The Ramsey Show - App - I'm 16 and My Mom Is Asking Me for Money (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. And it's where America is hanging out to have a conversation about life and money. Sitting in for Dave Ramsey this hour, I'm Ken Coleman. I'm the best-selling author of The Proximity Principle, Ramsey Personality, and host of The Ken Coleman Show, part of the Ramsey Network. And I'm joined by my good pal, John Deloney. Dr. John Deloney. We can't forget that.

We can. We're good. Ramsey Personality. And last time I was co-hosting with Anthony O'Neill, he had been co-hosting with you the day before and accidentally called me Dr. Coleman, and I like the sound of it so much, but I'm not willing to do all the hard work that you've done. And so that doctor is something that we like to have fun with in the old personality area. That's right. Dr. D, we call you. It feels good until you dig in a little bit of my story and realize that my wife was Dr. Deloney before me, and then before us, my mom was Dr. Deloney.

And so I am behind two powerful, strong, brilliant women. And so I like John. You know, you're a very humble guy because I've been thinking about it. If I actually had a doctorate, I would, I think, unfortunately, be the guy that when I checked in at hotels, say your name, I think I would say, Dr. Coleman. That's right. Just to let them kind of run wild with their imagination as to what kind of doctor I am. So it's been my experience that you get to the end of whatever your internal degree process is, and you get to the end, and you realize this one horrifying realization.

There is so much out in the world that I will never know. Yes. And you handle it one of two ways. You default to this super hipster humility like, no, bro, just call me John. Or you go to your mom and you're like, from this point forward, I'm doctor. You make everybody. That's great. Your church, your pets, everybody's calling me doctor.

It's one of the two. I love it. Dr. John Deloney and I are here this hour for you. So it is the Dave Ramsey Show, which means we're talking life, we're talking money. Now, John, he specializes in relationships and mental health. So, hey, there are a lot of money problems surrounding those core issues. And then I help folks figure out their calling. What were you created to do and how do you contribute in your work? And, well, we know how work and money are related as well. So we're going to talk about it all. It's going to be a lot of fun, our first time together. Give us a call. Yeah, so right now, here's the number. Here's how you engage, 888-825-5225.

It's a free call, 888-825-5225. And we've got lines lighting up. Recy is going to start us all off in California. Recy, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling because, unfortunately, my family has been struggling with fighting over a home.

My grandparents passed away. My grandmother was the last one to go about two years ago, and she left her house to her four children. One of the siblings is currently living in the home, and she was there taking care of my grandparents and also another elderly relative for about seven years before they all passed. The rest of the three siblings wanted to sell the home. And let me say that this house has always been a source of contention. My grandparents immigrated here. They worked very, very hard to buy a home in San Francisco.

And, you know, but they did not retire inspired at all they were very bad with money towards the end of their life um and so the three siblings want to sell um one of the siblings does not and she's saying that um she like my grandfather did not want to sell this house um and the three siblings are actually suing her for living there. And so this has caused such a big trouble with our family. And it's spreading, you know, I guess unconsciously at some level to the cousins, because of course, we, you know, back up our own parents, and it's just kind of shifting our family dynamic. And I kind of want to know, you know, what would a good compromise be? I'm the eldest cousin and I kind of feel like, I don't know, I should do something

and hopefully they would listen. The question I have, Recy, is, and Dr. D, you jump in here, but I'm just curious, do you have a say in this? Because I understand that you have a relationship say, but do you have a say in the actual decision here with the siblings? I feel like people would listen to me. I feel like my mom is the executor of the will. I feel that, you know, because they're in constant mediation,

so the fact that they're still continuing mediation, I feel like they are. Do all four of the siblings, if I'm getting the math right, do all four have to agree, they have to be unanimous? No. The executor's going to make the call. So at the end of the day, the executor's got the final say, and it's your mom. And is your mom for selling the house? She is, but she's also open to having it rent out because we are in San Francisco, and we have a property in San Francisco.

So, Recy, here's the deal. You know what you can bring to your family that nobody else can? Common sense and peace. And I want to empower you and to implore you to get all your cousins together and get them all in a room and say, we're not taking sides. We're not doing this nonsense. We are not going to disparage the beautiful memory of our grandparents who immigrated here and created us out of dust by pissing and moaning over a home. Because this has nothing to do with a home. It has to do with people trying to honor and grieve and be sad. And I want some money and I am not budging and all of that stuff that's

wrapped up all of this and this isn't going to be solved with a math problem and I hate that it's already gone to court. You're right. And it's going to be end up, it's going to look on your mom. It's going to fall to your mom who's the executor and she's going to carry this guilt and this weight and all nobody's going to be about peace. And that's what you as the chief cousin, you're not going to be able to speak to what we're going to do with the house and you're not going to get any money out of this deal. You can help people rise above the nonsense, rise above all of the mess and not take sides and bring peace.

Recy, let me ask you this. Your mom is open to either side. There's one of her siblings wants to keep the house the other want to sell it and she's kind of 50 50 switzerland she'll do whatever is that what i'm understanding yes yeah you know then it's her decision it's her decision as the executor so i love everything you said i would just add one little nugget bring it and then i would just say to to your mom i'd say look this is your call right there's a reason you were chosen yep we don't want to get into that nastiness but the end of the day she's the child

that has the final decision yep and so in that situation do what's best for the family. And if your mom's fine either way, then you know what? Maybe the decision for peace, John, here is to, we're going to rent it. For now, stage one, we're going to rent it. We're not going to sell it. It makes one happy. The other might not be happy, but everybody gets a little piece of the action if they're going to split the revenue. Come up with a common-sense solution to peace is all I'm saying.

Got to have an idea that they can get everybody bought in on. That's right. So there you go. All right. Dr. John Deloney, Ken Coleman, sitting in this hour for Dave Ramsey. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Don't go anywhere. More coming right up. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention.

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with the promo code Dave to get $20 off your first pair of Shady Rays. Welcome back, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman, joined by Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney. And we are a part of the Ramsey Network. Thrilled to be with you as we take your calls on life, money, relationships, working on purpose. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

So super excited about the Ramsey Network app. Now, I don't know if you folks are like me. I know John and I both love podcasts when we're in the car, when we're on the tractor. What am I saying? I'm never on the tractor. I would love a tractor. You would love a tractor. I would love a tractor.

You know what I'm talking about? Just cutting grass for an hour and listening to podcasts. That's right. I love growing while I am sitting. And if you're like us, you're going to love the Ramsey Network app. It's brand new, and it's like a podcast player with all of our shows in one place. This is how you get better. Constantly learning intentionally and daily.

So we're talking about The Dave Ramsey Show, The Chris Hogan Show, The Ken Coleman Show, The Rachel Cruz Show, The Christy Wright Show, Entree Leadership, and the Borrowed Future podcast all in one place. You can browse by topic. You can save your favorite clips and share them with friends. So this is built for growth. Never again should you struggle to find the education and empowerment you need to improve your life. Download the Ramsey Network app today in the App Store. Just search for the Ramsey Network. I love it. It's fun.

All in one place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got to download it. I'm very excited about it. I've got to actually download it myself. That's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've got to eat what you're serving. Mowing and place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got to download it. I'm very excited about it. I've got to actually download it myself. That's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've got to eat what you're serving.

Mowing and growing. Yeah, I love that. That's a new thing. Isn't that funny? 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. Doc, I think somebody's in need of a breakthrough today. Somebody listening right now, they're a little nervous, and they need to call.

And I can tell you folks, John and I are going to take good care of you. Let today be the day. You trust us. We're going to take good care of you. Call right now. I just feel like somebody's listening right now and it's just,

it's building in their chest. Do it. And there it is. Do it. Just call. Triple eight, eight, two,

five, five, two, two, five. Well, Ben has called from Illinois. We're going to go to Ben.

Ben, how can we help? Hey, guys. Hope you're going to do well today. So my question is mostly for Ken. So me and my wife are currently on Babyset 2, and we're doing pretty good. The only concern right now is my wife and her job, she's not too comfortable right now there. And she's kind of thinking about either leaving her job or, you know, she kind of, she doesn't know if she should stay or leave.

She just doesn't like the toxic work environment, mostly from her boss, I guess. And we're doing pretty well. And I don't know if I should keep her working there till we finish baby step two, maybe even three, or should she consider getting a different job during baby step two maybe even three or should she consider getting a different job during baby step two yes i don't know what you guys ben listen uh this is a reasonable question because it's really scary at any time to make a transition change is scary

and certainly when you're gazelle intense like you and your wife are to walk dave's baby steps out and you're you're walking through it, you're almost out of debt and you're going, oh my gosh, an interruption in job could be devastating. Well, that's assuming that there's an interruption in income and we're not assuming that there's an interruption in income. She is in a toxic work environment. It's draining her and it's with her leader and it's probably a situation that's not going to change. Would you say that's true? Yeah, I would say that's true. Let me confirm, you know, she makes decent money there.

It's just I wouldn't want her to take a pay cut, but then like you said, you know. Well, but that's assuming that she will take a pay cut. And the reality is she's not in an abusive situation. She's not in danger. It's just sucking the life out of her because it's a very difficult boss and an ugly culture. But she could bite her lip and stick it out if she had to, but I don't think she has to. How much money does she make? She makes about $40,000.

$40,000? I make about, yeah, and I mean our household combined is about $130,000. Fantastic. Most of the money, but it does help with her income right now. Sure. We take the pay cut out, so it kind of slows down on the baby steps. But again, Ben, that's about the third time you mentioned pay cut. I would never tell you to take a pay cut right now,

but what I am telling you is she should start looking for a job that would replace the $40,000, and maybe she makes a little bit more. So we're going to set a baseline, and we're going to say our goal is to find you a job, babe, that you're making $40,000 or more. Now, that sounds good to you, doesn't it? Right. Okay. So here's the deal.

She starts looking. She's not committing. She's going to look. We're going to look really hard. I'm going to give you a copy of my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle, to help you and her find that gig. But until you find it and then she gets the offer and she's ready to go, then nothing changes. And so you can rest easy and she can rest easy that we're not looking at an interruption in income, nor are we necessarily looking at taking a pay cut. Okay. reality is is that over time that toxicity

will drive her out of that job so it's either now or later start looking now and then we find the replacement ben and then she walks triumphantly out of there she's she's as chris hogan says she drops it deuces i'm out i'm out and she goes to something else john and and ben are you hearing me for a second yeah i'm going to make a very gendered husband statement are you ready baby step two is a math problem for you and if you are worried about a toxic work environment and like ken says it's your wife's going to be a rock star she's going to figure it out and y'all going to work supportive together but i don't want you to forget that there may be something along the way that I like to call a soul tax

or a marriage tax that it may not come out in dollars and cents, but you will find your marriage have a gap in it over time because you keep cranking on this number and cranking on this number. And we're in baby step two, we're in baby step two. And this toxicity plus the obligation just begins to slowly bury the woman that you love. And so there is a point where being together and being united and being forward thinking can override a dollar amount. And so I want you to focus on connecting with your wife as much, if not more, than this numerical goal that you've got just pulsing through your mind like a bright neon sign, right? Yeah, that's good stuff.

Let's go next to Preston, who is on the line in Michigan. Preston, how can we help? Hello, Preston. Hello. It's good to speak to you guys today. How are you all? Great. How can we help today? So I am a junior in high school. I have a little part-time job at McDonald's that I do

three nights a week just to save up for school. However, my mother just kicked out her boyfriend and he was driving a car that was in her name and he left the car with us. And that being said, my mom wants me to step up, pay for the car payment, and pay for the insurance on top of me already paying for my own phone bill. I just need some assistance on how or some guidance on how I should handle this. First and foremost, Preston, are you in a safe situation? Yeah, it's safe. Maybe not totally emotionally, but yeah, for the most part it's safe. So you're well, no drug use in the house or anything like that?

No, sir. Okay. So here's the deal. I'm going to tell you the big rock star statement on my end which is i'm gonna keep the money that i make the other side of that is you're a 16 year old kid living in the home of your mom and you're beholden to your mom and if she needs some support or says hey we need to work through this and that this and that in some shape form or fashion you're a minor you live in her house and i don't like it i don't like the sound of what you're going through. It doesn't feel right

or natural to me at the same time you're 16 and you live in her house. I got to ask real quick, does she work, Preston? Yes, she's a nurse, but she does like a lot of in-home care. And so whenever a patient dies, it always takes her a little bit to get another client. But, yes, she works. How much is she asking you to contribute? Well, the car payment is $205 a month. And it's in her name. It's in her name, yes, sir. Yeah.

Well, I've got to tell you something. I don't like it. Are you telling him that he needs to help her with that? I'm telling him. No, he needs to. He needs to tell mom to grow up, and mom needs to go get a job at McDonald's or something else. That's exactly right.

But I also want him, I don't want to trap a 16-year-old in a toxic situation. Mom is mom. No, I don't think he should be paying. He should not be. Mom needs to go get extra work. Mom should not put a 16-year-old in that situation. But that's a messy situation. I agree.

Maybe he helps out one time. Mom, I'll do it for a little bit because I love you, but you're putting me in a messy situation. I agree. Maybe he helps out one time. Mom, I'll do it for a little bit because I love you but you're putting me in a tough situation. It's that hard conversation but that's a lopsided conversation there. I know. But you still got to do what's right.

Moms and dads, don't do that to your kids. Don't do that to your kids. All right, more Dave Ramsey Show coming right up. Thank you. Take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback. But thanks to Christian Healthcare Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers

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Welcome back, America. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I am Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman, joined joined by Ramsey personality Dr. John Deloney and we're thrilled to be here. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We're talking about life. Now Dr. Deloney focuses on mental health and relationships and I focus on meaningful work. Doing work you love. Chasing that dream job and getting there. But we're talking money, we're talking life. And I've got to tell you, during the break, if you held over, quick reset if you didn't. Young Preston was on the line, 16 years of age.

He works three nights a week at McDonald's. To make some money for school. To make money to save for college. This kid's a rock star. This kid's awesome. college kids are rock star the kids awesome and the situation that he called in with is that his mother uh had signed her name onto a car loan for a boyfriend who is no longer in the picture and his question was mom has asked me to help with the car payment i believe it was 250 bucks a month as i recall plus insurance Plus insurance. Right, plus insurance.

And, John, the situation is kind of tough. And tell folks what you told them, and then we're going to wrestle with this a little bit because this is a conversation for parents that are in a tough situation and how you involve your kids. John? So I think, again, as I told Preston, no. You don't pay your moms intellectually, right? you don't pay your mom's intellectually, right? You don't pay your mom's boyfriend's car note. You don't pay for your mom's bad decision when you're 16.

And you're 16 and you're a minor in the house. And moms and dads are going to ask you to do things like, hey, I need help with the bills. I need help with my bad decision. And if you're a 16-year-old, you're kind of stuck. The reality of the situation is if you're safe and, you know, Preston's safe, no drug abuse in the house, no physical abuse in the house, he's kind of between a rock and a hard place. Between should he? No. Is he going to have to? Yeah, he is.

And I think the broader question is parents what kind of situation are you in that you're having to ask your 16 year old for a couple of hundred bucks to patch together um patch together every month right i know i'm gonna tell you my position on this um and i i think i think the thing that you and i wanted to say is is we understand that we've got people listening in that are in tough situations and maybe your kid's 19 or 20 or whatever, maybe your kid's knocking down some good money as a 16, 17 year old and you're going, COVID put us in a tough situation

I think if in this situation he had called and he said look, my mom's a nurse and she got laid off and the bills are tight and she has asked me to help out with the bills my answer is absolutely instantly sign me up that's right she bore you she raised you i carried you for nine right that's right no i'm serious as i can be that's right absolutely help mom this is different mom brought a boyfriend into the house, which puts him in an interesting situation. Thankfully, he's safe, but he did admit to emotionally not feeling safe. And mom has put a burden on him that is a different kind of burden.

That's right. The first burden, I'm in. Second burden, wait a second. You, mom, made a really reckless decision financially that you now can't handle and the boyfriend's gone he's a deadbeat because if he was truly a man he wouldn't have had to ask for her to sign on to it he'd take care of his own business now he's gone so now Preston stuck with this situation and I think it creates a dangerous dangerous precedent and so all I was willing to say is help out mom once.

And if he's got now, here's what we don't know is if he has family in the area, I think he's got to prepare that mom's going to get really upset and she may really put pressure on him. And if I'm him, I'm doing everything I can to put a boundary up as painful as it will be to not create a situation where he feels chained to that for a long time. Now, that's my concern. Clinically, I don't know if that holds up, but I think that in the real world, this kid is in a really tough situation. There's no great answer. It's not like I've got the crystal clear answer, but I'm very concerned. As am I, and I think we can extrapolate this to a broader conversation about power and less than.

And so often folks like Preston find themselves in positions where they don't hold power. They don't hold the roof over their head, yet they're the ones being asked to clean it up and fix the problem. But would you agree that if Preston has family or friends in the area that if it would come to her saying you're out you're not helping i'm kicking you out i think and i don't mind if you disagree with this uh i think he takes that option it doesn't mean he leaves right now help her out one time put a boundary in place mom i'm gonna help you out in this tough season don't ever do this again don't ever ask me to jump in for dumb debt that you've put yourself in. I'm going to help out. And I don't mind if he does it a couple months,

good son, but he's got to have a boundary. And if she kicks him out, if he's got a place to go, then I feel like he can do that. Absolutely. Because I think parents can behave badly. Parents often behave badly. But I am uncomfortable often putting the impetus of fixing a problem or the person who should be building boundaries is the reality is he's 16. And I know that 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 16-year-old's held esteem, but Preston's a child. And I think we forget that as a society, we have said, you know what? 16-year-olds aren't wise enough to make decisions. 16-year-olds aren't wise enough to make decisions 16 year old

aren't certain decisions they're barely with training and with supervision we'll let them drive around the neighborhood in a car but we don't let them smoke cigarettes we don't let them buy guns and beer because their brains aren't fully developed they're still trying to learn how to connect they're still trying to make their way through this and what he's been just handed which millions of 16 year old 15 year, 14 year olds are all the time asked, you go be a grownup right now because the grownup in your house can't be. And this is a recipe for Preston feeling like he's got to take care of the people around him for the rest of his life. This is how codependency starts.

That's my concern. But this is my concern. If he essentially says, well, she's my mom and I'm a 16-year-old and she might try to kick me out, so I've got to do it. He's actually setting himself up for a really long-term problem that you just identified. Well, I don't want to change the conversation. He hasn't set himself up for anything. A grown-up whose job is to take care of him set him up. And he's a child. Okay, fair. But my point is if he agrees to pay him, set him up. And he's a child. Okay, fair. But my point is, if he agrees to pay it, he didn't have to pay her.

Maybe. That we know of, right? No, you're exactly right. Unless she has access to his bank account. Of course. There's all these things. That's right. But I always want to shift this conversation.

Number one, I want to honor Preston. What a stud. Yeah. Unbelievably strong young man. Number two, he's asking broad questions that I What a stud. Yeah, unbelievably strong young man. Number two, he's asking broad questions that I wish no 16-year-old had to ask, but the reality of the world we live in is they do. Number three, I want to shift the question away from him to the adults with kids in their lives,

and I want to say, man, like you mentioned, you've been dealing with millions of people out of work. You've been talking to person after person after person. This is a mess of a time. And I can't imagine having to sit in a room with my 16-year-old and say, hey, I need some help. And that's where you and I are absolutely fired up about this during the break. The reality is I wish I could get mom on the phone and go, mom, I understand you're an in-home nurse, and when a patient dies, you've got to wait for work.

No, ma'am. You get out there. You join the same staff your son's at. Flip burgers alongside of him. You go work. What you have done is absolutely ridiculous, and it irritates me. It makes me upset. To no end that she would put this on this young man.

Go out and get a freaking job. Right. Two, three. Get three of them. Right. But don't you put this on this young man. And by the way stop letting the boyfriends come into the house and live with you and then stop letting them talk you

in to being their sugar mama because you don't actually have any sugar she can't even afford it i mean am i right no you have to turn to your 16 year old son to help pay for your boyfriend there's one grown up in that house and it ain't mama it's pre. There's one grown-up in that house, and it ain't Mama. It's Preston. That's what I think. Yeah. And my hope and my prayer for Preston is you are seeking out wise counsel. You've got a gut feeling as a 16-year-old. You're already planning for tomorrow.

You've got a wiring that many, many 16-year-olds don't have, Preston. You're ahead of the game. I want you to never give up on asking for wise counsel. I want you to find people in your community some grown men that you can trust that you can lean on whether that's a teacher or a coach or family member and i want you to get connected to them on the regs yeah and listen don't be afraid to say hey my mom pushes me out over this would you take me in i'll work i'll i'll make my keep i'll take care of everything. Don't be afraid to ask for help. This is a real big moment. If there's any other youngster that's facing this,

you've got to make the long-term decision because it's going to be painful either way. You cannot make decisions for your mom and dad if they're putting you in a tough situation. Really good conversation. All right, 888-825-5225. We're going to continue to take your calls on life and money. Dr. John Deloney, Ken Coleman on The Dave Ramsey Show where we talk about your life, your money, your mental health, your relationships, your work. We talk about it all. I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, joined by fellow Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney. And, man, we're having some fun. Today's scripture verse, Hebrews 13, 16.

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Today's quote from Margaret Fuller. If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it. I like that. It takes me back to the their candles in it. I like that. It takes me back to the old Sunday school song. I love that quote. Hide it under a bushel. No, I'm going to let it shine for all you church kids out there.

Kelly is doing the signals. It all came back to her just like that behind the glass. So really, really fun. Okay, folks, 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Florida. Jenny joins us there. Jenny, how can we help? Hi, Ken, Dr. D. I'm a little bit nervous here. Oh, don't be. We got you. We've never lost a patient. Yay, that is good to know. I'm a graphic designer. I've been about 20 years, and I'm just not passionate about it anymore, and I'm looking to change careers.

What I would really like to be, I came up with a name for it, is called a professional volunteer. Wow, I like that. Now, let me ask you this. Does this professional volunteer make money? I assume so with the key word being professional. Oh, absolutely. They make a ton of money. Who do you want to help? Give me an idea where that is. I do sea turtle rescue.

Fantastic. I love going out there at night, pounding sand, rescuing the little sea turtles. But it's a volunteer position. I'm a scuba diver, and I do some coral counts and fish ID and all that kind of stuff. It's all stuff I'm really passionate about, but it doesn't pay anything. All right, let's stop there. Let's pause. All right? Okay. What if I paid you to do what you want to do starting monday morning you pick it i guarantee two things the money you need and that you can't fail oh this is fun jenny what do you

pick tell us when do i start mond Monday morning. Monday morning? Monday morning. Perfect. I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's go. Yeah, but you didn't tell me. What are you doing? Oh, we're doing sea turtle rescue at night, and we're scuba diving during the day, teaching people already scuba divers, you know, no scuba instruction,

but certified divers about the reef, the ecology, the environment. Okay, fantastic. How important it is. So listen, so Jenny, you have just gotten really clear. Really clear. Yes. That sounds like a dream job to you, correct? Yes.

Now the good news is you're in Florida. Are you in a coastal community where all that stuff is reasonably around you? Oh, yes. I assume so. So here's the deal. Let's start to do some more investigation. All right. The good news is, is you're in a stable career that you've been in for 20 years. So let's call that the day job. And you've just identified the dream job. But you need to do a little bit more homework, a little bit more research on, okay, what are the positions that I can actually get paid for that I feel like,

A, I would really enjoy, and I've got the raw talent, if not the sharpened skill to be able to do it. So no more of this, and I love your spirit, but no more of this professional volunteer stuff. We're straight up looking for positions that you would love to fill. Do you understand what I'm saying? And so I want you to come up with a list of three to five. I think you've really come up with a couple right there. And now we're going to look at what does it take

for me to get qualified? That's what you're asking yourself. All right. Now there's three questions to ask. What do I need to learn? That's acquiring knowledge. What experience do I need? So what do I need to do? What do I need to learn and do? Education and experience. How much is that education and experience going to cost me? There's a financial cost. There's some relationship cost, your time cost. And then once you get the answer to that second question, now we've got ourselves a plan. We know that in two or three years or 18 months or whatever, I'll be where I need to be to actually do what I want to do. And from there, once we're, once we know what we've got to do to get qualified,

you can begin to walk through stage three, which is get connected. And I want you to hang on the line right now. All right. And I want you to hang on the line. We're going to give you a copy of my bestselling book, The Proximity Principle, which simply says this. In order to do what Jenny wants to do, and you told us, work with sea turtles, work with divers, educate them on the reef. You got to be around people that are doing that and you already are that's right from a volunteer capacity so you've got the relationships you got to keep getting around those people get in places where that type of marine rescue marine conservation is happening and the more that she's in those areas john she's meeting more of the right people and that that's where opportunity pops up. Oh, Jenny,

well, this would be a great job for you. This is going to open up in six months. Do you have this qualification? Go do this certification over a six week period. Boom. So that's what she needs to do to actually make the switch. And Jenny, here's the key. We're not going to jump off of a big, tall platform into the pool. All right. We're going to get the job ready, even if it's a part-time move, add that part-time job to your day job responsibilities, and all of a sudden you make a seamless walk right into the new career. Love it. That's how that works. All right, let's go to Chelsea, who is on the line in Colorado.

Chelsea, how can we help? Hi. I think it's really great that I got to talk with both of you because both of you will hopefully be able to answer my question. Perfect. So I have two disabilities. I'm blind and I have a couple mental health conditions. And Ken, I've been reading a bit of your site the last couple weeks, and I just wanted to know if you had any advice regarding the implicit bias and illegal, but still very prevalent discrimination, just because I've listened to what Dave has said, and sometimes he's like,

oh, you know, you'll never be at work for six months. So I've been out of full-time work for about a year. And unemployment just ran out. Do you find, Chelsea, that most of the biases is your lack of sight? Or is there also some mental health stuff that when you disclose, that causes an issue as well? I don't know because the mental health stuff is relatively new, but the blindness definitely plays a role in some of the jobs that I've been trying to look at. Yeah, so here's the deal. This is not an easy answer. There's not just one crystal clear answer, but I think there's something you've got to do,

and you've got to do the research, and you're very capable to do this. And I would really lean into your community, other folks that are working that have the disability of being blind, and I'd find out what they're doing. And I would do as much research as possible because it's out there on these are jobs that folks that are blind have been very effective at doing. And I think that that's what you've got to do because here's what happens, Chelsea. If you do your research and the market shows that, hey, my lack of sight isn't even a disability. See, that's what you've got to, you've got to kind of have that going for you so that when you walk into it,

yes, that bias is going to be there. But when you have the data on your side and all of this comes out and maybe you've got some connections where, hey, I can do this kind of work and you own this. And I'm going to tell you, John, I don't like the word disability. I like differently abled. Yes. Because she's really, really able. And listen, Chelsea, I've worked with students with learning challenges. I've worked with professionals. I served on boards of working with folks, helping them get work and helping them have equal access.

So I believe in you and I trust you. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to not own other people's responses to you. You are a person of value. You're a stud. You're going to make it happen. You're going to do what Ken said. He's right on.

You're going to do the research. You may get connected to one of your disability rights organizations there in Colorado. I know they've got a powerful, strong group there that can help support you. If people are illegally treating you, if they are violating your rights, that's one section. The most important section on the other side, right?

So you've got the legal side over here. But it's critical to who you are in your heart. And you can walk into any situation and think, I'm less than, or they're going to treat me less than, or they're going to act differently around me. No, ma'am. You are Chelsea. Chelsea from Colorado.

Yes. And you're going to walk in and you're going to say, I've earned this job. I can do this job, and I'm going to prove it. And I'm not going to put my thoughts into other people's heads. I'm not going to prejudge fear. I'm going to go get it. That's right. You got it, Chelsea.

That's right. And by the way, own it. That's right. You know? Hey, I'm going to go get it. You got it, Chelsea. And by the way, own it. Hey, I'm blind! But it doesn't have any effect on my talent. I can outperform anybody around me. It makes me actually really stronger in other areas. You got this, Chelsea. Well, John, thanks so much

for being with me. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer, Kelly Daniel, and most of all, you, America, thank you. You are why we get to do the show. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere

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