The Ramsey Show - App - If You Want To Win You Need To Take Radical Action (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Scott starts this hour in Springfield, Illinois.

Hey, Scott, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. It's an honor to be talking to you and Ken. I appreciate you guys and what you do, and I'll get right to my question so I don't hold you guys up. My question is, me and my wife and my five kids, we have a 40-acre farm and a log cabin that we just recently sold. It's under contract. We signed the papers January 19th. What we're looking to do

is with the cash we get from that, we plan on building a new place over on an acre and a half that we were gifted. And we're trying to figure out where to put the money and why we build. And the build would start, you would start January 19th closing.

So more or less we would try to be in there by September 1st is the goal, to have everything done and built. I'm being a general contractor and just trying to figure out where we can put that money to have best access to it. You're going to use the money to build with? Yes, use the money. We have no debt. We have no debt at all.

We are our farm and cabin and everything we have now thanks to you guys. So if I'm understanding you, you're going to use up the majority of the money by September? Yes, correct, correct. So you're going to draw down on it beginning almost immediately and you know as you put in footings and start to lay block and uh start to order your lumber package which is as you know is your one of your big ticket items so i mean in the first 60 days you're going to come out of pocket with a ton, right? Yes, correct. Correct, yes.

That's how a building budget works. So, yeah, I would just lay out your budget and, you know, a high-yield savings account, a money market, something like that. It doesn't matter because you're not going to have the money in there. Basically, you're going to have the equivalent of half this money in there for nine months, three-quarters of a year. So if something's paying 5%, you're going to make the equivalent of 2% or 2.5%

to down to about 1.5%. So net, net, net, that's the net dollars you're going to earn because you're only going to be in there nine months and only half the money's going to be in there because you're going to be drawing down on it through there. You follow me? Yes. My point is what you earn on it doesn't matter much. Having solid access to it does and having it in a separate account that you nickname building fund does.

So high-yield savings account, money market with check writing privileges, that's fine. So you can write your checks and pay your bills, right? Okay, yes. market with check writing privileges that's fine so you can write your checks and pay your bills right okay yes because i because what i'm seeing around here is i'm seeing like 4.5 yeah on a yield saving but it's again you're not going to make 4.5 because you're not going to be in there a whole year with the whole pile of money okay i understand if you're taking it out let's say you took it out over 12 months the average would be half the pile through the 12 months you follow me yes sir and so the average would be half of four and a half percent net that you're actually making on the pile so um the the point of all that is when you add up the actual dollars it's not going to be a lot you just want it safe and you want to be as wise as you can

so the important thing here is check-writing privileges, access to it to follow the building budget and the cash flow needed. And, you know, so a money market with check-writing privileges at your local bank. If you found one four and a half and they've got check-writing privileges to be able to pay the bills and be able to transfer money to your lumber company and so on, then you're right on track. That's exactly what I'd do. Good question, man.

Sounds like you're living the dream. Congratulations. Yeah, exciting, isn't it, to hear a young couple, because you can tell he's young, and they're going to cash flow a build, and I think that's pretty amazing. That, to me, is the American dream. I hear all this stuff all the time. Oh, can we get ahead? And the answer is you can't, but you got to be disciplined. You got to be debt-free, because he's got lots of options. Jim is in Hawaii. Hey, Jim, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Aloha.

Aloha. What's up, man? Well, my wife and I are in a dilemma, and we're trying to figure out if it makes sense for us to sell our home in Paradise and move to Florida. I've got details, but I don't want to give them to you until you're ready. So fire away with your questions to help us figure this out. That's funny. Hawaii's paradise and we've got to move to Florida. Which Yankees from New York think Florida's paradise.

Okay, now. Who wants to move most? So why are you moving? Primarily for we could sell our house for 2.5 and buy a house there for about 1.5 put a million in the bank we're debt free she's retired I'm not so we'd save on state income tax put some money in the bank and earn more money that way local politics kind of drive us crazy and the cost of living keeps going up in Hawaii yeah well if was me, I'd be going to Florida. Yeah.

If those were my answers, that'd be enough. Yeah, that sounds like you've got a lot of math reasons to leave. And the sad thing is Hawaii, as wonderful as it is, is the third, is in the number three state that people are leaving. Number one's New York, number two's California, and number three's Hawaii. And the reason they're leaving, all three of them are exactly what you've outlined taxes and politics financially i don't want to go back into debt and our the rest of our money is tied up in other areas so the only way we can really do it is to sell and we don't feel emotionally ready to leave and so we can't find an emotional way to unhook ourselves

and you've been there a long time there's no financial solution either you've been there a long time in hawaii we've been there 15 years and you didn't leave the state left you. You didn't change. That's right. I wonder, Jim, how many more times you have to pay those taxes, how many more times you have to see some type of politics that you just really don't align with before your emotions do get ready. I got a buddy of mine just moved out of California, and he paid cash for a house in Nashville. He's been in California his whole life. He paid cash for a house in Nashville with this income tax savings in one year. One year of income tax savings from California just getting out. He makes a lot of money, obviously, but, you know, one year with no California income tax bought him a cash house

in Nashville. That's why people are leaving. I it's math and it does it does pierce through the emotions so I get why you would leave um I also understand it's a beautiful wonderful place and um and it's hard to leave home and it's home for you so uh those are decisions you guys have to make as a couple uh the emotional part of it mathematically i if i'm you i'm gone i get why my buddy moved out of california again he paid cash with one years of tax savings you know bonkers art laffer track this years ago the states that have an income tax and particularly high income tax have uh the highest rate of exodus yeah and it's gotten worse and worse and worse every year. And those three states with the COVID policies, when the Fauci pandemic hit,

and the policies around that, and the crazy politics, and the lawlessness, and everything else, people are bailing, man. It's crazy. And it's sad because they're wonderful states. The actual geography is wonderful.

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I'm doing great good how can we help hey so my husband and I both work for my dad he owns a hardware and feed store and we, you know, he's owned it for 16 years. So I've worked on and off just through middle school and high school. And then now we both run the store full time. We make about $34,000 each a year. And then Ivan, my husband, makes $19,000 with the VA income. And so collectively we make 87,000. So instead of a raise the last few years, he has given us 1% of the store's, I guess, value. If the store would ever sell, we would get X percentage of the sale price. And so right now we have 3%. And we, sorry, back story, we're debt-free. We are in the middle of building our home.

And so our home loan total is $292,000. We were able to buy the land in cash. And so we own, sorry, about an acre and a half. And everything else is paid for. We have our six-month savings saved up. And so kind of, I guess our big question is, we've been listening to the Ramsey show and we hear all these crazy numbers of combined income, and I know you're not supposed to compare, but I do. And so we live comfortably. We have three kids. We're able to pay all of our bills. With the home loan, we're going to be able to pay that off soon. But whenever you look at our income, it's significantly lower than a lot of people.

And so, but we have the percentage in the store. So the big question is, do we stick with the store to where when dad retires in about 10 years, we already have 15% in it. Or do we look for something that has a higher income, but then we wouldn't own the store? So I don't know. We're torn, and there's some days that we're like, yeah, it's worth it in the long run. And then some days it's like, but man, it'd be cool to pay off the house in three to four years

instead of 10 years. I don't know. So my question is, what's the long run look like with real numbers? And is it really worth it? I'm not questioning as I don't think it is. I'm asking you if you played that out. What's the store worth? Why is it worth it?

The store, why is it worth it personally or financially? No, what's the store worth? What's the value of the store if he sold it today? The value of the store today would be between $2.5 and $3 million. Okay. So 1% is $25,000. Right. And so this year we would have three.

How did you come up with that value? That's what he's gone by. And so he just did a re-evaluation of everything too and the bank said hey you're we are worth between 2.5 and 3 does that include real estate that includes real estate and that's just the hardware store so he also owns like a bed and breakfast around the corner and etc well the question is are you going to get all of that are you the only kid the only kid that wants it so my brother has no interest in any of it and so he's told you got to buy your brother out of his share no okay all right so well 25,000

dollars a year on top of 34 or on top of uh that that helps your income. Basically, that's what 1% is worth, right? Correct. Yeah. So then you just ask yourself, could he hire a manager, a couple of managers for $34,000 apiece plus $25,000 bonus? Probably not. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, because it's just me and my husband that manage the store, and then there's a couple of high school kids that come and help. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, because it's just me and my husband that manage the store,

and then there's a couple of high school kids that come and help. Yeah. I mean, we're out in my country. What does the store make? What's the profit on it? Couldn't tell you off the top of my head. I don't have the numbers in front of me. Okay.

Well, hold on. No, I'm not going to waste your time with me. That's okay. That's okay. That's okay. Well, I'm not questioning your contentment or whether that's fair or not. It's just a matter of is this a fair deal to you, and that's really what you're asking. And the fair deal to you is the answer to that is the math for me. I don't think he's giving you enough percentage per year to make me excited if I'm you.

He needs to up this to 5% a year to where after 10 years you own 50%. Okay, that makes sense. I'd be excited about that. Oh, and by the way, as I own more percentage, that percentage of the profit comes to me each year because I'm one of the owners. I don't own 25% and you keep 100% of the profit. Yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah, I think you just need to talk to your dad about it because his intent is not to run you off. Right.

And his intent is not to be cheap. He just hasn't thought it through. And you're going, Dad, when I think this this through the numbers don't make sense to us five percent a year would make sense to us and so you're saying at the end of the year say we own three percent he should give you three percent of the profits and five percent of ownership yeah It's like a dividend payment. I have a question. If you own 10%, you get 10% of the profits and you know,

now we're talking that's fairly generous. You get 10% of the profits and 5% more ownership each year. But each year he bonuses you 5% ownership. Because then you don't have to buy out, I mean, I don't want you 85% having to buy him out after you've done this, enslaved all these years. That doesn't feel right.

Yeah, so I have a quick question on this. Do you guys want to be in the feed business, the hardware business, or do you just want to own your own business? It's probably a combo of the two. I love this sort. I grew up here, and I love the people, and I love serving the community. The community is a big part of it for me. That's a good question.

From the beginning, it's never been. Because none of this matters if you hate every day, but you don't hate every day. Exactly. No. Yeah, that's what I wanted to know first. I think Dave is absolutely right. I think you guys got to have a money conversation because I'm going to throw this out. I'm curious to know what Dave's going to say about this.

It's not a guarantee that dad's going to walk away in 10 years either. It's hard for founders to walk away. So that to me also, that's why I asked that first question. Is it really worth it? And what I mean by that question is Dave addressed it. Is it worth it year in, year out? But I'm also asking, is it worth it year in year out but I'm also asking is it worth it 15 years from now what could turn into 25 years I just think that's what he needs to give

you in writing that he's done in 10 years he gives you five percent a year and he pays you your percentage of ownership and profits every year that's a fair deal that makes sense he would have to do that if it was a third party coming in to interest them in taking it, managing it for him. To get a world-class manager that knows the community and cares as deeply as you do, he would have to pay that kind of money to get them. That makes sense.

And this doesn't hurt him. He's in good shape. He's fine. Yeah. We need to work towards that. By the way, way too you need to add up all this stuff and if it's worth more than 20 million dollars uh i don't think it is but if it is you guys need a detailed estate plan because the freaking federal government is going to come take some of it when he dies if you don't have a good estate plan but a written game plan that you take over the store, buy out the remaining ownership after 10 years.

And in the meantime, he gives you 5% a year. And in the meantime, your percentage of ownership gets paid out in profits every year on top of that. And you get paid your salary. That's a fair deal. That is not an unfair deal at all. And it's a good way for him to not have to pay out cash right now. And it accomplishes his long-term goal which is to hand off the store so yeah it's um but if his only income is coming from this store this is going to be scary for him i think it is i think it's gonna be an interesting

conversation yeah very cool so ken makes a good point those of us that are founders and i'm one of them that found a business as we've studied family business succession planning um the hardest move is from generation one to generation two the founder handing off is very tough because they're all wrapped up in it those of us that are founders are hard heads we're stubborn we gutted it. And we don't like to let go of stuff. We like to control stuff. And so it's very hard for us to hand off to the next generation. The most emotional handoff is Gen 1 to Gen 2. And the founder, it's incumbent upon them to be a grown-up and to count on the next generation taking over. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America. Danelle is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Danelle. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? I have a little dilemma that we're trying to figure out what we need to do. I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantra, and it's got over 200,000 miles on it. And around the end of October, I was backing up out of a parking spot, and a guy behind me backed into my car. And it didn't ruin my car, so I couldn't drive it. But his insurance totaled my car. Great. So now, yeah. I mean, you're driving a hoopty, and you're getting a check.

Yeah. Yeah, I can get a check for it for sure. I can get $37.45 and keep it, and I'll have to get a salvage tile. No. Or they'll give me $45.38. No. You take the full pay, give them the car, go get you a car. Okay.

If the car was in good shape and it was 200,000 mile 2012 Elantra, what's it actually worth? Have you looked it up? Yeah, it's probably under $5,000. Well, that's what they're giving you is under $5,000. Yeah, yeah. I want you to make sure that what they're giving you is the actual value of the car. Well, the $45,000 is what they would give me, and that's what I've looked at.

No, honey, they're going to give you the value of the car. That's the law. Okay. They may not have understood that yet you may have to help them with that yeah but they're supposed to give you the value of the car they got the guy tore your car up so um didn't take much to total this car but it's okay cool i'm glad so i want you guys uh you said we are you marriedhuh. Okay. You guys jump on the computer before you accept the offer and find out from Kelly Blue Book what the retail value of that car is and enter it with 200,000 miles, no damage, and the

attributes of that car, the accessories it has, and so forth um and then look on stuff like uh trader.com and find some that are for sale that look similar in mileage and if you find out that car is worth 5200 you call this insurance company up and say uh you need to pay me 5200 and here's the appraisal from kelly blue book and here's three cars on total on trader.com that look the same and they all these things say 5200 not 4500 and the guy will go okay all right who's the insurance company they're bear river mutual what say it again say it again bear river that's the actual insurance company not they wrote the policy do what bear river mutual okay i just don't know that one okay all right well i because sometimes i know the reputation like if it's state farm you can pretty much sure be assured they're trying to

screw you okay yeah that's it's like their modus operandi okay okay? Jake? I've been hit by State Farm people twice, and it's been a problem both times, okay? They're just a pain in the butt. And see, it cost them a lot because I just said that. But anyway, just verify that the actual cost value of the car. I'm not trying to rip them off. I want them to pay you what you're due. That's all. Yeah. It's an honest transaction. Even it i'm sorry i mean with the ding in the car is no darling there

wasn't a ding in the car before he hit it oh okay before he hit it what was the car worth yeah okay because that's what they owe you that's the market value of the car because you're going to take the cash and go buy that exact car on trader.com from somebody else that's the market value of the car because you're going to take the cash and go buy that exact car on trader.com from somebody else that's what you're going to have to pay for it yeah that's what they should give you they should replace your car no you don't keep your car okay my other question for you then is this car was almost dead before this guy put a bullet in it let it die yeah it's true it's true okay so i have i have listened to you for years and i just get sick to my stomach now thinking about even taking a loan out on a vehicle well don't we buy a five thousand dollar car put aside

pardon buy a five thousand dollar car okay you have five thousand dollars you were driving a Pardon? Buy a $5,000 car. Okay. You have $5,000. You were driving a $5,000 car before this happened. True. So it was doing, it was perfectly good with your life, or good enough for now. How much money do you have set aside, and is that earmarked for something else, or was it for a car replacement? It's to go towards a car replacement. How much you got? We have about $7,000.

$7,000? So then you thousand so then that's your car fund yeah okay well then you can buy a twelve thousand dollar car yeah okay yeah all right i just my husband wants me to have a car that he knows we can depend on and he's like where was this husband before you got hit in the parking lot he was sitting next to me i know i know but you see what i'm saying he wasn't he wasn't whining about you having something that was dependable when you're driving this five thousand dollar hoopty you were saving up to get out of the hoopty now you got you sold the hoopty you just sold it to an insurance company yep you're right a lot lot of $12,000 cars that you can rely on. Excellent vehicles for $12,000. Excellent.

A car that'll do anything. It'll do double backflips. You can get great cars for $12,000. Yes. Okay. The best value in the market is $10,000 to $15,000. It's the best buy in the car market. You get the most bang for your buck.

And you can get a great vehicle for that that'll last you for a long time yes yes yes yes yes there's no reason for you to go in debt hon it's just it was an event thank god nobody was hurt it's a little parking lot ding and it's just sad that your car the parking lot ding i never heard anybody got totaled in the part in the kroger parking lot but there you go so bump you're totaled i mean that i was gonna say that was quite a incident he must have been on his way to the game with the wings and the chips and salsa now he's in a hurry something going on amber's in spokane amber welcome to the ramsey show thank you i just have a quick question actually two part-part question. I have an 18-year-old son.

He's still in high school. He will be 19 next year graduating, and he is planning on opening his own business. Doing what? With his landscaping, with his own money. Good. He's very smart with money. He doesn't have any debt. He won't get a credit card.

He only uses what he has. But I was trying to explain to him the other day that he can do it with a zero credit score. And he and I, I am also confused a little bit too, but I know it's possible. So he doesn't want to take out any loans he doesn't need a credit score so why do you need a credit score i think he's more worried about if something comes up where he has to borrow money borrow borrow to yeah if he has to get a bigger machine or... Well, that already is going to come up. 100% of the people that buy machines buy too many of them. Well, he has a plan to buy used.

And cash. And if something comes up, he'll buy used and cash. He does not need a credit score. Do not use debt as your backstop in case of emergencies in business because you will live in debt the rest of your life because a hundred percent of there's three rules in business it takes twice as long as you think it costs twice as much as you think and you're not the exception those are the three rules of business the nice thing is is that he understands all three of those rules and he doesn't need a credit score. Okay.

The other question is I have is how I've been trying to get him to listen to your show or, or read your book or, and he's 18. I'll give him that because he's just, he's still in that mentality stage where he's 18 and is there something i don't want to push too hard so that he doesn't do it all together but is there i know you have have books and programs and stuff like that but i've already bought those and he he wasn't interested in it is it something that may come along later on when he's going through i guess i mean the only thing i can tell you is the only only good i've ever been able to do with

my kids once they turned 18 and beyond was i tried to try my best to not use my dad voice because once i do they quit listening i have to use my persuasive uncle voice like i'm their uncle that loves them and has no power because i am that person that has no power once they're 18 so you've been using your mom voice you need to listen to dave that won't work he won't he turned that off immediately use your friend voice and maybe maybe he'll pick it up probably not but maybe he will. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America.

So, interest rates on home mortgages are dropping. It's having a predictable effect. Just to give you a little history, the 30-year interest rates on the 11th of December were 7.1. Now they're 6.6. The high was 8%, so it's down almost 1.5% from the high. The 15-year on the 11th of december was 6.5 uh it's sitting right now at uh 6.0 is down a half a percent the high was 7.35 so it's down 1.35 from the high so interest rates on home mortgages dropping is about a 10% drop, which equals about a little less than 1% drop,

but not from the high from just the other day, which is $275 a month on a $400,000 house, just to give you an idea. 1% is. That's a change. So what we've seen since the day after Christmas is a huge increase in consumer demand for mortgages and agents. And we've also seen a similar increase in the number of pros, real estate pros, trying to become one of our Ramsey Trusted Pros during that time. So all of that means the real estate market's coming back to life after a really cold dark winter yeah it's pretty much sitting dormant and uh this little drop it's a one percent basically across the board uh since in a month that's a lot um and really one and a half percent since it is causing people that were sitting on the sidelines to come back into the market even some real estate agents that were kind of waiting i'll just wait until spring before

i go selling houses i don't know what the flip you people are doing but anyway with the real ramsey trusted pros are people that are people that sell you know 100 to 300 houses a year they're they're high octane high protein real estate agents they're not your uncle charlie who got his license three weeks ago uh and who wants to and it gets his feelings hurt if you don't list your 500 000 freaking house with a newbie which would be the definition of dumb okay so we don't we don't hire uncle charlie as one of our remsey trusted pros we get the the top people out there because real estate business is a business where people come in and out like a revolving door depending on how devoted they

are to that as a career. But if you're devoted to it as a career and you're selling large volume, you didn't sit on the sidelines in the last three months while a lot of people did. That's exactly right. I mean, but what's really interesting about this, and you said this, we've talked about this on the show, you know, people were shocked by the increase in rates. And then the minute you start to see a little drop, you had people that were all pent up and now they're moving. And so it's going to be very interesting to see. And it's an election year. Hello. It is. And you explained this to me years ago. So I want to tee you up to talk about it because the Fed right now is kind of hedging its bets. You see a lot of different news on it, but there's no guarantee that the Fed

is going to actually drop rates. They said they're going to be in a holding pattern, but that doesn't mean they're going to drop. So we may stay where we are, but regardless, that's not what is going to drive the actual mortgage rate. It's people, it's the bond market and the whole. Mortgages are sold as bonds once they're packaged together. And so the bond, the interest rate, the prevailing interest rate on the bond market is the mortgage rate. That's right. Period. That drives the mortgage rate. The Fed has absolutely no direct connection to mortgage rates.

That's right. The Fed rate is the rate that banks borrow money from each other. It's the wholesale money rate in the industry. That's all it is. And so it is not a direct connection. But it does, you know, it does, you know, telescope out, right, you know, telegraph out where we're going. And it's not unusual with the Fed raises rates. You're going to see that bond market raise rates.

And when the bond market raises rates, your mortgage rates go up. So that's what's going on but um you know you got to think anything the biden administration can do to put pressure on the fed to not do that they're going to do because a president that is in a very weak precarious political position add a bad economy to it and you got a hundred percent chance of non-reelection that's right there's a lot of speculation so they're going to do everything they can to get rates down um and that's not politics that's just history of politics so yeah right good luck with that yeah good luck being a president and trying to get re-elected in either party when the economy is bad in your watch good luck with that there's almost zero time

that has happened like i think it is zero do you have an opinion on if it will be a long time before we get back to the rates that we've had over the last five ten years no economists and weather forecasters are the only people that can be wrong all the time and keep their jobs i love it you're like i'm not touching that one no i have I have no idea because I do know this. I do know this. 100% of the time they go up and down. And they've been up a while, so they're kind of due to come down. You know, it's real.

I mean, that's, you know, it's always going to go up. No, it's not. It's going to come back down. No, it's always going to go down. No, it's not. It's going to go back up. I mean, it's the same with the stock market. You know, it's going to move.

About all we know is change is coming that's a hundred percent prediction on change and i i honestly think that anything that any political pressure that can be brought any administrative pressure that can be brought to bring rates down it's going to occur because i mean whoever's running the biden administration's not they got to have a clue that even if someone else is running in the Democratic Party, they're not going to get in if they don't get this straightened out. Because the economic situation is dire with the inflation and with the high interest rates. You've got true stagflation going on. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Milagros is with us in Charlotte. Hey, Milagros, how are you? Good afternoon. Good, how are you? Great, how can we help? Well, I am a new teacher. I worked my first year in 2023, and I recently discovered your show about two months ago. So I've changed my way, but I wanted to give you a little bit of background before I tell you what my end goal is by now. I'm a first-generation student graduating in 2022, so I had to take a lot of loans out and private loans as well to pay for school because I was decided to be the first one to graduate in my family. How much debt do you have honey?

So I have $8,000 a private loan that was originally $6,000 and it's still growing but I'm paying monthly now with very high interest and how much debt do you have honey uh 28 federal student loan 19 000 a car 5 000 credit card and that's it okay are you ready to stop borrowing money because you've been borrowing on everything in sight yeah i got a second job and now i'm paying with that second what are you getting paid as a first year teacher in north carolina 38 yeah and you got a 19 000 car you can't afford right you got student loans coming out your ears you bought a car way too expensive i know that was the first mistake that I made after graduating because I thought I was a big girl, big girl job,

and I could afford a car, but now I'm paying it every month. Now you've got big girl problems. Yeah. Okay, let's get rid of it. Let's sell the car and get you a cheap one. Yeah, I've tried to, but I'm scared like no one's going to buy it. Well, how would we know? We've not tried.

Yeah. The path that, listen, the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. You've been borrowing on school and justified that. You borrowed on a car and justified that you borrowed on a steak dinner and put it on a credit card and justified that some point you got to quit borrowing and justifying. At some point, you got to say, this is stupid. And I'm going to go back to ground zero and start building my life. I make $34,000 a year. I'm a first round teacher, and I'm going to pick up tutoring jobs on the side and double my income and get these stupid student loans and credit cards out of my life. Cut up the credit cards

tonight and sell the car this week. Time to take radical action, kiddo. If you want to win, that's how you do it. And I'm trying to shock you and break you loose here, because how you grew up has nothing to do with student loans. It's because you didn't work while you were in school. That's why you have student loans because you could have worked your way through. A bunch of people do every day right now. So it's okay. I'm not mad at you, but don't walk around justifying this.

Get it cleaned up now because it's between you and becoming wealthy. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.