The Ramsey Show - App - I Have $415,000 in Med School Debt...What Do I Do? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. It is a free call at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. George Campbell Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. We'll be taking your calls about your life and your money. You jump in and we'll talk. Josiah in Tulsa, Oklahoma starts off this hour. Hey, Josiah, what's up? Hey, Dave, good to talk to you. You too, man. So my question is, I am currently a resident physician in family medicine here in Tulsa. I have a total debt of just shy of about $430,415 of that being student loans. But where I sit now, I have one source already of loan repayment coming in through the Army Reserves. That can total amount of $250,000 and it's split up into

increments of $40,000 per year. I'm also looking into an employment option through the state of Oklahoma and through this employer that has $200,000 in loan repayment over a four-year period, so $50,000 per year. So my question is, is currently in baby step two um how would i go about that fitting into the baby steps if someone is the majority will be paying off these loans should i pile up cash in the meantime while i'm going through those phases and set it aside in case anything happens or let's say you get both of these deals do they stack meaning that um you're going to get the whole thing paid off correct Correct, yeah. So it would be double-dipping, as I call it, in a sense.

So they're separate entities. One would be coming from the Army Reserve. The other one would be coming from this program, the statewide program. Yeah, you won't be able to finish the Army Reserve because the total is more than you need. Say that again. $250,000 and $250 $250, you said, right? Yes, correct.

Yeah, and that's $500. You only have $415. So the last two dips from the Army Reserve you won't get to, right? Yeah, so it's pretty much a per-year type of thing. I know. I can opt out or in. Yeah, I'm just saying that you'll opt out. You won't need all the whole $250,000 from the Army Reserve

because it comes over a six-year period of time. Correct. What will end up happening is that you're going to be done with them paying it in about four years. Correct. Okay. All right. Just making sure I got my head on straight.

So you said family practice, right? Correct. What are you going to be making? So at this job, it should be right around about $300 or so. Okay. Let me tell you the things that I normally tell people, and let's figure out how to screw them into your weird situation. Okay. All right.

Normally, somebody calls me up, and let's say they've got $50,000 in student loan debt and maybe they make $100,000 or $150,000, okay? And they say, hey, my job is going to pay this off over three years. Well, I normally would tell them to be debt-free a lot sooner than three years. And so what I'll tell them to do in that case is I want you to put fifty thousand dollars in a bank account to sit there until your job pays off this loan for you over three years that way if the job blows up you can write a check and you're debt free you see what i'm saying so i'm trying to figure out how to use that principle here because i really don't i really do want you to have these two entities pay off your 415 over four years i want that to occur that's an awesome benefit from both of these things serving your country and obviously signing

a a competitive in a competitive landscape signing a contract with a with a medical outfit okay um so i want all that to work for you uh but i also don't want you to sit there and one of these things blow up on you for whatever reason and then you end up three years from now with still 150 000 worth of debt so i i guess probably what i would tell you is let's try to get a hundred thousand bucks in savings before we call you debt free and then we'll ride this four years out and just just as a contingency fund in case something gets sideways i don't know here's a weird example this mop it's not going to happen but i'm just trying to think of bizarre things that have called in here over 30 years let's say you get into this contract with this employer and you get in there and there's an ethics problem

and you got to you have to walk you're going to lose your dadgum license because they're just doing stuff right you gotta walk now you got you just lost 250 000 bucks and you're you're halfway through this contract and so you're still sitting there looking at a hundred thousand dollars worth of student loan debt that's going to take you a lot longer to get through and um so i i think uh having that $100 laying aside as a contingency way to step back into this, George, is going to be a way to kind of call it debt-free. Yeah, because there's some outside forces here that he's relying on to get this debt paid off, which I don't like. But if they're surefire and he can stack up this cash and then he goes, oh, all right, this thing's actually going to work.

They're paying all this debt off for me, and now he's got a pile of cash to continue the baby steps. I like that positioning. As long as you stay in the reserve, I think that's one you can depend on. But I think the rough-and-tumble world out here in the real world is stuff happens and these employment deals blow up. Yeah. And I don't think it will. I think he'll be okay.

But you can't – you have to to where people get themselves in trouble with money is they run out the best case scenario and that's the one they believe and that's the only way it works is if it all works and so you got to run out a scenario where if it doesn't work what's going to that also works see that's the beauty of being debt-free living on a plan living on less than you make. That works in good times, and that works in bad times overall, as an overall principle. It's the only set of overall principles. Borrowing up to your eyeballs works.

If you want to buy a bunch of real estate, nothing down, as long as real estate goes up and all your tenants pay. Ha, ha, ha, ha. You know? It doesn't work, right? And so you've got to have a contingency plan in a worst-case scenario. Then if your plan works in a best-case scenario and a worst-case scenario, you've got a good plan. Yeah. That's good battle planning if we're going to use an Army Reserve.

Yeah, I like that analogy. And he's in a good spot. I mean, this is a huge pile of debt. So if he can get this thing wiped out in a few years he's going to be in a great spot but man that's a big hole to dig out of and it's nice to have that help ouch ouch ouch that hurts so um now let's sidebar because you did this in borrowed future um we discovered there's really about three types of student loan forgiveness that are not private that are government um and one type well there's one type is private it's kind of the type of thing he's of student loan forgiveness that are not private, that are government.

And one type, well, there's one type that's private. It's kind of the type of thing he's getting into. Or if you go into an underserved area, the government will forgive in about three years a large chunk of student loan. The second type of student loan forgiveness, the government will forgive your student loan in the event of death or permanent disability. The third type of student loan forgiveness is a lie. Public? Public student loan forgiveness over 10 years.

You know, it just has not happened. You know, hundreds of thousands of applications, hundreds of them approved. Nightmare. 99% dissatisfaction with that government promise it's pretty high not occurred it's not occurred so don't you don't count you need ID theft protection? Check out these numbers. Every seven seconds, an identity is stolen. And the average time to completely resolve an id theft event is

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With our digital self-study courses, you can rest assured that your teen will know the right way to handle money. No matter what curveballs, life may throw will know the right way to handle money no matter what curveballs life may throw them down the road. Best part, no instructor is needed. Take your teen through the stuff we teach. If they've got a tablet or a computer, they're ready. Text SELFSTUDY to 33789 and learn more about all the different courses that we have available for middle school and for high school.

Text SELFSTUDY to 33789. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Mandy in Arizona. As a Christian, I think God expects his followers to help the needy at whatever point they are in life. Baby Step 7 implies that you recommend giving only after one has paid off all debts and are comfortable. I struggle with not being able to give

while I'm paying off debt. Can you help clarify this for me? I think Mandy's got some bad information. I don't ever remember a part where you said, don't give. Nope. Is that part of the baby steps? Nope. Matter of fact, we say tithe from day one for

a Christian, an evangelical Christian, and a tithe is a baseline for your giving, for those of us that are people of faith. That's a tenth of your income to your local church. And we start there. Now, while you're in baby step two, your family's broke, and you take care of your own household first, or you're worse than an unbeliever, is Scripture. That's what the Bible says.

So you need to get your family out of the ditch. So during that two years, you don't need to be giving away tens of thousands of dollars. Now, if you find somebody hungry and you want to buy a $5 meal, I'm there. Nobody's ever going to be mad at you for that. That's not the point. I'm not going to be mad at you, period. But the thing is, you know, giving all the way through, tithing all the way through from the day you start our program is what we teach. Some other giving, minor giving in Baby Step 2 as the Holy Spirit, you know, leads.

But mainly in Baby Step 2, you need to be getting out of debt. Now, once you've done that and you're on to Baby Steps 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, your giving should increase. That's living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Now, what we're talking about a baby step seven is outrageous generosity i mean over the top stuff that blows your mind money that you where you get to the point that you give away more in a year than you used to make and that's what we're aiming at is this crazy levels of generosity and you know you can get there and i lots of our baby step millionaires have gotten there um you know but you're not not giving right now on baby steps three four or you're on four five and six trying to pay off the house house will be paid off in six months or so and you're not

not giving there right yeah you keep giving all the way through and then once you get to seven we just dial that thing up as much as we want we can get crazy with it and you unpack this masterfully in financial peace university. In the final lesson, Outrageous Generosity, you walk everyone through this process and you get them dreaming. And that's what I love, is you get them dreaming about what could it be like when we have so much money, so much margin left over in our budget, then we can give outrageously. And so you go way beyond the tithe at that point. You can make crazy things happen. You can do wild offerings at your church. You can help your community. You've got tons of stories in there

of ways that people can do this. And that's where things get really fun. So, you know, Mandy, George is right. You got bad information. You didn't have good clarity. If you've been through Financial Peace University, you'll see very quickly we're teaching the tithe

from day one all the way through as a minimum baseline for an evangelical Christian. Off the top before you do anything else. First fruits. And it's not a legalism thing. It's a matter of the instruction from Scripture. And it's a matter of your heart and setting up. You want to build the giving muscle in your spirit.

And then above that, minor giving here or there until you're out of debt and have your emergency fund in place. And then when you break through Baby Step 3 and you start putting 15% of your income away, even though your home is not paid off, you're not in trouble anymore. But when you're in Baby Step 2, you're in trouble. You're a bankruptcy looking for a place to happen, and that's most of America. And so you've got to be very, very focused to protect your own household there. But in no time have we told you to stop giving ever in 30 years of doing this have I ever told people to stop giving. Haven't heard it. And Mandy, if you're out there listening, go check out Lesson 9

at Financial Peace University, Outrageous Generosity. If we have your info, we'll get Kelly to give you a free 12-month subscription to Ramsey Plus, and you can go watch that video. But that's going to really lay it out, and it's very clear. We want you to give the whole way through. We just want you to go wild in Baby Step 7 because you can. There you go. Put you in a different place. Sylvia is with us in Los Angeles.

Hi, Sylvia. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Oh, my God. Hello you go. Put you in a different place. Sylvia is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Sylvia. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Oh, my God. Hello, Mr. Ramsey. I have a question. I did stupid on steroids. We did purchase a car in June. Please don't get mad.

$60,000 and um we gave of that 5,500 was the self-tax and six thousand dollars down and we're looking into like um we try to send it give it back to the dealer they wouldn't take it and we went to carmax and we're looking into losing like another um two thousand dollars and i don't know if it's okay and right now my husband just got on disability again because of his back so we're just on the unsure i feel stupid losing that money but then i see stupid all over around the car when i see those stupid purchase we did. What do we do? What do I do? Yeah.

What's your household income, sweetie? $120. That's good news. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, run it back over at CarMax and give them $2,000 and get out of it. Yes.

Okay. Thank you. Does that feel free? You feel free now? it does it does because i keep back and forth that every time you look at it you can't catch your breath yes i even drive it like oh my god i'll scare it and just stupid just stupid all around yeah you don't want stupid looking at you in the driveway every day that That's going to be a long life. So, yeah, you need to get rid of this.

You need to get rid of this thing. You need to get rid of it quickly while you still can, while the getting is good. Do you guys have another car? Okay. Yes. My husband has a truck. It's paid off. It's worth $20, but, you know, we need two cars.

You know, at L.A., we just need the two cars. And I did have a car. It was reliable. Do you have any money? Yes, we do. How much money do you have? We have $25,000. Okay, good.

Take $10,000 and go buy you a car that's reliable, that you need just to get around with. Then you've got two paid-for cars, and you make $120,000 a year, and then you clean up whatever other debt you've got, and you put your emergency fund back in place, and you're going to be fine. So, George, the question now we have to ask you, Sylvia, what allowed you guys to do this, and what's going to keep you from doing it again? I think we were always going back and forth, back and forth of getting a car.

And in my mind, I thought, like, probably we'll pay it off in a year. You know, that year gap that then i guess when i we went to the store the dealer it was like i don't i don't even know what to say they've i've it was just stupid and i knew it listen i'm not picking on you but i'm not picking on you but here's the trick i've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life my goal is to figure out when I did stupid stuff, why I did that so that I never do it again. That's why I'm asking you this, not to shame you. I'm just saying, you know, you guys need to sit down and talk about it and go, are we really committed to living our life without payments?

What's going to protect us? What's going to be our little personal behavior insurance policy to keep us from doing this again? Yeah. And, Sylvie, I want you to check other places. The market's so hot right now. You can check Carvana. Check out all of Vroom, all these websites, and see if you can get a better deal on this. But Dave's right.

And based on our parameters, you can't have your 50% of things with wheels and motors have your household income tied up in this stuff. So you guys got too much car, but you can get out of this thing pretty quick and never do it again. Yeah. Because you're just over and over and over. I wish I hadn't done it. I wish I hadn't done it. So figure out why you did it and never do it again so that you never have this kind of a feeling in your stomach again.

It's with us. Hey, Lauren, how are you? Oh, I'm good, Dave. How are you? I'm doing good. Where do you live? I live in Louisville, Kentucky. I love Louisville. It's a great town.

Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. All the way down here, a couple of hours, three hours or so to make your debt-free scream happen. How much did you pay off? $15,000. Excellent. And how long did this take you? Two and a half years.

Very good. And your range did this take you? Two and a half years. Very good. And your range of income during that time? $29,000 to $35,000. Cool. What do you do for a living? Well, right now I work at a major automotive company on the assembly line, but I actually quit that this morning, to be honest. This morning?

I quit this morning, yeah, because I didn't want to work there anymore. But I also deliver pizza, and I clean a house, and basically I read Christy Wright's book, Business Boutique, and I'm wanting to focus on my own business. Wow. Big step, girl. Yeah. Throughout that time, though, I worked at just a cashier job at a vitamin supplement shop.

And I also, before I got on the assembly line, I cleaned at the automotive plant. Okay. So you can do anything. Yeah. You'll be able to figure it out, right? Yeah. And so you hated that and you're stuck with it long enough to get out of debt. Basically, yeah.

I'm almost done with your financial coaching master class training. Oh, wow. Yeah. Very good. How old are you? I am 32 years old. Very good. What kind of debt was the $15,000? A little over $7,000 each of my car debt and remaining student loans, and the rest was a credit card. All right. Very good. So what made you decide two and a half years ago that this was a thing? I think it started a little bit before that whenever I was in a job situation that I was really scared to lose my job, and I basically had to, like, grovel to keep my job. I was in a very desperate situation.

And I kind of thought to myself back then, like, I never want this to happen again. But then I bought my house. And then there was unexpected expenses with the house, just like what you talk about. And then at a certain point, and I knew back then I didn't want to be in credit card debt. But I ended up having to put a home renovation thing on a credit card. I'm like, what am I doing? So I reread the total money makeover.

And I'm like, that's it. I'm getting out of it. Enough is enough. Okay. money makeover and I'm like that's it I'm getting out of it enough is enough so okay and game on in two and a half years of miscellaneous 16 different kinds of jobs including working the assembly line you get free yeah wow what kind of sacrifices did you make along that journey of two and a half years um I I sold my tv and I gave away my couch I I kind of became a minimalist. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I highly recommend Fumio Sasaki's book, Goodbye Things.

It really helped me with this. As far as other sacrifices, sleep. Sleep is a thing. I'm really excited about getting a lot of sleep in the future. That's fantastic. So no TV, no couch, and no sleep is what it takes for you to become debt-free. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I didn't get much money for my TV, but it made me a lot more productive. That's true. You don't think about that part. It's not the money that'll do it. It's the productivity. Right. Wow.

So did you have people cheering you on? Was there anyone around you in this debt-free journey? Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was really supportive of me, but especially my wonderful parents and my amazing boyfriend over there. All right. That's awesome. Yeah. They would watch my dog for me while I would deliver pizza and stuff in the evening. Wow. Very good. Good for you. Thank you. So tell me about this business

you want to start. Well, I want to be a financial coach to help people to basically follow their dreams. And right now, like my dreams are to become a writer and an artist so I can focus on my passions because basically because my expenses are really low right now. Wow. That's awesome. So you want to go, hey, I was screwed. I don't want anyone else to go through this. I'm going to become a financial coach to help them do this. Right.

And that's part of my dream to be a writer and do all these other things. Yeah. And I can help other people follow their dreams too. Way to go. That's incredible. Very well done. Proud of you. Thanks, Dave.

Very good job. Good job. Felt good to quit this morning. It did. It's still a little scary, but i'm also confident that i'm going to make it happen yeah you won't have any trouble landing another position if you need something i mean you can do anything because you've done anything and everything so you can go do something else if you have to she's not scared to work a stop gap you know whatever it takes so i can't

tell if the smile is from quitting her job or being on the debt-free stage maybe both maybe both yeah well that's the beauty of having your finances in order. You can tell them to take this job, and yeah, there you go. So very good. Good job. Well done. All right, Lauren, we've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure.

And, of course, we've got a copy of the Total Money Makeover as well for you to give away and pay it forward to someone else. Get them started on this journey with you. And congratulations. You're a hero. Well done. You put yourself in a great position. How does it feel to be here?

It feels really, really amazing. Like, honestly, when I submitted it, I thought, oh, well, they're never going to contact me because I just not like $150,000 of debt. But I'm hoping that I can inspire people who don't make as much money that they can get out of debt, too. You did. $29,000 income, $15,000 paid off. Well done. Good job. Very good job.

It's pretty amazing what you've done. So we're very, very proud of you. All right. Lauren from Louisville, Kentucky. $15,000 paid off in two and a half years, making $29,000 to $35,000, working everything in sight to make it happen. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debt free! Woo! I love it. Woo-hoo! Dave, she's my age. You know what that tells me?

There's some millennials out there who suck, and there's some who are awesome. That's right. She's one of the awesome ones. I say that all the time. Man. There's awesome and sucks, and the awesome are awesome. That's encouraging. Very cool.

Don't read the headlines. Yeah, don't read the headlines. There's lots of great, great people in this generation. It's pretty incredible. They're on this debt-free stage every week for sure. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. Thank you for joining us, America. George Camel is my co-host today.

Lisa is with us in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Lisa. How are you? I'm hanging in there, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, this is kind of a strange call.

I was really on track with y'all's program and hoped to have been there to do a debt-free screening work from three to five years, made a lot of progress. In the meantime, my partner decided they didn't want to be married anymore, and I've got a lot of medical issues with a couple points away from being listed for a liver transplant. And now I'm dealing with trying to not lose all my equity in my home, and I'm being called a squatter by his attorney. I mean, it's just that I don't know what to do. You're being called a squatter by his attorney. I mean, it's just that I don't know what to do. You're being called a squatter by his attorney.

Is there a negotiated settlement on the divorce yet? No, sir. Then you're not a squatter. He's a butthole. Right. He had an agreement for four years to pay support and let me stay on health insurance. So hopefully I could have had my liver transplant by then.

A year into it, just decided he didn't want to, you know, honor that. Yeah, I don't care. Unfortunately. I don't care what he wants to honor. You have an agreement. Yeah, but unfortunately they can just change their mind. So now what I'm doing is trying to fight i've always been a homeowner i've prided myself in that well the negotiation is not over but he

doesn't get to unilaterally decide that you're a squatter and that you have to leave you have an argument here that you own half of this property and it's a divorce a disagree divorces you know the problem is that a friend of mine does divorce recovery work. He says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. And so it's no longer about I don't really care what you think about me. I don't really care what your attorney thinks about anything. It's not on my list of people that I have to keep happy anymore. You're no longer on that list.

You've abandoned me. And so now all I care about is what the transaction looks like, and you and your attorney just negotiate the transaction. It may involve selling the house if you want to, but he doesn't get to tell you what to do. So if it's best for you to sell the house and get the equity out and split it with him and go on your merry way, that's fine. If it's best for you to fight and make them honor what they originally agreed to,

which I kind of think sounds like it is, then fight it, kiddo. You know, these guys don't get to be bullies and just get to decide. Punch them back. She's a fighter. I can tell. Absolutely. We'll be right back. Our scripture of the day, Romans 15, 13, May the God of all hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Ogmandino said, Failure will never overtake me if my determination to succeed is strong enough.

Francis is with us. Francis is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Francis. How are you? Thank you for answering my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. What's up? Well, I'm a 22-year-old sophomore in college right now, and I've been working minimum wage jobs since 18. And I've managed to save up a total of about $8,000, but I hate my minimum wage job, and I've never been fired or anything like that. I work consistently hard, like 50 to about 60 hours a week. And I don't know, I just want to get out of minimum wage status and do something I like. I know where I want to go. I know what type of

job I want to do. I want to do sales. I don't really care what I do in sales as long as I'm not selling insurance. I love the art of selling, but however, there's a problem. I don't have a car, and I came from a foreign country, and I've been living in the States for about two years, but I don't know how to get a job with starting out with not making enough money to manage to be able to get a car and paying for the maintenance fees for it. So I take it you're not in school. This is an off month right now. No, no, I'm sorry. Are you in college?

Yeah. Okay. I live right next to the university. What are you studying? Marketing. Okay. Francis, what's the country you came from? Well, as a kid, I lived in Japan.

Both my parents are American, so at least that's good. But it's totally different, so I have to get adjusted to here. And I haven't quite fully adjusted yet. In what way? How long have you been here? I've been in the States for about a year. So what is the adjustment that needs to happen? I'm not familiar with the cultural difference between Japan and the U.S.

that would require an adjustment. I don't understand. Well, it's the fact that in Japan, everything is so compact. They have public transportation. And the fact that I don't really have a way of getting around is killing me. But I don't make enough money to manage to get a car or... You have $8,000. Go buy a $3,000 car.

But I'm worried it would eat up all my savings. Go buy a $3,000 car. But I'm worried it would eat up all my savings. Go buy a $3,000 car. And I'm already in debt. Go buy a $3,000 car with cash. Okay. And then, for God's sakes, never take another minimum wage job. They suck. Yeah, I know they suck.

No, it's horrible. I mean, go mow grass and walk dogs. You can make $20 an hour doing that. Clean toilets, you can make $25 an hour doing that. Yeah. This is the world of entrepreneurs, my son. Enter it. Okay.

I'll do whatever it takes. Yeah. And in the meantime, other than paying for the car, what should I do with the other portion of the saved up money? Because I don't want to lose what little I have. You got debt, you said. How much debt do you have? Currently, I have about $25,000 debt in college. Student loans? I'm not worried about that today.'re in college it's in deferral

and what i want you to do right now is to get your head straight on this career thing to where you go i have a value in the marketplace and i'm going to scratch and claw i'm going to find something to do so uh francis i had a young guy that worked here years ago um and he came from Czechoslovakia. And he left here because he was just so entrepreneurial, he couldn't work for anybody. He just had to be doing something for himself. He was so proud to be in America, so proud to have the opportunity to do anything he wanted to do. And he sent me an email two weeks later and he said i just bought a garage of i went to a garage sale and i found a guy that was a nike salesman and he had all of last year's samples and he goes i just bought the whole garage full

for a hundred dollars i put them on ebay and in four hours i sold them for ten thousand dollars i love america so this So this is his mindset. And so I want you to go about four notches his direction from this stinky minimum wage side of the spectrum that you're stuck on. And I want you to go over there where Pavlov lives because Pavlov, man, that kid, God, man. I'm like, and he literally wrote at the bottom, what a country. You know what I mean? It's just like yeah you dadgum right there's nowhere else in the world that you can leave a job and in 48

hours you go buy out a nike garage for salesman's garage sale for 100 bucks to sell it for 10 000 bucks on ebay that afternoon i mean you know it's just but there's stuff like that all over the place yeah you know as long as there'sages, we're not going to be unemployed. So my point is, Francis, you don't ever need to take another minimum wage job again. You need to get your head around that. That's the important thing. And then that'll help you to finish your education without any more debt. And then when you graduate with your marketing degree, you're going to have a whole new set of eyes on how you look at things.

Yeah, he's going to have a whole new skill set and get a great job in sales. And I want more hunger. I'm seeing a lot of excuses, but Francis is also saying, I'll do whatever it takes. I want to feel that hunger. And I think like you're saying, there's a lot of opportunity out there to go make some money if that's the issue right now. And once you're out of college, you'll get a bigger shovel. We'll get the student loan debt cleaned up. But I think it's a paradigm shift right now that francis needs to make yeah you know it it's there's a lot of stuff you can do to make money in this world and uh minimum wage is just it's you know i i don't argue with people about the minimum wage because i don't think anybody ought to take that job i think

you ought to go do something else you know it's like mcdonald's doesn't pay enough great don't work at mcdonald's doofus go do something else you know walmart doesn't pay enough great don't work at walmart you know it's a free country go work somewhere where you can make more money but you don't get to tell those people what to do you just go do your thing but everybody's so dadgum worried about managing everybody else's business in this country today you know mind your own dadgum business and go do your thing, man. So, yeah, you're not going to get rich, and you're not going to have anything but financial trouble working minimum wage jobs. And so you've got to decide something different.

And, I mean, man, you can cut grass and make $25 an hour. Yep. So, George, I learned this stuff. I guess I grew up with entrepreneurs. So I was 12 years old. You weren't up with entrepreneurs. So I was 12 years old. You weren't scared to mow lawns. I was 12 years old. I had 27 yards to cut.

Most of them were $3 to $4 a yard. And I'm such a dadgum math nerd that minimum wage in those days was $1.65 an hour. Wow. Okay. So I figure if I can cut the grass in under an hour for $3, I made double minimum wage. That's a good way. an hour for three bucks i made double minimum wage and so i would start a stopwatch and see if i could beat double what my buddies were making flopping whoppers and so this is how my brain worked my whole life and so i want to transfer one or two of those brain cells from me to you

francis right now okay i want you to start thinking that way and go how can i make double triple quadruple? Matter of fact, where I don't even think about hourly ever again. I just think about profit. Oh, yeah. And there's so many sales jobs out there, entry-level, cold-calling stuff. And if he's hungry, he's going to make way more than minimum wage doing that. Hustle and grind, baby.

Hustle and grind. And if you know how to sell, you're right. Sell something other than insurance. Get out there and sell something. I don't care what it is. I mean, as long as you're not ashamed of it. But, can wake tables at a nice restaurant and oh yeah bazillion times more than minimum wage it's hard work i wasn't suggesting none of this is easy but good god being broke is hard too yeah so pushing that through so your dad first generation right yeah yeah my parents immigrated here to country, and they went through a similar thing where

they had to go to college and kind of earn their stripes a little bit and get into these jobs that maybe didn't pay well and move their way up over time. But your dad and your mom, I mean, I've met them. They hustle and grind. Oh, yeah. I mean, they- They're Middle Eastern. They're not scared of work, and they like a good hustle, and they're real frugal.

So they can make money work. Yeah. And that's the beauty of they can make money work. Yeah. And that's the beauty of the American dream right there. And then here's George Camel with a K sitting here. No one thought it would happen. Yeah. There we go. But we're here.

Yeah. Very, very cool. That's the American dream, Dave. I think it's a beautiful thing. It's absolutely incredible. And I promise to pay you more than minimum wage. Thank you, Dave. And it starts today.

James and Kelly, you have it on good authority. It's on tape. It's right here. It's on YouTube. It's in the cloud. You got record of this, George. Proud of you, man. It's on YouTube forever.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, guys, this is James, senior producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramzshow.com.