The Ramsey Show - App - I'm 29 and Want To Move Out of My Mom's House (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from their dollar car rental studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your money, and your work. I'm John Deloney, joined here with best-selling author and national sensation Ken Coleman. Oh, wow. You're a sensation now, by the way. James, can we cut that? I'd like to play that clip on my phone when I walk into the house tonight to the three teens.

Ladies and gentlemen, national sensation. Just so you'll know. In fact, I'd like you all to start calling me. Not dad, but sensational. National sensation. National sensation. 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls on life, on money, on anything that's going on.

We're here. Ken, how are you, man? Well, I'll tell you what. I am living the dream, man. We get to do what we love. We get to help people, and we get to do it with fun people. And we're having a blast today, you and I. We always have a good time.

I like it. James is in a good mood, so that's always good. James Childs, everybody knows his name, but they don't understand. He can be really tough. Quiet guy, very tough. Today he's smiling. He's a wonderful, wonderful person. He's a wonderful man.

Wonderful man. So everybody's in a good mood. We're here for you folks. We're excited, and we've had a good show. Good show. Yes. So we are taking your calls, 888-825-5225. Anything you've got going on in your life, give us a shout.

Life, work, purpose, relationships, money, we're here. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Boston and talk to Frank. What's up, Frank? How are we doing, man? Good. How are you doing? Outstanding.

What's up? How can we help? I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm 60, and I'm burned out of the 40-hour work week. I want to cut down. And I don't know, you know, I'm trying to find something that's less hours. Right now I have a job, and I'm trying to work with them to go on a four-day work week, but it might be tough.

I'm not sure. And I have a bad commute. But I was thinking of doing it one more year and just quitting and taking a year off and figuring out what I want to do. I want to keep working, but less. That's great. Yeah, well, Frank, that's really good news. I'm assuming here that this idea of taking a year off and figuring out what you want to do

means that you're in a good financial situation, that you're not in debt and that you don't have any kind of financial pressure. Is that a correct assumption? Yes. That's great. Listen, we don't need to take a year. I think we take the next four or five minutes and figure it out, because I just believe a guy like you who's 60 years old,

who's at a place of being burned out, I just know that your brain and your heart have been throwing signals up, and they may have actually connected, but you're not quite sure how to get there. Maybe you've got some fear. Maybe you've got some doubt. I just don't believe you called today with zero ideas of what you would do. Am I right, Frank? You're right. I knew it. So, Frank, let's just be real. All right. Frank from Boston. No nonsense, man. Throw it out there.

What would you do tomorrow if you knew you couldn't fail and it was going to be the hours that you wanted in the twilight of your work career? What would you do, Frank? I know you've thought about it. What would you do? I think I would – well, up in Maine they have those three-day flea markets. I think I would sell junk. I love doing that. I love doing that. I love setting up.

Dude, you're a stud, Frank. Frank, I got to tell you something. You never want to stereotype anybody, but that's in the range of what I thought you might say. Didn't you? No. You didn't think so? I thought he was going to say, you know what?

No, he likes stuff. I want to open up an orphanage. I thought it was going to be... Really? Yeah. Frank, you just became a hero of mine. He loves junk. Frank, to open up an orphanage. I thought it was going to be... Really? Yeah. Frank, you just became a hero of mine. He loves junk. Frank, why do you love junk?

I like vintage electronics. I work in high tech, and I'm burned out of high tech, but I like it as a hobby. Yeah. You love the idea of fixing stuff up that still has some value. Right. I don't know how much money I could really make, but I've also thought about there's actually an amusement park there. I would do that part-time.

I'd do a few different things. Listen, I could love this. Frank, listen to me. Frank, what's keeping you from doing that? My family is kind of, you know, I'd have to move away. I'd be alone. I'd be isolated. I'd kind of be far away. And that's the problem. Right now my job is like a cash cow, and I'd like to, you know,

keep to stay there for as long as I can. And then. All right, so hold on. Hold on. Let's address that issue. Okay, because I think that is the big thing. By the way, I respect that. I think that's a legitimate hurdle.

But I think that that takes into account an assumption that's false. And that assumption is that Maine, that particular part of Maine, which I think you really like, is the only place that you can do that type of work in this twilight. You can do that stuff in Boston. I mean, Boston, if you're in the greater Boston metropolitan area, there's got to be some theme parks around there. There's got to be plenty of flea markets and stuff like that

and areas where you can do that kind of work. True or false? It's true. It's seasonal, though, so I have to do something in the winter also. Yeah, but Frank. Well, there's indoor ones too. Yeah, man. And the other side of that is,

at what point are you going to put your oxygen mask on first? Yeah. What's that? At some point, you've got to put on your oxygen mask, man, or this burnout is going to, you're going to slowly drown, and the story you will have told yourself as you go underwater is, man, look what I did for everybody else.

Well, here's the deal. Frank, you're already burned out. Your words, your words, not mine. So John's absolutely right. What do you mean if I put your mask on? You know, on the airplane instructions, they say if the cabin loses oxygen, the mask drop from the ceiling, they always tell you to put yours on first. So I understand you want to be near family, but how far away from family would you be?

A couple of hours. Really not that far, but my family, 20 minutes is a long time. Well, but wait a second. Wait a second. John's on to something. That sounds like a them problem, brother. It sounds like you're using your family as an excuse to not go do what you want to do. You're totally using your family as an excuse.

You're scared. Big old tough Frank is scared. Come on, Frank from Boston. Yeah, he's scared. Who are you worried about? Who's this family? Is it sisters, brothers? What is it?

Yeah, all of them and brother, sister. My mother's getting old, so. Again, Frank, and brother, sister. My mother's getting old. Again, Frank, two hours, man. That's a grocery store run in Texas. The way you drive, that's 90 minutes. Come on, Frank. I know you drive fast. Two to four hours, something like that. Hey, dude, you've got to live your life.

You've got to live your life. I know. Hey, but the real thing behind this, Frank, underneath all this, if your family only wants you around for your money, they're taking your soul from you. Okay? And if you work like crazy so that other people, your brothers and sisters, will be quote-unquote proud of you

or you're the one who did it, Man, you're living a fake false life. I'd go to Maine and Frank, I'd get an awesome little cabin and tell the brothers and sisters to throw mama in the car two weekends out of the month and let's have some lobster. That's right. They can drive too, Frank. Clip chatter. Hey, you worked really hard to put yourself in this position. Go enjoy your life, Frank.

Go sell junk. That sounds awesome. It's awesome. Frank, do what really hard to put yourself in this position. Go enjoy your life, Frank. Go sell junk. That sounds awesome. It's awesome. Frank, do what you want to do. You've earned it. You're 60, man. Life is short. Get after it.

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When you budget and get intentional with your money, you will make progress fast. And you can start budgeting for free today. Text TRIAL to 33789 for a free trial of Ramsey Plus. That's TRIAL to 33789. All right, let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Alex. Hey, Alex, what's going on? Hello? Hey, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Good, what's up? Thank you. Okay, well, so yeah, I have a situation here at home.

I'm living at home. I live with my mother and her boyfriend, and I'm having problems with them at home. It's not a good situation. I've been having fights with them. How old are you? I'm 29. Yeah, move out yesterday. Yes.

Yeah, that's what I was... Why are you still living there? Well, because I was living in Washington. I was living on my own, but things happened. We don't do vague and cryptic on this show. What things happened? There's a reason why you're living there.

Why are you living there? Well, because I didn't do well in Washington. I made a lot of mistakes, and I had to move out from my apartment. They were evicting me. And so I came back, and I had problems with my father. I was living with him for a while. And then I came with my mother because when COVID hit, they kicked me out. So hold on, hold on, hold on.

So you're living there because financially you can't live on your own? I suppose I can, but it would be like in a room or like a garage converted. Okay. Alex, do you have addiction issues? No. Okay. So there's something that is following you around that happens to be you. What are you bringing to all these situations that are making it hard for people to live with you? I don't know. I suppose. Alex, people have told you, man.

Okay, so you get angry? You get frustrated? I get upset with them, man. Okay, so you get angry, you get frustrated? I get upset with them, yeah. Okay. Have you ever sat down and talked to somebody about it before? Not really. I never thought that it was something that I wanted to or I should have needed to do.

So what I would tell you is just if you step back and look at the data that life has presented you I'm telling you that getting angry getting frustrated results in for whatever reason your response to different situations whether it's in Washington, whether it's with your dad now it's with your mom and her boyfriend you are the common denominator there and I'm not going to beat you up for that but I want you to say I can continue to go to place to place to place and be the common denominator there. And I'm not going to beat you up for that, but I want you to say, I can continue to go to place to place to place and be the common denominator.

Or I have reached a point where I need to go talk to somebody, preferably a professional, to get some insight into what tools am I not bringing to these situations? Or what am I contributing to my continued inability to get along with the people that we live with right so that's not why you called but i do think you are worth getting to the bottom of those questions okay but get out get out what's keeping you from getting out is it a good paying job is it the fact that you could live in a converted garage or a one room deal with somebody else and you just don't want that or you can move to kansas garage or a one-room deal with somebody else, and you just don't want that. Or you can move to Kansas and rent a three-bedroom apartment.

Why are you stuck there? Yeah. Well, I guess because I want to say it's my home. You know, my family is an immigrant origin family. Yeah. Ever since I can remember, like literally ever since I can remember, it was from one house to another, from that house to another, from one apartment to another. And we finally landed here. And it sucks because, you know, this is where I have a lot of my memory since I was 11 years old.

And I don't know. It's hard for me because I'm going to miss it. This is where I've had a lot of my memory. Yeah, I get that. And I don't want in any way to minimize that. But you called us saying, hey, I'm 29 years old. I'm living with my mom and her boyfriend, and we're fighting, and I want to get out. And we're telling you, get out.

And the way to get out is, one, we've got to have the financial means to do so. I think you have the financial means to get out. I understand it's going to hurt, but you can come back and visit. And I would suggest to you that if you take John's advice and you begin to get some help and get healthy, we can visit. We can come back. And we can still hang out in that house and have a better relationship with mom in a place of wonderful memories. But you're 29.

You need to live your own life. And so it's time to move on. And I understand it's not going to be perfect, a converted garage or whatever. I understand. But here's the deal. It's progress. And if you decide to move out and you go this is just a stepping stone for me and and i'm going to take that that desire to not be a tumbleweed

as my life is presented to me i've had to move from place to place to place that's made me feel very unstable and all the things all that stuff i mean my heart breaks for you on that and i think that's real but you can decide to say i'm going to change the pattern. It stops with me, but it starts by me getting out of the house, getting healthy, and creating my own path. How does that sound, Alex? That sounds great. That's really what I want to do. I really want to become not only just financially, but in life stable. I do want to enjoy life in all aspects. Good for you. I do have more than just one goal.

Yes. And I can't do it in this space, in this situation. Love is very negative. That's right. It's very negative. That's right. My question was, though, is that I do want to learn a trade because I think with learning a trade, I don't know if I'm wrong or right, but I have better means of financial... Absolutely right.

Alex, what trade are you most interested in? Well, I was thinking in carpentry. Fantastic. Are you talented with your hands? You've always been kind of, even if it's an undeveloped skill, but you're pretty good at building things, fixing things, putting things together. You got that talent, yes or no? I like doing that.

I didn't ask you if you like it. I said, do you have some talent at it? Are you good at it? I'm a guy who can barely hammer a nail. All right? This is full confession here. I'm a disaster. No talent.

My brother, guy could build stuff out of a piling. He's unbelievable. Do you have the talent, Alex? Can you build stuff? Do you have that construction, that carpentry-type talent? Alex? Yeah, I guess not. I don't know.

What do you mean you don't know? You do know. If I talked to people who know you, would they say, Alex has always been pretty good at his hands. He was just always natural, knows how to use a saw. He can fix a little thing. He can do some trim. Come on.

Yes or no? Do you have the raw talent? Yes or no? Yes. All right then then there we go then pursue that trade that's all i wanted to know it wasn't a trick question i just want to make sure you're not delusional i want to make sure you got that talent because you got the raw talent john i can develop the skill hey listen go sign up for trade school here's the thing why don't you drive around a couple construction sites in la and walk up and go hey my name is alex i'm here to work

i've held down a great job this is who i am i'm responsible i got my driver's license i want to learn the trade i'll start doing anything i'll just start shooting three quarter inch plywood up to the second floor i'll be a laborer that's what i did john in one of my sophomore not one of my my sophomore summer in college they need laborers get in get on the work site and the next thing you know they're going to hand you a hammer they're going to teach you how to do it. That's right. They're going to teach you how to do it. Come on, Alex.

Take control of your future, man. And listen, Alex. When you are a part of an immigrant family, when you move from house to house to house to house to house, that being untethered, that frustration, that anger, and you're not by yourself. Go see somebody. Yeah. Go talk to somebody and say, hey, I need to learn some skills. Okay?

You're worth it. Your family's worth it. And your future legacy is worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here with Ken Coleman, and we're taking your calls on pretty much everything. Life, relationships, work, purpose, money, all of it. 888-825-5225.

Let's go out to Tina in Atlanta. What's up, Tina? How we doing? Sorry, I'm T-N-O-N. Oh, T-N-O-N. Sorry about that, brother. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

T-N-O-N. Thanks for taking my call. You got it, brother. What's up? Thanks, Ken and Dr. Delaney, for doing all that you do. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. So what's up, man?

Yes, sir. So I've been working for this company for about 12 years. Okay. I am in the medical field. So I've been working with my supervisor for the past 10 years. And our relationship grew as a coworker. Now he's my supervisor. And we've been working well in the beginning.

However, as time went by, as recently as about a year ago, the organization has grew and the responsibilities for me has grown as well. And my supervisor basically started to really disrespect me, although my skill level has gone up. In fact, I'm one of the few employees there who understand and knows the system inside and out and all the things that we do there. So I'm having to teach junior personnel and as well as involved in a lot of decision making process. However, a constant undermining from my supervisor as well as a disrespecting has gotten to a point where I'm considering going part-time. Because instead of arguing trying to change the person, I don't believe

the person will change. I was thinking about going part-time so I can gain some of my sanity back. Multiple times I spoke with him about his behaviors and he acknowledged it and he said he would change in his own ways. But I just, and he said he would change in his own ways,

but I just don't know whether he will. No, he's not going to. There's no chance. And you're absolutely right, Tinan, to say, hey, this is a problem. You've done everything that I would ask you to do. You answered all my questions, except for why are you considering going part-time instead of just leaving all together explain what's behind that thought so um what i'm promised recently is that um uh promise for promotion in the in the department and also um by who So – By who? Who promised you a promotion? Well, he has.

Our timeout. Come on, man. I mean, really? I can't even believe you just threw that at me. Let me ask you. Do you think he's going to promote you? No, I question that. All right.

So let's not waste any more time. I'll answer that. You question it, I'll answer it. No. No, he's not going to. So, again, why part-time as opposed to just saying the season is over, I've got a lot of talent, I've got a lot of experience, and I'm out. Bye.

That was John. John has a wonderful singing voice. Why? Why part-time? Why? Right. So financially, we're pretty secure. Wife and I, we do pretty well.

The money is not an issue. In fact, we followed Ramsey steps, and we are now completely debt-free except mortgage. Okay, I get it. That's awesome. You're avoiding my question. Why is part-time an option? Why not just leave?

You're answering a purpose question with a dollar amount. Yeah. Gotcha. I enjoy people there. I enjoy my doctors that I work with. Great. And it's not, it's a great place, except this immediate supervisor has been the, it's pretty

heavyweight on my career. Is there a, you've done the right thing ethically which is to go to the person that you're struggling with and say here's what i'm struggling with about you and they've they've acknowledged i'm failing you and i will do better and then they have repeatedly not done better is there another person to then go to well there's a supervisor above him which i believe is just is going to be a moot point because that supervisor is going to be uh relying on him to manage the department that my immediate supervisor is in charge of yeah so there doesn't seem like there's a fix so here

here's what this boils down to and i'm not trying to i'm not trying to be unkind i'm not trying to paint you in a corner but brother you have two options you either put up with this and it's going to eventually eat away at you and suck your soul out of your body and i would suggest that it's starting to which is why you called today or you walk away but the part-time option isn't an option that's just delaying the inevitable. So you have two options. So here's the deal. If you want to be eventually miserable there,

then keep doing what you're doing. And then do the part-time version. Because all it's going to mean is, you're part-time miserable. But you have to choose. I understand you've got relationships there. I get that. You're a wonderful dude.

You've got a great heart. It's obvious. But all those kind people and all the nice things in the world isn't going to change the fact of what I just said. And it's going to happen. You will resent. You will get miserable. And then you're going to leave. And then you're going to be unhealthy.

I think right now you're kind of starting to see, and you've put up with it for a year. How much longer do you want to put up with it? Right. I know I'm right. So what are you going to do? You're scared. You're terrified. As responsible as it is.

Well, starting in any new organization, it's just that no one wants that. Okay, so here's the deal. It's one of the most stressful things. Moving, all that. Yeah, it is, except for the fact that right now, you're basically saying to me, Ken, I think I'd rather be miserable than uncomfortable. I'd rather take half of my salary and go part-time instead of making 50 grand

or 100 grand. I'd rather just make half. T-Nod, listen to me. You just said I'd rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Does that make any sense to you? Doesn't. All right, I'm turning you over to my colleague

who's the professional psychologist. Now that I've diagnosed it, I'm not able to fix it. Other than what I told you to do, you need to leave. And you're very qualified. I'm sorry, I'm preaching for 20 more seconds.

No, you're good, man. T-Nod, listen to me. You're qualified, man. You're good at what you do. You've got preaching for 20 more seconds. T-Non, listen to me. You're qualified, man. You're good at what you do. You've got a tremendous amount of value. You live in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the top metropolitan areas in the United States. A little bit of uncomfortableness is just part of growth,

but you better choose growth or misery. Those are your choices. What are you going to choose, man? My wife thinks that I am thinking about all the excuses staying because I'm afraid of making changes. That's what I just said!

Yeah. Get your wife on the phone. Can we patch her in, please? I'm kidding. She's right, by the way. Your wife is right. Your wife is almost always right. One more thing that I want to tell you guys so you can have an insight on this. I know I'm kidding. I didn't use that word. Yeah, I know. She's right, by the way. Your wife is right. Your wife is almost always right. One more thing that I wanted to tell you guys so you can have an insight on this. I know I'm taking a lot of time, but basically my supervisor, his role, I mean, he basically had moved up in the organization because of the work that I've done for him.

Things were built on my back, so to speak. And I know that, and he knows that. That's why he had pulled me away from different departments. Every time he moved up, he brought me in. And I realized that I was the guy who was making things a lot easier for him.

Here's what we're going to give you. I'm going to give you a small to medium-sized golf clap. Congratulations. You're an incredible worker. You are brilliant. You are valued by an organization. This guy doesn't even respect you or like you,

and he's still going to promote you because he knows how good you are. And you don't believe in your own value. You let a guy that is running over you and stealing from you, intellectually and spiritually, dictate your life. Your wife is sick of it. Ken Coleman talked to you for four minutes and he is the career expert. Oh, by the way, I'm sick

of it as well. He can't even breathe. It took two minutes for me to get sick of it. Listen, you're allowing yourself to be abused. That's exactly right. You are worth more than this. Yeah. Here's what I want you to do.

I want you to sit down with your wife tonight, tonight, and I want you to say, honey, I'm done. And now we're going to start painting a new picture of what tomorrow's going to look like. And then let her speak into it because she's been dying to speak into it for a long, long time. And then you're going to be about this weekend, next weekend, you're going to be about making your move. Because it's time. And yes, it's going to be stressful. Then you're going to find peace that you haven't had in years and years and years. You got this, T-Nan. You got this.

You got it. Solving problems on the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. today's scripture is psalm 37 23 through 24 the lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him though he may stumble he will not fall for the Lord upholds him with his hand. Jim Rohn says, If you are not willing to risk the usual, you will have to settle for the ordinary. If you are not willing to risk the usual, you will have to settle for the ordinary. Way to go, Jim. All right, let's go out to Lawrencerence in tacoma washington hey lawrence

what's going on hey guys how are you guys doing outstanding how are you man pretty good hey i just uh i want to say thanks for the for what you guys both do uh john i was listening to your podcast and i appreciate all your sound effects thank you i i'm looking at james right now who clearly does not and i need you to know lawrence you made my day and i appreciate it no problem heavy heavy point of tension there between those guys and you just made it more tense so that's great nope you just you just you just uh moved the the teeter-totter a little bit in my way so thank you got you some more points that's good so what's up, man? So, yeah.

So my question is just to give a little context. I was actually listening to you guys on Tuesday. I think it was Ken and Dave that were on. And we're talking about how hot like the market is for used cars. So we owe about $14,500 on my wife's car. And so I was thinking, I was like, Oh, okay. Well, I heard you guys say that. So I reached out to, um, to the person that we, the dealership that we bought the car from set up an appointment that actually having about 20 minutes or so for an appraisal. But what they're saying is that they could potentially buy the car back for what we paid for, which was about $21,000. And I'm hoping that if they buy it back for at least $20,000, that I could use that amount to purchase a minivan, because we're looking at getting a minivan, and maybe have a small amount of debt after that instead of the $14,500.

I'm just wondering if you think that's a good idea. Ken, I wasn't on that hour. My first inclination is when a dealer says, I'll pay you this for something, they already have a markup in mind, which tells me you would make more money on the private market. But I wasn't on that segment. Yeah. Well, the bottom line is that right now dealers are paying premium money for used cars because there's so much demand. But John's absolutely right.

So, Lawrence, what I would do is I would go do Kelly Blue Book and be really, really honest, and you can kind of get a sense for what that private sale would look like, to John's point. So I did. Okay, good. What did you see? What was the number? About $19,500, I think.

Great. I'd hold on to that number. Listen, that's great. So we've got $19,500 in our pocket if you sell it yourself. All right? And let's see what the dealer says. Because if the dealer says $20,000 or $21, 21, I'm telling to the dealer now, like instantly. I'll Uber home.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. Because you don't know what you're going to get in the private market. If the dealer offers you 20, I'd take it so fast their head would spin. I really would. Or ask them if they'll trade you a minivan straight up. Well, but here's what I was going to challenge you on. You're not going to like this. Okay. Trade you a minivan straight up. Well, but here's what I was going to challenge you on. You're not going to like this. Okay.

Trade you a minivan straight up? That was my Dumb and Dumber reference, man. Yeah, I don't know if I like that strategy. Take the money because you're going to pay off the car. Right. The debt's gone. And you're going to have, let's say they offer you a 20, you're going to have 5 1⁄2 left.

I'd try to find an older minivan. I would try to pay the whole thing off and I'd try to find an older minivan. I would try to pay the whole thing off, and I'd try to find a $5,000 minivan that'll work for six months or a year and then save up. I'd knock the whole debt out if it were me. That's exactly what I would do. I wouldn't pay partial. I'd knock the whole thing out.

Did I hear you right? That's the only debt you have left? We have her student loan that's going to be I think after some payments that we can get snowball this month will be under $3,000, so we're pretty close. That's why I was really excited about

the possibility. Listen to me. Close to being debt free. Clear it all out. If we had enough time left on the air, I would stay on the line. We would do the first time ever. We'd have the dealer come on and we'd accept the deal for you. That's what I would do. I would take the deal. Take the deal and listen, go find something that's affordable for

$5,000. Not affordable, that's functional for $5,000. And I'm telling you, you can find it. Yes, and then be done with it, man. Be debt-free, be done with it. Knock the student loan out and now we can just pile away at that emergency fund and then we're buying a nice minivan in 6 to 10, 12 months, Max. Yes, or two years.

No one's going to die. You're going to be all right. That is true. You know what I mean? All right, let's take one more call. Let's go to Nick in Medford. Hey, Nick, what's going on, man? We're right up against the clock, so what's your question?

Hey, Dr. D and Ken, how are you guys doing? Outstanding, man man what's up so i'm in the i'm in the counseling profession and i love what i do it's i'm passionate about my line of work but i hear often how this line of work does not make a lot of money and i feel i'm really grateful at the position i'm in right now, but I'm also looking ahead and I'm curious as to what, what people do I need to be around or what are some steps I can take to make anywhere between a hundred to 150,000. I remember in grad school,

they had a private practitioner come in that was doing really well and everyone was talking Kumbaya stuff and how you can help people, and I agree with all that. But I raised my hand, and I was in a community, and I said, I don't want to be crass, but how do I make six figures as a counselor in this community? And he said, you're not going to like my answer. I said, well, what is it? And he said, be really, really good at counseling and work really, really hard. Develop a good reputation. And so here's what I would do.

I have personally called and met with, taken to coffee, taken to lunch, people who own their own practice. Multiple therapists work for them. I've got a friend who's – it's a husband and wife team in Texas, and they have multiple therapists that work for them, multiple interns that work for them. They pay them really well. And I know people who do consulting with businesses on the side, who have a practice and also are professors. There's a hundred different ways to go about it, but it's about you.

It's Ken's proximity principle. It's about you reaching out to any and everybody in Medford, Oregon that will possibly go to coffee with you and asking them every question you got. But at the end of the day, right now, counselors are doing remarkably well in certain areas, of course, because they can put their practice online.

They can meet with people now at 6 in the morning, at 6 at night. They can meet the clients in different places and locations. Cash pay is ruling the day. So there's a hundred different options here. Really, it's you figuring out what you want to do, what you're good at. Another great way to make money as a therapist is running groups because everybody can bring a little bit less money in. You can help out more people in your community, but you make more money per hour. So there's a bunch of different options there. Does any of those sound right to you?

Yeah. No, thank you so much. Yeah, Nick, listen, we're going to give you a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle, which literally is, it's chapter by chapter. It's going to walk you through what John just said, who you're connecting with, what you're asking. You've just got to learn to be a human sponge and say, hey, I want to learn this. Here's why I want to learn it. I think you can help me.

People find tremendous value in that when you value their advice. So don't be intimidated by this. John's absolutely right. And beyond just getting the advice, you're going to clarify and verify some things. You're going to clarify all the different paths. Like John just said, this group therapy. I mean, you could run two or three of those a night. That's right.

You get 10 dudes in a room. You start doing the numbers on that. I mean, and again, John's absolutely right here, and I'm not the counselor, but I'll tell you this. The people that are really, really good at what they do, people walk out of those counseling sessions and they go, you've got to go see this guy. You've got to go see this gal. You've got to go see this gal. And he was expensive. She was expensive. She rocked my world.

She changed my life. And so that's how their rates get up there. And I'm just making these up as round numbers, but if you're charging $100 an hour right now, the only way you're going to get to $200 an hour or $300 an hour is unbelievable results. So your mentor, that was a great answer. You're not going to like it because this is hard work.

This is not just hard work, excellent work. You got to dig. You got to take people to a place of health. You got to be really good at it. And here's the thing about working in mental health. You may realize, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do what it takes to make that kind of money in this profession because it's hard, right?

That's a good point. Hey, I want to thank James Childs and Kelly Daniel for another great show. I love you guys. Y'all are great. Love you too, man. Ken. I love you guys too. It's always fun.

I love you too. Appreciate you guys. Everybody. Engineers too. Thank y'all. Be kind to one another. Respect each other. And we'll see you soon.

This has been The Ramsey show. Hey guys, this is James, senior producer for the Ramsey show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to the Ramsey show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramseyshow.com.