules are in Canada, man, but this smells of fraud. Doesn't feel legal to me. Oh, okay. I'm not here to give legal advice. You should consult an attorney. But on face value, if I'm the government going, hey, student, go to college.

Here's a 0% loan. He went, thanks, Uncle Sam or whoever it is, Uncle, over there. And you went, I'm going to use it to be a real estate mogul. Pretty sure they'd have problems with that and go, this money is due immediately. Like, I'm nervous the mountains are showing up on horses, the front yard, the whole nine yards. You know, they don't mess around up there in Canada. Why are you so gung-ho on doing this right now? So I actually wasn't, and the only reason I was trying to make myself vulnerable so

I could kind of get the more strict side of you guys, but I was also taken slightly aback because coming out of college with this amount of loans is a bit crazy, eh? Yes. Yeah, and it's crazy that your dad, George nailed this. Speaking of being vulnerable, your dad needs to answer some hard questions from you. Yeah, that's what I was saying, too. You should say no, dad dad you should say no to this this is awful go why in the world would you talk me into this um you need to do your own homework

you can look up the policies around student loans in canada yeah he knows that can't be fine i just think it's weird it's he's put you in a weird position. George nailed it. Honestly, it feels like greed for a dad to use his son as a pawn to go, hey, son, we'll figure out college. I'm going to rob your college fund to use to build my real estate portfolio. One day you'll inherit it. The whole thing feels weird. He's going to put my name on it. Your name on what? Your name can't be on the mortgage. Okay.

You have no money. What lender is going to give an 18-year-old a mortgage? Yeah, that's something. So you're saying he's going to put your name, your name is going to be on the deed, but his name is going to be on the mortgage? He's going to take all the risk and give you all the reward? Yeah, that's what I'm saying to try to get me ahead or something. But again, there's this much debt out of four years of being an engineering student

sounds pretty crazy and stupid, too. Okay, so the good news is you called us thinking this was crazy and stupid, and we're telling you the same thing. So we're in agreement. Don't do this. Don't allow him to do this. Are you going to stand up to this? I'm definitely going to stand up for this, actually, because I've done my research,

and even if I'm out, when I start cash flowing and pay off all my loans and debts, I'll definitely be able to stack that up and definitely be able to start from there rather than taking such a huge risk, something happening to our family, and we end up defaulting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this house of cards could come crumbling down and I think your future is too bright to be getting involved in this shady real estate mogul business at this age. What are you going to go study? Bachelor of Science in Engineering.

Okay, so you want to be an engineer. Electrical. Yeah, and I'm doing it through the Canadian Armed Forces. Nice. Does that help financially? Yes, it does, but I'm still having it in. I'm still having the thought of me paying it off in my back pocket just to keep myself living below my means

and being as cheap as possible for now. All right. So you're able to go through all this with no debt? So why are you taking the student loan? So just in case I don't get it. You don't get what? The offer. What offer are you talking about?

To study with the Canadian Armed Forces and eventually work with them. What's the timeline on finding an answer out? Finding... Will you know whether you're in or out? 25 seconds. Like in a few days? Yeah. Let's hold the phone on taking out a student loan and let's just go. I'm going to, if you take that off the table, Sam, this amazing things happen.

You don't go into debt. You get creative. You find other solutions. You work harder to get that offer. And so that's what I'm telling you to do, and I know it's controversial, and your dad's going to have issues with it, but guess what? I don't know if this relationship's going to be a beautiful father-son relationship when he's using his son as a pawn in a real estate scheme.

Yeah, that's what I'm a bit worried about too. That's for you and dad to figure out, and I hope it works out. But I'm glad you called. You could smell this was fishy, and you went, let me call two random guys in the America to see what they think. The America? The America. Is that how you're referring to it? Yeah.

I'll tell you what. We can't do a lot of things, but we can smell a fishy situation. And a Canadian fish at that. Is there a difference? Wild caught. Oh, George. George, Discovery Channel Camel. Here to entertain.

He is here for all of us. Don't move. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.

888-825-5225. Pensacola, Florida is where we're going to go next. Ben is joining us there. Ben, how can we help today? Hey, guys. How you doing? Good. What's going on?

I just got a question here. I'm in the middle of baby step two. Got a pile of debt here. I've got about 80 grand in consumer debt. Just over half, like 43 is credit card debt. Spread over a couple of cards. And I've got my local credit union. They're offering me a consolidation loan for 30. So they'd take $30 of that.

It'd basically lower my monthly payment on those cards by half, which would free up about $600 a month to go back into the snowball. Okay. How many credit cards are we talking that would get lumped into this consolidation loan? Two for sure. I might be able to squeeze part of the third on there too. Okay.

What got you into $43,000 in credit card debt? What gets everyone else in $43,000 a credit card? Bad decisions. How about that, George? Back at you. There it is. So here's the take on consolidation loans. Generally, it's a hard no. It doesn't do anything. People think they did something because they did one of these consolidation loans. The other thing it does is it kind of makes it more difficult to

do the snowball because you're taking smaller loans and you're lumping it into one mountain that you have to pay now, which can take longer. You don't get the progress, the kind of psychological win. So that's the take. Now, that being said, if you're already gazelle intense and you're going to free up the 600 and you're going to attack this with vigor, then we would say, okay, if it's not going to extend your payment terms, it's going to lower your payment, lower your rate, then it could be an okay idea. Okay. But my question is, are you very gazelle intense right now? Have you already slashed every expense?

Have you already taken on three jobs? What are you actually doing to attack this debt other than find more debt products? We've definitely paid off about 25 this year already. Good. Um, I've got, I picked up a side gig that I swear is working me like three jobs. So I'm bringing an extra 45, 50 this year from that. Okay. Um. What's the household income?

Uh, salary is 160 between my wife and I. Uh, this side gig, I'm not factoring that in. That's all that money. Okay. So you're making $160,000. How fast are you going to pay off $83,000? Oh, man. With the side gig, I'm hoping by the end of next year.

I'm thinking 18 months max. That's all about right. So here's your next step for homework. You're going to actually sit down with your wife. You're going to make a budget, and then you're going to go, okay, how much can we throw extra? How much are we committing to throw extra in order to pay off $83,000 in 18 months? And the math is pretty simple. That turns into we need to put about $7,000 a month away.

Can you guys do that? That would be in one year. If you could put seven grand toward the debt, it's gone in one year. And if you could do 4,600, it's gone in 18 months. And so I would set a goal that scares you just a little bit, where you go, whew, we're going to have to cut some things. That side job is now imperative. And so if you do all of that, this can be an okay idea. I don't condone consolidation loans. In your case, if it's really going to be the thing that helps you guys get out of debt a little faster, that's fine. But it's not going to be the thing that you're going to go, man, that consolidation loan really solved everything for

us. It's the guy in the mirror that's the solution. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I agree. I hope that helps. It's always scary when the solution is another debt product. So that's why I always have a lot of hesitation with these consolidation loans. The only time it could make sense sometimes with student loans, some of these scummy student loan companies consolidating is a good move. Yeah, absolutely. Jack is up next in Baltimore, Maryland. Jack, how can we help today? Hey, guys. Thanks for up next in Baltimore, Maryland. Jack, how can we help today? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Hey, so I'll try to keep this succinct. My fiance and I are getting married in December. Congrats. And thank you, thank you. And we have two children, three and one. And we've been looking around at houses all this year with the plan to, you know, start seriously looking next year and make a move and buy. And then we found a builder in a local community. Could be the dream home, the price is right, good acreage and everything.

The only problem is they only have a couple lots left. So I'm wondering if we should accelerate our timeline for what would be a 10 out of 10 dream home, we both agree, or continue to wait and then make a move after we're already married. What's your financial position? We're good. I think so. We are completely debt-free. We have about $60,000 in cash. I own the home we're currently living in.

I owe about $140,000. It's worth $300,000 or $310,000 probably. And my parents have agreed to match us for cash towards the house up to $50,000. So if we put an extra $50,000 into the house, they'll match that. Wow. So you would sell the current home? Correct. Before getting the new one, You have $60,000 cash. Does that include your emergency fund? It does not. And so we're going to be able to save another $20,000, $25,000 between now and may of next year when the house is actually built. So that would replenish our $20,000 emergency fund. Okay. So you'd be in a real good spot because you'd walk away with probably $150 from your home sale plus your $60 in cash. That's $210 plus however much you can save plus $50 from your parents. Yeah. So I'm looking all in. We'd be very, very likely to put down $250 on a property that costs $520. Okay. I mean, that sounds reasonable. And by then, you guys will have been married for how long?

We will have been married for four months. So we'll be married here in December, and then the house will be done by May or June of next year. Okay. I mean, I'm not getting any huge red flags. The one thing I would caution against is calling anything the dream home, the forever home, because you get in, and then there's still problems. And I just hate the way they they didn't get this right and well this new neighborhood it's got this and so just know that it may not be the forever thing and that's okay but if you guys are going to stay there for at least you know five years this will be a wise decision it should ROI you know the neighborhood's

better than I do in your area and if you the builder, do some vetting because builders are great at selling, and they're not always great once you sign that contract. And there's always the nightmare stories. Right. Well, that'll make her very happy because I was just concerned with the timeline of things moving, and, you know, we still have $5,000 to pay for the wedding, and having two kids, it's just like we got a lot going on. I feel like you saying that this will make her really happy and I can feel the relief coming off of you right now, man.

So yeah, just, yeah, there's a lot, you're making a lot of decisions right now because we, we did this kind of a similar thing. We had signed a contract to build and we were trying to plan for the wedding. And so there was a lot of decision. It was like, what grout color do you want in the kitchen? And then what is the centerpiece on the, and I was like, one more decision, I'm going to snap. And so you just got to know it's going to be a stressful season. You will survive. You guys have a great income together, I assume. What's going to be your household income? So I'm self-employed. I'll make 80 to 100 profit. She's making 40 right now. Okay. So I have a healthy six figure income.

I'm not worried about saving five grand when you guys are debt free with an emergency fund. You could save that in the next month. Oh no, I'm just saying we, that's cashflow going out before the end of the, you know, before we get married, we still owe that. Um, yeah, I would start planning and just, I would sit down together and go, let's start counting the costs. What's left for the wedding. What do we need for this house? What's the down payment for the house? What are they requiring for the earnest money, the deposit? What are closing costs going to be? And then start forecasting it out, just like you would with your small business. Okay. Yeah, that's what we've been doing and all the numbers are adding up. She knows I listen to you guys all the time and I was going

back and forth and being a nervous wreck. She was like, we'll just call Dave Ramsey. That's beautiful. Well, here's what Dave would say. He said, well, you probably should wait a year just to know how close you want to live to your in-laws. That's the idea. There's a lot with marriage. You want to be together for a little while before you jump into a big decision, but it doesn't sound like any of this is

impulsive. No, not at all. You nailed it. It's just the emotion of all these things that are just swirling. A lot of change at once. When one plate might fall, you feel like, oh, would there be a chain reaction? And so great advice, George. Thanks for the call, Jack. Excited for you. So good stuff there. All right, quick break. And then George and I will be back to answer your calls. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Thrilled to have you with us this hour. Let's go to Travis in Tampa, Florida. Travis, how can we help? Hey there, guys. I'm happy to talk to both of you today. So about a year and a half ago, I was working in the fire department, and I left that fire department gig and made a career switch to finance. Since then, I worked at a bank for about eight months, and I leveled up into an investment firm.

I get married the end of next year, and right now I'm considering making a jump to go back into the fire service. So just maybe some help weighing out those decisions. So do you not enjoy the finance side? No, I don't. I was raised in a blue-collar family. So why'd you jump into it? Why'd you leave FIRE? Burnout, really.

I got to a point where I was just picking up too many shifts. I was also stupid spending. Hearing about the Ramsey plan, just not really following it. So I found myself in too much debt. And, um, so yeah, so this is much. Yeah. So it's a great line of questioning from George here. So I want to know if, if, uh, knowing what you know now and you're in a better position, if you were to go back into it and you didn't pick up too many shifts, do you think that

the firefighting job would be what it once was? In a negative way or is it better? Well, knowing what I know now, like you got to have some therapy set up in place ahead of time. One of the county departments around here just changed their contract. Instead of a 2448 schedule, they're changing it to a 2472 schedule. So you get an extra day off to recover for your mental health also since marriage is on the horizon I'm thinking a lot more about retirement and pension plans and health insurance which the fire department tees me up

incredibly for what was your favorite part of being a fireman if you even had one was there a favorite thing where you just felt like, man, this is amazing. My heart's beating fast in a good way. Yeah, I think aside from like the obvious things like the schedule benefits, it's just that idea that when you get a call, like you're the one, and it's like go time, something about that. Like there's a new puzzle to be solved every single time the tones go off. That's like, it's such an adrenaline rush for me i love it let me ask this i get that part but is there a connection that the problem that you're going to try to help solve has a people

result on the end of it or is it just the problem itself uh i care a lot about people I get really sucked into the calls. That's kind of what caused me to pick up some of the shifts last time, was I just didn't want to not work because I liked the connection with the people. I liked being able to help people and make a difference in their lives. All right, so I'm going to throw a potential curveball here. Instead of thinking that the only option here to accomplish the things you just laid out for us is to go back to being a firefighter. And it may very well be,

because it seems like you really got it figured out and could be healthy this time around. But I wonder if there's another direction to go that has the elements of what you just shared with me. And the two main elements are I'm under pressure. There is a problem that is very, very serious and I'm a part of solving it. And it's also most of the time you are saving someone's home or maybe saving their life, you know, and I think there's probably another way to go, two or three ways to go, that may not be as intense. Because I think it's the core of that role, which is why I had you describe it that way, I think opens up a lot more options to you. Do you see that or does that feel a little fuzzy to you when I say it that way? I hear it. It sounds great. I've had some failure to try to find that other route okay and what do

you mean by that what do you mean by failure you've kicked the tires and you can't come up with any ideas sitting around the house on your own or you've actually tried to look no like I you the way you describe it sounds nice okay maybe that might not have to be the jump um that being said sitting behind a desk at a finance firm is just hard for me. It's so difficult. I didn't say that. I didn't say sit. Nothing in what I just said to you had anything to do with staying

and sitting in a finance role. What I said was I wonder if being an EMT, I wonder if there are other roles where maybe you are potentially eventually going into maybe some type of emergency medicine or something. I don't know. I'm just trying to get your head to ideate a little bit to go, wait a second. Do I have more options than just going back to being a firefighter? And the answer is yes. I know you're desperate to get out of this finance role.

So maybe going back to the fire department is a bridge, but I'm thinking big picture here, not just get yourself out of the soul sucking finance job. Yeah. So I'm saying, think about the elements there and what, what is, because for instance, are there ways for you to solve problems for people under pressure that don't require you to run into a burning building? That's the question. You don't have to solve it on the air, and I'm not expecting you to. But I think that's something to be thinking about. Because right now, here's what you've presented us with.

Stay in this soul-sucking finance job or go back to the thing that I burned out from before. I just think there are better options. And I'm going to help. I'm going to give you the Get Clear assessment that comes with the new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take it, and I think it's going to validate some things we've begun to speak about, but it's also going to help you ideate what are some other options. And that's my gift to you, and I really want you to lean into that but I I'm okay with you going back to the fire department based on what you've told us you know how to stay healthy you got the therapy option there you've thought about it you're not

going to overwork yourself try to be superman all that I think it's a good move for now I just don't want you to feel like that's my only option that's what I'm pushing at George yeah is there a pay cut here Travis if you go back to fire uh it? It's pretty lateral just because the contract is pretty nice. So right now I'm making around $65,000 and I'd be going down to like $62,000 starting. Now, long-term pay, definitely. Long-term and finance certainly is more rewarding financially but without debt i feel like uh i don't have to make absolutely insane money to enjoy my life either and you know they take you back in a heartbeat how sure is this uh i've got pretty major certainty i've spoken to a lot of people and there's a lot of options here um okay so what does your fiance

think about this? She had trouble with it at first. She saw me leave their career. And after talking with her, the same plan I kind of explained to you guys, she said she's okay with it as long as we both have that agreeance that if it gets bad, then, you know, we got to do something. So having the right safeguards is definitely important to the preschool teacher. So, yeah. Travis, that's why I'm imploring you to be coming up with other ideas because you could go back to the fire department, get some stability, you're healthier this time, and you've got that schedule that would allow you to pursue some certifications or some other things, maybe even some education that would allow you to make that leap,

make it a walk, move right into something else. That's what I'm getting at. I just don't sense that you're super fired up about going back to being a firefighter, and that's okay. Did I just say fired up? Yeah, and you said burnt out. There's a lot of fire references here.

He said burnt out. I was just here jotting them down. Travis, I actually wasn't trying to be funny. That's what makes that even funnier, just Freudian once the smoke clears travis i think it's going to become very pay attention to all the alarms i mean we could keep going but travis you you i want you to understand that i'm trying to get you to think okay i've got more options than than the ones before me and uh i think a long-term play for you is probably to eventually transition out of this after you return. All right, yeah.

So hang on the line. I really appreciate it. Yeah, you bet. We're going to get you the resources. I think you'll help you walk through this. That's tough stuff. Yeah. When you take a job and you get in it, you make all the transition moves,

and then you're sitting there and you're going, my soul is slowly seeping out of my body. I hear it on him. It's hard to know if the grass is greener until you go to the other side. It's hard. It's actually not as hard as you think. Quick plug for The Proximity Principle, the number one bestselling book. Here's the point.

If I'm thinking about going into finance before I ever even start down that path, I'm hanging out with a lot of guys, shadowing if I can for half a day, and I'm going to get a really clear picture as to whether or not this would be fun. I think you can actually avoid this. He would have smelled it going, behind a desk all day? Oof, I got to be where the action is. That's right. Because where there's smoke, Joe, oh, George, there's fire. Joe, George, where there's smoke, there's fire. I like that. I need to go to commercial break, folks, and get my meds. Get them a snack. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Galatians 5.1. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm then and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Our quote from Samuel L. Jackson. That guy's been in more movies than just about anybody. It's unbelievable. He won't stop. He's prolific. Take a stand for what's right, he said. Raise a ruckus and make a change. You may not always be popular, but you'll be part of something larger and bigger and greater than yourself. Speaking of being a part of something that but you'll be part of something larger and bigger and greater than yourself.

Speaking of being a part of something that allows you to be involved in something greater than yourself. Speaking of not being popular, Ken, tell me about your years, your youth back in your school days. My youth? Yeah. I was middle of the road. Not the most popular kid in the school, but by no means an outcast. A part of no click?

Do you consider all the sports, all the the athletes 100 the click yeah if you are not an athlete you looked at that group and said they're not like me well i was a jock wow so hung out with all the guys i mean i played every sport every sport that's all we did we played sports we talked about sports you know we laughed at guys like you that were always carrying around your little skateboard that's hurtful but true and i 100 we laughed at you guys because we went oh we do extreme sports we wouldn't know about your cute little right you know uniform but all the laughing stopped when you got a wedgie you know that's true so you got to be careful i'm glad to be out of high school but for those that are in high school can uh it's still tough times out there foundations and personal finance is a great way to navigate the future, is it not?

Absolutely. And we've had this curriculum now in over half of the high schools in America. And the video lessons, I'm biased because I host it, I teach in it, Ken Coleman teaches in it, many of our Ramsey personalities, but they're actually engaging. Students go, yes, we get to watch another one of these finance videos. The teachers are excited. We're going to teach them how to budget, how to live a debt-free life, how to start their adult life on the right foot. And students can practice these real-life money skills, use hands-on activities. We have interactive budgeting

tools. So if you want to make sure the students in your life know how to handle money the right way, how to become an adult and not stay a kid, go to ramseysolutions.com slash foundations and learn more. Figure out how to get it in your house or in your school. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Jack is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Jack, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. How are y'all?

Great. What's going on? Yeah. So I'm 34, married with three small children and I'm in a situation to where the only debt I have is my home and one car. And I have the ability to pay the rest of all that off and still have some leftover as well as some 401k. I'm just trying to figure out if that's a smart move to make right now or should I hold on to some of the investments that I have? Are you saying you could pay off the mortgage and the car loan today with savings? Yes. I have a Raymond James, which is an enhanced savings account, which will, and then out of my checking account, correct. I can pay it

all off today. Okay. So tell me, what's your total non-retirement cash that you could liquidate? $395,500. Amazing. All right. What's left on the mortgage? $303,000. And the car loan? $69,700. All right. So you'd take $373,000 out of the $395,000. You'd be completely debt-free. You'd free up a car payment, free up a mortgage payment, and you're 34. You have the rest of your life ahead of you to invest and build wealth. Correct.

Correct. I would do it if I was in your shoes. Okay. Now, you need to think about the capital gains on the money you liquidate, but you'll be prepared come tax time for that, right? I would be. Yeah, I definitely would be. Does this include your emergency fund?

Not a whole lot. Do you have a separate emergency fund or was that included in these numbers? The leftover amount, roughly $23,000 would be cash, but I do have some other assets that if need be I could liquidate to have anything to cover. Yeah, $23,000 should be solid, and you can build on top of that if you need more for your three to six months of expenses. And then beyond that, you can invest as much as you want because you're in Baby Step 7 at that point. So you've gone beyond the 15% in Baby Step 4. You paid off the house at 6.

Now you can start saving up aggressively for college. You can invest 20%, 25%, 30% of your income, and you're going to have the margin to do that. Just for fun, what do the payments add up to, the car payment and your principal and interest from the mortgage? What will that free up a month? About $3,600. Woo!

How about that? Can you build wealth investing an extra thirty six hundred dollars a month? I think so. That's rhetorical. Do you want me to crunch the numbers for you for fun?

Here he goes. Absolutely. Okay. He's putting it in there. Let's go. You're thirty four. Let's say it's sixty

four. Let's say you start from zero in your investments. You're going to contribute thirty six hundred a month. That's just the extra.

Let's call it a ten percent return. Let me know when you want me to. Oh my goodness. That's just the extra. Let's call it a 10% return. Let me know when you want me to do it. Oh my goodness. That's $8.1 million, Jack. $8.1 million, and that's new wealth that you created. Without touching anything, you have an existence. Well, that's just for $3,600. Do I do? Do you have an income that could put more towards you? Exactly. Look at him flexing. Do you see where I'm going with this? Jack is flexing. I like it. Most people, Jack, go, well, I'd rather invest the money.

It's wiser. My financial advisor said it's wise to invest the money. Don't liquidate. Keep investing. And I'm going, yeah, but what about the next 30 years of Jack's life where he's freed up $3,600 to go on vacations, to give more, to save for college? So, Jack, you're going to do just fine, my man. I'm really proud of you. That is impressive.

Absolutely. Woo. Jack, are you fired up? I am. I'm definitely fired up. It can be stressful. Go talk to your wife today and say, hey, babe, what do you think about paying off the house today? Wouldn't that be fun? We had that conversation on Tuesday night. What'd she say? She's down. She's absolutely, she's all for it. I would think this is like a trip to Six Flags, Ken. She's down. She's down. Yeah, yeah. And one thing I did forget to mention, she does have some student debt. How much?

$300,000. Whoa, you buried the lead there, Jack. Buried the lead. It's a completely different story now. Right. Okay, you want the good news or the bad there, Jack. Buried the lead. It's a completely different story now. Right. Okay, you want the good news or the bad news? Both. We don't have time for it.

Hit me both. The good news is you're going to be completely debt-free very soon. The bad news is this money is now going to be allocated to her student loan debt and the car loan, and we're going to wait on the house. Okay. All right. Is that why you didn't tell us she had $300,000 in debt?

You said, I don't have any debt. Well, I just have a mortgage. Well, I have a car loan. You missed the $300,000 in student loans, Jack. What is your household income? I hope it's astronomical.

It fluctuates between $22,000 to $28,000 per month. That'll do. That'll work. $28,000 a grand a month ken you doing the math at home yes yeah that's a good over 300 grand yeah so you guys are going to be able to pay off the house quickly but i would focus this money on the student loans and car payment and go from there what were you planning to do had we ended that call and we didn't realize that you didn't tell us about the 300K, what was the plan? Just ignore the 300K or what? Wire the money to pay the house off and the car off and then attack the 300 on the student loan. That's what I thought.

I still like the plan of attacking the student loans. Your consumer debt, that goes in baby step two, baby step six with the mortgage, it's less angry debt. The student loans make me angry. The car loan makes me angry. The house, we will get to. I agree. You're going to do it aggressively regardless. What's the $300,000 for?

What kind of education? Law school. Is she crushing it right now as a lawyer? She's a stay-at-home mom with our three children. So you're the one making the $300-something thousand? Correct. What are you doing? Is the studio spinning, or is it just me?

Well, Ken, it is a thing we've seen where people go to college, they get masters, PhDs, spend a lot of money, go into a lot of student loan debt, and then decide, you know what, I don't want to be a part of the workforce for at least a season. Maybe she'll get back to it one day. Who knows? Is she wanting to go back into law? She is, but right now we've been able to afford our kids to be full-time moms. What's the timeline on her getting back into being a lawyer? Our youngest three, so I'd probably say the next two years. I'd probably have a candlelight

dinner and see if we could speed that up a little bit. I'm not trying to turn this into a marriage phone call, but my word. Yeah. $300,000 that we're just kind of, well, we'll get to it. Yikes. That's a lot. That's a tough one right there. Wow. What a sidewinder to end the show. We almost wrapped the call. Didn't even know about the 300K. How would we know? He didn't say. He didn't tell us.

All right. Good show, George Campbell. Thanks to James Childs, our fearless leader. Thank you, America, for listening and watching. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. you