The Ramsey Show - App - I Don’t Trust My Boyfriend With Money (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Ken Coleman & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss:   "Things that business leaders get wrong", "I don't trust my boyfriend with money", "Is it time for a change?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the POTS movie and storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show. This is where we talk about your life with you, specifically your money, your relationships, and your work. Three inextricably fancy words there. It just means they are absolutely connected, and there's nothing you can do about it. We want you to win in all three areas, because if you're not, it's affecting the other areas. We want you to win in all three

areas, and that's why we do it. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. We'll take your calls on any of those subjects. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. We'll take your calls on any of those subjects. 888-825-5225. All right, John, to that end, when you and I are together for the Building Wealth Live events, we do a fun pre-show where we talk about work and love, relationships and work, you know, and how they are absolutely connected. And I shared something on my show earlier today, The Ken Coleman Show, that I honestly would have loved to have had you in studio. And it was based on a comment that a guy made on social media to me recently. We were talking about people making money and that money's not enough. You can make a lot of money, but at the end of the day, that kind of wears off.

And if you're miserable or you're not experiencing real meaning, as you derive it, as in this matters to me, it can get pretty old fast. And a guy goes, oh, that's crazy. And he's like, I'd shovel this. So my question to you is, what miserable work would you do for a million dollars? Is there work my my stock answer is uh there's very very few jobs on planet earth i would not do that you would not do a million dollars right and you know my response to that is but no you wouldn't it's exactly right i would do it for

about three weeks and then yeah and that's because you're really tough and i wouldn't be able to take it yeah three weeks is a long time that's right right. I have found over the course of my career that when I find myself in moments without purpose or without meaning, or I don't feel like I'm contributing, I feel like I'm a glorified administrative assistant or that I'm in a structure where success is not possible, the dollar amount matters zero.

Because what happens to you from your personal experience? You and I've both been there i it's this awesome cascade of rage to anger to this to reality to pure boredom yeah i just start you start standing off into space like what am i doing here yeah so this isn't just john and i's experience and opinion john what does science say can we can we is it okay yeah is it okay to look at some science? So scientists have found that monotonous work, in other words, using the word that John just used, boredom, boring work, can negatively impact mental health, be a huge cause of stress, and ultimately lead

to burnout. Let's go further. The chronically bored are at a higher risk for drug addiction, alcoholism, and compulsive gambling. In her paper, Neuroscience Reveals That Boredom Hurts, Dr. Judy Willis, a neurologist and former classroom teacher, claims that when we're bored, our judgment, goal-directed planning, risk assessment, focus, and control over our emotions all suffer. Yikes, John! Yeah. And here's the crap. All from boredom.

The crappy way we've set up in corporate structures, business structures. I'm going to say corporate. Business structures is only a couple of people at the tip, tip, top get the, because they're so sophisticated and they're such good planners and thinkers. The rest of y'all just, y'all mind your business and we'll pat you on the head and we'll tell you what to do later

with your TPS reports. Instead of, I think you and I were talking earlier, Jocko so eloquently says, you better equip the frontline people to own this thing, make decisions and go. And instead of minimizing the,

or collapsing the decision-making structure and the purpose-making structure into a few elites. Your industry will end. Your company will end if that's the way you do it. So the bumper sticker is, for those of you that are feeling this or those of you that are leading people, be careful of monotony because monotony robs people of autonomy. And let's just, simple words, freedom. Freedom. Freedom to make a choice. That's a cornerstone of mental health, physical health, all of it, relational health. So there you go. By the way, one last piece of data, Korn Ferry, a well-known management firm, polled nearly 5,000 professionals, and the top reason that people look for a new job is boredom. Boredom.

We as humans long for progress, and in order to get progress, we must be challenged. That's what is at the core of enjoyment at work. Am I being challenged? The moment that I'm bored, I get distracted, and I go distract myself with pleasure, but what I need is progress. That's why I think the whole corporate speak, the whole leadership speak, we have it backwards. I don't think you climb the ladder. I think the more responsibility you obtain and are given, and the more people you have to serve in a leadership capacity, you're moving down the ladder, carrying more and more weight and passing along those opportunities for people to do hard things, to fail, to have purpose, to go out and achieve and go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

It's not reserved for a few highfalutin thinkers. The more responsibility you get, you are moving down the ladder, carrying more and more of that responsibility. That's what you're getting paid for. That's right. Right? It's the balance and all. No question. Not to stand up there and dust your journal off and to be like,

oh, don't trouble me with my thoughts. Your people are, look around, man. They're going to leave. They're going to leave, man. They're absolutely going to leave because they want a better life. You think you're trying to give them a better job. They want a better life. And until you realize the connection between the work, it's not just a better financial life.

It's better mental health. It's better everything, everything because we want to be challenged. So, uh, really interesting stuff there for those of you who feel stuck in one of those, uh, type jobs, John, I'd love to help you jump in. Uh, but let's get to James in Indianapolis, Indiana right now. James, how can we help? Hey, guys. My name is – sorry. My question today is I'm 19 years old, and I'm thinking about getting married. And with that comes the engagement, the wedding, and then after that buying a house. And I'm wondering if I should be investing over, I don't know, like a six year timeframe or if I should just be saving up cash that whole time.

When's the wedding? I haven't even engaged. I'm thinking about it in like the next year or two. Do you have any debt? No. Okay. So you're familiar with our Baby Steps, right? Yes. So what Baby Step are you in?

Are you in Baby Step 4, essentially? 4, yep. Okay, great. Or 3B, I guess, technically. So you're technically saving for a house right now? I mean, sort of. It's kind of a five-year vision. How much are you going to...

Dude, you've got horses and carts all over the place, man. Listen, brother, go get a job and work really hard. And if you're already at baby step, if you want to start saving for a house for yourself, great. If you think, I'm going to be married in the next 24 to 36 months, save your money because you're going to want to make that a joint purchase with your wife. And then, dude, work really hard and put money, like put your 15% in your mutual fund through your 401 at work or call a SmartVestor Pro. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pros

and go down that route. Or put it in a money market account and save your money, dude. You are way, way, way, way overthinking this. Enjoy being young. Enjoy being engaged. And enjoy being married, man. The rest of that stuff will work itself out. Just follow the baby steps.

Don't get too sophisticated. So don't stop the baby steps one foot in front of the other. Let's make sure she says yes. That's what I'd be locking in on. Let's close the deal, John. Got to make sure she's going to say yes so we can move forward on everything else. But thank you for the call. Hey, he's Dr. John Deloney. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You have joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show,

helping you with your money, your relationships, and your work. I'm Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, joining me in studio this hour. A lot of you are planning to move sometime soon. And while that's exciting, got to be real, in most places around the country, you're going to be facing sky high home prices and interest rates aren't returning to their record low. So that doesn't make home ownership impossible. But if you want to buy or sell, you've got to make sure you're financially ready and that you've got a trusted and experienced real estate agent to walk you through it. Not a family friend like Uncle Larry, who just got his license last month. Someone who knows what they're doing. They've been doing it

for a long time and they're going to take good care of it. You can find that high caliber Ramsey trusted agent through our endorsed local providers program. We vet these agents from around the country so that you have the best support, whether you're moving from Florida to Alaska or buying your first home somewhere in between. You know, I kind of expected you to come in with a little Lee Greenwood from the lakes of Minnesota to the hills of Tennessee. I thought that would have been good there. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. ramsaysolutions.com slash agent to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent today. That's important. Now that song's going to be in my head. I know. I've done it. I've gone and I've ruined it and messed your track. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. See, you almost did it. Hey, let's

get to the phones. Now's the time to stop singing, John. Antonia is joining us in Detroit, Michigan. Antonia, how can we help? Hi, how are you? We're having a blast. What's going on? So my question today is I don't trust my boyfriend with money. Do we have a future?

Uh-oh. I want to back that question up um let's stop it you added a second part to it that is not super necessary you don't trust your boyfriend period yes what else do you not trust him on besides money um he i I found like him on the, like social media, like talking to other women. He felt like it's not cheating. Bah, Felicia. Wow. Bah. Bah.

What's his explanation for that? I'm sorry, can you repeat that? What's his explanation? Because you said, uh, he doesn't think it's cheating. So I'm curious what does he call that yeah i told him i'm like it does cheating oh it's not cheating because it's not in a physical form i'm like you're like lusting over women you're seeing online no boy dude those gas lights are burning brightly aren't they they? Listen, let me ask you this.

So he's not here to defend himself. No. So let me ask you, you're the only person I got to talk to. Is that cool? Yeah. Why do you think so little of my friend Antonia that you're settling for this? Well, it's not that. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

I think. Yes, it is. Why? Well, maybe you have a point. So, I'm a single mother. Yep. With a three-year-old son, I'm new, like, new to, like, motherhood. Me and the father, it didn't work out.

I injured my back at work. So, and I'm,'m like i needed this surgery so i ended up gaining all of this weight you know like when you have a partner you expect your partner to be there for you and i feel like i didn't get that because like when i was off work for a year um when we have fights or anything the first thing he bring up is oh i paid your rent well i'm like well like you might as well say you're a roommate because you live here. We're not married. So it's a little bit of everything.

So he's a bit of security. Even though he's not treating you well, it's like, well, at least he's done that. He was, right. But here's the thing. So it's really common that all these other stories that we are told eventually become the stories we tell ourselves. And you've got a narrative that you're worth less because you gained weight. You've got a narrative that because you got hurt and you reached out to the person who is supposed to be your partner in

this adventure called life, called raising a kid, and he weaponized that against you and said, well, look at what I'm doing for you. You have this story that you're a single mom and that you're now somehow less than. All those stories are false. 100% of them. They're not true. I agree. And so I do 1000% believe that whoever you're dating is probably a lot of fun, is probably makes you laugh and probably makes you feel loved. And all three of those things are amazing. And he's making other women feel that way too. And when you say I have a need I'm uncomfortable with he makes you feel crazy and stupid for having

that thought or need or feeling not supporting you yes and so you don't trust him on a number of different issues money is one of them i was a train wreck when it came to money but i was a trustworthy guy does that that make sense? I would never tell somebody, like, man, my husband spins like crazy. We figure that out. If I had said, and I was baiting you a little bit when I said, what else do you not trust him on?

If you had said nothing, he's actually super ironclad, he's trustworthy, then that would have been a different answer. But you, you're not going to like this. At the end of the day, you don't trust you.

Yeah. And I want you to reinvest in you that's exactly right let's stay there for a second antonia you called and asked us do we have a future you know the answer but you john's right you don't trust your answer so you called these two yahoos to see what our take was but your answer is what do you have a future with this dude yes or no i don't think so no but see it's the i don't think so john's on something you don't trust your own judgment to kick this guy to the curb you're worthy of being trusted dude you're an awesome mom you're a great employee you're a good friend you're worthy of being trusted thank you is that fair and i'm not just pulling smoke at you i've hey trust me you've listened to this show if you if you were out out to lunch we would tell you john i here's i'm asking

a question on behalf of my friend okay just because we make a bad decision and and we kind of take good judgment out of the equation for someone in a relationship doesn't mean that we have bad judgment the rest of our life true or false false yeah in in fact uh but is that what's going on here she knows it wasn't a good decision maybe she's made some poor relationship decision now all of a sudden she goes i just don't make good decisions but that's not true well i think it's easy to and tell me if i'm wrong antonia it's easy to feel like you're a single mom someone's told you you've got these defects i'm the only one that's ever going to love you I'm the only one that's paying your rent with my money it's easy to make that those that voice into your own voice and you start telling yourself

like for manipulation that's right and then somebody walks along and they're willing to give you half of themselves right I'll tell you I love you I'll tell you you're pretty I'll help pay the bills and you start to think that's all yeah and i love you i'll tell you you're pretty i'll help pay the bills and you start to think that's all yeah and then yeah and want credit for it you're getting me for a discount exactly and you are you start thinking well this is all that i'm ever gonna get yeah this is all this is gonna be hundred percent and when this is especially real in couples that experience infidelity people often think that that that finding out that the person you're married to or you love cheated on you is the most devastating part. That is devastating.

But the most devastating long-term thing, I think, is you lose trust in yourself. I can't believe I missed that. I can't believe that I'm worth this little. I didn't even know what a loser I was. You lose trust in yourself, and it's hard to do anything. It's hard to get a job. It's hard to stand up to your kids. It's hard to do anything in your community because you feel so small.

And so I want you to hear Ken and I telling you, stand up, man. You're worth too much. You got too much value. And somebody's going to recognize you for who you are. and i also don't want to blow smoke at you you probably need to go talk to somebody you probably need to get a group of women in your life where you can practice standing up on your own two feet right now the greatest gift you can give somebody in the future um is you working really really hard on you in this season. Yeah, and that's another thing, too.

I know it's like he weaponized because I'm a victim of molestation and things like that. So he uses that, and you know that I suffer from anxiety. Done. Hey, hey, anybody who weaponizes that sort of pain, done. Done. He's manipulating you. You know what? James would never allow it, but if we had time, I'd call the guy up

for you right now, break up with him for you. I would dump him for you. It's not the kind of show we do. John is probably not healthy, but that's what I would like to do. This dude is a loser, and you know what we do with losers? We fire him. We get rid of him. You're out.

You're done. No longer does he get to play in your world. You are worth so much more. Anthony, thank you. We believe in you. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You've joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney,

and in the lobby of the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney. And in the lobby of the Ramsey World headquarters on the debt-free stage is Wesley and Brett. Welcome. Thank you. You guys ready to do a debt-free scream, I assume? Yes, we are. Oh, that's so fun. Okay, let's get the details. Let's get the story. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off $61,611.

Not that we're counting every dollar. I'm going to round it up to $62,000 for my feeble brain. And how long did it take? 14 months. 14 months. Whoa, y'all are cooking. Wow. Yeah.

And what was your range of income during this time? Started at $142,000 and ended at $160,000. Oh, tell me about that. What did we do to get it up to $160,000? Just normal pay increases and just working some overtime. Okay, great. What do you guys do for a living? I am a registered nurse.

Oh, good. I'm an aerospace technician. In other words, I'm a genius. I can't even spell those two words together. That's impressive. All right, great. So, okay, 14 months ago, take us back. What was the genesis for this journey where you guys really got after it? Yeah, it started a little further back than that for me. It started back in like August of 2015. I realized that I was incredibly broke, like $8 broke. And about 500 of that wasn't mine. And so I needed to do something. And I turned to mom and

she was like, hey, remember that Dave Ramsey guy I told you about? And I was like, no. She's like, well, maybe you should listen to it. So I listened to the total money makeover and realized that I needed to change and do something different. And then we met about four and a half years ago. And that was kind of my start. I started on my own as well. I just found the total money makeover in the library and just decided to pick it up. Read through the book, started trying to implement it, and I was in my former marriage. I found out that you need a partner that's going to be willing to go through the process with you. So really, I used some of the the the things i used the budget just basic budget

but then couldn't really go through with you were all in is what you're saying and then you guys meet and so i'm just curious you guys both knew about dave and and on some level we're going after it uh at what point in the dating relationship do we realize, hey, we both are aware of this concept, and then how did that bring you guys together? The first date? Oh, wow. Yeah. Gross. Gross.

Who brought it up first? That'd be me. That would be me. I basically said, you're either, like, you have to do this with me, or we're not doing this. I like this. Did you also happen to mention, hey, and I know you're an aerospace engineer, but quit hanging out in libraries. Did you mention that, too? he likes the library that's fair good for you man good for you i do too so yeah and we got married and um we've been married just over a

year and a half and tackled it right when we combined everything this was your newlywed project this is a newlywed project this was date one of dating life. And then we got married. We do me a huge favor. How did the conversation go that way? Because I can just imagine like you're beautiful. And he's like, man, I can't believe I got a date with her. And you like order the appetizer. Hopefully it was the most expensive one. And then you lean over and you say um if you want this this comes with Dave Ramsey and like how did that happen I think I was like how do you feel

about debt and he's like well I have some but I don't really like it and I was like okay I was like do you want to get out of it and he was like yeah I'm like okay we can we can continue wow okay we just yeah it was basically like are you in or not and it worked from there wow so let me ask you what was the debt comprised of it was um some family loans student loans credit card i think that was the end of yours so how much did you each clean up uh before you got married um i cleaned up about 50 in about five years before we got married. Okay. The 62,000-ish was mostly mine.

Oh, okay. So you still said yes. Oh, wow. Wow. Hey, well played, Wesley. Lead with that next time. Yeah. But we also cash flowed a wedding right before that.

We cash flowed that. And we also cash flowed some medical bills, about $12,000 worth of medical in the middle of all of this. Wow. So it was quite the journey. It was, we had to dig deep. So what does it take? People are listening in right now. What would you all say to those folks that are wondering, can it be done? And if so, and I know you believe the answer is yes. So what's the key? I think, one, having a partner is huge. Having somebody to do it with you makes a huge difference. That really was kind of the ticket to get it done so quickly.

I was like, and the budget for sure. The budget is life-changing. Who were your big cheerleaders? Parents, for sure. Those people over there. Parents, his parents, who aren't here with us today, like in the studio, but parents for sure were huge. We had a lot of questions about like,

why, why don't you have a credit card? It's fine. Oh, those are from the friends. Those are from friends. A lot of people had questions. And what was the key to kind of drowning those voices out? Trusting it, I guess. Trusting the plan.

Trusting the process. Yeah. What is it like being an aerospace engineer rolling up to work in a used corolla like because because your co-workers kind of have a sense of what you make and they know you're married to a medical professional and they look at you like what are you doing dude uh you know i have uh yeah you see a lot of really nice cars out in the parking lot and it's not a corolla it's a it's a an escape so it's not not the flashiest vehicle but yeah just just knowing that later on if we want to get those flashier vehicles we can go ahead and do that i'll be honest with you i like the corolla more than the escape i wouldn't be i wouldn't be acting like that escapes better than a corolla i'm

flexing over there he'sollas are awesome, man. Like, I don't know, man. No, we're just giving you a hard time. That's really fun. So now what is it like on the other side of this? You guys haven't been married that long, and you've got this debt behind you. This is a big victory. You're standing on this stage today.

It took a lot to get here. What does it feel like? It feels really good.'s it's weird seeing money in our account and it's not going out of the door as soon as it comes in there's like a there's a comma in the account oh i like that we didn't see commas for a long time so and so how has it changed your vision as a couple because when you start this journey we're now like laser focused we're in like laser focused. We're in a tunnel, gazelle intense.

Now here you are on the debt-free stage about ready to do your scream. How has it changed your vision as a couple? What are you guys dreaming about, talking about? I feel like we just know that we can do kind of whatever. I'm the spreadsheet nerd. So I have spreadsheets that show us our potential trajectory and where we're going and what our lives might look like

in the future. And we can just, we can do what we want. I love it. Well, and you got, when you start talking about trajectory, you have a aerospace engineer for a husband. I mean, now he knows everything about trajectory. That would intimidate me. I love that you use that word. Okay. Who do you got with you today to join you on the stage for the screen brooke brooke and tell us about brooke brooke is 12 uh-huh and yeah she did she walk through this journey enough to where she knows what happened and how big of a deal this is very much so we've been talking about money and trying to teach her better than we maybe try to get her to listen better than we did brooke listen listen listen to him i love love it. Good stuff. Well, hey, we've got a couple of things we want to give you right here on the desk. We're going

to give you a copy of Dave's Total Money Makeover for you to give to someone else. And you get to be a part of that legacy. And then you're on your way to being Baby Steps Millionaires. That's Dave's latest book. So we're going to give those to you as well as just a memento to say, hey, we're so proud of you. let's do this you guys ready for your scream yeah we're ready and brooke's ready too i mean like really give it some volume here brooke are we ready okay here we go we got wesley brett and brooke from the denver colorado area here to do their debt-free screen they're paid off a hundred uh excuse me sixty two thousand dollars i rounded up in 14 months making 142000 all the way up to $160,000.

Wesley, Brett, Brooke, it's time. Let's hear your debt-free scream. All right, ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! There we go. Wow. We got up there on the octave.

That's pretty good. Dude, Brooke brought it. She brought it. It's always fun, isn't it, John, to see a family stare into a completely different future. It's awesome. No weight of debt. Dreams galore. Spreadsheets that support the dreams.

That's why we do what we do. Big thanks to them for sharing their story with us. All right. Don't move. We've got to pay some bills, but we're coming right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

Dr. John Deloney is my colleague, and he joins me in studio this hour. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Jackson, Mississippi, where Chris is on the line. Chris, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing? We're having a blast. How can we help? Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Long-time listener. I went to FPU in 2005. Awesome. I'm in baby step four, so the process works, and thank you so much. Way to go, man. The reason I called is because I was in the United States Air Force. I retired after 22 years and I've been in a job that was comparable to what I used to do when I was a younger, younger troop, younger airman.

And I kind of feel like I've been in the same place for about five years and I feel like, man, what's next? And I'm kind of lost. I've listened to both of your books and man, I've listened to Total Money Makeover like 50 times in the car, just trying to grind through to get the baby step forward. But I'm still like at a loss about what's next. What's the timeframe by which you need or want to make a decision? I have no time frame. I can make a decision now or when I'm 65. I'm 45 years old right now. Okay. So you can walk from the military at any time. You're not locked in for a certain amount of time. I retired from the military after 22 years. Oh, I missed that. I apologize. Okay. So are you doing anything right now?

What are you doing for an occupation? I am a test technician. Yes. Okay. And how much is that related to the type of work you did in the military? It's fairly similar. However, if you think of it like this, you know, when you stay in for 22 years, you typically retire around to be about an E7, so a senior enlisted leader. This job that I took is kind of bringing me back to being more like an E4, more like a senior airman. It was a nice little break at first, but I kind of missed the leadership part of it. I missed leading my guys. I missed that. So that's what we've got to pay attention to is when someone presents themselves as,

I don't know what's next. Let me tell you what I've experienced, Chris, and you can tell me if I'm wrong in your case. What that usually means is I've got an idea or two or maybe more, but I don't know how to make that transition. I don't know how to get there. I'm interested in these mountains. I'm not quite sure how to climb them. Is that what's really going on with you? I think so. What is it? All right. Then why don't you just tell me, not worry about how it sounds. What is it that you want to

do more specific than what you just shared, which is I want to be leading people. You love leading a team of people. So specifically, what are you wondering about that you're not quite sure how to get to? I think I have this roadblock in my head about not having a bachelor's degree. I think that that's my biggest block that I have. All right, let's play this out. All right, let's just assume you don't need a bachelor's degree because I'm here to tell you you don't. What would you be doing tomorrow if you just snapped your fingers? Who would you be leading? what would you be doing tomorrow if you just snapped your fingers who would you be leading where would you be leading i don't know people that wanted to be there that's for sure right um you get my point here you're not it's not industry specific no it's really experience specific you have

an incredible resume where you've led men and women, true or false? True. You're really good at leading men and women, true or false? Medium. Nah, that's a bunch of garbage. If I interviewed everybody that was ever under you, would they say that you're a solid, good leader? You'd get a mixed bag. All right. Okay. Did you learn something? Did you learn something from those times where you know, and I appreciate your humility and

honesty, have you learned from those leadership mistakes? I have. Okay. So you can come in and lead a team of people right now, true or false? I could. All right. So that's the mindset. So really we start looking at, okay, is there an industry that I'm more interested in

than others, but I'm looking for management leadership positions in Jackson, Mississippi, just to start. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes. Like, let's just say, all right, let's just see what's out there. But this idea that I've got to have a degree is, is based on a cultural trend that's been going on now for 60, 70 years where, well, it's kind of the way of weeding out the losers. But those times have changed. We're in a job economy right now where there are organizations near you that are looking for somebody that has the experience and the skill of leading people. They can train you to the nuances of the role. Do you believe that? I do. That's really kind of you to say.

And Chris, if you walk into a business in Jackson, Mississippi, and they look at you and say, man, I appreciate 22 years of service, but you got to have that bachelor's degree. You don't want to work there, man. That's right. You don't want to work there. and if you were going to tell us hey i want to go be i want to go to be a nurse and i want to go be a nurse practitioner i want to go to med school or something then we would tell you to go to college man but what you're telling us is you want to lead and you want to get back into some management potential and lead a group of people to success

and you don't even care what the mission is that is. That's how focused you are at being a leader. At some point, Chris, you got to stop being Chris's own worst enemy, man. I think you are the person who believes in you the least among the three of us right now. Is that fair? You don't know me, John. No, and hey, let me tell you this. The number of people, and I bet Ken's got similar,

of my former students, my friends who were in the military who got out and immediately jumped into, quote-unquote, their dream job or into med school or into law school, you did a very wise thing. You got out of the military, and you just went and got a job. You got your feet settled back. You learned how this wacky culture, like you got

to re-enter humanity in a different way and now you're ready for what comes next. So you didn't waste five years, man. You did a really wise, smart thing. Okay? Quit beating Chris up and go get something good. Thank you, sir. I gotta thank Dave for that because Toll Money Makeover and the drive to work every single day has helped out quite a bit.

Listen, those are cool, but me and Dave and Kent, we just run our mouth on the radio, dude. And we type. You're the one who's been putting the work, driving back and forth, from back and forth to back and forth. You're the hero on this deal. Okay. Chris, I want to leave you with one thing. I'm going to give you my get clear career assessment that I think is a wonderful tool for you to take. 20 minutes or less is going to give you some real defined ideas around the work you love and the results that matter to you. But I'm just curious, when you're leading, what is the result that most fires you up? At the end of the day, you go, you know what? This result was obvious, and that's what gives me great joy.

How would you articulate that? I think the best way I can explain it is when I've had some difficult troops that I really try to get through to, and I try to pour my heart and soul into them, and 10 years later they say, hey, I really appreciate what you tried to do for me, and I wish I would have listened to you more. That means a lot to me. I don't know if that's exactly what you're asking me. No, it's exactly what I was asking for, because what you just revealed are the people you most enjoy leading.

There's your clue. Where are the people, and when you call them difficult troops, off the air when you're not under pressure, one homework assignment. I want you to write down what you now know as you look back on your time with those difficult troops, as you put it. What were their pain points? What was in their past? What were some threads that you can now look back and go, they all kind of shared this or these were commonalities. Where are those people in jackson mississippi who's serving them that is where we want to get you to and dude i'm telling you right now this is probably not in in your scope but right when you said that i thought you would make

an incredible high school teacher or incredible coach an incredible guidance counselor an incredible somebody that will is not afraid to get in the messiness of other people's lives and walk with them from this messy moment to the light at the end of the tunnel, man. And that opportunity is everywhere. What are some nonprofit or even government mentoring programs? Look, listen, there are some young men out there who need to come into contact with you. Am I right? I would hope so.

You know so, Chris. Yes, stop saying that. What is going on? Chris, you've got a track record of breaking through with what you called problem or soldiers with difficulties. They look back and say, what you said made sense. Chris, you've got so much to offer. Go find those people who need that mentor, that coach, that guide. Chris, you've got so much to offer. Go find those people who need that mentor, that coach, that guide. Chris, you've got

so much to offer. Thank you for calling. Thank you, sir, for your service. You're a great American. John Deloney, great hour. Always fun to be with you. James, the crew, thank you guys so very much. To you, America, this is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips

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