The Ramsey Show - App - I Can’t Afford My Mortgage (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel with me today in another fine-looking shacket. He's ready to go. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Now, we're talking about serious stuff here, but George and I like to have fun with it. We can mix the two.

So when we get together, we try to have some fun. Let's have some fun today as we talk about the about serious stuff here, but George and I like to have fun with it. We can mix the two. So when we get together, we try to have some fun. Let's have some fun today as we talk about the very serious stuff. George is our resident money expert, and I'm your resident income expert. I want to help you make more money, and George wants to help you do good stuff with it. So we're going to get right to it, and I'm going to tease this, George. Okay. At some point in the show, our fearless leader, James Childs, will tell me. I'm going to – we're going to get political.

Whoa. That's all I'm going to say. Is this dangerous territory? Should I be – No. As a matter of fact, I think the audience is going to love it because it's a unifying statement, and it has to do with money, George. Okay. How about that? We can all agree on that.

So now everybody can take a deep breath. There's not going to be anything controversial. No vitriol. No vitriol and nothing controversial, but it is that time of year, George. And so more on that a little bit later. But first, let's get right to the phones. Heather is going to start us off in Knoxville, Tennessee. Heather, how can we help? Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. My aunt, who was in her mid-70s, she's been a widow for about seven years now, has been the victim of a romance scam, we just found out. Oh, gosh. Is this like the catfishing that we hear about? Yes. On Facebook, a guy had reached out to her and she'd been talking to him for about a year. We found out and we said, you know, this is a lot of red flags.

We think this is a scam. Whatever you do, do not send this guy any money and you don't need to talk to him anymore. But she did not listen to us. And we just found out that she has lost at least $23,000 in credit card charges that we know of. We don't know if there's more or not. Oh my goodness. So she didn't send him money. She racked up debt in her name and bought him stuff?

Yes, and then sent him the money. So we are trying to figure out what to do. She lives off of Social Security. She only brings in about $1,200 a month. Her whole bank account was cleaned out, and we're just trying to figure out how to go forward from here. Before we get to the money part, I just have to ask, is there any potential help from Facebook and any of this or the credit card company on this? I mean, that's a good question. I have a feeling that it's from overseas because she was buying a bunch of $500 minute cards for phones that she was sending him.

So that makes me feel like it's out of a lot of jurisdictional hands. Okay. Yeah, it's rare that anything can be done about this stuff. I just had to ask. I am just, my stomach is turned here for you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's horrible. Have you reported the crime at least to your law enforcement's non-emergency number and

at least have this on file? Yes. They've reported it. They're going to be getting all the details. I'm not sure how much they can help those since she took out loans and her name and things. They're going to go, hey, this isn't fraud. You did this. Yeah. So, but at least it's on file and maybe they can, you know, track this scumbag or who's doing this. You can also report it to the state attorney, FTC, at least to make yourself feel a little better.

But the truth is we're going to have to rebuild ourselves here. Let's pretend like nothing is going to come from any of this. What about this credit card debt? Have we cut up grandma's credit cards yet or your aunt's? Well, we're trying to. Just trying to. I don't know if we've gotten the full picture yet. But, yeah, we're going to get the booze credit cards canceled.

Her bank account, they had to close the bank account because what had happened was that she was going to get reimbursed by this guy. So we sent her a check, which she deposited, and it cleared for a few days. And then it's back. Well, yeah, he wanted a certified check out of that. So she turned around and wrote a certified check because the bank thought she had the funds, and then it cleared out everything that she had left, plus she went into negative once they realized it was a fraudulent check. So they canceled that bank account, so it's like she doesn't even have that at bank anymore.

So everything is just a bad thing. So she has a new bank account now? Well, we're going to have to set one up. And her son is on the bank account, so everything is... So she has a new bank account now? Well, we're going to have to set one up. And her son is on the bank account, so that is one good thing. But I don't know if we have the ability to... I don't know if she should have access to an account, if that's even an option. Does she realize what has happened? I think on some level, but I'm afraid on another level,

she hasn't really processed it because she keeps thinking that he's going to send her the money like he promised. Even now, it's very sad. How old is she? She's about 75. Is she having struggles with just mental acuity? I think she's just very, very lonely. And you're the niece. Where are your cousins at in all of this?

They are around. Unfortunately, they don't have a lot of financial security to help in this instance. But my aunt's sister, so my mom and everyone are trying to kind of gather around her and help where they can to help her get out of the negative on a lot of her bills. But that's about all that we can do. Okay, so were you calling us for ideas, or were you calling us for some type of approval on something you're thinking about? That's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

I'm wondering, is it moral or ethical for us to say, just don't try to pay back these credit cards, put those aside, and just let them go into collections, and maybe at that point she can settle for tens on the dollars if she will even have that money at that point, or do we wait until... She truly does not have the money, and so I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, listen, she was a victim of fraud. This is what happened. She doesn't have the money. She's living off of $1,200 in Social Security.

It'll be, you know, she'll be $128 by the time this thing gets paid off. Yeah, I agree. And the truth is, Heather, she needs to cover her four walls first. I do not give a rip about the credit card companies. She's got to make sure she's got food on the table, utilities are covered, her housing is covered. Transportation is covered. And the other thing you need to do is, number one, cut up her cards. And then second, you need to put a freeze on all of her credit. So all three credit bureaus put a freeze on it so that no one can open up account, including her. Yeah.

I agree with that. I'd do that instantly. I think the son does need to manage the money from here on out. Absolutely. She's shown that she's incapable, and she's still not even convinced this is fraud, which means it can continue to happen if we continue to give her access to more money. Absolutely.

Okay, now that's a great point, freezing all of her accounts for the credit-wise. And do we need to get her to sign something for us to be able to do the money? Because I think she does have her mental faculties other than this gigantic blind spot. But is that, or would we just set up a new account? You might need a financial power of attorney unless they both say, hey, this is a joint checking account.

The son is on it. Mom is on it. If we do it that way, you'll be fine. Okay. This feels like a family meeting, though. But, yeah, this needs to be a, the fact that the niece is calling and tells me, number one, you really love your aunt, which is so sweet. Yeah. But I think we need to have a big family meeting, go, here's the next steps that we're going to take.

And you lay all of that out that we just talked about. Yeah. If this were my aunt or my mom, there would be an absolute come to Jesus meeting to make sure she understands she's been scammed. And this is not real. And let's address the loneliness as well um but man we got to rebuild here and i would this is a community thing if they're if you're involved in a church uh or a good community i think you know you go to people and say let's help her out maybe even third party counseling but protect her by the way before we help her or else all those good deeds george and all that money raised for her is going to go back out the window on the next thing. Wow. Tough call. Don't move. We'll

be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me this hour, 888-825-5225. All right, so we've been talking about this for a while, George, and it's going to be here before we know it. It's the very first. Now, we had this deal set up once before, and then we had this thing called a pandemic that hit, and so the cruise was no more.

And now the Ramsey cruise, we call it the live like no one else cruise. Is that what it's called? pandemic that hit. And so the cruise was no more. And now the Ramsey cruise, we call it the live like no one else cruise. Is that what it's called? That's right. That's the official title. Do you know why it's called that? Because if you live like no one else later, you can live like no one else. So you can go buy a ticket and go on a cruise with us, with Dave Ramsey, George Camel, John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, Rachel Cruz, and myself and other guests. And you can just do that by simply putting a deposit down, George, of $600. You know why? Because you've got $600. You've got the margin.

So this is for folks who have done the first part. They've lived like no one else. They've made the sacrifice. They paid off the debt, got the emergency fund. They're investing for the future. And now we want to celebrate with all of those people on a debt-free celebration cruise. Are we going to be checking people's baby step status at the door? That could be fun. I would love to volunteer to be that guy.

You, give you a clipboard, you would be so happy. How do I verify? Are we pulling credit reports? You can't. It was a joke. It's a ludicrous suggestion. But nonetheless, you got excited about it. But what if we freak people out as they try to get on board? And I go, no, no, no. Let's check that credit report. What if we had Dave shoot a video?

And it was kind of like an AI video of Dave. And you had to walk up and he would look you in the eye and you go, now before you get on this boat, I'm going to need to see your ticket. And I need you to look me in the eye and tell me you're in Baby Step 4 or higher. Are you? Could you see him? Yeah. That would be kind of fun to freak people out i gotta i gotta see your dfe your debt-free verification oh see look at you've already run with this all right george tell them where we're going because the uh the lineup is absolutely unbelievable we're going to turks and caco saint thomas puerto rico and the bahamas yep that's an amazing lineup it's a great

great great lineup. We also have some good friends going with us, big-time chef Manit Chauhan, Deanna Carter of country music fame, and Stephen Curtis Chapman of Christian music fame. So we've got a little something for everybody there. And all the personalities, including Dave, will be speaking, hanging out with you.

And George is going to swim with the Dolphins. We're looking at an excursion where you swim with George and the Dolphins. It's a synchronized experience. Yeah, so we're working on that. By the way, George swims in a swim shirt, so that's always worth seeing. And floaties. That's an extra bonus. With the floaties.

With the floaties. So here's the deal. You get your room by just putting $600 down is all you've got to do, the deposit. And cabins are running low. We are going to sell out. They're expecting us to sell out within the next month or so. So you don't want to miss that. And you can sign up right now.

Book your cabin at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise, ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. By the way, George, I want to point out we have a lovely studio audience out there in the lobby today. International. International. We have Scotland, Australia, and more. Yeah, it's unbelievable. So always fun to meet you fine folks, and we'd love for you to come see us. To the phones we go, 888-825-5225. Tampa, Florida is where Matt waits for us. Matt, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Hey, I'm separating from the Air Force next month or in a couple months, and I have a few job offers lined up for airlines. I'm a pilot in the Air Force and switching to the civilian sector, and we're looking at probably a 40% drop in pay if I can start right away when I leave. We did buy a house about two years ago here in Tampa, and we bought just before the mortgage rates, or we locked in just before the mortgage rates started going up. Ended up with a higher rate than we bargained for, and it's going to be a little tight trying to keep the house. So my question is with, and especially with training start dates for a lot of these airlines as a few job offers, but they've all paused training for the remainder of the year. And they could potentially pause it further in the next year. So my question is, is it a dumb idea to sell our house and move in with our family,

which we kind of take a hit on equity, and we might be slightly upside down in it, you know, by an order of up to, I mean, we could break even. We could end up losing, like, having to pay out like 30 grand or something like that to get out of it. All right, there's a lot coming at us. So, George, let's break a couple things down here that'll help us. First thing is explain the training delay and in context with, do you want to fly commercial airlines? That is your, that's where you want to be long-term. Is that the case?

That's right. All right, and so if they're delaying training, that means they're delaying hiring. Well, sort of. I've got three job offers. They just say, we're not going to start you until January at the earliest. Start you in training, which means essentially start you in paying you. When are you leaving the Air Force? Basically, I want to stop moving so much.

But are you optional to leave, or is this like, hey, on this date, it's over? Or can you hang on to the Air Force position? I could, but it's really important to me to be able to get with an airline, a major airline, at the earliest possible point. But if this is the difference between you guys losing your house, I'm going to go, well, let's pause on this career move until we know what it's going to look like and that we can afford it. Yeah. I mean, let's skip ahead then. So we're jumping around, but I think it's important to jump around, George. We don't like the idea, George, why we don't want him to try to sell a house and take a

loss on this. It's like there's a whole lot of options before we get to that, correct? Yeah. Well, and the question is, how do we get you from the Air Force position to another position without a gap in income and without a loss of income? So what are you making now and what are the job offers offering? So what I'm making now is about taking a pay of $11,000 to $12,000 per month. And the first year of pay with any airline is a little bit lower. So I'd be looking at about $6,000

to $7,000 per month. Even with your experience? That's right. The first year pay is always a little bit lower. Does your wife work? But it bumps right back up. My wife works. She's a nurse. She makes about $4,500 a month. So it would still be a $40,000, excuse me, a 40% hit in your first year. How quickly does it jump up in year two? And does it get back up to where you currently are, or is it still below that level? It would go back up to where I currently am. So for one year, you basically got to float the 40% difference in one year.

But you don't have – I mean, being an airline pilot, you don't have a lot of time for the side gig, do you? Or something else that you could do to make up that money for one year and not lose the house? That's true. And the other big concern is, what if they don't start training for longer? Why is this the only option? Could you not do cargo plane? Could you not fly private? Why is commercial day one the only option? So I could do other things in the meantime to keep an income. I think you have to, Matt. Matt, you have to. You're basically telling us that we're looking at six months from today at the earliest that you would actually start to get a paycheck, and you're looking at leaving the military when? At the end of September. And now I would get about $15,000 of extra pay

upon leaving. But that's a month and a half. That's a month and a half. What's your mortgage payment? Mortgage payment is about $3,600. Okay. So based on our parameter, about a quarter of take-home pay, you would need to bring in about $14,000 to make this house sustainable. Right. And right now, if you and your wife, let's say you took the pay cut, it was $7,000, your wife makes $5,000, you're at $12,000. So you've got a little bit of a gap. I have other job offers that if they did start me, one of them is scheduled to start me, they could bridge the gap in between now and then. You just answered your question.

I think, George, we like that. We're wrapping up. We're about shy on time here, George. I think we prefer he take that option, not sell the house. You can't take a job that brings home less than $10,000 a month. So if you make that the one thing you're focused on, you'll focus on it. You're saying not sell the house. Try to avoid selling the house.

Avoid selling the house. Because they're underneath it. Delay your dream of leaving Air Force until we figure out what's next. Yeah, yeah. Because they could turn this house into something that's an asset. Yeah, moving in with a family all because of an urgency to get out of this job. I don't see it. Yeah.

I don't see the need. I'm with you. All right. Thank you for your service, Matt. Absolutely. We appreciate you. You're a great American. Don't move.

More of the Ramsey Show coming right up. How you doing out there, America? You doing alright? You doing okay? You making enough money? You keeping enough money? How's the old relationships around money? Oh, boy. It's awkward.

Some of y'all still are trying to Venmo each other and their spouses. That's a scary scenario, Ken. How's that American dream idea to work really well, to work really hard, and keep moving up? Maybe start your own business. How's that going, folks? How's it going? We're in

an election year, George. People are starting to lose hope out there, Ken. Or they're hanging on to hope for the wrong reasons. That's right. Yeah. And so we want your hope focused on your actions and what you can control. And that's what we do here. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225 is the number. Devin, is it Devin or Devon? We'll find out shortly. I'm going to guess Devin. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. How can we help? Hi, guys.

Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. It is Devin. You are correct. Okay, good. All right. So my question is, my husband and I, we have three children. They are 20, 18, and 16.

And our rule has always been that if after high school you don't have to go on to college, that's fine if that's what you select, but you have to get a certification or a license or work full-time, that kind of a deal. We have our 18-year-old daughter. She just graduated from high school in May. We'll not be going on to a university. Again, totally fine. My husband is a public school teacher teacher and his insurance has recently changed. As a result, if my daughter were to get a full time job that offers her insurance, she has to take it.

She has special needs. She has a very rare condition that causes her to break bones very easily. She's had over 80 broken bones in her 18 years of life. Yeah. So so she is somebody who very much needs her insurance. Her plan has been that, uh, in August she would work full time at a retail makeup store, like an Alto or Sephora. Um, cause that's where her passion lies. And then after a year, go and get like an esthetician license or something like that. My question is, because of the change in insurance, does it make sense to not have her work full-time, rather just have her do a part-time for the next year

and then kind of see where we are, or do we kind of stick to our guns and say, hey, this is the deal. You're an adult. This is what you chose, and then deal with the ramifications of retail insurance. Yeah, I don't. My first pass is I don't know that I would change the expectations for her.

Now, I'm assuming that if she's careful in this role as a makeup artist or whatever you call it these days, an esthetician, I mean, that she can do that with low risk. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, there's no rhyme or reason as to when she fractures. I mean, she's, again, broken so many bones. I mean, she can sneeze wrong and she can break a rib. So it's not so much that it's a dangerous situation.

It's just what it is. It is what it is. And we've never coddled her. I know that sounds awful, but like, hey like hey you're broken you have to go to school so she was the kid in the wheelchair and that kind of a thing so again we're kind of what we're trying to keep doing like now that she's an adult but with this change in insurance i mean it's not if she's going to need it it's when right um but i like the idea of her working full-time and having her own insurance it's time but the stipulation was if she's working full-time, which I assume is 40 hours a week-ish,

then she has to get her own insurance regardless if the employer offers insurance? Well, no. If the company she works for offers it, she has to take it. She can no longer stay on our insurance. It's just the new insurance. See, Devin, here's where I'm at. I don't know what George thinks. I would not make a decision to limit her earning ability, to limit her dignity building, simply to save her a little bit of money on insurance.

I mean, because in other words, it's like, well, she could stay on my husband's insurance, but she has to only work part-time, which means the way I look at that is I'd say it this way. Let me put it to you this way. Here's what I hear. Devin, I'm going to recommend to you. Imagine me saying this to you, Devin. You tell me what you think. Devin, I think your daughter should make less money and be limited and almost on a fixed income

because I'd like her to stay on your husband's insurance. Yeah, no, no. Okay, so you get my point. Right, no. Okay, so you get my point. Right, right. I mean, she could get disability, but we have said absolutely not. You are capable of working. You're going to work. So walk us through this. Let's say she's working at Sephora full-time. She has insurance through Sephora. What are the downsides there compared to what you have right now? So if she, you know, ends up in the emergency room or she has a bunch of different specialists that she does have to go to, the co-pays are much higher. There's a much higher, you know, out-of-pocket expense. Well, let's be prepared for the out-of-pocket maximum and let's teach her how that

works and let's make sure she has that amount saved. That's a great point. And depending on the insurance, we also don't know what the insurance is going to be. Let's look into that depending on the employer. Let's find out what the co-pays are. And then it becomes a line item in her budget that she needs to manage. As a working adult, go, this is going to be a higher percentage of my budget than all of my friends, and I need to be okay with that. That's right. She's going to have to effectively have a, I think, a line item in the budget that is, I'd call it copay. And I just think teaching her how to be self-sufficient here, you guys are going to sleep better at night knowing that she's figured it out. And it's literally a function of saving and allocating that in the budget to go. It's kind

of like a mini emergency fund, but it should be actually in her budget. And she going to continue to live at home? What's the plan there? Yeah, no, she'll probably, yeah, she'll be, she has to live at home for probably the next few years. Okay. Yeah. But see, I like that. But see, I like that because now she can stack more money away in that actual line item of copay or medical.

Okay. Like she has a medical line item and it's like a mini emergency fund, George. How does that feel to you? Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel real good about this. And so show her, hey, we're going to get a high yield savings account set up for you. This is what an emergency constitutes. We're going to make sure we have the out of pocket max. Here's what your co-pays might look like year one. We're going to have that in the budget

and you're going to put that money away like a sinking fund so that when and if something happens, you're going to be okay. You have the money to cover it. And I think that's going to really give her that dignity to go, I can take care of myself. That's huge. While under the care of mom and dad and under their roof. So she has minimal bills while working full time. There's no reason why she can't put away money. Yeah. Wonderful. I appreciate it, gentlemen. You're an amazing mom, by the way. I can't imagine the difficulty of that situation. Three kids, one with that special need requirement,

and I'm wishing her the best on her journey to become an esthetician. Yeah. Devin? Appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Hey, Devin, can I put you on the spot? I think you can handle this, and if you don't like this, just say no, and it won't be awkward at all.

But I just have a feeling right now, George, and I'm going to trust this feeling. Devin, I want you to just speak to moms and dads out there. You're talking to a massive audience right now, and they've got little ones who have special needs all across the spectrum. It could be just anything. We just have no idea. And it is causing emotional stress, mental stress, and financial stress. Feels like you and your family have really navigated this well.

What would you tell those folks? They're in the midst of this, and they're feeling like maybe they're not going to be able to figure it out. Maybe they're just feeling like they're never going to get through it. What would you say to them? So our faith has been absolutely crucial in all this. We did not know she was going to have this disease when she was born. She was diagnosed at six weeks old. So, again, our faith has just really what pulled us through. Also, my husband and I

sticking together, really just kind of being on the same team, obviously getting out of debt was incredibly crucial because our medical bills were just insane. She broke her neck when she was two and had to be life flighted to Johns Hopkins. So I mean, that was a $25,000 helicopter bill. But we were able to do all of that because we were debt-free. And so, honestly, what I would just say is you just, you know, special needs parents, you know, God chose you for a reason. We don't know what it is, but your kid is awesome. And you just keep walking forward and you do it together with your family or whoever is around you. And that's how we do it.

Wow. That's beautiful. Devin, thank you. Thank you. You really encouraged some people today. $25,000 helicopter bill, George. I mean, you got a little one right now. Can you imagine? I cannot imagine. I mean, first of all, the trauma that would cause me, let alone the financial aspect. That's what I'm saying. From every aspect, here's your little one.

So what I'm hearing is for special needs parents, they can't go, well, the Ramsey plan is not for me because we have different circumstances. You have to do this plan if you've got that. You have to stay dead. I think it's vital. You have to have the emergency fund. That's what I heard from Devin, not from us. And wow, what a special family. But then fun to see that their daughter is coping and not not just coping, but winning and thriving. And thank you again, Devin. I hope that encouraged those of you out there that are in that situation. We're here with you. We're here for you.

This stuff will help you get through these dark times and come out on the other side. Wow. Great stuff, Devin. Thank you again. All right, don't move. Quick break. We'll be right back.

This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. All right, George, it's time for our question of the day, and it comes from Nick in New York.

Nick says, I wanted to ask your thoughts on getting an American Express charge card. I'm completely debt-free and see there are major benefits in terms of points and airline miles for using these cards that you pay back the next month and never carry a debt. What is the downside to using them like a debit card? This is a question we get very often, Ken, and the part that frustrates me is that you can't use a credit card like a debit card because they're so different. You're using other people's money and paying it back later versus using your money and paying it right now. And so you can't say, well, I use it just like a debit card. What's the difference? There's a huge difference. Number one, American Express, they're known for the charge card, Ken,

which means you pay the full balance every single month. Where they get you is with very high annual fees. They're known for having some of the highest annual fees. They're also known for having the highest transaction fees. So when you – have you ever seen these signs at a business? We do not accept American Express. You've seen those? Oh, sure, Because they don't want to pay the percentage. They don't want to pay. And American Express has fees upward of three and a half percent versus, you know, a two and a half with the other cards. So the businesses are saying, hey,

we're not going to take the hit on this. The consumer's paying big annual fees. And on top of that, what do you think happens psychologically when you're chasing the points and airline miles? Well, naturally you go, we'll put a little more on the card this month. We're going to get it back, quote unquote, with our cash back. So why not? And the problem is the credit card companies love this. There's a reason they're promoting these so heavily. They can devalue the points at any time. There's a reason they've moved from cash back to points because what is a hundred thousand points well it's like two grand and yet your brain goes it's like chuck E. Cheese you remember going to chuck E. Cheese that's why it works that way you got a thousand tickets and you're like oh man I'm gonna get the boom box at the top yeah and they go nope you get a pack of

sweet tarts sweet tarts and a sticky hand is what you're walking away with the sticky hand and you still think oh that's funny so Nickfully, as a guy who had the, I had the American Express Delta card back in the day, Ken, and the Discover cash back card when I was 20, in my young 20s before I knew the Ramsey plan. And I thought I was winning because I was playing these games, and yet I was not moving anywhere financially. I was, in fact, going backwards.

And once I cut up the cards, used my own money, I created my own reward system because I was way more cognizant, way more intentional with the money. And I created my own rewards. I was able to save $2,000 to buy some flights at the end of the year by getting on a budget and using my own money. So simply put, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. The long answer, you can go read the credit card chapter in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, where I talk about all of this at length. Hope that helps. Yeah, good stuff.

Thanks for the question. All right, let's go to the phones. Jonas is up in Los Angeles. Jonas, how can we help? Hi, guys. So I'm going to achieve Baby Step 1 by August 1st. After starting Baby Step 2, when should I pause to save for a basically guaranteed and necessary professional move? How much would the move cost, do you think?

It varies. I'm not taking any of my furniture wherever I go, but I'm in early career academia, so I'm thinking $3,000 is the barest minimum to potentially get me across the country and start over wherever I end up. Is it traditional in the academic world to offer, when they hire someone, to offer some type of a moving bonus? It depends on the position. If it's a tenure track position, yes. If it's like a visiting lecture position, usually no. And what are you going for? I have everything because of my field. I don't get to be too picky.

Well, why make this move then to be a visiting professor or whatever it's going to be? What's the upside for you versus staying where you're at? I can't stay where I'm at here in my position here. And it does not renew. I have to apply for academic jobs this fall, and then I have to move accordingly. And professionally, it's better for me to leave my home institution where I got my PhD, go somewhere else, and kind of get some distance, and then pop around. It's a weird job market.

Well, okay. So, George, what do you say? He thinks he's got about $3,000. We're estimating about three. Let's round it up a little bit. Let's say three to five, George. What does he do? Well, you've got a thousand already with baby step one. And so if and when that the job comes to fruition, I would say, let's pause the steps and let's quickly save up that cash. And that might mean selling stuff, might mean working extra, side hustles, whatever it takes to come up with that difference to get you across the country. But I would also tell you, I would do my best to negotiate and say, listen, I'm going to need as part of this job offer, some relocation money and negotiate that in. Even if you can get a half of it.

Exactly. And I think they should be willing to help. If you're a great candidate and you seem like a real sharp guy, they should offer something with a cross-country move. We lost him. I think he's flabbergasted by that. I think he was stunned by the level of detail you gave him there. All right, let's go to Cheyenne. Can I just tell

you something, George? I've never been to Wyoming, and I'd like to go. I hear good things, and I got a little excited when I saw Cheyenne, Wyoming on there. Dave is there. Dave, how can we help? Well, yes, sir. Our household income is around $900,000 a year. We live on $200,000 of that. We don't have any debt. I hope not. I was going to say, that was what I was expecting you to say when you're socking away $700,000 a year. That's pretty good. Well, we've been married 12 years and not had debt since our third year of marriage. Way to go. I assume your house is paid for as well. Yes, correct. I want to know how to maximize our retirement savings with the greatest tax benefit.

And at that income level, can I contribute to a mega Roth doing the backdoor? So you've got a few options and this is for high-income earners out there. You don't have to make $900,000. Even if you make $250,000, these might be options you can look into. So you do have a 401k through your employer? No, I'm self-employed. My wife has a 401k through her employer. Okay. As someone who's self-employed, are you doing any investing through that? Have you set up a solo 401k or a SEP, anything like that? No, I'm just contributing, I think it was $7,500 to my, I have a Roth account, which I've not contributed to lately. I have a traditional 401k that I rolled over, and then I have just an individual brokerage

account. Okay. And so I've just been putting $7,500 a year in that from myself. Well, you've got to be doing a backdoor Roth IRA with making that kind of money. So I need to do that. That is an option. You need to, legally. You cannot contribute to a Roth IRA with that kind of income. What you can do is use after-tax money to fund a traditional IRA, and then you can immediately convert it to a Roth with no penalty. So I'm going to set you up with a team because that's what you need. With this kind of income and this kind of money, you don't want to play games and try to just DIY it and hope for the best. So number one, go to ramseysolutions.com

and click on Trusted Pros. Number one, you need a great tax pro, and we've got those. Ramsey Trusted Tax Pros at ramseysolutions.com. They're going to help you minimize taxes with that kind of income. The second thing you need is a smart investor pro. These are the investing pros we trust to help our folks navigate the wealth journey. And it's not just choosing funds. There's a lot at stake here when it comes to tax planning, estate planning, college planning, you name it. And so they're going to help you figure out the options that are right for you that are legal for you to take. But I'll tell you just on a quick radio call, of course, filling up the tax advantage

accounts is going to be your best bet. So Roth 401ks, anytime you see Roth, that's great. That's after-tax money, grows tax-free. The next best bet is to look into a backdoor Roth IRA and a mega backdoor Roth, which is where you use a 401k and contribute after-tax money into the 401k, and then you can roll it over, similar to the backdoor Roth IRA. Beyond that, do you guys have an HSA, a health savings account? My wife doesn't. You're her employer. I do not. Okay. So with that HSA, you can also contribute there. And beyond a threshold of about a thousand bucks, you can invest. And when you're 65, that can turn into a traditional 401k, essentially. You can use that money for things outside of medical expenses. So beyond all of that, the brokerage account is your best bet where there's no tax advantages, but there's no income limits, no contribution limits. Yeah.

That's the spark notes. But again, reach out to that team, RamseySolutions.com, and they can help. Yeah, a smart investor and a tax pro would be absolutely your number one option here. Good problems to have. Oh, yeah. You're going to love it. He's going to love the plan they developed for him. So really good stuff. All right, that's going to do it for this hour.

Thank you to George Campbell. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. you