The Ramsey Show - App - I Co-Signed on a House w/ My Ex & She Owes the IRS $100k! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss:   "Should I buy a house and rent it out to my parents so they can move closer?" "I co-signed on a house with my ex-wife and she owes the IRS $100k", from the blog: The Truth About Debt and Relationships,  Setting up an estate for a loved one. from the blog: What Is Estate Planning and How Do I Get Started? Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods of Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for being with us, America. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today, number one best-selling author, and my daughter. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Rachel, we're going to dive in with the question of the day. You want to take it? Yes. So today's question comes from Randy in Virginia. I'm having my first baby next month and my parents want to move to my town to see the baby more often. They want to buy a house, but would have to sell theirs first to make it happen and are too lazy to go and apply for a loan. Oh man, I thought I would just buy them a house and then they could be my renters. I currently have $50,000 left on a 200,

don't laugh, $250,000 mortgage of my current home. They are in their 70s. So if they bought the home, they would pass, they would pay less taxes and claim homestead. Would it be smarter for them to buy the home themselves or is it okay for me to buy it and make them my renters? This is just easiest this is just easiest So they can sell their house and slowly move into the new one new house new city stress-free because my dad has a ton of stuff Oh, man

randy Okay, first and foremost love the uh love the heart and the Idea that you want to help your parents. But no, Randy, no. You buying a home for them to be your renters, not a good plan. And then on top of that, you don't have the money for it. I mean, you'd be taking out a second mortgage. So absolutely not. I think that you can invest in some plane tickets

for them if they want to come see the baby a few times a year uh or they can come just stay at your house but if they want to move home their home full time and live in a new city that needs to be on their dime yeah they need they're like grown-ups and stuff. And so they need to do their own deal. Besides that, dude, you never rent to someone in the second paragraph when in the first paragraph you called them lazy. So true. It's just a basic concept here as a landlord. Let me help you with that, okay?

So if your first description is lazy and the next description is renter, this is on you. So no, no, they need to handle this. This is on you. So, no, no. They need to handle this. It's sweet that they want to come be with a grandbaby. I completely get that. If I'd have known how great grandkids are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents.

I completely get this. I understand. I agree with the move. So, mom and dad put their house up for sale. When it sells, they can make the move and buy a house in your city that's how like normal people do it and stuff and that's what they need to do so um and if they get to your city with a pocket full of money from the sale of their house and can't find a home right away they can rent from someone else please keep the grandparents at an arm's length transaction don't let the grandparents

be your renters no it's just so much that can go wrong with that and the sad thing is it all will happen it'll all go wrong hey folks with debt payments and now with inflation stealing more and more of your paycheck we know a lot of you feel like you're drowning and you're scared to death and you won't have enough to take care of your family. And, oh, God, it's scary out there. I don't know what I'm going to do. Or you're at the point where you say, I'm just so sick of this. If you're ready, if you say I've had it, you are ready.

We can help you. Over 10 million people have been through Financial Peace University. It's our nine lesson course. It'll teach you how to beat debt and build wealth it's everything you wish you'd learned about money because your number one wealth building tool is your income when you get rid of your debt you now have control of the thing that'll make you wealthy and if you go through financial peace university we will show you how to get in control how to be on the same page with your spouse.

It's very hard. It's tough. It's a boot camp for money. If you want easy, you're not going to find something that works. So anything that's worth doing, you pay a price to do. There's a certain amount of pain in transformation, and that's what has to occur here. Financial Peace University, ramseysolutions.com slash FPU.

Check it out, ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. Rachel, we can take that family discussion even a step further, and we would do that in Financial Peace University, and that is don't loan anyone money particularly family or friends don't co-sign for people you know don't you know every time you do these transactions outside of your particular household you set yourself up um the grandmother that called here and had co-signed for her grandson's pickup truck it's getting repoed you know and uh because he had to have a pickup and his dad wouldn't sign it so the grandmother did yeah and i think that you know with this

conversation there's the risk of it going bad which in a lot of cases it does which causes even more conflict but even you know i talk to people well, you know, my uncle co-signed my car and I paid it off every month and it's great and I paid it off and it's fine. But even within that, even if mathematically it works, relationally, it changes. It's weird. It changes the relationship. So from a financial level, a relational level, all the way down, it's just not wise. It just changes so much.

And it's strange. It just, I mean, we had, I guess it was a call. Was it a caller or someone I was talking to? And they had loaned a friend $10,000 because they needed help. And, you know, we went back in the conversation, talked about how if you have the ability just to give it without strings attached to help someone, if that's what you feel called to do,

then you do it. But the whole idea of loaning that they're going to pay back and then the kids showed up for a big dinner that they were all having with new iPads and the couple that loaned the money

was like, they have two new iPads. They owe us $10,000. And then you start nitpicking every train. I mean, you can't help it. And so,

again, all the above. You're not in too much trouble yeah it's just like if your kids have new ipads you're not in too much trouble i get that yeah so it's just it changes it changes the relationship and then if it goes bad and it goes south then it really can damage relationships so keeping them separate is it's the smart thing or it's a gift right and you want to make sure that you're not enabling if there is a gift, that it is a blessing and it's helpful. Generosity is completely different than a banking transaction. Yes, yes. And when the borrower is slave to the lender,

and when you eat dinner with your father-in-law or your mother-in-law or your son-in-law and you owe them money, Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master rather than when you eat with your in-laws. Because, oh, they're nice. It's a spiritual principle. You cannot get away from it. The law of gravity is the law of gravity.

I mean, you can have a nice master and still be a slave. I mean, that's hypothetically. But, I mean, you know what I'm saying. I mean, it doesn't have to be harsh. It doesn't have to be out of control. It doesn't have to be rage involved to change the tone, to change the air in the room. It changes everything. So you have to be careful with this stuff, folks.

Be careful with this. It's not to be mean to somebody. It's actually to be nice. No will set you free. Good word. Powerful word. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if

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care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budgets. That's chministries.org slash budgets. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter is my co-host today here on The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mark's in Kansas City. Hey, Mark, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you both.

Appreciate it. I'll get right to it. Okay. I've been what you call dumb about five years ago, five years ago, I co-signed on a mortgage from my ex-wife and yep, she was my ex-wife at the time. Fast forward a couple of years, I've learned that, uh, she owes the IRS over a hundred grand and they've since filed a lien on her property probably in the last year and a half to two years. So somehow she manages a little check to check,

and the kids are going to start falling off from child support, and I don't know how she's going to make it and what implications it has for me in this whole scenario. Wow. Yeah. You're right, dude dude you stepped in it oh man i'm sorry um okay first i have to know what possibly what story could possibly be told to you to make you co-sign for your ex-wife because by definition she's ex you're not gonna make me tell you this i just the three the three kids and the the violin was playing in the background i think and maybe caught me at a weak moment sweet mark now i'd heard

you thought you were doing good you thought you were doing good for your kids and she's the mother of your children okay we'll try to cut you some slack here i appreciate it we'll still put the action in the dumb column i agree with your opening statement all right anyway now we're there what do we do um no sense in throwing all the everybody under the bus let's just keep rolling what do do we do? What do we do? What do we do? Okay, she cannot refinance and get you off because she has an IRS lien. Unless you can get the IRS to subordinate, and with it being such a large lien, there's a possibility they would subordinate.

She would have to qualify for the mortgage on her own, and the IRS would have to agree to subordinate, meaning they agree to stay in second position and put a new mortgage in front of them instead of the old one. I've gotten them to do that in negotiations. It's rather lengthy, but she's got to qualify, and that doesn't sound like she can. Not a chance. Now, selling the house is very, very difficult.

However, the first mortgage is how much? $460,000. What's the house worth? I think at best $850,000. When do the kids age out of child support? Over the next three years. How much money do you have? 1.6. Half of that's in retirement. Okay. When I do something stupid and it costs me money, I call it stupid tax. Oh, boy, i've heard this before

so i think you're getting ready to write a stupid tax check at some point in this equation now sooner rather than later later rather than sooner depending on when the kids age out and all that kind of stuff but let's pretend they aged out and there's no more need for you to have violins in the background uh in terms of her having this house i would walk over and say i will give you ten thousand dollars if you'll sell your house and then she sells the house she has enough equity to pay off the irs and she gets she gets rid of the mortgage that has you on it and then she goes and gets her another house with the equity. She gets rid of me, too.

That's great. She gets rid of you. You get rid of her. This was the original intent of the whole thing until you stepped in it. Yeah. And you wouldn't push her to sell the house now because of the kids. Well, I mean, she could, but I think it's going to be a harder sale, and plus you did this partly to give your kids a better place to live, and they're not aged out yet, right? That's correct.

So, I mean, if you do it today, you're putting the kids in the street, too. Correct. But she could make the move today. I don't know what mindset she's in, but I'll tell you what she's probably got. She's got an IRS breathing down her neck. She's got a house that she's wondering how she's going to be able to afford when child support drops off she's worried about this stuff deep down not on top of not on top like you are but even she feels it in the tenseness across her shoulder

blades because she's human we all can see the truck coming towards our car right yes and so she sees that and she does not know how to get out have y'all had any conversations about it mark you and her very little we haven't been the greatest communicators it probably surprises you but no but not very much okay well part of that is she's she's buried under stress and it's got it's got part of your name on it yeah so you know i would just sit down if you can have a conversation if it's possible and just say hey here's an idea and i'll help you one last time if you sell the house you get rid of me and the irs and you've got enough equity to go get you another house you can either do that now or you can do it later and i'll write a check to help you do this because it gets me off

the mortgage because it's worth 10 grand or 20 grand if you got 1.6 to get rid of this contingent liability this cosine liability because if this thing goes belly up she's going to get foreclosed on and you're going to get to ride with her because you can't stop the foreclosure because you can't you can't force the sale of the house. The only good news in this whole story is the house has enough equity to take out the IRS. It needs to be sold for her sake. Got it. And it blesses you in the process.

That's right. So let's dangle some kind of a carrot that causes that to happen now or when the kids age out. I don't care which, but the sooner the better because i gotta feel and this is it'll be a relief to her if she understands whether she is conscious of it or not she's carrying a load of stress oh yeah dr john deloney talks about that when we're in debt the this lack of agency this lack of autonomy because we're a slave that that she's carrying the weight of that when she's i mean he said and she's living paycheck to paycheck anyways yeah well and then you have a lien on the house from the ira i mean the last thing you want on your life on your list

of things to do is to deal with the kgb i mean the irs it's just they are not this is not a creditor you want to have okay no the penalties interest, it's just out of control. Their power is virtually unlimited. In this case, I've seen a few times, not often, that they'll actually come in and force the sale of the house to get their money. To get the money. And if she doesn't do something with this lien, eventually they'll get around to that. Now, they're not exactly efficient, but eventually they'll get around to it. But the stress of this is just on everybody.

So here's an interesting thing. Now, you know, we poked at Mark a little bit. We also gave him a little bit of a break. And we kind of laughed with him and at him both in his presence. So it's all okay, right? Because we've all done stupid stuff. But the thing is this. There's a couple of things here that you can take away as a money principle.

Sometimes doing what it feels like is you're trying to help someone, but you're doing it in such an illegitimate way, you end up actually hurting the person you're trying to help. Cosigning does that every time. There's actually a proverb in the Bible that says only a fool cosigns for another. The contemporary English version says if you cosign for someone else, you're stupid. It's in the Bible, okay? So, I mean, and so cosigning is an illegitimate way to help someone,

meaning if you don't have the money for Junior to get a car and you cosign for Junior to get a car, you are stepping in it. For sure. When it's your ex-wife, you're stepping in it up to your knees. You need boots for this walk. Unbelievable, man. You know, for sure and sometimes when you give someone some money even without a debt or without a co-signing involved uh what and and it's enabling to buy something they can't afford the behavior right right then you've the you know my well my my daughter needed a house and

i gave her the down payment and now she's got a house payment that she can't afford. How many times has that happened? Like every week on this show? A well-meaning parent. So you've got to be careful what you're participating in. Because enablers are the nicest people in the world. They're sweet people that don't know how to say no. And then they enable bad behavior. And so while you were trying to be a help help you end up being a curse in their life

with money you had dollar signs on it too curse with dollar signs yeah and mark that's not aimed at you that's just aimed at all the things all of us have done like what you did this is the ramsey shower We'll be right back. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Tim is with us. Hey, Tim, how are you? Hi, Dave. This is awesome. Thank you so much. Well, it, how are you? Hi, Dave. This is awesome.

Thank you so much. Well, it's an honor to have you, sir. Where do you live? I live in Cameron Park, California, about 30 minutes east of Sacramento. Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off, sir? $180,500.

Way to go. And how long did this take you? Seven years, three months. Very good. And your range of income during that seven years? My take-home pay was $48,000 to $68,000. Cool. What do you do for a living?

I work at a hazardous waste facility. Basically, we take household paints, cleaners, paints, that kind of stuff. That's kind of what I do. I do it for a local government agency down there. Yeah, cool. Okay, good. What kind of stuff. That's kind of what I do. I do it for a local government agency down there. Yeah, cool. Okay, good. What kind of debt was your $181,000? All mortgage.

You paid off your house! Looking at weird people. A paid for house, zero debt in the entire world. Totally free. Way to go, man. Seven years you did that. Yeah. Man.

And in California. Yeah. Most people in California are like, this is Seven years you did that. Yeah. Man. And in California. Yeah. Most people in California are like, this is impossible. You did it. Really? What's this house worth? About three and a quarter. Ah, way to go, man.

How's that feel to not have a payment in the world? Dave, I did it in August. And, you know, it's so freeing. You know, you don't owe anybody anything. I mean, last month my washer broke. I'm like, oh, look, I'm going to go buy a new go buy a new washer well it's be fun to do why not so it's like little things you're like i can do there's freedom and not having owe anybody money just amazing yeah i love the t-shirt ramen ramsey approved meal every night good old ramen noodles right yeah i just thought i'd have

a little fun with it yeah well done well done okay what started you on this journey seven years ago doing this ramsey stuff well my story my story started about 15 years ago i mean i had the old um my about 15 years ago i had what was known as house fever and what happened for me is is that i wanted a house fast, fast, fast, fast. And so I didn't just do a 30 year loan. I did a 35 year loan with first five years being interest only. And that was dumb. Wow. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Wow. But, you know, and it was amazing because right then I switched to a new job

and I didn't realize that I didn't really own the house. The house owned me because my paycheck was only $2,400 a month and between my mortgage and my HOA was $1,700 and it was tough. What was the wake-up call? I took your class in 09 and I was so grateful, but back in 08 and 09, the mortgage is tanked and I just couldn't refinance. And I'm just like, what am I going to do about this? So I prayed about it and I'm like, you know what, this is what I'm going to do. I'm just going to, a lot of people in my neighborhoods were just walking away from their houses. I said, you know what, I signed up for this deal. I'm going to keep with it, but I just wish I could get it refinanced.

So when finally in 2015, I looked back at refinancing, was able to refinance to a decent loan. I said, thank you, God, I was able to get out of that. And so once I did, I said, okay, it's game on now. I said, I'm going to put everything I got on this darn thing. Excuse my language, but, and so basically at that time, my average between the last seven years has been about $4,000. I was putting about $2,500 of that on the mortgage. You wanted out.

I wanted it done. I just, no more. And for seven years, you just kept chipping away. Yeah, every month. Every month. What was the hardest part for you? The hardest part, I say, for me was just the daily grind. Yeah.

Of just keeping to the budget, writing it down. I mean, I had this big old huge poster board that's like that big that I looked at every time I went to sleep. And it's, I don't know if you see it on the screen, but it shows, I mean, $180,000. It's not for me. It was a lot of money for me. Yeah, for real.

So. But you did it. Yeah. And it was worth it. It was worth it. Oh, it's so much more freeing now. Yeah. It's awesome.

I have freedom. And it's just amazing how that feels. Great job, Tim. Thank you so much. Well done. You're going to be able to do a lot now that you don't have any payments. What's your first big thing you're going to do with money now that you don't have any payments what's your first big thing you're gonna do with money now that you don't have any payments well i paid it off last august so i went to australia with my brother that was fun i got there you go ding ding

that was a lot of fun paid for perfectly in cash and so it took care of that that was wonderful and then i did this and so it's just the freedom that you have of making choices and that's just you don't owe anybody any money. It's just amazing. I didn't realize that until I was out, how amazing that is. Well, it's easy to think about what it'll be like, but your body really even feels different when you're completely free. It's hard to tell people until they're there. Yeah. One last thing I'd like to mention, one thing I learned through this experience is that for me,

I found that the interest you pay on a debt is the price you pay for your own impatience. There's a cost to wanting something right now. And for me, that cost a lot of my money because I wasn't willing to wait. And so for those who are listening, be patient. The less money you give to the bank is more money for you.

And that's just the simple truth. It's a simple formula, but it works. Yeah, it really is. Proud of you, man. Thank you, sir. Who are your biggest cheerleaders out? Well, my mom was really very appreciative of a big cheerleader for me. And, you know, I had the Facebook Ramsey group that I listened to all the time to give me

encouragement. And that was so wonderful. That's a great group. Yeah, it was wonderful. The Baby Steps group. Yeah, yeah. Facebook. It was just a wonderful group.

Always positive, always encouraging. And so that was always wonderful. Very cool. Well, good for you, brother. Congratulations. Well done, man. Thank you, wonderful. Very cool. Well, good for you, brother. Congratulations. Well done, man. Thank you, sir.

Well done. If somebody's listening and maybe this is the first time they ever heard of this idea, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? The secret for me was writing it plain, writing on paper to pen and writing it visual. I, you know, as I said, I had that big poster board that was very visual to me and I had to make it a heart thing, not just a money thing. And so once I did that, it was just a matter of time,

not if it's going to happen, when it's going to happen. What's interesting is, is that not only are you debt free, but you've transformed. Yeah. You're a different person because of the process.

Yeah, it's been so amazing and the people here have been so wonderful to me it's been awesome good well we love having folks visit us here in the lobby particularly to do a debt-free scream baby everything yeah so we've got the uh live and give bundle for you the total money makeover book the baby steps millionaire book both number one best sellers and of course the financial peace university membership if you've done or have read any of those those are yours to give away as well so live and give enjoy them or give them or however you want to however you want to enjoy them that's they're there for you to say thank you for coming out here and we're very very proud of you you. Well, thank you, sir. Thank you so much for this. Very, very well done.

All right, Tim from Sacramento, $181,000 paid off in seven years and three months, making $48,000 to $68,000. House in California is paid off. Shut up. I love it. Count it down, Tim. Let's hear a debt-free scream. One, two, three. hear a debt-free scream one two three that's how you do it tim yeah i'm free well it sounds like when you get free oh when you get the chains off that's what it

sounds like pretty stinking incredible it's amazing absolutely amazing and i love it just and he said it was like it's it's the grind it's the everyday choices that you make seven day and that's long in a culture that in a culture that can't stay with something for seven minutes without picking up their phone and doom scrolling instagram oh and stay with something seven years. Consistently. Yep. Seven years. Pushing through, pushing through, pushing through, pushing through. And that's dedication.

I mean, because I do hear people talk about debt-free scrims. I'll see some haters online like, well, those people, they're making half a million dollars a year. And all of a sudden, I'm like, no. No, they're not. 48 to 68 and i'm like and it's just that diligence day in and day out and it's proof that anyone can tim is that

example anyone who believes that that it is possible and that they can work a plan they can do it and tim he's that he's that example it's amazing i read that tortoise in the hair book a bunch of times every time i read it the The tortoise wins! This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Ramsey Show. Common sense for your dollars and cents and for your life. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author of Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. Markita is with us in Seattle. Hey, Markita, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. And I need some help. I need assistance. I need guidance with how to set up an estate planning on behalf of my mom diagnosed with ALS. Here are the numbers. Thank you, Dave. It's a lot. It's a huge burden. How old is she? My mom is turning 73 this month in February. Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay. Thank you.

Oh, man. She owns a home. It's her primary home. The value of the land in the house is between $500,000 to $750,000. Her income of pension and Social Security is about $33,000 or $3,500 per month. Her mortgage, she owes $139,000 on her mortgage. She has $33,000. She owes $33,500 in credit card debt. She has a car that she's leasing, which has a balance of $23,000, $23,400.

And her total debt is $196,599. Including her mortgage, including the credit cards, including the lease. Yes, sir. Okay. And her plan is to keep the house and keep in the family. And I was wondering how would we go about... Why would you keep the house and the family? Those are her wishes.

I know, but why why does it matter is the house is the house family property or is it just her house it's family property yes it's been in the family generationally uh no since her since she since i was born into the house, so since she was married. Okay. Her medical bills are expected to be about $250,000 for ALS clinic, and we're wondering about what's the best way to go about this, because her wish is that she would like to keep the house and give it to one of the kids. Yeah.

I'm so sorry. So it to one of the kids. Yeah. I'm so sorry. So it's myself and two brothers. Yeah. Well, when you pass away, what you own stands good for what you owe. Okay? So if the family wanted to keep the house, they would have a $140,000 mortgage on the house still. They can pay that mortgage and keep the house, they would have a $140,000 mortgage on the house still. They can pay that mortgage and keep the house, but the clinic bills, the credit card, and

the car will all have to be paid. Right. So by asking you all to keep the house, she's asking you to take on the clinic bills, the car bill, and the credit card bill. Because there's no cash around to pay those things, correct? Well, as of now, I've moved in to assist her. And if I was to absorb the mortgage payment and the annual property taxes and her income can absorb the credit card debt

and pay that off. That's what we were thinking. In 10 months, and then you've got a car that you've got to deal with, and then you've got $250,000 in ALS clinic bills to deal with. Right. Am I missing something? No. Those are the numbers. Yeah numbers those are the facts so you have a harsh

uh diagnosis and a harsh reality that you're going to be walking through in the next whatever 12 to 36 months. Correct. And I don't want to be the person that adds another harsh reality to your situation, but the house will be sold. Okay. Because you can't pay the bills. And so the equity in the home will pay the bills. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry.

Listen, if you don't pay the clinic, they're going to sue the estate and take a lien on the house and force the sale of the house. And you don't have $250,000, and she doesn't either. And I guess neither of your brothers do, do they? My brother purchased a home last year, so as of now, no. Even if one of you is sitting on a $250,000

cash balance in your personal checking account, I would not suggest you use it to keep this house. I'm sorry. The house is there and we can use it for her final days and make her comfortable and there's nothing to keep you from doing that that that works fine and obviously the more of the credit card debt and the in the car you can clean up during that time with her income and you take care of the mortgage that That's all fine. Your brothers need to be aware that you're going to be reimbursed

for you paying the mortgage bill upon her death out of the proceeds or the sale of the house before they get any inheritance. But basically, there is enough to give you all some inheritance after everything's paid, but not much. Right. Because her net worth, her net worth with even adding a $250,000 medical bill to it paid, but not much. Right. Because her net worth,

her net worth with even adding a $250,000 medical bill to it is approaching zero. Got it. So what sort of trust or estate planning would you recommend? Just a will. Because you can't hide these things in a trust and keep this from happening. Okay. So just need a good will. Uh, you need to go see an estate planning attorney and they can help you draft a will

that, uh, gives these instructions. But, and I don't know how to break this to your mom. I don't know how to be kind to her with the, uh, you know know especially in this setting but um i i've never participated in things where we didn't tell the everybody the whole truth that it turned out well got it and so i mean you could just choose to not tell her and just draw up a will that says that you guys get the house but the answer is when it actually goes to probate court, you're going to find out you can't keep the house. No matter what the will says.

Because the will does not have the power to do away with all these debts. You follow me? Yes. And so you still end up with the equation, what you own minus what you owe. Your net worth is how it works. Now, you guys don't inherit the debt. Let's pretend that if the medical bills are a million dollars, then they're just not going to get paid because there's not enough money in her estate to pay them.

And you guys do not inherit debt. That's good news. But you don't inherit assets without paying all the bills associated with the estate. That makes sense. I'm so sorry. No, it's so hard. And I don't want to be the guy telling you all this stuff, but that gets to be my job today, I guess. Right.

We'll pray for you, darling. So a living trust would not work either. It won't cause this to go away. It just is another way to facilitate the exact same answer. Okay. You can't hide assets in a trust from debt. You can hide them from people and keep people's hands off of them. And it's a little bit more way of a strong arm to

ensure an estate wishes go the way you want because it's in trust and you can't you can't it's harder to break a trust than it is a will but um but neither one of them are that easy to break actually assuming they're drawn up properly but but still at the end of the day the creditors get paid there's not an estate planning tool a a living trust, an irrevocable trust. There's not an estate planning tool that makes debt go away. Makes sense. Or the results of the debt. And the results of the debt is the person that is owed can collect their money as long as there's something to collect against. And so if the house were in the trust, the equity in the house, it goes to the beneficial

interest of an individual. However, the trust and the beneficial interest can be sued because it's part of the estate. So I'm not an attorney. You probably, you do need to sit down with one, and you need to spend a little bit of money getting a proper wheel drawn up to make sure i'm not right but i'm afraid you're gonna find out i'm right i'm sorry wow oh my goodness this puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.