The Ramsey Show - App - I Think He's Controlling The Money So I Can't Leave... (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Again, it can be about your money, it can be about your career, your relationships, your life, and we are here to help you sort out the problems, the thoughts that you have, and hopefully get you to a good conclusion. So starting us off is Danielle in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Danielle, welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, Jade. I first have to say I'm so incredibly

thankful for the opportunity to speak to my dream team. So thank you for taking my call. Are we your dream team, Danielle? I love that. We love you. You're sweet. That's the end of this call. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. How can we help? Yes, we took some notes just so I don't forget to kind of paint the full picture, but here's the situation. So my husband and I are currently on baby steps four, five, and six, and we agreed that you both would be the voice or reason for our current dilemma. Okay. So there is a home in our neighborhood about six doors down that the sellers approached us about. They knew that we were looking to potentially move and get a bigger home, and we love our neighborhood.

So it kind of all worked out. This was about six months ago that they approached us, and when they approached us, we stopped throwing money at our current mortgage and started stashing away cash. So we have about $100,000 in savings right now. So I'll give you, oh, sorry, go ahead. Nope. Just saying good job. Oh, thank you. So I'll give you the numbers in a moment, but our question is, is this transaction Dave approved? And if so, what's the best way about going about it? So our current home is worth about $450,000 and we have about 110 left on our mortgage at 2% interest rate.

We're looking to purchase the new home for $650,000 with, of course, today's interest rate. The caveat is that the sellers are looking to close by May 1 and then they want to remain in the home for 60 days thereafter. So we would obviously have to stay in our current residence prior to moving and we couldn't sell our home and then roll that equity into a down payment like we originally had hoped, putting us in a similar position as we currently are and allowing us to kind of pay off our mortgage in about a year or so. So you'd have to have, you'd have to carry two mortgages at once to make this deal work? Correct. My answer is no. Your answer is no based on based on that alone like i don't i

wouldn't even need to hear any more numbers even if you could easily afford this next house blah blah blah because they have to close may 1 and because your deal has to be contingent on the sale of your house and that's not i mean you could put your house on the market and see if it closes by May 1, and if it does, now we can talk, but there's no way I would carry two mortgages. Okay, and that's my concern because we're so close to being done with our current mortgage that I just don't want us to be in a position where we're... Well, my question is, Danielle, you said you have $100,000 saved, correct? We do, yes. Okay, and you have $110,000 left correct we do yes okay and you have a hundred and

ten thousand left on your home correct correct so part of me is like just pay off your house loving it so that's been my feeling and I've just been very torn because the home is a little bit bigger it's a nicer property there's a pool but on the second home still looking on the second home and so i'm but we're still looking to cash flow our kids colleges and retire with dignity so that's why i'm calling so now the question is is it better to have a home that's a little bit smaller that's completely paid for and it's yours or is it better to upgrade and possibly have a little bit more of a mortgage again. Correct. How much do you guys make a year? About $500.

Okay, so if I'm getting this math correct, Danielle, if I was in your shoes, so we're in February right now. You got March, April, May. You got three months, plus they are needing to stay in the house another two months. Is that right? Really two months you've got, because you've got all of March, all of April,

but they've got to close May 1st. That's true.'s true march april may and then they're going to be in the house june and july correct correct so you have five months okay so what i would do danielle i would pay off your house like i would take that money i would pay it off and then you have five months to just continue to save and have some money stashed away and then when you go to move in move in and that means the equity ideally you would sell your house at 450 for what it's uh i mean what yeah what could you sell your house for about 450. Yeah. So then you have a $200,000 mortgage making $500,000. I mean, listen, it sounds good, but it is hard to go from no home payment to no mortgage to mortgage. Yeah, but a $200,000 making $500,000, you're going to have it paid off in a year. If you guys lived on $300,000, you have your house paid off in a year. Yes, you have your house paid off in a year. Yes, you have your house paid off in

a year. The steps in doing it, I'm worried about carrying the two mortgages, but it sounds like you're saying- You wouldn't have to. Yeah, I would pay it off. Got it. Okay. Yep. But again, and what Jade said earlier is a really valid, valid point though, is to have this discussion of like, what do we want, right? Because I can tell you, my in-laws, they actually upgraded house when they were empty nesters and they live on land now, they have a bigger home. So when we all go in, it's wonderful and they love it. They love it. And so they did the opposite of downsizing

like some people do and it worked for them. That's what they valued and that's great, right? Where other people are like, oh no, I don't want this much work for a house. So I'm gonna go for them that's what they valued and that's great right where other people are like oh no i don't want this much work for a house so i'm gonna go down and that's what they value right so as long as the numbers work which in this plan they would i wouldn't want to carry two mortgages i would go ahead and just pay off your house um and then sell it and then yeah you'll have golly oh i mean you'll yeah throw all that at the house yeah and then you have two hundred thousand dollars that you owe at that point so let's go back and clarify one little piece because you said she said the neighbors have to close by may 1st right so even if you pay even if you pay off your

house let's say you pay your house off and you decide yeah i do want to get the house that six stores down she'd still have to sell within before closing period in order to get even if she bought her current house outright you'd still have to close on that to get the cash to buy the next house correct so i don't i still don't want you think hey this house is paid for we can still do this deal and take the mortgage on the other one even though you have a house that's paid off. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like either way, you've still got to be nervous. Whether you pay off the house or not, you've still got to sell it and close and get that money before you make the next house. And then what do we do between May and that 60 days where they remain in there? I guess we would have to have the same contingency in our sale yes yeah the dominoes would have to fall pretty perfectly yeah and one lender mentioned a HELOC and I was even worried about that's what I'm saying I don't want you to feel desperate about this yes like you're in a great situation and I don't want yeah your want to get this house to cause desperation and to cause that to make you to make a bad decision when you're in such a great financial situation.

Yeah. I appreciate that very much. Yeah. Oh, Danielle. Yes. I'm so glad that you called. I know if the dominoes fell perfectly, it's a beautiful story. Yeah.

Oh, gosh, we get what we've wanted. And, you know, we're not in a crazy financial situation in that point. We can still, you know, pay it off. Yeah. But the dominoes have to fall really well. The average days on market right now is what might make or break this. Yes, that's fair. That's totally fair.

So great. Well, thanks for the call, Danielle. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Take your home's efficiency and style to the next level with convenient solutions from Shelf Genie, Window Genie, and Glass Doctor. Visit Neighborly.com slash Ramsey to schedule your home service professionals near you. Love this. All right.

Today's question comes from Rob in South Carolina. He says, you often warn listeners to beware of lifestyle creep. I totally get that as a concept, but I think I may have the opposite problem. We were doing well and our baby steps multi-millionaires. Very good. But we could have better options for our future if we cut back even more on our expenses. Or maybe I feel that way because for many years I spent way beyond my means and was a totally, just totally stupid with our money

and I'm afraid I will relapse. How can I get over this mental block and start enjoying our success? Wow. I love this. Listen, I think I can relate to this a little bit. You know, when you've kind of screwed up with your money and you've had to go back and fix all these mistakes and you feel like you've lost time and now you've done all of that work, you're on the flip side. It can be hard to turn that switch off and say, OK, let's enjoy some of the fruit of our labor and let's enjoy the lifestyle that we've created because of our smart behavior. And there's part of this here where I do feel like you need to trust yourself

and trust that you've changed your behavior and that you've become a different person and live your life in a state of confidence as opposed to in a state of fear. Because I think if you're doing all of these financial choices with fear as your driver and fear as your motivator and kind of like penance as the driver, I think that it turns something that's

supposed to be really beautiful and really great into something that's kind of negative and I don't deserve it. And, you know, and it kind of sucks the joy right out of it. And the whole purpose of doing this is the later. It's the so that and there's joy on the other side of that. And I really want you to experience that in the right measure. What would you say, Rachel? Yeah, well, you know, with money, we always talk about giving, saving and spending.

And you want to do all three for a reason. Number one, generosity. I mean, it brings joy to your life unlike anything else. And that's why we always say live like no one else. Later, you can live and give like no one else. So that giving is so crucial. I think saving is so crucial so that you have a future so that you do have that security and you're being wise. You're changing your family tree. There's a legacy that's changing a mindset with delayed gratification. And that's important. And honestly, Jade, I think the spending aspect is not just to enjoy your life, but it also

is so that money doesn't have this handle on you, this hold on you. There is something about opening your hand. Generosity can be that visual as well, but also letting some money go because you can almost become this hoarder and there's a level of unhealthy control in that extreme that is just as damaging

as someone that just goes and spends everything. And so, and what I think is so important is keeping money at its proper place. And I think in our world today, it becomes something that we put our identity in, we put our worth in. It's become so elevated, almost like a god that we worship so much. And when that's the case, that's an unhealthy view of money. Money should be down below. It's a tool to create a life that you love.

That's what it's there for. It's not a thing to worship or to run after. It is to create peace in your life, give you margin and be able to help people. And so in order to do that, I think that some savers to an extreme can it can be held up here. Yeah, it can be this level of I'm putting it in an improper place. So I think spending, you have to build another muscle that actually gives you some freedom in a weird way. I'm saying this as a spender. I agree with what you're saying. Yeah, there is something there that is so powerful. And so from a tactical sense, we talked to a lot of people, Rob, that have the same situation, a lot of people that have

gotten out of debt, you know, and even said that you felt this even in your journey. Gotta switch the off button. Yeah. And so, you know, create a budget and, you know, a said that you felt this even in your journey yeah and so you know create a budget and you know a little bit at a time month after month up just a little bit you don't have to go extreme but practice spending i mean practice forcing yourself to go out to a great dinner yes and go and spend some money and go have a great dinner get two appetizers like go and enjoy right you can start small yeah and and you'll start to see okay i can again it doesn't have a great dinner, get two appetizers, like go and enjoy, right? You can start small. Yeah. And you'll start to see, okay, I can, again, it doesn't have a hold on me. And it's not lifestyle

creep. Here's the way that I define lifestyle creep, even in my own life. And Rachel, you speak into this too. If you're doing the things that make you a financially responsible adult, right? You've paid off your debt. You're budgeting every single month. You're carrying the proper insurances. You're investing for your future. And like Rachel said, you're practicing generosity and you're challenging yourself on generosity. If you're doing all of those things and you still have money left over to increase your lifestyle, it's not lifestyle creep. It's just you're doing good. Like you're just doing well and there's nothing bad about that. And you should be able to increase and creep up your lifestyle if you're just doing well and there's nothing bad about that and you should be able to increase and creep up your lifestyle if you're increasingly doing well and you're doing those what i call five

pillars of financial you know personal finance yeah that's kind of the if you're doing right then you get to do right like you get to do more so that's so good hope that hope that helps you rob so great all right let's go to the phones and we we have Devin in San Antonio. Hi, Devin. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help? My question is, should I stop putting into my retirement fund for the next year or two to completely get us paid off all our debt? How much debt do you guys have left?

So we have $43,000. Okay. Is it consumer debt or mortgage debt? Consumer debt. We have mortgage debt, but we are actually in the process of downsizing our house as well. Okay, great. How much do you guys make a year?

So we make around $110,000. Okay. And if you stopped contributing, how much have you calculated how much you will have back in your paycheck? Yes. So depending on my overtime due to working as a firefighter, it could be around $700,000 to $1,000 a month. Wow. Nice. Amazing.

Well, Devin, yeah, I mean, that's exactly what I would do I mean honestly regardless of the numbers I was just more curious to see how quickly that gets you out of debt but yeah whenever you are getting out of consumer debt pausing retirements when we're saying pausing you guys because you'll press play later don't worry but you pause retirement because any extra income you can have in your paycheck and again that includesusing retirement. If you got a huge tax refund this year, go and change your exemptions to get some cash back in your paycheck. That's overtime, that's cutting expenses,

whatever it is to have more margin to throw out the debt is what we are focused on. It's the number one thing. And so investing is part of that, which it freaks a lot of people out, Jay, when they hear the math and they're like, oh my gosh, but my 401k, that's free money. They're going to match it. But there's something about this focus intensity and getting out of debt that much faster

that then you're going to up your retirement savings to 15% of your income, which a lot of people don't even do that. Plus the match. Yes, yes, yeah. So a lot of people, they're doing 4% or 5% of their income. So you're going to be able to definitely catch up and be fine financially, even if you pause for a year, which is what we would recommend. Okay, perfect.

Because that was my biggest thing. My wife was 100% due, and I was just a little hesitant to do it just yet. What causes you to be hesitant? Just my biggest thing was okay to catching up. And she was telling me that, hey, in the end, you're going to be putting that extra in and you'll catch up within a year or two. Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. Yeah. And that's a lot of people's, you know, fear. And the great thing is, Devin, I mean, it's one year.

How old are you guys? We're 30. Oh, yeah. You got plenty of time, Devin. You're good. I'm on your wife's team on this one. I am, too. And, you know, it's kind of funny. You have to you have to look at it. You almost have to be fair, intellectually fair, if you will, because a lot of people are nervous to stop contributions because they're like, I don't want to miss out on this money. I don't want to miss out on this money. But I'm like, as long as you're making debt payments, you're missing out on all of that money that you're putting in payments every month. Like we have to think about it in both settings. You're either missing out on money in the form of car payments and student loan payments.

And for most people, that's thousands of dollars every month. And we're worried about, you know, the three percent match and, you know, the $200 over there. So it's kind of like we've got to align on both sides of the equation. And I mean, the truth is, when you start investing, I'm really proud of people for wanting to invest in being forward thinking in that way. But if you do it before you're out of debt and before you have the right amount of savings, your investment, retirement investment becomes your emergency fund. And people dip into that and have to pay the taxes and fees because of it. And they form bad habits because of it. So there's a way to do this in order so that it's actually retirement savings and that you can enjoy it at the right point. So good. Well, thanks, Devin, for the call.

Hope that helps. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Sharon in Springfield. Hi, Sharon. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks so much for having me today. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, my husband's been handling our finances for the last, we've been married almost 20 years, and to the point that I really don't know what's going on in our finances largely. I say in a lot of ways he controls a lot of what we spend and how we spend it. And we'll have financial discussions and we'll talk about it, but I don't really have a full understanding of our financial picture when we make decisions. Okay. And I can't get him to sit down and make

a budget. Now we've been through the Ramsey programs, you know, I think we've been through them twice. We've even been out of consumer debt in the past, but keeping a consistent budget is a problem. I am the breadwinner in the family, and I'm wondering if it's worth just pulling my money out of our joint account and keeping my money separate so that I can at least budget part of what our income is. Why won't he budget? Like when you say, hey, I want to sit down and do this, what's his reason? Is it he doesn't have time? He doesn't think it's like, what's his problem? I think a lot of it is just understanding like how to plan for little things that come up with the kids, like costumes that the kids need for programs or,

you know, posters that they need to, you know, for school presentations, you know, making sure we've got money for those little things. And of course, there's more than just what the kids. And he doesn't want to do that or you want to do that. And he doesn't think that's necessary to plan for those details. He's hesitant about the zero, like getting all of the money and giving it a name. I hear that a lot. Take all the money, give all the money a name, and, you know, like that zero budget. But it doesn't mean zero dollars in the account.

Maybe that's what's making him nervous. I'm sorry, say that again? So zero-based budget doesn't mean zero dollars in the account, and that might be really clear, like really important to make clear to him. Zero-based budget simply means... We've talked about that. Okay, so he knows that. So at the beginning of this call, Sharon, you mentioned that he is, he's more the one that's controlling all the finances.

What does that mean? Does that mean do you have a debit card to your account that you share with him and you go and buy the costumes for the kids? Or how is the money flow happening right now? I do have a debit card. I spend very little of the money out of the account without at least clearing it with him first because I'm so blind to what's there.

Why? Why do you feel the need to ask his permission? Because we don't have a budget, so I don't know what money is there and how to use it. Okay, let's get down to it because our screen says, my husband has been withholding money, has been withholding finances from me for our entire marriage. And that sounds different than what you're saying. So help us understand. Well, yeah, he does withhold all of the information about the, about the account.

Yes. So you're, you don't want to, you ask permission to spend because you have no idea what money's in there. So it's just, you're, you don't want to blindly spend with the debit card. Can you not log into the, do you have the login information, Sharon? I don't currently have the login information. Have you asked it for him, and what does he say?

I have asked him for it, and I have tried to look at it. I'm not here recently, but I have tried to look at it, and I'm so overwhelmed. Like I don't even know where to start. So he gave it to you or he didn't give it to you? He logged in himself. He logged in himself and let you look over his shoulder. Oh, Sharon, that makes me nervous.

Yeah, I think at this point, I would be okay with you having your own account. But hear me say sharon that this um it's going to fix one part of it that you're going to have money to be able to spend but it's not going to fix your marriage um this is a temporary solution to really dive into the deeper parts because sharon what makes me nervous is, and we've, we've seen situations like this, that if you don't know where you're, where the money's going, I would, uh, I, I would be, I would be very highly concerned that there's stuff going on that in other parts of your marriage that you have no clue about. Yeah. You don't know what he's hiding. you have do you do you feel that I yes okay in some ways yes okay yes okay um

yeah I would I would start laying down an ultimatum with him um and again this is and for anyone listening right now this is regardless of Sharon is the breadwinner or not okay so her making the money great but even if Sharon was a stay-at-home mom, my viewpoint would be the exact same. Because as a married couple, as you guys, you are a team working together, and he has control issues. And sometimes, Sharon, and I'm going to just say this, and you can correct me in here,

but sometimes it puts you in a dangerous situation with a lot of abusive husbands. They use a level of power and control that you can't even go to the grocery store. Has there been abuse in your marriage in the past 20 years? Physical abuse? No. Okay. Never. Do you feel in danger? Do you feel like there's danger in your home?

No. I feel like there's danger in your home? No. I feel like my husband is very insecure. And so he's trying to keep hold of the money so that I can't leave. I know that sounds terrible. No, it doesn't. No, that's the truth. That's very real. That's what's going on.

Yeah. Do you guys have kids? We do. We've got two kids. How old are they? Almost 9 and 13. They're both about to have birthdays. Okay.

Yeah, I would have an ultimatum conversation, and it is you're going to give me all this login information. Yeah. And I want to see everything that's been going on any bills do you know how many credit cards he has um i believe we've just got one active credit card

i would ask him to pull his credit report and pull yours i want to see both of your credit reports i want the login information to all of our accounts, including retirement, including checking, including savings. Any of those accounts, I want the login information and I want them tonight. I want them tonight. Because if not, tomorrow morning, I'm going to be at the bank at 9 a.m. And I'm opening up my own account. Because Sharon, he has put you in. He has done this.

You're not the crazy one. He has put you in this situation. So this. You're not the crazy one. He has put you in this situation. So you're not being the bad guy here. You're protecting yourself. So important. And if you ask him, hey, because of the state of our marriage, we're going to go to counseling. What would he say to that? If you said, enough is enough.

We need to talk with someone. Would he go or would he fight that he would tell me we couldn't afford it okay so how much do you make a year Sharon how much are you bringing in I know what my salary is I make 105 okay um I don't know what my actual take-home would be he's handled our taxes what does he home? I don't know how that, I don't know exactly. Um, I think it's around 60. Okay. Um, yeah, those are the two ultimatums counseling and you're, and he's, he's changing by morning or, or like Rachel said, you're going on and opening an account. And I just want you to know, like you're doing well, like for know like you're doing well like for yourself you're doing well and

you don't have to stay in a situation where someone is abusing you financially and I'm just going to put it at that hard to hear it's hard to hear. That's hard to hear. Yeah, I know. Yeah, Sharon, we want, what we see so much is money issues are the symptom of a lot of things going on. And so the issue of you not knowing numbers and not having the accessibility to see what's going on financially in your home is a symptom of having a controlling husband. And there's only so much you can do. You can't change him. But what you can do is protect yourself.

And if you stay on the line, Christian's going to pick up and I want to get you with one of our certified counselors. It's just spending seven minutes with you on a radio call. I feel like it doesn't do it justice. I want someone walking with you, Sharon, in this because this is really important. This is really important. And I pray your marriage is healed in this process. It's going to be a really hard patch, but I pray redemption of that. I really do. I pray that you both come to the other side and are redeemed in this. But if not, I want you to protect yourself. This is The Ramsey

Show. Jade, I want to just go back a little bit to the conversation we were having last segment about a wife and she didn't have the knowledge of what was going on financially because her husband was keeping it from her. And we advise that she needs her own account. There needs to be some separation because there's a level of abuse there financially when you have to ask permission for everything and um and that's and and that those situations are on the fewer end of the spectrum than majority of couples we talk to on the show about joint accounts because right we are promoters of having joint checking accounts we think that that is one of the the best ways to work together as a couple as you're working this plan whether you're getting out of debt or seeing yourself as a united team so majority of of time, Jade, we get calls

that they're in separate accounts. And they're like, okay, do we combine them? Do we not? And so for majority of couples out there, joint accounts is one of the best things that you can do for your marriage. When you see yourself as a team and you work together, both sit down, husband and wife sit down and do a budget together.

Both have equal say in what's going on with the money. You know, both show mutual respect in that. And we are locking arms and we're doing this life together. We are married. We share a bed. We share kids. We're sharing our money. We're sharing our life.

When we get married, we are sharing our life. And that is really our stance in this. But we always have an asterisk yeah i mean you've got to be in a safe and healthy relationship for that to take place and the fact is some people are not in a safe and healthy relationship and it can have been that way so long that they don't realize that it's no longer safe and it's no longer healthy which is is what we saw with the previous caller. And so there is something to be said for evaluating your situation. And it's not an excuse for like, I had posted about this a while back, Rachel, and somebody said, oh, well, my husband goes to Target and just spins without telling me. So my relationship is no longer safe. And I'm like, you have to be able to read between the lines

and understand what we mean by that. Right, right. And so when I wrote the book, Money's Not a Math Problem, I came up with an acronym for that, for keeping your money safe, S-A-F-E. And I kind of say the S is you need to seek counsel if you are experiencing the A, which is addiction of any kind.

So if it's gambling, it's pornography, something that's keeping them spending, spending, spending. If there's any kind of abuse. And as we saw in the last caller, a lot of people hear the word abuse and they think, OK, this guy's slapping me around. Or, you know, maybe they're talking down to me or, you know, calling me names. But a lot of times it's that financial abuse like we saw there. They're not letting you in. They're not giving you the passwords. They're giving you an allowance and you can only go to the grocery store and buy this yes and that is a form of abuse and when that happens you've got to seek

counsel and then the e is for evaluate your options and your options are like what rachel said you can form another account and you can separate yourself uh for the time being and if that person is unwilling to seek counsel with you, you've got to evaluate and say, what do I need to do next? Are there children in this situation? Do I need to make some hard lines in the sand? And I just don't stand for abuse of any kind. So I have a really hard time telling anybody to wait that out. I'm like, I separate myself from that. You can always find inroads to get back but if a person is unwilling to seek counsel on your marriage and your money that's a hard line in the sand and it's hard it's

a hard thing to swallow yeah and to say yes and to say that right but um but that's the truth of you guys so um as as as married couples out there again we are so pro working together as a team. But when one person in the situation is not working as a team, and in that, it's abuse, addiction, there are things there that put you in danger, that is when you have to protect yourself. And I'll say this too, we talk to people on all different income levels,

all different parts of the country, all different viewpoints on marriage and roles and a spirituality i mean like you can get into all these nitty-gritty stuff but ladies out there if you are a stay-at-home mom you have just as much say at what is going on with the money in your home don't just yield that he's going to just take care of everything and and so much more of this is less about, you know, man or woman, but personality. Because also, again, not to drag on this conversation, but I think it's important. One of you is going to be more excited to do the budget. One of you is going to be the one that's more of the nerd, we call it, that they want to be, oh my gosh, we can't wait for this. And the

other free spirit. And sometimes the free spirits, we talk to the nerds and they're like, well, my wife never wants to do anything. And I'm well listen is she participating in it right is she you know part of the conversation like that's the goal here one of you may not love it as much as the other but that's not what we're talking about but it's the idea that regardless of who you are in the marriage you have equal say and equal access and equal access to your money you guys it's really really crucial because that promotes health and that promotes openness and promotes communication, which is going to help in other parts of your life and your marriage, not just money. So we want to create these good habits, you guys, and money's an avenue in that. Let's go to the phones.

We have Helen in Las Vegas. Hey, Helen. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. And my question is simply this. I was ill these last four years and I had to use my credit cards and 401ks and all that to survive during that time. I'm sorry. What was going on? Oh, well, I still have issues. It's a cancer state.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. But anyway, I did get a settlement recently, and my credit cards are about $60,000. And I'm just wondering, my question is, should I just pay them off and get rid of them? I did look up to see if I could get a debt relief program or something like that, but it sort of looked to me like you have to pay them, and I don't know. And I don't want to quit paying the credit cards and getting a – well, they do give you like – I guess they give you some kind of a help if you, if you, uh, quit paying them,

but I don't want to do that either. So I was wondering if, um, I should try to take that money and make, try to make money or should I just pay out those credit cards and, and just get the relief of not having to make those minimum payments on about 10 credit cards every month? Yeah. What, how much was your medical settlement? How much did you get? About $170. Okay. Do you have any other money saved? Do you have any?

I used it all up. Okay. Okay. So you cashed off retirement, everything, so there's nothing. I had to, yeah. Yep. Is the credit card the only debt you have? Well, I mean, I have my house,

and that's one of the reasons why I didn't expect not to be working. So, um, that mortgage is $1,800. So. And what do you owe on the house as well? Oh, a lot. All of it really. How much, how much is that? Uh400,000. $400,000. Okay. And are you working at all, Helen? No. Okay. No. How old are you?

71. Okay. Okay. So what are you living, besides the settlement money, what are you living off of and what's kind of your monthly, are you taking? $4,500. Okay. Social Security. off of and what's kind of your monthly are you taking okay social security um i would take some of this money and i would pay off the credit cards and i would take some of this money and i would keep three to six months of expenses for you maybe six months because you're living alone and you've got this health condition um and then I would take the rest of it, and I would start paying off the mortgage.

I'm just walking down the baby steps with you, is basically what I'm doing. And so I'd love if you got to a point, you know, you've got $4,500. Do you have any other money in retirement or any other investment accounts? No, no. Like I said, I had to use it all. Yeah, and this house, Helen, is it size-wise, location-wise?

I'm just wondering at your age, yeah, if you're able to find another option for living maybe to reduce not just the mortgage payment, but just the mortgage overall. If you can get to a place, a smaller living situation, that would relieve not just the $1,800 payments, but also relieve just the total mortgage that you're going to have. Well, with the cost of rents and everything here, it's just, you know, I'd be looking at another rent of $1,800 somewhere. Right, right.

It's high. So it makes no difference that I live here, live out my life here now, you know, because of that price now. Yeah, I hear you. But that's my main concern was just, you know, letting go of $60,000, bim bam boom, if that was okay, if that's the right thing. Yes, yeah, I think it is, Helen. That's what I would do. And then be working to get that emergency fund and then putting the

rest towards that down payment. I'm sorry, towards the mortgage. Mortgage, get it paid off as quickly as possible. Yep, thank you for calling. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you, America. Thank you, Jade. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.