The Ramsey Show - App - I’m $100K in Debt and Living in My Car (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in, we'll talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your emotional health, all of it right here in front of you on the show. Chelsea kicks us off this hour in Phoenix. Chelsea, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, George. Hi, Dr. John. Hey, how can we help today? Okay, so I'll just lay it out and I guess we can go from there. I'm 30. I am in about 102 to be exact, K in debt. And I decided to not renew my lease last summer. I converted my car.

So I'm living in my car full time. It was by choice, but now I feel like it's something I'm depending on to try to pay off debt. And I'm pretty much, I feel like I keep making the same dead-end choices. I come from a family who all are in debt. No one's financial literate, and I really want to make that change for myself and not keep carrying that burden. But this is my first time really realizing that I need help, and I'm confused, don't know where to start, how to organize all of this so that I cannot run into this again.

Do you have a support system at all or are you all by yourself, hun? I'm by myself. I live in Phoenix. It's just me and my dog. I moved out here a couple years ago. All of my family is back on the East Coast and I'm just figuring it out. What is in Arizona? I originally came here for a job. I got laid off from that job. And thankfully I did get another job three months later as of March 23. So I've been with them for about a year.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. Honey, you live on the street. Yeah. What's in Arizona on the street. Yeah. What's in Arizona? This is not a life for you. Like if you're my sister, if you're my friend, I don't want this for you. What's in Arizona?

Nothing anymore since I'm not with that job. The current job I have now is remote. Um, and I decided to do like, you know, a little bit of travel and road trips and take advantage of that to kind of figure out the next step really. Okay. What is so, and tell me, I'm not, I'm not, this isn't a judgment question. This is just me asking what is so unsafe about going back to the West coast or the East coast and staying with a relative or a friend for six months to get your feet back under you a lot of trauma ptsd okay if it's abusive don't go back i'm just i'm just i'm wondering that's what i'm digging at so if there's

if it's a mess don't go back there okay not safe yeah uh yes and no i'd rather i'm the type of Okay. Not safe? Yes and no. I'd rather, I'm the type of person to figure it out on my own. I can move back into an apartment at least, but I figured like that money could go towards debt instead. You're in, I can't tell you how unsafe your position is right now yeah you're living on the street you got to get yourself a place to stay this is not a two-month plan you're going to be living in your car for four or five years at this rate even if you if you apply for an emergency housing voucher there in phoenix arizona you got to find a place where you can have four walls over your head. If you have to go to a shelter, go to a shelter. I want you to be safe. And the thought of my daughter spending the night month after month in a car on the side of the road in Phoenix, Arizona, when it's about to be 118 degrees every day, it's untenable. I can't even,

my heart stops thinking about that. What kind of car is this? Such a great question. It's like a mattress in the trunk situation. You said you converted it. Yeah, no, I converted the whole thing. It's a Kia Soul. And I originally, I was around the country. I was exploring. I actually did get like a house sitting gig for the summer while I'm here, so that I'm not in the heat. And then I was going to head back to the coast of California to continue like to travel. Right now is not our time to eat, pray, love and travel. That's a distraction from facing your real life.

Yeah. And we need to clean up this debt before we go on another road trip. That means you're going to have to get some stability and get yourself a full-time job and two part-time jobs and pay this stuff off. And maybe you get a few good gals and you have a few roommates. You don't have to keep doing this on your own. So how much money do you make? 44 a year with my full-time job. And I've done some Ubering on the side so that probably brings in about 15 to 20. Okay well Phoenix just moved all their Ubers to autonomous didn't they? I'm not sure. A big chunk of them? I do the Uber Eats I don't do the pickup people yeah.

You're making about 60k and you have 100 in debt. What kind of debt is all this? $38,000 is for a student loan. Another $47,000 is another student loan. $17,000 is car and the rest is credit card. Okay. What was your degree in? Communications, broadcast journalism. And what are you doing for work right now?

HR. Okay. Would you want to be doing something closer to your field? Yes. I think it's possible. I think you took whatever job was there, which is totally fine, but I wanted you to move into something that you're really passionate about, because that's going to end up increasing your income over time and going to help you pay off this debt. Because right now, how much money can you throw at the debt every month between the payments and the extra?

Maybe $1,000 or $2,000 a month. Have you done the math on that? That's 10 years, not including interest. $1,000 a month is 100 months for you to become debt-free. Yeah, I should be definitely doing way more. We need to be throwing more like $2,000 or $3,000 a month. Okay. That's $33,000 a year.

You're done in three years max. So that's where we need to figure out how to get that margin. If that means you move back with some family or friends or you get three roommates, you you do that but we can't keep living in this car is the car loan on this kia yes i'm guessing you're underwater on this car i doubt you're going to be able to sell it after you converted it like that very much underwater well you're going to debt snowball all this and pay off the smallest balance the largest that means splitting up all the student loans, splitting up the credit cards,

and paying off the smallest one first. And if you're going to keep living a nomadic life, pick a place that's cheaper so you can get an apartment. Phoenix is incredibly expensive for somebody making $40,000 just trying to find two pennies to rub together. Move to Kansas, move to Nebraska, move to somewhere that's cheaper to live. Yeah.

And listen to me, you cannot outrun this debt. You can't pretend it never happened and you can't just wander off, like wanderlusted away. At some point it's going to come for you. And my fear is you're not you're not going to listen to the thing george and i say and you're going to look up in five years and that 100 grand is going to be 175 000 with penalties and late fees and they'll garnish your wages they will come get their money you're gonna have to just stop and grow up and have a

hard hard couple of years and then you're going to be free and then if you want to drive around the country drive around the country i'm all for it man i'm a going to be free. And then if you want to drive around the country, drive around the country. I'm all for it, man. I'm a dreamer too. But man, you got to cut these chains. I was going to send you a book, but you don't have an address right now. So instead, hang on the line.

I'm going to get your email and we'll send you the digital versions of Breaking Free From Broke, the ebook and the audio book. I hope it helps you get out of this cycle. You're going to break it. You're going to break the generational chains. Debt is not in the DNA.

We checked. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Bologna. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Bethany in Connecticut. What does Bethany have to say, John? All right, Bethany asks,

My husband and I are in our mid-30s and self-made millionaires. We are debt-free and have a fully funded emergency fund, retirement accounts, education funds for our children, and we own three rental properties. Our combined after-tax income is about $600,000 a year. We could be investing more, but we're not on the same page on how to invest. I'm more conservative and lean towards mutual funds, but my husband prefers to invest in venture capital funds, startups, and real estate.

As the higher earner, he subtly infers that his opinion holds more weight than mine and says that his lifetime earning potential is so vast that I shouldn't even care. Oh, geez. I'm afraid this attitude could lead to the collapse of what we've worked so hard to build. You are correct, Bethany. From a relationship perspective, can you offer some advice on how we can find a mutually agreeable way to decide what we invest in and continue to build wealth? George, you can answer the question, but Bethany, this is not a retirement question issue.

This is your husband thinks he's smarter and better than you. Your husband thinks you are dumb. And your husband placates you and pats you on the head and says, pat, pat. It's all going to be okay. And then he goes and does whatever he wants because, let's be honest, he makes more money than you. And these kinds of guys make my skin crawl. They make my skin crawl because it's so nonsensical. So until you guys get that part of your marriage figured out that y'all are together on the same team 50 50 who cares how much it's all going the same pot and um y'all just y'all decide we're going to

build something together and now we're going to we're going to disagree over what bricks we're going to use and what stucco we're going to use for the house or whatever or the siding whatever then you can have the conversation about investment vehicles. Yeah, this is one part of a much bigger story, which is your entire life. And I love that you're at least on the same page with the fundamental principles of we're debt-free, fully funded, emergency fund. We've got three, I assume, paid for rentals if they're debt-free. So you're doing a lot of things correctly, but I don't like the arrogance and pride that he's projecting with this idea that like i know better listen i know you want to do these cute mutual funds i want to do these venture capital funds and startups which by the way have a lot more risk now they can have

more reward but he's getting starry-eyed here and uh the prideful investor is the one that it's about to get his butt handed to him and do you have any data on startup like funding i haven't looked into that to see like the percentage that fail or the percentage that you know the volatility of these yeah my understanding that it's kind of like the bill gates and steve jobs it's like you don't got to go to college you don't need to get any kind of training look at bill gates and steve jobs like well good guys um okay cool so everyone's just like well just go back and invest in uber 20 years ago it's like it doesn't work like exactly that that people are like man i made a trillion dollar like uh uh ashton kutcher made so much money you're right he did he's better at

this than y'all are and he knew some friends and had some good questions and he's a he's a very savvy investor um but that leaves out the billions of dollars that are lost every year by some guy with the next app or the next new idea, the next good idea. Right. It's just, man. And like Dave says, you can out-earn your stupidity for a long time. And you guys are probably going to be fine because you're not over-leveraged. You don't have a lot of debt.

But I would say, hey, let's have some guardrails about how we invest. You like to invest here. I like to invest here. Let's set a foundation. We're going to max out all of our tax advantage retirement accounts. We're going to invest in mutual funds. Then beyond this percentage, X percentage of our income, anything beyond that, you can invest. This is essentially play money. Oh, I like that. So let's say 15, what's 15% of 600,000? Is that 90? Let's say it's, let's pretend it's 90.

I can't do math like Dave Kane in his head. I was right, John. Let's say it's 90. I can't do math like Dave Kane in his head. I was right, John. Let's say it's 90,000. Yeah, so we're going to cover, we're going to do all the matches. We're going to max out both our 401ks, we're going to fully fund the backdoor Roth IRAs, and we're going to fully max out the HSA, and then beyond that,

here's how we're going to spend our money. Go play. And I think being in agreement on that and letting him have, you know, hey, you're going to have $20,000 in play money. Or maybe since we make 600 grand and we have maxed out everything and we're all, everything's paid off, I'll double it.

Yeah, of our 600 a year, we're going to take home about 450 of that. Go play with 50 of it. Go play with 75 of it. Go start up whatever. Go set it on fire in the front yard. Go start a business. We're going to continue to be conservative with these basic principles over time.

I just like having a little compromise here. I don't think he's doing anything wrong, but he's not listening to her, and he's not giving her a vote. And that, to me, is the part that's wrong in all of this. Yeah. So, Bethany, your question, can you offer some advice on how we can find a mutually agreeable way to decide what we invest in? Let's start with, okay, we're in our mid thirties and we've made millions of dollars. Our marriage is now different. He's

married to a different wife. You're married to a different husband. Let's rebuild and reimagine our marriage as one of two people on the same page, doing the same thing, working towards the same goal. Let's start there. And asking, asking what are we really after what do we want this thing to look like if we hit five million what then yeah we had 10 million what then and most people find they just had an arbitrary number and it just was exciting to chase the next and then you hit 10 and it's like well let's let's double the business maybe you're not the kind of business leader that can run a 20 million dollar company but you can dominate a handshake $10 million company. Awesome. Be that guy and do it well, or get some people in your life that can

help you with it. But let's have those conversations. Don't let them accidentally happen, because then you're right. You're going to accidentally just keep rolling and rolling and fall right off a cliff. Yeah. Hope that helps. All right. Eric is in Portland up next. What's happening, Eric? Good morning. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I've got a nine-year-old daughter who is fortunate enough to have inherited about $7,000. And I'm trying to decide what the best thing to do with that is.

I don't know if a college fund or a mutual fund. Crypto, man. Buy crypto. Just kidding. Don't do that, Eric. Someone's going to clip that call. John Deloney said. Wow. So who gave her this? My father passed away a few years ago. And this money is now sitting in a bank account somewhere? Correct. Yeah. Not doing anything. And is it in your bank account? No, my sister was in control. And so it's sitting in an account that she has at the moment. Okay. But you can do

what you would like with this money now. Correct. Yeah. I think college is a great place to store this money because of the tax advantages. It acts similar to a Roth IRA to where you put this money away, it's going to grow tax-free for college-related expenses. Worst case, after I think it's 15 years now with the new Secure 2.0 Act, you're able to roll that over to a Roth IRA with no penalty if they don't end up needing or using it. So a lot of people are spooked going, I don't want to put money there. What if my kid doesn't go to college? Well, now you can roll over a certain amount to a Roth IRA and then that becomes retirement money for her. So that's one option. The other option is if there's a more short-term goal, let's say, hey, her first car, this is going to be the money that

she's going to use. And we're going to park this, let's say she's nine, let's say she's driving by what, 16. I don't know what the Oregon age is. Yep. Yep. But this is going to be money that goes toward the car. And we're going to put it in a brokerage account, in a mutual fund or index fund, or even a high-yield savings account and make 5%. Because the goal here is the 7K is not, we're not trying to become multimillionaires off the 7K right now. Right.

It's just what can we do to set her up well as she steps into adulthood. And so I think car or college are the best things, and the best vehicles would be a 529 plan for college, or you could do a brokerage account. There's also UTMAs and UGMAs and things you can look into that are under your control until she's 18. And Eric, this is terrible money advice. This is just the heart behind it all.

I like thinking when there's some sort of inheritance, I like thinking what would make the person who left the money just sit back with that shoulders drop smile? Like if your dad's a car guy and he'd love to see your daughter pulling up in a car that's paid for in cash and he would just sit back and get a big grin on his face i don't know man i kind of lean that way and if your dad was all about you go to college you're getting educated you're getting educated and the thought that that his inheritance that he left to his daughter is going to grow and pay for part of her first semester of like like whoever your dad was like just that sitting back and smiling i i

like to let that guide me a little bit. It's not going to make the final decision, but I sure like to imagine that moment. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you said with the Roth IRA, if she doesn't use it after 15 years, we can roll it into a Roth if she decides not to go to school. Yes. And so don't let that spook you about what if she doesn't go to college. There's going to be room to switch that account over. So I think the fact you're calling in tells me you're going to make a good decision with this money.

You're a great dad. Thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Ryan's up next in Salt Lake City, Utah. What's happening, Ryan? Hey, guys. How's it going? Can you hear me all right? Yeah, you sound good. What's your question today? Hey, so just a little bit of background. Well, rather, my question is, how do I manage my finances in regard to vehicular repairs when I have a wedding coming up in the fall while I'm at the same time trying

to save for a home. Sounds like you're trying to do a lot at once. A little bit, yes, sir. The wedding has a planned date. Did you already sign a contract for the venue and everything? Yes, sir. Okay. That one is immovable. How necessary and urgent are these vehicle repairs? So it's fairly mild. It's more a question of if I have too much truck. So maybe to provide a little context, I was in the Army, and I'm utilizing the GI Bill right now, and all the money I saved in the Army, I used to buy a car, and the truck I have now, which has turned into a work vehicle, started as a toy. Now I use it as a work vehicle.

It's just a lot of repairs, one after the other. So the plan was once I get married, sell her car, keep my car because it's a little on the nicer side. But I'm just worried that I'm spending too much money on repairs because the differential needs to be serviced here. The other needs to be fixed. Do you have any debt on these cars, or is this all debt-free? It's all debt-free. Okay. Getting nauseous at the thought of pulling out a loan.

What kind of truck is it? It is a 1997 F-350 with the diesel motor and manual transmission. Bro, that truck will be alive at the end. You'll ride that through the apocalypse. That's the plan. Okay. Man. So you want to hang on to this for now.

I would keep doing whatever necessary repairs and ride it through the fall. But the goal right now, I don't think you need to be in home buying mode yet. Let's just get through this wedding season, and it is a season. It's going to have its ups and downs. Let's rent for six months or a year, and then we can look into home ownership with your new spouse. Yes, sir. I guess the follow-up question to that truck is, I mean,

I'd rather keep this truck than spend $100,000 on a brand new one. I'd rather just keep fixing this one until they don't make the parts anymore. Well, I'm guessing it's not worth much. No doubt. At what point are the repairs? Clean out that dirty mouth of yours. It's emotionally worth a lot, but what could you sell it for with the issues on it? Yes, sir.

Could you get a few thousand bucks? What's that threshold that we crossed? Because I can do all the repairs on my own. I was a mechanic in the Army. George is just trying to put a price tag on a piece of American craftsmanship like that Ford F-350. Just don't listen to a word he's saying. I'm with Dr. John here. That truck's a master.

I'm sure they'll feature it on American Pickers one day, but right now we've got financial goals. Yeah, it's very expensive. I don't want you to sink $8,000 into it if it's only worth $3,000. Yes, sir. And I think that's the heart of your question, is how much do I really pour into this thing before it gives up the ghost and I go, we had a good time?

I guess I'm thinking like the replacement cost, like if I had to get another vehicle for work, like I'd much rather spend three grand on transmission than sell that and get five out of it and spend 20 on another truck. So it's okay to pour a bunch of money in this versus going out and buying a $50,000 truck. And because it's a work truck, I would not spend a lot of money on it. It's a very utility thing. And so once you guys are married, I think that's the time to start making those kinds of decisions and prioritizing, hey, when do we want to buy a home? When is it time to upgrade the truck? All of that will come into play once you guys combine finances.

But for now, unless it's on its last leg and you have to upgrade, I wouldn't. I'd keep doing these repairs, doing them yourself to save money. It doesn't sound like you're going to pour much more than a few thousand more into it. No, sir. No, it's just trying to, well, I was saying good graces with fiance, if you understand. Dude, I drove a 96 and my wife was finally like, Hey, you got to choose us, me or the truck. And I was, I was a long night of sleep. I lost before I finally settled on my 15 year marriage, but Hey, but listen, uh, actually she didn't do that at all. I was the one that was embarrassed enough that I just finally get rid of it. But, um, you have a picture

and you're a good guy and you're working real hard and you're going to school um on the gi bill you're a serviceman you're working hard with your truck your mechanic you can do all these things and you have this picture of a guy that gets married and buys his wife a house don't you yes sir yeah just that picture is beautiful and it's right and if you rush it you're going to crash the whole thing so just keep that picture on the fridge and tell your wife let's we're going to save up here's our plan let's do it for a year and let's do x and let's do everything in order george nailed it don't do everything at the same time man it's a recipe for everything being a little bit lukewarm and nothing just what you

want you're gonna buy a house that's kind of your wedding's gonna be a little if you add home shopping to your fiance's to-do list, she will explode on top of all the details she has to deal with for this wedding. Yes. Even if it's chill for you, it's not for her. And so I would get through this. Let's get married. Let's see how much money we come to the table with. Let's make sure that she's on board, that we knock out our debts if she has any. We've got this big pile of money now on top of the emergency fund. Then you can make a decision with peace instead of rushing into it because you're trying to be a great husband.

No doubt. So you're on the right path, and I would just put as much as you need to for the repairs within reason. If there's something that's like this is going to be $10,000, I would just take a picture with it and sing a song. I don't know what you do for trucks, John, when you say goodbye. You never say goodbye. The truck says goodbye to you, George. Oh, wow. And then it floats away

into truck heaven? I mean, there's some who have said they've seen that. All trucks go to heaven, according to John. Priuses go somewhere else. Ron is with us in Oklahoma City. What's happening, Ron? Ron, he knows about a good truck out there in Oklahoma. How are you guys doing?

We're good, man. What's up, man? Thanks for all you guys do. Thank you. I'm almost 62. I feel bad asking this. I'm good. But I don't want to be stupid with my money in retirement.

I've learned to live on $2,500 a month, but now my checking account is going up $3,000 a month, and I feel like I'm wasting it. The only debt I have is my home, 40 acres with a mobile home, $500 a month. That's my only, well, utilities. But you owe $500 a month on the mortgage? Yes. Okay. About three years left on that. So I feel like this extra money has a goal. Let's pay off this mortgage.

Okay. What else would you do with it? Because it's not a bank mortgage. It's to the guy I bought it from. He's getting older, and I've been feeling bad. Especially pay him off. Especially pay him off. A bank is faceless. This guy's got a bank mortgage. It's to the guy I bought it from. He's getting older, and I've been feeling bad. Especially pay him off. Especially pay him off. A bank is faceless.

This guy's got a face. And he's going to die, and his kids are going to sue you, and they're going to make up, it's going to be a mess. Pay him off. What's left on the mortgage? Okay. On the loan? Oh, probably about 15 grand.

Okay. How much money do you have in cash in the bank? 65. Ron, what are you doing? Pay it off today. You'll free up another 500 bucks, and you're going to be fine in retirement. I will call him up today. Oh, I love it.

I love it, Ron. What's your bigger retirement plan? Like I said, it's a personal guy. It's not like some institution. Yeah, that's great. I don't worry about him. They're good people. Get the title in writing, of course.

But, hey, I want to go back to something you said when you first called and i and i've i've grown so sick of this in our culture that we just beat up on one side we beat up the people uh the least of these in our communities and on the other side we beat up those who have done really well and who have taken care of their business and have gotten lucky and have just been good stewards of their money and their jobs don't ever be ashamed that you've done well and that you have found yourself sadly i didn't learn it from you guys my parents lived through the depression i know i learned how to be cheap hey hey i'm with you um you should have listened to the last call i'm with you But find ways to be generous with that money. Find ways to enjoy that money

and find ways to bless future generations, people in your community. You can do a lot of good with that money, man. But don't be ashamed of it. I do enjoy the fact that I have several charities that I give to. I love it. Good. You don't want to fly a tire, Ron.

That's the big lesson here. So you can spend more, you can save and invest some of this into retirement accounts or brokerage accounts outside of retirement, and then you can give. And that's really the only three things you can do with money. So learn to get really good at all three. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Dillon. We've got some new events happening. One of those is Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials. And good news for all of you in America, this is a virtual event. So you can tune in from anywhere. You don't have to travel. You can enjoy it from the comfort of your home online. And Dave Ramsey and I will be deep diving on investing.

And for the first time ever, he's going to share his personal playbook on investing, including how he buys real estate. And this is a two-night virtual event, about two hours per night, May 21st and 22nd. And yes, you can watch the replay, I believe, for a week after for the general admission tickets, which is great. So even if you can't make it on those particular times and nights, be sure to grab your virtual tickets because you can tune in later. And this is not only going to be covering real estate investing, but also how to maximize your 401k, how to choose mutual funds, what investing trends to follow, which ones to avoid. You do not

want to miss it. RamseySolutions.com slash events is the place to go. And I'll tell you, John, I was in a meeting with Dave late yesterday as the team worked on the content for this. It ended with Dave doing like beautiful mind math with charts and graphs to where our brains were just melting with these like real estate formulas. It was insane. So I'm excited to see this come to life. I remember it was a few years ago.

I'd only been working here for a few months and he called us all in the room. He's like, hey, I need to run something by you guys just in case you'll get a question on the show about how bond prices are sort of backdoor connected to interest rates. And we sat down, and he started talking, and I remember just the overarching thought I had was, oh, my gosh, this guy's really smart.

And I think we forget that, right? Because he just tells people to sell the truck and, you know, kind of does his day. Dude's a savant. He's so accessible on the air, but his,

his mind, it's a beautiful thing. Brilliant in a, in a impressive and terrifying way. So I love that he's doing these events. He did one earlier this year with just with a group of baby step millionaires as a private event. Like, here's how I've done life. They're like, what do I built all this wealth? What now? What do I do? How do I not ruin my kids? I love that he's doing this. He's kind of like opening up

his brain for us and saying like, Hey, here's, here's my playbook. Here's how the playbook that I've used in my home for this many years at a deep, deep dive. And it's, it's pretty impressive. So be sure to tune in along with the brain melting. You're going're going to leave with a lot of hope and confidence in your wealth building plan and some great questions to start working through with your spouse, with your financial advisor. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash events. Join us for Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials, May 21st and 22nd. Ana is in Dallas, Texas up next. Ana, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so nervous. Hey, it's just John and I. Ana, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm so nervous. Hey, it's just John and I. You're going to be fine. How can we help? Thank you. Yes, so I just, you know, started listening to YouTube Shorts,

and I found you guys about a couple days ago. Cool. And, yeah, I actually wanted to know, I work full-time at the moment, and I wanted to see, I took my LSAT, I got a really high score, and I was wondering if I should go to law school full-time or part-time and work full-time as well. High like 170, high like 165 and above, or high 155 and above. I got a 173. Wow, way to go. You're like a prodigy.

Congratulations. All right, so here's your goal. I don't think you're going to be able to work, and it's really, really, really discouraged for 1Ls. Most schools won't allow it. But with that score, I want you to find a law school where you will go for free. You should not pay for law school with a score that high.

They're lucky to have you. So I was wondering, my undergrad GPA was absolutely horrible. I didn't know the value of school. You got a 173, sweetheart. I'm telling you right now, any admissions person listening

to this would be like, uh, okay, okay, cool. Yeah, you might have to take some study skills courses, right? Because law school is really, really hard. I worked in law school for six years. It's really hard. It's amazing what those students can do. But with a 173, there's going to have people knocking on your door and they're going to want to talk to you about your undergrad GPA, but don't walk in the door already with your head hung low. Many of us did way better in grad school than we did in undergrad because we just got through undergrad, and then we realized, oh, man, life's important, right?

Yeah. I would love to go to one of the top schools because I know the ending salary will be high. However, I don't want to get into that $250,000 debt. Yes, agreed. But I want that. Yeah, but I want that. I don't know if I – it's probably not worth it is what you're saying, correct?

I'm telling you, if you were my daughter and she came home and said, Dad, I took the LSAT and I got a 173. I would love for her to go to law school. It's a trying, hard, hard experience. And they teach you how to think. They teach you a different way of seeing the world. It's amazing. And I would say, go to the best school you can go to for free.

Period. And yes, I would forego all the fancy... They won't give it to me for free. They will. They will. I would go to a second tier or third tier't give it to me for free. They will. I don't know if I'm crazy. They will. I would go to a second tier or third tier state school with that score for free.

Because here's what you're going to do. You're going to walk out with a JD. With a Juris Doctorate. A law degree. And if you want to go work big law and have 2,200 billable hours and not see your friends or family, yeah, you can get a big salary

right out of the gate. And I've done... My research was on lawyer mental health. It's not great. Or you can get a big salary right out of the gate and i've done my research was on lawyer mental health it's not great or you can get a job go serving folks and you can do any job in the world you want if you don't owe anybody any money you're gonna have options you're gonna be able to make decisions with peace instead of just rushing into the first paying thing that's right and you might go to law school and be like dude i love estate law or i really love um i want to i want to go be a a public defender i want to be a prosecutor like going to school with no debt allows you to

take follow your your guts where you want to go not like follow your dreams not like that follow like where you are pulled in law school will show you where you're pulled because you got to really commit to it so go in there and if you get into big contract law you want to do big law amazing go down that road the 173, that tells me you've got the computational power. You're going to have to learn some study skills. And you're going to have to really buckle down on this stuff. But, man, go get it. Go get it.

Go to the best school you can go to for free. You got a 173. You have a Willy Wonka ticket, my friend. And let's say that, you know, it is like either Yale or Stanford, the top at the moment, but they don't give me. Don't go. They give me a little bit. I'm just telling you what I would tell my sister or my daughter.

Don't go. Don't go. Okay. The Stanford law degree will look awesome, and you'll have some great networks, and you'll make some good money out the door. There's no question about that. Okay. And there's no way that I can probably work full time then, right? Absolutely. They would allow it. Okay. And there's no way that I can probably work full-time then, right?

Absolutely. They would all out. Yeah. I think many schools, if I remember correctly, the ABA had something to say about it. They may have shifted a little bit and changed somewhat, but no, for a full-time program, you got to be there. And once you get into it and realize what it is, you'll realize you can't work. I mean, you're reading hundreds and hundreds of pages a day and not just reading them, but you're reading them so that you can recite them in front of a professor the following day. It's a tough, tough slog. Are you in a good place financially right now? I would say so. I have about $65,000 in savings.

Oh, you're so far into the game. You're amazing. No debt? Actually, I have a $24,000 car loan, which I could pay off, but I haven't yet. I only paid 11K in cash. Today. I want to borrow a home. Today. I officially know you're smarter than that. I know your LSAT score. You're smarter than that. Pay it off today. Okay. Okay. And don't worry about other big goals like home ownership and all that. That will come later on. Right now, your one focus would be let's apply, let's do early applications, let's perfect the application, the personal statement, all of that stuff. Maybe consider those lower ranking schools in order to go debt free.

Okay. path you'll never call in with regret that you didn't go to the xyz school when you're the first one to graduate and all your peers are drowning in debt going what are you going to do i gotta go to work man i got 250 000 in loans and you know i get to choose let me tell you something great about the the the loan i mean the the law school ranking system uh george and i'm and i'm talking to you but george or on i'm talking to you but i'll tell this to george so they they were trying to figure out how important these things are and much of it is voting so they they actually mail stuff out to other professors and law school deans specific people and they say rank these schools and so it's a reputation score what do you think about these guys well they stuck i think it was penn in there penn state and it ranked very high like top 15 15, top 10, like law schools.

There was no law school. It didn't exist. It was simply a, oh, that's a pretty good school, man, yeah, and they wrote down. And so it tells you that the ranking system's very flawed, incredibly flawed. Would a Stanford law degree be good? There's no question about that. Anyone who tells you, no, it's a waste of your time, it's not. It'll be amazing.

And I know some students that have changed everything in their family tree, going to second and third and fourth year law schools, and they went and worked their butts off helping people in the community, and they've done amazing things. Love it. Great advice there. Thank you so much for the call, Ana. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books.

Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, all the guys and gals in the booth keeping the show afloat. And you, America, we'll be back before you know it. you