The Ramsey Show - App - How You Can Set Yourself Up To Build Wealth

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

Dr. John Delony & George Kamel discuss: Preparing for life after college, Why you don't need to build your credit score, Getting your career on track, Helping aging parents. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from Nashville, Tennessee, in the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, where Americans hang out to have a conversation about your money and your life. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Campbell, and we're taking calls on relationships and money, mental health, retirement, whatever's going on in your heart and mind and in your home. Give us a shout, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Love doing shows with George. We're having a blast today. Let's go out to Ricky in Washington, D.C. What's up, Ricky? Hey there, John. This is Ricky here, and I just had a question about what I should do here next. I feel I have goals that are at odds with each other as

far as my career and finances go. I'd like to buy a home in the next few years, and I'd be able to propose to my girlfriend, but also I'm looking for a more fulfilling career calling than what I'm in right now. And I feel like it's a risky jump given that my new position at my current company could be a springboard into greater positions in the future. So I heard a lot of you feel. You feel like you want to do this so that you can. Let's pull some strings on some of this so what's your career right now i'm currently an outreach coordinator for a university okay and what do you hope that becomes someday you know i don't think i really want to work in higher education it sort of was a place that i landed in after my first job in college and i've been promoted

three times in just under three years there. So it's sort of just been something kind of working out for me here. But I feel as if maybe something more fulfilling would be in somewhere where I'm actually able to see the results of my work. And I've been thinking about construction management, but that would involve me kind of starting from square one again. Okay. And so why don't you start from square one? Because where I'm at right now, I have fantastic benefits. I'm not getting paid the most here, but like I said, my current role seems to be a springboard into something that maybe gets me up the ladder and will allow me to move horizontally into into a position and again you hit the nail on the head it's an i feel statement i i i'm not

100 sure that if i get into something like construction management that it will be my you know my thing um and it yeah i may end up moving moving you know onward again from there. Yeah, one of the core tenets of counseling is this phrase, the tyranny of accomplishing all of your dreams. The worst part about getting this new job is that you're going to go with you. And the worst part about getting promoted and getting a horizontal position change is that you're going to keep moving there. What does that mean if you hate your job you don't have any purpose there's no amount of benefits that are going to keep you

asleep at night those things are going to leak out all over your new marriage all of your kids all it's just going to become you're going to feel your soul compressed and so in one hand you have this vision of i want to do something outside of, and you've allowed yourself to dream a little bit. And on the other side, you feel shackled to great benefits. How old are you? I'm 24 years old. Bro, you are too young to be chained. Way too young.

And I want to press in on this. Why do you have to buy a house before you propose? I, it's kind of something that I want to do, um, just to kind of have something set up for us in our, in our early years and not, you know, be renting. And I also just want to build equity as soon as possible. What's wrong with renting while you get to know your new spouse? Renting is extraordinarily expensive and, and I feel it's throwing money away. And being a homeowner, so cheap. So cheap, man. And I have no data to back this up. I just know I'm right.

It's not wise to buy a house, and then get engaged, and then get married. You know why? Because you'll be buying another house very soon after that. She's going to say, why did you pick this house? It's not the right yard. I don't like this house. The cabinets are wrong. Or not even that. Just why did you buy this house? It's not the right yard. I don't like this house. The cabinets are wrong. Or not even that.

Just why did you buy this house? I thought we were doing life together. Or this was your house. We want to have an our house. Whatever that's going to be. Man, I think you've got things out of order. Here's what it feels like to me. You have a picture of the way things are.

And you have a picture of the way things, the way you want them to be. And you are trying to keep a foot in one and trying to lean over and look at the other one. Exactly. Brother, you just got to back up and make a, what's the today plan? You've got time too, man. It feels like everything's like, I'm 24, man. I'm running out of time. Dude, everyone in the lobby, they're sitting there going, come on, dude.

He's 24. You can do this at 28. You can do it at 32. The other day, Sean, I'm sorry. The other day, Ricky, I was doing an interview and somebody said, what would you go back and tell your 21-year-old self? And I'll tell you what I told them. Okay. If I could go back and tell my 21 to 25-year-old self, here's what I would say. Chill out. It's cool, man. If you love her, get engaged and get married. Y'all will figure out your crappy first apartment and go to your crappy first get married. Y'all will figure out your crappy first apartment

and go to your crappy first rent house and y'all will figure that out. If you are interested in moving up in higher ed, go meet with somebody who has the job that you think that you might want. What would it be like on this side of the fence? Could I find purpose there in this job? Go meet with them

and then go find somebody who works in construction and ask about the life and the hours and the stress and the money and find out. Just sit down and have cups of coffee and here's what you're doing. You're taking your feelings and you're acknowledging them and then you're setting them down on the table and then you're going to get data. And data

is really important for some of these messy I don't know man, I don't know. Just get some real information. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you for free, I'm going to send you, for free, I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's career assessment that says, hey, here's some things that sound like or speak into your soul

and that you would find purpose and meaning in and that would help you, direct you towards a meaningful career. I'm also going to send you a copy of his book From Paycheck to Purpose. Read that and then, dude, go get engaged, man. Go get engaged. All right, let's go to Sean in Albany, New York. Sean, what's up? Hi. Can you guys hear me all right? Absolutely. What's up?

Okay, so I'm graduating from college in about six weeks, and I just want to make sure I'm getting the right steps down for my future. I'm currently on baby step number four, and I have an interview coming up. Nice. So you've no debt coming out of college, and you've got a fully funded emergency fund. Yes. I have about a $64,000 net worth right now. Nice. You're way ahead of most people your age. Good for you, man. So what are you talking about? How do I prepare? What's your question? Well, I just want to make sure that I am in the right financial situation between, right now I'm living at home. Do I get an apartment because it is a 45 minute drive

to work every day? Yes. And like how much am I actually going to be putting into my retirement if I have an apartment or if I'm staying at home? Either way, same amount. 15% of your income, once you get that job, should be going into a 401K, an IRA, things of that nature. And don't count your chickens before you hatch. Wait until you get the job before you start spending that money. Yes.

Okay. And my new job also offers a 401k, and right now I have about $21,000 in a Roth IRA. Which one should I be focusing on putting my money into? Leave the Roth IRA there. We can fully fund the Roth IRA. We can do the 401k. Take the match first. Then we're going to move to all the Roth options.

Then we're going to move back to the 401k if it's traditional. And stop spending money you haven't earned yet. Chill out. This is going to be a fun process. And yes, when you get the job, then get yourself an apartment right by work and love it. We'll see you soon. We'll be right back. folks listen up i know some of y'all are putting off getting life insurance because rates went up restrictions were added due to COVID,

but it doesn't change your responsibility to take care of your family. Lucky for you, insurance companies are lowering their rates again, and there are more options than ever to let you skip the medical exam. Yes, it's actually easier than it was before all this mess. So now is the time to get it done. If you don't have term life insurance or not enough, you need to take the step, take care of this, and let the team at Zander Insurance help. I've used and recommended Zander for over 20 years because they shop the top term life companies

to find you the best rates, and they keep coming up with new ways to make the whole process faster and simpler. Apply online or over the phone. Sign with electronic or voice signature. No exams. It just doesn't get any easier. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It really is time to get this done. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

And George, it's about time you've got a new product out into the market. What is it? Yes, John. I've been here nine years. Nothing has my name on it. And you've got 17 things with your name on it. You've been here for four minutes. And I'm incredible.

But go ahead. So it's about time. I'm excited to announce this today, guys. A new product to help you with your money. Because let's face it. Purses are bulky. Wallets cause back problems. We all have seen George Costanza. But fanny packs are where it's at, people. So I'm excited to announce the George Camel Fanny Pack Cash Envelope System. Let's show them that photo. Oh, there it is. The tagline, you'll love this, John,

waste your money. W-A-I-S-T. Little pun there. John is not impressed. For a limited time, you can order my new fanny pack cash envelope system and literally keep your money front and center. Another pun that John did not like. So you just straight up ripped off a kangaroo and you're going to try to just sell this as a product. That's not, they didn't invent fanny packs. Agree to disagree on that one.

Well, here's what mine includes that the kangaroos don't. A medium quality nylon exterior. Excellent. A.K.A. it looks kind of shiny and it will last at least a month before it wears off. Excellent. It has external zippers to secure your cash, your coins, and your high-end hair products because you've got to stay fresh. You get that.

So fresh and so clean clean. And on top of that, two pockets large enough for a small chinchilla or a couple slices of avocado toast. You can throw those in there. Is that about the size of your two dogs? My French Bulldogs? Let's not bring them into this, John. Not in front of the kids.

Not in front of the kids. And lastly, it has a secret compartment for Pokemon cards. The original cryptocurrency. The original. It meant nothing, and it cost everything. Okay? That's what this is. So order one today, and stash your cash in style.

Now, caveat, before you go calling our Ramsey Concierge customer service team going, I got to have mine, where can I get one? Let's just stop you right there. Not one person will make that call. There will be no people that make that call. There was at least one hipster out there who was like, I'm kind of down for that. Dude, I've been wanting something for my Pokemon cards. I'll be honest.

I used to wear fanny packs. I have one. Ironically, as a hip cards. I'll be honest. I used to wear fanny packs. I have one. Ironically, it's a hipster. I travel with one. Oh, boy. Well, for those wondering, if you haven't tuned out by now and turned off your radio or YouTube, this was an April Fool's joke. I'm sorry, John. But I think a lot of people out there, if you're really interested, let me know on Instagram at George Camel.

We posted it over there. I want to see all your comments so I can show them to Dave and say, Dave, people want this product. And I will take that piece of wisdom and I will take it one step further. If you think, you know what I really need is the new George Camel fanny pack. I'd like to direct you to BetterHelp.com where they've got online therapy where you can see somebody for the things that you're struggling with. I think that would be fantastic. Let's go to Garrett in Pocatello. What's up, Garrett? How are we doing? Garrett, you there? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. What's up, man?

Hey, so me and my wife, we just got married about two months ago. And so we're having the conversation of finances. I mean, we already had it before we got married. But she wants to get credit cards to build like a credit history so that way one day we can buy a house. And so I've grown up with Dave Ramsey and understand that it's not necessarily good to do that. And so I was just wondering, how can I help her understand what I've come to learn and figure out for myself so that we don't necessarily have to do that or that we get a house without having to do that? That's a great question. And where your wife's coming from is just believing a myth that's been around for a long time that at 18 years old, we got to open the credit card to build a credit score, to get the car loan, to get more debt, to get more debt,

to get the house. And I'm guessing you know about a little thing called manual underwriting or a no score loan. And this means we don't need the credit score to get the home. And our friends at Churchill do these all the time. And here's what this looks like. You can paint her the picture or she can go listen to the episode we did on the dirty truth behind your credit score on the fine print and the episode on credit card rewards. But all it requires is a real person looking at your real financial picture. Because right now there's automated underwriting, which is where the robots say, yeah, this person is worthy because they made all their debt payments. With manual underwriting, it's a real guy, a real gal looking

at your financial picture, looking at your housing payments for the last two years, looking at a history of deposits from your bank account, looking at your cell phone payments, your life insurance policies, payments of medical bills, anything you've made payments on to go, oh, okay, John is a good guy, stand-up guy. He makes his payments on time. We will give him this 15-year fixed rate mortgage. And so all it takes is a little bit of education on her part. And then she needs to be on board with saying, hey, we don't need to touch debt because the only reason to get a credit score is because we want more debt. And the only thing we would tell you, the only debt we don't get mad at you for is that 15-year fixed rate mortgage. And so if she needs

some education on that, I did some deep dives on this. I called apartments all over the country asking them if I needed a credit score. I talked to an expert at Churchill Mortgage who did a deep dive on manual underwriting. So go listen to that episode with her and then have a really great conversation about what this looks like for you going forward. Hey Garrett, how long have y'all been married, man? Two months. We got married about two months ago. Awesome. So your belated wedding present from me and George and the Ramsey gang, we're going to give you and your new wife one year subscription to Ramsey Plus.

But here's the caveat. You have to watch the videos, the FPU videos together, the Financial Peace University course videos together. Will you agree to do that? Yeah, definitely Financial Peace University course videos together. Okay? Will you agree to do that? Yeah, definitely. I will definitely do that. We'll get on that right away.

And it will come with the EveryDollar app and all the cool stuff that comes with it. And make sure you check out George's episode. And he walks – I mean, you do a great job walking through that. Thank you, John. It's great. Very kind. Let's go to Coleman in Virginia Beach. What's up, Coleman?

Hey, how's it going, guys? First, I'll say thanks for all y'all do. You really changed my whole mindset on money over the last year in a good way. Thank you, my brother. What's up? Got a little dilemma. Hey, we're running up against the clock, so get right to the question there. I'm sorry.

My boss is coming to me and asking me to put in for a position, and I did, and I got an interview on Thursday. But I overheard them say something a few months ago, and it really kind of killed my morale, and I really don't trust them. But it is – will kind of lead me to where I want to be, but I'd probably have to stick it out working for somebody I don't really trust for the next few years. What'd you hear? I just did a really big job at work

and kind of gave the credit to somebody else that had nothing to do with it. Okay. Did you ask your immediate supervisor about it? Well, he's the one that said it. Why do you think they did that? I don't know. Was there malicious intent here?

Did they know that it was to your credit, and they said, no, we're not going to give it to them? I think possibly, maybe. And at the same time, they're promoting you into a bigger role. Well, they asked me to put in for the position. And it's a better position. See, that's the thing. It's like, I don't know that I would necessarily make more money

because there wouldn't be overtime involved, but, I mean, a base salary would be more, but... I just don't want you to assume malicious intent because you overheard something. Or I don't want you to... And I didn't hear the whole conversation. I just heard a want you to assume malicious intent because you overheard something. Or I don't want you to... And I didn't hear the whole conversation. I just heard a little snippet. That's right.

And I also don't want your ego. But I worked really hard on this thing, too. If you work hard for the praise, man, your life's going to be hollow. If you work hard... That's the thing. I didn't want... I would have rather than give the praise to everybody instead of just one person. You know,

it was like a five-man job. Yeah. Here's the thing. If you can't trust your supervisor, if you look in the mirror at night and say, I cannot trust this person,

then you can't work for them because nothing in business works if there's not trust. That's just a period at the end of that sentence. You can disagree with your boss. You can get angry

with your boss. You can storm out and be like, I can't believe it. And then be back on Monday. If you don't trust your supervisor and your leadership team, you can't work there, man. They'll take your soul from you. I have, I hear what you're following, George. And I side with George here. It doesn't make sense to me that they would say, Hey, we've got, we've identified you. We want you to put in for this position. We think you'd be great for it. And at the same time, they'd be maliciously undercutting you somewhere else.

That sounds like an afternoon school special villain, right? Most bosses aren't doing that. My guess is you either misheard or your pride's a little bit wounded, or maybe they just were making it simple and said, yeah, I'd like to thank George, right? Whatever that is, man, make a decision. Can I trust this leadership or not? And if they ask you to apply, I say apply. See what happens.

We'll be right back. Thank you. And on the debt-free stage, we've got Danielle and Samantha. Good to see you. So I'm assuming you're here to do your debt-free scream. Yes, sir. Where are y'all in here from? Hastings, Minnesota. Minnesota, fantastic. And how much have you paid off?

$85,000. $85,000. How long did it take? Two years. Two years. That's a lot of money. What was your range of income during this time? We started at $80,000, and then we went to $125,000,

and since we paid off debt, we're at $130,000. Whoa. What do y'all do for a living? I am a mental health therapist. Hey-o. Yep. Awesome. And I'm an accountant.

Oh, I bet y'all's dinnertime conversations are a blast. It's great. Fantastic. I'm just kidding. It's wonderful. So what accounts for this? You see what I did there? What accounts for this big jump in income? I recently just got a promotion at work for the clinical director position at the community mental health clinic. Thank you very

much. And then I changed jobs. That gave us a little boost as well. That's outstanding. Good for you guys. So what type of debt was this $85,000? The majority of it was student loan debt, and then we had two car loans. Two car loans. Was it the graduate school? Yeah. Yeah. It's expensive.

Oh, man. All right, so what happened? Take us back 24 months ago, two years ago, that spurred you on this journey? So actually three years ago, Sam and I went to a conference with Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz and Chris Hogan was there as well. And that kind of got us interested in doing something about the debt we knew we were going to have when we got married. And we get married, get some cash gifts, We have this income. That's great. So we decided to do something about it. Took a financial piece and then just powered through it.

That's the most accounting answer I've ever heard. Well, we went to this thing and then the next thing we did was play. They gave us seven steps. We said, okay, let's do it. I think that he's skipping over some pieces. I assume so. He's been talking to me about Dave Ramsey. So we've been together for roughly nine years now.

Wow. Okay. Married for about two and a half. Okay. He's been talking to me about Dave Ramsey for the past like five years. Okay. And he's like, when we get married, we're going to do this, this, and this. And I'm like, eh, I don't really want to do that.

But whatever. If it makes you happy, we can do it. And then we got Financial Peace University from this conference that we went to with Dave Ramsey. We got it as a gift to ourselves. It's like a pre-wedding thing. And then we took Financial Peace University. I think our first class started the Sunday we got back from our honeymoon. And then we kind of just went from there. So how did you ultimately buy in? Um, he told, so I'm a spender. Let's just throw that out there right now. Um, he had told me that it was a way for me to spend as much money as I

wanted to, and then also keep him happy. That may be the greatest line. It was wonderful. What a sales pitch. It worked because here we are. And I do spend as much money as I want to. In the budget. In the budget. Everything is budgeted. It gives you the freedom to spend without the guilt. 100%. Oh, that's incredible.

See, I mean, would you consider yourselves kind of opposites in a lot of ways? Absolutely. Yeah. He's an accountant. I'm a therapist. Facts and feelings. You got a little bit of everything in there. Yep.

Oh, that's awesome. You went on the same plane. So this has been something'm a therapist. Facts and feelings. You got a little bit of everything in there. Yep. Oh, that's awesome. You went on the same plan. So this has been something that's been in your heart and mind. Who introduced you to the plan? My parents went, took a financial piece with a family friend of theirs. And Dave Ramsey is just a name I've heard through the years. Wow. Oh, go ahead.

I'm just wondering, this $85,000, two years, I mean, you guys were busting it for a while. What were the sacrifices you made along the way? Some of the hard things were like, gosh, I don't want to do this. I don't want to sell this. I don't want to work extra. What were those things for you? Definitely, it was really looking at our budget where we were spending extra money. So going out to eat was huge.

I mean, there was one month, I think, that we had dropped over $1,000 on going out to eat. And so we out to eat was huge. I mean, there was one month, I think that we had dropped over $1,000 on going out to eat. And so we had to just stop that completely. And we would do like a few date nights here and there where we would go to like Applebee's and we would get like their trio of appetizers and just split that and then we would just go home and have like popcorn and watch a movie or whatever. But it was kind of just really combing through the budget and just making sure that we were actually spending our money on what we wanted to spend it on. In accounting terms, you did an audit of the budget.

You started paying attention to what was going on. Yes. And then I picked up a few side jobs at a restaurant, Applebee's actually. Yes. I was officiated. Free appetizers, right? Right, yeah. And then was officiated. Free appetizers, right? Right, yeah.

And then I officiated youth awards too. Very cool. Yeah, you sat down in between shifts and had an appetizer and you got back up and went and served to the tables. Oh, that's awesome. That was pretty much. So what was, take us back to your best firework show, the best argument you two got in during this 24-month journey.

I would say that it was was I had overspent. This was like in the beginning of like budgeting, and I had overspent in a category. And we were like four months in, and this was the first time that I had gone over. And Daniel was just like, we have to stick to our budget. I can't believe that we didn't stick to our budget. I'm like, this is the first time in four months that I've gone over.

Like you should be proud of me that I've made it this far. And he was like, holy crap, you're right. I am proud of you for making it this far. But that was kind of like the biggest moment of, wow, this actually works. And we can work together as a team when it comes to money. And we can both have what we want. And Daniel, just for the record, that was some mental health gymnastics she did all over you just then. Like, let's reframe this.

Look how great I've done. And you were like, yeah, you're right. Yeah. She does that every once in a while. Did you guys have any cheerleaders along the way? Definitely our parents. They were like, you know. Finally. About time, man. Parents, couple friends,

couple co-workers. Tell me what it felt like. The reality is you're making six figures. Your wife's got a great job. You've got a great job. And you're working as a server at Applebee's. There's got to be some moments that you're just banging your head up against the dashboard as you pull into your third job, right?

Tell people what's going through your mind. How do you feel? I just weigh, you know, this is what i'm doing right now this shift will be over in two or three hours but it's getting us that much closer to building our life together wow and um you know now that we're debt free we just had a baby and sam can take the full 12 weeks off and we don't need to worry about extra payments wow that's amazing it's just not big deal. Wow. So you were willing to have the temporary sacrifice, and you said, hey, this is for a short time so that we can have long-term freedom.

Yes. It's powerful. So if you're talking, not so if, you are, you're talking to a couple, you're talking to millions of couples right now who are thinking, I can't do this. If you were to say, here's the key to getting out of debt, for you couples who are just getting married, just start this. Here's the key. What would it be?

I think it's just getting up and doing it. A lot of people think, well, do I want to do this or do I want to do this? I don't want to cut out restaurants that much. Dave Ramsey's not for me. But if you just get up and do it, that's the only way you'll ever get debt free. And I think that communication is honestly the key here. You know, just saying like, you know, this is really hard. And Daniel being like, yeah, it is hard. And just having someone there to like kind of suffer with you as you're going through. And then like really looking at the goal of like, I'm going to be here.

This is temporary. Eventually we'll be done and we'll be able to do whatever the heck we want to do communicate and just get up and do it i absolutely love that well daniel and samantha y'all are officially weirdos and we are so glad you're in the gang and you have changed your family tree you got two little ones sierra and penelope are they with you today they are Do you want to bring them up on stage? Here they come. Oh, they are little, little.

And we have some things for them, John. What do we have? Yes. What do we have, Bob? We've got a copy of Everyday Millionaires, because that's your next step in your journey. We also have a copy of Total Money Maker, that you all can give to some friends.

As you all bounce these two beautiful little babies, we're going to do the debt-free scream. Daniel and Samantha paid off $85,000, making $80,000 to $130,000 in two years, changing their lives in Minnesota forever. Count them down. Let's do it here. A debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! And the crowd goes wild. And the kids stop. The babies stop crying. Yeah, they do. They found out they're dead free, John.

Oh, my goodness. Every once in a while, a baby hears applause and says, You mean? And their life direction is forever changed. I love it it that's incredible daniel and samantha pitt $85,000 communicating and just deciding let's just do it let's just don't over complicate it let's just do it how do you lose weight diet and exercise do it how do you get a debt do it on a budget pay it off congratulations Congratulations. This week we announced that our Building Wealth live event is coming to both Vegas and Orlando this May.

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Let's go to Brian in Lancaster. Hey, Brian, what's up? Hello, hello. You guys there? Yes, sir. What's up, man? Cool. Hey, so calling today, first of all, just for my other people around here, it's around here.

It's Lancaster. I was going to fix it, Brian, but John was too far gone. Lancaster. That's all right. You got it. Yep. All right. Anyway, so praise God, my wife and I are actually okay financially.

We follow your principles. We love everything you guys say, and we try and hold to them. I'm actually calling today in regards to my parents. So they are pretty, I mean, it's hard to say, but they're pretty financially irresponsible. And I say that out of love because I really do want to help them. They don't really have a whole lot of retirement savings. They're 57 and 58. So, you know, they're kind of running out of time. They don't have a whole lot of retirement savings. And I'm just curious, what's the best way for me

to go about helping them? I did once sit down with my mom to try and make a budget. She seemed really excited about it at the time, but then quickly, nothing really changed. And I know it's my job. I can't, it's not my job to change them. I know I can't go in there and do anything like that, but I'm just curious if you guys have any advice on what the best way to help them would be. Who runs the money in your parents' home? Is it your dad or your mom? My mom does. Your mom does? And so she got excited about the budget.

What happened? That's a great question. We drafted a whole document. She sat down. She was really excited about it. And then that document kind of stayed in the same place. Okay. So in my experience,

conversations about how you should be handling your money and conversations about sex between kids and parents, especially from the kids to the parents, never go well. They just – like, hey, you know what you should be doing? Parents go, I'm going to stop you right there. Okay? Yeah. There is a place for the conversation, and it could be around a will. It could be a conversation around, hey, long-term care insurance. Where are we at?

It could be a conversation about I'm worried about the next 15, 20 years. My wife and I were sitting there. There's some of those conversations that are less about tactics, less about you know what y'all should be doing and more about, I love you and I'm scared. Or I, my wife and I have been having hard conversations about, Hey, who's going to keep the kids and who's going to be in the will. I want to sit down with you guys and to see where things are. It's best if we have these conversations and if y'all don't want to have them, y'all are grownups, you don't have to have them. But, um, I'm interested in what are y'all thinking about retirement? What are you thinking about? Where's your wills?

Where do y'all keep those kind of things? You know what I mean? So you're going to have a series of these hard conversations all based in love, not based in y'all need to get your crap together. I'm feeling a few things here. I feel like you care more about their retirement than they do. Right. And on top of that, they don't want to hear your opinion. So I might go, hey, why don't want to hear your opinion. So I might

go, hey, why don't you work with a financial coach? Would they be willing to meet with a financial coach who can then look at their picture and go, oh, you guys are screwed. We got to make a game plan here or else you're going to be living off of social security and canned food for the rest of your life. So I think they need to have a spark of urgency. Right. I was definitely considering setting them up with a smart investor pro as well. I was definitely considering setting them up with a SmartVestor Pro as well. I was just curious from your guys' experience if setting someone up with that that didn't come on their own was counterproductive. It's not counterproductive if it's done out of love,

but it's like me making you an appointment to go to counseling. You can be like, all right, dude, thanks. And then when you get to counseling, you're like, I don't know. My friend made this appointment for me, so here we are. It might go fine. I mean, there may be some value

in the conversation, but it's different than somebody says, looks in the mirror and says, I got to make some changes. Like, I've got to, things have to be different and I'm going to take this leap. It might be this.

So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you a copy of Total Money Makeover, just free. And I'm going to let you hand that to your parents and say, I love you. It's a book for y'all. If you want to talk about it, this book's changed their life. And I'd love to sit down.

And again, this is a conversation about love. This is a conversation about just we need to go through some of the bullet points of life. And it's not about here's where y'all have screwed up. My guess is george they do they do know about the retirement situation and they're probably terrified and a lot of us when we get terrified it shuts our body down head in the sand well yeah i mean i would even say it's a moral character issue as much as a body just says we can't do that i don't have the tools for that and one of the greatest ways to help somebody out of that moment that

paralyzed fear is to say i love you and i'm sitting down having a conversation and that can bring some of those walls down and someone could say okay i need some help um and just know brian if they're not unable to do that it's not because you failed them it's not it's that's a them problem it's not a brian problem right it's not a magic thing you didn't say. It's years and years and years of living a certain way. They are lucky, lucky to have you as their son. It's fantastic. Let's go to Michaela in Phoenix. Hey, Michaela, what's up?

Hey, how are you? Excellent. What are you up to? Well, I have a question for you all. My mother-in-law has a beautiful, beautiful home, four bedrooms, three baths, and then she also has an in-law suite. And we have been toying with the idea for the last few months of my husband and myself and our two kids moving into the main house and having her, and she would move into the mother-in-law unit, which is completely detached from the house. And it would allow us to sell our

home and probably make about $200,000 that we could put in the bank and just sit there and add to it for however long we decide to stay in that situation. And I'm wondering if it's a good idea. My husband is all in, and I'm on the fence about it. Why are you on the fence? You know her better than anybody. No, this is your mother-in-law. My mother-in-law, yeah. Okay, so why are you on the fence about it. Why are you on the fence? You know her better than anybody. No, this is your mother-in-law. My mother-in-law, yeah. So why are you on the fence about it?

So my mother-in-law and I get along really well. She's wonderful. No, no, no. Why are you on the fence about it? I'm worried about not getting along. With who? With her? With your husband? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm worried about there being conflict. Yes. And not being able to, and just being in an uncomfortable living situation, which is, you know, not fun for anyone. So what's the reason for this? Is it a financial thing? Are you trying to get out of a big pile of debt? No, we don't have a big pile of debt. Actually, we have a pretty small amount of debt. We have two kids, seven and a month old, and our house is super tiny, so it would give us more space. It would allow us to save a ton of money over the next several years so that we could hopefully put a significant down payment on our future home if that situation doesn't end up working out in the long term.

So I would... It has... Go ahead. Okay, so we're running up against the clock here, so here's my thoughts. Okay. If you do this, you sit and y'all write everything out here's how we're gonna handle conflict here's how um here's how we're gonna do christmas here's how we're gonna do thanksgiving here's how we do the bills yeah here's gonna pay what and how and here is for how long we're gonna do this so we're gonna do this for two and a half we're gonna do it for three years we're going to do this. So we're going to do this for two and a half. We're going to do it for three years. We're going to have this much money at the end.

This thing comes to an end. Otherwise, it feels like a breakup. It feels like the relationship ends up in ash. She gets sick of living out in her own backyard, and she wants to move back into her house. All that gets messy. If you're going to do it, I don't have a problem with it, but make sure everybody's on the same page,

and it's clear, and there's a period at the end of the sentence. Time runs out. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.