The Ramsey Show - App - I Feel Like I’ll Never Get Out of Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony discuss: What to do when you feel like you'll never get done with baby step 2, Owing money to family, Why married couples should combine bank accounts, Planning for a lower income job in the future.     Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am Ramsey at Personality. Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. And it's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225. So talk about your marriage, your money, your life, your relationships, anything and everything. Just give us a call. Up first is Doug from Boise.

Hey, Doug. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call today. How are you? We're doing well. Thanks so much. How can we help? So I think I kind of have a bit of an issue on baby step two. I feel like I'm just on a like a debt treadmill where the process is just never ending. And it seems like no

matter what I do to get out of it, I always kind of just slump right back into it. And I think it might be something psychological that I just can't quite figure out. And I was curious to see if you'd be able to help me with that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So give me a little bit of background, like how much debt, how much did you have left? What's been your journey? What's caused you to go back in? I mean, it's always just a really small amount of credit card debt. I don't have any student loans. I don't have any car payments or anything like that. And every once in a while, I'll find myself getting into a hole of about $3,000 to $4,000 in credit cards. And I sit there and tell myself, you've got to be kidding me.

I can't keep doing this. You know, if I want to make it through this and make it through the baby steps, I think this is kind of just where I'm having my issue. What's causing you to swipe the credit cards? Is it emergencies that happen? Is it impulse purchases? What's the thing that's driving that three to four thousand in credit card debt constantly? I think it might be impulses and things that I tell myself could be emergencies that aren't emergencies. If I go out and I'm doing something and buying something that I shouldn't, we're saying, hey, there's these new shoes.

They're really cool. I need those. So I just think it's a lot of impulses and a lot of things like that that's causing that. So I want you to, would you be willing to try something new? Of course. Okay. Two things I want you to, would you be willing to try something new? Of course. Okay. Two things I want you to try new. One, I want you to look at this

not as you're a loser and a failure and an idiot, but I want you to look at this as an environmental issue. Okay? Is that cool? Yeah. Because you're in a system now that you've created for yourself. You've just created a loop for yourself where you do this thing,

and then you feel like crap about it, and then you white-knuckle your way through it for a minute, and then you feel a little bit better, and then you go do it again, and the whole loop starts over again, right? You're just like on one of these kids' train tracks. So let's stop beating up on Doug, number one. Number two, change your environment. Get rid of all of your cards.

Cancel Amazon Prime. Make it almost freaking impossible for you to do this. So for me, I am a raging sugar addict, comically so. My friends make fun of me. It's ridiculous. My kids make fun of me. It's ridiculous. My kids make fun of me. It's like gummy. It's gross stuff.

It's not even good. It's not even like a Snickers. It's like a sour patch kid. Yeah, it's just gross. It's like a main line. Yes, yes. I may have snorted sugar before. Oh, my gosh.

So, listen. I have to have a home that doesn't have any of that in it. And my wife, like, when I'm out of town, my wife and kids, they have like, they go get ice cream and it's like, it's an enjoyable time for them. I had to create an environment where I don't even have access to it, which then gave me time to let that addiction simmer and stop. And then I can reenter the world. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. And what I would tell you is, until you're ready to change the environment, you're not ready to stop spending and to truly get out of debt. And those are the two, like those first two things, Doug, like what John was saying is spot on. And then even when you're out of it and you're kind of in a better habit of, okay, I'm not going into debt for this stuff because I don't even have the ability to. I have no credit cards. I'm not being myself up.

But then go into the practice because even when you become healthier with money, I think still asking the question, why am I wanting to spend this money? That's right. What is it? Is it because it's going to make me feel good in the moment because I'm sad or I'm depressed or I'm discouraged or I'm bored or is it because I feel bad about myself and this thing's going to make me feel better because I'll get compliments from it like like find that root too because again buying stuff is is not the issue it's why you're doing it it's kind of that underneath Doug is what John's kind of getting out as well so and I I have found working with at people who struggle with addiction you i i let

me just talk about myself i can't make that change in that environment yes i can't be surrounded by bags of marshmallows and and gummy candies at as i'm shoveling them in going i wonder why i'm doing that yeah i need to have a clear slate so then when i feel the impulse i can then stop and say what am i hiding from here what is my body trying to protect me from yeah and that's the same with alcohol and pornography all the things right spending here I love that clear the deck and then begin to feel your body begin to ask why am I leaning into this why am I trying to cover something up what is it I'm trying to cover up yeah and and just the in the spending in general in life in our country today is so normal.

You know, consumerism is like at an all-time high. And so what are the things, even if you're someone listening and you're not Doug and you're like, oh, I'm not going deep in credit card debt,

there are still things that I even put in place as a natural spender. I know myself. And even on Baby Step 7, even though we may even have it in the budget, I still feel convicted at times

of like, why am I really doing it? Like, why am I spending this? And so I unsubscribe from emails all the time. I'll go back through because sugar is your thing, clothes are mine. I love shopping. It's just my thing. But I'll go through and I'm like, okay, I'm going to unsubscribe from all these emails because every time there's a sale, anytime there's anything, it pops up in my Gmail account. And I'm like, oh my gosh, there it is. I never would have known that existed on Instagram. I unfollow people, not because they're terrible and evil, but for me, I'm like oh my gosh there it is i never would have known that existed on instagram i i unfollow people not because they're terrible and evil but for me i'm like everything that she posts i want and i'm like you know what just get just just just click away

and then i never save passwords i never try to save my debit card information website me too i have to re-log in start from scratch every time you're like i gotta go find the car i got in it and it gives this friction in our purchasing as well, which I think is really, I think it's huge. Again, whether you're like Doug and you're like, oh my gosh, I just seem to keep going into it. But even if you're not, I think it's just a good practice to slow down and ask the questions. Okay, why am I needing this? Why do I feel like I want to buy it? And you touched on something important.

The companies don't make things convenient because they're your friend they make it convenient because you're more likely just to stumble in and hit buy now buy now buy now

so again I'm the same as you I have to set the 4th of July thing came through in this like the 24 hour flash sale and I was with some

a buddy in the middle of nowhere and he's like oh I gotta get online it was so annoying having to re-log in and learn a new thing and punch it but i have to set those breaks for myself otherwise i'm just buying this bag and buying this thing and i need this new whatever and it's yeah it just gets out

of control for me yeah it's are you more natural saver or spender oh my gosh i spender oh why did i even why did i ask that that was a answer. Direct deposit actually helped me because I would go to the bank and cash my check, and it would never make it home. So actually, by my company sending my check directly to the bank, they take me out of the equation. It actually helps me out. Oh, so good. So good.

I love spending. Absolutely. Again, free call anywhere in the country. 888-825-5225 here to talk about your life and your money this is the ramsey show People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years.

See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. welcome back to the ramsey show i am rachel cruz hosting today with dr john deloney all right justin is up next in denver hey justin welcome to the show hi rachel hi john uh read both of your books loved Loved them. Oh, thanks so much. Well, thanks for calling. Yep. How can we help? My wife and I are in baby step two. We paid off $40,000 in the last five months.

Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. We're celebrating our four-year anniversary next week. And just this morning, my wife told me that her father had told us that he was forgiving the $7,000 balance of a $10,000 family loan that they loaned us prior to our marriage. That's generous. Yeah, they live close by and they come over often. And I fear that in the future, once they forgive this debt, if I continue on, I just fear facing them. Do you fear facing them like ego-wise or is this loan forgiveness come with strings, federal government-like?

No. My wife says and swears up and down that they are not like that, and I believe her. Okay. And she's on board with me. She hates owing anybody any money. This is our last debt before we move on to baby step three. And, and I, I just can't bring myself to feel right about the forgiveness. Why not? Well,

the original family loan was for her to pay for a lawyer fees. Her ex-husband and her daughter per the divorce agreement or whatever, were supposed to stay in the same County as her husband, um, for a visitation or whatever. And she wanted to move in with me prior to us getting married. And, um, that created, um, a family law court case, um, which she needed a lawyer for. So from my perspective, I saw her parents as taking a bet on me

when her biological father would not do that. They bet on our relationship. It's been a very rocky marriage just because of the ends of the spectrum that both of us fall on. She's a mental health counselor. I'm retired Army. So they're betting on our marriage from my point of view.

And it just pains me to have this debt forgiven. Let me reframe this. I don't think anybody's betting on anybody. Sounds like a mom and dad who love their daughter. And it sounds like a mom and dad who love their daughter and trust you.

Nobody's gambling on anything here. And so, and your marriage, by the way, isn't been Rocky because you're in the army and she's a mental health counselor. It's because it's just been Rocky makes him different choices. You know what I mean? Like don't, don't over dramatize this. It sounds a lot like you don't like the ego of this. It's, I mean, this is about your ego. That's what it sounds like. And if I'm you, I would walk over to his house or drive over there and I'd knock on his door and I'd stick my hand out and shake his hand, if not hug him and say, thank you. And then when you are on more secure financial footing and you feel compelled to pay the 7,000 bucks back and you're in a position to

do so, then go do it at that point and let some space happen between there. Or if suddenly he's holding this over your head and weaponizing it, then go take out a loan at a credit union and give him his money back. But this sounds a lot like ego, man. And this isn't the moment for ego. This is a moment to say, thank i'm grateful but you've created a conflict like they're betting on this and i i'm dude just say thank you man and then be about making your marriage stronger yeah and justin do you is there patterns with your relationship with them that's causing you to to get here because at this point i feel like you said that it's been a pretty good relationship with them and you haven't seen anything but have you deep down is there something that you're like oh god they've made that comment

that comment that comment that's helped you write this story or is it just it just feels so uncomfortable I mean you just kind of can't believe oh my gosh that this debt he's going to just forgive it and then you kind of start rattling around in your in your head with it uh I'm not really sure what's going on with that I I know that, you know, over the last nine, 10 months now, I've, I've had a lot of shame in my life. Um, um, you know, I've, I've, I quit drinking 10 months ago and, uh, um, so there's a lot of shame. I destroyed some relationships and, uh, you know, the worst one was, uh, trust with my wife and I'm trying to rebuild those relationships and my life, it seems like my

life is closing in on me. I'm getting the help that I need. Um, let me tell you something that's counterintuitive to the space you're in. The space you're in, especially with your training is that you are going to grab control. I'm going to quote unquote solve this. I screwed something up, fix it, right? That's the mentality. And there is some truth to that. You've got to do right by your wife.

You've got to repair that relationship. And that comes with doing different things. But globally speaking, grabbing the wheel tighter is not going to stop the spin of this thing. It's releasing that. And what that looks like is going to somebody's house and saying, thank you. The word that nobody likes to use is vulnerability. And that's the only path forward for you.

And vulnerability for a veteran path forward for you. And vulnerability for a veteran is counterintuitive. I'm rolling. You could hurt me right now. And I'm going to go anyway because you're my wife, because you're my in-laws, you're my family now.

And I'm going to trust that you won't hurt me. And I'm going to say thank you. And I'm going to go on to being a good man. Is that fair? Yes. Thank you very much. But listen, brother, I want you to look at this not as, like I told the previous caller,

this isn't some kind of moral failure. This is a set of skills you don't have, and you've got to learn some new skills, and you've got to practice them. Is that cool? Yes. So practice accepting help. Practice saying thank you.

And then practice saying, I'm sorry, how can we make this right? Okay. Is that cool? Yes. Go make your marriage good, man. You're worth that. It's good, Justin. Appreciate you, man.

And that's a lot of courage. It's a bold call, man. Yeah. It's a brave guy. I really appreciate you calling, Justin. But there's a level in all of this, right, in our lives, whether it's within brave guy i really appreciate you calling justin but and it's a there's a level in all of this right in our lives whether it's within our marriage within our money uh anything new even accepting a gift right um all of it to your point i'm like when you don't have the practice

and the skills it's it is so uncomfortable and it is so scary but continuing to step into it and continuing to take a step it takes courage a different level of courage than I feel like our world talks about. Well, it's relational courage, which is like if Suzanne fires me, she takes my job from me, right? But my identities with my wife and kids, whatever. If I lose that, then I've got to, that's a long road right i don't know who i am i'm untethered to everything right and so there's something incredibly courageous about leaning into someone that you love and care about who is part of you which is your wife

your husband your spouse your kids and saying i'm sorry thank you how do i do this right like we just don't have we don't have a culture that says, I'm sorry. How do I make this right? We have one that says fix it. And when we fix it, we try to grab control of it. Yes. And sometimes you got to do the opposite of what your, what your training is. Yeah.

Which is so scary. And that's the vulnerable piece when you're not used to that. And it's like, okay, I really am. I'm going to, I'm going to let go of the wheel in a sense. And other people who have spent their whole lives with their hands off the wheel equally courageous you've got to grab the wheel like you've got to take some control here right and and so some people are listening going like okay actually like you got to know you and everybody's situation is different it's it's doing the if you here's the. Look at the pattern of behavior in your life.

Look back and say, is this working? This is year four and my marriage is still a mess. Me getting angry every time this or me going to watch Netflix every time or grabbing another drink every time, that's not working. Let's try something else.

Do the courageous thing that makes your body uncomfortable because that usually is the right thing. Yeah, trying something new. The next hard thing. That's so good. Well, thanks again, Justin, for calling. It's awesome.

This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney. And obviously there's things said on the show that people don't agree with and that are controversial in how you live life. And we kind of talk about common sense. We could sit here and talk about the color of the sky and the leaves, and we would be like, uh-uh. That's not true.

That's your view. That's not true. That's your truth. You guys are liberal garbage. Oh, my gosh. The sky's orange, idiot. So, yeah. So the basis, if you're new to this show i mean honestly like the most foundational

principles it's common sense it's biblical and it's after 30 years of doing that we're like okay here's what works and and in regards to money and then obviously over the past couple years bringing in people like john's talk about uh mental health and other spaces but still applying that same logic of like okay what is you know god's and grandma's ways kind of the tagline of doing life and and that's worked so one of the things that we talk about a lot that we just get or i do i get crap for all the time is about combining your accounts after you're married when you get married you should have one bank account with your spouse and literally the dumbest thing i've ever heard and you just kidding you sound like everyone on social media no i was trying to be i mean i was trying to be all of social media just

it is like i mean i mean again i can talk about it the credit score i can talk about manual underwriting i can talk about all these things but this one it just touches a nerve okay so i didn't know this was a thing until i joined this team like right so when i came to hang out here and i think it was me and you were hanging out people will create other humans together and they will not share an account yeah your genetics are shared by a little child we will make a person together but i'm not letting you have my not my fun money like we literally have created somebody or something that could destroy humanity. But you are not touching my paycheck. That's mine.

Oh, man. But the advice is out there. So I saw this on, well, I shouldn't say I saw it on TikTok, but I don't have TikTok, but someone shared it. James Child is a huge TikTok fan. That's the thing. That's what it is. Are we going to throw James into the bus?

James, the producer, loves TikTok. No. Okay. So this is Kevin O'Leary, Shark Tank. And here's the thing. That's what Avery says. Are we going to throw James in the bus? James, the producer, loves TikTok. No. Okay, so this is Kevin O'Leary, Shark Tank. And here's his advice. I tell women today, do not merge your account with your husband's, ever, in your whole life. He will respect you for having your own money. Let him have his. And set up a third account where you merge your dollars together.

There's no reason you have to give up your financial identity when you marry. Wow. No reason to give up your financial identity. I don't even have... Okay, here's the thing. I don't even know what to say to that. I have so many places I want to start. Okay.

Number one, let's just do this. Real life, Rachel. We were out to dinner with two couples that we know and both women work and so that right they're a dual income family and both of them both of the guys what well sorry one of the girls she pulled back from work right she's like i'm gonna i'm pulling back uh so she's she's home with the kids and they have school age kids and she's just home and he's kind of of like, oh, and she says, I feel like I'm missing something for the contributing to the household, because we hear that a lot. All the time.

Contributing to the household, and he's kind of giving her a hard time, because he's like, you have a great brain. You could use the brain and make money, this whole thing. And so there is this position when you are married, and a wife and a husband, and you're there, and you're talking about money, lots of different perspectives, right? That you can go into. But when it comes to just sharing the account,

like just the logistic, like we're just going to go baseline. That all of your money goes into one account. Right. Why would you not? Except for if there's an, if there's an abusive situation.

If there's a divorce on the horizon and you know, like, yeah. Or you've got to create a pocket for safety, right? Yes. yes um but for majority of couples out there functioning just in marriage and they're just living their lives so what i take from that call is this i want to get married to somebody i want to i want to join lives together but i want to stay completely and totally autonomous and still be quote unquote just me. And then I'm going to be me, you be you

and then we'll do this together thing on the side. Or maybe we'll do it in the middle but I'll be me on the side and you be you on the side. And so I'm going to keep my loan identity here. You keep your loan identity here. And what that is called is a corporation. That's a business arrangement. I'm going to go to my house, you go to your house, you go to your side of the bed and then we'll do this job together. yep and what that is called is a corporation that's a business arrangement yes i'm gonna go

to my house you go to your house you go to your side of the bed and then we'll do this job together and that's not marriage no and and it's more i mean back to the other call we had on the last segment there's a vulnerability to say i'm gonna give everything to you yes and we're gonna go in this marriage together and we are gonna be one in every aspect and so let me push back on this again. Yeah. Clearly a super successful financial person. I have never heard a man say, you know what?

I would really respect my wife if she were less connected with me and more independent. You don't hear that kind of language. You hear the opposite. I feel completely and totally alone in a bed I share with my partner. I feel completely and totally alone at dinner with my wife and kids or my husband and kids

because we are not unified in what we're doing in our lives. Like the connection point of where we are as a state relationally should say something. Exactly. That what we're doing as a world with merit is not working.

Yeah. So like, so let's just do the opposite of what the world's doing. And then maybe, AKA, unite. But no, and so I like, oh yeah. So I'm trying to find them real quick. But all the comments, just all the comments, like doesn't work if someone has bad spending habits. I totally disagree, Rachel.

This is unbelievable advice. Told you. Told you. Told you. Oh my gosh. I don't agree. We had joint accounts at first and then he just kept spending and spending. Then my kids and I couldn't eat.

Didn't have, like basically didn't have, didn't have money for food. So we separated. So again, there are issues that people have, but money is not the reason. Oh, someone's like, oh, I splurged and got a prenup. So now everything is separate. This feels much better for me in our marriage. We can go on and on and on. But, but like there, yeah, there's just this, this idea that if there are issues in the marriage, right, he is spending everything and won't go to

therapy or, um Or you feel like you have a level of your identity still that it just feels safer over here if I just keep this stuff and you go there, right? All of that, that's not a money issue. Those are marriage issues. And it's coming out as a money issue that we won't share accounts. But it's indicating something deeper of what's going on in the marriage. Absolutely. And money becomes the proxy. And so if I'm talking to a couple who's considering getting married and they won't share accounts, the issue is less about the function of a checking account. Right.

It's more, this will never work if you go in with a wall built and he goes in with a wall built and you try to build a community together it will not work you have to decide it's the vulnerability i'm gonna open up the drawbridge i'm gonna open up the gates here and we're gonna get both leave and we're gonna go create something new together and god almighty dude the lowest common i mean the simplest thing is to throw all your money in the same account. Right. And if you can't figure that out, think long and hard about getting married. If you are married to somebody who is prohibiting you and your children from eating, that is abuse. Yeah.

Right? Go get help. Make a phone call. That's not about sharing a checking account together. That's about abuse. Yes. Right? That is a totally different proposition.

Because there are situations like that. Absolutely. That we're not just like blindly, regardless of abuse. Yes. Right? That is a totally different proposition. Because there are situations like that. Absolutely. That we're not just like blindly, regardless of anything. No. There's major dysfunction in the household and you have to protect yourself for a reason. Again, huge marriage issue there, but there's ways to protect it, yes, with your money. Because on the flip side, the positive of when you join your accounts together as a couple that we have found is that when you do something together,

like money, that's something that is just hard in life and figuring out money or walking the baby steps, getting out of debt, like this is not easy stuff. You really have to be intentional and work at it.

But when you have a spouse next to you and you guys lock arms and you see yourselves as a team and you say, we're in this together. Not only do I think that you achieve your financial goals so much faster when it's that mentality, like we are in this together. Not only do I think that you achieve your financial goals so much faster when it's that mentality like we are in this together

and we're running the same race, but something happens. There's a level of just excitement and sacrifice. All of that you do together. Think about the basketball player that says, I don't care about y'all. I'm going to get my 30 points a game. That team's not going to win.

It's when they all say, we're in this together. We're going to all give. I'm going to get my 30 points a game. That team's not going to win. Yep. Right? It's when they all say, we're in this together. We're going to all give. We're going to all pass. We're going to all shoot the ball. We're going to all play defense so that we all win. Yes.

Right? In the same way it works in marriage. And in a very kind of shallow way too, the connection point is there because you end up talking about everything. You have to talk about everything. You have to talk about it. So you're talking,

you're communicating, which is a point of connection. So that's good. This is to talk about it. So you're talking, you're communicating, which is a point of connection. So that's good. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, up next is Shannon from Detroit. Hey, Shannon, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help?

So I am in analysis paralysis with some special circumstances. During college, I kind of had what I refer to as a mental breakdown because I don't know what else to call it. But my anxiety and depression got worse. And then COVID happened and I started getting agoraphobia. So luckily, I've been able to talk to some professionals that have helped me, and I'm actually now able to have a part-time job so I can start making some money. Way to go. So you're able to leave home?

Yes, now I am. Way to go. Thank you. Yeah, I'm able to get a service dog in September, so that's really going to help me too. Hey, that's a hard one. I know I keep interrupting you. I'm able to get a service dog in September, so that's really going to help me too. Hey, that's a hard one. I know I keep interrupting you. I'm sorry, but that's a hard one. I want to celebrate that with you.

Is that cool? Thank you, yes. That's tough, man, especially on the back end of COVID, getting out. And, yeah, we weaponized each other during that season, and so good for you. I'm proud of you. Thank you so much. Sorry for interrupting you. Go ahead.

Go ahead. No, you're good. So I have, since getting the service dog, I have a huge unexpected cost. And since I'm only able to work part-time for now, I don't know how to come up with that cost. My parents got like a huge bonus this past year. so they offered to pay for it in cash and then just had me pay it later but I didn't know like I don't know what to do first I know I have the thousand dollar emergency fund but do I pay them back to get my debt cleared because I don't have I won't have any student debt or do I continue saving to rent somewhere or have a house? I don't know what to start with. Yeah. Okay. So is the big expense that you said at the beginning of this, the dog, the service dog, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So how much is that going to be?

It's going to be $16,200. $16,000. Okay. What debt do you have right now, Shannon? I have just $1,500 left from my last class this fall, but I have enough cash to pay for that ahead of time. Okay, so there's no credit cards or car loans or anything? No, I actually was introduced to you guys before I even started high school, so I tried to work before then, and then my parents had saved up money for me. That's awesome. How old are you, Shannon? 22.

22. Okay, very cool. Are you at home right now, living at home? Yes. Okay. And so you're looking to move out, kind of start your life and be an adult, right? That you're just, yeah, you're ready to leave the nest, which is awesome. So do you have any money saved?

After I graduate, I get money that my parents had set aside for me. So between like working before I got this job and that, I'll have like $10,000 after I graduate. Great. And the service dog is coming in, you said September? Yeah. Is that right? Okay.

So you have about, yeah, three months or so, yeah, to come up with $6,000. How much are you making right now? Right now I'm making 13 50 an hour and i work like 25 hours a week so okay okay so if i were you i would do priority of what's the most important in my life to um be self-sufficient right and this dog to me is number one it's even before moving out um getting this dog in place because that dog is really going to be the thing that I'm, from what I'm hearing you, and Joan, correct me if I'm wrong too,

that's going to help you really be able to work more hours, to be able to live independently and really continue to live life the way you want to as an adult. Is that correct? Yeah, it is. Okay. And with your particular response, your particular phobia, your particular anxiety response, running out and getting your own place and immediately re-isolating yourself may be tough right now.

Does that make sense? Yeah, and that's how it kind of got worse when I was in college because I had a roommate, but college was like two, three hours away from my family who I was really close to. So it felt like I was isolating myself. So I would love to, like Rachel's saying, I'd love you to do this in the right order, which sounds like I'm going to delay moving out from home for six months or seven months, and I'm going to sit down with mom and dad, and we're going to write this down together. So they're on the same page. I'm on the same page. We're all good. And think of it less like

this dog is not like a car, right? They're not buying you a thing. They are participating in your, in really in your, in your health, right? They're helping with the, think of it like a, more of a medical payment than they're buying you a new bicycle or something okay and so um we're going to get get this relationship with this dog and those things are magical by the way i've seen some really remarkable turnarounds with folks i'm going to get really comfortable with this dog and then i'm going to in this season i'm going to start i'm going to spread out my work hours and i'm going to start leaning into that anxious discomfort. Okay?

And your counselor is probably working with you on that. Is that right? Yes, definitely. So we're going to end up short-circuiting that anxiety response. We're going to keep leaning into that, and we're going to have this talk, and we're going to have mom and dad at home. And that sounds like that's a good place. It's not a – they're not a, like a, they're not a part of the problem. Right. And so in six months, nine months, you're going to look up this dog's

going to be fully grown. You're going to be debt free. You can figure out the payment with you and your parents on this thing. Maybe you pay 10 grand of it. They pay the other six or something. They're willing to help you out. Then you've saved up money. Now you're working full time. You've got a full, a full-time partner with this this dog and then you're ready to go get an apartment. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And then, then you can just head right out, right? Yeah. There's no, yeah. The urgency, I don't want you to have to feel right now, Shannon, because there is no urgency. You're, I mean, besides the dog and getting that dog in September, but besides that, all the other stuff. Yeah. I mean, even if you paused and you waited

nine months, if you waited till next summer, even if it was 12 months and you said, hey, next May, my goal is to be on my own, all of that. I think there'd be more harm to the urgency of doing things out of order versus just tapping the brakes and you're good and to continue to heal. But on a kind of a tactical side, Shannon, I would challenge you just on what your job is. I mean, you're making $13.50 an hour. And there's a lot of places that are paying $20, even up to $25, maybe with the skill set that you have. And so I would just, you know, even just in the next week or two, just look, look around and say, okay, is there anything that can just up that? Because even, even getting a $7 an hour raise is going to significantly help you over the course of,

of these months as you're saving up for the dog. And then, um, and again, I don't want to put too much on you, but if you're trying to think, okay, how much money, how can I get money as quickly as possible for this big expense? That's the dog that's going to help me so much in life. Um, I've heard John, so many, so many people doing things from home. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I don't know if there's a job that you can pick up for like two hours in the evenings on your computer and you can make just a little bit more money there. And again, some of this feels like a drop in the bucket

when you're like $16,000. But over time, do the math, map it out, and say, okay, what can I do in the short term that's not going to just damage who I am, but really be able to help in my healing and give me a little bit of the confidence. There'll be a confidence boost, a dignity that you're going to have, Shannon, when you say, wow, I went and did this. I saved up this and all of it.

And the fact that your parents are there willing to help you, I think, is amazing. And if they're able to gift you any of that money toward the dog, you can kind of figure that out. That's awesome, too. But tactically, I would say, yes, your $1,000 emergency fund is really key. But this dog is going to be number one. So saving towards that as soon as possible, I think, is huge. Good for you. Proud of you.

It's awesome, Shannon. So, so great uh man i feel like we did one year line of work seeing what kova did and the shutdown like was did more more stuff spiked right i mean everything that i've seen with like whether it's depression anxiety all of it yeah it seems like there was a time when that we're still feeling the effects right i think we've got a hundred year turnaround and not to be pessimistic, but somebody asked me on an interview a few, a few months ago that I think this was worse than the nine 11 tragedy. And I said,

yes, because after nine 11, we had a common thing we could point at. They were trying to get us. And for this one, what got weaponized was each other. Oh, interesting.

So we've got to reconnect with one another. Yes. That's great. All right. Thanks for listening to this hour of the ramsey show thanks to kelly james ben zach andrew austin everyone in the booth i went down my list that's impressive thank you thank you john thank you for hosting with me you're welcome this is the ramsey show Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.