The Ramsey Show - App - How Would It Feel to Not Have a Debt in the World? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Proximity Principle, is my co-host today here on the air as we talk about careers, your jobs, what you want to do with your life, how you get aligned with the passion that's inside of you to create the best possible outcome. And we're also going to talk about your money and your life in general. That's what we're here for.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Julia in Seattle starts this hour off. Hi, Julia. How are you? Hey, doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Some quick question. Earlier this year, I started Baby Steps 2 and 3 at this... Hello? Okay. So try it one more time, they're saying. All right, let's try it one more time they're saying all right let's try it one more time joe you with me still yep can you hear me okay earlier in the year you started baby steps two and three at the same time yes and then i once i discovered you yep i wanted to tackle my debt instead um but now that i do have um so I have $6,000 saved in an emergency fund, but I have $8,000 in credit card debt and $6,000 in student loans. So my question is, should I transfer a

portion of that emergency fund to just start tackling that debt? Or do you think I should keep the emergency fund where it's at, just in case? Well, if you're going to do our plan, we teach you to keep $1,000 as baby step one, apply everything else, and your debt snowball in baby step two that is not in a retirement account, investments or other cash or anything you can get your hands on to push your way through baby step two as fast as possible. As soon as baby step two is done, we return to the $1,000 account, and that's called Baby Step 3,

and raise it up to three to six months of expenses. So you said you had $6,000 saved? Yes. So doing it our way, you'd pull five of that, and you would throw it at your smallest debt, which I think I heard was your student loan. Yes, it's my student loan. It's the credit card, the one that I'm really mad at. But, yeah, student loan would be the smallest one.

So what's your household income? It's $85,000. Household is about $130,000, but I make $85,000. These are your only two debts? These are my only two debts, but the credit card started out at $15,000, and so it's been the biggest one that I've been trying to knock down. Yeah, but the point is, I mean, you've got six and eight is 14, minus five is nine. You should pay off nine, making $130,000 in about 20 minutes. You need to knock these other two out really, really fast.

I'm talking maybe a month and a half right yep i can get the credit card knocked out at the end of january um i should be able to tackle the other ones early february well the other one is a student loan right it was smaller yes it's smaller okay you keep trying to do this your way let me try try it again. Okay. My way is you list your debts smallest to largest. You attack them in an order. You have a $6,000 student loan. It's a $1,000 student loan after this discussion because we're applying five of your $6,000 savings account to it. Did I miss something?

Okay. Then you've got $8,000. So you have $9,000 left total, one in student loans, eight in credit cards, and you still should be done by the end of January with both of them. Okay. If you can't do $9,000 making $135,000 in two months, something's slipping. Right. It's mainly my income, but it's just we're not married.

Oh, then that's not a household income. Sorry about that. Yeah. That's okay. Okay. Well, $85, 85 might make it you know it might be the end of march before you get there so hey thanks for calling we appreciate you joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 ken it is always good to think okay some people listening to this

show have been listening 10 years and some have been listening 10 minutes and uh the stuff that you're about the path to your dream job you have a very clear path to get there the path to wealth we have a very clear path to get there called the baby steps and we really don't need to change those because they work they work they work because they are practical they work because they are sequential. They build on each other. So it's so important when you get that emergency fund, you've got that kind of rainy day if something happens, it's $1,000 in the bank, and now we can go with gazelle intensity to knock those off. And this lady here is going to be in great shape in, you know, three to six months.

She's going to be working on that baby step three and getting that true rainy day fun there to three to six months expenses where you can breathe easy. And there's a reason why it works. Over time, there is a tested process. The same thing with finding what you were created to do. You've got to get clear. You can't just, well, I've got all these ideas. No, we've got to know. And what are we basing that on?

And we're going to base it on God-given gifts. Talent, that's what you do best. Passion, work that you love to do. You just love the work. High emotion when you think about it. And high devotion to really do it well. And then mission, the results you want to create. So when we say things like this is the process, it is for two reasons.

It's the recipe. It does work. And the reason it works. Great pot roast. Yeah. For 38 years of our marriage yeah don't change the recipe don't need to my mouth is watering right now i know i'm telling you don't change the recipe no and don't know oh i just didn't i didn't pick up something at the start you know don't change it works It works. Right. Work the recipe. Yeah.

Work the recipe. And so we're always going to take you back there. Sometimes if we think you're fairly new, like our last caller, we'll do so gently. But if you call me up, I've been listening 10 years, and then you ask me that same question, I'm probably going to smack you around verbally. Because you don't need to be asking that question. If you've been listening 10 years, you know. You will smack them around verbally, Dave.

Don't give these folks this idea that you might go easy on them if they've been 10 years listening. Yeah, Dave, I've listened to you for 10 years, and I just leased a car and went down to the payday lender, and I don't believe in budgeting. So what do you think I should do? You should probably listen to a different show. So what is the human element? What is it about us that we go, okay, I know Dave's got this show. I know he's helped a lot of

people i've listened to him long enough you know we make fun of the some of the left-wing millennials or whatever call them snowflakes but in at the end of the day inside of every one of us we all think we're a snowflake we all think we're unique uh yeah we all think that that well maybe it doesn't apply to me maybe maybe if i want to lose weight i don't have to exercise more and eat less maybe there's a maybe i can just take a pill. Yeah. Maybe for me, there's a different formula for losing weight. So I'm going to run this by you, Dave.

Less calorie intake. Stay back away from the donuts. It is true. It is true. Eating healthy and exercising is guaranteed to improve your health and help you lose weight. It's just an amazing concept. There's no way around that. You know what I mean?

There's no free. You know what the other thing, too, is there's no free lunch. You can't buy crap on an infomercial, and your thigh master's not going to do it. I'm just saying. Yeah, I remember those when those first came out. If you wore this belt, it would vibrate on your stomach and eat away at the fat. And I always remember going, who's going to buy that? But apparently a lot of people. A bunch of people bought it.

A lot of people. Because it involved no pain and no sacrifice to hit their goal. Yeah. And by the way, when it's that easy, you're never going to people bought it. A lot of people. Because it involved no pain and no sacrifice to hit their goal. Yeah. And by the way, when it's that easy, you're never going to stick with it. Oh, and let me help you with this, too. It didn't work. There's always that. There's always that.

Get rich quick. It doesn't work. There's sacrifice involved. Follow the recipe. Follow the recipe. So good. I hire a personal trainer, and he's got a six-pack, and I've got a keg. I should listen to him.

Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. you've worked hard to make your business successful blood sweat tears and prayers because as a business owner you are the secret sauce and your company is only as strong as you are. So what happens if a key ingredient is missing? And what if that ingredient is your health, resulting in expensive medical bills? Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, presents health cost sharing. It's different from insurance in that Christians help other

Christians to meet their medical expenses. Various programs are available depending on your needs and budget. As a Better Business Bureau accredited charity, CHM has helped its members successfully share over $5 billion in each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. Various programs are available depending on your needs and budget. Learn how CHM has served small business owners just like you by visiting chministries.org slash budget. chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, joins me this hour, this day, as my co-host. He's the number one bestseller of the book Proximity Principle.

Here to help you with your career questions, the phone number is 888-825-5225. And we'll, of of course answer your questions about anything you want to talk about. It's what we're here for. Christine is in Pittsburgh. Hi Christine, how are you? Hi Dave and Ken. First of all, I just want to say thank you for everything you and your team

do. I just hope you know how important you all are to so many people. We just love you. So, yeah, my question is what my husband and I should do with a $10,000 gift that we got when we were married about seven years ago. Um, my husband and I are on baby steps four, five, and six. We're finishing up with four and on five and six. Um, we're just not sure what we should do with that gift, whether we should invest it or pay off our home. We like the idea of using it to pay off our home.

We've been through our fair share of debt with student loans and a car payment, and we just hate that interest rate that eats at you. But we weren't sure if that was the right thing to do. Well, any money that is not in a retirement account will apply to wherever you are in the baby steps. Baby step four is 15% going into your retirement plans. You said you're already doing that. So five is kids' college and six is your home. And so you would either use that money towards your kids' college funds and invest it and resituate it in such a way like a 529 or whatever, or you'd put it towards your home.

Either one is fine because 4, 5, and 6 are done simultaneously. Are you doing anything towards kids' college? Yes, right now. We just started that a couple years ago, and then we still have to set up a 529 for that, but my husband did start saving for them. Okay, good. Well, so we've got that. So maybe step five, the box is checked, and then the only question is,

do you want to just enhance that, or do you want to throw it onto the mortgage? Either one will be fine. Either one will be fine. None of these are in the dumb column. Both of them are in the smart column. Kyle's in Kansas City. Hi, Kyle. How are you? Good. How are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? I've got a quick question. 32 years old, $73,000 in debt, about half of it school loans. The question is, 401k, I just found you guys guys so my wife and i are just starting baby step one i was looking to free up some cash and i was looking at my 401k currently i have 130 000

in my 401k um so my question is where should a 32 year old be with their 401k and then if i'm there i'm putting in nine percent my company is matching four so i'm getting 13 total should i back that down to the company match to give me some more cash in my paycheck to actually go after these loans yeah you said you're new to us what we teach folks to do is when they have debt other than their home to stop all investing, even the match, temporarily, temporarily, while you knock these debts out. What is your household income? $130,000 combined.

Okay. So, Ken? Yeah, absolutely. So, immediately stop investing in that 401k. You're already thinking through that. That's going to give you more cash in your paycheck, which means you fully fund that baby step one, that $1,000 immediately. And even if you can sell something, you're new to us.

So if you get $400 or $500 worth of stuff in the garage that you can move online, do that. But get that $1,000 right away and then step right into the baby steps. That second baby step is all about the debt snowball, the smallest debt all the way up to the largest debt and attack that smallest debt and then when you pay that off you roll that payment into the next one and that's where momentum really begins to build yeah that's exactly how it works and so the the the problem is when you're brand new to this stuff uh that that you freak out and go i'm gonna miss the match that

means i'm going to hell you know you can't the match. And so the match is like a big emotional thing. Listen, I don't want you to miss the match for long. And I'm saying temporarily, I want you to knock this debt out really, really, really ridiculously fast. And so, you know, a year, two years, something like that, you need to roll up your sleeves and punch this debt in the face and be done with it. Because you cannot win dragging Sally Mae around behind your car. She's just a dadgum anchor weight. So there you go. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Roger is with us. Roger's in Los Angeles. Hey, Roger, what's up? Hey, Dave, how are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. How are you? I'm doing just fine. Happy to be calling in today.

I have a question for you on spending your retirement account. I came down with Parkinson's in the spring of 16, and I had to retire from my job as an insurance adjuster in January of 18. Our retirement, so I'm fully retired. I get a small pension from the city I work for, and then I'm also taking Social Security starting this month. So I'll be bringing in around $30,000 a year. My wife is three years younger than me. I'm 62, she's 59. And we would like her to retire at some point in the near future. I have 1.825 million in my account. And, uh, I'm just wondering how, how do you decide how much you're going to spend out of it each month or each year? Absolutely incredible. Well done. Thank you. Well, i took your advice and i took i had some smaller

pensions that were going to pay me like four to six hundred dollars i took lump sums and got like 100 or 250 000 added to my ira so that helped a lot wow so. So how advanced is your Parkinson's? Well, when I retired, I had not come up with a medical solution to my tremors. So I was having major tremors when I worked. That's why I retired, because of the stress of my job. I since had a deep brain stimulator put in two years ago, which is pretty much taking care of my tremors, but I really can't work because I'm really tired all the time. I don't sleep well, and I'm starting to have balance issues.

So the odds of me working again are slimmed down. No, I wasn't asking for that reason. I was asking for quality of life, and I'm trying to figure out where you stood. So if I'm in your shoes the years that I've got left with your wife, I'm going to use some of this dadgum money that you worked your whole life for. That's what it's for. Okay. And so let's just pretend that it's making, I'll just throw out a number.

Let's just for round numbers. Let's say it made 10%. That's $180,000 a year. I think you ought to spend that and go do some of the stuff just throw out a number let's just for round numbers let's say it made 10 that's 180 000 a year i think y'all ought to spend that and go do some of the stuff and buy some of the things you've wanted to your whole life while you have the quality of the while you've got some timeline left in your quality of life okay she turns 59 and a half i think in february which then accesses her you know close to six to over $600,000 of hers. Yeah, I'd leave that alone.

Okay, well, true. What I was going to do is take my Social Security and plug it into her IRA or her 401K and just make it like 26% there. Well, you can, but my point is this money is for security. It's also for enjoyment. And while you've got quality of life timeline left with your wife, spend some money. Roger, I'm curious, what does she make? What is her salary in her job?

About $110, $120 a year. So let's say it's $110, and then you said you were making $30K through your pension, the city pension, plus Social Security. So right now you guys are living off of $140, correct? Yeah, we do a lot of giving, though, so we're giving like a third of that away. We support a bunch of missionaries in our church. Well, but Dave told you 180s. That gives you, if you pull 180 out, you know, he was giving you round numbers,

that still gives you guys a nice bump where you can give a little bit more, but also live some, too. I think you're in a great position. So I don't want you to look up seven years from now and the Parkinson's have advanced on you and you don't have the ability to go, physical ability to go enjoy some of this money that you've worked so hard for. This is what it's for. This is what it's for.

You really, I mean, you can spend $100,000 to $200,000 out of this account if it's invested wisely and not even make a dent and enjoy some time together. And that's exactly what I would do. Ride a bull named Fu Manchu, man. Yes, sir. This is what you do. Carpe diem. This is the Dave Ramsey personality joins me today today answering questions about career.

And I'll be talking to you about your life and your money on the debt-free stage. Right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Alex and Nakia are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi. Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live?

Richmond, Virginia. Wow, quite a trek down to Nashville. Thanks for being here. Thank you. And all the way here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? Yes, sir. We paid off $213,065.28 in 25 months and 3 days. Good for you.

Wow. And your range of income during that 2 years? It started at $108,000, went up to $148,8, and then back down to 130. Okay, cool. What do you all do for a living? We birth work at the same health care provider. I'm an auditor. I'm a registered nurse.

Okay, wow, very cool. That's a lot of debt. Yes, sir. What in the world? $213,000. What was that? Yes, sir. It was a couple vehicles, student loans, 401k.

We had two houses between us. One we sold and the other we paid off. Credit cards and $10,000 in medical expenses and a tax bill, which we also cash flowed. So you sold a house and you paid off the home you lived in. So you're debt-free house and everything. Yes, sir. Wow. Yes. Okay. So tell me your story. What happened here?

Okay. If I may back up just a little. During our engagement period five and a half years ago, we discussed being debt-free and we developed a plan on how we wanted to become debt-free. During that time, we also spoke with our pastor, Pastor Holt, who encouraged us to actually to combine our finances as well as do a budget. Good. When we got married, I had my house in North Carolina. That's the one we sold. And he had his house in Virginia, his bachelor pad. So during that time um fast forward to us getting married i actually um him and i we actually done a rent to own agreement with one of our family members

and uh we've done that and then um fast forward um the house actually three years ago um had a flood a pipe burst and it was a flood there oh no yeah so we had to pretty much um you know get involved and um family member to help start it to decline so then we started seeing like oh my gosh we have this thousand dollar monthly expense now plus the house in virginia so that was our never had i mean i had a moment so so everything's up for sale then yes we're selling everything for sure and then um we you know gave our family members we gave them options and then So everything's up for sale then? Yes, everything's up for sale. We're selling everything! For sure. And then we gave our family members, we gave them options. And then during that time, they were unable to get the house financed

and through their own name. So we decided, prayed about it, we were going to put the house on the market. And that's when we put the house on the market. But during that time, just with repairs, and I bought the house when I was single. And during that time, we spent like $21,000 with the repairs and everything, money that we didn't have. That's when the 401K loan came in. We had to get the HVAC system and all of that. So I had a friend from work, Rosalyn Robertson.

Her and her husband actually was here a few weeks ago with her sister. They did a debt-free screen here. So she introduced us to the program. She was like, hey, we can really have financial peace at our church. She said, Monday through Friday, 630, you and Alex are to come and join us. And I said, well, at the time, the schedule didn't work for us. So I started looking you up. I'm like, Dave Ramsey?

She was like, so this sounds familiar. Cause I remember when we first got married, Alex had a video, um, about 45 minutes of dumping debt. So we've done that. So during that time, we actually probably paid off for two years. We only paid off $10,000 that time. And I was like, well, this looks familiar. So this is more steps, financial peace. She sent me a photo and, um, I started researching you on google and um then i found the dave ramsey show which was exciting then i also noticed that you had a total money maker of a book and financial peace so i called the library and the library said they had the book i ran and got it so in two days then i said i think we would invest in this financial peace

and we invested into the course i found a local church that was offering it. Good. And that's where we met our coordinators, Adrian and Mike Parham. They're amazing. So we actually went to the class and we had that support there, and it was game on. I mean, at that time we were like, you know, we got to make a change. Alice got promoted during that time.

The job that we worked to a salary position it went to hourly ot opportunities and we just worked like non-stop after the flood it all broke loose yes sir oh man it all came together that's amazing yeah because i mean you'd had enough pain by the time you wander into that class you were ready to go yes and it was just so i mean i hear you there's only a certain amount of things that you can go over when you're in the station but that class it really helped us that financial piece having that accountability that support i mean it was huge yeah it's really huge yeah way to go you guys i'm so proud of you thank Thank you. Very well done. Alex, I was watching your face. Your wife's walking through all that.

I could see you. You were remembering some of the pain and the sacrifice. Yes. So what was one of the toughest things after you made the decision, you go all in, what was one of the toughest adjustments? Traveling back and forth to North Carolina to do the upgrades to the house. That was a real time where it was tiring, you know, getting up early, making that three-and-a-half-hour trip. And I remember one weekend we did a 48-hour.

We didn't sleep. We just consistently worked on upgrades and repairs. You know, I learned how to replace a toilet. You know, I'm not a really handy person. I have some basic knowledge of that stuff, but when I was going to it, I was like, well, I got to learn now. I got to figure out how to do this.

Truly, necessity was the mother of invention. It truly was. The mother of a YouTube search. How to replace a toilet in 14 minutes and 18 seconds. Oh, to replace a toilet. That's the truth. In 14 minutes and 18 seconds. Oh, my gosh. Wow, guys.

Very cool. So proud of y'all. Thank you. How does it feel now that you did all of this? Remarkable. Amazing. Now, you sold the North Carolina house. You sold the bachelor's pad.

Where do you live? No, we actually live in the bachelor's pad. Oh, you're living it. Yes. But you paid it off. Yes. I'm guessing it's no longer resuming a bachelor pad though oh no no definitely not yeah yeah so how's it feel not have a payment in the world oh

dave oh my gosh it is incredible the night we uh we paid off the house i was pacing the living room back and forth and i was looking at my fitbit and i saw my heart rate went up to like 116 i had to stop i had to stop and lay down and just get myself and gather myself, come under control because I was so worked up. I was so excited. I didn't know what to think or say. I love it. Yes, sir.

I love it. Well, very well done, you two. Thank you. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. Without a doubt, that's the next chapter in your story for sure. May I say something really quick, Dave? You sure can.

Thank you. And I just had to make some notes here just because I know we listen to you all every day. I mean, even on the weekends, it was nonstop. But I just wanted to say something to the listeners and the viewers, and I have my notes, and I'm going to try not to get emotional. But how to be successful first invest in yourself and your family there's been so much you can hear in the air I tell you what the return of investment of the 119 dollars we invested in financial peace it was just unbelievable it changed our life we went from baby step one to baby step seven in 25 months that's unbelievable that is um follow the plan like you

all said no deviations initially i wanted to didn't want to stop the 401k but alex said let's follow the plan so we went ahead and done that and now we have a positive net worth completely debt free and we finished sooner um be content our home now is like a thousand square feet and i've won another home but we already didn't say we're going to stay there until we're able to save to purchase that next home. Pay your tithes. God opened up so many doors. Like I said, Alex got promoted, and I went to the salary position.

Take your advice. Zander Insurance, I had a whole life policy because I have an autoimmune disease diagnosed with lupus years ago, and I had a whole life, and I'm like, I will never get approved again. Call Zender Insurance. They wrote me a policy as well as it was more money for the policy coverage amount. Plus, it was cheaper. And we also went through the EOPs. They saved us $750 a year. You're endorsing everything we do, but you got 30 seconds to do your debt-free scream. I love you.

You're awesome. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. I love you. You're awesome. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Glory to God. We are debt-free! I love these guys. They've done everything.

They what? Everything. I'm going to take the rest of the show off and let her co-host with you. Man, I'm telling you, she's got to dial in. Oh, that was amazing. This is the Dave Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about your career, your jobs, is my co-host today. So we're taking questions on career and certainly on money and life.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. Deja Vin is with us in Hughes, Arkansas. Hey, what's up? Hello, Dave. Hello, Ken. Nice to speak to both of you. You too. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm a first-time caller, so I might. No trouble, man. It's nice to speak to both of you. You too. Okay, I'm sorry.

I'm a first-time caller, so I might... No troubles, man. How can we help? I have a couple questions. So I am currently $5,306 in student loan debt, and I plan on moving out of my parents' house by next year around this time. And I currently work at Walmart, and I probably make around like $1,500 a month. And I was saying if it would be smart for me to go get a factory job in the same area, it would practically double my income. But my only concern with that is because it's not an essential job.

Like when the shutdown first happened in Arkansas, they closed down for like four or five months. So I was just trying to get your thoughts on that. So your concern is if you go get a second job and it's non-essential that it could go away, is that what I'm hearing? No, if I just leave Walmart and go do the factory job. Okay. Well, I think you should go do the job that is going to double the income. So yes, I think you should do that because you've got an opportunity to pay off a very small amount of debt, $5,300. You're going to move out. Your goal is to move out a year from

now. I think you could do that much faster. I absolutely would take it. Tell me why you're asking that. Is there some concerns you have about taking the factory job? Just because at the beginning of the pandemic, it was closed down. Sure. Well, you know, you can't really control things like that. That was out of your control. That was out of, in some ways, their control back then. And I think that with the rise of the vaccine and I think with the economy is on its way back, we're now at 6.3% unemployment. If you look at the nationwide numbers, I don't think you can make a decision based on the fear of what could happen there, because you've done a good job of showing up at

Walmart, you found hourly work, and you could do that again. But this is an opportunity. If it's right there in front of you, unless there's some other reason why you shouldn't do it, this is a no-brainer. Go do it. Pay off that debt quickly and save up so that a year from now, you know, you've got the baby steps in order, you've got your emergency fund, and then you can step right into your own apartment or your home, whatever you're going to do there. So, yeah, take it. Absolutely. And then that's not the last decision you make in your entire life.

Now you start looking for, okay, what is my long-term career and what am I going to move towards? Because it might not be at the factory. It might be. But I don't want you to end up 30 years from now still there because you never bothered to sit down and look at what you're supposed to be doing, you know, and some things along those lines as well. Ken, that 6% unemployment number says this. If you run a company or a city or a state that is not operating right now because of the pandemic, you are 94% wrong. That's exactly right.

It's good math, yes. Because the fact of the matter is that is taking in the entire country where you've got some states that are on virtual lockdown yeah 33 million people are in lockdown in los angeles alone yep and so uh you know the if you're if you are purporting to be a leader in government and you're not open by definition mathematically you are now 94% wrong. Well, Dave, there's a spike in our area. Yeah, and 94% of Americans are now working, and their businesses are running. And so, you know, if you aren't open or allowing people in your area to open, you are by definition mathematically wrong.

Yeah, let's look at where we were February before the pandemic, before we even realized it's a pandemic. We were at 3.4% unemployment, which was a historically low unemployment number. And we also had a very sound fundamentals. We had sound fundamentals in the economy. So now what you're seeing, despite all of the shutdowns, we've had rolling shutdowns open up. Now they're back down again. And we're also looking at, let's just look at the way the American economy runs here. We are a consumer economy. We essentially pass each other's money around in that we're so driven by the

service industries and the service industries are still getting hammered and a lot of those people are not working hourly wage earners uh people making the ones that are hurt the most the ones that are hurt that's about the only ones left that are still hurt by this that's right our entry-level people and people in the hospitality world that's right restaurants hotels right god help you if you're in the cruise line yeah uh those kinds of things where where everyone else is back moving in spite of government misbehavior that's correct in spite of and they're still and some restaurants are doing just fine and others aren't yes and it has to do with the local political climate and uh and and the the you know public giving each other the side eye in the name of political correctness is what this has become it really has become political that's

right uh it used to be medical but it has evolved into this so that that's very interesting to think about that you know we lost we had a 40 percent wasn't it, unemployment? No, we got to the spike in April, May. We're in that close to 30%, 31%, 32%. Yeah, 30% unemployment rate. The highest ever since we've been keeping records except the Great Depression. Without doubt. And then immediately it contracts back to about 12%. Nobody's talking about it.

Nobody. All they're talking about is stay inside. Right. But let's just imagine that if we get back to restaurants and vacations and people flying, you're going to see that number from 6.3%. You're going to see it get really, really low again. I'd prefer there were no people flying. I'd prefer they were in an airplane when they were flying. Well said.

You got me on the technicality. That's a good point people can't fly yeah i'm not aware of any new technology folks i didn't mean to break anything there uh erroneously on the dave ramsay show but here's the point that we're making i don't want you to not make a decision like this young man and i understand this question my point don't make a decision on what you think might happen as it might shut down again when i think in all reality uh let's see when the vaccine let's see what happens when the vaccine gets widely distributed i'm not going to get into what do you want to take it or not but when consumer confidence and

politicians confidence meet up together you're going to see a big roar in this economy this american economy is going to roar because people want to go somewhere and do things and eat outside or eat inside, for heaven's sakes. So when that happens, I think you're going to see production up big time, manufacturing up. You know, the trade economy is going to benefit. A friend was asking me, he said, where are all these bread lines? See people in line for food coming from us. Well, why don't we not have that in 2008? Because 2008 was more protracted and lengthened than this was.

That's right. And why is that? Well, it's because of who this hit. This hit the service industry. People cleaning the rooms in the hotels. People waiting the tables. Yes. People cooking.

In May, we saw a number, Dave, 40% in the month of May, at that point, 40% of people who made $40,000 or less had lost their jobs. That is extraordinary. This economic shutdown hit the lower socioeconomic rungs on the ladder the hardest. It's like this young man. He's just getting started, so he's on that rung, right? I've been on that rung. And the point of a ladder is to climb the ladder, so it's not insulting to anybody, okay? But if you are entry level you're

the one that's gotten hammered factory jobs where they just declared that the company was uh scared out of their bones and publicly traded pansies and wouldn't you know that wouldn't stay open wouldn't keep running and uh and they caused the loss of the jobs of thousands and thousands of people that needed the jobs the most. Food for thought for leaders out there, decision makers, politicians. Another of the hardest hit demographics in the American workforce is the working mother. Women who want to be moms but also pursue their professional career. And they've had to come home because of schools being closed. And it's really hurting women in the workplace.

Just to let you know, it's really hitting people that you don't expect to hit. So maybe the teachers should go back to work. There's a thought. Oh, my God. I don't know. I'm just old. I just, you know, work solves a lot of stuff for people because it's a surefire money-making scheme.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows, ask Dave money questions like, how do I invest my money, or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at daveramsey.com slash smart speaker.