The Ramsey Show - App - How to Snowball Current Vs. Defaulted Debts (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 19, 2019

et Started on Your Debt-Free Journey We’ve made it even easier to get started taking control of your money.  Learn How! How Fast Can You Be Debt-Free? You don’t have to be in debt for the rest of your life! Answer 5 simple questions and our Debt Calculator will show you how quickly you could be out debt!   Get the Complete Guide to Budgeting. Budgeting is often misunderstood and overcomplicated. It doesn't have to be! We made it simple. After 90 days of budgeting with EveryDollar, 9 out of 10 users feel more confident in their financial future. Get the Complete Guide to Budgeting.   Get the Coverage You Need. How does your coverage stack up? This Coverage Checkup will show you what you need (and don’t need), which questions to ask, and where to get the best coverage.   Find the Right Financial Advisor. Finding the right financial advisor doesn't have to be complicated. Our free guide makes it easy to know what questions to ask so you can make a confident choice. Get the guide!    Listen and Watch Anytime, Anywhere.   The Dave Ramsey Show app lets you download episodes for offline playback, customize your content, and see what’s coming up!

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. At the bottom of the hour, Ramsey personality Chris Hogan will join us as we're going to be talking about his normal routine.

He talks about money and life just like I do. Of course, he's the author of the number one bestselling book, Everyday Millionaires, How Ordinary People Became, Built Extraordinary Wealth and How You Can Too. So we'll be talking about that. Have him with us here. We're looking forward to it. It's going to be an incredible half hour. So he'll be joining us at the bottom of the hour.

If you want to talk to Chris Hogan, jump in right now. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Michelle Lynn is with us in Ontario. Hi, Michelle Lynn. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, so I am a global worker, and I have finally finished fundraising, and I am just about to move to Bolivia on July the 2nd. I just came onto payroll at my new church this month, and so I have now joined the pension plan. So just a few, you know, stats about it. I am required to donate to it.

It's a 2.5% minimum contribution, and I can go up as high as 10% maximum. Now, it's a little bit different in Canada. We don't have the 401ks and the Roth IRAs. What I've been investing in before I started here was that I've got a tax-free savings account. And I know that you say that we should try to not give into a pension and try to keep as much in our own names as possible. But then I also know that you say that we should take the match because the match is better. So this particular pension with my new church, they actually match. So if I'm doing the 2.5%, they'll match that. Or if I go up to the 10%, they match that as well. So another thing that

you'll need to know, once I get to retirement age, if I die before I get to retirement age, then my heirs, I can have beneficiaries and they will get a lump sum payment of five years of benefits given to them. If I die, say two years into it, then they'll get three years worth of the lump sum payment. If I've received my five years, like if I die after five years of receiving retirement, then they won't get anything. So I'm just wondering if I should take the match or if I should just do the minimum and, you know, invest in my own tax-free savings account. Okay. Well, do you have any idea of the rates of return?

I don't. I've got the little booklet here, but it doesn't – I guess that will probably be in the – Because in the States, it's highly regulated, and what they're allowed to invest in. And so the typical pension plan in the States will make about six, maybe six and a half percent. I suspect it's probably similar in Canada. I have no idea. I truly do not know anything about it.

So I would investigate that and learn about that. The payout upon your does is a little different so you'd get some of your money out yes upon your death but not all of it no um unless you hit it just perfectly but i mean if you paid into this thing for 15 or 20 years you know you would not get hardly any of your money out upon death no that's true and so but it would benefit me so if i live a long life um oh i forgot to tell you that um if i live like once i once i've retired even if i live like 30 years i'll continue to receive my my pension now that's pretty much true of all that's true that'd be true of a pension in the states as well it's for life it's not like the five years is just for the the

payout to my to my hair it's only upon But basically, you're going to lose most of your money if you live a while and you pay into it a while. You're going to lose most of your money or all of your money upon death. Yes. Okay? So that's concern number one. Number two, then, is what's the rate of return? And if you're making half of what you could make outside of the pension, then the match doesn't matter much. Okay.

You know? I mean, I would do something in it to get something going. Well, I have to. If you can make twice as much money on your rate of return and it doesn't die when you die, it's going to end up being the same advice that I would have given someone in the States that you've obviously heard me give. Yeah. And so, but I don't know the details.

I'm not up to speed on, you know, your laws and what you're facing and so forth. But that's how you would investigate it and decide. But we do know that unless you die young before you've taken out any money you're basically going to lose everything at death is what we're saying if you live a while um or you're um uh you know then you're just not getting you're not going to get enough of your money back out so upon death so the death part is is better but it's still not good. Then the rate of return thing is what you'd look at, and the match thing. You'd look at those other two factors and just weigh it out and go,

well, maybe I put some in here, but maybe I don't do it all in there, because I do actually want to have a nest egg that's independent of this pension plan. Because the other thing is you can't access. I mean, let's say that this pension lump sum is, you know, that effectively it would have grown to a half million dollars or something many years from now that you put in 10%, they put in 10%, and it's got a good rate of return. It grows to a half million dollars. You don't ever get that half million dollars.

You couldn't take it out and buy a house with it. You can't, you know, unless you can lump sum out of it, maybe you can lump sum out of it, but I doubt you can. So that's the things you need to continue to learn about because i and i'm sorry i'm not even better help because i just don't know i don't know the answer to the the details the nuances of the pension plans available in canada danielle is with us in oklahoma city hi danielle how are you good how are you better than i deserve are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Okay.

So me and my husband have been paying off our debt for about two years now. We've been able to pay off about $25,000, and we still have about $44,000 to go. But just recently, my husband fills the Lord leading us into ministry. So he's recently enrolled in school starting last semester. So my question is, if you think it's a good idea for us to sell our house and use the equity to pay off our debt and to be able to live closer to my husband's school and work, and then just rent until he graduates, and then the plan is to wherever the Lord leads from there, wherever there's a ministry opportunity. Okay.

So what does he make now? He makes about $45,000 a year. Okay. Are you working outside the home? No, I'm a stay-at-home mom. What's the nature of the remaining debt? What do you owe the $44,000 on? It's about $35 35 000 in student loans

and 9 000 in personal loans okay no car debt left no okay how old are you two um i'm 27 my husband's 30 what will the house how much money would the house selling put in your hand? So what we would get back is about $39,000. In your hand? Yes. So you'd be debt-free almost. Yeah, but... Yeah, I think I would consider that because you're in a transition point in your life.

I think it might be a good idea. Thanks for the call. This is big news, guys. You need to stop and listen. The Fed decided not to raise interest rates. That means you've got a small window of time before rates rise again. Here's the deal. Most people are paying too much interest on their largest expense, their home.

So you're freaking crazy if you don't take 10 minutes to call Churchill Mortgage right now and see if they can save you money before rates rise again. A mortgage through Churchill could save you thousands, or better yet, reduce the time until you're debt-free. Can you imagine how it would feel to no longer have that payment looming over your head every month? Just go to ChurchillMortgage.com or call 888-LOAN-200. Their team of experts will give you more clarity about your options and more peace, knowing you're saving significant money in the long run. Call 888-LOAN-200. That's 888-562-6200 or churchillmortgage.com. Bill is with us in Iowa.

Hi, Bill. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. I appreciate you taking my call here, and thank you, Kelly, for allowing me to talk to you. Sure. How can I help? So I'm one of your Ramsey financial coaches, and I've got something that came up last week that stumped me a little bit, so I wanted to ask you about it. I received a letter in the mail last week that said that there was a bankruptcy case that had been filed, and I was named as a creditor in the case. So I'm wondering if this is just a no-brainer hiring an attorney to do this

or if this is something I can walk through. I called the clerk's office and asked for a little guidance, and, of course, they were as helpful as creditors are. So I'm looking for what we can do to approach this, if it's worth any time or effort, or if I should just write it off. Okay. What's the situation? Who owes you money? It's from last year when I made a down payment on a construction project that we were going to have done in our house for 3,400 bucks and we ended up moving.

So we didn't, um, have that, that project completed. Um, so I asked for the down payment back and he said, of course, yes, he will. But that was, you know, last year and then he went off the grid and I was able to track him down a couple of weeks ago and then magically the paperwork shows up about a week later. Yeah. So he, down a couple of weeks ago and then magically the paperwork shows up about a week later yeah so the down payment the down payment was three thousand four hundred dollars yes okay that's a lot of money yeah it was for a new deck yeah and uh it was last year why'd you wait a year to get your money back he went off the grid i couldn't find him oh okay then when you found him

i found him kind of through the grapevine again and reached out to him again and asked him if he was still wanting to pay me back because he said he was going to and then this paperwork showed up was the uh was the filing a chapter 7 or chapter 13? 13. Okay. You hiring an attorney is probably not going to change the outcome. Chapter 13, as you know, is a payment plan. He's going to be paying payments to his creditors. Yep. And he'll be paying on an unsecured creditor, which you are, he'll be paying some percentage of what is owed over five years.

And it will be anywhere from, you know, whatever, 5% to 100% of what is owed, and you'll receive it over five years. And hiring an attorney is probably not going to change that because it's a math formula that the Chapter 13 court uses. And he's required to pay a percentage based on what he has. I'm really shocked it's a 13. I would have guessed it was going to be a 7, and you were just going to get 0. Emotionally, I would write the money off.

You're going to get some portion of it in payments when the Chapter 13 payments begin, but at best, you're going to get $3,400 over five years. Right. So that's almost like losing the money. You know, that's your best case scenario. 78% of the Chapter 13s or payment plans do not make it and convert to a chapter 7 at some point in the process and so there's an 8 out of 10 chance this guy doesn't make even the payment plan that the court holds him to all the way through the five years so um i'm gonna write it off and just

whatever they you know make sure that the court has your accurate address and can send you whatever money that he actually does send in and so forth but my guess is the guy has no money it's a prop probably a good guess um and he's probably not going to pay these payments for very long so and really you hiring an attorney is not going to change that it doesn't make him have money that he doesn't have now and it doesn't make him pay payments the court's already going to make him do the payments so i wouldn't i would i really you know make sure that that the filing with the court has accurate information on you contact points on you the chapter 13 trustees actually do a very good job of managing these cases nationally but just not many people make it because the very thing that put them into bankruptcy doesn't allow them to survive five years paying payments to a bankruptcy court so um you know whatever it is that's wrong with his life that got him into this mess is

probably going to cause him to crash the rest of the way before he gets better so that's you know if i were in your shoes i would emotionally write it. I'd spend a little bit of time and trouble on your own part making sure, but there's really nothing to fight here. And you certainly don't need to contact him. You have a federal stay on you. Federal court says stay, meaning you're in contempt of federal court if you contact a debtor that owes you when you're the creditor and they have filed bankruptcy and given you notice of it.

You do not want to mess with that. So do not contact him at all, period, under any circumstances. Any contact with him has to be done through the court system because you have an injunction that has been filed on you in that sense against communication. That's what the stay means in bankruptcy. That's one of the reasons people file bankruptcies, to get the phone calls off of them. So don't contact him. Do contact the court.

I wouldn't waste my money on the attorney. And emotionally, I'd just write it off and go, yeah, I gave the wrong guy a deposit and uh that's why i don't prepay for repairs on properties with contractors and so forth i just don't do it oh you're not going to get me to work on the house then well that's not going to be it's going to be okay with me i'm just not going to do it so uh good question thanks for calling in daniel's with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? Well, me and my wife, we kind of stumbled across you a couple months back ago. And on April 12th, we finally started the baby step plan because we got set up with the debt. And we're doing pretty good. But the problem is we put all our money towards the debt and now we found out that our drainage tile is bad in the basement and it floods every time it rains.

And it has to be redone. And we are not really sure how to pay for it. And I really don't want to take another loan out, but I don't really see any other way to do it. Okay. So what's the bid to replace the drainage tile in the basement? About $15,000. How many bids have you gotten?

Three. And they're all $15,000? The lowest is about $10,000, and then the highest would be about $15,000. Okay, well, it sounds like it's more like $10,000. How much debt have you got? Well, we started with $62,000. We're down to $44,000 now. Okay, and how quick did you pay off that 20 000 um two and a half months we started april 12th but that's because we had a lot of money

saved and then we started listening to you so we just took all the money that we had saved and put it towards that and then i sold one of my cars. Gotcha. What's your household income? About $75,000 before taxes. Okay. You got any more things to sell or any more money you can access to do this repair with? Not really. When I sold the car, I sold it last week, and I put the money and paid off her school, and then we got about $5,000, and I was about to chunk towards my last credit card, but then this came up, so I didn't know really what I should do.

Okay. How many times has the basement flooded? Well, in the past week, twice. Pretty much every time it rains now, it starts to flood. But, you know, the past three months. What suddenly happened? It just rained a lot. Do what?

In Ohio, when the snow all melted, it got really hot in the wintertime, and then it rained on top of it. It went up to like 80 degrees, and we had two and a half feet of snow. So all the water just kind of went straight towards the house and flooded the basement. Okay. So is that over? No, it just rained like two days ago and it flooded again. So it's...

I mean, your spring thaw is almost over, isn't it? Oh, yeah, it's completely over. We've been in the 70s now for a couple weeks. It's 80 degrees today, but it's supposed to rain for the next five days after today. Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to have someone check the gutter system and some other things and make sure that there's not some other things we can do to get the water off the house cheaper than that.

But in the meantime, you've got to save up $10,000 as fast as you can. And so I'd stop your whole total money makeover until you get this repair done. But let's really, really, really dig into this repair, no pun intended, and find out what has to be done there. Because there's a wide spectrum of things that can be done for a basement leaking. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. Joining me this half hour answering your questions with me, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, Chris Hogan. Welcome back, Chris.

Well, thank you, sir. It's good to be with you. Well, it's good to be here. Things are good. So we have launched and is about half sold out our smart conference in Sacramento for the fall. It's going to be November the 16th. And it is our it's a huge smart conference lineup. You and Anthony O'Neill, Ken Coleman, Dr. Les Parrott on marriage, Dr. Meg Meeker on parenting, Anthony O'Neill, of course, a teen and millennial expert, our own Ramsey personality there. I'll be speaking, of course. And John O'Leary will be with us.

He is an inspiring, inspiring speaker with a great story. And you just leave thinking you can conquer the world after you hear John. You do, Dave. I mean, we've done this event now for several years. And each and every year, I sit out there when everyone is presenting. And it's amazing the advice and tidbits you're able to pick up, regardless of the age or stage that you're in in life. And so I want to encourage all of you to get out, come and connect with this event. At the last one, Dave, I met a grandparent that brought her daughter who brought their grandson.

Wow. So this was a family tree kind of approach. Yeah. And it was amazing, and everyone had a great time. So from 18 up to almost 80, you can come and learn and have fun. Yeah, very good. Very cool. Very good stuff.

Well, the Smart Conference is Sacramento. It's going to be November the 16th, and it is a world-class lineup. Tickets are on sale now at DaveRamsey.com, or you can call 888-22-PIECE and talk to the Ramsey Concierge Team, 888-227-3223. If you've not heard of the Smart Conference, this originated when some of our team and I were sitting around. I'm going, wow, what if I could get the very people that I personally read, I personally look up to, they personally impacted my life, and then later have become friends, and I could get us all in one place on one day, and we can talk about parenting, we can talk about personal development, we can talk about marriage, we can talk about money, we can talk about millionaires, we can talk about all of this all in one day, in a one-day-long conference.

And it's one of the best buys on the planet. The ticket price is unbelievably low. You would pay this ticket price to see any one of these people speak, and you get them all in a day-long event. 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223, or just go to DaveRamsey.com. Chris, you ready to take some calls? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Dave, let's talk to the people. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Will is in Dayton, Ohio. Will, your question for Chris and I. Thank you. Yes, it's an honor to be speaking with both of you. Yes, it's an honor to be speaking with both of you. Dave, before I start, I just wanted to say that because of a lot of things that I've listened to you say over the past few years, it's a big reason why my wife and I pray daily that God will make us be good stewards with the money that he blesses us with. So thank you very much for your encouragement. Well, thank you. So I have been working at a church for the past three years, and I am about to graduate with my master's degree. I'm desiring to be a pastor

someday, but I'm not just a director right now. And so my question is, what is your advice when it comes to kind of figuring out what salary would be fair for somebody in my position? Well, you can do some online research, a comp study, a compensation study on any position out there. You need to get very specific about your region and the size of your church and the position, of course, that you're filling in that church and so forth. In other words, a youth pastor of a church that has 10,000 people attending would be paid differently than a youth pastor of a church that has 100 people attending, which in that case, that youth pastor is probably a volunteer. He's probably not on staff. So that kind of a thing.

Church size would dictate some of it. The position you're holding would dictate some of it. And just do some online research and a comp study on it. What's the size of your church? The church that I'm currently at, that I've been at for the last three years, is about 500. Okay. And you're the director of what? So pretty much over the young adults, what I've been doing, 1835. Okay.

Probably the realistic aspect of that church's budget is they probably don't have a lot of room to give you a raise. Do you think I'm wrong? No. I'd say that budget's pretty tight around there. They're supporting a pastor full-time and you full-time. How many other staff members? About 10. Whoa, with 500 people?

Yeah. We have a large property um so we have grounds crew and uh and um we have uh children's youth young adults um we have a cfo those types of things okay somebody's giving some money to this church you guys got some big givers in there somewhere uh the typical pastor typical 500 person church does not have that much staff so um i'm you know i'm guessing that you're probably not going to see a lot it's probably the reality of that it's probably not you know if they do have the money then the way to present it is just to say this is what the compensation study shows. If I'm wrong on this study, show me where I'm wrong.

And, you know, they'll say, well, you know, you could be right, but we don't have any money. So, I mean, we're barely paying all the people we're doing now. So, you know, then your only choice is to look elsewhere to try to raise your income in ministry, which you're doing anyway, because you want to pastor it at some point. Am I right? Yes, I do want to be a senior pastor someday. Yes. Yeah, I think, Will, you know, as Dave has guided you, I think it's really important to understand what the market can bear out there, but also what they're able to pay.

And so I think that's a really important, frank conversation to have. You don't want to have this internal discussion inside your head or at home with the wife. You want to be able to have an outward discussion and be open and honest with it. But I think, you know, being aware that, you know, obviously as a Christian, you know, the Lord is guiding you. But for you to make sure you're being a good steward of your time, your talents by you looking to figure out what else is out there. And so that's a step to take, you know, in confidence, but be open and have the courage enough to have that talk. So is the budget published?

No. It's private? Yes. So you don't know what the revenues are? You don't know what the tithing is? Staff does. Oh, you do? You have access to the numbers?

Yes. Yes. Okay. So you have access to the whole budget? Yes. Okay. Well, then the other thing you would do is just sit down and look at that and, you know, try to be as objective as you can be and say, gosh, if I were on the other side of this conversation, what would I do?

And looking at those numbers, if let's say you were the CFO and um you know you're looking at these numbers and you're going it you know this is this guy's valuable we've got the room we'll take care of this little raise he's asking for or gee man there's no way we're already up a creek here i remember when i first started back here and coming in here from the banking world this place was a breath of fresh air like the way we dealt with stuff and talked about it. But I'll never forget you in a staff meeting. You said your raise is effective when you are. And I'd never heard anyone ever put it like that. And it almost makes you introspective and looking and going, what am I doing?

Am I doing a job that's that is in need of or deserving of a raise? And I think, you know, business is not done like that out in our culture today, to be that direct and that open. But I think a lot of people out there need to be able to have that conversation, but also look at performance and then go talk. Well, assuming the place has the capacity to write the check, that's true. That's right. That's exactly right.

So, good question. Chris Hogan, number one bestselling author of the book, Everyday Millionaires. Ramsey Personality joins me this half hour answering your questions in tandem. Yep, that's us. We together can't grow a hair on top of our head. Not together we can't do that, but together we can answer your questions. So there you go. 888-825-5225.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our Scripture of the day, Ephesians 3.12, In him and through faith we may approach God with freedom and confidence. Coretta Scott King said, Struggle is a never-ending process. Freedom never really won. You earn it and win it In every generation Very true And you really earn it and win it

For yourself regularly By choosing To make better decisions It changes everything Chris Hogan joins me this half hour Answering your questions The phone number is 888-825-5225 We will be doing the smart conference in sacramento november the 16th it'll include all the ramsey personalities well at least chris

anthony and i the girls uh christy and rachel are both off for the fall with babies so uh they won't be with us at this one but uh the three of us will be. Oh, and Coleman. Ken Coleman will be there. The four of us, I guess. The guys will all be there. And there's six of us that are Ramsey personalities now that speak and teach and do podcasts and number one bestselling books and so forth all over the place. And so four of us will be there along with Meg Meeker, John O'Leary, and Dr. Les Parrott, Dr. Meg Meeker as well. So it's going to be a great lineup, and it's November the 16th. Tickets are 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223, or DaveRamsey.com. Justin's in Corpus Christi.

Hey, Justin, your question for Chris and me. Hey, Dave, great to talk with you guys. I'm very new to your system. I just purchased your book last night. I told my wife, hey, we've been doing this the wrong way. I've put all of the bills onto her and I just made the money. And I said, this isn't the right way to go about this. And here's why. I sent her a ton of your videos, a ton of information. My question is, is I have some debt that I have, for lack of a better term, ignored. And I don't have a minimum payment.

And I understand that the snowball, I get the idea, but it's kind of based around a minimum payment. I don't have a minimum payment since I've ignored them. How do I go about deciding how to tackle these? I know smallest to largest, but I don't have a minimum payment set up. So they're in default. I'm kind of lost on that. They're in default, right?

Yes, they are. And how much debt is in default? Minus the car, because the car is current. I'm looking at about $9,000 to $10,000. Okay. How much do you owe on the car? $21,213. Is it the only debt that's current?

Yes. I do have two credit cards. They're current, but I still am carrying a balance on both of them. Okay. Then they're current. Okay. So you've got $10,000 that's not current, and you've got $24,000 or whatever that is current. Yes, sir.

Okay. And including cars and credit cards okay now the stuff that's not current how old is it how long has it been since you paid on it um basically since it came in i'm i'm clicking buttons here trying to give you the best answers I can. I mean, like 10 years or 10 months? 10 years or 10 months? It's not 10 years, so we'll go 10 months. Well, I mean, is it literally a year? I mean, roughly? Yeah, it's the first one that shows up on my report.

It shows a year and eight months old. All right, so it's a couple years old. And what are these medical bills um the majority of them are medical bills uh one of them is for sprint but i don't feel like i should pay that one and i know that's the wrong way to look at it it was one of those oh here's some free tablets i didn't want them i ended up with them anyway and then when i tried to turn them back in they wouldn't take them and then they charged me four thousand dollars for them you have to call and negotiate that and get it gone away like you have to do in the real estate um it's been two years since i've gotten any money

i would run two debt snowballs i'd first run the one on stuff that's current i get the credit card in a car paid off then i would go through and work off the others and negotiate with each one of those. And Chris, when he's negotiating, there's some rules we use, right? Yeah, it really is. And Justin, what you're going to want to do is really prepare your mind and your heart as you reach out to these debts that are old or charged off, meaning you're going to have to stand up for yourself. You're going to have to be really, really clear that you're trying to, A, number one, get the debt verified. Meaning for them to look and to give you an understanding of what it is that you owe. And then you're going to have a conversation about what it is you can afford to pay.

Now, we're not asking them because they're going to come at you with unrealistic expectations. So you being clear on, I can afford to send you $50 a month or $100 a month, and I'm not asking, I'm telling them. And so make sure you take notes on who it is you're speaking with, the date and the time, and you're really going to have to stand firm, my friend, because these collection companies, they'll begin to sell this debt off. And so you could be dealing with one company at one point, but another one at another. So you want to take really, really good notes and be clear on what you can afford to pay.

Okay. Go ahead and clear off the stuff. The changing company. I'm sorry. Go ahead and clear off the stuff you're active with first, though. Mm-hmm. So it's a knockout. The two credit cards knock out the car.

Yep. And everything else start working on smallest to largest. Exactly. After that start. One other small question. I know that the very end is to give and to be charitable and everything. I'm a member of two nonprofit organizations, the dues for which are less than $200 a year,

but there's always the ancillary costs and things, you know, fundraisers and you're always paying extra stuff. Do I need to grab the reins and pull that back or say, hey, guys, we're going to have to stop this for a little bit and then come back into them, or do I just continue on with it? Well, we always say to put giving at the top of your budget. And for those of us that are evangelical Christians, the baseline is a tithe, a tenth of an income to our local church.

It would not include dues to a nonprofit. And so if you want to pull those back, that's fine. I don't mind some kind of giving, depending on where your faith walk is at the top. But don't feel like it's an obligation to do that while you're cleaning up, those kinds of things. So if you want to consider it a tithe to your local church baseline before you do anything else, I do that, and then I don't do any other giving until we're out of debt. That's what I did. It's what I found in Scripture.

But, again, if you're not doing that from a faith perspective, then you're just saying, I'm going to think about this. I'm going to decide what giving I want to do. And if you want to keep these, that's fine. But I wouldn't do it out of a sense of obligation. Yeah. And Justin, I just want to congratulate you. You know, the fact that you're able to look at where you are and realize, hey, we've done

some things wrong, but now we're going to make some new decisions. And the way you and your wife are approaching this, looking at it, I guarantee you're going to make progress because you're making the right kinds of decisions. And so I'm proud of you for the decision that you've made. You're going to have to keep making that same decision as you walk through this process. As Dave has said for many years, getting out of debt's not about math. It's about momentum. And as you take that step and keep taking it, you're going to make progress on these debts.

So congratulations and job well done. Exactly. The big deal here is you found the secret sauce, and that's grabbing the bull by the horns and taking control. And that's exactly what you're doing. So very, very good question. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Chris Hogan, the guest host with me this half hour. Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Millionaire, Everyday Millionaires.

And the book continues to sell and do well. It really is, Dave. It is really moving. I'm excited. People are getting the message. I'm hearing about it out there in my Everyday Millionaire Facebook group. You can find that by going to facebook.com slash Chris Hogan and go to the group section

and look for Everyday Millionaires. This group is growing. Dave, people in there from 18 to age 78, but they're encouraging each other and cheering each other on. And I'm very excited about how we're going to kind of change the face of things as people look at money

and look at how to build wealth the right way. You know, Pastor Dave Stone did our devotional this morning for our company, and he said when you're standing up to something, standing up is easier when you're not alone and so being in a community like that and you're standing up to a culture that's overspending out of control impulsive says you're entitled to buy anything you want whenever you want and you're not you're broke standing up against that how you have to be around some people they're doing smart

stuff and so getting positive peer pressure in these groups is very, very important. The Ramsey Baby Steps community just passed 200,000 members this week. Yeah. So standing together is a big deal. It is a big deal. America, get connected with us. We're here for you. Chris Hogan, thanks for stopping by.

Thank you for having me, Dave. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, Senior Executive Producer for the show. You know, you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone. Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the App Store and download it today.