The Ramsey Show - App - I Have Eight Student Loans…Which Do I Pay Off First? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 16, 2021

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Exciting times around here at Ramsey. The Borrowed Future podcast is exploding. It is being shown everywhere. And podcast, Borrowed Future documentary. We do have both. We have a podcast, but documentary we do have both we have a podcast but documentary is running through my head and the fine print podcast is what i was trying to get both of them in my head because your your podcast the fine print is doing extremely well

as usual and uh lots of things going on now the borrowed future documentary you can see it at apple tv at amazon prime and at googleorrowedFuture.com. And it's just like any other documentary. You can rent it, watch it. It is enthralling. If you're a teacher, if you go to BorrowedFuture.com and want to show it to your class, we will let you watch it for free. No charge. But tens of thousands of people now, over 100,000 people have viewed this already,

and it's just been out a few weeks. It's already a big hit. And one of the things that we address in Borrowed Future, of course, it's how student loans are killing the American dream. We are not against education. Some people mad about the student loan mess are saying all four-year degrees are worthless. They're not. You can make more than a lot of four-year degrees as a diesel mechanic or a welder.

You can make more than most lawyers as a plumber. But all four-year degrees aren't useless. I have a four-year degree. All three of my kids have a four-year degrees aren't useless. I have a four-year degree. All three of my kids have a four-year degree. My hope is that my grandchildren will also study and become academically proficient. The problem is not four-year degrees. The problem is that higher education in some cases and some people about higher education have lost your freaking minds. And you are studying nuanced, ridiculous things that have no use in the marketplace, and you're paying $100,000 or $200,000 for the privilege of getting a master's degree in left-handed puppetry. And it's just stupid.

It's just stupid. So this FreeOp, how do you say this? I think it's just FreeOp. FreeOp. F-R-E-O-P-P.org. They just did a full comprehensive rate of return analysis on college, and it's called Is College Worth It? And it's from FreeOp.org, F-R-E-O-P-P. So this report assesses the economic value of nearly 30,000 bachelor's degree programs at 1,775 colleges and universities across the United States. Very interesting detailed study on this.

Four in five engineering programs have an ROI above $500,000. Wow. You get a degree in engineering, you will make your money back and make an extra $500,000 over your life, at least as a result of having done this. But what was the number? Was it 1 in 16? What was the 16 number? 16% have a negative ROI of all programs. So almost 1 in 5 of all, not engineering, of all degrees. So when you get this degree and you pay too much for it at some kind of a famous school because you wanted to go to a famous school,

or you study something that's just dumb, you're just dumb for getting a degree in that. It's kind of weird that we're dumb about education, but we are. And that's just dumb to get a degree in this nuanced BB stacking, underwater BB stacking. I've got a master's degree in that. You know, I've got a master's degree in Czechoslovakian medieval art. That's an ROI? You're not going to make money on this, dude. This is going to be a long, there's only one thing you can do with that. Become a professor of Czechoslovakian art.

That's all you can do. There's no jobs for that except at Starbucks. That's it. And so you're going to be a barista. That's what you're going to be. And there's no ROI on your Czechoslovakian medieval art degree. So this is the thing, like, it's crazy. Yeah, and it goes on to say here, and this is no shocker, that the bachelor's degree programs

like engineering, computer science, economics, nursing, they do have a positive ROI. But when you start to go into art, music, philosophy, religion, psychology, it says students can be financially worse off than if they'd never gone to college at all. And so that scares me. And a lot of people, they're not thinking about college choice, and they're not thinking about the ROI of their degree. And we talk about how we're not against education. We just want the education to match the goals. So if you want to be a nurse, yes, you've got to go to school. But if you want to go into art, unless you want to be an art teacher, you may not need to go get a four-year degree at the Ivy League school.

Yeah, and after accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor's degree drops to 129,000 on average. That's the median. Over a quarter of the programs have a negative ROI. Elite schools like Caltech and Penn dominate the list of the highest ROI programs, but attending an elite school is not a golden ticket. Some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI. And let me just tell you, it's hard to get an ROI when you pay $200,000 for a bachelor's degree. I don't care what it's in.

It's hard to get a return on that investment. And versus if you'd have paid $60,000 for that same degree from a state school, you would have gotten the same freaking job, by the way. The same exact job. If you got, you know, a degree in IT security, four-year degree in information systems, specialization in IT security, excellent degree field. You've got a degree in supply chain.

Oh, my God, obviously we need some of those people working right now. And so, you know, you've got a degree in that. That's a big-time job. I mean, most of those jobs, people are coming out, state school making 85 000 bucks right now with an undergrad no no masters okay and that's a legitimate roi and you paid 60 000 bucks for that or less for that degree but if you want to go freaking over to some ivy league and pay two and a quarter for that it doesn't roi is quick and and even when it does

it's not as good obviously because you over you overpaid for virtually the same education. Yeah, I almost fell into that trap. I almost went to film school, and it cost $200,000 for four years. And I didn't even know about Ramsey, and I thought, this doesn't sound like a good idea. I don't know that I'm going to be the next big director, so maybe I shouldn't spend $200,000 on film school. Wow. So there's a lot of mistakes people are making, and it all comes down to parents, guidance counselors, the college industry. There's so much pressure that these 17, 18-year-olds are feeling to make the biggest financial decision of their life. Well, and

across the culture, we've lied to them that you have to get a college degree to succeed. A, not true. B, the implication is that getting a college degree in something stupid is okay it's not okay c going to any stupid school and overpaying is okay that's not okay either so get a degree that you don't pay a lot for in something that causes you to actually go into the marketplace and win boom there's the formula you know but i, the meme that's going around, I saw it the other day on Instagram one time a month. I'm on there. Said, you know, here's Jim, the philosophy major, who hasn't had a job in two years, and he lives in his mother's basement, or he lives in his whatever.

And here's Joe, who Jim makes fun of because he doesn't have a college degree, making $85,000 a year as a lineman. He's cutting off Jim's electricity right now. So that's the meme that's going around. That's a good meme. So, you know, that's it. That's what's going on. So check it out, BorrowedFuture.com.

Make sure your teens are watching this. Degrees and knowledge are important. Doing them stupid would be a bad idea. This is The Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budgetian healthcare ministries is a ramsey trusted provider

so First major trade book I've done in eight years is on sale, pre-sale starting today. It's called Baby Steps Millionaires. How ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too. It'll actually arrive at your house on January the 11th. If you pre-order, you'll get $100 worth of bonus items, including Baby Steps Millionaire's audiobook and e-book. Yes, I read the audiobook. Legacy Journey audiobook and e-book. Yes, I read the audiobook. Baby Steps Millionaire's live stream and the Ramsey Smart Tax filing for your income tax and Ramsey Plus 30-day free trial. For that. All of this is over $100 worth of goodies included in your purchase for the book.

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Taylor's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Taylor, what's up? How are you doing, sir? I'm doing well. Good. How can we help? Yes, sir. So my wife and I have about $170,000 in student loan debt,

and we are considering moving about five hours away for another job to try to get more intent to getting out of this debt. And I just wanted to know your opinion on if it would be a wise decision or not. So what are these jobs? What are you moving from and to? I would be moving from where I am now to doing the same job, a nurse anesthetist. And I'll be doing the exact same job, just at a different location. So what were you making and what will you be making? making $150,000, and just the base raise would be about $190,000, with the potential to go up to about $290,000, depending on how much overtime I bike to work.

Wow. That's a lot of upside here. And as far as moving, you're married? Yes. Okay. And how does your wife feel about this, the move? So we have a four-month-old. She's currently staying home with her right now,

and she's just willing to do whatever for us to just tackle this debt and get out of debt even sooner so that we can, you know, eventually get into a house and start saving for retirement and all the sequential steps of the baby steps. You're asking the question of whether you should move. Why would you not do this? Well, the pros definitely are the pay raise and, you know, the DFW area is a good place to be. And another pro is that we do have some family over there that would help.

The con would obviously just be packing everything up and moving um i'm also uh in the reserves and i also have a drill here once a month um so that would just be another little roadblock um and those are kind of the things that are holding me up. You're moving to DFW? I thought you were in Fort Worth. Yes, sir. I'm in Fort Worth. We would be moving five hours away in another city in Texas. Where?

Lubbock. Okay. All right. So Lubbock pays $100,000 a year more than you're making now in DFW for nurse anesthetists if i did um some overtime i could potentially exceed greater than a hundred why does lubbock pay a hundred thousand dollars more than dfw that's not logical they are um-staffed. They're desperate for help. Yes, sir, and DFW is very attractive for families and people wanting to move here.

So the supply for people wanting to be here is a lot greater than the demand. Logical. Okay. So the downside is just packing up and moving. No one likes doing that. But there's not a lot of downside, it sounds like. You said you have family in Lubbock, or are you saying you have family in Fort Worth? So I have one family member here in Fort Worth, and my wife's majority of her family are in Lubbock.

Okay. Well, it sounds like I'm doing this move. And here's the thing. No one said you had to stay 20 years. Go over there for five years, get the mess cleaned up, lay yourself a big nest egg, and then decide what you want to do. The supply-demand curve may shift again, and you may be able to move into a larger town

if you want to move back to a DFW-type situation out of Lubbock if you want a different lifestyle than a small town because lubbock's obviously small town lifestyle yes sir and so um you know it's how you want to live i don't care how you want to live um i got a buddy of mine from lubbock and it's so flat there he says you can watch your dog run away for three days and so um you know but the uh uh you know and it's a wonderful town i've been there a bunch of times. So you just decide what you want to do, how you guys want to live. But I don't think there's anything wrong with at your age and your stage of career in the first five years of your child's life being near the kid's grandparents

and her mom and dad and whatever and that kind of stuff. That's all positives. I think it takes the pressure off of the decision if you say it might not be permanent it might be a five-year thing and if you choose to stay that's okay but if you get over there miserable you can always move because the beautiful thing about the career field that you chose is it has a wonderful roi yeah unlike we were talking about in the first segment i mean nurse anesthetist is ding ding you're the money he can make and i'm a little surprised he's not making better than that at dfw uh but that's because it's just a great income producer man that that one whoo yeah and make more than a lot of docs

so uh good good good choice yeah i i don't you know and here's the other thing i you could look for yet another option what's that is there something in dfw that pays more do you do some maybe it's just the hospital group you're with or is there something if you went to let's go between lubbock and uh in size and dfw how about san antonio you know and move down us you know in between i mean dallas is a major you know top 20 cities san antonio is not a major, you know, top 20 city. San Antonio is not. Yeah.

And so you can move. Maybe there's a middle ground. I don't know. But the good news is family's near. I'm doing it for a while, I think. Yeah. It's a reversible decision. And, I mean, he's got a great income, and it's $170K in debt.

Either way, you're going to pay it off in two years or two and a half years. And so, to me, is it worth the move for that? Now, with the upside of overtime and really stacking up some money and getting yourself in a great financial position, I'm doing that if it means driving five hours and packing up my stuff and the baby. Yeah, packing up your stuff is not a thing, man. You ain't got that much stuff. So open phones at 888-825-5225.

Melissa's in San Diego. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Hey there. I'm a longtime listener, but I've actually never heard this question answered over the air. So I am 70 grand in debt. I'm 28 years old. I have 55 grand in student loans. I'm probably a very common theme on that documentary you guys did on

bar teachers. And I am working on my debt snowball in December. I'm actually going to be, can I get a decent pay raise? And I plan on putting all of that into paying down debt. Way to go. And I'm wondering, thank you. And I'm wondering how to go about paying down my student loans because when I look up how to do the student loans, I actually see eight different student loans because it's a multiple year degree. So it's student loans A through H and they are all different amounts. Yeah. So we're going to line those up in the debt snowball. Are you saying do those count as eight different debts? Yes. Yes. So just line those up from smallest to largest. We're ignoring the interest rate completely. And that way you're going to feel the progress. When you knock one out,

you're going to free up a payment. You're going to feel that progress. You're going to knock the second one out and you're going to work your way through. I wouldn't treat it as one giant loan. We want you to feel the progress here. We want you to feel the pain too. And you're going to get through this thing pretty quickly with this raise. So just keep following the baby steps. Does that answer the question yes yeah that's what you do what's the other 15 000 in debt so 12k is in the car and three grand is in credit cards okay so that three grand is going to be interspersed somewhere in those student loans in that debt snowball and the 12k is probably at the bottom it's probably your largest debt then is my guess

if you've got eight into 55 maybe not you might have a student loan bigger than 12 but um but that car is towards the bottom and that credit card is probably towards the top and it will be interspersed but yes separate the eight george is exactly right that way you feel the progress because that's what you want you want this sense of traction human beings all of us psychologically yearn to have observable progress in our lives. That's why the snowball works. This is The Ramsey personality is my co-host today. This is the Ramsey Show.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Joe's in Fort Dodge, Iowa. Hi, Joe. How are you? Pretty well. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. How can we help, sir?

Yeah, so I'm calling in about maybe some interviewing tips. Specifically, I'm in the about maybe some interviewing tips specifically. I'm in the utility industry as an electrical designer, and I've been doing it about eight years. I'm aspiring to be a supervisor, and it seems as though every time I interview, when I'm turned down, they'll say something to the effect of, you don't have any supervisory experience. So then I go from there. You know, my engineering manager and engineering supervisor are supportive

and know I do a really good job. But that's the problem I keep running into is I just keep being told I don't have any supervisory experience, but I really don't have that opportunity per se in the position i'm in now i would um preemptively strike on that then okay okay and so meaning early in the conversation i'm just going to say out loud you probably notice on my resume I don't have supervisory experience but in this case it won't matter at all because what I do know

is how to add value to other people and how to serve and really the essence of leadership is service right or something like that that's real pithy like that that was pretty cool that was really good Dave I'm impressed you got the job so but i mean if you preemptively strike

and you say and you give some indication you understand what leadership looks like my job as a leader is not to boss people around my job as a leader would be to add value to the people that i'm leading my job would be to serve them and enable them to do their jobs better. And so the essence of leadership is really service. And so a servant leader is the only real leader. Everyone else is just a boss. And if you're looking for somebody to be a boss, I really can't help you. But if you want somebody to lead, I do have the personal character and skills to do that, even though I've not been in the role.

Before it even enters their mind, you've already busted their head open right right that's the only thing i don't do george you got a suggestion what was the conversation like when they when they said well you don't have supervisory experience what was your response um i guess i really didn't have uh a follow-up to that other than just stop you know just keep trying to do what i can and i that was the turn down though that wasn't in the interview that's when they called and said you don't get the job because i'm surprised it didn't come up in the interview how is that not a conversation point oh they're gutless oh man is there a position there that you would want where you could work your way up in that company to a supervisor level that's what that that's what i'm

trying to do actually so where I'm at now, I'm a, as I mentioned, electrical designer for our linemen. And the position would be for substation. So it's different, but it's at the company. So I'd be working with a different group altogether, big learning curve, but I wouldn't be bothered by it at all, actually excited to and really what actually what happened is that they turned turned me down maybe about a month ago and the person that they accepted or that they gave the position to they turned that down as well so now it's posted again and so so i'm just trying to get ready to hopefully get us another interview um

you know and just yeah so okay what i want you to do is when you get off i want you to go to uh uh just jump on amazon well amazon's not delivering real well right now um let me think um yeah i'll just send you one. We've got a special edition of this. The book is 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell. And I'll send you a copy of that as a gift, all right? And I want you to read that book, like, in the next 48 hours as soon as you get it. Sure. And what you're looking for are tweetable one-liners that you can drop all in this interview as an indication you have a clue about leadership.

Sure. And then you just bring it up again preemptively and say you can see, you know, as a matter of fact, I've applied for jobs like this here in the past and didn't get them, and the turndown was I didn't have experience. But you know what? You don't need experience to love people. You don't need experience to lead people. All you do is have character and actually care about someone else and not be self-centered, be other-centered.

And that's how you lead. That's how high-quality, world-class leaders lead. They're not arrogant jerks they're not a boss with a cattle prod you know that's not what they're doing right and so uh they're actually standing over going to come this way this is where we're all going together let's all go together matter of fact when we get there there's going to be skittles and rainbows so let's go boys and girls come on let's go and you know this is what we're talking about we're leading we're not pushing leaders are pulley bosses are pushy so uh that kind of stuff so i'll send you maxwell's book because john's a

friend of mine we did a license ramsey licensed version of it i wrote the forward in our version i'll send you a copy of it um that's his that's his best seller anything john maxwell wrote on leadership will help you but that's his best seller You might, if you want to get a second one, probably 360-degree leader. You think, George? Yeah. And Ken Coleman's got a great interview guide on his site that's free. It's a great resource on the interview side. So on the leadership side, definitely show them that you're engaging and learning about leadership

and that you're very interested in this. But on the other side, the interview guide might help you just in the conversational pieces along the way. Yeah, that's gold. That's gold. Jump on King Coleman's site, get anything he's got, too. Okay, I will do that. Yeah, those things. But for sure, Maxwell's probably doing more on the art of leadership than anybody else out there.

Most of my writing on leadership and the entree leadership stuff is more the science meaning the tactical the hand-to-hand combat though what to do but maxwell is very art and is just uh he's the grandpa in the space and again a good friend of mine just a wonderful man but also a wonderful writer on the subject of course jim collins uh is one of the better writers too in this space but he's a researcher jim is, on, like, he did the book Good to Great. So overall, start reading some leadership books overall. That's the moral of the story here. But between now and how to prep for the job interview is actually give some indication you understand what leadership is, even though you've not been in a technical formal role.

And if you've ever done leadership off-site, meaning you are, I don't know, you're on the deacon board of the church, or you serve as the treasurer at the local Kiwanis Club, I don't care what it is. I mean, anywhere you've been in a leadership role of some kind, extracurricular activities, so to speak, you're the captain of the softball team. I don't care. I'd bring that up and go, and here's the lessons I learned when I was doing that. Yeah, and the right person can be trained if that's a piece of it.

But, you know, when I started here, Dave, I didn't have all of the experience and checked every single box. They just went, this guy's eager to learn. He's hungry, humble, smart. We can teach him all the practical skills. Yeah, because there's not any born leaders. I mean, I've been to the hospital. They always say it's a boy it's a girl they never say it's a leader you know they never do that so leaders are grown when i started i was a boss and now i'm a

world-class leader i got over a thousand team members and i didn't say i was perfect i just said i was world-class leader and i am really good at this and i spent a lot of time a lot of energy learning and growing into that and that's what anybody has to do you're right george hungry world-class leader and i am really good at this and i spent a lot of time a lot of energy learning and growing into that and that's what anybody has to do you're right george hungry humble and smart to quote our friend pat linchoni which is another great book to read by the way anything he writes a lot of good book book recommendations anything that pat writes is worth reading in that space as well so he's uh uh well i mean i guess i've written read everything he's written too i think i have oh his new one is good on this um the motive i think it's oh yeah that's that's a new

one yeah i think that's good for this subject as well i bring a stack of books say here's here's my reading list get me started on books man i can sell some books because i love books but the uh yeah the motive is all about don't take a leadership role so that you get to be the boss. Take a leadership role because you have the privilege of serving. We need more of that. And if you had that, you're a real leader. Probably not a presidential candidate, but you're probably a real leader. Ooh!

This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Well, Christmas! This year it's in December, if you hadn't heard. Don't let it sneak up on you, baby. Nope. Hey, for some of you, what should be a time of joy or tradition or togetherness? For some people, Christmas is just stress. How are we going to pay for presents, grocery bills, even some travel? How are we going to do all this?

All the other stuff, man. It doesn't have to be that way. You can put together a plan for your money, and you can still do it by Christmas. You'll have the confidence when everything else seems out of control. We're going to teach you a plan that will change your life in Financial Peace University. We've taught almost 10 million people in Financial Peace University how to get out of debt how to save money how to become wealthy how to become a baby steps millionaire like the new book and how to be outrageously generous and you're going to put the plan into practice with budgeting with the premium version

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George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Kevin is in richmond virginia hi kevin how are you hi doing well how are you doing gentlemen better than i deserve how can we help all right so i've been a dave ramsey listener for probably a year going on two years now and after me and my wife's uh second wedding this year thanks to COVID. We ended up sitting down talking about our finances. We were fresh out of college, all kinds of fun, you know, college loan debt, bought a house, both have vehicles on loans. And I just want to get a grasp of the baby steps. You know, we got through the first one of the book, got through the first one, was motivated,

and we just cannot seem to get maybe step two. So I was wondering what advice you can give to somebody that's struggling to stay on the grind of getting past step two, since that's probably one of the hardest ones. So when you say you're struggling with this, are you not seeing progress or are you just not doing it? I would say a little bit of both. I'd put the blame on myself saying that I'm the one that's kind of the rational spender. When I see a good deal, I go after it and that's my fault. But I recognize it and I want to do better by it. But that's really the big struggle for me is that when I get a little bit of debt, I see room,

and I try to fill it right back up when I find a good deal. Yeah, my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, he'd say, go clean the garage, and I'd say, well, are you going to help? He said, no, I thought of it. He said recognizing the problem is 90% of solving it. Yeah, and I've already went through and kind of sold everything He said recognizing the problem is 90% of solving it. Yeah. And I've already went through and kind of sold everything that I didn't need, everything that had a value within me and my wife's house just to, you know, try to get some motivation, some extra room to start it, get the ball rolling.

Yeah, but then you went out and spent everything at Target. It did, yes. So that doesn't do any good. You're just spinning your wheels. So how old are you guys? I'm 24. My wife's 23. Cool.

So what's your household income? Household income, I would say, is around $90,000. Good for you. What do you do for a living? You'll laugh at this one. I'm a finance director. Cool. No, it's not unusual at all man i had a

finance degree and couldn't add up my own budget they don't teach us they don't teach us that they teach us corporate finance when we're getting our degrees they don't teach you anything about personal finance so it's not unusual and what's your wife do i'm a wife's teacher good okay and um how much debt do you have, not counting the house you bought? Not counting the house, it's probably around, I'd say, $100,000. What's that on? So student loans for me is $75,000. For my wife, it's $36,000. She got extremely lucky and blessed and had some of her stuff forgiven. And then I have a truck at $25,000, and my wife has a car at $7,000, and then

all the credit card debt is me at about $4,500. Okay, I thought you said $100,000. I'm sorry, what did that add? It ended up being a little more than $100,500. Okay. I thought you said 100,000. I'm sorry. What did that add? It ended up being a little more than 100,000. Closer to 150. Yeah. Okay. So in order to do your day job,

you have to be more detailed than you've been on this subject. You have the intellectual capability to be detailed and to lay out a process and follow a process. You have emotionally chosen not to do that so far. An indication of that is I have $100,000 worth of debt when actually you have about $150,000.

Okay? Yeah. You following me? Oh, yeah. dollars worth of debt when actually you have about 150 okay yeah you follow me so yeah what you're gonna have to do is rise up out of the uh a little bit of hopelessness and a little bit of immaturity that you've described and say time for me and my new wife to be adults, throw our shoulders back, because children do what feels good. Adults devise a plan and follow it. And I want you to pretend like I just hired you for $200,000 a year to fix this simple little mess you have. Because in terms of mathematics, it's a very simple primitive mess.

There's not that much to it. The only problem with it is the person in your mirror. Make sense? Oh yeah, I agree with you. This is all behavior. It's not intellect. You don't have an intellectual problem. You're very smart. There's no question about that. Yeah. Kevin, have you guys been through Financial Peace University? We have not, no. sit down, watch all nine lessons, and you've got to get intense, man, because right now I think we care more than you do about getting out of debt, and you've got to care. You've got to say, I want a different future for me in my life.

I've got to poke at you enough to piss you off. I need to get you mad in a good way. You know what I'm talking about? Like I'm the drill sergeant and you're in boot camp. Yeah. And so George is putting you in boot boot camp can you treat it that way if we give it to you as a free gift i think i could yeah intellectually decide i'm in boot camp i'm going to get my butt kicked here and i'm going to do everything exactly as these people say

i'm not going to second guess anything because i'm the guy who made a mess not the guy who cleaned it up but you're about to be the guy that cleaned it up. If you'll follow this exactly what we tell you to do, you're going to be out of debt and 100% debt-free in two years, other than your house. You may or may not sell the truck in that process. I'll leave that up to you. That truck's questionable.

But the rest of it is just you're going to have to get after it and scratch and claw and keep your butt out of target that's the thing so it's a danger zone yeah i mean you you know you just i hey i'm just like you man this is how i learned this stuff when i first started this stuff i thought that when you went to sam's or costco the reason they checked your receipt on the way out was i thought it was federal law you had to spend 200 bucks when you're in there and i thought they were checking to make sure i spent my 200 bucks oh you didn't you got to go back in there and get some more peanut butter dude get that five gallons of peanut butter because you hadn't spent your 200 bucks because you i just went in there and buy crap

i mean this dopamine rush that you get of just buying stuff and those of us that are spenders we understand that but you've got to get up over the top of that and say, hey, if I can get my act together, if I live like no one else, later I can live and give like no one else, changes everything. Turns out you can go broke saving money. How's that for a deal? Everything's 100% off when you don't buy it. Oh, man. George, that's rather.

I'm excited to be a sergeant in this boot camp. I've never been a sergeant. It's exciting. There you go. Just work on it. I can just see you yelling at somebody. I've got a great yell. Yeah, I bet.

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