The Ramsey Show - App - I Kept My Wife Out of Our Finances

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: What to do with a bonus from work, A 22-year-old getting a $1 million inheritance, How to set yourself up for success after college. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, and host of the ever-popular Dr. John Deloney Show on Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today as we talk about your relationships, your boundaries, your mental health, your career, your job, and even your money. We talk about you right in front of you, right here on the Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. We're going to start off this hour with New York City calling.

Wait a minute. I'm going to get this right. There it is. Kadidra is with us. Hey, Kadidra, how are you? Hi, I'm well. Thank you for having me. Sure.

What's up in your world? So I have a significant amount of student loan debt. It's around $67,000. I also have around $19,000, $20,000 in a personal loan repayment, as well as about $5,000 in credit card debt. I just received a $20,000 bonus from my job, and I want to know what makes the most sense. Do I apply it to the student loan, or do I pay off the personal loan? What makes the most sense for me? That's a good question. Thank you for being a listener. We appreciate it, and a new listener at that. So here's what we teach, and then the more important thing is why we teach it, all right? We want you to get out of debt as fast as you possibly can.

And apparently you're moving that direction since you gave me all your debts and then said I've got some money. And the reason we want you to get out of debt as fast as you possibly can is that frees up your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. Okay. So we're in agreement. We want to get out of debt the fastest possible way. We also want to get out of debt in a way that causes us to actually finish the plan. So this only works, this suggestion of mine, the answer to your question only works if it's not the only thing you do, but it's part of the whole thing that you do as you plug into this whole Ramsey ecosystem on money, okay?

So within that ecosystem, you're going to live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else you're going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next you're going to live on nothing you're not going out to eat you're not going on a vacation you're going to pour every dollar at this debt with great intensity and then you're going to get out of debt okay now if you're going to do out of debt, okay? If you're going to do all of that, then this works. If you're going to screw around with it and ish it, it's not going to work. So I've got to give you that caveat to the advice. Now, in that context, what we teach people to do is list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything with the smallest debt,

and attack the smallest debt, and then the next, and then the next debt and then the next and then the next and then the next. That gives you a sense of traction, a sense of power, a sense of destiny that this is going to work. It gives you hope. And so I'm going to list your $5,000 worth of credit cards and I'm going to pay them off and then I'm going to pay the rest of it on the personal loan. And as soon as I get that personal loan gone, I don't have any credit card payments i don't have any personal loans then i'm going to attack the student loans with a vengeance because you're going to pay off all but five thousand of the personal loans and you're going to cut up your stupid credit card so they didn't grow back okay just making sense yes it's making sense okay there's a lot of recurring payments that i need to get rid of on my

credit card so that i can do that yeah well just move them over your debit card yeah or in you know that's what i use i use a debit card and you got to move them over but chomp them up get rid of them and if you take 20 000 and apply it to 20 and 5 then that that leaves only $5,000 on the personal loan. Did I do that math right? Yes. And you make how much? $90? No, I make $160. Oh, great. Okay, so you're going to knock out that other $5 in like 20 minutes, right?

Yes. Yeah, and then we're going to knock out the student loans in less than one year. And you're going to be free. How long have you had these student loans? Since 2015. Okay. It's time for Sally Mae to leave your life. Seven years is too long for her to be invading your space.

Yes. So, John, the power of paying off the smallest to largest, that incremental progress, there's actually psychology about that. John has a Ph.D. in psychology, so I can ask him about these things. Yeah. So do you, you're either overwhelmed or the joy is welling up inside you and you can't speak. Which one is it? I'm a little overwhelmed. I'm a little nervous. So just to reiterate what Dave just said, by the end of today, you're going to have no credit card debt. You're going to have five grand left on a family loan that with your income, hopefully you can go to the bank and get that $5,000,

and you're out of that one too. And then after today, because of one free phone call and because you're ready to knock this thing out, then you've just got to tackle the last big, ugly, hairy dog there and cut your credit cards up and get a debit card, right? And then you're ready to rock and roll that's i there's an intensity to this though and you feel that is that what's a little overwhelming yes i absolutely need to be rid of all that yeah so here's what we have discovered and this is for the benefit of all our listeners, but also for you. What we've discovered is personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge.

You've been, you're a smart lady. I can tell by talking to you just how articulate you are. You've been trying to fix this with your intellect, and it's not an intellectual problem. It's a, I get pissed off at Sally Mae, and i'm kicking the old woman out of my freaking house problem there's an emotion of visceral move to this and that is tied to the success of people who get out of debt you cannot fix a problem that you made emotionally with an intellectual fix you have to fix it with an emotional change and that applies to marital issues that applies to most mental health issues you can't think your way out of

most of these problems you can get a plan cognitively but then you got to go do you got to go be different you got to act different right little by little by little yeah good that's a great call and that's for you know her call is for all of you out there. So here's the deal. They actually did a study at Northwestern University that studied the idea of paying off your debts. Highest interest rate first versus smallest to largest. And the conclusion of this university study was Dave Ramsey's right. And we're like, well, we kind of already knew that because we already taught 10 million people how to do this while you guys were doing that study up there in a vacuum. Dave, I've been at those tables where we're discussing data, and everyone kind of hangs their head like,

oh, man, we didn't expect these findings. I just imagined that table. They were going to show you. No, well, I don't know. I don't know whether they did. So great. If they did at least come out and publicly they put it out okay and they literally did say all this time remsey's been right yeah you know so i don't know whether they were trying to prove

me right or prove me wrong but it doesn't matter we already knew we were right because we had more proof social text than proof text than they had so we already knew that we had more data than they would have ever seen with the number of people that have actually done this but that's the thing guys you've got to have a level of hope and you know your behaviors your impulse your lack of control your disorganization your immaturity your inability to delay pleasure these are all things that you got to fix it's called growing up and when you do and you apply a that a behavior fix to getting out of debt, you'll get out of debt. But when you try to intellect your way out of a behavior problem, you can't do it. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting

health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John's brand new book is called Own Your Past, Change Your Future.

It is on pre-sale right now for only $20. And John's got two PhDs, 20 years of counseling experience, packed it into an easy-to-understand book. This book's going to have a positive impact on everyone. Everyone should read this book. I've got to tell you, I personally, it's changed some of the language I'm using, not only with you guys but inside my own head as well, and that's just from me reading through the manuscript

because it's got my name on the publishing, and so I wanted to know what the flip we were saying before we put it out there. And it turns out, you know, it'll help like a 30-year-old that's looking to sharpen their mind. This is not a thing you have to, like, this is a book for crazy people. It's not. It's a book for all of us have a little crazy, and we all could adjust it a little bit. That's right. All of us have some things we could polish up and just, you know, a little more peace more peace a little less anxiety all of us could adjust the way we're looking at certain things and

you give a framework for doing that and that's why i think this book's going to blow up yeah there's a lot of books out there that are scholars talking to scholars and they're fine and they're good and they're important and there's a lot of books out there on what i call way outside the bell curve for some significant mental illness for folks who are practitioners there's almost nothing for folks who are just trying to live life better right have a better conversation that's right with yourself that's right have a better conversation with uh your friend I mean the people you love right you know in our world today we were talking about this before we went on the air um you know the number of times that two people can just sit down and almost enjoy a good argument just because we can have a good discussion because we still love each other we

did before we started and after we finished the argument we still think you're wrong but i still love you of course and but everybody you have to hate everybody and you have to chop off everything in our divisive world out there it's like well you said you you you you you you have a mask or you don't have a mask and so i'm pissed at you for the rest of your life you know i mean it's like people are losing their dadgum minds out there they're gone man and so you know we need some new tools to control ourselves and also to interface with other people and just to walk it back you know what i mean we've laughed internally internally, not laughed, but we've thought, really? We look at the number of conversation cards we've sold.

Like, is that where we are? And the reality is, yep, that's where we are. We're starting over kind of like old school. You got to get a thousand bucks and let's just start there, right? That's where we are when it comes to relationships and our mental health right now. And let's do it. And let's just stop pretending. Let's stop walking around the problem.

Let's go right through the middle of it. Well, and to my knowledge, none of our leadership team or publishing team has significant mental health problems, to my knowledge, and every one of them were touched, including me, and informed and given new tools by reading this book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. You know, we've taught gods and grandmas ways of handling money for 30 years here at Ramsey, and John's doing the same thing now, gods and grandmas ways of doing relationships, doing mental health.

It is a complex topic, but people that are smart can take a complex topic and make it simple. Around here we call it putting the cookies on a shelf where everyone can reach them. So preorder your copy today at RamseySolutions.com. It's simple. Around here we call it putting the cookies on a shelf where everyone can reach them. So preorder your copy today at RamseySolutions.com. It's $20. You're going to get the audio version of the book, the e-book version of the book, and you're going to get one month of free weekly therapy sessions from the fine folks at BetterHelp who have come alongside. That makes this $20 purchase an unbelievable deal.

So RamseySolutions.com and check it out. The new book coming out in April. Get it pre-ordered now to get all the goodies. Own your past. Change your future. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. Free samples.

Free shipping. With the two new promos they run coverings, free samples, free shipping. With the two new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from David in Oregon. David writes, I've been paying the bills but not doing a proper budget since my wife and I got married. I thought I could do it, and we coasted by for about 10 years. Then kids came, time flew by and we accumulated

$30,000 in debt. I never made my spouse part of the process and held her off so she didn't have to feel the financial burden. She has a quote unquote feeling that something isn't right when I won't let her see our finances and she's right. I recently read one of Dave's tweets.

Look at you using Twitter to help people. I didn't know that was possible. It said, if you're in a committed relationship, you've got to play with all of your cards face up. How do we start over and do it right this time? This is a moment. This is one of those cool marriage moments. This is a really great question.

I love this question. So, Dave, in my life, I've had several of these in my marriage over 20 years. It always starts with me saying, we need to have a discussion, and I need to invite you into some hard stuff that's going on in my heart and mind, my actions, whatever. And I start with, I'm sorry. I've been living this way, and I haven't brought you along.

I've left you out I've excluded you whatever the thing is and I want to invite you in to help make this right and she's very right to feel betrayed she's very right her feelings are going to be her feelings but it starts with somebody turning the lights on turn the music off and saying I was wrong and I'm sorry let's start here you know and I gotta tell, I mean, I've walked couples through this. And sometimes I played marriage counselor for five minutes in the middle of a coaching session on money in this. And if he will just I had 99 percent of the time, if you got the perfect heart, she's

got the right heart, actually, both of you do for this to for this to be successful and so i would just say look i have screwed this up i'm sorry the reason i screwed it up was it started off with i was just going to take care of it i was going to man up so you didn't have to worry about it and then it got out of control and i was ashamed that i didn't do it right and that caused me to even become more guarded of it and I should have just brought the whole thing to you and we should have worked on it together and I really screwed up but I screwed up because I was trying to be the man and carry this for you and that's not the right way to be a man by the way and I was trying and then when it fell apart and I couldn't do it then I was ashamed of myself and I didn't want I didn't want to reveal to you that I had screwed up because I felt stupid.

And so if he just says that, which is what he said, but if he just says that to her, she's going to be really forgiving. Oh, man. And this usually, when I see a couple like this, there's something underneath it, which there's something about the way they communicate in this home that she doesn't. So if this is my wife, she will not say, hey, I've got a feeling. She will insert herself into this process, right? So there's something about. It could be that they've been married five years and you've been married 20. Well, they've been married 10 years.

In the first five years, Sharon would have been this. Now Sharon would be like, what? It's going on! Very similar here. It's different now. After 40 years, we kind of cut through the bull. Those one-hour conversations

are six minutes. Six seconds. Not I have a feeling. It's like, ah, you're scheming and scamming. What the crap's going on? That's right. But something here

is going to have to change in how they do, because this isn't just going to show up with money. It's going to show up with kids. It's going to show up with everything. It's going to show up with kids. It's going to show up with everything. Let's come up with a new way of doing business, of loving each other.

And here's the lesson that you get out of this, and you learn it through the money lens, and it will affect your whole marriage, to your point. And the lesson that you get out of it that's so beautiful is this, that everything you do is going to be better when you do it together. Right. Instead of you trying to give her the gift of her not having to worry. Right. That is not a real gift. And every time you have a feeling, hey, something's not right, develop a language that y'all can ask each other that question. It just does away with it, right?

Right away. It just goes away. It's poof. You deal with it and you move on. Oh, and by the way, this also tells us that your wife has really, really good intuition. Yep. And so the next time she has a feeling about the car salesman, but you think you want to buy the truck anyway, you need to get off the lot.

Yep. Because her feelings are probably pretty intuitive, probably pretty accurate. Oh, man. It might be God speaking through her. I've learned that the hard way. Yeah. Sharon's Southern, so she says she, it's a seven-syllable word, I got a bad feeling. It might be God speaking through her. I've learned that the hard way. Yeah. Sharon's Southern, so she says she's a seven-syllable word.

I got a bad feeling. And if she gets a bad feeling and I go against it, it costs me $10,000 at least. I just quit doing it. I just don't go against those feelings. They're expensive. I've been wrong almost every single time. I mean, we have to get on the same page, and I don't violate that. I mean, I'll question her. I'm like, was it last night's pizza?

I mean, why are you having a feeling? But she's like, no, no, this guy, I just think he's a bad guy. I don't know what it is, but I can't put my finger on it, but I got a bad feeling. Oh, geez, we're getting away from that guy. Oh, he's ASAP. Going to find out later what happened with him. This is The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Stephen and Melissa are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing well. Pretty good, Dave. How are you? Good to have you guys. Where do you all live? Eaton, Ohio.

Eaton, Ohio. Where is Eaton? Just outside Dayton. Oh, okay. I can do that. I know where Dayton is. Eaton, Ohio. Where is Eaton? Just outside Dayton. Oh, okay. I can do that. I know where Dayton is. All right, good. Good to have you guys.

Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid off? $55,000. All right. Way to go. How long did this take? Seven months. That's quick.

Y'all got after it. And your range of income during that time? $140,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a CNC machinist. And I'm a financial analyst. Cool. What's you all do for a living? I'm a CNC machinist. And I'm a financial analyst. Cool.

What's a CNC machine? I know CNC Music Factory. I don't know CNC machinists. What's that? It's basically, instead of manual machining, basically computer programs, and we're cutting parts. A company I work for actually cuts silicon parts that go in the process of making computer chips.

Oh, wow. Good. Make more. Make more. We're trying. Very busy year. Yeah. Really? Catch up. Catch up. looking parts that go in the process of making computer chips oh wow good make more make more we're trying very busy year yeah really so catch up catch up all right cool man very cool what kind of debt was the 55 000 it was our mortgage oh you had a tiny little mortgage yeah yeah we had a large down payment a large down payment and what's this house worth? About $175,000. Yeah? How old are you two?

I'm 31. And I'm 29. And you have a paid-for house. Y'all are so weird! Wow. Weird people! It's the least weirdest thing about us. I like it.

Way to go, you guys. How fun. So what in the world? Who sets up themselves to put that kind of down payment and be a hundred percent debt-free house and everything by the time you're freaking 30 years old where does all of this come from how do you learn this where's your story of ramsey what in the world uh well i've listened to you for about 10 years now and i never had any consumer debt i'd gone to a couple of your live events and when when me and Stephen started dating a few years ago, I was trying to get him to come

aboard, which he did. He paid off his car and agreed we would never get another car loan and all kinds of things like that. So we were pretty much wanting to pay cash for a house. And I'll let you finish. Well, she was working multiple jobs. She was working multiple jobs. I was working my job. Plus, we both were doing Instacart

and pretty much all our free time that we were allowed to. And we were going to cash flow it. And we were surprised a little early about our daughter arriving sooner than expected. So we decided if we found a house beforehand that we fell in love with,

we'd go ahead and get a small mortgage with the goal of paying it off within a year which you know seven months later ding ding ding yeah so how old is your little baby 10 months oh so you move in three months before yeah you bought the house three months before the baby came yeah whoa you're brave and you're brave moving a pregnant woman into a new house dude that's my show i show, I would have said, hold off, man. Well done. Wow. And we found a house that we love, so it worked out perfectly.

Yeah, and you had a plan to go ahead and knock it out. Yeah, exactly. And that's pretty cool. Yep. So, I mean, you say you grew up listening, and then you converted him when y'all got married. Yeah. So, who were your biggest cheerleaders? People outside of y'all looking at you like you've lost your minds?

We're pretty private people, so not too many people know about it honestly um but we definitely try to like preach debt-free living to anybody who will listen and our families um i'm sure are proud of us so we think they are so i'm just imagining at the machine shop you make a good living you work hard there's some dudes with some big trucks and some jacked up Jeeps. And the one guy with every parking lot's got the guy with a Tesla now. And then you're rolling in with your old and you're just dumping all your money into the house. Yeah. How do you deal with people?

Four tourists. Yeah. See, you're the guy with the tourists, right? I used to have a... With the paid for house. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So how do you deal with the guys who's giving it to have with the paid for house that's right yeah so how do you deal

with the guys just giving it to you all the time i just stay focused i mean we're on our own little journey you know it's not about what they have or what we can have you know with debts what we can afford what we can live with so i know you make silicone chips if you can bottle what you just said and sell it you will be a trillionaire okay good for you man yeah this idea that it's like none of their business okay this is me and her i'm just i'm getting out of debt and whatever they want to do is okay it's just i'm telling you man one of the keys to becoming wealthy is you quit caring what other people think i'm just saying one of the keys to winning earth is what you just said so good for you man wow way to go. Absolutely incredible. So what is the key to staying? You guys are like

preventative medicine, mainly. You almost are completely stayed out of that and getting out of that. What's the big key? Definitely staying focused on your joint goal. We wouldn't have been able to do it if the other person wasn't on board definitely making sure that you're in alignment with each other and you have the same goals and the same passion to live you know your life later on um you know without debt and again like he said with contentment with what we have so you had rent before yeah and now you have no payments in the world exactly have you got that one check yet when you don't owe anybody anything and you just stare at your own money yeah we paid it off in september

so we've been living that way a little while how does that feel yeah it feels great it's nice yeah it's been great to go on vacation and not really worry you know we have a budget of course but um not really being concerned you can kind of do anything you want to do. Yeah. I mean, life is pretty good. How did y'all grow up with money? I was terrible with money. I, you know, I've worked this job for over 12 years, but it was just paycheck to paycheck,

spend all I can, take a lot of vacations, or, you know, go to a casino, whatever. Yeah. I grew up with, I forget the way Rachel phrases it, but money was not a hot topic. It wasn't a good thing to really bring up. So that's probably why I want to make sure that we're secure and our future children and our daughter is safe. So if it was brought up, it was explosive. Exactly. So if it was brought up, it was explosive. Exactly, yeah. So when you think about your childhood, and you look at that beautiful little girl, what's it feel like to know we have just done a 180 on her trajectory?

It feels great. I keep trying to tell them, like, we could pay for her first house, you know, when she gets married or at least help out a lot with it so that maybe they don't ever have a mortgage and our grandchildren may not have a mortgage. I had a friend of mine did that. He made the kids sign a letter promising they would never borrow a dime, and he'd give them a house.

Yeah. And he said they're millionaires by the time they were 20. Right. I mean 25, right? Not 20, but 25. And it's just pretty incredible. Yeah. Wow!

You guys are cool! Cool! Love it! We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you, number one bestseller. That is the next chapter in your story for sure. If you're not there yet, you'll be there soon. And, of course, a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away and disrupt someone, cause a holy ruckus with that. You probably got somebody in mind needs to read that.

That ought to go do what you guys have done. All right. Well, let's get the young lady into the picture. And what's her name and how old is she? Ralin and she is 10 months 10 months oh look oh and janelle didn't want to hand her over to no one just keep over look at that i was bouncing her on her knee that was so cute so cute well done steven and melissa and raylin Ohio, $55,000 paid off in seven months. Oh, by the way, that was their house. They're 100% debt-free at 29 and 31 years old, making $140 a year.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah. I love it! Oh, baby, that is awesome. Man, their future is bright.

I remember, I mean, I just remember when Josephine was that little. Oh, my goodness, watching them hold their baby. Yeah, it's cute. It goes so fast, and you guys have just changed her existence, and she doesn't even know. The level of stress that's not in their house and will never be in their house because the number one thing people fight about, the number one stress point in marriage, the number one cause of divorce, money fights, money problems, money stresses. And that daughter is going to never feel it. That daughter, when she goes to elementary school and middle school high school she's got two parents who

are like we don't care what people think this is who we are and she's gonna be firmly rooted in all aspects of her identity man that's unbelievable now you're setting up you're setting up a whole winning thing here that is way beyond just paying off the house well done well done well done wow they're heroes man rock stars I'm so proud of them. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Drake is with us in Kansas City. Hi, Drake. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, pretty much I was lucky enough to live with the best dad anybody could ever ask for. Best friend growing up, all that. Long story short, he passed away a few years ago and left me a pretty good chunk of money. It's in a trust fund right now. I won't see any of it until I'm 25 years old. I'm a college student right now.

I'm 22, so I've got about three years left to go. Basically, I have a few ideas of kind of what I should do and how I should save it. Uh, investments like real estate and stuff like that down the road. Um, but pretty much I just wanted to see kind of, if you were me or if you were in my shoes, what, what were, what would be some things you would do with a big chunk like this? How much is it? Um, I've got about 550,000 in 401k,k uh and then about 438 in calf and i've got about 18 18 000 of my own right now i have access to okay

and you're 22 how old was he? He was 53 when he passed away. Wow. What happened? Yeah. Sadly, it was a terminal disease, Lou Gehrig's disease. Oh, no. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Pretty rough. Sorry for what you've been through. I appreciate that. A couple of things. More than anything, you just need some principles to guide you. Instead of specific tactics, let me give you some principles. Number one principle, go slow. There's no reason to be fast.

Number two, don't put money in anything you don't understand. Just because somebody says it, they know this or they know that or you read an article on the internet god help you don't do that um or because even dave ramsey said to do it don't do it you don't put money in something unless you understand it if you understand it you can learn from people like me to where you understand it then you can go forward but just because it's shiny and flashy and cool and the cool kids are all doing it does not mean you put money in it as a matter of fact that usually means you don't um the other thing you can remember is this having studied wealthy people for the past 30 years i find that their investing strategies are by and large very boring they're not super uber sophisticated

they don't do uh you know limited family partnership double backflips there's no weird stuff all these things you hear that the rich have secrets they really don't they go slow they know what they put money in they understand it They don't put money in something unless they understand it, and therefore they don't lose it, and it generally makes some money. But they're not trying to hit the home run every time. They're just trying to make money on their money, just steady. Right. And so it doesn't matter what you put money in as long as you understand it

and you know what it is and you do it. So I know a lot about real estate i grew up in the real estate business my parents were in the business when i was a kid i got my license when i turned 18 i'm very very comfortable with real estate consequently i have a bunch of it okay right but someone who's scared to death and has never done it or never dealt with a tenant you would want to go super super slow test it a it a little bit, test it a little bit, test it a little bit. It's second nature for me, though. Okay?

Right. Same thing with mutual funds. I really do not have any investments personally except mutual funds and real estate. That's all I have. Because I got really comfortable with it. It doesn't have to be sexy or cool. If the cool kids don't like it, I don't really care. I'm not investing for them.

Right. Dave Ramsey doesn't understand. Dave Ramsey's got several hundred million dollars. Dave Ramsey understands something. Okay? Right. So, you know, that's just, you know, that's, but that's what I find when I talk to, you know, the person you're talking to, if they've got a little gray hair, it's probably a good idea.

Because I was young and rich and lost everything. I didn't want his opinion when I started surveying people about how money works. Because he was an idiot. He lost everything. That's me I'm talking about. But I did high leverage, get rich quick real estate. And it bit me in the butt. Because I violated a lot of common sense rules.

So all of that to say, do that. The last thing I'll tell you is this, in the multitude of counsel, there is safety. And so if I were a 25-year-old millionaire, sudden millionaire, I would build a board of directors for my life. Not that tells me what to do, board of advisors i'd have a high quality insurance broker an estate planner a tax attorney an investment broker all that i can call and speak to about taxes about insurance about real estate a good real estate person i'd have a little collection of people that i you don't necessarily have to call them all together at any time but they need to um they're there to advise you with the heart of a teacher they're not there to tell you what to do uh they're not there to be arrogant and act like they have their god's gift to whatever um

the uh if you get if you sense that arrogance run from them uh but get some teachers in your corner because you have to go slow and you have to invest only in things you don't understand. The one thing I'd add, Dave, is I didn't understand this until I got older and started having money. Don't use this money to leverage this money to go get some more. The number of folks who said, hey, you want to put 10 in on this or 25 in on this or, hey, we're all going in to buy this apartment. you want to put 10 in on this or 25 in on this or hey we're all

going in to buy this apartment you want to put 15 on this they they like me as a friend but what they really want is my money to make their picture of what they want to do come true and it's easy to take that money and think you can parse it out and make a bunch of people happy and make a bunch of money over it you end up spreading it all out and you end up wait you can lose that money quick yeah i the only ship on sale is a partnership i'm not in any partnerships i own it or i'm not in it it's okay and that means i got lots of friends that do all kinds of stuff like that but i don't i don't do it i'm just my life is low drama very low drama it's just downright boring you know and i kind of like it that way. That's right. It was intentional. Max is in Canada.

Hey, Max. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me try again. There he is. Max is in Canada. What's up, Max? Hi, how are you doing, sir? Great.

How can we help? Great. I'm going to try and be as straight and transparent as I possibly can. I'll just give you a little overview first. Right now, I'm just finishing up my last year of university. I'm graduating this May. I have enough funds to be able to pay off my student loans, which I've done, as well as $10,000 for my initial starting emergency fund, I guess, for six months.

Way to go. Yeah, the one thing I wanted to throw in, too, is I read Ken's Proximity Principle book this summer, and it was an absolute game-changer. So if there's any other university students watching or anything, I'd highly recommend that book. My question for you today is I've been able to land a full-time job that I'm going to be starting this summer after graduation. The company currently does not offer anything in terms of retirement matching. And I'm kind of looking at my different retirement options. I know that you recommend about 15%. So I'm looking here in Canada, we have a TFSA, which is similar to a Roth IRA, but that's not a traditional retirement

account. How this one works is I can put in $6,000 per year and that money grows tax-free. I'm wondering when it comes to retirement, would it make more sense to max that out first before putting money into a traditional retirement account. We tell folks stateside to do Roth before they do traditional because it grows tax-free. And if I'm understanding what you just presented to me, I'm not an expert on Canadian retirement plans, okay? But if I understand what you just said, this is more of a Roth at $6,000 and it grows tax-free. The traditional grows after-tax. I mean, it's a pre-tax investment and it grows with taxation on the whole account, correct?

Yes, sir. Okay, so it's just like our planned state side, the way you described it. It's a traditional versus a Roth. So we always tell people to do a Roth first because the tax-free growth is going to amount to a whole lot more than, obviously, the after-tax effect of the other account. So pretty simple. Sounds like you really got this on the run, Max. Way to go. And to all the parents out there with little kids, I want you to imagine 15, 20 years from now, your kids in the last semester of college do you want them to have a conversation like he just had how do i start investing my money after i've got my emergency fund or do you want them to

be making a phone call saying how do i pay all the student loan stuff off and that starts when your kids are really young with some decisions you make conversations you have as parents have those conversations have a plan there we There we go. Nicely done. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.