The Ramsey Show - App - I'd Rather Go to Culinary School Than College (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

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it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You can get in if you dial 888-825-5225. Rick is in San Antonio to start off this hour. Hi, Rick. How are you?

I'm doing fine, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. My wife and I love listening to your show. Well, thank you, sir. How can we help? Well, she retired after 32 years in the military a few years ago, and she has a retirement income of about $6,500 a month growth. And out of that, we pay a $421 survivor benefit plan, which is the annuity to protect her retirement in case she passes, then I would receive 55% of that amount. Now, we're thinking that we have an opt-out where we can, we're in the period to tell we can stop it and take that money instead and pay off our house.

It's the only thing that we owe. We owe about $140,000 on it. And we're wondering if we should do that or continue and just pay the house out of her part-time income, and I'm a seasonal tax payer. So if you're paying for – okay, I see what you're doing. All right, so your income agrees by $400,000. It's an annuity, basically, is what it is. Yeah, I got it.

I'm familiar with it. I was just trying to remember how they did it. Okay. All right, so you're how old? I'm 60. And she is 60 as well? 58. Okay.

Tell her thanks for her service, by the way. Kids are grown and gone? Yeah, for the only ones in the house. Okay, all right. And so if she passes away and the annuity passes with her because you canceled this benefit, what is your income? What are you living on? Basically off of our retirement,

we have about $850,000 in retirement funds and $50,000 in cash. And then I would just continue to work part-time until Social Security kicks in. Way to go, millionaire! Pretty stinking cool, man! Well, we're thinking that we should probably get to opt out of that. Yes, you should opt out of it. You should opt out of it. Okay.

Okay? Okay. get to opt out of that and just yes you should opt out of it you should opt out of it okay okay okay if someone does not have 800 000 around i might have used a little bit of it to buy some term insurance to make sure you're okay if she passes but you're okay if she passes financially speaking you're you're not okay but i mean financially you'll be okay yeah financially yeah yeah yeah so i figure that we'll be all right. And her big deal is after 32 years, she just didn't want to see it go away if she passes early because she thinks she has bad genes. Yeah, she just needs to stay alive then. Yeah. She's a breast cancer survivor, so she thinks she has bad genes, and she's not sure.

But I'm trying to convince her we could probably give it up and be okay. I would give it up were i in your shoes this is basically insurance and yourself you're in a position of being self-insured yeah okay that makes sense yeah if you really want to be uber conservative go buy a half million dollars in term on her um how long ago was the breast cancer uh it's been about 10 years yeah she can get a half million dollars in term on her. How long ago was the breast cancer? It's been about 10 years. Yeah, she can get a half million dollars in term, and you'll be surprised at how cheap it is as Zander Insurance. I wouldn't do that, but if that makes her feel better,

it's going to be a lot less than $480 a month, a whole lot less, and you can still turn her in and get the house paid off. And, yeah, you need to pay off the house this week out of that $800 as well. Didn't even ask how much it was, but you probably need to pay it off this week. So, yeah, very interesting. Well done. Good stuff. Yeah, I mean, Survivor Benefit, $6,500 a month is a wonderful retirement for the military.

It is. That's nice. It's really nice. She spent some good time there. I need to talk to my dad and see how much he's getting. He retired. Why? You think you're going to get some of it?

Oh, I'm going to get some of it. It's my dad. No. No, you're not either. I know him. He's a smart man. You're absolutely right. He's just going to look at you when you say that.

Look at you like, why are you asking that? Never hurt to ask. Amanda's with us in tucson arizona hey amanda welcome to the ramsey show thank you so much dave and ao thanks for taking my call yeah my question for you today i am active duty military and my husband and I are wondering if we should plan to buy within the next year or so, or if we should wait to buy. We've been renting for eight years now, and we don't really desire to live long-term in Tucson. We'd prefer to be on the East Coast, but my husband is pursuing prerequisites for med school or PA school currently. And we just want to try limiting moving our family, moving our kids. But I'm getting kind of tired of renting, but we don't see ourselves in Tucson long term.

Yeah. Before I answer this question, I'm curious, why do I hear people say they're tired of renting? Why are you tired of renting? Well, I think because we've rented for eight years now, I'm 33 years old. We're on baby step three B and just feel ready. We're ready to kind of take that next step we're debt free like you feel like you're wasting money am i correct in some ways yes and we just um we started doing some investing in retirement over the last um couple years but i just feel like we're pulled. And we just had our third baby, so we just bought a minivan in cash, which is so exciting.

But, yeah, just wanting to limit uprooting the kids from school, but also... I think you know the answer. Yeah. I think you know the answer that you're still in a position of transition, which is not a good time to buy.

No. Yeah. And you're not making a bad decision by renting because you're in baby step 3B. Now, Dave, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have a problem with you actually investing and still saving to go towards a home. Yeah. So I would say go ahead and go over to baby step number four. Go ahead and start investing 15% and start continuous saving for a home.

So that way when you all do get out of the military or at least get into a spot. When he finishes PA school and you land where you're going to land. Yeah. And you're setting down roots. That's when you buy. And you already knew that, didn't you? Okay. I did.

I just feel like I'm getting to the point in my life where it would be nice to have my own home. You'll be okay. Okay. Yeah, your point of life when you're ready to get a home is when you're going to be there a little while. Right. And you've settled in after this PA thing. This house could, if you bought a house right now and then he ends up moving to a different city to do PA school or do his fellowship or do whatever, any of that stuff, this house is going to end up being an anchor around your neck, a blessing just like it would have been every time they moved you in

the military that's why we tell folks in active duty when they're being moved all the time don't be buying a home because you're gonna end up with a home in every city you were stationed in pretty much and you can't get rid of and so yeah you're i appreciate your frustration i appreciate your you know ready i'm ready to put down roots, you know, but you got really one more step to do that and that's the transition after PA school and after the military. And you're going to be there. It's not going to be there in a heartbeat. It won't be that long.

Kids are going to be fine. You've done a good job. You're winning. You're staying out of debt. You bought the minivan with cash. Rockstar. Good stuff. This is the Ramsey Show. Our famous $10 sale is back. This time last year, a lot of folks got behind with their money. But this spring, there's hope. Our famous $10 sale can help you get control of your money and feel good about your future. We'll be right back. over and everyday millionaires. These books will help you make a plan today to hit your money goals faster.

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Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. So, Dave, today's question comes from Joshua in the most beautiful state, I believe, California. The beautiful, sunny California. His question is, my parents want me to go to college when I graduate high school this year. They have saved $50,000 in the 5 529 plan and i would have to take out loans to fund anything over that amount i want to go to culinary school which would only cost forty five thousand dollars leaving five thousand dollars for one of my siblings to use what should i do well number one let's take out you're going to have to take out student loans. We're going to take debt off of the table. That's number one.

Number two, I would honestly have a conversation, Joshua, with your parents and asking them, what's your game plan for your for your siblings? Is this 529 for all of you all or can you use all 45 of it? If you can, then you're going to school 100% debt free. But I would definitely have a conversation with your parents to see exactly what was their game plan if they're only giving you 20,000 of that. But if they're saying, no, you can use all 50 and we'll worry about your siblings because we have another 529 for them or another game plan, then you're going to take out the 45,000 to go to culinary school. And before I choose this particular culinary school, I'm going to do my research and make sure that that's the most affordable one within my price range. Yeah.

So I have several chefs, Joshua, that are award winning. You've seen some of them on TV that are friends of mine. Matter of fact, I was with one of them last night that are friends of mine as a matter of fact i was with one of them last night that was won several awards and um i don't know anything about culinary except i'm good at eating it um and i'm really good at that it's i'm like a professional um it's like my favorite sport and so i like hanging out with these guys but one thing i have noticed about them is uh that the ones that make substantial money are few and far between a lot of culinary school graduates don't end up being chefs they end up being cooks and sous chefs for a long time waiting on their break to be the chef.

And it's in a hot kitchen, and it turns out it's really hard work making beautiful, gourmet, tasty food. I think I need to take a break right now. But, yeah, it's really hard work. And it's not a, you know, 50% of the graduates of culinary school do not make great money. They end up, you know, cooking somewhere, which you can do, by the way, without culinary school. So you need to have gotten your fingers into that business a little bit i'd love for you to spend this summer in a kitchen somewhere uh if you can sous chef great if you can uh just do prep work or something that's great but i want you to get in

there and feel the heat of those stoves and the sweat and i want you to listen to the bitchy customers and i want you to experience what it's going to be like doing what you're talking about doing before you make this choice. I'm not saying you should not go to culinary school. I'm saying that television has romanticized it to the point that I'm a little bit afraid of you having an unrealistic expectation of exactly what you're stepping into, sir. Yeah. So go in that kitchen, sweat, and chop some asparagus spears for a little bit

and figure out if this is really what you want to do before you invest your entire savings, your parents' savings for higher education on this. I would do that. I would say that about a lot of different things, by the way, if it had been unfairly romanced by television. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, that's where I would tell you to go on it.

It is not as glamorous as it looks like when Gordon Ramsay's yelling at somebody. And his is spelled S-A-Y, by the way. The number of times he and I are confused is unbelievable. But anyway, it's not only spelled different. He has great hair. I don't have any. He yells. I don't much.

Let's talk about that offline, Dave. Sam is in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Hey, Sam. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. How you doing, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. O'Neill? It's an honor to talk to you guys. You too sir. How can we help? I'm in engineering school right now and I lost my internship at the first part of the year due to you know COVID slowdowns and stuff like that. So I ended up having to take out a student loan in the first part of last year.

I'm sorry, the first part of this year. And it's $9,000. And I just got a new internship that I'll start next week. And it's a 30% bump in pay. And I was wondering, should I use that 30% to cashflow next semester, which is my graduating semester or pay off the debt? Now cashflow your next semester, man. Get through college. Don't worry about the $9,000 right now.

Wish you would have called this before you made that decision. We would have watched you through that process, but that's there. We can't go backwards. That's cool. But the next thing is we want to make sure this $9,000 doesn't turn into $18,000. All right? So cash flow it. Get through college 100% without borrowing no more money. And pile up as much cash as you can in the process, that 30% included.

If you don't need that 30%, I want you to graduate college. I want you to still be in the bank after you land the new job. When you land the new job, you've got that money laying there. That'll jumpstart towards the nine, right? Yes. Yes, sir. But let's hold it as an insurance policy. Yeah, let's hold it as an insurance policy through graduation and through the first apartment.

Okay. Yes, sir. the first apartment okay yes sir the insurance policy is a to ensure graduation b ensure graduation debt free yes you know so first goal do no more harm yeah second goal clean up the debt yep good stuff very good stuff yeah a lot of people are you know it's uh because if you in your he's not going to do this, but sometimes we get the same question. It's like, you know, do I pay off the student loan and then turn around, take out another one to go next semester? No, I mean, you'd be better off just to pay. You're swapping dollars.

You're swapping pockets. Right. You'd be better off to just pay it and pay your way through and then go back and address the student loan later. Don't swap pockets. That's he's not he's not got that exact situation because he sounds like he's got to track all the way out debt-free, and that's a good plan. And then this extra money should still be laying there. Yeah. I sure hope so.

I sure hope that's the way it works out for him. That's good. Good stuff. Real good stuff. I like that question, man. I mean, thanks for calling and asking because we need to remind the people moving forward hey listen don't pile up any more debt stay away from it yeah exactly anthony o'neill ramsey personality my co-host today this is the ramsey show We'll see right back. Anthony O'Neill Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Debbie is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. My honor. How can we help? I just got done paying $31,846 in debt. I am a single female.

I'm currently living in an apartment. Way to go. And I have, pardon? Way to go. Thank you. I currently have $1,410 in my money market account. And I've been working with an accountability buddy to help keep me on budget. He helped me get a budget.

And now he wants me to, I'm working on baby step three. It should take me to the end of 2022 to get $12,000 into my money market account. And he said he also wants me to start saving up for a house for a 20% down payment on a condo. And he said he wants me to put the money in a Roth IRA so it can get a little more interest than a money market. And then he said, as soon as you have a 20% down payment for your condo, I want you to pull your money out of your Roth IRA plus whatever else I had saved up. And we're going to put that on a condo. And I would be buying this on my own. I know you want people to do 15-year fix, but I'm 55. I just turned 55, and I don't want $1,200 mortgage payments in my 70s. And I told him that, and he

said, well, maybe we need to go to a 30-year mortgage so you can get smaller payments. And then I said, I could just treat that like a debt snowball in baby step two. So my current rent is $844, which is 25% of my take-home pay. Because you said don't get a mortgage greater than 25% of your take-home pay. So that would mean I would need a mortgage right around $850. Well, your mentor is telling you a lot of the same things we tell you, but he's telling you a few things different than we tell you. Right.

I need to know your way, what is the best way or the wisest way to do this? You're making $40,000 a year? $67,308. When do you plan on retiring? 70, 72, 71, somewhere in there. Before Dave comes back in to give you some more wisdom, because he could definitely help out

with this age bracket. One of the things I don't like that your mentor is telling you to park the money in a Roth IRA. That's a bad move. I could definitely see you parking that into a mutual fund like an S&P 500

if it's going to be about three to five years. That's a great route. But if you put it inside a retirement account, you're going to pay interest and penalties. Not interest, you're going to pay penalties. And so I don't want that to happen. So that's the very first thing.

And then for me, I could be here. And Dave, please quit me if I'm wrong. But at this age bracket, I'm not in a rush to move. Like, do you have to move into a home? I don't need to move in. He just said you're paying $850 a month in rent right now, and he said rent is only going to go up. So when you're 70... I agree that it's going to go up, and I do want you to get in a home ownership position because it'll stabilize your

budgeting as you go into retirement. But I would not do more than a 15-year fixed. I think you can do better than end of 2022 to finish your emergency fund. That sounds like that's taking too long to me. Definitely don't use a Roth. Completely agree with Anthony on that. Use a Roth for your retirement savings, but not for your saving up for a house. And no, we don't do a 30. We do a 15. Because you don't do a 30 we do a 15 because you

don't want a 30 will pay off in 30 years you don't want 15 will pay off in 15 years and and you're going to do it you're going to be okay you're going to select a home that fits that and you don't have to put down a full 20 to purchase it just saves you pmi if you do it saves your private mortgage insurance if you do so what i would do is finish this emergency fund faster. I would not use a Roth. I would do a 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. But I think you've got some other stuff coming out of this check that you're not counting here. Take-home pay, when we say a fourth of your take-home pay, we don't mean after health insurance, after retirement, or after payments you're paying out of your check.

We mean after taxes. Yeah. And $67,000 should be bringing home more than you're bringing home just after taxes. So you've got something else coming out of your check there, or you're getting a big refund, and you're going to need to adjust your W-4s and get your refund down to where it's zero. You don't want to be getting a big refund every year so um you should be getting home with more cash than you're getting home with unless you've got it going to health insurance or something inside your your check there but take-home pay

is not um uh it is only it only means after taxes not after everything else so i think you to be able to afford a house, a little condo like you're talking about, get it on a fixed rate, a 15-year, and you do not want to go into retirement, the end of your life with a bunch of debt still on a house because you took out a 30 and hoped you were going to snowball it. No, just don't buy it if you can't put it on a 15. Yeah. But I think you can, and I think you'll be able to figure it out. Good call.

And you're doing really good. Great call. She knows her numbers. She does. She knows exactly where she is. She does. She does. Now, Dan, let me ask you this question, though, because it's a learning experience for me.

When I hear someone of that age educate me and tell me where I'm wrong at in in my thinking i get a little nervous to tell my grandmother to go buy a home you know i'm saying like because there's so much more responsibilities than just the mortgage payment that comes with that well a condo i mean a condo doesn't have the exterior maintenance you're absolutely right you got the interior maintenance and stuff here's the problem the number the largest item in your personal budget the typical person's personal budget, is their mortgage payment. True. And it's a rent payment.

And if it's a rent payment, it's going to go up every year. If it's mortgage payment, it's not. It's going to stay flat. And when you can get it paid off, you got rid of the biggest item in your budget in your last years, and you've stabilized you're destabilized when you're a renter because you're at other people's house yes and they can do all kinds of stuff like make you move and everything else and so but you've stabilized your life by owning okay and by fixing the payment and or by getting it paid off completely it's even more stabilized makes sense so it's a stabilizing

factor for your uh last 20 years of life you know whatever that is if you go say from uh you know 70 to 90 or something like that that kind of a thing now you know the older you are the more you think okay but um you know my grandpa used to say i'm not buying green bananas you know so uh you know you just you do start to think about what you're purchasing and so forth but um coleman and i took a call the other day from a lady said she was going to sell her land to her 85 year old uncle and i'm like why is he buying land you know it's just but but but it's okay i just you know what what is the thought process behind that in his case he had a good thought process but but um yeah it's the same reason we teach people with the baby steps millionaire the everyday millionaires to people doing the baby steps to become millionaires

they become everyday millionaires to get their home paid off because that's one of the bigger elements of wealth building yes as well that's one of the two things that most of the millionaires have done they've got their home paid off okay and uh so it's still all parlays in there together but but uh you know if you're 92 makes no sense you know maybe not yeah you know i you know i hope you lived 107 right but um but the statistical averages are not in your favor at that point so no i probably wouldn't go by then but she's only 55 i mean, she's got life expectancy of 30 years at this point. So average death age of a female in America right now is 74 of a male is 72. But that includes infant mortality and teenage death. And so when you make it healthy into your late 50s, early 60s, you've got a very high statistical likelihood of making it into your 90s.

Very high. And so, I mean, that's just because that's the way the averages work out. So it's good questions, good discussion. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 14, 15, The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps. Bobby Knight said, The key is not the will to win thought to their steps. Bobby Knight said, The key is not the will to win. Everybody has that.

It is the will to prepare to win that is important. Woo! There you go. Robert Sweathers, Roberts in Minneapolis. Hey, Robert, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? The question about going through a divorce, long story short, my wife and I went through

your program, paid everything off, and now she wants a change of lifestyle. And so I need to buy her half off. The house is paid for, 401K, savings accounts all fully funded. The question is, do I use a QDRO and roll my 401K over to her with the interest rates? Should I go borrow money against the house? Not sure what to do. I'm sorry. Yeah. What's the house worth? Probably $350,000. Why are you wanting it? Just because I don't feel like going through more change right now.

And until I figure out which direction my life's going, I just thought I'd just keep the house for now. So you need about $150,000 to buy her out, right? For the house, but all the other assets, I need probably around the $300,000 price range. What other assets? 401Ks. Oh, you got to, yeah. So how much is in the 401K?

I have about $340,000 in there right now. Okay, so she's getting half that, she's getting half the house, right? Pretty much, yeah. So you could give her the whole 401k and keep the house correct do you have anything else well all the cars i get both uh she has a small 401k but that's all tallied up in there basically i'm gonna have to give her about 300300,000 for her to walk away. She doesn't want anything. She's just up

and left. She wants to start living like no other now rather than later. What do you make? With overtime, I'm right around that $120,000 120 how old are you i'm 47 is it just bothers me that you have no money in a paid for house because that's where you're going to end up and so you got to go you got to go like you got to go gangbusters into retirement now and build it, right?

Right. And that's what basically I'm asking is, do I take out a mortgage and go gangbusters on that? No. Go gangbusters or do I half and half it? No, I would just do the QR deal on the 401k and clear the house, but I'm not sure I want to do that. I, I, I'm, uh, but I mean, if you're going to keep the house, that's the way to do it. I'm just questioning whether you should keep the house. Yes.

Probably in the future. Uh, once I, you know, like I said, I was pretty taken aback from all this and, uh, you know, just right now, you know, know i gotta make a decision quickly uh and i just looking at options and thought you know until i figure out what i want to what do you uh what do you do for a living i'm a maintenance supervisor how long you've been doing that uh i've been in the maintenance field pretty much my whole life, but I just got promoted to supervisor here about two years ago. How long ago was this announcement made by her that you were divorcing?

Four weeks. Okay. This is not what you want to do do but it's what you should do you need to drag this out a little bit slow down okay because you're still reeling from the news and six months from now you're probably selling this house and so i think you're selling this house and giving her her half, and you do the QRDO on her half of the 401K, and then you come out with $150,000 to go buy another property, and she comes out with $150,000 cash, and you've still got your 401K going. And I think that's going to end up five years from now having been a better decision.

Yeah, I want to echo that. I want you to take as much time as you can. Because you need to be able to process emotionally the change. That's why I'm telling you to drag it out. Absolutely. And that's why I was saying I'm just going to stay in the house for now until I figure out process the change, I guess. So does she not want the house herself? No, no.

She wants the money. She wants to start living like no other right now. Okay. brought that up like six months ago that you know we should sell the house and move to a you know a apartment or something and start you know retirement early i guess is in her eyes but and here's another thing too that i want to add it may not happen but i'm just saying if you could drag this out a little bit like dave said she may end up changing her mind about this situation as well. Yeah.

You're making the decision in the heat of battle right now, and I don't blame you for that. I would be too. I understand that. But we have the – Anthony and I have the benefit of standing on the sidelines and making the call rather than being in the game and have to make the call. And so it's easier to be a Monday morning quarterback. I understand that. I just got a feeling that if you had a little bit more time to emotionally process this, you could release this house

and just it be sold and you all split it. And I think five years from today, that's going to have been a better move for you. I just want you to give yourself time to emotionally process it. You feel like it's chop-chop, you've got to do it right now, and nobody says that. You can say this is going to take three months, and we're going to have to think about it. All right.

Hard to do that, though. It really is. It's easy to bring something to an end. If something's coming to an end, it's easy to bring something to an end if something's going to an end it's easy to get it to the end you know yeah but um yeah very hard robert i'm so sorry i can hear the pain in your voice brother you know david this is why i spend a lot of time talking to you know i have a huge tribe of single people just make sure that you're making the right decision up front don't want to make people feel bad who are going through divorces but if we can help you get married the right way and stay married one time it's a whole lot easier down the road you

know and as a single person that's why i'm looking at the people like yourself and sharon and my parents because we're going to go through some hard times but i'm going to go through the hard times yeah and i want the hard times to end me and my future wife so yeah you know this is sad you know it's this is our third call today around divorces and just hearing the stress behind the money what do i do do i cash in my 401k do i do this you know a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction one of my buddies says it does divorce recovery and it occurs to me then at this point really what you're doing assuming it is 100 over okay this is a negotiation now and um the law will give her 50 that's the truth but

if she's really desperate to just take off into whatever you probably could negotiate for a lot less than 50 yeah if you're willing to make the decision quickly yeah yeah you know i just want to be free okay how free you want to be how quick you how much you willing to pay for that quick freedom because otherwise it's going to take a little while and uh you know because he with the most patience in a negotiation wins amer America may hate me after this one, but this is why I'm strongly, James, considering a prenup as a single man. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

Now we got a whole other show to do. That's why I said it right towards the end of the show. Just as the music comes up, he drops a grenade in my studio. James sends it right on up. Hey, don't drag me into this. Good show, Anthony. Good show, James and Kelly. Great work today. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Did you know you can listen to The Ramsey Show on your smart speaker? Just tell Alexa, Google Assistant, or Siri to play The Ramsey Show podcast. Check out all Ramsey network shows

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