The Ramsey Show - App - I Make $800,000 a Year...When Can I Self-Insure? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting this hour off is going to be Daphne in Virginia. Hi, Daphne. How

are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for taking our call, and feel free to traipse throughout our entire house with your muddy shoes. Well, thanks. Hopefully I don't need to. How can I help? Oh, you need to. Well, I am disabled. My husband is the only one that works in the house. And for 31 years, we've been struggling.

And he got a much better-paying job. I thought, there's no way we can't make it now, but we are still being overdrawn before every pay period. And I'm just at my wit's end because I've made a budget, I've crunched numbers, and I'm not only a saver, I'm a tightwad. So what does he make? He makes $2,680 a month. Now that's after taxes and deductions. Okay. And what do you have coming in on disability? I don't have anything because I'm not eligible anymore based on his income. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry, no Medicaid as well. Okay. And what is the

nature of your disability? I'm legally blind and I have multiple sclerosis, but I'm willing to work. I mean, I would give my teeth to work. I want to help out, but we're out in the middle of nowhere. I'm thinking if we'd moved to Tennessee where my son is, I could clean houses and make $100 a day for five days. That's $500 extra a week. And he could get a job. He's a communications officer. And how old are you guys? I'm 51 and he's 55.

What keeps you from doing that where you are? We're out in the middle of nowhere. The Department for the Blind and Vision Impaired says that I'm too far out to have a job. If I was closer into town, that maybe, just maybe, you know, I could get a job online, medical transcription or things of that nature. I used to be a custodian until the MS hit me. Well, MS is obviously very debilitating or can be, so I'm not sure how you're going to clean houses if you can't do the janitorial.

Oh, I'm pretty stubborn. I'm very stubborn, and I can do it. I just need the opportunity to do it. So the bills that you have now total more than $2,680 a month? Yes, I did a budget. And after the budget, we have $13 a month to nothing. So what are the big items in the budget? How much is your rent?

We don't pay rent. Our house is free and clear. We got it on a free foreclosure. Okay, that's wonderful. What is it worth? Our house as is right now is $225. Okay, excellent. That's wonderful all right and so what are what

are your what are your big items in your budget then the big items is his car is 364 a month which he owes 17 000 on and uh his student loan which he wanted to go to school and i didn't have the heart to tell him he was too old um i'm paying he's in default but i'm paying 131 a month it's 95 000 those are the two big things okay well 95 95 and 360 do not take all of 2600 so obviously you got to buy food and you have to buy lights and water. Where's the rest of this going? Okay, I'll read it down to you real quick. 364 car, 300 electric, auto insurance 192, home insurance 174,

phone and Internet 119, cell phone $90 for two, my husband and son, taxes $75 a month, gas $200 a month, toll $70 for two, my husband and son. Tax is $75 a month. Gas, $200 a month. Toll, $70 a month. Grocery, $600 a month. Credit cards, $120 a month. My life insurance, $40 a month. $131 for student loan, and garbage is $35. Gotcha. Oh, and our medical bills are $107.00, and that's every month.

Gotcha. Okay. Unless your income comes up, he would need to sell this car because the car doesn't fit. We are absolutely talking about that right now. Yeah. And we are selling everything. It's not bolted down. We've already put it on Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, and another site.

Did he not complete the school when he started? No, he blesses his heart. My husband has the vision. He doesn't have the endurance. I have no vision, but I have the endurance. We enable each other. Okay. Well, the move into an area where you can do some things to get your incomes up would obviously help you. Getting rid of the car would obviously help you. You've done a great job laying out the budget. So nothing I heard on there sounded abusive or completely out of line. There wasn't anything there to pick on other than, by far,

your biggest bill is a $360 car payment on a $17,000 car for a guy that makes $35,000 a year. And that just doesn't fit. This car does not fit in this income structure. Now, if he's doing something to get his income up and, you know, that kind of stuff, then that's great. We can talk about different things then, but he needs to double his income if we're talking about keeping this car. Otherwise, it needs to go. So those are some things you can do, but you're doing pretty well on a very low income is where it amounts to. And you just made a couple of mistakes with the credit cards and the student loans and the car.

And it's going to take a while to dig through those. But if you can get rid of those credit cards and this car payment, it'll go a long way towards straightening this around. And then from there, let's talk about what we can do to get incomes up in the household with career changes and reasonable ideas. You've got some challenges, no doubt about it, kiddo. If I can help you, you call me anytime. That's what we're here for. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

You guys jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call. So there's two sides to this equation. It's a fairly simple equation on your budget. The income side and the outgo side. Most people that call this show, it's an outgo problem, but sometimes, like Daphne, it's an income problem. And she's got some legitimate things limiting her ability to create an income. It's not a lack of, she's not lazy. It's not a lack of being willing to work. It's a lack of finding something that fits in the disabilities

and the challenges that she's got. So it's a process. But all of us can look and say, gosh, 10 years from now, what can I be doing where I made twice as much money? What have I got to do? What has to be true that's not true today? Do I need to take a class? Do I need to get a degree?

Do I need to be in an apprentice program? Do I need to read every book I Do I need to get a degree? Do I need to be in an apprentice program? Do I need to read every book I can get my hands on on the subject? Probably. What is it you want to do with your life? And what can you do to create income in the process? Sometimes that's a bigger part of the equation. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Let's talk about low interest rates, baby. I know right now that Churchill Mortgage can get qualified buyers into a 15-year conventional loan for well under 4%

with no discount points or no hidden fees. Listen, if you're even thinking about buying a home or refinancing, do it right now. These rates are incredibly low. Here's what I'd like you to do. Take 10 minutes and call Churchill Mortgage and see what you can qualify for. So even if you have to get creative and buy something further out of the city to get something you can afford, now's the time to make the move. That's why I'm sending you to Churchill Mortgage. I trust them to look out for you and your budget.

Don't miss this opportunity. You can secure these low rates now for up to 90 days through Churchill Mortgage. Go to churchillmortgage.com or call 888-LOAN-200. That's churchillmortgage.com. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Our question of the day comes from blinds.com. Find out for yourself why they are the number one online retailer of custom window coverings.

You get free samples there free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey that's blinds.com today's question is from dana in michigan dave i'm working on baby step two my debt snowball i should be done by 2021 making 6060,000 with $31,000 in debt. My dog has recently completed chemotherapy for lymphoma and is in remission. With the type of cancer he has, it will come back, and he will need chemotherapy again to help him fight through. This round of chemo has cost roughly $10,000 from start to finish.

My question is in regards to chemotherapy in the future. We are unsure how long his remission will last. How should I plan for future chemotherapy costs considering lymphoma is not curable? We'll come back, and I have quite a bit of debt left. Should I create a sinking fund for chemotherapy or plan to cash flow his lymphoma if it comes back. Why did you guys give me this question? You know I'm going to get so much hate mail. Baby girl, I love my dogs.

I cry when i bury them i've had a dog in my life as long as i can remember and sometimes more than one the chances i'm a multi-millionaire and the chances of me spending 20 or 30 thousand dollars to keep a dog alive with chemotherapy while it's suffering from my selfish need to keep the dog alive are zero. It's not fair to the dog. It's financially irresponsible. It's not a human. It's a dog.

It's a human. You spend the money and you figure it out. There is a differentiation between our pets and our family members, even though they feel like family members and we love them deeply and we cry. But you're not going to like my answer. I would not do another round of chemotherapy for $10,000. I would send him to heaven and we know that all dogs go to heaven. We're not sure about cats, but all dogs go to heaven. You guys get so mad at me. He doesn't understand what kind of a man we just are.

Listen, it's a dog. My Shih Tzu gets in my lap while I'm drinking coffee at 5 a.m every morning and looks me in the face and i talk to it baby talk as if it can understand anything i'm saying because it's dumber than a rock really but it's a sweet little loving dog and i love that little dog and i will cry when that little dog is gone i will cry like a 13 year old girl. I will cry, but I will not spend $10,000 to keep Rufus alive. He's a dog. Now, all you folks that are think I'm out of line, you just send me the hate mail and I'll burn it for kindling like I do the rest of you idiots when you do that kind of stuff.

So you just, you have to have, you know, if you told me this was your child, I would just say stop everything and pile up money for your child, but it's not. It's not. So, and you cannot accuse me of not being an animal lover. You cannot accuse me of not understanding the love that people have for their dogs because I am and I do. That's not the point. The point is it's a dog and I'm just not doing that. Um, plus the dogs, the dog is suffering. I mean, you ever seen a person go through chemo? It's hell. It's hell.

And, you know, it's awful. But we're trying to keep a human being alive there. And that is a different situation. It really is different. I know some people have gotten confused about that in this culture. But I'm an old guy, and i come from back in the old days when we had common sense about stuff open phones at 888-825-5225 david is with us in georgia hi david how are you hey dave how you doing today better than i deserve what's I've got a question for you. I found myself facing a limited tax debt. I contacted a tax firm to negotiate with the IRS on my behalf, and I

often compromise. I'm pleased with what I think would be the results. There are no guarantees, obviously. What is your take on these firms that negotiate with the IRS, their success rate? And they were looking at a fairly large figure to settle this out, but it's a fairly large number. If they can get it done, I'd be most pleased. But certainly, in two, what's the average compensation for a firm like this to do that kind of work? I would only use a tax attorney to do that. I would not use a firm that specializes in it. I would get an attorney that has a specialization in tax practice that does OICs.

I think if you'll do some investigation into OICs separate from the information this firm is giving you, you're going to find that they almost never go through. We have had customers, clients that we're counseling on finances that are in deep, deep doo-doo on all kinds of things, and we negotiate with all the different creditors with them, for them, and we've worked with the IRS on OICs hundreds and hundreds of times. The rules on OIC, an offering compromise, in order for the government to forgive federal income tax that you owe, you basically have to prove pauper status,

that you have no assets and no earning ability because they're going to take your future earning ability or they're going to take all your assets before they talk about discounting your tax bill, $1. And so consequently, very few people are in that situation that they have absolutely no assets and no earning ability. There's a few times I've seen them do it, but I would say you have less than a 5% chance of getting this tax bill reduced.

And if you have a substantial income or if you have assets, if you have equity in your home, forget it. Forget it. They're not doing it. You're being led down a primrose path. They're getting ready to take your money by this firm promising you something they cannot deliver. And for sure, don't lie to the IRS. That would be called fraud, and that's go to jail, do not pass go stuff right there. So you tell the truth, and if you have assets or you have earning abilities,

they're just not going to do it. The statute is very clear on that. So do a little bit of research yourself. Talk to a side tax, to an attorney that has a specialization in tax work, and see if they don't confirm what I just told you. And, no, I would not give $10,000 to a firm to try to get my $100,000 tax bill reduced to $50,000 when you make $100,000 a year. It's simply a waste of money.

They're not going to do it. I don't know if those are your numbers. I just made those numbers up, but I wouldn't do it. William is with us in New Jersey. Hi, William. How are you? Hi, Dave. Pleasure to speak to you.

You too. What's up? I'm a first-time caller and recently started listening to you. So I'm calling you because I have a mess with my debt and I'm trying to figure out the best approach. Specifically, I'd like to get out of my lease. First, because it was a very bad and expensive choice. And I have about $37,000 that I could get in the next three to four months.

So I'm wondering how can I leverage this to come out of the lease and just get my debt in order right now? Who is the fleece with? It is with Kia. Okay. So you call Kia and you ask them for the early buyout if you were going to buy the car and own it. That's like an early payoff on a loan. And you compare

that number to what the car would sell for. So if the early buyout is $30,000, the car will sell for $25,000. Then you will need $5,000 to put with the purchasers in purchasers money to get your car paid off. You're upside down in the car you've got to cover the difference and that gets you out of the lease you got to sell the car cover the difference and that money you've got coming in will allow you to do that and then buy you a inexpensive replacement car till you get your other mess cleaned up Business leaders, right now you have the opportunity to take your business to the next level this new year. You can start by hiring the right people to help your business grow. At Ramsey Solutions, we post on LinkedIn Jobs because they are the best at matching the right person with the right job.

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Visit LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey. That's LinkedIn.com slash Ramsey. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Michael is with us in Kansas. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you doing today?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I had a question. So I've been working the plan, I don't know, for a couple months, was able to pay down $1,900 in student loans, realized I got a truck that is a little bit absurd. So working on getting rid of that. But then the other issue I'm having with is a HELOC. So me and my wife bought our house before we were married. So she put it in her name and then we ended up getting married and then we got a HELOC and then we've taken the money and then have upgraded the house. And I'm wondering if it's time to go ahead and refinance and then put the HELOC in the mortgage in the same loan with both of us on the mortgage

now. What is the balance on the HELOC? 35. And what's your household income? After taxes, I think we're right around 85. Okay. And what is the interest rate on your first mortgage? It's around 4.6. Okay. All right. And the balance on your first mortgage is what? $104 right now. Okay.

All right. Generally what we tell folks is to put the second mortgages in baby step two in your debt snowball if they are less than half your annual income, and this is. Go ahead. Sorry. The reason why I was asking is because my wife also has a student loan that's over $50,000. So I was thinking it would speed it up if we were to refinance to 15-year, but that's why I was asking. Yeah, it would.

And it's an okay. You have $50,000 student loan debt, and what other debts do you have other than this? I have the truck, which is $18,000, which I'm getting it clean friday to start putting pictures up selling it and i should break even or make 1500 and then um we've got credit card debt which is around 20k and then um i've got my car which has got 3 000 but i'm getting ready to write a check to pay it off. And then we have her car, which is $15,000. $1,000.

Yeah. Okay. You've got a lot of debt. Yeah, you're telling me about it. How much do you have in savings or investments that are not in retirement? Right now, I've got, between us both, we've got around 4,500 and savings not including our thousand dollars and uh that's what you're gonna use that's what you're gonna use to pay that little car loan off okay yeah but i'm gonna wait till the truck just in case if you know i'm

trying to get rid of it quicker so yeah if i become upside down i have enough to cover that then put the rest in the car agreed that's a good move okay yeah if you want to throw that heloc into a refi that's fine because the first mortgage interest rate is high enough i think you can probably get um you probably save about one percent or maybe a little more you probably get a three and a half three and a quarter 15 year fix with churchillgage right now. And that would pay off the first mortgage and roll the second into it if you've got the equity in the house to do that and put it all on a 15 year fixed. Yeah, I'm probably going to do that just because you're so freaking overwhelmed with other debt. Yeah, it's frustrating. I mean, granted, I'm able to work, so that's a plus.

Yeah. And we've got it worked out to where my wife gets to stay home during the week, and then she makes good enough money on the weekends to make up for it so we don't have to pay for child care. So, I mean, we're doing okay. We're just spending is out of control. But luckily, we put the HELOC into the home, so the home we could sell it today for like $170 if we wanted to.

Yeah, yeah yeah i'm going to go ahead and refinance that get rid of that and the point being you've learned your lesson you're never going back and you know we got to clean up the you know clean up the fifteen thousand dollar car debt the credit cards the student loan debt and that's going to be enough work to do for sure in baby step two yeah i'm with you let Let's do this. Get in touch with Churchill Mortgage. They can help you do that for sure. All right, Mark is with us in Washington. Hi, Mark. How are you?

Great, Gabe. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm looking for some advice on when to cut loose my term life insurance policy. Divorced five years ago, remarried in August. I've got some kids a little ways out from graduating high school, one two-and-a-half years away, one four-and-a-half years away,

and try to figure out how all that fits into things. So just looking for some advice. Well, so your dependents are teenage children and your new wife. Yep. And how much do you have in investments? I've got almost $900 in 401K and mutual funds, and I've got half my house paid off. Okay.

And what's your house worth? $900. Okay. So you owe $450 still. And what's your house worth? $900,000. Okay. So you owe $450,000 still. And what's your household income? $800,000. Okay. $800,000? $800,000. I pay $177,000 in child support and spousal annually. What do you do for a living?

I'm an executive. good for you traveled all over there yeah yeah you're moved up you have done well congratulations yeah okay well i mean with the kind of money you make um the the point is who's going to take care of your i mean is 900k enough to take care of your spouse, this mortgage, and your kids? No. No. It's not. So you're not self-insured.

You know, the bottom line is, I mean, if it creates a $100,000 a year income and they're used to receiving $177,000 over there, now you wouldn't be necessarily that concerned about your former spouse's support, but you would be about your kids. Correct. Yeah, and probably the smaller portion of that $177,000 is child support, because usually child support's not that high. But what would you want to have as a stream of income to your kids

and as a stream of income to your spouse, your current spouse. Correct. How much? Oh, man, so the kids all in are $98,000 right now. You think that took care of them? Nope. No, I've got $150,000, which I didn't include in my net worth. I've got $150,000 saved in college.

So, you know, I guess if i look at it combined between the two kids that is seven years i've got to cover them all in so i'm talking about i'm talking about annual cash flow how much do they need today oh man today right now it's 98 000 okay so call it 100 and how much annual cash flow would your current spouse need if you died today? We've got the house payment. That's $3,500, but I'm planning on having that house paid off in September 2023. You ought to do it sooner than that with the income you've got. That would be nice.

Well, I mean, you make $800,000, dude. It's an easy make 800 question i mean it's probably 150 i mean i'm wearing that all right so let's just let's call it let's call it a quarter million dollars a year all right this supports both of them and you need to get that house paid off quicker than that you make 800 but let's get the you know for today you need they need you need a quarter million dollars coming to them so you just simply multiply that by 10 or 12. So you need two and a half, three million dollars to create, invested an income thrown off of a couple of hundred thousand, right? Yep.

And you've got a million of it. So you need two million in life insurance today. Now, when you get to a point that three million dollars is there then you would not need life insurance or when the kids are grown which might happen before you get to that point uh because they're older i mean when they're when they're off the payroll so to speak and they're on their own if you die i mean you're not gonna be you're not leaving an income to a 25 year old you know? No way. Okay. And so we're going to get them, and you've got college set aside for them, you said.

So if you've got college covered, so when they graduate from high school, you probably have just about exhausted your need to take care of them monthly. Right. Okay. So that's, you know, that's the kind of stuff you know bottom line is do you have enough assets to supply the needs and you don't right now even though these numbers are ridiculously large in all cases congratulations this on the Dave Ramsey Show, we announced the first ever Live Like No One Else cruise

for you guys that are baby step four and beyond. And you guys are so pumped about this. It sold out in 27 days. The cabins were all reserved. This is an epic cruise. Brand new ship with Holland America. Absolutely incredible. All the Ramsey personalities will be with us.

World-class friends of ours like Jeff Foxworthy, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Manit Chauhan, world-class chef. You've seen her on the Food Channel for sure. She's got a bunch of incredible restaurants here in Nashville. And for seven incredible days at sea, we're going to teach, entertain, and have some amazing experiences together. So here's what happens on a cruise. These guys put up a deposit, and they get 100% of their deposit back

if they cancel the reservation by October. Well, things have come up in people's lives. They got deployed. Different things have happened. Somebody in the family was ill, whatever, and we've had people drop out. So there are a few cabins away. We are two months away from departure. It is March 20th, and I'm excited to tell you that a few cabins have opened up,

and you can go if you join us in March. Maybe you were working on your last few debts. Maybe you're finishing up your emergency fund last year when we launched this, and you're like, well, I'll have to catch the next one. I don't have the money right now, and I'm not really at baby step four. But now you're at baby step four. Well, if you're at four and beyond, then, of course, you can pay cash for it, meaning we don't want you to go into debt to do this.

We're not inconsistent in what we teach and what we do. So today's the lucky day. You can actually get on this cruise with me, Chris Hogan, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, Anthony O'Neill, every one of the Ramsey personalities are going to be on there. And so pretty cool stuff, including, well, not including because they're not Ramsey personalities, but we're also going to have Jeff Foxworthy with us, my friend Stephen Curtis Chapman,

and, as I said, Manit Chauhan. So you do not want to miss this. There's a couple of cabins I've opened up. Go to ramseycruise.com right this second, and you can claim one of these last remaining cabins. It is sure to be a debt-free celebration. The entire ship is us, the entire ship. And so it's going to be George Campbell's going with us, looking out here, seeing George sitting here.

Of course, he's going to be there. And so the whole gang will be there, and you're going to get, we're going to have all kinds of events and sessions and classes, and you're going to be able to go to Turks and Caicos. We're going to be in San Juan. We're going to be in St. Thomas. We're going to be on the private island in Bahamas. It's an incredible cruise.

And really nice, brand-new ship. One-year-old. Just came out this time last year. So, again, go to ramseycruise.com right now there's a handful of cabins we want this thing to be completely i mean i don't mean just sold out where we took your money i mean we want it full we want someone in every room we want to have you there all right let's go to sarah in texas Sarah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Hi. Nice to you and Larry Burkett. My husband and I are in Baby Step 7 Heaven. Good for you. Well done. Yeah. Boy, we are enjoying it here. So I retired early from a long corporate career to pursue my dream to open a retreat house

for quilting and crafting groups out in the country where we live on our family ranch. And we're going to build a three bedroom house on the property for the retreat later this year. And, um, I'm estimating it'll take about $400,000 to build it. And I'd like to do this debt-free and take it out of my retirement funds. And I'm a glass-half-full gal, but my husband is a glass-half-empty guy, and he's concerned about taking that much out of our retirement funds. And he respects your opinion, so here we are. Okay. So how old are you guys well in two months i'll be 59 and a half

just like you okay all right and he's a little younger all right so you can't take any of his out but you could take some of yours out what is your total nest egg 1.4 million. Okay. All right. You know, I would put this in the category of, say, do I buy a ski house or a beach house or a lake house? Because it's not really going to generate any income. So do you spend, what do we got here, 25%, 30% of your net worth on a piece of real estate that is a toy? Because it's not generating income or not going to generate substantial income. Well, I've done some homework and did a pro forma income statement in a class I took on entrepreneurship. And even if I was at 50% capacity, which is pretty standard for that market, my net profit would be $60,000 a year.

And we only live on $70,000 a year. You're not going to live in the property then? No, we live on another house on that same property. Okay. Well, this is a higher risk type of real estate. I mean, this is a weekly rental, whatever, retreat center situation. So it's not a, and from what you described, it's out in the country, quote, unquote, in a rural setting, right? Yeah, we're about 15 minutes away from some larger towns

where there are a lot of quilters and crafters. And people. Well, I don't know what the market is for something like you're doing i mean you you probably know more about it than i do uh but i kind of think i i would do this planning to make very little money on it and if i was okay with that i would go forward but if you have to make sixty thousand dollars for this to be okay, and then you don't make it, you're not going to be okay with it. That's probably a no-go. Now, can you take $400,000 if you have $1.4 million and set it in the middle of the floor and set it afire and still survive? Absolutely. You'll be fine. And you're not doing that, so you're actually going to increase the value of your property

because you're building a fixed asset on it, and hopefully you'll create some monthly income to justify this. And so, yeah, I'm probably going to go ahead and do it, but it's a pretty substantial portion. You know, if you told me it was half of your net worth, I'd tell you not to do it. Yeah. um you know if you told me it was half of your net worth i tell you not to do it yeah well and in the future my husband will get a military reserve income retirement income of about a thousand a month and then if social security is still around um we'd be getting that too yeah you've got some other stuff coming i understand

but i mean we're i'm just looking at your 1.4 and you're using 400 of it and the return that and i'm not as sure about the return you're going to get on that as you are so i'm just pretending for a second here you're going to get no return on it you can do it you can do it it's uh it's a little scary it's a little scary but it doesn't it doesn't put you completely at risk it's not over in the dumb column it's not over there where you would say just don't do this because you're going to get yourself in trouble it's not like that i think you can do it and uh it's obviously something you've thought through and you've dreamed about and it's going to bring you joy and if you can stay

there with it and he can stay there with it then emotionally then i would go ahead i would not go ahead if you guys cannot come into agreement about this thing or i would not go ahead if the only way you're going to feel good about he's going to feel good about it is if you make 60 70 thousand dollars a year on this thing because you might not that's That's all I'm saying. Again, I don't know how to analyze the market the way you have. It's hard for me to visualize that there's that many people are going to rent a retreat house to do quilting. But I don't do quilting. I'm not in that world, so I can't tell you how that works.

It's way outside of my – I'm not your focus group, obviously, for sure. But maybe that will help you. Maybe that will help you and get you going. Thank you for the call. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, and Kelly Daniels, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we will be back.

Hey, guys, this is Blake Thompson, senior executive producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 15 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen to one of over 600 radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.