The Ramsey Show - App - I Work in a Rough Environment...Should I Leave? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

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Thank you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where a man who hangs out and has a conversation about your life, your money, your work, your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you, America. It is a free call to jump in. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona to start this hour off. Thomas is there. Thomas, how can we help? Hey, Ken, John. Thank you for everything you guys do. I've got a quick question today. I am 24 years old, me and my wife, and we're making about $140,000 combined income per year. And we've got about a year or so now we're going to be inheriting about $300,000 to $400,000 in single stocks from a family friend of ours. And I'm a huge numbers guy. And we're currently on baby step two. We've got a car that we're going to have paid off in a couple of months here. And we also have

a home that probably within six months after inheriting this money, we could completely pay off. I'm wondering, should I reinvest these single stocks into mutual funds and, you know, kind of just work the baby steps and pay off our home in maybe, you know, five to six years? Or should I just cash out this money and pay off the home? How much do you have left in Baby Step 2? Well, Baby Step 2 is probably about $50,000 that we're paying off in a couple months here. Okay, and so then you're moving into Baby Step 3 in just a couple of months. Yes.

Uh-huh. And how much do you owe on the home? The home we are going to be owing probably about at the time we received this inheritance, probably plus or minus $20,000, right around $400,000. Okay. So you're inheriting, you think, between $350,000 and $400,000. We're not sure what that number is. It really depends on timing, yeah, because it's all in single stocks. Yeah. Well, John, you know, this is one of those deals where it's like, okay,

that stock coming to you as an inheritance, I want you to sit down with one of our SmartVestor pros. I want you to start with that. Like, let's sit down and go, okay, what's that going to look like, the tax implications? I'm just not aware of that. If it's an inheritance of stock, are you aware of the single stock? So what I want you to do, the best thing to do is you're following our plan. I want you to get with a SmartVestor Pro. Do you have a SmartVestor Pro already that you are at least aware of? I know you're not in that

step yet, but are you aware of a SmartVestor Pro in your area? Yeah. And I actually am already with one prior to taking on this car debt that we have, we've got probably about $30,000 in retirement already on our own at 24. Right. And I should have prefaced that inheritance that we're receiving. That's after tax. Oh, okay. All right, that solved my thing. Okay, so if it's me, I'm going to pay off the house.

Yeah. I'm going to fast forward all the debt, and now you're rocking and rolling. The next day. The only reason I wouldn't pay off that house is if you're 24, you say? Yeah, 24. The only way I would not pay off the house is if y'all think you're going to move in the next two or three years. No, and I don't think we will. Me and my wife been it's our four

year anniversary coming up in a couple weeks we got married young and we're we're here we're for life we're here in tina yeah pay it off the next day the house off the next day because now you're already there you're i mean now you're the 15 percent's coming out baby step four you're saving for the kiddos and five you're already through six and it's all about seven. I'd pay it off instantly. And then in 50, not 50, let's give you some more than that, 80 years, somebody else, all of your kids are sitting down saying, hey, we all got $400,000 or $4 million, and how are we going to do this with our houses?

Now you're talking legacy change. I love that. Congratulations, Thomas. Yeah, that was a small detail that we needed. That's good. If that's the money after tax, absolutely. Wipe it out. Yeah, be done with it.

That's fantastic. Really fantastic. Yeah. Love that. All right, let's go to a social media question here. Chandler writes in on Facebook, How do I keep from wanting to keep up with the Joneses when I see everyone around me having nice things? I don't know what he's talking about, John.

I've never had that problem. I have no idea what he's talking about. So, Ken, this is a good question for you and me because we're both strong-willed guys. Yeah. Neither of us like being told what to do, but I am a sucker for a Filson ad. I'm a sucker for a cool car driver on the road and being like, I think I need to get that car or a rifle or a newson ad. I'm a sucker for a cool car driver on the road and being like, I think I need to get that car. Or a rifle or a new fishing rod.

Man. So I don't like being told what to do. I don't like people in my head, but they're in my head. Yeah, I'm with you on the golf clubs, the classic cars. I'll tell you how I have to do it. Number one, it starts with intentionality and a budget for me. I have to know what I can and can't do. Number two, I'm hyper, hyper intentional.

We talk a lot about this on my show. I'm hyper intentional about a gratitude journal. Shifting my way of being towards what can I consume to I'm so grateful for what I have. And if life presents itself or ultimately if I save for a car for a year, then I end up with a lot less car than I was searching for because I can get by with less, right? So it's an orientation for how I just approach the world.

Yeah, I think that's right. I'd add two things for me because even in my gratitude, sometimes it's still that shiny thing and I start comparing myself. And I can get in that and I'm like, how how did he get there how does he have all this i mean i can get there so what i have to do is i have to focus on my priorities first so what are my priorities what am i putting my time and money into because because it's intentional you know we live intentional so it's

like well i'm sacrificing i don't have that I have this, or I'm working towards this. What are my priorities? So I've got to bring it back to what am I focused on? What's my story? What's my journey? Stop looking at their story. That's where you get all jacked up. Wait a second.

He's got different priorities or whatever. I'm making these decisions. So I remind myself, number one, of my priorities. And then I take a good glance at the long term. What's the vision? What vision am I trying to make come true yeah with our life because money's involved in that of course it is yeah stuff is a part of all that and so if i can do those two things it does help me get back to that ultimate place of gratitude it it's

i have to shake myself no it's maddening to me because i you know me i'm a stats nerd and i know the data says about happiness and money. And I know the happiness says about how long it actually hangs on when you buy the new car and how much lower that happiness ROI is when you buy the second car. And I know how much, I know what it says, that money doesn't bring you this,

that other stuff doesn't bring you joy. Other stuff doesn't bring you past basic needs, doesn't bring you joy other stuff doesn't bring you past basic needs doesn't bring you sleep doesn't bring you a good marriage but every person i know wants to be the one like i'll try it out right give me a couple million dollars i'll see if i can figure that out right and i have to constantly for me go back to the data and say i i keep believing this to be true it is a myth. It is not true. Yeah. This is what's real

and this is what's true. Yeah. It's good. It's hard, though. It is hard. Nobody's immune to this. Hey, and have a friend in your life that'll say,

you're an idiot. Stop. Yeah. Stop. Stop. Would you be grateful you pinhead? I got some people like that.

A little insult on that, by the way, is that extra piece. Just perspective, but also an insult she just shakes her head yeah just what do you mean but that's kind of just being a husband that's like i live in that perpetual state of stacy shaking her head leaving laura johnson did it when i used to work for her on the video show she just was always like

and so you learn to accept it hey don't go anywhere more of your calls more hope more breakthrough coming up. This is the Ramsey Show. through Christian Healthcare Ministries. Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with healthcare expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events.

Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls about life. Now, when John and I are together, we kind of have a fun combo. Of course, we can take your money questions. But I'm focused on helping you in your work, working on purpose. So that could be figuring out what is that work that I was born to do or how do I get there?

I know what it is or how do I get there. Or, hey, I know what it is that I'm supposed to do. I know how to get there. But fear, finances, failure, family holding me back. We can talk about toxic stuff at work. That comes into John and I. We can talk about burnout, what's going on there. Relationships, John can talk about relationship, parenting, marriage,

and all of this stuff, of course, is under that money umbrella. We're talking about life. So we'd love to hear from you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Okay, so, John, I've got an article. It's fresh. It's like the hot now sign at Krispy Kreme. This is hot.

Wall Street Journal. So fresh and so clean, clean. Let's do it. Okay. And here's the headline. And you have an interesting perspective on this because of your higher ed background. Yes. So I'm really fascinated.

Okay. All right. Al Lord. Here's the headline. Al Lord profited when college tuition rose. He is paying for it. Al Lord is the former chief executive of student loan giant, Sally Mae. And he's got to complain about higher education.

This is where it gets rich. The irony is so deep right here, you might need a life jacket. Exactly. The price of college is too high, he says. Paying for his grandchildren's education in recent years, he said, left him appalled at the tuition bills that land on his desk every semester. This is a direct quote. Boy, am I sure glad we saved for my grandkids.

If the average income is $40,000 or $50,000 or $60,000, I just don't know how you do it. For the record, Al, he's still out of touch. The median family income in the United States right now is $78,500. So just a quick snapshot. That's the median, but there's also tons of folks outside. That's right. A lot of people in that range he's talking about.

Yeah. $40,000 or lower. Right. And he's going, how do they afford it? Well, the news is, Al, they can't. They don't. But you set up a system where they feel like they might be able to. The irony, John.

So it goes on in this article where he basically comes out and says, I knew what was going on. He was like, look, here's what happened. I was a partner in the government. And Congress gave Sallie Mae an unbelievable return. They encouraged banks to finance all these loans. And then it turned into this massive, massive company where the stock holdings were worth $300 million. And he says in this article, there's no question in my mind, I knew what was going on. He knew that they were making it easier and easier and easier for people to go into debt.

He's admitting this. So there you go. When I read this, I was like, you have got to be kidding me. He's coming out saying, yeah, it's too much. But they allowed it see because higher eds basically said all right let's just keep jacking up tuition because we're giving people vehicle to do it and so i want to ask you this i've been talking about this malcolm gladwell has been big on this issue you got harvard i think has a 40 billion dollar endowment columbia

uh i think top 10 endowments in the country, their staff and even some of their leading educators in administration have asked, can we use some of the endowment to help pay for the graduate degrees and they're not doing it? I just want to know, what are your thoughts here? How do we not feel like this is about big business and not about education? Yeah, I've heard the phrase with some of the schools that they are hedge funds with a student component to them, right? That they're just giant hedge fund companies. Hard to deny that. A couple of things haven't been inside.

It's easy to think of an endowment as just a giant savings account. Much of endowment funds are tied up in a donor gives this much money and wants it paid out to this type of thing over so it has strings attached tons of strings right so when i think of an endowment i just think of a savings account of my and it's not how those always work now you can get creative and find new ways etc i think at the end of the day you've got a group of schools with massive endowments and thousands of schools that do not have that and so to lump everybody in that pile is tough so let's get away from the endowment conversation let's just talk about this has been a steady rise in tuition it's just been going going

going going going and here's the guy that led sally main he's going it's out of control yeah it's too much what what i mean i was part of a think tank that we dug into this thing. The challenge here is it's a strange, strange universe. You can actually create a college tuition model that has no loans, no scholarships, that here's just what it costs to come here. And people came back. It's the JCPenney model. You know what?

We're not doing any more sales. We're not. It costs $7 to get a shirt. Come get a shirt. And JCPenney model. You know what? We're not doing any more sales. We're not. It costs $7 to get a shirt. Come get a shirt. And JCPenney almost went away. People want this idea that I am going to pay more and get a scholarship and do this. It's just

a game that's gotten out of control on everybody. And somebody outside that system is going to come up and disrupt the whole thing because it can't work. And colleges have known this for years again i've sat with people the clocks tick have wept they've like we know we've got to stop doing this to kids and they just can't seem to turn the nozzle and um unfortunately when you can't turn the nozzle on your own house somebody will come and do it for you and you can talk to the blockbusters of the world.

I mean, it happens. The codex of the world. And there's a storm brewing. It's coming both ways. Dude, it's been brewing and brewing and brewing and brewing. It's hard not to think that higher ed cares more about their fortunes than your future. That's what I say. It's hard, man.

And it's tough stuff. So very interesting stuff there. I'll tell you this. Ramsey Solutions, we're going to get in this. We're going to be disrupting this stuff. I mean, because here's the deal. People are going to get to the point where they're going, look, I'll tell you this, Ramsey Solutions, we're going to get in this. We're going to be disrupting this stuff. I mean, because here's the deal. People are going to get to the point where they're going, look, I need to get qualified. And there's lots of ways to get qualified.

Well, what you're starting to see happen is quiet proposals, like the American Counseling Association quietly says, why don't we just create our own program, right? When, or, and I just picked them out of the air. When GE finally just says, you know what? We're going to train you for 18 months and you can work for us. It's going to start happening. It's going to start chipping off and chipping off. So Google's already doing it.

So Google announced a major initiative last year where they've got six-month training programs in several key areas, mostly technology-based, but it's like a hiring farm system, like the major leagues. They've got a farm system. They're training people they want. As a citizen, so I'm a lifelong educator, so my bias is there. I always want our citizens to know about history. And I saw that thing the other day that this many middle schoolers and high schoolers have no concept of Nazi Germany. They don don't know what that story is right that's tragic it is so you you've got

history you've got basic science we got folks like we talked about the code vaccine earlier folks who we don't even have basic science literacy across the board so we can't even say is this is that there's science there's there's math there's just general quote-unquote knowledge my fear about having some of these companies break off and say you know what i'm gonna do an 18 there's science, there's math, there's just general quote-unquote knowledge. My fear about having some of these companies break off and say, you know what, I'm going to do an 18-month training program, come work for me, is you lose the collective knowledge. The other side of it is we can't charge $100,000.

We can't. It's impossible. I think you make a good point. How do you find that balance? Well, because I'm pretty vocal on this stuff. I've had some educators come in and go, why do you hate higher education? I go, number one, I don't. I respect the liberal arts. But what I'm saying is there's more to the college experience than just your liberal arts.

Well, yeah. And so you're going to have to get trained. You guys are going to have to step your game up in training people to be able to move into the workforce and adapt. To go work. I love the focus on liberal arts. And I would say this, that I probably am going to freak you out on this, but I'm for a basic level of history. I think we need to be teaching that better in the elementary, middle school, and high school.

But once you get to the college age, unless you want to go into history, I could be like, hey, you know know look we we've got to make higher education about preparing people for their future so to me i go i love you know this i love a custom i love some customization meaning a kid comes in and goes look i want to go into this and we go hey we think this would be good and i'm for some core stuff at college but i'm not as concerned about i'm more concerned about what you're talking about. Why is this true because of our current education system in K-12? I remember stuff from history from K-12. I remember stuff about science.

Not a whole lot because I don't like science. But I'm not good at science, and that's what I teach. And that's where I think a lot of the higher ed problems, outside of the pricing issue, which is a whole other thing, and you start rolling downhill and start pulling that thread, man, it comes all the way back to task-based and kindergarten and middle school. We got a lot of work to rethink our education system. Oh, you and I can talk about that for hours and hours now.

So the bottom line is it's got to be more relevant and it's got to be easier for people to do. All right. I see some folks, oh, in the lobby. Great crowd here. Don't move. We're taking your calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show on The Ramsey Network, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. He's the host of The Dr. John Deloney on The Ramsey Network. You're probably wondering, how much time did you guys spend on those names? Was there a lot of creative people in the room when we came up with those? Millions of dollars. Yeah, hours upon hours, in the room when we came up with those? Millions of dollars. Yeah, hours upon hours, and that's what we came up with. I know.

What do you guys think about the Ken Coleman show? Yeah? Good? We like that? Okay, let's go with that. So that's what we did. That's what we did. Same thing with you.

It's the same. I had some awesome rock band names that were going to be awesome, dude. Oh, that's so great. It didn't work. All right, a couple ways to engage, 888-825-5225. You can also engage with us on social media as well. John and I were talking during the break. And based on what he does on the Dr. John Deloney Show, easy said, huh?

Focusing on relationships, the mental and emotional health, and then I'm helping people get out of those dead-end jobs, get out of some toxicity. He and I both deal with this. So we were talking during the break. So we're going to throw this out there. If you're in a situation right now, you're walking out the baby steps, you're gazelle intense, and you really need that job.

I mean, it's the shovel. But you're in a really crappy, let's just call it toxic, nasty situation with either coworkers or your leader. Or your leader. Your leader is an impossible pinhead. I did an event with Entree Leader the other day. Entree Leadership, the group here. Yeah, about leaders. I want to hear about your bad leaders.

Oh, it's the worst thing with companies is the leadership. You're in a horrible leadership situation. You want some advice from John and I? We love that. I want to hear about your boss, man. So here's the deal. We'll change your name and your location. Yes.

Because we don't want you to get fired. We want you to leave and tell them to stick it, right? It's a great song by Johnny Paycheck. Take this job and shove it. 888-825-5225. Call us about your boss. I want to hear it. We'll do that.

But first, look at this. We've got another fantastic couple out in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage from Austin, Texas, Scott and Holly. Welcome. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So, you're here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir.

Very exciting. Okay. Tell us about it. How much did you pay off? $194,500. $194,500. And how long? Two and a half years.

What? And we paid the first $140,000 off in the first 13 months. Oh my goodness. Now, does this include a house? It does not include a house. What kind of debt was it? Cars. Cars. Wait a second.

Am I guessing here that you're a gearhead? Yes, sir. What kind of cars, I guessing here that you're a gearhead? Yes, sir. What kind of cars, man? Anything that has wheels. No, come on. Tell me something. There had to be a car or two in there you're a little proud of. 69 Chevy Nova.

I knew it. I knew it. Anything up to 2015 Ford F-250. How bad did it hurt? Horrible. Yeah. Which one hurt the most? The ones that I did for this.

Oh. All right. Okay. Okay. And then the rest was student loans. Student loans. Credit cards. Wow.

Okay. What was your range of income in this time? $150,000 to $170,000. Okay. Wow. What do you guys do? I'm a physical therapist. Okay.

Oil and gas industry. Oil and gas. Now, was there some overtime here to get to that $20,000 bump, or is it just gradual increases? Promotions. Okay, good. Quite a bit of overtime. Excellent. And you guys have a great salary, but I don't want that to overshadow.

Y'all paid off $200,000 in 28, 29 months. That's a lot of money. So you have a good salary, but y'all were getting after it. Major, major changes. That's a lot of money. So you have a good salary, but y'all were getting after it. So tell us again, remind us, how much you paid off in that first 13 months, you said? $140,000. Whoa. Talk to me about that. Detail that

for us. So we sold everything. I don't know if you noticed our shirts and our friend's shirts, but they say we sold everything but the kids. Yeah, I've heard that before. We literally did did that we unfortunately sold all his toys a razor a boat and they were all paid off for cash oh so those were hard um and then his baby we sold that we had a loan on it and well which way what's the baby again the nova this truck oh there it is there on the youtube oh wow that's? This truck. Oh, there it is. There on the YouTube. Oh, wow.

Listen, that's a beautiful truck, man. Thanks. It was. That was the day we sold it. I wiped away the tears for that picture. Did you really? Close. Are you joking?

No. I thought you might be. It was pretty close. Yeah, right? It was pretty close. Oh, I bet. Wow. Yep.

So you sell all the cars. You're driving a Corolla around Austin, Texas, not near as cool as it used to be. It was a 20-year-old vehicle, yes. There you go, right? So that gets you going. So, I mean, how quickly into all the sell-off do you guys go, oh, wow, we are going to do this? You really believed. Yeah, I think that was the hardest part.

We were just talking about it before the show was him coming forward and saying, okay, I'll sell my truck. And I kept pushing for that because it was a big loan. And he turned around and said, okay, then we're selling the boat and the razor. And they're both cash. And I was like, no, no, we don't owe anything on those. We don't want to get rid of that. And he said, if we're selling, we are selling and we are getting rid of all of this debt. If we're going to do it, we're going to get it done. We're really big into going and doing and traveling. And we were telling people

no constantly. And the only thing we would do is home vacations with these guys, our friends over here. People would come visit us, but we kept telling everybody no. Who had the first conversation with who? Who sat down and said, I'm scared. We owe a couple hundred thousand dollars, and I can't breathe. She's been talking to me about it for quite a while. I just wouldn't ever get on board with it. And what finally pushed you over the edge?

You know, it's one of those things, like, just being up front and honest, just really tired of hearing about it. And then you listen to the Dave Ramsey show and you hear about the people that have done it and how they're living life now. We're real big into trying to give to our community and do work like that. But we really didn't ever have the opportunity to because we were living paycheck to paycheck. I mean, we were doing good, but it was all going out just as fast as coming in. So two and a half years ago, you finally say, I'm tired of her telling me we have to do this. I'm going to start listening to the show and then hearing the stories like you're sharing right now.

That was the moment for you that led to it? Wow. And then when you said, I'm all in, it's all right. You are definitely all in. All in or go home or go big or go home, right? That's right. Yeah, so we've heard a lot of this, but what is the mental or emotional key or what's the discipline that you would say to folks listening right now

that allowed you guys to walk this? You know, first and foremost, I mean, you've got to be pretty strong with your relationship, you know, with your teammate, with all your friends that are going to do this with you. Having that physical help to go forward and just keep doing it, keep you on track is the biggest thing that I would say. Everybody has to be all in. And you have to remember that there are going to be fights.

We've heard these debt-free screams for the last two and a half years. And people say it's hard, but they don't tell you how hard it is and how stressful. There's times he didn't want to keep doing it. There were times I didn't want to keep doing it. The first 13 months were easy because we sold everything. But after that, it was like slow and plugging away. And we did things wrong and we'd get back on track and, and then we'd fall off again and get back on. But we knew we wanted to do it,

and we knew we were on the same page on that part, and that helped. And then having a good support system. Scott, give me one quick thing. To a husband who is sitting there, and he feels like his wife is just complaining and nagging and whining. What would you tell him? You're a Texas male that sold his f-250 it didn't get much more you know what i mean that's right so you sold the kid right and it's 60 what

do you tell that guy man leave your ego at the door man that's right uh be all in you know be supportive and and ride it you know go with it so great how's it feel now? Fantastic. Yeah, it's very freeing, and it's something that you don't, you can't even explain. The day we paid off on March 4th, I was like, we're done. What do we do now? And then obviously we keep going through the baby steps, but that moment just knowing, and our kids were like, now we can go do this, or we can give to this,

and we can donate here. I love it. Those types of things were just so, it's just a freeing. What a great legacy that the kids are talking about. In fact, let's go ahead and bring them up and introduce the kiddos to everybody. I'm sure they're ready to do this screen. They've practiced. Yes.

Who do we have? This is Brecken. He's 10, and Taley is 8. Brecken and Taley? Did I get that right? Yes. Okay, Brecken and Taley. All right, so if they practiced, you guys were ready. Brecken and Taley. Okay I get that right? Yes. Okay, Brecken and Taley. All right, so if they practice, you guys are ready.

Brecken and Taley. Okay, all right, here we go. So, in the lobby, Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Scott and Holly, Brecken, and how do I say it again? Taley. Taley, got it. $194,500 in two and a half years, making $150,000 to $170,000. Let's hear your debt-free scream.

All right, count it down. Three,000. Let's hear your debt-free scream. All right, count it down. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yes! Look at that. Another family. The kids get it. So good.

Love it. Hey, now we can give. What can we do with this money? That's the legacy of financial peace. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. Thrilled to have you with us.

888-825-5225 is the number. John and I mentioned this earlier. We're going to have some fun here. Both of us are talking during the breaks and we get a lot of calls about people that are just dealing with mental and emotional damage from work, John. You know, just difficult people

and a lot of times it's an awful, and I mean train wreck awful human being that's their leader. And it causes unknown physical, emotional, mental challenges. And it ricochets through families. It ricochets through communities.

It's affecting you at home, no question. But yet you're going, well, we need the job. How can I change jobs while I'm in the baby steps? You can, by the way. I can help you with that. Of course. But it's also, this is the identity thing I hear a lot, Ken. But I'm a fill in the blank. I'm an IT guy. I'm a roofer. I can help you with that. Of course. But it's also, this is the identity thing I hear a lot. I can't. But I'm a fill in the blank.

I'm an IT guy. I'm a roofer. I'm a landscape architect. As in, this is the only shop in town. I'm that guy, so I'm stuck here. And it's like, no. It's not true. So we want to tackle that holistically.

I want to hear about these bosses. It's good radio. I want to hear about your leadership experiences. So here's the deal. We're going to change your name and your location. Laura Johnson is a pro. I mean, come on. She's in the Hall of Fame.

She's the OG. That's right. So she'll change your name, location. And here's what we're going to do. John's going to tackle the emotional and the mental stuff. And then I'm going to come in and we're going to work on, okay, what's the path out of there? That's right. Because this is a big problem.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you got a horrible loss. We want to hear the story. Oh, what about the jerk coworker that makes you want to throw your head in an oven every day? Are you looking at me, Ken? No, not at all. I'm just kidding.

No. Or if you, during COVID, if you have been promoted four times and now you got a fancy, and they've given you 11 new departments and no pay raise. Yes. Because are you not grateful? Right. What do you mean? Right. Oh, here's one.

You're the associate to the assistant to the vice president now. That's right. Here's one. You really like working from home. You didn't know it was your jam, and now you're being told you've got to come back in. What do you do? I need that income, Ken. Help!

We'll take it all on. And they'll tell you, man, y'all have been more productive in the last six months than I've ever seen. Yeah. But everybody's got to come back, right? Yeah. So yeah, let's bring it all in, man. There's a lot of stuff out there.

I want to hear about these bosses. 888-825-5225. All right, let's all speak of the situation. Sarah joins us in Lincoln, Nebraska. Sarah, how can we help? Hi, Ken and Dr. John. How's it going? We're having a blast. What's going on with you? Good. You said to call in about some issues at work. Hey, we love it. What is happening in your workplace, Sarah?

I'll try to boil it down. But basically, I love my job and I love my boss, but I have a co-worker who refuses to retire. She's been there for 33 years and I work in a police department as a forensic scientist. trauma and mental issues already as it is with just trying to deal with the work that we deal with. But I think it'd be a lot easier to do if I had basically co-workers that did their job. And so I guess my issue is I have other offers at other places, but I'm not willing to take the decrease in pay, which would be a really big decrease in pay in order to combat kind of just a bad coworker. It's one of those things like, do I just suck it up and deal with it? I've told my bosses about it, and more or less they are aware that I've tried to go to counseling to kind of get tools in my toolbox to figure out how to handle that. I've also changed shifts, so I avoid working with her personally. But it's one of those things where I think she's doing some unethical things.

And when I bring that up, I've been flat out told, like, we don't agree with what she's doing, but we're never going to fire her. And we know that personally no one gets really along with her. She kind of bullies and intimidates a lot of people, and they're aware of that, and they're just like, yeah, we can't really change her personality. So when she retires, we'll just fix what we know that she's doing that we don't like that she's doing.

So first of all, Sarah. It's also a hierarchy. First of all, I am so sorry that you've taken this to your leaders and they basically are saying, we agree, we agree, we agree, but we're not going to do anything about it. And I don't know if they're scared of her. I could spend all my time on this, but so that John and I can dive in a little bit more. What is happening with you changing shifts? So you getting, I know she's doing things that are unethical, but when you change shifts where you're not directly working with her, does that make it

better? Or is the fact that you know she's doing unethical things just eating away at you like a cancer? Explain more. I think it's a lot easier for me. I'm flexible in my hours and that's easy for me to just change shifts to avoid that one-on-one. Well, my question is, when you avoid that, which is great, when you're not around her, are you in a place now where you love the job? You said, I love the job, love my boss. So when you're doing that, what's your emotional state, mental state about her when you're not on the same shift? It's great when I'm not on the same shift unless I have to go to court.

And it's difficult to go to court and have to try to explain something that I know was done incorrectly on her end. The attorney, I've confronted that too for cases and said, hey, how do I handle this when I'm testifying that something wasn't done properly? And is that something that I need to handle or so hey listen at this point um i've at this point you've got to put in writing a public protest i mean that you've got to put in writing to your bosses that there's um unethical work being done that there's mismanagement of cases um these things a you've got an ethical and moral responsibility to your local community that's what you signed up when you went to work at a police department the second thing is is this

type of sloppy work or unethical work or however you want to characterize it is going to result in either bad guys getting off or good guys going to jail right and that's notwithstanding just this person is miserable to be around. Right. And so at this point, I think the conversations, unfortunately, you've heard me. You may have heard me say on my show, not by your hand, but in your lap. An ethical issue fell in your lap as a public official. And you've got to put it in writing and say, I'm going to go up the chain here unless this is handled and remedied. All right.

So, Sarah, he's right about that. But now we've got to start thinking about what's the path out of here, because if you do that, they're not willing to get rid of her. They may get rid of you. So you're walking down a path where we've got to have some options. You said you had a couple offers. Are both of the offers a significant financial step back or a slight one? No, they're huge. It'd be a huge downgrade in pay as well as it's a change in hours and they're not flexible. All right, so let me ask a really naive question. Are those the only opportunities that could exist for you to do the work that you love? No, it's just if I stay where I currently am, it's around family and stuff too.

So it has other benefits as well. Sure. Okay, so what I'm saying is where else can you go and do similar work? Just another organization, another police department. Is that possible? Yes, except with the pay decrease, yes. Okay, so what I'm hearing is no. You're telling me the only place to do that forensic work that you want to do is where you are currently.

So you're basically in a – you're kind of in a no-win situation. We hope that with what John's saying that this puts the leadership in a position where they do something about this. But if not, I mean, when we talk about forensics and the type of work there, I've got to tell you, one of the things I'm going to challenge you on, and again, I'm naive in the sense of knowledge on your particular industry, but I know that the type of work you do, that there are elements, there are tasks, there are functions, there are roles where you can find similar work. It may not be in law enforcement specifically, but you can find work like that. Do you agree with me or disagree? Yes, I agree with that. So you've got to start looking. So we go, it's a function issue. So for instance, John and I got out of what we were doing. We're communicators, we're content, we're kind of teachers, instructors. We're going, okay, where else can I do that type of work?

And that's what you've got to start to do. The investigative piece, the analyzing, the solving, whatever you would say, break that job down very simply by making a one sheet. What's the type of work that I do that I love? And let's start looking for opportunities to do that. What will it take to get qualified? How much will that cost? How long will it take to get me there? Would a law firm want to pick you up in town?

Want to teach you opportunities? There's a million different opportunities. Look for that type of stuff, Sarah. You've got to do it quickly. And then I agree with John. You have a moral responsibility to do something. It's in writing. Sorry you a million different opportunities. Look for that type of stuff, Sarah. You've got to do it quickly. And then I agree with John. You have a moral responsibility to do something. It's in writing. Sorry you're dealing with this.

Hey, more of those kind of calls will help you. He's John Deloney. I'm Ken Coleman, and producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.