The Ramsey Show - App - I'm $500K in Debt and Don't Know Where to Start (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

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Thank you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Christy Wright, author of the new book, Take Back Your Time, The Guilt-Free Guide to Life Balance. And I'm joined today by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show,

author of the best-selling book, Redefining Anxiety. And we are here for you. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls about money as always. But you want to talk about relationships, you have a relationship question, you have a question about time management.. But you want to talk about relationships. You have a relationship question. You have a question about time management.

Or work or business or all of it. Yeah. A boss that you just can't handle anymore. And let's be honest. They're all related anyway. They're all related. All the time. You don't have a work life and a home life.

All your different areas of your life affect each other. Work affects home. Home affects work. Your relationships affect your money. It goes in all directions. And so we'd love to talk to you, give you some advice, talk through it with you, help you see your options. 888-825-5225. John, one of the things that I think is really fun here as a team, Ramsey Solutions, and

especially in the busy fall season, I feel like we're kind of coming to the end of the fall in the busy season. We're always planning ahead. So I'm curious, what are you working on? What are you excited about? What are you thinking for next year? What kind of things have you got coming up? Well, I was going to tell you, man.

Well, first I want to say I haven't gotten to tell you congratulations on being number one bestseller, dude. Thanks. That hit the big old numero uno, man. Yeah, that was fun. Thank you. So I turned in my manuscript for a big book. When does this come out?

I know it's not like public. It comes out in April. April, okay. Yeah, and so we're excited and starting the whole, getting ready to get that ball rolling downhill now. So does it launch

for pre-sale in April? In February. Okay, gotcha. But it will be kind of the flag in the sand on how to change your life and man,

just the nonsense about relationships and mental health and all of it that we've been just sold a bill of goods, man. And here's how to get it back. How was this process different for you than writing Redefining Anxiety? Redefining Anxiety was more like a grad school paper. I mean, for me, it was like this was more of something I've been working on for about 10 years and just happened to be here.

Yes. And there's a team of people that help make sure I can get a little pop off the mouth a little bit. And they'll say, what does that actually mean? And I'll say, I don't really know. And so there's a refining process here, which is great. And there's editors here. So the book will be much shorter than what I submitted, which is good because I talk too much. But I'm looking forward to it.

Did you know that when I turned in the manuscript for Business Boutique – well, let me start over. When I wrote Business Boutique, our team – I was a new author, and our team really didn't know if I would have enough words. Oh, yes. We have plenty. We can all laugh about that now in hindsight. So my instruction was to write until – and I quote, the cows come home. Write until the cows come home. Just keep writing. They were so concerned I wouldn't meet my word count. The minimum word count that they needed was 60 or 70,000 words. I turned in 110,000 words.

Oh, yes. Yes. Fun fact for those of you guys that have read Business Boutique, the reason it is the size that it is, is to spread out all the words to make it physically larger so it wouldn't be a tomb of thickness. That's exactly right. That's basically what I turned in a lot, too. Yeah. Luckily, we have a good editing team. It's a fun process, though.

You put your heart and soul into that, and I know it's going to help a lot of people. about one of the, way back in the day when he was doing just Financial Peace University that he had written his first book and it was clear and simple and the woman who spoke the words over him that have just stuck in his heart for years, finally a finance book I can understand. And that was the echo through this whole writing process for me

which is finally a mental health and relationships book that I can actually understand. That's right. That 99.9% of people can actually pick up. And it's not 800 pages. And it's not full of all of this complex neuroscience. That stuff's important. And I geek out on that. What I found is my friends don't.

And what they do is they just stop reading. Yeah, they give up. And this stuff's too important now. We're all frazzled and cooked and burned, and we've got to make some changes. That is such a complex – I mean, I'm sorry. That's such a gift to take complex ideas and put them in simple language that people can understand. I'm reading a lot of books right now in seminary, and the ones that I can actually understand I'm so grateful for versus the people that just try to write to sound like smarty pants. I'm like, okay, you're super smart.

Now I need a dictionary to look up every other word i get how smart you are could you please explain it in a way that a human can understand that's how they talk like when they're at the movies yeah and um my daughter said something the other day she used a word there was 111 syllables and my wife and i looked at each other's like we're raising nerds and she's like yeah it's because that's what we are john like so it's the way people talk but it's not helpful yeah to the to most people this time so it's anyway i'm excited to get it out there and congratulations on your book oh that's gonna be so good all right let's go to detroit with don hey don how are you good in yourselves good what's going on? I consider myself baby step four. Do you consider yourself or you actually are?

Well, I consider myself baby step seven, but I am not mathematically there, but it's fun to think about it. I have all my debt paid. I have a six monthmonth emergency fund. But I have not been able to put 15% towards investment because my ELP, we both came to agree and said I was house poor. So I sold the house and moved into an apartment. So I will always have an apartment rent. So I want to try to increase my investments because for 26 years they were frozen. And in addition, I don't know how much to set aside for medical. I usually have seven to 10, sometimes $12,000 a year in medical fees for payments. So you're just saying from a

budget standpoint, how to set aside the money for your medical expenses? Yeah. Great. Well, I mean, it sounds like, the good part is, it sounds like this is not a huge mystery. You've got a range. Even the range you just gave me, $7,000 to $12,000. I know that's a, you know, you got some $5,000 in a range there, but at least gives you something to work with. And the good news is that, let's say, for example, you set aside $10,000 and you budgeted that out as, you that let's say, for example, you set aside $10,000 and you budgeted that out as whatever roughly you wanted to do on a monthly basis. And your medical bills next year in 2022 came in at $15,000. You have an emergency fund for that reason. If there's something above and beyond what you expected or anticipated or budgeted for,

especially when we're talking about medical here, that is exactly what that's for. So I think you're in a better position than you might feel like, Dawn, for having that money there. And do you have a health savings account that you can keep this money in? Yes, I do now. I do not have. Yeah, that's an important vehicle for you because it will be there in the years when you only have $5,000 and it will grow. So the years you have the $10,000 or the $12,000, it will roll over year after year, which is fantastic.

What's your health challenges that are ongoing at that cost? I have autoimmune connective tissue disease with central nervous system. That's painful, painful, painful, huh? At times, but just recently I'm in early stages of heart failure. Oh, I'm so sorry, Dawn. So sorry. We'll be thinking about and praying about it, praying for you. But yeah, just be intentional about those costs and put that money away.

It's hard, hard money to put away. Do it every month. Put it into HSA and we'll roll over for you. And we'll be praying for you. You've done a good job so far, Don. You're doing great. This is The Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family.

While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Trusted Provider. Last 18 months have been a lot. A lot of worry, a lot of wondering what would happen next, and maybe that's how you feel about your money too. Tired, stuck, stretched thin. But it doesn't have to be that way.

You just need a plan. Because a plan gives you confidence even when everything else seems out of control. And that plan is Financial Peace University. This class will teach you everything you need to know to save money, pay off debt, and build wealth for the future. You can stream the lessons on your own or get support by going through the class with others. Then you'll put that plan into practice with the premium version of our EveryDollar

budgeting app. By syncing your bank to your budget, you can easily track your spending and see where your money goes. You get all this only with a Ramsey Plus membership. You don't have to stay exhausted and overwhelmed. You can win with money. To start your free trial of Ramsey Plus, text TRIAL to 33789. That's TRIAL to 33789. All right, today's Blinds.com question of the day. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more.

Use promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. Rules and restrictions apply. Today's question comes from Trina in California. Trina says, She's constantly looking at bigger homes for sale in our town. And when we tell her we're not moving, she begs us to let her move in with her best friend or grandparents so she can have a room of her own. Are we being selfish because we chose a smaller house that we can afford? My therapist suggested we consider moving into a bigger house with a 30-year mortgage just to give her that space for the next three years. And then downsize again when she is on her own. So to answer your question here, are we being selfish because we are living in a home the size of which we can afford? The answer

is no. Good for you. I think we have a culture, Christy, where people buy gigantic cars they can't afford and gigantic homes they can't afford. So everyone's got a bathroom, everyone's got a room, everyone's got a yard, everyone's got a pony and whatever. So no, you're not being selfish if you're living in a smaller house that you can afford. If you try to, if you, the reality is you live in a smaller home and you have a lot of people, people are sharing rooms, then you have to be hyper-intentional about connectivity, about roles, about who is not, here's the rules of our house, but here's why you matter here. And kids feel a desperate need for connection and they feel a desperate need for purpose. And if you just plop a 12-year-old

in a 15-year-old's room and say, y'all figure it out. Yeah, dude, we're not going to figure that out. So the easiest thing here is to run, is to punt this down the road. Let's take on another couple hundred thousand dollars in mortgage debt so that we can, what I'm telling you is this won't solve the problem, right? You won't solve the problem. You'll have a 15 year old who disappears for three years and then moves out. You will not have healed or supported or helped your daughter. You may have quieted the chaos for a minute. My guess is you won't. When kids have anxiety, when they've got insomnia,

when they've got OCD, when they've got ADHD, I always want parents, and this is myself included here, understand most of the time your kids' bodies aren't broken or disordered. That anxiety, that insomnia, that is your body saying, I'm not safe, there's something your body saying, I'm not safe. There's something going on here where I'm not okay. It's not because there's somebody sharing my room with me most of the time.

It is something bigger than that. So I want to look at those challenges not as things to run from, but as let's get in and try to figure out what your body's trying to tell you here. And those are hard and those are messy. And I'll tell you if your therapist is telling you, yeah, you know what

you should um do put your family at risk in a situation financially that you can't afford to placate a 15 year old you may need to get a new therapist right that's a that's a tough situation they put you in what do you think yeah i i guess it just for me one of the hardest parts about this it's not just about the house or about the money i totally agree with you obviously you Obviously, you need to live in a house you can afford and figure out what's really going on that's probably not the room. I think one of the hard things, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, when it comes to parenting, and I still consider myself pretty new at this because my oldest is six. So I have been in the parenting game for six years. I just have three kids under age six. The hard thing is when they have different needs um not just that they're wired different

they have different personalities but they have different needs um it feels unfair to have different expectations of them like that i would expect of carter that he behaves differently than my middle son conley gotcha not just because their age but because of their capacity right and so how do you handle that where as the mom as the parent as the dad you're going okay i've got four kids one has some things that she struggles with and so and so how do you accommodate that and make that child feel safe while also not making it quote unquote unfair or whatever with the other kids in the household where it's like okay we don't want to walk on eggshells around this child because we don't want to ignore these children.

And do you see what I'm saying? That's a great question. I don't feel like I'm asking it well. No, you're asking it perfectly. But there's other kids involved in this equation. And how do you help everybody when their needs are different and their struggles are different? So the demon of mental health challenges or more specifically, the demon of everybody's body reacts differently to things.

Some people respond to chaos by getting really loud. Some kids respond to chaos by trying to disappear, become as small as possible. The challenge here is you can't see it. And what I mean by that is my son is 11 and he's humongous. I will ask him to go grab that thing for me while I'm in the middle of cooking something. Because he's tall and he can go get that. I won't ask my five-year-old little girl. She's very short.

I'm not going to ask her to do that. That's beyond her capacity. Similarly, I want all my kids to get in the car and go to Target with me right now. Even though she's exhausted, he's been running a track meet and he played a baseball game. And so I tend to moralize and and make

issues of character things i can't see and so every kid's got different needs and it may be that for a 15 year old who is brain is saying we're not okay right now i can't even go to sleep at night because i'm scared something's not right that tells me there's chaos in that home that tells me there's third rails in that home and that that tells me that, hey, you know what I really love? I love our whole family getting together for dinner. That might be the only hour of the day that my 15-year-old has time to herself. And so for this season, I'm going to concede that. But you're going to go on a walk with one of us, with mom or dad.

And that means, mom or dad, we're not going to be able to watch our favorite show every night of the week. Or we're going to have to put our phones down and fill in the blank, right? It's about reexamining the entire picture. But no, I think you're exactly right. As a parent, I want all my kids

to do what I say and in the way I say it because I have this picture of going to the hardware store today. I just got to know that, man, she's got to go to sleep right now. And he has asked, can I just have some time

by myself? And I'm not going to do that to him. And sometimes those are issues of character. We're all going to store. And so when we're going, I need you to be respectful. Most of the time, that is something that's exceeding their capacity. And as a parent, I've got to change my picture of what that's going to look like.

Yeah, I think that's so powerful and something we have to practice on a regular basis. You let go of this picture of how you thought it was going to be. And one of the things I learned from David Thomas, who has written multiple books, and I've had him on the Christy Wright Show. He's so smart. But he talks about, be okay with letting go of that picture for this season.

It doesn't mean forever. But maybe in this season, we're going to let this child off the hook, and they're not going to have family dinners. And they're going to eat in their room or eat on their own because they just need some peace and quiet to themselves in this season. But see, as a parent, you think like, we're never going to eat as a family again.

It becomes these extremes. In this season, you can let go of your expectations. And the way that David Thomas said it, which I love how he talked about this, he said, for a better outcome. You can force it

and everyone's miserable and anxious and not sleeping. Or you can say, okay, what is needed? Maybe we divide up. Sometimes Matt and I will split up the kids, even though I want everybody together, but we'll split them up for a better outcome.

Saturday, you're going to take two. I'm going to take one or vice versa. And I just love that. It's a hard step to take to say, I'm going to let go of what I wanted things to be. But if it's for a better outcome, then it's amazing because it really is that act of love of saying this is going to lead to better results for everybody. Yeah. So think this guides me.

If I get to a conversation with my wife and I win and she loses, we both lose. That's right. When I get into a pissing match with my kids and I win and they lose, we all lost. And so the goal is how can I even when I have to make hard decisions, hold my kids accountable, get them to do things they didn't want to do, it's because of this outcome. And they've got to know where we're headed here. And I've got to be flexible in that season. Yeah, that's good. Being willing to let go of that.

That's good. That was a good question. Great question. But I'm glad we talked about it because I know a lot of people probably can relate to being in something similar. This is The Ramsey Show. Imagine a world where people never have to worry about money ever again. At Ramsey Solutions, our mission is to teach people how to get out of debt, build lasting wealth, and be outrageously generous. And that means we have to take on the toxic money culture that says you need debt to get

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Text CAREERS to 33789. Or if you want to learn about our other job offerings, we'd love to talk with you. Text CAREERS to 33789. Listen, do not let your valuable time pass you by. Your time is like your money. Once it's gone, it's gone. And if you try to balance it all, you can feel overwhelmed. And at times you end up pushing your goals and yourself to the sidelines. Putting your plans on paper is the key to accomplishing anything in life. And I've got just the thing to help you do that. My 2022 goal planner is here. And here's the thing. You need to get these before they sell out

because trust me, they sell out every single year. And by the way, they sell out earlier every year. People love this planner so much because it really helps you focus on what's important to you. Your spirit, mind, body, relationships, and resources. We've got monthly, weekly, and daily calendar sections that you love.

But there's also monthly teaching. You've got content every single month, like reading a book on a particular theme to help you grow in that area of your life. Then you've got action plans, which are tools and templates to help you put that teaching into practice. You've got guided journaling

to help you reflect on these things. And even month in review so that you're reflecting on the last month before you dive into your goals for the next month. It is incredibly strategic to help you stick with your goals and even assess them and reassess them throughout the year as your life and seasons change because we know that they will. If you're ready to crush your New Year's goals, whether it's spiritual growth, personal life, money, or work, or anything, this planner will help you get there. So get your 2022 goal planner

today in our online store at ramsaysolutions.com. And I promise you when they sell out their or anything, this planner will help you get there. So get your 2022 goal planner today in our online store at ramseysolutions.com. And I promise you, when they sell out, they're gone. No, we won't reorder. I'm sorry, they're dated. And so once they're gone, they're gone. If you wanna get this as a Christmas gift, go ahead and get it.

The feedback has been awesome. The reviews are awesome. And people love using them. It not only helps you plan your year, it helps you put on paper on purpose what you want your year to look like, which is a powerful step in actually making that happen. That's ramsaysolutions.com. You can get your 2022 goal planner today. Okay, let me ask you this. All right. I need some help. Okay. This is me coming clean on the Ramsey show. This should be good. Just in front of a couple million people. This should be good.

So one of the things I struggle with most in the world, on 95% of my days, I have a note card with me that just have, here's what I've got to do today. I'm going to make sure I do today well. I had a conversation this weekend. I'm working with a new doctor, and we went over everything from genetic testing to everything. This guy knows me real well.

He's like, you have a problem with sweets, don't you? I was like, oh my gosh, did you know that? He knows everything. Are you reading my mind? No, he's just reading my DNA. I struggle with setting up a plan like this, the day-to-day linking

to a series of outcomes that I'm looking forward to down the road, whether it's a month in advance, two months in advance, four months in advance. My philosophy has always been, I'm just going to make sure I work out today and tomorrow takes care of itself. And the older I'm getting, the more I realize that's not always true. It will, I'll end up somewhere, but it's often far from where I, the picture I had in my head of where I could have been.

So how, this thing, I don't know much about journals. I've bought a few in the past and they've got like 11 ribbons in them and they're supposed to go this back and forth. This thing sells out. Whenever they announce it to our staff, it's like Dave's just throwing cash at people. It's like people are screaming like, ah!

It's like a Metallica concert when they announce the planners are out. out what is the magic sauce number one that makes this planner so good and number two give me coach me okay forget the first question we all know it's good help me um what would you tell somebody who struggles with connecting the dots long term because the reality is i'm kind of just stumbled through life does that make sense yes yes i think you're being i think you're being a little either humble or underestimating how much hard work you've actually done that has led to you no i've done a ton of hard work being right here you didn't just wake up here no i've done a ton of hard work but it's all like, let's have a good Tuesday.

I need a tip or two that's going to help me get from A to B. Okay. To link my daily practice with goals. So let me tell you one of the things that I think is the magic of the planner. And it's not a personality style. So one of the things that many women experience and this one this book this planner is not just for women though it's highly feminine looking it has hot pink on it so probably most men are not going to buy it but it's a great gift for their wife but

here's what i think is magical about it so many women feel this responsibility either spoken or unspoken to be cruise director of the universe. They are orchestrating all the pieces of all the people all the time. That's a lot to manage. So this planner helps you manage that. But here's the power of it. It helps you consider yourself in that game. It helps you consider yourself in your week.

It helps you consider yourself in your day. Like, how are you taking care of yourself this week? What are you doing towards your goals this week? What are you doing towards your goals this week? What do you want your week to look like? And it's not a selfish message of like, ah, bulldoze everybody or else, you know, it's not that. It's just like, hey, in the grand scheme of the 400 things you've got to do, why don't we consider ourselves? How can you grow and take care of your mind? How can you grow in your faith? How can you take care of your body? You know, journal questions for reflection, just the simple practice of pausing and saying hey how do i feel about that or how am i doing today

before i pile on the pressure of my to-do list whether it's in a planner or on sticky note or a napkin yeah so many people all i think all people do this but i i work with a lot of women so a lot of my my products are directed at women um they wake up they pour the coffee and they just run as hard as they can. And they collapse. And they collapse. And they never even consider, how am I doing?

What are my priorities for the day? We just react to the world around us. And I think that there's something very powerful in getting in the rhythm where you consider yourself in your own life. Such a simple concept, but we don't do it. The reverse engineering of that

for those who are singularly focused on their life is where do you plug into the world around you right if you've got kids at home how are you participating in their life if you have a spouse at home how are you participating in his or her life right how are you making your household um a better place a more hospitable place, a safer, quieter, whatever place? So it's the opposite of that, but it's still the same. Well, and there's just certain – while balance looks different for everyone and goals look different for everyone and even how you plan. If you're a planner on your phone or planner or paper, everybody's different. That's totally fine.

But there – and I write about this in my book, but there are certain ingredients to living a balanced life. There are certain ingredients that are good to have in your life, regardless of who you are, male or female, any personality style. It doesn't matter what kind of planner you are. Having time alone, having key relationships. So even in the weekly planner of the 2020 Gold Planner, there's this about what am I doing for myself this week? What am I doing for my family this week? And what am I doing for my dream this week? Your dream could be your career or a project or a hobby or your business. So it's just remembering, hey, these are things that each week, not every day, we're not going to do them all every day,

but each week, hey, if I haven't done anything to take care of myself in a week, we need to check on that. Self-care is not a pedicure or a spa day once a year on Christmas or your birthday. This is like brushing your teeth. It's a daily practice. How are you taking care of yourself on a regular basis? And so it's just those reminders of what am I grateful for? It just gets you in rhythms of paying attention to these different ingredients that create a balanced life. It's not all perfect and it's not a formula, but man, when you have a tool in front of you

that just reminds you of what's important to you, it helps you actually pay attention to it, spend time on it. So knowing, Christy. And not miss it. Because you're telling me I have to be intentional and make choices. So cool. I like your napkin or your sticky note system, though. I think that works great.

Yeah, but it provides for a really rudderless life. It's fun. But as my wife reminds me, there's a whole team of people cleaning up the world behind you, John, as you just are like, ah, what if we try this? You know what I mean? Or, ah, that sounds fun. I'm going to the gym. It's like, well, cool.

I will make sure the kids have food. So it's exactly the opposite of what some focus on, which my life's about everybody else, and I am silent and invisible in this life versus the other side of it and again it's a balance of yeah of both having both in your life well I think the key that I think people need to remember is the tools that we create for you all whether that is the every dollar budget every dollar budgeting app or um Ramsey plus where you get your course to take your financial peace university classes or John's book on redefining anxiety or the 2022 goal planner.

These are tools to help you be the person you want to be, to create the life that you want to lead, to help you do what you say you want to do. The tool in itself is not valuable. Those planners sitting in the warehouse, it's not valuable. It's when you use that to do what's important to you, to spend your time on what's important to you, to think about what do I want this year to look like?

What do I want this month to look like? What do I want my budget to look like? How do I want to get out of debt? You know, the plan is the path for you to get to where you want to be. That's the reason people get out of debt and it works. So it's just, it's the tool. But you're the one that makes it work. That means I got to do it.

I see what you're saying here. This is The Ramsey Show. Romans 15.4 says, For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. Romans 15.4 Martin Luther King Jr. said, Intelligence plus character, that is the goal of true education.

All right, we're going to go to New Haven, Connecticut with Miguel. Hey, Miguel, how are you? Good, thank you. How are you? Great. What's going on? Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

So I am about to be 37 years old, and I'm finding myself in a pretty overwhelming situation. I've got about $500,000 in debt that has accumulated. It's a mix of IRS debt, student loans, credit cards, and auto loans. And I'm making $87,000 a year on my income and about $1,750 a month on disability. So I'm finding myself in a situation now where it's all kind of falling on my lap. I just put together my very first budget at 36 years old using the EveryDollar app, and I'm coming up short. I'm not really sure where to go from here. So I looked into bankruptcy, Chapter 7, Chapter 13, and I got off the phone with a law agency earlier today. They said that I would probably qualify for Chapter 13, but my income, I guess, is of looking for some guidance, looking to see what my best option would be, where I could get some free advice, if there's any, see where to go from here. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

I can hear that in your voice, man. Are you married, have kids? Yeah, it's a little overwhelming. Yeah. So I have one child. I'm divorced. And I've been through two separations, which have, you know, they've kind of led me to this situation financially. So, yeah, I've got a little bit on my plate. Yeah. What do you do for a living? I am a nurse practitioner. Okay.

Awesome. If I decide to go outside of the VA, I will make more money, but in the end, I'll lose retirement benefits and free health care for life, everything that comes with being a federal employee. So that's another question, whether I should continue to work at the VA and bank on those benefits or seek employment elsewhere and try to make as much money as fast as I can. So what I would tell you is you're drowning, right? And you know that, right? Yes. Here's the analogy that might not be perfect, but the analogy you just gave me is I want to stay in the water because I've got this life raft here

versus I'm going to start swimming to shore and I'm going to get out of the water completely. And what feels safe long-term, eventually, if you will, may ultimately sink you because you don't have enough money here. This makes me happy that you're in a one-year program, okay, because you're going to at least double your salary, and absolutely you're going to get out of the VA and go out to the open market and work and you're going to be able to be a nurse practitioner man you're gonna be able to make a great salary and you're gonna have to just start slowly grinding this thing away and you feel like you're 100 years old you're not you're absolutely not um what uh you said you're you got

disability what's your disability from? Are you a veteran? I am. It's from my time overseas. Awesome. So you've got disability on top of your 87? Correct. Yes. So total gross income is 108. Okay. All right. Great. So the chances of you coming out of here and getting 160 or 170, what's that? What's, what's the feasibility in your market? Uh, I mean, if I were to take travel contracts, like a local tenant position, I can probably get that. They would be, you know, multiple short-term contracts,

which I've done as an RN, make ends meet with the COVID crisis. There you go. So I'd probably do the same thing as a nurse practitioner. So what I want you to step back and look and say, okay, 37, I'm going to be 38 when I'm out of this program here. If I put myself on a four and a half or five-year plan and I worked backwards, what kind of contracts would I have to take over the four and a half to five years? And will you be tired?

Abso-freaking-lutely, you're going to be exhausted. But what would it look like to pay this debt off, settle some of this with the IRS if you can, settle some of this with your credit card company if you can. You can't settle those student loans. Those are just weights you're going to have to tread water with. What would it look like? What would I have to earn to be able to reverse engineer this?

And my guess is at $150,000, $160,000, $175,000, this becomes a lot more surmountable if you've got a plan. You're experiencing, Chris, you can begin with this. You're experiencing, Miguel, with so many folks, and whether it's $500,000 or $50,000, is that initial shock when you see a budget and you think, oh no, this is forever. And I want you to know it's not. But it's a matter of these baby steps as you walk and walk and walk. And you've got to pacify with the feds, and you're going to have to let that go. And you're going to have to work like you thought you were busy when you were younger in the service. You're going to have to work like you haven't worked.

But, man, at that level, you've got a big shovel. You'll be able to dig out of this quicker than you think. And the key to this is while you're making good money and you've put in the work to do this residency and all those things, it's going to be really tempting to be like, well, I deserve X, Y, Z. You've got to live on nothing. The more you live on nothing, rice and beans, beans and rice, I mean, you get creative with every possible thing that you can to keep your expenses to an absolute minimum for a season. The more you can live on nothing and get that income up, like we're talking about, the faster

you're out of debt. And so you absolutely can do this. And one of the things that I want to make sure that we give you, Miguel, if you'll stay on the line, I'll have Kelly give you a membership, a year membership to Ramsey Plus, which it has our class in there called Financial Peace University. And you watch these lessons

and here's what's going to be so key. It's not only going to show you how to get out of debt, it's going to keep you motivated on the journey. There's an incredible community in there as well. And you can connect with those people. You can get inspiration, get encouragement, get teaching. You'll also have that budgeting app that we're talking about, which will sync with your bank.

So watch those lessons and do exactly like John said. We've got to get the income up to be able to get out of this mess. But you can do it. And once you can see the plan, then you'll see how you can do it. So can I tell you this, Miguel? We just had a couple in a previous hour on today's show do a debt-free screen. And they paid off $500,000. Oh, man. And what'd they say? They got after it in five years?

Yes, and right after he was diagnosed. He was diagnosed with a- Parkinson's. Parkinson's. And so I'm going to tell you, I just had somebody stand in front of us on the debt-free stage, and they did it. Okay? Here's another thing I want you to remember. Tell me about your little one. She's nine years old. Nine years old.

She loves to dance. She loves to sing. That's awesome. So listen to me. This stops with you. Because in five years, you said she's nine years old? She's nine, yeah. Nine years old, right?

In five years, she's going to be 14, and she's going to have a debt-free dad who walks about seven inches taller than he is right now, and she's going to have a ringside seat to sacrifice, to hard work, to, hey, we don't have the money to go to Disneyland, so we're going camping. We're going to, sorry, we're going camping. We're going to, sorry, we're going fishing. We're going to figure this stuff out.

We're going to hang out with Uncle So-and-So and Aunt So-and-So, and they live in this crazy town. And she's going to have a ringside seat to adventure and sacrifice, and she's going to get to watch her family tree change while she's in it. And it's because your sacrifice is not going to go unnoticed. So brother, you're about to change

your family tree and your daughter's never going to experience this and your why goes way past this scary moment right now. Your legacy, her legacy,

and her kid's legacy, brother. So congratulations. And you call us back when you're debt free and you're going to do that debt free scream on this stage with us.

And we're going to celebrate you because you're going to do it. And I can't wait to watch you do it. It's going to be awesome. Thanks for calling, Miguel. All right. I want to thank producer James Child, associate producer Kelly Daniel, my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, and you, America, for listening in. This has been fun. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register.

We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.