The Ramsey Show - App - I Didn’t Get the Raise I Was Promised (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How to manage a settlement, What to do when you didn't get a raise you were promised, Financially preparing to change careers. Gazelle – Terms & Conditions Apply. Visit www.ramseysolutions.com/gazelle for more information. Established by Pathward, N.A., Member FDIC. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, real, amazing relationships. Life as it's supposed to be done. We invite your calls today. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show,

where he talks about work and about career every day, is here as my co-host today on the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. 888-825-5225. Lynn is with us. Lynn is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. How are you, Lynn? I'm great. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So several months ago, my kids and I and my husband were in a car accident, in an accident, and we are getting a settlement. My kids especially are going to be getting a good settlement. And I'm wondering, what is the best way to go about saving that? Okay. Are they, is everybody okay? Yes. Yeah. I'm glad. So there's, is there any ongoing medical need or future surgeries that we need to set money aside for? Surprisingly, no. Good. Okay. All right. And so what do you think the size of this is going to be? What have they indicated?

My youngest child is going to be getting about $100,000, and then we have about $50,000 in medical bills for him. For him. And then the other kids, it's going to be a couple thousand for them. But has he got a permanent situation from this? No, it was just when it happened, my kids are here because it wasn't their time to go. Like, I believe that.

It's a bad wreck. And we were really, yeah, we were really blessed. It was a pedestrian auto accident, and my kids were, we were the pedestrians. But your baby got $50,000 in medical bills but is completely healed. Yes. Wow. Thank you, Lord. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to the world, but I know it wasn't his time to go.

Yeah. I'm more than comfortable with that, and I'm also glad for him and you. But I'm thinking about how to allocate the money. So the bottom line is we don't need to allocate the money for anything. You've already covered the $50,000 in medical bills? Or the $50 in medical bills or the 50th coming out of this hundred that's coming out of the hundred okay all right and the others are going to get a handful of dollars all right now yeah this is coming through an attorney in a settlement process i assume correct okay in more cases than i like the court will dictate to you what you can invest this in.

I don't like it because I think the parent should be allowed to decide what to invest for their own child instead of the judge being the parent. But a lot of judges will take the position that the parents are idiots, and so the child must be protected from their idiot parent's investment. I disagree with that on a lot of levels, morally, legally, and everything else, but it doesn't matter. The judge may tell you you have to put it in something stupid like just a CD. It may not even keep up with inflation if you do that. Okay? If you have the option, this child's not going to need this money until they're grown.

No, he's not. Then I would set the money aside in a mutual fund. I'd get with a smart investor pro and pick a series of mutual funds it's how i invested my own kids money that i invested for their college so why wouldn't i invest this kind of money there where it came from doesn't matter what matters is that they don't need it for 20 years or so and what matters is that, you know, we need to outpace inflation, right? Right. And I know, you know, with interest, hopefully, you know, he'll have a good chunk when he's 18 because he's only two now.

So he has several years. And so I'm trying to also figure out how to best teach him to use it wisely so he doesn't turn you know get it when he's a certain age and be dumb yeah don't don't number one don't let him be surprised that it's there um it's like sex don't wait till they're 20 to tell them exactly because they'll mess the whole thing up you know and so we need to talk about it age appropriately we don't slam a three-year-old with too much information right right but we do slam a three-year-old with too much information, right? Right. But we do teach a three-year-old something's happening, right?

There's something there. And so money, we're going to teach the kid how to handle money because we expect them to have some. By the way, we're going to do that with all your kids. This is what rich people do. They teach kids how to handle money age appropriately. We don't make the five-year-old go to the salt mines, but we do teach them to work because they need to call Ken Coleman for a career later, right? That's right. Absolutely. And I think, Dave, I think this is great advice, too, is as you walk him along and the others, you know, at some point they may talk and he got more of a settlement than they did. So I think

this is, you know, telling everybody and the kids, this is not some big secret. This was something that happened because what you don't want is resentment uh to grow either so i think this is probably need to be more uh transparent than than normal it's the only way extra conversations and extra communication shut down uh all kinds of things because this a horrible event and is a is a part and and the survival of it the miraculous survival of it is uh part of your family story now yeah and so we're going to tell that we're going to tell that story not to continually bring up trauma but it's um it's god's hand on our life yeah and it's part of the story it's part of who we are at our house and part of it was little one got hurt worse and got more money and that's just the way life worked

and so yeah you go ahead and talk about that i wouldn't surprise the siblings either that he's getting some money when he gets there or she gets there right we've already told him you know we're you guys will be getting some money but we're not yeah we don't need to talk about it look we didn't talk about what the ramsey net worth was until our kids were grown and we started talking about estate planning with them you know like when they were in college we started talking about it but we you know they knew we had some money but I didn't want them running around school going my dad has a bigger net worth than your dad and the community we live in that's kind of a thing so um you know I yeah I just want them to think we know we're just working stiffs and we are working stiffs

we just did really well and so i wanted but i wanted them to feel the responsibility of it after i had built their character on saving giving working spending wisely throughout their whole years so by the time i turned this on and we started that meeting with as for me in my house we serve the lord so this is actually a responsibility to manage god's resources for his glory it is not you hit the lotto and so when they see the number they actually kind of felt the weight of the number uh instead of uh woohoo i can be in a reality show now that's right i'm stupid and my parents have money and so you know uh that kind of stuff right and so they didn so they didn't have that reaction, and none of my three did. But again, it was a gradual increased process through the years.

So I would invest it in mutual funds, and I would just age appropriately, begin to reveal that it's there, to where by the time we get there, you're not afraid he's going to go crazy or she's going to go crazy and head off to the Caribbean and do cocaine or something because he suddenly got a bunch of money. I mean, it's just, you know, we're going to fix all this ahead of time. So my friend Andy Andrews says we're not raising kids to be great kids. We're raising kids to be great adults.

And that's really the target here. That's where we're going. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី ken colman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream on this show, it's because at some point they finally said, I've had it. Enough. I'm not living like this anymore. When you get mad like that and do what they did, your life changes. Right now with inflation, recession, gas prices, your stupid credit cards, your ridiculous student loans, you start to believe you're not in control. Well, you are in control.

You have to decide to take control of what you can control, and that is, by the way, you, the person in your mirror. You have the power to change your future, and Financial Peace University is how we show you that you can do it. This course will teach you the proven step-by-step plan that's helped nearly 10 million people get out of debt, master budgeting become wealthy and outrageously generous change your family tree and you can do this stop letting

debt and money stress control your life say that say it i've had it say enough enough take back your control start financial peace university at ramSolutions.com slash enough. RamseySolutions.com slash enough. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you mess up, and I have, or pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time, and they run them all the time.

Just use Ramsey as your promo code. It's magic. free shipping new promos all the time and they run them all the time just use the ramsey use ramsey as your promo code it's magic the promo code is ramsey blinds.com today's question comes from tom in new york with the growing cost of living here in the new york city area i thought it was a good time to ask my manager for a raise the day after our meeting they offered me a seven percent raise and i was ecstatic an hour later they backtracked and said my raise would actually be only three percent i'm grateful for the raise but this backtracking on the amount felt like a slap in the face should i just be grateful or should i try to negotiate oh dave this is uh some type of leadership fail here on some level poor leader yeah this is just

really bad i don't think it's a slap in the face, Tom. I think it's a gut punch, and that's normal to feel that way. I don't think you can renegotiate here because I think this is a clear sign of a leadership error. Somebody spoke out of their hat, and they couldn't deliver what they said they were going to deliver. Their hat. Yeah, that's what they did. Well, I'm trying to choose the G-rated option for today's show. We have to not bleep you out of our own show. Exactly.

That's family-friendly, folks. But I don't think renegotiation is the option here. I'll tell you what I would do. I want to know why. That's what I would do. I think I'd sit down and go, hey, listen, I feel like I've been kicked in the gut, and I just want to know what happened between the time you told me seven and an hour later when you told me three.

I think that's fair to ask um because I don't know I'm not trying to be ungrateful I'm not trying to be a jerk but you know I mean put yourself in my shoes when you feel a little weird about that so I feel a little weird about it I want to know during that hour did I do something wrong no I probably didn't so what happened okay what's exactly well I I overspoke and my boss slapped me down and maybe you know maybe maybe maybe drop it to three because I didn't really have the budget to do it. Okay, that's helpful to at least have that experience. That's correct.

And information, right? I mean, and so it still doesn't change it all together. You're still getting the same amount of money. But, you know, if you know why, then that makes a lot of difference. I think that's incredible advice there because it's the gut punch. It's still there but if you know what happened and you understand that sometimes people make mistakes and they wanted to give it to you i would be grateful in this situation i would be grateful for the three percent if it's a legitimate

reason uh but if you're gonna have to move bureaucratic yeah that would bother butthole answer i'm looking for a job hundred percent because here's what happens we just don't do that right you know well yeah we don't we don't give people seven percent raises uh wait a minute you did you said it that's correct and that's the difference between being valued in an organization a healthy leader is going to go i blew it dude i actually blew it well they should have said that with the they should have on the three percent they should they should have not done it start with but uh you know uh because you don't step in it dude it is seven percent that's what would happen here i might kick the leader's butt that made the mistake but uh but the guy's getting his seven because we told

him he's getting his seven oh i was going to ask you what how would you handle that situation i mean you know unless we didn't have the money right if we simply didn't have the money but if it's just a bozo thing then you know leader leaders you know i had one of our leaders um we you know we we teach that you know if you're going to confront someone you talk talk to them about the things they're doing right we talk about this behavior that's wrong and then we talk about things that they're doing right. A sandwich, right? It's an old one-minute manager thing, right? And so, you want to call it whatever, a sandwich, right? And one of our leaders was fairly new, and I just went in and said, look, that sucked. Don't do that again. And he goes, where's the sandwich? Well, you're a leader. You get get no bread you just get the meat funny that's funny that's where's if you're a leader you get you just get the information right but you know i'll give you

the sandwich if i'm leading a subordinate but i mean you're you just screwed this up and you're supposed to be acting like you run the place so oh my god yeah that's uh so you're eating the seven percent out of your budget yeah and uh in your area and we're going to figure it out but if if not if there's absolutely no money and it was truly a financial error that has to be changed then you've at least got to learn how to uh to explain something like this it doesn't make it that much better it makes it does it makes it a lot better yeah it does a solid reason humans will listen to yes honesty to say i messed up i messed up and here's what happened and here's what you know and i got you know my boss took my freaking

head off when i went in there because i messed this up i overstepped my bounds and it's so it's on me it's my fault you own You own it. And that's just like human. This quick leadership lesson here, folks, with what Dave just said. If you as a leader don't own everything and give them all the details that you can possibly give them, meaning you leave it as a vacuum in their mind, they will fill it with their own narrative. And that's where it becomes toxic and dangerous. You as the leader got to make sure that the narrative is correct. Yeah.

When in doubt, people don't believe positive things. Without information, they immediately believe negative things. I agree. So these companies that their communication is mushroom communication, keep everybody in the dark and feed them manure, it doesn't work. No. It doesn't work. That's corporate America, though. All right. Kimberly is with us. Kimberly

is in Tucson. Hi, Kimberly. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Great. Hey, so I am in baby step number two. I have $56,000 of student loans and a car payment that I've been paying off very quickly, putting anywhere from $1,500 to $2,000 a month towards my debt. And I'm trying to pull all of the levers to get me out of debt in the next two years. And one of the options I have is to get a roommate for my spare bedroom. And so I haven't been in a roommate situation for about, I don't know, seven, eight years now. And so I'm wondering if, like, what is the best way for me to manage my finances for this split? And what I was calculating yesterday was based off of the last three months of rent plus the utilities. The average cost would be $1,570 a month for all in total. And so divided by two would leave me $780.

But I felt like it was fair to drop it down to $700 because I have an office in the house. So I'm using more room of the house. And I also have the carport, which is a luxury in Tucson, Arizona. So I'm wondering, really, my question is, should I go down the path of lumping the utilities into the rent and advertise this spare bedroom as as 700 utilities included or should i do a rent price and then split utilities every month with the um roommate i would do including utilities as long as when you look at the place where you're going to advertise it that that's

what other people are doing. Okay. And here's why. Here's why. That's exactly what I thought, too. Here's why. As long as the $700 doesn't change, nothing changes here. But every month, the utilities change.

And when that price goes up, the price goes down. The price goes up, the price goes down. And you have to go through this additional collection procedure every single month. Yeah. You're kind of giving them a reason to re-evaluate every month whether they stay yeah i'm kind of good with them getting bored yeah and it's a little bit higher on the emotional side of the whole you gotta you gotta deal with you gotta do it with two or three collections i mean or instead of just the rent you can also collect your portion of water your portion of gas your portion of whatever and so it's just a lot cleaner a lot simpler a lot less stress on everybody

a little more boring and i would do that Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of Paycheck Purpose, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Josh and Ashley are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're doing great, Dave. How are you doing? Better than we deserve, brother. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're from Burgistown, Pennsylvania, which is right outside of Pittsburgh. Awesome. Very cool. So how much debt have you guys paid off? We had $147,500 that we paid off.

Love it. How long did this take you? It took us nine years. Wow. All right. And your range of income during that time? With overtime and bonuses, we started in the 80s and now we're between 100 and 150. Okay. Way to go, guys. Very good job. All right. And what kind of debt was the $148,000? It was our house. Hey, look at it, weird people. Wow. No payments in the world. How's that feel? It feels great. I can't imagine. How old are you two? I'm 33. I'm 34. All right. And you have a paid for house. That's right. What's the house worth? We bought it. It was worth 150 and it's hard to say what it's worth now. Okay. But you bought it like nine years ago. Yeah.

So it's probably worth $400 or $500? It's definitely up a few bucks at this point. Yeah, definitely. Okay. You don't even care because you're not selling it. That's right. All right. Good.

Way to go, you guys. Way to go. So tell us, what do you guys do for a living? I'm an operations supervisor for a midstream natural gas company. I'm a mom and a wife. I love it. Very good. Good for you guys. Household executive. I like it. That works for me. I knew you were going to say that. So the 148,009 years, tell us how this all got started. How'd you get introduced to this whole Ramsey stuff? So before I was an operations supervisor i was a instrument electrical technician and i was

on my way to a call out and i was scrolling through channels and you were on the college station and that was the beginning of everything okay so you heard us squawking about this on the radio that's right and you said uh wait a minute maybe i could pay this off yep so bought the books and then uh not too long after, we went and did FPU. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. So, Ashley, you just were along for the ride, or did you push back against this, or was it all your idea, and he's just making it like it is?

It was not my idea, no. I am the free spirit. Okay. But I am the first one to cut off my credit card. Ah. Out of the two of us. Ah, she wins that contest. Yeah, there you go. go okay i'll show you

so when he comes home and he starts talking about dave and the show and all this stuff and he paints the picture what do you think it's gonna do for you guys how quickly did you jump on board at least from okay this makes sense to all right i'm to be the first one to cut the card? I don't know. I think at first I was, even after I cut the card, I was kind of really frustrated with him over the whole budget thing. I can remember our first two budget meetings I cried. Oh, wow.

Was it the process that made you cry or the taskmaster there beside you? The taskmaster. Uh-oh. Is that me? Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Is that me? Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Honest to a flaw. There we go.

Too much truth. I like it. I love it. That's fun. That's fun. Because the first budget committee meetings are emotionally, they're gut-wrenching. Because you're A, you're having to look at all your stuff. And it's like, man, did we screw up some stuff?

And man, have we got some opportunity to go win here and then you got to start going man we got to cut back and i got to watch this and it's all your fault and man you can have some of the biggest fights of your entire marriage in those first two budget meetings and uh that's a very real thing that's a very real thing so you guys push through real thing. So you guys push through. Here you are nine years later. And boom, house is paid for. Was it worth it? It was totally worth it.

Yes. Will you go back in debt? No, that's not the plan at all. My favorite part, I think, is the peace part. The financial peace part. I think that's my favorite part. You do kind of relax in a place you didn't even realize was hurting. You know, and you go, wow, I didn't realize I was carrying around 300 pounds until I set it down.

You said one time that some people have a security organ, and I tell him all the time I have a security organ. Absolutely. It's very real. And financial peace, two words that don't go together, like airline service. It's pretty incredible. Well, I'm proud of you guys.

What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? The budget was huge. But it was a crazy ride through the end. The last year was just pretty wild. We started off on a pretty paved surface. We had just had baby number four. And then I got promoted and I finished my bachelor's degree. All right.

And I work for an awesome company. We say we because it's a package deal. But we had just taken six weeks of paternity leave paid for so very cool stuff what's your what's your what'd you get your degree in uh engineering management oh wow very good so but we came back off of uh paternity leave and uh we found out that uh ashley had stage four cancer oh no so we didn't even do a budget for about four months while we were working through the early stages of that. But we had been so disciplined and used to doing it that we knew what we could spend. We had an emergency fund. We had our family, our friends, our church, and our

work family taking care of us and supporting us. And we were able to keep on going. And then things started turning around there and then very unexpectedly we uh lost my dad in january so wow it's a tough run on the end there you're right so how you doing now actually i'm good um i will forever always have treatment um but it was actually i say this and people kind of look at me weird but like it was actually, I say this and people kind of look at me weird, but like it was actually really cool. There was a period of time where I didn't get out of bed. Would you say like six weeks? Thereabouts.

But I never thought that I would get to be where I'm at now. I'm kind of back to where, maybe not necessarily back to where I was before, but close to back to what I was before. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It's pretty cool. It's a great recovery.

Yeah. Praise God. Good stuff. Okay. Really cool. I like the end of this story better. Yeah. And so to tout the plan, if you really want to test your financial game plan, get cancer

and see where you're at on the other side. Yeah. So that'll check everything out for sure. Wow. Well, what an incredible story, you two. You're amazing. We're proud of you. Well done.

Well done. Excellent, excellent job. All right, bring the kiddos up. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you, how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too. And, of course, that'll be the next chapter in you guys' story. We've also got an additional membership for one year at financial peace university maybe give that away since you've been through it i don't care go back through it good for us either way and uh

total money makeover is there for you to give away as well so we all those gifts what are your kids names and ages good oh we can't hear them you're gonna have to tell us this is hannah she's nine this is caleb he's five lc she's seven and levi's 18 months all right very good all right josh and ashley and the gang from pennsylvania i love it 148 000 paid off in nine years, making $80,000 to $150,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two. Ready? One, two, three.

We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Woo! Some help in the countdown. Yeah, little Levi had another idea there another idea there's like wait a second i want to say something i got something to say yeah well done well i'll tell you what life is going to happen to you anyway that's the truth so you might as well be on a plan to prosper while you're doing it and to put yourself in a position to uh not have to worry about prosper while you're doing it, and to put yourself in a position to not have to worry about money

while you're fighting stage four. Oh, my God. I mean, that's amazing she came back from that. Really true. That's pretty strong. That peace allows you to focus on what you need to to persevere. But when you've got money problems and then life throws the extra problems at you, it only compounds.

And this is a wonderful example of that. That's exactly right. That's how it works. I mean, this idea that, you know know it's that forrest gump thing one less thing to worry about it's true it's uh you got to really have a whole way a whole different way of viewing this stuff and um this freedom gives you every bit of that proud of those guys they're heroes man family took control of their life nine years the struggle goes on, but they're 100% debt-free, house and everything, and the other side of a cancer fight. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. Teksting av Nicolai Winther Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show.

Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. You know, every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream, it's because at some point they said, Enough! I'm not living like this anymore. I've had it! You have to have that moment where you say, That's it. Enough! And when you get mad like that,

that's when you're getting ready to change your life. Inflation, stupid credit cards, gas prices, it's killing you. And it may be your time right now to rise up and say enough. You know, you have to decide to control what you can control. And that's you, your behavior. You have the power to control and change your future financial peace university is where we've shown 10 million people how to do that and it's a proven step-by-step plan and you want to get out of debt get on a budget build wealth be outrageously generous learn about investing it's the class you should have taken in

high school but you didn't. So now it's time to be sick and tired of being sick and tired. Say, that's it. I've had enough. I'm done. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash enough. RamseySolutions.com slash enough. And get yourself into Financial Peace University.

Bill is with us. Bill is in San Antonio. Except that's not the line there it is bill's in san antonio hey bill how are you i'm not deserved sir how are you just the same how can we help okay so to keep it short i am 28 i'm a software developer with a household income of about 5 000 a month my wife is 25 and as a full-time grad student. We are on baby step three, so we're completely debt-free. However, we are currently cash-flowing my wife's final year of grad school, so we don't have that much saved.

Here's my question. I'd like to go back to school myself and change careers, however, to a career that would pay significantly less money than I'm currently earning. I'd like to pursue pastoral ministry. It is a passion and a calling I've felt for over a decade, and I've been deeply involved in local church throughout the time. However, I'm very deeply concerned with how I'd support a wife and any future kids we might have on a pastor's salary.

So how do I prepare financially to be a minister with a family? Lots of pastors I know make $60,000 and more. Yeah. I think you've created a... What are you worried about specifically? How much, how limited we would be, we'd be able to uh pay for home or for our kids uh college expenses in the future um if we're only making 60 or something close to that you're making 60 now you said you make 5 000 a month uh right but we don't have any kids right now and we don't

and we're only renting we're like we don't have significant expenses right now well uh bill let me give you a real life scenario here um i just uh over the weekend was uh back in the hampton roads virginia area visiting my mom and dad for my brother's daughter's wedding and just reveling in the living room late on Saturday night with my mom and dad about 47 years of ministry. My dad recently retired. He never made more than $40,000 a year. My brother and I both went to college. My mom and dad have paid their house off. It's been paid off for 20 years. It's a false narrative that you can't raise kids and help send your kids to college by being a pastor. And my dad pastored small churches. So, you know,

your income ability in multiple positions within ministry, multiple, okay, can easily make 60. And I think Dave can make the case that you can do everything you want to do for your family with your family making $60,000. I'm just giving you a real-life scenario. That's really helpful. Yeah, I know that the compensation could be extremely variable. I talked to one pastor who was making as little as $30,000 or $35,000. Okay, hold on. What was his scenario?

What was his situation? He was a full-time pastor in philadelphia of how big of a church that i don't know i can guarantee is very small so you're choosing the extreme edge here um to kind of validate your fear and if i could just challenge you uh this is what you feel called to and if and i'm not going to question that but if you believe that you're called to ministry then you also believe that god will provide what you need and at some point you're going to have to uh choose faith over fear you know this you can preach on it absolutely and um yeah and two other pieces of information 80 of people in um in america today that are pastors are bivocational they work two jobs and so your days of uh being a software engineer are probably not over

um i know lots and lots of pastors uh financial peace university has been taught over 50 000 churches now so we've got an intimate look at the finances of the pastors the finances of the churches for three decades now and the vast majority of them make over sixty thousand dollars a year uh in a church of you know reasonable size but if you're going to pastor 45 people or 100 people you're not going to make any money uh but if you're going to grow a church and have a ministry that has some impact on you know a larger number of people than that then you're going to get yourself in a position reasonably to make a decent income.

And anytime you want to add to it, then you can just, you know, pick up some software development stuff, some software engineering stuff, and you've got that skillset. The second thing I would add to this is education is always, not always,

education in your chosen field that is applicable continued personal growth is always a good idea and so a pastor who continues to study doctrine theology greek hebrew and so on uh is a good idea throughout the rest of your life uh but there are many movements within the evangelical circles that do not require a degree at all to pastor. I know many, many pastors of substantial churches who are great theologians who never darken the door of a seminary except to go speak to them occasionally. And so the requirement to have a seminary degree in order to be a pastor

is simply not there in the marketplace that you're in. Is it preferable that you're knowledgeable? You bet. I would add to that. I think you ought to go to Israel and actually see where the Bible happened and walk around on those spots before you preach a sermon. It would really change the whole world for you.

I did, I did that late in my faith walk and it changed everything in the way I read and saw the Bible and the way I teach the Bible. And so, yeah, you know, there's a lot to the whole thing of gathering up information and knowledge in your faith. But the requirement of an expensive seminary degree to make $35,000 a year is simply not real. That's not true. So you can start pastoring now, and you can add your formal education as you go along. And, you know, if you pick up an extra $40,000 on top of your current income and start pastoring now bivocationally, then start adding some classes in, grow your ministry.

Over time, you're making $60,000, $100,000. It's not that unusual at all. You're ministering to 500 or 1,000 people. Not that unusual at all. And that's, you know, there's a whole lot of need for that in america today and uh for men and women that do that kind of thing so um and yes seminary is a good idea i'm not trashing education i don't do that but but you know one of the things you talk about ken is is it a requirement to enter the space and the answer is no here it's's not. And realistically, you know, you need to be thinking about what is my entry point, because there's

lots of different ways you could go. I will tell you, unless you have a specific heart to plant a church, meaning to start a church from scratch, which let me just tell you, that is the hardest thing in the world to do. Let me just tell you, it is. My dad did it twice. But you may serve yourself well by getting in on a staff and learning ministry from a terrific leader above you and taking your time to move up. So a lot of this right now needs to be, where do you see yourself 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the line in ministry? Is it a parachurch organization, which is just as much ministry as a traditional church? These are the questions I'd like you to figure out right now by hanging out with people that are doing ministry in those roles.

And then you'll get verification on where you want to go and then the best way to get there. Yeah, if you could get on staff somewhere now, you could contract your software engineering and work a full-time job. I think that's a great idea. Working as a full-time job. Yeah, that'd be very possible. A lot of options there, dude. A lot of options. A lot of ways to get at it.

Thanks for being a listener. Thanks for calling in. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.

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