The Ramsey Show - App - If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome, America. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships alongside the graceful, the fabulous Rachel Cruz, fresh off of her first inaugural ball, I might add. We might hear about that. We might not. She joins me.

I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. And these are serious topics, but we like to have some fun. We do our best to smile and coach you up because we want you to win. So it's going to be fun today. You ready to go, partner? Let's do it. She's ready.

Megan joins us in Des Moines, Iowa. Megan, how can we help today? Hi. So excited to talk to you today. I listen every day, so this is kind of surreal. Oh, thank you. I'm looking for some advice on bringing up estate planning with my multimillionaire in-laws who are unwilling to have a conversation with my husband and I,

but state that he and his brother will both be taken care of when they pass. How do we inquire so we know where the assets are in the event of long-term care or their passing? Wow. Man. Sounds like you've tried,term care or their passing. Wow. Man. Sounds like you've tried, and they're not interested. So I'm not sure that there's some unique strategy we're sitting on top of, because it sounds like they're like, look, you're fine. We'll let you know when we're gone.

Sounds like to me. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, it's a 50-50. You know, it's just my husband and his brother, And he said, you know, you're taking care of. Let me ask you this. What is it that you all want to know? Let's just assume that they were like, sure. What is it that you're looking to discover?

Well, mostly there are multiple properties involved, as well as a business that my father-in-law owns. And we have no idea, because we're not in that specific field, what we would need to do in the event of, you know, potentially selling that or his passing. So yeah, that's our major concern. All right, so that reveals the answer to my next question, Rachel, is going to be why. Like, why do you want to know what it is that you want to know? And it seems like you guys are trying to be thoughtful, strategic. Yeah. And how have the conversations gone so far? Because you obviously know that they're not interested in talking about it. So who has brought them,

who has brought up the idea of having these conversations to them? So my husband has brought them up. He is the oldest and we have a young family, so he's kind of more thinking about the future for those reasons. And they've also made it very clear that they do not want me involved in the conversations. Why? So that throws another added bonus. Well, I'm not sure. Do you have a good relationship with them now? Barely. I mean, we're not best friends, but it's not, you know, adversarial. And what about his brother? best friends, but it's not adversarial. And what about his brother? Is he married? He is not.

Okay. I think you've got to take a sign here. And I want to go back to my line of questioning. Yeah. So to the best of your ability, you guys need to just run a scenario, feels like to me, where you go, all right, let's say they give us this property and that property. What would we need to know to be able to be prepared to make the most of that? Go ahead and run that exercise out. You don't need to know which ones. If you know the whole portfolio and you know that you could get, and I'm getting, I mean, let me just walk you through this. How

many properties are we talking about total? Three properties, two are rentals. One is a, you know, a main home home when which they live in and the total is about 2.5 million okay great and they are owned assets go do your homework on those three properties what is it that you feel like you would need to know if you were to come into ownership today whatever you told us your concerns were go ahead and figure that out yeah and i think too megan you know you can only control what you can control they're not they're i mean you guys have kind of asked them and they're not going to give it so yeah like ken said earlier in the call we don't have some secret like line to give you that suddenly they decide to tell you everything so what i would do what i can control

if i was in your scenario and this was my parents is my sibling because that's where they can that's where the the butting heads could start to happen the fractured relationships it's not the parents because if they're gone they're gone who's left is him and his brother so if i were him i mean i would get in a room with his brother and be like hey let's just play like to your point let's play out some scenarios just so we can so we can plan out as much as we can with the information we have and then and then that's all we can do i mean so i would just make sure that that relationship is is in a healthy place because the calls that we do get a lot on here are when a family member dies and it's handed off to siblings and their adult siblings with other kids. It starts to get messy and all this. So if you can shore up that relationship, that's what you can do.

But yeah, I mean, you can't force them to tell you guys. And we're on team Megan. Okay, Megan. So take this the right way. I'm on your team. Okay. They've made it clear for some reason, and I'm not a therapist and nor am I a mind reader, but it's pretty clear to me that they've made it clear that they don't want you involved. So they're feeling something, whether you did something or not, that's not the point. The point is they've laid out a boundary i feel like and it doesn't matter why

we don't know and you may not know but you need to respect the boundary because it's only going to create what rachel is saying some tension so you need to go you know what a they're not my parents b they've made it clear to my hubs that they don't want me involved so you know what i'm not involved and that would be my advice from a relationship standpoint. Let this go. Because I can tell you that we can feel it on you right now. There's some angst that you have. You can hear it on you because this is irritating to you.

And that's okay. But you got to deal with that because you don't have any control. Rachel nailed that. So sorry, we can't give you a hack. I mean, other than, you know, hiring some former CIA operative yeah get information yeah and I think you know the family money dynamic you want to you want to wade in carefully especially as an in-law and like my in-laws are so wonderful they they are very open with us and every other year we get together as a family and his dad has even said to the in-laws like I want your thoughts and opinions I mean he's i mean they're very kind in that way but i still am very aware i'm not their

kid like like like there's you know what i mean like there's still a and even like i think even within the ramses like they know everything and and again mom and dad would love and appreciate and respect the opinions of the in-laws for sure but there's still just that small level of just social awareness of like okay these are not my parents or you know i'm the in-laws for sure. But there's still just that small level of just social awareness of like, okay, these are not my parents. Or, you know, I'm the in-law that I think is appropriate to, I don't know, maybe people disagree with that. But I think there's a level of like,

when you are their kid in blood, there's a level of holding that they have that an in-law never will. Yeah, I mean, what went off in your head when you heard her say, they've made it clear that they don't want me involved? I'm just curious, your female intuition and also your professional intuition. What did you think?

That it's obviously not a great relationship. That's what I thought. Because then you asked her and she said, fairly. It's okay. When someone asked me, if you asked me, do you have a good relationship with somebody? And if I drop fairly on you. You know, it's okay yeah when someone asked me if you asked me do you have a good relationship somebody and if i drop fairly on you you know it's probably not going well i don't think it's great it's certainly not great and i think there's some problems i will say though too fairly i will say too it depends on the day the that generation the parents generation too is a

more private generation right you think about late boomers, even into the generation, you know, before them. So in her defense, they could just be very private people that don't feel comfortable regardless of whether they have a relationship or not. And her reasons were good, but I think they can get their, the reasons why, I think they can plan for it either way. You know, it's fun? People call us like this. They want to know what we think. But you know what? We want to know what our audience thinks. We have a new audience coming in all the time, growing audience.

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Quick break, and then you hear more of us. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts, and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

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at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruz is joining me. We're here for you, America. You got a question about your money? You got a question about your income? That's what you, America. You got a question about your money. You got a question about your income. That's what you got today. You got two people love to weigh in on that. And we work together to help you. So 888-825-5225. That's the number. Let's go to

River. Now see, that's a great name. If my name was River Coleman, I'd be far more credible. Exceed the success. I have a lot more instagram followers as well but alas my name is ken but i'm already jealous river in columbus ohio river i'm jealous but happy fiance is 23. Together, we have roughly $151,000 in debt. That's between student loans and an $18,000 auto loan. That's it? Just the student loans and the truck? Yes. Okay. That's it. My student loans, I have, I think it's like $33,000 and the rest is her. I think she has like $120,000. Okay. But yeah, it's confusing. It's all through Sally Mae. Yeah. What was her degree in? So she's a multimedia journalist.

She's a news reporter at a news station in West Virginia. What did she get her degree in? Mass media? Multimedia. Did she go out of state to a private college? Where did she go to school? She did. Yeah, she did. And how much is she making now?

So she's making $18 an hour. I'm making $18 an hour. But her commute is like an hour and 20 minutes. Oof. Okay, so how much are you guys bringing in a month after taxes? Like what's hitting your paycheck right now? Or like what's hitting your bank account, you guys together? So together, so we aren't joint accounts yet so right now

my situation i'm bringing in roughly 2400 a month um she's around the same okay um what are you doing for work so I work at a credit union, and yeah. Okay. What do you want to do? What are you aiming for? You know, I'm not really sure. I'm still in school. I'm a junior in college right now getting my bachelor in business administration. I'm paying this semester out of pocket trying to cut the loans out. And the reason I ask the question,

I'm not trying to solve that problem right now, but I am trying to figure out what can we do to get more income because that's a part of this equation. Well, and she's not making, I mean. Neither one of them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're very limited right now, and that's a part of this equation. Yeah, and I did just get a promotion, too.

So I'll be making $21 an hour starting in the middle of February. Okay, so help Rachel out. She'll walk you through this, but I know you guys are engaged. What is your debt? What is yours? Is yours $155, or is that both of you? That's together. Well, of you? That's together. Well, but you guys aren't together.

And so just to help Rachel separate what your debt is versus the fiancé's debt. Well, yours is $33,000 student loans, right? Oh, you got that? Yeah, and hers is $120,000. Yeah, mine's $33,000 student loan, $18,000 truck. Okay, I got that part. I misunderstood. Okay, got it.

Never mind. All right. So we got the breakdown. Yeah, but is she making close to what, $30,000? That's what I'm trying to understand. Yeah, she's making roughly like $31,000. Okay. So, I mean, here's the fast track of it all, which you're probably not going to like.

But if getting out of debt is your number one idea, you guys both have to make more money. And if this is her dream and what she wants to do, is she only on air for a certain amount of time? What are her hours? Is she an early morning anchor or reporter, you said?

She's midday. She's nine to six. There's no money in that industry at this point well that's how i mean like i don't know for a short term there's a shift and you go find something making 45 right i mean like you're just like even 15 000 more with a side hustle which i know crushes her dreams and this is this is not to pick on your wife river or you but america this is this is what we're talking about we talk about student loans she took out a hundred and twenty thousand dollars in student loans to make thirty

thousand dollars a year yeah so very limited opportunity i mean i mean honestly and so there is a there there is a a lesson to be learned always um but for you guys i mean you're in it now so obviously you can't go backwards so i mean if i, if I were her, I'm like, you know what, I'm, I'm going to do anything for two to two or three years. So River is she's, is she one? And by the way, do I understand this and support this? Yes. Is she one that goes, I want to take my shot and I want to go to New York, LA. I want to be in a top 10 market one day. Is that her thing? Is she really ambitious for that? Is that a clear goal? She really is. Okay then. So here's my point. So if I were coaching her one-on-one, I'd say, all right, so you do have to stay in the game. However, you are going to have to work other jobs,

do some freelance publicity, do something when you're not on set to increase her income. She's got to at least look for a 25% to 40% bump through some type of industry-adjacent work in this season. I wouldn't recommend she drop out if her goal is to move up in market. Which, by the way, that's how you make more money is you go from Columbus to San Diego, San Diego to Miami. Well, you go from reporter to anchor.

I mean, like there's like, right, there's, yeah, for sure. But that takes time and they're limited positions. That is a hang on and be really, really good at your job. And I would go, I mean, I could be wrong too, but I feel like that's a hard industry to have any level of freelance. You may be better waiting tables from seven to ten at night. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's just, it's the income problem, River, for you guys. I mean, you just have to up your income. It absolutely is. So, and here's a question. So the loans, her loans are broken down to like four or five different loans and they're $22,000, $20,000. They're attached with a 12% interest rate. I was thinking, you know, it's probably best to, you know, refinance these loans, get it consolidated and, you know, kind of go that route. Yeah, you can for sure.

I mean, I would say that's the only type of debt I would recommend consolidating are student loans because you usually don't go back into that debt. A lot of people play this game because I think math is their problem and interest rates are their problem, but their problem really is the behavior, right? The secret of getting out of debt

is not the small interest rate, even though that can help you to a degree. The real secret of getting out of debt is this intensity, this gazelle intensity we talk about where it's like no lifestyle, nothing, you're working insane amount of hours and you just get it paid off, right? And so I think that I wouldn't put a lot of hope. But again, I would. Yes, if you guys can get a better interest rate, again, it's the one type of debt I would be okay with you guys consolidating. But don't have your hope that because you consolidate, it's going to be okay.

Do you know what I mean? Like that there still needs to be that level of grit with you guys in this because- Oh, absolutely. Yeah, but yeah, if you get a better interest rate, for sure, River, I think that that's a fine move. But again, math is usually not the problem. And I always want to reiterate that when we're getting out of debt. It's not that it really is this hope

in who you guys are as a couple and teaming up and saying, okay, this is what our life's going to look like for the next three years. Yeah, I appreciate the call, River. And again, you guys can do this. It is not easy, but it is simple. For sure. And I mean, to just loosen the burden a little bit, that $18,000 truck, it's right on the border of selling or not. But if you can get that down, even if you're underwater, $2,000 to $3,000 and go get a beater, I mean, that's taking a chunk off too. So be considering that, River. We didn't ask, but if you look at the data, Rachel, I believe the number is the average

car payment in America right now is like north of $750. Yeah, a new one is $781. So let's just play off of that. So let's just imagine that his car payment is somewhere between $500 and $700. I don't think that's a stretch. No, no. That's a massive raise for a young man like this who's about to get married. That's right.

If you split the difference, it goes $600. I don't have to take my boots off to add this one. That's $7,200 a year. 600 times 12. Yeah, you know, I don't have to use my digits. I can do that quick multiplication.

I paid attention. Ken! I paid attention to that level. Old man Ken jokes. Yeah, I know. You like them once you get them. I know. Once you get them, she likes them.

Sometimes I have to explain it during the commercial. River, we're cheering for you all. Come on, River. You can do it. Keep on flowing. This is The Ranch. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-ReFi. Y-ReFi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted means when the borrower cannot make the required payment. So if that's you and your student loan, contact Y-Refi.

They can offer a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey right now. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Chase in Missouri. I'm new to investing and was playing around with the investment calculator on your website. I found that if you invested $1,000 for my baby at 10% and never put any more in, she could retire at the age of 70 with over $1 million.

Not $100 million, $1 million. Is that right? And if so, why isn't this common practice? I don't have my investment calculator pulled up, but over 70 years, are you going to pull it up, Kim? I'll do my best. Yeah, do.

Yeah, Ramsey Investment Calculator. Yeah, I mean mean compound interest is powerful and over 70 years i probably wouldn't be surprised um if you put no more in at 10 percent of a rate of return and so why isn't this common practice you ask well um i mean there's maybe a couple of reasons one i think parents have don't have a thousand dollars to put in i think there's a level of margin that people are trying to find um i mean also you know when you are investing for a child you know the recommendation of of you having to be really over it because a minor can't open up their own account so it would be your name in it and you, being able to transfer it to them long-term is an option too. So,

and investing, I would say too, $960,000. So here's what we got. I put in the current age of one. He may be thinking zero, but you know, I just did quick numbers. Retire at 70, you only put $1,000 in and you never contribute monthly. And you're on this number, you are getting an annual return of 10%. So I could drop that to 8% for the cynics. And let's see what that does. So it's a lot different, 245,000. So there you go. But yeah, the question holds, why don't more people do it? Because they don't understand compound interest. How many years or years have we taught that simple lesson of compound interest? And just most people don't even think about it. Yeah. And I think in investing overall, it can be an intimidating factor of money. And if you don't feel like you fully understand it,

you're less apt to probably go into that world, I would say. But yeah, there's power in that. And then always, you know, I think about 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency in cash. So to have $1,000 that's not for you and your emergency fund, you know, there's a lot of people that don't have it. But I agree with you. I mean, Chase, that's great. By the way, I adjusted the number to zero. I didn't know if the thing would let me do it. So a newborn baby, it would get to $1,065,261 at the age of 70 at a 10% annual return. So there you go. There you go. It was correct.

You know, I usually let the money personalities do that, James, but I feel pretty good there after a test run right there under pressure. I'm so proud of you. I'm glad you did it. I'm having fun with this, folks, because if I can do it while hosting a show with my squirrel running around in my brain, you need to be going to RamseySolutions.com and start plugging it in. Use the investment calculator.

Imagine how much fun you can have with it when you're not hosting a show while doing it. So it's great. I think that was a wonderful exhibition there. Madison is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Madison, how can we help today? Yeah, my question is, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Of course. My question is, should I pay off my house while continuing to look for work?

Tell us about the look for work first, and what is your bridge right now as far as income? You have savings you're living off of? Give us a quick picture. There is no income. Zero income. There is no income. Okay. Correct. I had been out of work almost a year. So I had set money aside. I've

been following the Ramsey program. I set money aside enough to get me through whatever I needed to get to, and that year is coming up. So I have... Have you been paying off your house through that emergency fund that you had set aside? That was just money for housing and bills. I have a separate emergency fund as well. Oh, okay. So what I'm asking you, though, is I'm just curious, that money you had set aside, had you been paying your house payment, paying it off, working on that up until this point through that fund?

Yes. Ah? Yes. Ah. Yes. Well, no, I wouldn't be doing – I mean, we would tell you to slow down, pause everything. You've got to get some employment here. I love that you had an extra rainy day fund. Yeah.

How much do you have saved, Madison, total? I have – let's see, what were the numbers here? I have about almost $4,000. That's your emergency fund? Well, so there's $1,900 left for what I had just for the housing expenses. Right. And then I have $2,000 in an emergency fund. I just broke it down individually. Okay. And you asked if you should pay off your house. How much is left on your mortgage?

$72,000. What would you pay it off with? Are you saying putting extra towards your house above the mortgage? No, paying it off. No, that's the right question. Madison, you don't have any income. Where would you get the $72,000 to pay it off? So that's and I have enough to pay it off

as well. Okay, you buried the lead. So you have $72,000 somewhere else? Yes. Okay. How much money do you have total? What's your net worth? Cash.

Sorry, not net worth, just cash. Okay. So I don't have a calculator in front of me, so I have $72,000, $1,900, and $2,000. Okay. Where is the $72,000 currently? Is it investments or just a savings account? It's in savings. Okay.

What were you going to use that for? What was that fund for in general? I had designated it for, I had it designated in separate accounts. So say for example, I needed a car. Okay. I could pay off a car. Okay. So you had that. Do you have any retirement? I do. How much do you have in that? About $250,000. Okay, good. How old are you? I'm in my mid-50s. Okay. Okay. That's going to be okay. If you were to never touch that, that, you know, by the time you're in your 70s, that's going to be a really nice number. Here's what I'm confused about, Rachel. Madison, why aren't you working? I understand it's hard sometimes to get back into a market, but to go 12 months with zero income

doing something and you're whittling down these other two accounts, I don't understand why you're not working. That's what I don't understand either. No, no, no, no. Well, let me rephrase. What field were you in? Medical, and I also have a degree in law enforcement. What were you doing? What was the last job you had 12 months ago? I was working in the medical field. Doing what? As an administrative, I held an administrative role.

Making how much? Around $50,000 a year. Okay. My point is you don't sit around, and not that you're sitting, let me rephrase that. You don't just keep applying and do all this, and if nothing's happening, you don't just keep pulling money out of the savings account. I'm proud of you and glad you had it, but you need to start to happen to life, and life is happening to you. I don't understand with that skill set why you aren't applying for multiple different types of jobs. I don't care if it's a shift manager at Home Depot or at Banana Republic or I'm driving, I'm doing something. You have got to be bringing an income because I guess you don't need a whole lot. What do you need to actually survive each month to cover your bills?

We only got about a minute, so give me a real quick answer. I would say $1,300. You need $1,300 to survive. Correct. Go make $1,300 in February doing something. Now, I want to bring it back to Rachel to answer the bigger question. She's got $72,000 in the bank. No, i wouldn't until i have a stable income coming in i agree yeah okay yeah um to make sure that you can eat and everything but yeah i would um you know you've set yourself up really well madison and i just don't want you to to continue to be in this rut that you've been in to a degree for for a year and because what's happening is it's just like everything's shrinking shrinking shrinking shrinking shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, shrinking. And I want to stop that momentum and let it go the other way. And to Ken's point, it's not like a crazy amount.

$1,300. That's the great news. You can do this, Madison. And you know what? There's lots of things that you can do. Hold on the line, Madison. Can we give her a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle? Read this and do this and go get paid.

This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. proximity principle. Read this and do this and go get paid. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate could free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator, and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5%. And you can get your interest rate even

lower if you sign up for auto pay. But if your situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move. Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bankank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman,

and we're here for you, America. Thank you for being with us. Hey, we just had a wildly successful virtual event last night, and that leads me to tell you we are coming back with part two of what was a successful event last year. It's a two-night virtual event known as Investing Essentials. This is with Dave Ramsey and George Camel. This was a wildly successful event last year because people know that investing, Rachel, is very confusing. It's intimidating. And so in this event, we're going to cover everything through maximizing your 401k and mutual funds. And then Dave is going to give his personal playbook on how he invests in real estate. So this is not an Instagram reel

with eight cuts and cool music designed to get you to click a link. This is a tried and true investing strategy that Dave has done for many decades. So that's also a popular part of this. It is happening March 4 and 5. So put that on your calendar or go ahead right now to ramsaysolutions.com slash events, ramsaysolutions.com slash events, and you can sign up. Tickets start at $199, March 4 and 5. So that will be fun. Love to see you there. All right, Bobby's up in Atlanta, Georgia. Bobby, how can we help today?

Hey guys, how are you? Good. How are you doing today? Doing all right. So my fiance and I are getting married in April. All right. Congrats. Thank you. She was born and raised in Scotland, and she still lives there. So we've been long distance for about almost eight years. Where in Scotland? She's on the West Coast. So she's basically right on the water about 40 minutes from Glasgow. Oh, man.

Wow. I love Scotland. Are y'all going to move there? Yes. No, she's actually moving here to Georgia. Well, that's a downgrade, Bobby. Wow. I love Scotland. Are y'all going to move there? Yes. No, she's actually moving here to Georgia. Well, she's really trading it in. That's a downgrade, Bobby. Downgrade for her.

Bobby, you must be a very convincing or charming young man. Maybe very handsome, too. I'd do my best. Or at least I've fooled her well. That's right. Hey, real quick question, and we'll get down to the important stuff. What America wants to know, is the wedding in Scotland, and are you going to wear a kilt i so yes it is in scotland um and it's basically it's right on one of the locks there and i am not wearing a kilt how many kilts will be at the

wedding though i'm a little disappointed no i bet a lot of the attendees will wear kilts true actually you would you would be surprised because half of her family is English, and, of course, all of my family is American, and so there's only probably going to be 25% of the people there wearing kilts. 25% is pretty good, though. I'll take it. And, Bobby, I know I'm not getting an invite, but if I was to be invited, the Coleman line of— The crest or your plaid?

I would wear one. I really would. With the high socks, I would wear one. I bet you would. I really would. With the high socks, I'd commit to the whole outfit. I would bagpipe down the aisle. That's great. We are having bagpipes down the aisle. There is that. Bobby, listen.

I could be talked into hosting the reception. Email my team. We'll talk about it. We'll see if we can make it work. All right, Bobby. This is great. So you guys grew up. Different money culture, way you looked at i don't know well that's what he said no he said that she grew up in scotland it's different okay so go ahead what's

your question bobby she's correcting me i know where he's going so um yeah she she doesn't know what a 401k is doesn't know what a roth ira is and different culture we don't know what a 401k is doesn't know what a Roth IRA is and she's sort of she's sort of familiar with the baby steps just from what I've talked to her about it and she knows who Dave Ramsey is but we're I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to kind of get her on board with the baby steps and kind of I she's a little bit nervous or hesitant about the intensity of the baby steps sure okay so there's that and then the culture yeah for sure okay so I would start high level with you guys and just being agreeing on value systems at which money will play in on the relationship so a value system would be um you know when we have money or do we want to be giving some of this money is that part of our plan do we um how much um you know is savings something that she gives her a level

of security right is there um is debt a tool or is it a disease yes yes how is debt playing so less like i would go less baby steps and more just a little bit of that value system because that's a human thing, not an American thing. So you can look at money because they have money in Scotland. So it's just like, let's together get on the same page. Do they have money over there? Thank you for revealing that. And then how we implement it over here.

How does that look? So if we both agree, yes, savings is important. She may be more of a spender naturally, right? And that's okay. Opposites attract. But yes, we want to be saving for the future we want a good retirement so what's the best way to do that in america a 401k a roth irate right there's these vehicles at which you can do that um and if we have debt and we want to live without debt not have payments because that gives us peace and because we can use our income to go on great vacations and use our income to save for the future and to give, like, that's why we want to be

out of debt, right? So you kind of start high level. And then from there, the baby steps is just a plan to get you from point A to point B. Do you guys have debt? Right. We do not. We are debt free. Oh, that's great.

So that fast forwards everything. For sure. So now it's emergency fund. Yeah. Right out of the gate when you guys get married yeah is she on this is she agreeing that you guys want to work together as a team like does she see this as a topic of life to say like yeah yeah yeah absolutely we're gonna we're gonna do pretty much everything together okay um yeah and kind of right now she's kind of the breadwinnerner. I'm currently not employed because I'm finishing up my flight instructor rating. Nice.

And so I'll be a flight instructor pretty much immediately after we get married. What will your starting salary be? Do you have any idea? So it's going to be an hourly position, but ballpark, I'm hoping around $50,000. $35,000 would be like the absolute, absolute low. Okay. And how much will she be making? We don't know yet, just because we don't know what she's going to be doing. What's her profession?

Yeah, so she has a degree in international event management. So that kind of means she can do weddings. She can do corporate events. Yeah, so she has a degree in international event management. So that kind of means she can do weddings. She can do corporate events. Let me tell you something. Atlanta, if you guys are anywhere near the Atlanta area, that's a big event town. So that's good news. It's good news for her.

Yes. Yeah, so she's done everything under the sun, whether it's social media or event planning or serving. We're totally not worried about her finding a job. Amazing. Okay, so how much are you guys bringing in to the marriage, just money-wise? How much does she have? How much do you have? So on my side, we have about $38,000 in savings, and that comes from an inheritance.

Okay. And how about her? She's bringing probably over just shy of $10,000. Okay. Perfect. But both of us have very little expenses because we both live with our parents right now, and it just didn't make sense for us to move into apartments each and then have to move again. That's smart. I love that move.

That's great. And so when you guys get married, I guess you'll be renting probably for a year or two. Is that what you're thinking? Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's the plan. Perfect.

So yeah. So I mean, I think you guys are probably more on the same page than you realize. So I would sit down together and just say, okay, yeah, let's, um, let's like figure out, you know, the next couple of years and what we want our goals to be. And we, we have a goal of making a100,000, $50,000 and $50,000 or something, right? Kind of have an income goal. And then from there, we want to put some away for retirement. I think she'll love the emergency fund concept.

Yeah. Just big picture. I thought your advice was really great. Well, thank you, Ken. I mean that. They're already advanced in the baby steps in that. Yes, yes. They're going to start at baby step three.

And we build that. I think any woman, any human wants that safety. So explaining that concept to her. You're already halfway there, it looks like. And so the investing part that Rachel's talking about, and then saving for kids, college, and all that stuff, I would just ease her into it, man, and just focus on the positive

vision stuff because you don't have a problem that you're trying to fix right out of the gate. I thought it was great. Yeah. And I think, you know, making it a goal for a house. I mean, you guys are in a position that your emergency fund is pretty much done, I think. And then beyond that, like, okay, let's like run some numbers and dream. Winston, I just did this last week. And it's always a fun thing to do where you're like, all right, let's just dream. We do it every year. How much do we think we want for a down payment?

Then you put it in Excel or a calculator or whatever it is. How much do we need to save every year? How much do we need to save every month? You kind of start having these goals towards these dreams that you guys, a life that you're building together, which is beautiful. Hold on the line, Bobby. Taylor's going to pick up, and we're going to give you Financial Peace University for you guys, a life that you're building together, which is beautiful. Hold on the line, Bobby. Taylor's going to pick up

and we're going to give you Financial Peace University for you guys to watch these lessons together because that was really helpful for her. So fun. Yeah, just to kind of get these concepts of American way of doing money. By the way, a nod to our Scottish friends.

If you look, if you're watching, see this green sweater I have on. You can't see below the desk, but imagine me in a blue and green kilt right now that matches a sweater. I think it would look great. I'll be honest. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Alongside the lovely, talented, and my friend Rachel Cruz, I am just Ken.

But I am Kenuff, they tell me. Ken Coleman, your host today. There's a little Barbie reference. Did you catch that one? I did. I thought I appreciated it. Gotta pay attention, folks. Thanks for bringing in just the pop just the pop culture yeah i try i try to embrace the pop culture as much as i can it's good being middle-aged uh all right let's get right to the phones richmond

virginia my old stomping grounds used to live there when i worked for the governor of virginia in case you were wondering jake is there jake how can we help today hey guys thanks for taking my call today i I appreciate it. You bet. What's up? All right. So me and my wife, we have a question about paying off our debt. So currently, my wife and I were in our upper 20s, and we're facing quite an amount of student loan debt.

It's about $150,000. Now, we don't have any other debts, and we've paid off a good amount so far. We've paid off about $30,000 in total. All right. Nice. But we recently came across an amount of money in our savings. We have $30,000 saved up. And what we really would like some guidance on is how much of that to apply to our loan.

You know, we're in the stage of life where we kind of want to think about a family, possibly a home, some car issues coming up. But we know that we have a good amount we want to apply to this debt to get it taken care of. So let me get you guys guidance on what you think about putting that towards the debt. Sure. How much do you guys make a year? So gross, we make together around $200,000. Hey, very nice. So what's your plan as of now for the $150,000 to be paid off? How fast do you think you guys can do it?

18 months? Well, yeah, we were hoping within three years. 18 months would be ideal. Yeah, I mean, if you guys lived on $70,000, and then I'm thinking if you apply this $30,000, you could knock it out pretty quick so to answer yeah to answer your question you just swallowed really hard did you hear that because yeah 200s gross so you guys are probably coming in at what 130 after taxes

probably right around there right around there. Right around there. And if you lowered it to $120,000 and you guys lived off of $70,000, that would take you two years. Maybe if you did some extra work, incomes go up in general. Yeah, 18 to 24 months. So yes, to answer your question,

I would apply $29,000 of that $30,000, keep $1,000 for an emergency fund, and I would go all hands on deck i would not be thinking about a house while you have this debt um if you guys decide to start a family which we encourage people that yeah if getting married and starting a family don't don't not do those things because you have debt right so if you guys decide in six months like we feel like gosh it's time to start a family. Then if that's the case, I would pause everything, not pay extra on the student loans,

just keep them current and be piling up, you know, a big savings. And in nine months, you guys can put a lot in savings when you do that. And, and then, you know,

when baby comes and everyone's good, just apply that nine months of savings to back to the debt. So that would be a time deposit. And then, um, you know, as car stuff starts coming up and if you know, like, you know, a good amount ahead of time, then you, um, you know, be thinking about that. But, but, but if you don't have to replace a car while you have debt, I wouldn't, I mean, I would drive those things all the way through. What do you mean by car issues? Can you be more specific? yeah my car currently has um my wife's car is

good my car currently has around 350,000 miles and it's uh kind of gone out on me a few times this year so i feel like it's you know i'm really riding it to its last leg but you really feel like that might come up soon you think 350,000 miles what brand of car is it? Yeah, it's a Toyota. Yeah. It's been pretty good to me. I will tell you. Those Toyotas. Those Toyotas, man. We're a Toyota family. Toyota, Lexus, like in that family.

Yeah. Best cars you'll ever have. Yeah, I'm not trying to endorse it, but you hear that a lot, you know. Of course, our friend George would say Toyota. No, Toyota. He doesn't know how to say it. Toyota. And Hondas.

We'll give Hondas a shot, too. I would say, Rachel, I'm glad we brought this up because I think this car is literally a moment away from dying. How much can you, how much could you sell it for? What? What? I've been told not much. I've already tried.

2,000? I've been told less than 1,000. 1,000? How much? Less than 1,000. Yeah. You're out of your mind. What?

I don't know. $3,000. $3,000. You're out of your mind. $3,000. Some people may want a great Toyota that has lasted Jake from Richmond. I'll bet you it looks like it's got 350,000 miles on it too. Am I right, Jake? Yeah. Come on. Okay, so Jake, so what I would do, for real though,

if you feel like it is on its last leg, which I get, 350,000 miles it probably is. Try to rip somebody off for $3,000. But I would go get a $6,000 car. I would not go spend $20,000 on something. 100% agree. Go get a beater again that maybe has 200,000 miles. And for 18 months, two years, just drive that car.

And then after you guys are out of debt, that's when you can think about stepping up with cash into something else. But I would use as much of this money to put towards the principle of your student loans because that's going to help you guys so much. I mean, it really will from a mathematical standpoint. So I'd rather drive a crappy car and get this done. This is my favorite thing to do. Ken is on his laptop, Jake, just so I can give you context. I really enjoy this. And he is on a car website.

I got used cars for sale in Richmond, Virginia. Virginia you in the greater Richmond area look at that four thousand dollar car right around there yeah now it's a Dodge we got to get the guy a Toyota I'm not gonna give him a Dodge Avenger okay but but I but for crying out loud okay well I mean listen some of these cars I want to make the point that it's not a complete beater here let me just this is worth okay here we go a 2014 chevrolet impala all right uh 10 years old 4 000 bucks 4 000 bucks 142 000 miles it's a chevrolet yeah there you go it's not the greatest brand in the world but they're not expensive to fix either that's true and uh it's america and have an impala it is famous song famous line i'll

let the audience figure that one out but uh i know you don't know it i'll share during the break it's too much to try to explain to you uh it's an age thing she just doesn't she doesn't get it but anyway that's that's the example there and and and i i really am having fun with this but people don't realize what you can get for under five thousand dollars yes and let's be honest he's driving a turd it's a toyota it's done its job yeah but it's gonna die soon and so for four grand you get the chevy impala is it good looking i'm not gonna lie to you it's not different colors it's just a silver car. You would never know. Yeah, I'm saying the Impala, the 2014 Impala is not a car that you buy for status. Sure. But that's okay.

And that's why you do it. That's why we do it. We get it from A to B. A to B. That's all we're looking for. Yes, for this time period. So, yeah. So, I would put as much as you can, Jake, that you guys feel comfortable with.

Again, with the car replacement and an emergency fund, everything else needs to go to this. And then you guys are in a perfect position too, Jake, to go and earn some extra money on a side hustle before kids. Absolutely agree with you. It is the time to do it. It really is because, you know, and we talk to families all the time that get out of debt with kids, right?

I mean, that is a lot of our audience. But it's hard. Like when you have a full day of work, you pick, and we talk to families all the time that get out of debt with kids, right? I mean, that is a lot of our audience. But it's hard. Like, when you have a full day of work, you pick up your kids, and then you have to go to another job. And, you know, and a spouse has to stay home and do bed. I mean, like, it just gets really complicated, and it gets more and more tiring and more difficult. And so you guys are in a perfect season for six, eight months. Like, go work extra, right? Bring some of that in.

What do you got for us, eight months, like go work extra, right? Bring some of that in. What do you got? What do you got for us, Ken? James, I got a snappy looking 2012 Mazda 3 touring, only five grand, 130,000 miles. And it's got a nice little blue color to it. You kind of feel good about yourself zipping into wherever it is you got to go. So again, I make the point. And a quick commercial break. I'm going to teach Rachel about this famous song lyric

that involved Impala, and we'll be back. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get

because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote, call 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back, America. You have joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us today. Taking your money calls, your income, profession-related calls, because that goes together. Let's get right back to the phones. Madison, Wisconsin is where Tyler joins us. Tyler, how can we help today?

Hey, Ken and Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. Yeah, so my wife and I are about $42,000 in debt. And after watching Rachel's message at Fresh Life, it really kind of motivated us to really go hard at the debt. And so, yeah, we're very thankful for that because that shifted our mindset a lot. And so one thing we're going to do, and we were kind of going down this path anyway, but we're selling our house that we're in right now. And initially, our plan was actually to sell our house, buy a new house in a different area. And now we decided we're actually going to sell a house, move into an apartment, because we're going to net around $200,000-ish with the sale of our house. Oh, wow. Okay. And, wow. Okay. And yeah. And so basically we're trying to figure out the best way to handle that because I think

the obvious route is to take that, throw everything at the debt that we have about $42,000. So take $42,000, throw it at the debt. That would leave us with about $160,000 left. And ultimately we do want to buy another house and you know one to three years but i just don't know the best way to handle like how we handle that money as far as do we put the rest you know aside for down payment and can i ask why why are you guys selling to move to a different area yeah we we moved we got kind of lucky as far as like timing for this house

and we bought it in 2020. And yeah, we just we moved here for my wife's job. And honestly, we hate the area. My wife's job, she's not working at that job anymore. So it's the location isn't relevant for us. I work from home. So really location doesn't matter. And so we're just kind of hoping to move to an area that we like a little bit better. Okay. How far, I'm just curious from where you guys currently are to where you want to be. Is it like a 30 minute difference or is it like a 10 minute? It's about two hours. Oh, like a totally different area. Okay. I'm sorry. I got you. Yeah. Okay. That's great. So, um. So yeah, Tyler, I would for sure,

yep, when you guys get that $200,000, I would, yes, apply it to the 42. Go ahead and pay off your debt that day. I would set some money aside. At this point for you guys, do you all have any kids? Yeah, yep, we do have a nine-month-old baby. Okay, okay.

And do you guys both have pretty stable jobs? My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and I am self-employed, so my income is pretty variable. Okay, so because of that, because of the kid element, and it's on one income, and it's a variable income, I would probably just put aside six months of an emergency fund. We always say three to six months, but three would be, you know, if it's, if you're single or if you don't have any kids and you both have pretty stable incomes, you could do more of the three, but because it's a little bit just to give you guys some extra safety. So I would figure out your monthly expenses, multiply it by six and

out of that one 50, put that aside, and I would just open up a high-yield savings account, this is what my husband and I did, and label it emergency fund, and you don't touch it, and then I would leave the rest, which would be what? How much do you think a six-month emergency fund would be for you guys? Yeah, so we actually, good news is we actually already have that taken care of, but it's about $30,000. So yeah, we actually have that already apart from the $200,000. Oh, wow. Okay, that's fantastic.

Okay, so yeah, so the $160,000 that's left, then I would just keep it in a high-yield savings, honestly, Tyler. I would not invest it because you guys are going to use it for a down payment in the next two to three years at the latest, probably. So yeah, if it's not more than five years at the latest, probably. So yeah, I would, if it's not more than five years, if it was more than five years, I would invest.

But you guys are in a position and you may even pull the trigger faster, you know, if you see a great house, because the sooner you get in the market, honestly, the better it's going to be. And you guys will have a great down payment. So I would just put it in a high yield savings and just let it be there. That's really helpful. So this might be a dumb question, but I was kind of doing research into that. Like what classifies something as a high yield savings? Like we have our savings account right now. I don't know if it's classified as that or not, but it's... Yeah, it'll be pretty apparent. It'll say high yield. So high yield savings, a money market account and that, it will say it. And you know, just, this is not a plug. It's just what we use. We use Ally Bank. Usually an online bank is going to be better for high yield savings you're going to

probably get a little bit of a better rate of return versus a brick and mortar standard bank so we we have our checking with a kind of a local bank uh that has brick and mortar and then we have an online high yield savings we just have it through ally i know there's a couple of companies that are out there but you can even just google and honest and have it through Ally. I know there's a couple of companies that are out there, but you can even just Google. And I don't know, there's a lot out there. Just make sure that there's no, because some banks, if they're online,

will charge you like weird fees. And so kind of look into the fine print and just get a great option. But something like Ally is totally fine. Yeah, appreciate the call and good job. Good job, young man. I mean, taking great care of your family. Love that you got all that cash and now you're going to be debt free pretty soon. So don't talk yourself out of that. Don't let anybody talk yourself out of that.

Rachel set you up really well. So really, really happy for you as you kind of start a new chapter. Really fun. Let's go to Columbia, South Carolina, and Kevin is joining us there. Kevin, how can we help today? Yeah. Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. My question is how do I pull a large sum of money out of my retirement investments to build a home? I'll give you a little backstory. My wife and I are both over 59 and a half. She's retired, draws a pension of about $42,000 a year. I make about $142,000 of my salary. And we have got about $1.85 million in investments,

some pre-tax, Roth, and then some non-retirement investment accounts. And in that $1 1.85 there's roughly 200,000 in cash i'm hoping to do is to try to pull some money out of my retirement investments to fund the house but not cripple myself in retirement how much money are you thinking about pulling out uh i need about 750 for the purchase for for the construction of the home and so part of that would be funded by the $200,000 in cash, still leaving us with a fully funded emergency fund. And then the balance we would pull out of them, most of it as we could out of the Roth,

and then the balance would have to come out of the pre-tax accounts. What is your current situation as far as a home? Do you own your current home? We own our current home. We have no debt. We want to tear the house down on the property that we're on because it's the values in the land, not in the dwelling, and we want to build our dream home. Oh, on your current home. That's correct. Yeah, so we're going to just tear

down what we currently reside in, move out, and then build a home here. What's the total cost of that going to be? You said $750,000 plus plus, or is it $750,000? Yeah, it'll be $750,000 is what the contract price will be. It's going to figure probably 10% for contingency money. So, you know, somewhere $825,000 to $850,000 we're thinking. Okay. And have you guys run out numbers? Because that's going to leave you, you know, $1.2 million left in retirement. And have you guys run out numbers? Because that's going to leave you, you know, 1. rate of return, you know, banking at 10%, hopefully for our routine, we feel like we'd be very comfortable. We hadn't anticipated pulling any kind of money towards, pulling Social Security money until we get full retirement age or even 70 if it permits. So we feel pretty comfortable. We don't have any other debt. It makes me nervous tapping into retirement funds.

Yeah, for sure. And you know what, Kevin? I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro because I would want to make sure that what you're pulling out, principle-wise, which avenue is better through the Roths or a 401k, if that's a better play, or just any standard mutual funds you guys have. Because some of these gains on the pre-tax investments, you're going to pay capital gains on some of that too. And so there is a little bit of a strategic play that in the next 30 seconds,

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to answer that. So yeah, I mean, I think from a number standpoint, you're not being irresponsible at all. But that next step is yeah how how and which investments to take out of and I would talk to your financial planner to make sure you're doing that from a tax perspective the wisest way. Yeah great but because you still got earning potential still got a really nice nest egg that will continue to grow and this is a part of your retirement strategy.

So for using the funds that way for a paid off house, I don't think there's anything scary here, but make sure you do your homework. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete.me. They help with that.

Yeah, they do. Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours

they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz is alongside. Thrilled to have you with us.

Glad you're with us wherever you are, however you are watching. Let's get right back to the phones. 888-825-5225 is the number. Brandi is joining us now in Pendleton, Oregon. Brandi, how can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? I am seeing a mom with several disabilities,

and I'm trying to figure out how to make extra income to cover my four walls. I love what I do for work. What do you do? Divorce. I work in development for a ministry. Okay, and what kind of income do you make there? My take-home with child support and my income combined is about $2,800 net a month. $2,800 net. Okay.

And, Brandi, real quick, can you try to adjust your phone a little bit? I feel like it's a little muffled. Let's see if we can hear you a little bit better if you take a look at that. Give us a little. Yeah, can you hear me better? That's so much better. Thank you. Okay, and so we know what your take home is,

how much additional income would be ideal? And I'm not talking some crazy dream number, but just this would give me some real breathing room to take care of the four walls. And let us know what that looks like. $2,500 a month. It was comfortably. In addition to what you're making? Yes. Okay. So we want to go from $2,800 to $5,300. Okay. That's great. I love that you have that target. Are you currently, is that an issue because of debt? Debt and disabilities and just the parenting plan schedule that I have. So, um, I'm divorced, disabled. I've got two kids that are three and five years old. So one is in school and one is in preschool slash daycare. Um, I've sold all my assets in the divorce. Um, I got the house in the

divorce and my ex-husband got everything else. Um, but I have to pay him $20,000 additionally for his portion of equity. Okay. All right. So let me ask you this before we dive into the numbers and Rachel's going to help me here as we get you out of this debt and all this. Um, and I don't want to, don't share anything you don't feel comfortable with, but what can you do? In other words, uh, physically with your disabilities, what, just tell me what you you do, in other words, physically with your disabilities? Just tell me what you can do physically instead of going through what you can't do. What are you able to do? I've been trying to do some side hustles.

I do door dashing and photography and marketing services on the side, but I'm just not seeing enough income consistently to rely on that. Have you looked at freelance work because it's everywhere in programming? Because that's your greatest skill is the programming. If you were doing what you were doing for a for-profit business, not a ministry, my guess is you might be making 20% to 30% more. Is that outrageous what I'm saying? Yeah. I agree.

Listen, I would be putting all my attention right now into freelance opportunities with your programming skills, because that's going to pay you top-notch for your time. Of all the things that you could do, and when we look at exchanging time for money, that's going to be your highest rate. You agree with that, correct? Correct. That's what I would be doing. Because when I look at that number of increasing your income by an additional $2,500 a month, that's what I would be doing. Now, I want to bring Rachel in. How much debt do you have? Yeah. How much debt do you have, Brandy? $64,000.

$64,000. What is that? Will you break that out for me? That is $12,500 to my ex-husband, which he's willing to wait until I sell the house. It's not an area where we live anyways, and I need to come up with some money to pay off all this debt. Okay, pause. Pause real quick. The other big portion of the debt is the construction loan. Brandy, hold on one second. I want to make sure Rachel gets this so that I get this.

The home that you're going to sell, it's not the home you're living in, and it's in a different area. Is that correct? Yeah, I have a renter in there right now. That's part of my income. What do you stand to make? If you sold that today? What do you think you can make on that walking away? I paid it off except for a construction loan. So approximately $110,000. Amazing. Is it on the market right now? I'm in the works of listing it right now. I'm just

waiting for the realtor to put it on the market, but I updated the listing for her. And you owe your ex $12,500 out of the proceeds of that $110,000? Yes. Okay. I owed him $20,000, but I've paid it down to $12,500. I got you. I'm supposed to give him $5,000 every six months per court order, but he agreed to give me more time and just pay him a lump sum once the house sells. And where are you living right now Brandy?

Are you renting? I'm renting, I'm living in an area Where my ex-husband Lives and works So we can co-parent and it's also close To both our jobs Okay that's great So you'll have $98,000 after the sell of this house

And average, you know, median days on the market Right now is around 70 days or so So hopefully in the next 3-4 months Your house will sell So this is short term In a sense, but that $98,000 From there I would direct you

Because all your debt will be paid off at that point Yeah, I'd like to get to baby step 4 I think I'd be able to do that with the sale of this home. I think it's just the short term that I'm trying to figure out. Yes, so that's how I was going to, okay, that's great because Ken is right for the short term for the next, I mean, make it a goal for the next six months to bring in an extra two grand a month and you can because of the programming skills. You know, at the beginning of this call, Brandi, just where my mind was going, I almost was going to encourage you, even though you love youri, just where my mind was going, I almost was going

to encourage you, even though you love your job, a lot of us love things, but we just don't make enough money to cover it. I was going to encourage you to maybe work somewhere else for two to three, four years, just to get some really good financial gain under you. And then you can always go back to the nonprofit down the road. But there is something to be said that, you know, because what you're giving up when you're doing those side hustles is more hours of your time where you could be making that same amount in a shorter amount of time, right? And so, I mean, I don't know. I know you love your job, and I'm sure it's an incredible nonprofit.

And they do incredible work. And people that work in nonprofits, you know, there's such great work there. But when you are a single mom with a list of disabilities, there's only so much you can do. I mean, you need to financially get in a spot where you're taken care of and you have money saved in the bank. You're working for a down payment on a home. I mean, there's some stuff there that's real. I mean, it's something to consider. I don't want to push you into it, but I would consider it. I would definitely consider that. My only issue with switching jobs currently is, other than what I love what I do, my ex-husband works for a prison, and his schedule changes every six months, and I've had to be kind of the one kind of on the back burner to make my job flexible for his job. They're not very flexible.

Well, that's why, again, the schedule changes every six months, and the parenting plan pretty much changes every six months. Yeah, I'm so sorry. But I tell you what, this is great news. Brandy, I'm sorry that you're a single mama. I'm sorry you're going through all this. I'm sorry that you're dealing with these disabilities. But I wanted to encourage you.

I'm so impressed. You're tough as nails. Thank you. And I am so impressed. And I'm also happy for you. You're going to get out of this debt here pretty soon. I really believe that I want you to, if you try and keep trying and keep trying to sell your programming skills, I think we can get to that money goal of increased income a lot faster than you. Here's my point. You can do

that at home and you know what I mean? And be around the babies and not out in a car driving around when you're already struggling with some physical stuff, bless your heart. I just really would like you to try that. There's so much skillset and experience that you have to offer to the world. I would go that route and I mean aggressive. And so, I mean, I would talk to anybody and everybody on social media, in your network, at the church, wherever you're frequenting with the kids. Hey, I'm a programmer. I'm a single mama, and I'm looking to do some contract work. That is okay. There's no shame in that statement. And I think people will say, hey, I need some programming work. They may not be able to afford you as a full-time employee,

but pay you an hourly rate. Or know somebody who knows somebody that needs it. So I would really encourage you to do that, Brandi. And we're rooting for you. Follow the baby steps. So excited to hear you say, pretty soon I'm in baby step four. And what a legacy that is. Rachel, it breaks my heart for the single mamas. I mean, they are the toughest. Toughest people on the planet. Oh my gosh. I don't know how they do it. You guys are amazing. Well done, Brandi. We're cheering for you, Brandi. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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All right, America, we're back after a quick break. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me, and we're excited to have you with us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. And the real estate market, Rachel, I know your hubs is in real estate. You know, Dave's in real estate. And you start thinking about where we're going in 2025. New year, what's going to happen? What's the Fed going to do? How does that affect this? All the things. And it can be really crazy. If you look at the 15-year fixed mortgage rate, for example, it's fluctuated between 5%

and 7% for the past few years. And most experts are predicting this is going to continue for most of 2025. I'm seeing that as well. People kind of think, well, we're going to kind of be in a holding pattern. And so while today's rates might feel high compared to what some of us have seen in our lifetime, I've seen much higher, and obviously we've seen much lower. But historically, 7.5% is a historical average. So we don't want you to be sitting there trying to time the market. If you're financially ready and you can afford the monthly payments, now is a great time to buy your home. And so to learn more about the trends and get real help as we walk you through what to do as you're thinking about buying or selling, go to ramseysolutions.com slash market that's ramseysolutions.com yeah i think that you

know the two biggest myths that i feel like over the past couple years we keep seeing that people are still believing is well rates will just rates will go back down they'll go back down they'll go back down i don't know if we'll ever see two percent again i mean might be a long time i mean i don't i mean it's just not i mean it'll be a pretty dusty skeleton i think i mean yeah so so again it's not like it's going to go from six to two in six months like it's just not so if you're ready you can always refinance if it does drop that drastically but it's it's probably not and the other thing is house prices are not going to take a nosedive you know that was a big thing for a while. People thought like 2021, 2022, like, oh, it's a bubble.

Everything's going to pop. Certain markets will. Have you seen Austin, Texas? Well, Austin is an anomaly. That is true. Yes. But I can hear people right now. I want to make sure we address their concern.

But they are correcting. It's a correction. There's a correction, but it's not going to drop. That's right. It's not going to go down. You know, a million dollar house isn't going to go to, you know, half a million. Yeah. Idea. Like they're pretty much stabilizing for the most part.

It's softening to a degree. But again, it's not these. It's not crazy. It's not this bubble that's going to pop and get all these foreclosures like we saw in 2007, 2008. So I'm going to predict a Trump bump. Trump bump. In the first couple of years. We might see us kind of an interesting, chilled out, little easy roller coaster this year.

A little up, a little down. But I think it's going to be very interesting to see in year two and three of his administration. Yeah. What will consumer confidence look like? I don't have a crystal ball, but I just have a feeling. Yes. Well, so much of this is perceived confidence, right? When people feel

just good in general and they feel good about where the economy specifically what happens with regulation what happens with tariffs yeah you know what happens when you start to see more supply come on the market will builders you know will there be more lower income and i don't mean that i'm sorry not lower income housing but will we see housing starts come in at a much more affordable rate? Yes. All of these things are affected by sometimes macro policies that do, in fact, come out of the White House. So it's going to be interesting to see. Yeah, that's good. Great point.

So hang on. But the point is, if you're ready, jump in now, and we're here to walk you through it. Kevin is up in Riverside, California. Kevin, how can we help? Hello? Hey, Kevin, you're live on The Ramsey Show with Ken and Rachel. What's going on? Thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's up? So I'm in $650,000 in debt, and that includes mortgage, personal loans, auto loans. Can you break that down for us real quick? How much is the mortgage debt? The mortgage, I owe about $477,000. Okay. And now break down the rest of the debt for us.

Cars is about $62,000. For two cars? for two cars. Okay. Keep going. Um, credit, credit cards. Uh, just me. I haven't done, uh, my wife hasn't taken hers or brokers down yet, but my cards are about, oh, geez, I would say $25,000. Okay. Personal loans? Personal loans, small business, I would say $25,000. Okay. And then the rest in small loans like a firm and stuff like that. Yeah, which would equal what?

I haven't broken that down yet, but it's pretty much the rest of my debt. And so how much debt? So that makes up the whole $6.55 if I'm doing quick math. Am I right? Yeah, I guess so. How much debt, so that makes up the whole $655,000 if I'm doing quick math. Am I right? Yeah, I guess so. How much does your wife have? I'm sorry, I'm trying to move this along, Kevin. How much debt does your wife have?

I'm guessing about $25,000 somewhere. And the way you're talking about this. Mostly credit cards? Credit cards and personal. Okay. And you guys have're talking about this. Mostly credit cards? Credit cards and personal. Okay. And you guys have separate finances, it sounds like. We don't. We actually make these decisions together, which is.

Okay. You threw me off when you said her debt. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you guys have like, yeah, it's different. Okay. Either way. Separate accounts. So we got $6.55 plus her $25.

I'm trying to give Rachel the full picture. Okay, how much do you guys make a year, Kevin? We make $130. Kevin, what the crap have y'all been doing? I know. Oh, man. I'm sick of it. Just living.

Just living. Wow. And normal. And let me say that, Kevin. I mean, this literally is America. I'm like,. And normal. And let me say that, Kevin. I mean, this literally is America. I'm like, this is normal. You're racking up credit card debts, two brand new cars. I mean, this is

it. Okay, so what's gotten you to the point you said, I'm sick of it? What's brought it to a head that even caused you to call today? We had a little girl seven months ago. Oh, wow. That'll do it. That'll do it. And how is your wife feeling right now? She's stressed to the moon and back.

Yep. Yep. Where are you at emotionally? Where are you at? I have a hard time connecting emotions to it, and that's probably why I'm in this mess. Okay, so what's the real need? We know what the problem is. What can we help you with today? Well, me and my wife work for my family business, and we work 40 hours a week. Well, I do. She stays at home with our little girl most of the time. But I want to work more,

but I feel like I'm a little selfish for wanting to work a lot more than 40 hours and not being home. All right, I'm jumping in because we've got about two minutes with you or less. You're not being selfish. In fact, I would say you're being selfish if you're not working 80 hours a week.

And is your wife collecting a salary? You said we both work for the family business. Is she getting paid to be at home? We collect salaries. She works from home on her computer. So great. So you need to be working like crazy. How much is your mortgage payment a month?

$3,700 okay is it that's I mean that's getting up to what 40 percent of your take-home pay yeah yeah okay so here's what I do Kevin so this is gonna be real quick this is gonna be very painful to implement it's much easier for me to sell you all this I would I would put the house in the market i would sell it this is way way out of bounds um you have too much house it's taking 40 and then think about all these other payments you guys are barely able to eat i'm like this is take this is taking up so much so if i were you guys i i would sell the house i would sell the cars i would be working 80 hours a week and i would clean this up that's what i would do

i mean i i would would you get any equity from the home if you guys sold uh there's about 30,000 in the house which i feel like is all fees for uh putting it on the market anyways well but again if you can get out even if it's a break even she's right you saved yourself 3,700 a month which you because your income the ratio of what you guys need to pay for rent and mortgage needs to be about half of where you're at because you're house poor. I'm like, you guys, you know, so I would cut up the credit cards tonight. You have to have, keep this feeling of I'm done. I'm done.

I'm done. I'm done. And you have to get dead out of your life. You have to stop. And I would be selling everything in sight, including those cars, and get your head above water. You guys have a three- to four-year journey here, but you can do this. Hold on the line.

Taylor's going to pick up, and we're going to give you guys Financial Peace University, which is our nine-lesson course. And you guys watch this together and just implement these steps. It's going to be hard, but worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show, where America comes to win with their money, to win in their profession, and to win with their relationships. 888-825-5225.

Alongside the incomparable Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, excited to be with you. And we're going to get right to the phones to help you out. Lisa is starting us off in Phoenix, Arizona. Lisa, how can we help today? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. My husband and I are looking to retire at 62, so that's in about three and a half to four years from now.

All right. We both have a 401k and pension. I also have a SEP and Roth IRA. My husband has a Roth IRA and a military retirement that he's currently collecting on. We're paying off the house that we reside in and have no other debt. We also have a rental property that's paid off and we're wanting to move out of state once we retire. Our financial advisor is recommending that we sell the rental now and put the income into a tax deferred annuity that'll pay out about $25,000 annually for life. What are your thoughts about that? We're not big fans of annuities. I thought I'd make a sound effect. I mean, they're great in a sense that especially variable is what we would say, not a fixed. Because the only reason you would do that is if all other options are exhausted from a retirement perspective.

It just plays really safe and you can usually get a better rate of return and better options just in the market. Yeah. So how much do you get? You listed off a lot. You guys have Roth IRAs and pensions and all of it. How much in total do you guys have saved for retirement? About $400,000. Okay.

And for your pension, who has the pension? Your husband or you? We both do. You both do. That's including mine in a lump sum because the company that I work for, I don't trust to have the pension down the road. Okay. So you got it.

Okay. How much will he keep his in and then just You know get payments once a month Well we're not sure About that okay if he does Get in and get payments we're looking At approximately 430 A month okay 430

430 dollars a month Okay so it's not like a ton Um all right so What I would do Lisa yes I would sell I would not like a ton um all right so what i would do lisa yes i would sell i would not be a long distance landlord or do you guys enjoy real estate do you enjoy having a rental not really okay and they're moving out of state how much would you make on the house sorry rachel i got very excited i got the calculator i hear ken type it on his laptop i know how much how much would you make from this rental property?

What would you walk away with, roughly? Roughly $330,000. $330,000. I figured, yes. All right. Sorry, and let me make sure I got this, because I'm going to go over here and mind my business until you're ready for me. No, it's great.

No. And you've got $400,000 right now collectively in retirement in a chunk, in a lump sum all together, correct? Correct. All right. And you're 59? My husband's 59. I'm 58. Okay. All right. All right. I'm just running some numbers for you because here's the deal. I love the idea of you selling the house. I agree with the advisor on that part, but I'm with Rachel. If it were me, I'd be putting this money, all the lump sum from that house, I'd be putting it in my retirement account.

I mean, in a separate, you know, like get it in the market and let that now take your nest egg from $400,000 to, what did you say, $330,000 you'd make on it? Yes. Okay. All right, Rachel, keep going. I'm going to run some numbers yeah the 330 um so yeah i mean the the biggest thing you want to be thinking about with this money is how to protect it from

taxes where you can and so being able to put it in any you know uh any account that is that is post-tax right so um with it but yeah i mean i guess it's considered an earned income um ken's typing over here i'm curious what's coming i'm curious what's going to come out because you could just put it like in an s&p or an index fund lisa so if i got this right and just be paid out the dividends but you're going to pay taxes on those so i want you to take advantage of any tax um you know deferred accounts what? All right. So I entered you guys at 59. I know you're different ages, but 59, 58, the age you plan to retire, you said 62, correct? Yes. Okay. And I put in 730,000 is the number. And I put in an 8% annual return.

And in three years, if you do what Rachel told you to do, and I agree with Rachel, that number is going to be at $927. So just under a million dollars. I love that. Now you take that $927, you know what I mean? And let's say that you guys aren't pulling a huge chunk out of that, that's going to continue to grow for you in retirement. So I would not do the annuity at all. It doesn't make any sense. I want that lump sum working for you in a big way. So you would put it in S&P index fund? Is that what I heard? Mutual funds.

Mutual funds or index funds is fine. Do you have an actual financial pro? We call them smart investor pros, people that understand our methodology. They're independent, but they're actual financial advisors. Do you have somebody who subscribes to kind of our way of teaching, or is this somebody that has no idea what we teach over here at Ramsey? I don't know, actually. Yeah, well, then there's our answer.

I would go to RamseySolutions.com after this call and look up some people in your area. Click on the SmartVestor Pro. These are great financial advisors. They know what they're doing. And pick two or three, go interview them, sit down with them, walk through your scenario and get their advice, make sure you understand it. You can tell them what we said.

We're not in any way pros. And again, Lisa, and hear me say this too, annuities, I mean, they're kind of like a financial product. And so I just don't want you- I guarantee he's making money on this. Yeah, I don't want you to be taken advantage of in that way. And it may not be a will on his end, but I mean, there's just this, yeah, I mean, it's

a financial product, an annuity, and I just think you can do better in the market. But I would sit down with a smart investor pro to look exactly, because you also want to take advantage, you know, are you guys maxing out your roth iras at 7 000 a year each um no okay but i wanted to ask you about that we are currently paying the home off we're living in should we put more money towards our lot and less towards the home how much you have left i would put put 15,000, I mean, 15%. I would be funding 15% of your income into retirement. And then anything on top of that put towards the house. Yeah.

To Ken's question, what, how much do you guys have left on the house? 193. Okay. Man, that's awesome. Yeah. I would just, honestly, I would just keep it at that 15%. I'd like to see it all work to 65. And yeah.

I really would. If you were my brother and sister, mom and dad, whatever, I would go, hey, let's extend our income for maybe three more years. Just consider it. Or take the sale of the rental and throw it at your primary mortgage. I like that even more. And then put the chunk into it. But just, I mean, you can see how quickly, Lisa, in three years when I ran that calculator, you can do this at RamseySolutions.com and play with the numbers yourself.

Get on there, you and your husband, and have some fun with that calculator. But yeah, I'm with you, Rachel. I would actually pay off the primary mortgage. How much is your mortgage a month, Lisa? It's only $1,675. And we have been paying $3,130 to have it paid off by 2030. But we decided we wanted to retire early and I want it paid off or we want it paid off before we retire. So we bumped it up to $1,000.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, so I mean, between your income and everything, I would make that the first goal is to pay off that house. And if the proceeds from the rental help do that and fast forward this faster, that's a great place to put your monies in your primary home. Thanks for the call, Lisa. We'll be right back.

This is The Ramsey Show. All right, The Ramsey Show continues. Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman with you, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Ana in Houston, Texas. Ana, how can we help? Hi, thank you all so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I'm a huge fan. Well, we're a fan of yours as well. What's going on? Thank you. So I'm 30 and I'm married. My husband's also 30. And last year we paid off all of our, so we don't owe anything. Hey, hey, hey, way to go. Thank you. So we just have our regular, you know, monthly expenses, except for one little problem that I got myself into over the past years.

I got into some mess with the IRS. And I, yeah, unfortunately, I've learned my lesson that will not ever happen again, but in the meantime I, uh, offered them, I did an offer and compromise with them and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I got a letter saying that I would receive an answer or some sort of, uh, correspondence by the 9th of December, but I haven't gotten anything. I haven't gotten any contact when I tried to contact them. Wait, you're saying the government is being slow about something.

I'll tell you right now. I can't believe it. I'm floored. I am never worried. I've got to pick Ken off the floor. He's shocked. I'm shocked. And I'm never worried.

Yeah. Listen, Ana, I'm never worried that the IRS is tardy in getting back to me. I'm going to keep moving on throughout my life. We're going to give you some advice on what this is, but don't be worried about that. What happened, though? Was it just like back taxes or like what happened? It was a mixture of back taxes and an audit and I just I was young and kind of living free

and I didn't realize that they were going to charge me interest and fees on top of what I owed. How much did you owe? How much did you end up owing and how much did you compromise it or like have that? With the total of everything it

was about $45,000 and my offer was $31,000. Okay. And that's the last communication. They said, we'll get back to you by December 9th on that offer. Yes. So they didn't agree on the offer yet? No.

No, no. Do you have any of it saved up? You got the $45,000 saved? Yes. All of it? Currently, all of no, no. Do you have any of it saved up? You got the 45 saved? Yes. All of it? Currently, all of it. Yes. So currently we have about 15,000 saved. But my question is, is that in the meantime, while I wait for them, our lease on our apartment is up in April. And at that time, we should have about $15,000 saved extra apart from worst-case scenario, which is, I think it's about $42,000-something that's worst-case scenario that I'll owe them. So I'm wondering if we should, when this lease ends in April, if we should use the small amount of money that we have outside of what we owe the IRS,

keeping that aside to go ahead and try to purchase a home, or if we should sign another lease and wait for the IRS to come through, get that taken care of, re-save a larger down payment, and focus on that next year. Lease. I'd sign the lease. I would not try to do what you're thinking. That first option makes me nervous, Rachel. You too? Yeah, even though she has the 42 set aside. Yeah, I just, well, yeah, because she's only going to have 15 in addition to try to get in a house yeah yeah that's true we don't that's not gonna 20 so right because you have 50 saved now so fit so yeah that's right that's right 20 yeah yeah i just 20 is not going to get you very far yeah

i would just chill i would relax i'm just playing it safe here. Listen, and if you get great news, if the IRS, for some shocking reason, they already chose to audit you, and if they take your offer and they say, all right, we'll take your offer, and then you've got a little bit more change and you're that much closer, but don't be in a hurry. Yeah, and I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, Ken, but I think the reason I would wait is less about the IRS because you have that money set aside. So if they come for the 42, you have it, you pay it, you're done.

That's right. It's more that you just don't have a large down payment. That's the whole reason I'm saying lease. They're just not enough to put a significant down payment. So for another year, be saving for a bigger down payment. Is this, like, have you guys run numbers on a home that you're thinking, yeah, we could afford this with the monthly payment and everything? I'm curious how much that would be well with with i have but with the money that we have it would be kind of disappointing the house that we could get yeah stop right there who wants to

buy a disappointing house yeah listen to yourself you're a smart lady just know that you know we recommend for first-time homebuyers, as you're getting into the market, you're going to have 5% to put down. But again, the numbers have to run well that with your monthly income, that the mortgage payment on a 15-year fix is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. So in those parameters, I would say go, because we just talked to someone last hour, and know, or last hour and they're house poor. They're like 45% of their take-home pay is going to their home.

And it's like, no, that's stressful. So look around, yeah. And if it's not what you guys want, wait another year and run some math too on it. Like, okay, if we waited another year and say, cause you guys are gonna save 15,000 in the next, you know, three months. So it's like, okay, that's another 60,000 in just a year. If you still stayed on that directory like, okay, that's another $60,000 in just a year

if you still stayed on that directory. Plus this, that's an $80,000 down payment. That's a great down payment. Yeah, I just can't imagine buying a house and you're telling your girlfriends and they're like, hey, so are you excited? And you go, eh, not really. I'm kind of disappointed.

That's exactly how I feel too. I know. And so what I'm saying is be disappointed in an apartment, you know, because it doesn't matter. Short term too. I know. And so what I'm saying is, is be disappointed in an apartment, you know, because it doesn't matter short term, short term. And so, uh, on a trust your gut here, you're in good shape. What's your husband say? Um, he, he says, really, he says we should buy the house. He says we can get a better one later. And that, you know, Dave always says,

buy the house. So I don't think Dave would say buy a house that you're disappointed in when you can wait a little longer and get what you want and get what you want and still be in a very responsible financial situation. So it's one of the biggest purchases you ever make. And by the way, I don't fault your husband for this cause he's a dude. Yeah. Dudes are just he's a dude. What does that mean?

Dudes are just like, buy a house? Yeah, the average male is not thinking about all the rooms and the flow. There's a dude in the lobby. He gets it. You got me? They don't care. Man with the American flag on your head. He gets it.

They don't care. My sister, they just redid some of their house. I was like, what do you think, Bill? He's like, I don't know. I'm fine. I was fine with that. Her husband is going, what kind of grass situation do I got there, you know? Bermuda?

Yeah, he's kind of going, how much landscaping do I got to do, you know? Where's the spot for the TV? Oh, my gosh. Hey, will my lazy boy fit over here in the corner? Okay. Well, you act like you didn't understand. I'm bringing you into this this is why you have a male and a female thank you anna tell rachel i know what's happening i get it so tell sparky that he needs to wait and and and help you get a house that you enjoy and he's going

to be happier and just and on it's just a year right i mean if we were saying five years i would be like get in you know i'm not telling you were saying five years, I would be like, get in. You know, I'm not telling you to wait five years. One more year. I'm with you. What you can say about me. You know what I mean? Totally with you.

Yeah. Yeah. You can do it. I get it. Oh, well, you all just brought me so much peace and literally answered everything I've been stressing over. So I just appreciate your time more than I can express. Well, you're very sweet. And that's why we came in today express well you're very sweet and that's why we

came in today it's that right there that's why we do the show you walk through these things you get a little sounding board and that's what's funny is sometimes you you know and not saying this was her but we can often just have things in our head and we rattle them around so long you're kind of figuring out and then when you just talk to just talk to another person that's outside the situation, has no attachment, the logic is there. Because it's a great illustration because she says to us, it'd be disappointing.

And we're both like, don't buy a house. And she's like, oh, that's a good point. But to your point, that's that dialogue. And again, I'm having fun with all men,

but the way we think about things sometimes is far too simplistic and gets us in relationship trouble. Because of the simplicity of it. Yeah. And you didn't like all my jokes, but they were spot on. No, we thought that I liked them. It just made me laugh. Get that Bermuda grass.

Well, take your time. Take your time. And get the house that you'll want, and you're going to feel so much better about it. Such a big purchase. So there you go. All right. I'm going to try a few more jokes out on Rachel during the commercial break, see if she likes them, and if they're suitable for the rest of the show.

And then we'll be right back. And there's George Camel. It's George? George is my cameo in the control room. Our favorite camel. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us.

I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. Hey, one of the best things to do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They're going to help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes. So we're getting to that time of year. It's going to be here before you know it. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro, RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. And you can find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. Michael is up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Michael, how can we help? Rachel and Tim, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? We lost my mom about three years ago. And from that, I have an inherited traditional IRA. And I'm trying to figure out if we should cash that out. Right now I'm rolling it over to at $8,000 a month. I'm rolling that over to a Roth IRA but with the interest rate it's I can't move it fast enough in the 10 years that I have.

So we're wondering if we should cash that out and apply that towards our mortgage. How much is in a total? In the inherited, it's about $100,000. $100,000. And you're saying rolling it over to the Roth? Right. We've been doing it $8,000 a month or $8,000 a year. A year. Yeah. And at that point you're saying, okay, I see what you're saying, yeah. And how much is left on the house?

$228,000. $228,000, okay. You know, I probably... It looks like we'll be able to knock off about three more years where we have a 15-year mortgage. We've been paying it down. How much do you guys make a year? About $140 Okay

And do you have any other debt? No Okay You know honestly Michael I would probably just continue To do what you're doing I would probably just leave it I don't know if I would cash out

Even though it's in a traditional IRA And you'll pay taxes On what's ever left Eventually In it I just think sitting in there and letting that growth happen is probably what I would do and keep transferring it, you know, year after year into a Roth. Do you guys have your own individual Roths? Both of you, you and your wife have one open. So, okay. So you're doing 16, you 14 16 000 a year yeah we're each doing 15 percent

of our income counting this 100 000 right now we have about 325 000 in retirement okay i gotcha um 51 she's okay yeah how old are you guys did you say 51 and 48 okay um yeah i mean i i probably would just leave it in i don't think i would touch it um yeah i i probably i would not either i was thinking the exact same thing i think i would take that as an awesome kind of gift and and and just let it sit and grow i just don't think you need to cash it out and i think it's got so much potential to steamroll for you. And I would just let it sit and build. Yeah, I know. We really say don't cash out retirement.

I mean, I would put even inherited right into it from an IRA. Agree. Unless you're facing like a foreclosure or a bankruptcy. But unplugging that, I just wouldn't. I would just, I would be, and I would not count this. Are you counting this at all towards your 15% as you guys move it over? Or you're just, this is separate from your 15%? That's all gravy.

Okay. Yeah, I would just leave it. How old are you? I'm 51 and my wife is 48. And when would you think that you're going to retire? When would you think I'm going to pull this out, whatever this ends up being. I'm going to play with this investment calculator real quick, just to give you a real number. What age do you think you're going to retire?

So I think I can retire at 60 because I'd be eligible for my federal retirement. And I'll also be drawing my military retirement, which just with that will be about $5,600 a month before tax. And what was the number inherited here, the total? $100,000 that's in that account. Okay, so $100,000. Total out of everything inherited that's either been moved or in that account is about $160,000. So it's $160,000 is in the account? $160,000 total, but that's counting the Roth that's been moved, plus some individual mutual funds.

So are you going to contribute to that monthly? No, I'm just doing it through the TSP Roth. Okay, all right. I just wanted to calculate this. In nine years, when you plan to retire, that's $327,924. At an 8% return. I went conservative there. I didn't do 10%. Sure. So does that help? It really helps. Yeah. We were really thinking the other way. And so it's nice to have it

validated to know that we're probably on the right track just to leave it where it is. Yeah. And when you guys get to retirement age then, Michael, and if you still have some money left on the mortgage, then I would sit down and kind of calculate, here's all of our retirement, not just with the inheritance, everything, because you guys are contributing and your pension and all of that. And there may be enough in there just to go ahead and pull, you know, when you're 59 and a half, 60, you know, some out of retirement to finish the house, right? If you guys get to that point and say you have, you know, 100K left, and you'll have plenty above that to retire, you know, you could, you know, do that then.

But I, yeah. Yeah, I will have the house paid off before I retire. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I would just, I would stick with that plan, Michael, honestly. Okay, great. Yeah. You liked the way that 327K sounded, didn't you? Let's round it up. I sure do, yeah. 328K. So so and that was at eight percent i think you're gonna outperform that and again michael if you had if this wasn't in a retirement some type of ira um and this was just cash given to you i would then probably throw it at the mortgage but letting it unplugging it um especially before retirement age i just wouldn't i would let it i would let it sit there and grow yeah Yeah. You're in good shape,

Michael. Yeah. Thanks for calling. I'm glad that helped. Let's go to Jackie in Billings, Montana. Jackie, how can we help? Hello. How are you guys? Good. How are you, Jackie? I'm good. I'm 36 years old, and I thought I'd kind of have life a little bit more figured out by now. Yeah, me too. I'm 50. I just, I kind of was climbing a ladder in a company and kind of working my way up and it's pretty successful and then just got burnt out. And so about, I don't know, probably like three years ago, I started just starting and stopping and doing all sorts of different things,

call them hobbies or businesses or adventures. And I thought like I'd kind of grow out of it or find something that I got passionate about. And I don't, I, I'm three years into that. And I still, I, I could not tell you what I want to do with my life career wise or whether I even want to have a career or I started, like I tried to read this book mastery that was like how to find, you know, what you, what you're going to have a career. Or I started, like, I tried to read this book, Mastery, that was like how to find, you know, what you're going to be passionate about. And I feel like I get really passionate about things,

and then I lose interest. And I'm just not sure. Like, I've had quite a few job opportunities in my work right now. You know what I think the bigger issue is? I think you're dealing with some personal confusion, which is not allowing you to have clarity in your professional life. Based on what I just heard, the way you threw that out there. Now you tell me if that feels right or not, because I only have a few minutes and this is a deep question.

Roll over to the next segment. I'm going to. Thank you for that. Because here's what I heard. This is good, Jackie. This could be some good content. I heard you say, I'm not sure if I even want the career. I may want something more on a personal level. So tell me about that first, because I think that's the driver of this. What is lacking at 36? What's not in the picture that you longed for? The great expectations that weren't met.

Tell me. I guess I thought I'd be married and have a family, but I have everything else that I could possibly want but that. Okay. Hey, is that funny? No. Okay. And I'm not picking on you, Jackie. I'm loving on you. Thank you. That's not funny. There's nothing funny about that.

I know what you're doing. I kind of decided if I wasn't going to get that, that I'd get everything else. And so it's like I set myself up. Well, financially, I took. Stay with me for a second. We're going to hold you over. I don't want you to miss what I just said.

When I asked you if that was funny, you got what I was saying. This is profoundly sad. This is sad for you. And so what I want you to grasp here is the sadness that you're experiencing is normal and it can be healthy. But I would tell you, and we're going to hold you over here, that is creating confusion

about this other part of my life that quite frankly, you've already figured that part out. I think I can figure out what you want to do, but what you really want in life is this relationship thing. So hold on the line. I'm so glad Rachel's with me because I think we can figure out what you want to do, but what you really want in life is this relationship thing. So hold on the line. I'm so glad Rachel's with me because I think we're going to go somewhere fun and I think we can help you. So will you hold on the line? Quick commercial

break. We'll come back and help you. Yeah, Jackie. Okay. Hang on the line, folks. This is really fun stuff we're going to dive into. Coming up next, this is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. Phone number is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 46, verse 10. Be still and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations.

I will be exalted in the earth. Our quote from the famed poet, a true American treasure, Maya Angelou. Do the best that you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better. That's good. Just rewind that. Look at that every morning. All right.

So we took a call going into our last commercial break from Jackie. She's 36. She's in the Billings, Montana area. Has been very successful professionally. Has burned out before. But what we found out going in is life is not where she wants it to be and it's not professional she's crushed it uh she's not where she wants to be in her relationship life so we're gonna we're gonna try to help her out here uh jackie you still with us yeah all right so you've had some time to think we started talking about this and and so here's the deal i

i think you're going to have to get to a place i want to start walking through this where you whether it's through therapy or through your own self-reflection get to a place where you realize that you've got great expectations and and wonderful expectations for what you wanted at this point in your life at 36 is really to be married maybe having kids all of those things and you've had great success on the professional side and at times probably burned out and you've tried a lot of different things because one that's your personality you're probably one of those people that you strike me as someone who you need a new challenge on a regular basis. Is that true? Yeah, 100%. All right, we'll get back to that.

I wanted to know that, but I'm going to push that over here to the side, and we'll get to that on the professional side. But I think this is more of a personal call than a profession call. So are you in a place, and I'm glad Rachel's here because I don't know what the dating world is like, and I guess you probably don't either. You't know what the dating world is like and I guess you probably don't either you've been married a long time I've been married a lot longer than you are you in a place Jackie where you're out of the game and you just kind of you've

had some disappointments and you're not coming back out of the cave what has happened in your mind or what has not happened to have you sitting here today feeling lost relationally and in your personal life? I worry I'm maybe just like too picky. I don't know. I'm not too picky. I have really high standards for myself and I'm not going to be with someone that's not also like having high standards. It's not pushing themselves. It's not trying to grow. It's not going to be with someone that's not also like having high standards it's not pushing themselves it's not trying to grow it's not trying to be the best version of themselves have you had some long-term relationships yeah give us the last two let's go from the one uh the one closest to now the last relationship how long were you in that relationship and what happened um probably it was about two years, and it just didn't go anywhere.

Was he talking marriage or future, or he was just happy to go along? I think he was happy to go along. All right. What about the relationship before that? How long was it, and how did it end? My previous one was my only other one, really. It was 15 years um and he he definitely wanted more um we were we actually engaged for 15 years but i just it felt like something was

always missing and he wasn't driving and he wasn't pushing and i was driving and pushing and he was happy to okay for me to so you were 20 were you 20 when you guys started dating? Yeah, we were 18. And you guys just broke up probably a few years ago, right? Yeah, three years ago. Okay. Jackie, and none of this is from a place of judgment. This is all digging really quick, okay?

Were you the reason that we were engaged for 15 years? You guys were engaged for 15 years or was he the were engaged for 15 years, or was he the reason? Yeah. Yeah, no, it was 100% me. Did you love him unconditionally? No. No, you did not.

The hesitation. That's right. And the hesitation. Yeah. All right, so hold on. We have limited time. What in your mind, be as raw as you can, I don't care how it sounds or how you describe it, tell me what was the thing that you did not like enough or you weren't satisfied enough or you were worried about? What was the thing with this dude that kept you from walking down the aisle?

I felt like I was more of a parent than a partner. Were you more of a parent than a partner because of you or because of him? I think codependency both ways. I agree. Have you been in therapy at all about this or any other relationship? I've been to therapy about all the childhood stuff that people, you know, on on the expectations i dug into all that stuff and then i did about six months into relationship stuff um and then i felt like i was just getting crankier sorry that's not funny but i was like i went to us and i was like i'm just coming here

yeah hey by the way can i just say this i want to validate you on this. Yeah. Deep therapy is difficult. I would not have quit if I were you. And I'm not trying to do therapy on the show, but here's where I'm going. I'm going to come back to the professional side because you called with a question of, can I feel lost? And I've done all these things. I think you know exactly what you're good at. I think you know the kind of work you enjoy doing,

and I think you know the results that motivate you. Is that a true statement? Yeah. Okay. So let me tell you what I've encountered. I've coached over 10,000 people in my time at Ramsey Solutions on this type of topic, and here's what I believe is true. You tell me if I'm right or wrong, and I don't mind being wrong. I believe that you are wired to be a person who you accomplish a lot quickly. You love a new challenge. You're more of a starter. You finish things, but I think you like starting a new problem and it is the challenge in its newness and in its difficulty in challenging you that fire you up. And once you get to a certain point where, dare I say, for lack of a better word, you master it, then it gets boring for you and you need the next dopamine hit off of a difficult challenge.

Is that true or false? True. I've talked to you many times before, just different name and different life. So here's what you've got to understand. You've got to bottle that. So what you have to do is instead of trying all these things and quitting, you have to go, okay, I've got to be in a work situation in an environment where the nature of the job itself feeds that natural thing, but I'm not letting it rule me and I'm doing this

and then I quit and I do this and then I quit because what's going to happen is you become a dopamine junkie on the challenge as opposed to begin to channel that. Do you understand what I'm saying? So don't overthink what it is you want to do. You don't even need any professional advice from me as to what you want to do. I think you just need to understand how you're doing it. And maybe just maybe you look at an entrepreneurial play because the nature of being an entrepreneur is going to feed that, but it also keeps you focused and channeled. That would be my gut if I had more time with you. But I think that's what's going on with you. But I would also say there's one other thing. The wiring part I just got,

and you agreed. But I would also tell you whatever happened to you as a young lady and the stuff that you're dealing with, and we're not going to pull that out here on the show but i would say the codependency that you acknowledge there's also something in you that you feel like you gotta keep showing somebody something or you gotta keep proving something to somebody and it may be you and that's why i'm going to tell you i think if you can get back into therapy be be cranky, learn how to learn and grow through the crankiness, I think the relationship stuff will take care of itself. But when you're engaged with somebody for 15 years and the number one reason is because you don't think he's driven enough and that you're more mature than him, we get some work to do on ourselves. And I'm not

being unkind. Rachel i i wanted to get you in here i know i've done a lot of talking on this one but that's what i'm seeing and not from a judgmental standpoint but you should have given up on this guy way earlier or committed way earlier yeah agreed yeah and so yeah from the relational perspective because you were with him and then your last relationship you said was two years so there hasn't been a ton of single time anyways and so um so yeah i don't know there's something about what ken is saying that i think is right of there's a fulfillment there that you're continuing to chase and you're trying to chase it in the professional world right but it's like

that's not fulfilling and i'll say this too, you know, while marriage is wonderful and kids are wonderful, it's not going to fulfill you the way you think it will either. And so there is this like wholeness to Jackie is what I would go for, right? And maybe it takes professional work to be kind of self-aware and understanding and unpacking that. But I think the biggest lie people believe is if I just got married, I'll be fulfilled that way. Talk about codependency, then you end up in a codependent loop at that point.

I'm going to challenge you, Jackie. Start to love people for who they are and not what they do. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.