The Ramsey Show - App - I Can’t Sleep Because of My Debt (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss:   "I thought I would feel more peace in Baby Step 7", "I can't sleep because of my debt", How long to be gazelle intense,  from the blog: Gazelle Intensity: Do You Have It? "My wife wants us to upgrade in home but I don't want to borrow more money for it", "Should I pay off my future wife's Parent PLUS loans when we get married?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jeremy is in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Hi, Jeremy. How are you? Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me on. Sure. How can I help? So my question is regarding some financial anxiety that I'm going through.

I married my amazing wife in 2020, and we've been on fire. We paid off $90,000 in debt, and last summer we just paid off our house. And you're probably thinking, where's the anxiety coming from? And I guess I was expecting like an office space moment where I've got financial freedom and no cares, no worries. And what I'm finding out is when I paid off the house, the bank account went from $230,000 down to $50,000. And it just had me kind of shook. I'm not sure what steps I should be doing, and I'm afraid to even move at this point. So your anxiety is because you have less money in your account?

Correct. I'm afraid to be wrong. I know where we came from with the $90,000 in debt and I'm afraid I don't know what to do with it, like where to move. I know baby steps. $90,000 included paying off your mortgage or your mortgage on top of that? A little on top of that. $90,000 was just regular debt. Okay, and how much was the mortgage? How much? The mortgage was $185,000.

Okay, so $275,000 has been paid off since the COVID quarantine and you got married. Correct. And you didn't die. Correct. A lot of stress. What do you do for a living? I'm a federal contractor. God almighty. Kind of feels like you've been running with your hair on fire for three years,

and you finally just don't have anything to be on fire about, and it scared you. That's probably correct, yes. So here's a weird thing. I wish it wasn't the case, man. But our bodies solve for the nerd word is homeostasis. It likes the way things have always been. And that's why when somebody knocks off 50 or 60 or 70 pounds, if they haven't made an entire environment change,

changed their life, changed their identity, I am now somebody who does X, Y, or Z, their body will scratch and claw that 50, 60, 70 pounds back on because that's what it knows. And your body knows fight or flight, run, war, it's all coming down. It has never practiced peace. And so, dude, you're not crazy you're not nuts your anxiety alarms are ringing off the hook as they should be because you are in uncharted water you just don't know what to do when when you're not when the water's not dumping over the side of the boat when it's just calm and chill and it's just it's going to be a season you're going to have to practice and you have to learn how to be still not create chaos because there's none being created for you right right and it sounds like uh i know what i'm talking

about because this is the pot talking to the kettle it's good to meet you man yeah i mean you do think about i wasn't kidding around what all you did in the beginning of a pandemic and out the back end of a quarantine and a pandemic when we were all an unprecedented, oh God, I hate that word now, stress levels. And in the middle of that, you went ahead and got married. So let's add some stress. In the middle of that, you went ahead and paid off 275 000 and completely revolutionized your life which means you turned up the burners to the highest possible heat um while you were in all

of these other burners and the water was already boiling and all of a sudden it all just went off and got quiet that makes sense yeah i think I'm just looking to find out what I should be doing now. I guess I know investing. We both have Roth IRAs. She has a pension, so I'm just not sure what to do next. You don't know what to do. Just breathe. Chill.

That's it. Start investing and being outrageously generous. You're 100% debt-free. Make snow angels in your front yard. What's your household income? $150 before tax. With no payments. Right.

Take your shoes off and go walk around the backyard. That grass is yours. Now, all that crap you used to pay payments on, let's take those payments and put them in investments. Fill up your 401k, fill up your Roth, fill up your envelope that says random acts of generosity, and catch the single mom pumping gas with the kids with the frayed clothes and her tires are bald as a baby's butt. Roll the car over to the car tire place next door and put four tires on her car and fill it up and have the oil changed and pay cash for it and smile and walk away and she'll never know who did it because you're God's angel that day because you now have money. How's that sound?

Sounds great. Here's a common thing that happens is we think, and again, like getting out of debt is a core tenet of not being anxious. But we often forget that wherever we end up, we go with us. And so if you thought there was going to be some magic wand that suddenly you were going to like yourself or suddenly you were going to not have any more shame from when you were a kid or suddenly your dad was going to call you and tell you how proud he was and that call ain't coming being debt free will set you free from anybody any external chains that got you

but it may be now you can do the work that you need to do to heal right stuff you've been crap you've been carrying around for a long long time yeah that's that's possible it gets really quiet then the voices kick up exactly it's it's like uh you've experienced this i haven't i've just met with countless couples who's the last kid moves out and that house gets quiet and now we got to learn how to have a new kind of life because it's different now you know we planned so intentionally that the party just began when they left. We're like, he's gone finally. Is your mom carrying a disco ball into the house? Is he really gone? Hey, but let's just full disclosure.

You and I, I've asked you off air as my life has transitioned since I've taken this job. Like, there's a discomfort with the newness of not running from my life anymore and not feeling like the whole world's coming down. Being able to love my wife and not being panicked in the middle of the night when she's asleep. It's 6 o'clock. Go home. We don't work at 7. Yeah, go home. Here. It's 6 o'clock. Go home. We don't work at 7. Yeah, go home. Here.

You know, that's, it's an intentional act. But the thing is, it's just, I said this the other day with Megan Kelly. I was on her podcast. If you want to turn it on, guys, she's got a great podcast. I was on her podcast yesterday. Megan, it's like if you're driving down the road at 100 miles an hour, and then you slow down to 55, it seems like you're crawling. And she goes, not an experience I've ever had, Dave.

You haven't either. I've seen you drive. Yeah, I never slowed down to 55. No, she never got up to 100. She's a law-abiding citizen. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. thank you for joining us dr john baloney ramsey personality is my co-host today hey guys we have about 25 million of you out there between YouTube and podcast and radio and TBN watching and listening and so forth to this show. And 100% of you came to us because someone told you about us or you stumbled into us.

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so that you can reach and push that memory button and always find that station at this time of day and listen to us. Thank you for that. And where you have the option to leave a review a five-star review nothing else is helpful mama said if you ain't got nothing nice to say don't say nothing at all so leave a five-star review or just don't bother you're not any help so uh spread spread the love man that's that's what makes this thing happen around here and we appreciate you guys a lot hey taxes are confusing i hate them i'm perpetually grouchy

this time of year if you want to buy some tax services out there you can think you're never going to get a grasp on taxes they tell you how dumb you are we think you're smart you have two choices for claiming tax deductions and understanding the difference that can save you can save you big bucks you can either take the standard deduction or itemize your deductions and understanding the difference that can save you big bucks. You can either take the standard deduction or itemize your deductions. Both options lower your tax bill, but which one's best? And that depends on your tax situation. So let's take a closer look. The standard deduction is an easy no-brainer. It subtracts the set amount from your taxable income based on your filing status. Let's say you're single, you make $65,000, the standard deduction knocks off about $13,000, so you pay taxes only on $52,000. It's like an automatic

write-off. Itemizing deductions in that case would only work if you had deductions greater than $13,000, which means you gave to your church or you had something else that was a tax deduction that added up to more than $13,000. So for more help in making sense of all your income taxes and filing with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax. That's ramseysolutions.com slash tax. Jeff is in Canada. Hi, Jeff.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Jeff. Sorry. Hi. Yeah. Hi. Hi. Yeah. Hi. Hi. How can we help?

What's up, man? So I'm in a pretty bad buying. I screwed up. And now I'm about, give or take, $37,000 in debt. Living pay to paycheck. And a good part of my debt is actually my old business, and more specifically, my old employees. I haven't been sleeping well for a while now, and I just want to get out of this i want to honor them

although i haven't done it for the last few years but i just want to fix everything and uh yeah wow you've been hit with a lot so you've got the um i mean i closed a business and went broke so i know how that feels that you feel ashamed on top of that mean, I closed a business and went broke, so I know how that feels. You feel ashamed. On top of that, I didn't pay my bills and went bankrupt, so I felt double ashamed. And on top of that, you've got employees that you love that you owe money to, so you've got another dose of shame.

So you've got a lot hanging on your shoulders, don't you? Yeah. Been there, done that. I decided to fight to not go bankrupt by purpose because i knew well you're gonna pay them anyway because they're your friends pardon and um i'm it's just getting worse and worse. What do you make? What do you make now? Right now, I work remote for $2,400 a month. Well, that sucks. Take home.

So that's the deductions. Yeah, that sucks. You're starving today. I had a second job earlier this winter, but I was laid off. And I can't get a second job. I've been hunting for one day. I don't have a car anymore because part of my debt is also blocking my license from me being able to travel. So I can travel, but I need a car because I live in a rural area.

So part of the settlement against your debt is that you can't go get work somewhere else? That doesn't make any sense. It's like an old debtor's prison back from the dark ages. In our province, if you owe anything for traffic tickets and some of those traffic tickets were from our old bus and my old drivers and we had fines and owner of the company gets a fine as well as the drivers even if it's speeding the owner of the company gets a fine as well. All right. So listen.

Okay. So you're talking to two guys who in various stages have been right where you are. Okay. And so the question I'm going to ask you on behalf of both of us is, first I'm going to say, it feels like everything is in a dark cloud. Absolutely. You're not crazy. The question I'm going to ask you is this. Do you want to do what it takes to begin scratching and clawing

and sprinting your way out of this thing? I'm trying to. That's why I went for a second job earlier. No, I got you. I got you. But part of saying, yes, I want to scratch and claw is saying, okay, trying to that's why i went for a second job earlier no that's i got you i got you but but part of saying yes i want to scratch and claw is saying okay the way i was doing it wasn't working i want to try something else would you be willing to do that yeah okay you've got two issues here

one is and you have in your mind they've all turned into one big toxic stew. One of the issues is you got to get these debts paid off. The second is, so it's a math problem. You got a finance issue. And the second thing is you've got so much shame, so much relationship dysfunction. Now you're working from home, so you just sit by yourself all day long. It's stew, it's stew, it's stew, it's stew, it's stew. And you face rejection and you got laid off.

All this stuff. You got this interpersonal stuff going on, this relationship stuff, right? So these are two separate challenges here. So we got a plan for you to help you with the money, but you're going to have to take some, what I would consider some pretty radical steps on the human side of this. Would you be willing to do that? Yeah, and I forgot to say earlier that I've been looking at getting a loan to try and tackle one of the two and just get rid of one of the two problems, main problems. So I was also calling about that. Jeff, Jeff. And fight for it. No, you have an income problem. We have to solve your income problem.

You can't borrow your way out of debt. And the bad news is you have $37,000 worth of debt. The great news is it's not $370,000. It's only $37,000. $3,000 a month for a year, and you're free. You're completely free, but you don't make any money, and you've got a thousand reasons why you have to stay in this poop that you're sitting in, and I'm going to tell you, you probably need to move to another city and get six jobs in the city.

And you can't sit in a rural community where there's no jobs and make $2,400 in a dark room and get out of this. Besides that, you need the human interaction. You need the sunlight. Yeah. Yeah. And you need a new look, a new, a new, a fresh start. And I don't know if you move back to this community someday later, but I want you to go a hundred miles away and move into a major city. And I want you to work seven jobs, 80 hours a week.

And I want you to be a hundred percent debt free by this time next year with $15,000 in the bank. Then you've got some choices, but you've got to do something radical to get your income up. Your income is horrible. Horrible. I'm not picking on you. I'm just telling you, math, you don't get a pass on that. You've got to push your way through this.

And it's going to require what John asked you. Are you willing to do what it takes? I just told you what it takes. It's what you need to do. This is The Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225 mark is in joplin missouri hey mark welcome to the show

dave what are y'all up to just struggling through man how can we help i i understand hey man my wife here we're kind of twixt and tween a lot of stuff and we need to ask a question okay we're twixt and tween step five and six and our gazelle he's kind of sitting in the thicket there catching his breath a little bit and we was wondering which way to point him and how hard to kick well you got dialed in man i like it, what we tell folks is you do gazelle intensity, which is scorched earth, no life, 100% game on in baby steps one through three. And I'll tell you what, we have crossed the prairie. You did that. Yeah, you got through.

And now you've got your emergency fund in place and you're debt-free and you're doing baby steps four, five, and six simultaneously. And we tell folks when you do that, we do sideline the gazelle. We move from intense to intentional. Right. From a sprint to a marathon. We're still running. Yeah, our girls are fixing to get out of school in May, and we'll have them through school, so they'll be done with that.

Got them off the payroll. Yeah, they'll be done off the payroll and gone. Good. And basically, we got about $170,000 left on our farm, and then we'll be done done. Yeah, and so intentional looks intentional looks like this yes if you need to upgrade your couch that's going to slow down the paying down on the farm by the amount of the couch yes we're going to go on vacation mama needs one and uh that's

going to slow down the paying down on the farm but we're not going to consume so many things that we don't do anything towards getting rid of that farm debt. But we're also not doing beans and rice, rice and beans, gazelle intensity at this stage, and having no life. This is the stage where we have a life, but we're careful about it and intentional so that we still accomplish those other goals as well. So you move from intense to intentional. That sounds better than what we've been doing but hey here's the thing mark you you're gonna have to practice it because you're not gonna be any good at it we start we ain't really used we ain't really used to it

no because that means here's what it means in the past for the past few years you don't have a conversation about the couch and just know we're paying off debt now you and your wife can have to have a conversation about a couch and that's a skill set that most married couples don't have and so we're going to practice it we're going to practice where do you want to go for vacation how big is it going to be and how small is it going to be you're going to spend on that the less we can put on the farm that's right and there's and expect some tension there if you don't have tension something's weird you're gonna have tension there and that's part of the deal you don't have tension, something's weird. You're going to have tension there, and that's part of the deal. You will always have tension because you always have a limited amount of money. No one has unlimited money.

An unlimited amount of, I wish we could. Yeah, there's always a list, and it's always longer than the money. And so it doesn't matter. And it's like the list does get more fun. Of course. Because the stuff on it is much cooler when you've got some money. But it's still a list, and there's still some things we're going to do right now and some things we're not going to do right now. And you've got to make those forced ranked decisions as a couple.

I wonder, Dave, if it's just sometimes easier. I've never thought this. I'm saying it out loud, so catch me if I'm wrong here. But in some ways, it's easier just to take off running just to scorched earth it does because it's simple it's singular focused and so you don't burn hardly any mental calories the answer is no to everything the answer is no to everything except paying off debt right and so it's you don't have to stop and think about it yeah there's no no no it's hard to decide what goes in retirement what goes on vacation but then when you back up and you go okay i'm now and now i'm can yes we can do that

but do we want to now that burns some calories that's right that takes up some mental anguish i never put that together before yeah jw is with us jw is uh in atlanta hi jw how are you hey dave just fine how about y'all better than we deserve how can we help J.W. is in Atlanta. Hi, J.W. How are you? Hey, Dave. Just fine. How about y'all? Better than we deserve. How can we help? So me and my wife are having an issue right now.

We got you, J.W. We got you. I'm about $20,000 from having the house paid off. Excellent. But now she wants me to sell the house and buy a more expensive house. And I can taste it. I'm almost there. I'm so close.

And I don't know if, you know, I talked to her and was like, why is it that we need a more expensive house? And because that's what everybody else does. And I'm like, well, I don't want to take out another loan. I was so close to having it paid off. And, you know, she said, well, that's what everybody else does. We're just, you know, you just suck it up. That's what everybody else does. And i don't want to be like everybody else and i can't understand i can't figure out how to convince her to let's just pay this one off so you've drug you've drug her kicking and screaming into debt free yeah yeah and she's going to try to drag you kicking and screaming into 3500 more square feet oh my god And she's going to try to drag you kicking and screaming into 3,500 more square feet. Oh my God. All right.

Here's what I guarantee you haven't done yet, JW. You ready? Yep. I guarantee you haven't sat down with her and said, honey, I'm exhausted and I'm scared. I'm scared that when I owe money, when we owe a mortgage, if something happens to me, that I'm not going to be able to take care of you and the kids. Yeah, absolutely.

But hold on. But most of us knuckleheaded guys try to attack this, your wife's question with a math answer. I want you to approach this with a hard answer for probably the first time with your heart. Okay? I'm scared. I'm exhausted. I need some time.

I'm not interested in being like everybody else. I'm interested in you and me building something magical that's ours. And maybe that's a bigger house someday. I can't borrow more money right now. Yeah, I can't.

But you gotta connect with her there, man. Because otherwise it's gonna be a tug-of-war game. She feels like you won the first match and she's gonna win the second match. We've gotta change the position from daddy-daughter to husband-wife. Daddy, I want a bigger house, Daddy. Give me a bigger house, Daddy.

Everybody else gets one, Daddy. Instead, it's like you and me are a team. How can we have the life that we want to build, not other people want to build, but the life that we want to build, not other people want to build, but the life that we want to build that includes an amazing future and us making our decisions together? You get a vote and I get a vote, not I'm denying you what you want because I'm a mean old husband. That's a daddy-daughter thing.

You're not her daddy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and so you know that that and that happens in every marriage some more than others some function all the time that way some function uh for 20 seconds that way occasionally or it flips and yeah or it flips mommy little boy's got a mommy little boy's got a mommy taking care of him she does all the bills and he just works he doesn't have to think about anything he just brings taking care of him she does all the bills and he just works he doesn't have to think about anything he just brings in the money and i do all the adult stuff and oh god creepy and so um yeah that happens all the time though and so uh you don't have much of that here

but what john's telling you is come alongside her and then just pour your heart out and say this has been a goal of my life for the first time in my life i'm free i can breathe and you're asking me to let a 300 pound man stand on my chest again i just i can't do it i can't do it and i do want to give you what you want i want us to have things that we like together but i also but i want to do it like grown-ups and so let's start talking about getting a bigger house and how we can get the money together to do that with cash and might take three years instead of three months but the chances of me going into debt again are precisely zero i'm not doing it. And, I mean, Sharon's pretty acquainted with that conversation. I don't borrow money for anyone,

for any reason, ever again. I'm through. I had my run with that. This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Dr. John Deloney is my co-host today, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of the book Own Your Past, Change Your Future. He's been in the writing cave, writing a new one. We'll be telling you about that soon. It'll be coming out this summer, so save your quarters and nickels.

You're going to want to buy it. It's going to be that simple. Timothy is next. He's in Chicago. Hi, Timothy. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Well, hello there. Hey, how can we help?

Great. So I'm going to get married in Show. Well, hello there. Hey, how can we help? Great. So I'm going to get married in July, which is very exciting, very awesome. Good. I'm going to be married into $50,000 of student loans. That's awesome. Okay, we discussed it. And that's behind us. We're going to make different choices going forward.

So the question here is, it's a relationship question built into a money situation. So I have $100,000 in mutual funds and just regular brokerage accounts. So clearly I could just cash them out and wipe off the debt. My concern is that the loans are on my future mother-in-law's name. They're her loans, they're a parent plus loan. And so I don't want to be the rich boyfriend that comes in, pays off all the debt, and then just has that status of, you know, rich boyfriend that has gotten on a title or something like that.

You don't want the status of, you don't want to look like a snob? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I want to basically, I didn't know they've had trouble with finances before, and it's tight and hard for them, so I don't want to. I want to guess I proved that I can work hard and be smart, and it wasn't just all given to me by my parents or grandparents, which some of this money has been.

So it wasn't all money that I've earned. Okay. How much of her student loan debt is her parents' debt that's Parent PLUS? So all four years are Parent PLUS loans. It's been agreed that me and her will pay off the last two, which is $50,000 in Parent PLUS. The first two are like $45,000. You were not in on the deal.

It was agreed originally when they did this that she would pay that your fiancé would, when she got out of college, would pay the first two and mom and dad would pay the second two? Yeah, the reverse of that. She'd pay the second two, they'd pay the first two. It was agreed when they were finishing high school.

Okay, so that's the deal she made with her mom and dad. Yep. Okay, because she's not legally obligated, but she has a handshake with them that she's going to do this. Yes, that's exactly right. And you're talking about paying off the portion that she gave them a handshake and agreed to pay? Right.

Only? Yep, not the first half. Okay, the other's on mom and dad, and it's still on mom and dad after this story's over, right? Yep. Okay, yeah, that's a no-brainer. After the honeymoon, write a check and pay them off. Don't pay the mom and dad, pay the loans off.

Right, right. And as far as whether you're a snob or not, here's how you don't be a snob. Don't be a snob. Just don't even bring it up i mean can you emotionally let this go and not roll your eyes at them when they're doing something else stupid because you paid this off uh i think that i could it would be yeah it's my dad so i'd be fine yeah on my end it'd be okay i could handle it if you yeah i i'm confused as to you must have gotten some smoke somewhere along the way did you pick up a dinner tab one time or something

and there was kind of some awkwardness around the table so we were planning on being missionaries and fundraising our salary when i asked if i could uh propose and the father-in-law was not super thrilled about that. And so in the end, I told him that I had this account. I was like, look, if I'm missionaries for two years, there's no way we're going to be totally screwed because worst-case scenario, this could float us, which is what we were planning on signing a two-year contract.

That's how I feel. We're not going to be missionaries. We're going to have regular jobs. So I think that's kind of... So here's what I would recommend. I would recommend this as early as possible in your marriage. And this is harder for some people than it is for others. But at the end of the day, you and your wife have to build a marriage together.

And you can't be responsible for the regulation of the adult emotions in your life around you. So what you have is a debt. You're going to pay that debt off because you're a person of character, of integrity. You worked your butt off to set yourself up in this situation and you got some gifts to set yourself up in the situation. Great. If he wants to turn and get offended by it

or feel less superior or whatever he wants to feel, that is his. And the earlier you can learn to not try to control that the more peaceful your marriage is going to be moving forward that makes sense and expect it expect it if you know it's coming back then it's coming back cool and it's just you're gonna be ready emotionally when that happens and you just smile and nod and wander off to the other room and pour a cup of coffee yeah because you know it's coming you know you know it's going to come and then then you're not the snot the beautiful thing about this conversation timothy is

you're self-aware enough and you kind of felt that rise up in you in that other conversation that you kind of went oh that could happen could happen again. So John's right. You smelled smoke before. And so you're self-aware enough to go, I really need to steal myself. I need to put some backbone in myself on this issue because this is probably coming at me. And that's really the question you were answering. That's right. Asking. And John's answering.

And so, yeah. Because we know the right thing to do is to pay the debt off. Yeah. You need to pay the debt off because whether it's a legal debt, a moral debt, an ethical debt, which is only the last two, it becomes your debt when you get married and you're going to write a check when you get home from the honeymoon. You know, if she had a car loan, you'd pay it off. If she had a student, a regular student loan, you'd pay that off, whatever it is. And thank God you're aware before going into this exactly what you're getting into, and you're willing to do that.

And she's worth it, and now we go forward. And then, by the way, when you get the flu, she'll make soup. So for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, in the old book of common prayer that you would have heard maybe in the 40s or 50s at a wedding says unto thee all my worldly goods i pledge it's a beautiful old marriage vow seldom used now in an i'm independent culture but i'm married! But I'm independent! But I'm married! There's your problem. It's not real. There's your sign.

Yeah, Timothy, you're doing good. I'm really proud of you. I think you're very self-aware. You're observing this, and you're going, I could do this wrong, and how do I not do it wrong? The fact that you're asking the question is probably a sign you're not going to do it wrong. If you just didn't even know it was there, and you were obliv the question is probably a sign you're not going to do it wrong uh if you just didn't even know it was there and you were oblivious that's probably

when you're going to step in it and put yourself in his shoes not to excuse the behavior but to give yourself a little gap between the stimulus and response he's got a guy coming in and writing a check for his daughter that he couldn't write that's got to hurt a little bit it's got to hurt a little bit and i can imagine that stinging a little bit. It's got to hurt a little bit. And I can imagine that stinging a little bit. And so be it. I get it. It's silly.

It's inappropriate, but I get it. Well, it's kind of interesting, too, that he was questioning their financial plan when he's broke. It's incredible. But that's where the biggest jeers come from, the cheap seats, right? That's where the complainers come. They throw the peanuts only from the cheap seats. Exactly.

This is how it works, man. I'm telling you. So, yeah, it's a sweet spirit you've got on this, Timothy. I think you're going to be just fine. I think you're doing a good thing. And thank God it's not $500,000. Or, more likely, the way I usually hear this call is, I don't have that money oh yeah and

father-in-law is asking for the check right now yeah it's not money well good luck with that i don't have it i didn't do this dude you did so now i can write that check yeah yeah that's that and so it becomes this push thing this push and pull and uh this is why let me tell you, student loans are evil. Parent plus loans are straight from the pit of hell. Because the parent is borrowing the money for the kid to go to school, and then there's all these side deals or these unsaid, unmet expectations. Or there's a deal, and then suddenly you get a nice job out of college, and then surely you're going to pick this back up. Yeah, I mean, look yeah i mean look at him he makes all this money how to pick it up i told him i pay it but i mean look at that gym and it's just these things have not only the problems and the

weight of a student loan but they have the ability to drive wedges in families as well right and in relationships it's straight up from the pit of hell. This student loan thing is, man, it, hey, Congress, stop making them. You're screwing up a whole generation or two. Stop it. There's nothing good coming out of this. They only got a degree in left-handed puppetry. Stop it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.