The Ramsey Show - App - I'm 86-Year-Old and Broke (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call us and we will help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Jane is kicking us off in Boston, Massachusetts. Jane, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you. How's it going? How can we help? So I was trying to help my husband about, I guess, a year and a half ago, September 2023, basically. I asked if I could borrow from his 401k so that I could, you know, invest in flips and flip them and then help pay down the mortgage so he could

retire earlier. The first house did not sell and I was nearing the end of the loan, a hard money loan. So I had to refinance. We refinanced that. So now we're stuck with that house, but the renter is paying for that. It's covering the expenses. I did it again with the hopes of, you know, the same goal. And now I'm stuck with a house that is nearing its maturity for the hard money loan to be paid. So I'm trying to figure out whether I should refinance and go, cause I'm going to,

I'm going to suffer a loss. I can't sell this for some reason. It's the interest rates in the area that we're in. So I don't know if I should sell it at a loss or refinance it into a hard, I mean, to a conventional loan again, so that I can pay back the hard money lender and just keep the house and rent it for a while to recoup my money back and try to resell it later. I think we got a sunk cost fallacy here and you keep digging yourself into a hole and you touch the hot stove and then you did it again. And so I think we need to get out of the real estate game entirely. I don't know that I would, what's the loss on this that you would take? It would be at least 12,000.

Okay. I'm getting out. Do you guys have this money? Do we have it? Do you have any money in the bank? We have about, let's see, for like an emergency fund like nine thousand and one okay and then and another in like the business account that's like maybe four or five thousand and that and then he has a little more left in his 401k

like 49 let's stop robbing the 401k how much have you taken out 40 40 000 and that was a straight up withdrawal yeah so you paid upwards of what 35 percent in taxes and penalties actually it wasn't even yes yes yes that's exactly what happened plenty of you knew that but yeah no it's not it's that's just what happens when you take it out before 59 and a half that's why we tell people not to. He's actually 68. He was 68 when he took it out, but he was trying to put it back in, a little back in, and they said he couldn't put it back in because he was over a certain age, if that makes sense. Yeah, it doesn't work like that, where you can just put the money back in. And so you took a withdrawal out of that of 40 grand,

which robbed you of all the compound growth that could have happened along with that amount. And so now you're out that money. You sold one of the houses. You got out of that flip, right? I didn't sell. We were renting it. We couldn't sell it because of the area that the interest rate is higher than the- So how many properties do you have? We have the main one we live in, the one that I was trying to help pay down so you could retire. And then the one that we tried to flip the first one. And now that's a conventional loan and we're renting that. And then we have this one now that we're trying to figure out what to do.

I mean, I don't know whether to. So three total. So one is being rented and one you can't sell right now. And you're thinking about doing the same thing. How long has it been on the market? The first one. How long have you. Tell us more about the efforts. Okay. So the, the, the real estate person, um, I, I'm,

I'm not sure if he knows a lot about the economic area. I mean, about the area, but who is this person? Is this a trusted real estate agent that you're working with? Well, yeah. I mean, she was referred to me through, um, an agency that I worked with. Well, yeah. I mean, she was referred to me through an agency that I work with. I don't know if I should mention names, but yeah. When you get off the phone, I want you to go onto ramseysolutions.com and I want you to get hooked up with one of our real estate trusted pros, because whoever it is should know the economics of the area. And I don't know, like, what did you put the house on the market? And after 30 days, if it sell you pulled it like tell me more because when was the hard money loan due on the first on the first house you're asking me on the first house it was on the market for um I say

maybe almost four months four months and we didn't get yeah we didn't get any offers at all was it priced right at all supposedly it was priced right you know i mean she supposedly what area of boston is this no this is in birmingham alabama okay what you're buying real estate across the country yeah both rentals are in birmingham say that again are both of these properties in birmingham yes what made you go we're going to purchase property thousands of miles away and hope for the best? Someone on YouTube. Oh, goodness gracious. You said that they- Unsubscribe. And yeah, and then they, you know, the properties were just cheaper. It was just easier to get into

the market. I mean, you could buy a house. I mean, I think I like paid like 47 in cash for it. So what'd you buy the house for and what are you trying to sell them? Let's talk about flip number one. What'd you buy it for and what are you trying to sell it for? Because something tells me it's not priced right. House number one. Um, I think we, I pay 64, five. Okay. Um, and that was what, what, what my husband gave me and what we had to go towards. And then we took the hard money loan for $102,500 to rehab it. Okay, so you've got like $168,000 all in on this house, right? Right. And what would it sell for?

We were told it should sell for $229,000, and it did not. It didn't move. What could it sell for $229,000, and it did not. It didn't move. What could it sell for? That's what she said. I mean, that's what everyone's saying. Could it sell for $180,000? Maybe, maybe. Well, I would sell it and get out of this thing, and you still made a little bit of profit, and you learned a lesson.

The fact that you got zero offers makes me think that it's overpriced. Are there other houses in the area similar that sold for 229 yeah the thing is i refied so actually i would be in it for a little more because my refi costs were like 4 000 so i you know okay so you're in for 172 i'm saying if you even sold it for, you got 180 after fees, you still can walk away from this. I think y'all, you know, we don't need to get greedy and try to get 230 out of it. Right now we just need to get out of it. If you can get 12,000 more, then you can cut your losses on the other one and sleep well at night. I think that's the goal.

The goal is to try to clear 12,000 from this and get out of the other loan and then never go into real estate flipping again. How much have you invested into this third property? So that's the issue. So it's $138,500 and that is for all hard money loan money. It's straight hard loan money. When is it due? $138,500. It was due like three months ago and he extended it again and then I had to pay on top of the interest the monthly interest I had to pay um an extra month of interest what's the interest now $1,385 a month only that's it yeah a month until you until you do what pay it all back until I sell until I Yeah, until I pay it all back. But the thing is, like now, come June, he's going to charge me

an additional $1,385. A solid 1% every single month that this thing doesn't sell. Right, but he's charging me a 2% on the third month that it doesn't sell. You need to get out of this chain and you need to never touch real estate again.

Let's just cut our losses. Yeah, sell it at a loss. I don't care what you have to do. I don't care if you lose 12 grand. Y'all are not meant to be real estate moguls and unsubscribe from the freaking YouTube channel. And I hope this is a lesson to all of you, America. This is how Dave Ramsey went bankrupt in the 80s. It's the same exact concept.

He's been telling y'all for 30 years not to do this crap. And here you are trying to be a money mogul real estate agent, and it's going to rob you blind. Wow. I'm sorry, Jane. I hate that that happened. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm going to be honest.

I had to decompress after a previous call we took about real estate and some mistakes that someone made trying to get into flips and become a real estate mogul. Borrowing from the 401k to do so. Working with a terrible real estate agent who doesn't know the economics of the area across the country trying to do this thing. And let me tell you, there's a right way to do real estate. There's a way to do it the Ramsey way with peace. And one of the ways you do that is you got to work with a pro. We want you to have the experience where selling or buying the home is a blessing instead of a burden. And the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and get the best offer on your house or find the right house for you. So here's

how it works. We're going to send you some of the top agents in your area who we trust, and our team vets these people. You get to review their stats. You get to interview them. You decide which one you want to work with. But we've done the hard work of vetting these people down so you have a nice short list of folks in your area who can help with this experience. These Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience, and they're going to help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer. So do yourself a favor. Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent. I love my Ramsey Trtrusted real estate agent.

That's, you know, when you can say, I'm a big fan of my real estate agent, that tells you something. Mandy Lynn Festy, let's go. There we go, shout out. Shout out to Mandy in the Nashville area. Come through. Let's go to the phone.

Sean's up next in Dallas. Sean, welcome to the show. How can we help? Hey, first of all, thank you for taking my call. I'm proud to say because of Ramsey and the organization, I am debt-free. Woo-hoo! House and everything? Woo-hoo!

I'm sorry? House and everything, or is this your consumer debt you paid off? Well, I paid off consumer debt. Way to go. That's my question. So currently living in a townhome. I'm recently married, both of our second, and our children are grown and out of the house, so it's just her and I. Woohoo! I'm just kidding!

So we have some living expenses, but they're minimal. So our combined income is around $250,000 on the low end annually. Nice. Cool. I have an emergency savings fund at my credit union earning a little over 4% of $25,000. Good. I've been saving for, during our dating period,

we saved feverishly. I currently have about $225,000, also earning 4% at the credit union. Wow. Is that for a down payment? A year ago. So far, so good, right? So I paid cash for a lot in a new community going in. We intend for this to be our forever home.

The plans are done and we are looking at an approximate build cost of $500,000. I always figure a 10% window could go to $550 to 550. We're prepared for that. Okay. So my question is, um, and I, and again, following Ramsey, uh, definitely not going to mortgage for longer than 15 planets to pay it off in 10 or sooner. So my question is my, my current savings for the home, I, and that could grow between this point and the construction in eight months. But do I put all that down since I have my $25,000 emergency fund separate, totally separate account? But nonetheless, do I put down as much as possible? That's going to put us down to a smaller amount. But nonetheless, I feel like with the $25,000 in the savings fund, so seeking your advice and perhaps some validation that I've planned this properly just by listening to the show along the way. I mean, if I were in your shoes and I had $225,000 to put down, I mean, if you said, listen, I just want to have a little bit more cushion than $25,000, is that three or six months of expenses for you? Easily six months. That's easily six months. You guys have a great income. You said

over $250,000, right? Yes. If I were you with the numbers you gave me, I'd probably go ahead and put it all down on a construction of permanent loan for this house. And that way you're closing one time and you're kind of locking it in. And you know that once the build is done, it's going to convert to your permanent loan, mortgage loan, and you're set to go. And you're paying for basically half of this upfront, which is really cool. How much more can you save between now and eight months from now when you close? easily 30 to 40,000. Wow. And that was my next question would be, is that added to the down payment or is that added to just savings and life expenses and vacations?

I would put as much down as possible. And the only thing you need to think through is, okay, we're going to have some moving expenses, some closing costs outside of the down payment. Right. So as long as you have that piece set aside, yeah, furniture, all of that. So if you want to have, you know, 10, 20 grand set aside for all of that stuff, moving, furniture, closing costs, you can do that. But the rest, I would throw all of it. If you can save up 260 and throw it at this on the down payment, I would do it. And I tell you as someone who did that, now not on this,

that number, but we bought a townhome, it was $300,000. We put down $145,000, which meant we had a $165,000 loan on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage, and we paid it off aggressively. And so the same thing's going to happen for you, Sean. Making $250,000, you're going to pay that mortgage off, my guess is in three years, that thing's gone. Yeah, that's, and our cars are paid for. So, you know, in that regard, you know, but insurance, homeowner's insurance and everything is going to be required to go into the escrow fund. That'll be all built into your monthly payment. But the lower the payment, the more you can put extra on top of the principal, which means the faster you're going to pay it off. And the more things you can do fun around the house. Like for me, the more you put down, the lower that payment is that frees up more of your income where you guys

can, you know, do furniture room by room and do it at the speed of cash and do all those little fun things that go along with having a brand new house and a brand new property. And so if I were in your shoes, I'd put as much as I can towards that and stick to that 15-year fixed rate mortgage and you'll pay it off worst case in half the time but knowing you you're gonna pay it off in three years and you're gonna save hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest compared to someone who did the 30-year and just attempted to pay it off yeah in that time frame so way to go I'm proud of you man that's impressive beautiful thing I needed an inspiring call Jade and that was it we were saying this has been a tough day for calls, George. I needed a win. I got my win

from Sean. All right, let's go to Matthew. Get right down the road in Nashville, Tennessee. What's going on, Matthew? Hello? Hey, George. Hey, Jade. How are you? Hey, doing well. How are you? How can we help? Doing well, thanks. So I was having lunch with a friend of mine today, and my main question is about HSA in general, and he said that a lot of, you know, HSA portfolios will allow you to invest part or all of the funds. That's right. And I was unaware of that. I thought, you know, like I always assumed that HSA was just basically a holding account for medical expenses and everything. No, it's a great vehicle. Okay, so if you put your money in your HSA, that money is growing tax-free,

and you can use it for, obviously, medical purchases, and you don't have to pay taxes on that. But here at Ramsey, we love using it as an investment vehicle. After you've maxed out a Roth IRA, after you've maxed out your 401k, it's great if you have a high deductible insurance plan that you can reach over and start contributing to your HSA. That's what I do, and I invest the money. And I think you have to keep like $1,000 liquid,

and then you can invest the rest. Above $1,000 threshold, you can invest that into mutual funds. They have options within there that you can invest, and that's exactly what I do. And when you turn 62, you can have access to it. 65, it turns into like a traditional 401k account. So what's your exact question, Matthew? Well, so I guess my exact question would be, so I opened up my health equity app. That kind of gives me control and access to

my HSA funds and everything. And sure enough, there was an investment tab on there with smart investment pro or something. I can't remember the exact name of it, but it didn't give you a whole lot of options as far as what the portfolio was, what the spread was that it would invest those funds in. So I guess my question is kind of twofold. Number one, is it smart to invest in something that you don't know? No, don't invest in anything that you don't understand. And if you need more help, you can get with one of our SmartVestor pros to help explain the different ways that you can invest that money. But no, I would not pick funds until I know what I'm investing in. Sorry, ran out of time on that one, Matthew, but call us back if we can help again. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. We just had a call, Jade, about HSAs, health savings accounts, and we got cut off short. So I want to do a quick teaching recap for everyone listening to make sure they make the most of an HSA. So if you have a high deductible health care plan, you can access an HSA as part of that, a health savings account, which is different than a flexible savings account, the FSA. Yes. And the beauty is the HSA money rolls over year over year. So you get to keep it. That's right. Where the FSA does not, you got to use it within that timeframe. And the beautiful part is, number one, with a high deductible healthcare plan,

you have lower premiums, which helps save you money. But number two, the HSAs have a triple tax benefit. That's right. So this is amazing. The money going in is tax sheltered, right? So whatever you contribute to it, that lowers your taxable income. And then the growth on that money is tax-free. And if you pull out some of the money and use it on qualified purchases, that money is tax-free as well. For your medical expenses, it's tax-free.

So that's an amazing advantage there with a triple advantage. And then, like I mentioned, the HSA rolls over each year. But the really cool part is when it comes to retirement. So we mentioned it quickly on air, but let me explain this. As you build money in the HSA, you can invest it. And so most thresholds are going to be a thousand bucks. Once you have over a thousand bucks in that HSA, you can invest the money beyond that into mutual funds, just like you would in an IRA or a 401k. And they should have the same options that we teach, the growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. You can still choose. I just checked my account. I'm invested across the four types of mutual funds that we teach.

So you have some great options inside of there. But when you turn 65, the HSA sort of turns into a traditional IRA. So you can take money out for things that are not medical, but you will pay taxes like you would in a traditional IRA. That's right. So it's a really cool option for those that have a high deductible health care plan. And part of it is people say, well, how does this work with the investment side? You buy mutual funds just like you would inside of an IRA or 401k. And then when you want to turn that money back into cash, those

investment funds, you could sell the shares, turn it back into cash and use it. Here's the thing. If you've heard Dave Ramsey talk about this, he says, I would recommend you not using it. I never touch it. I mean, I think that's the whole point, right? Is we have the three to six months of emergency funds And by the time you're even getting into this all of your debt is paid off You've kind of built that firm foundation to where truly you really shouldn't need to Liquidate any of that money for any reason I I treat it as retirement Yeah, unless there's like chronic health issues in the family. You're constantly needing to use this

um, it can be a really great way to build a tertiary retirement account. I love it. I mean, we would say start with whatever your Roth option is. So start with your Roth IRA if you can max that out. Maybe if you have a Roth 401k, you max that out. And whatever your 401k option is. And then after that, if you're like, hey, Jade, I still have money to invest. Moving over to an HSA if you have access to it, because everybody doesn't, depending on their medical plan.

But if you have access, yeah, I'd max that out. And I think for families, it's like 8,300. 8,300 in 2024. For individuals, it's half of that at 4,150. And if you're 55 or older, you can have an extra thousand bucks in there to play catch up, which is amazing. So a good goal, if you're wondering, hey, based on my baby step, how much should I put in there? Well, where you are in your financial journey matters. So a good goal is to have enough money to cover your annual deductible each year. That way, you're at least covered there. And so some employers have a match, like we have a match here at Ramsey for the HSA money. So if that's a match available to you, that's a great start. That's free money. Once you kind of become debt-free, you have the emergency fund,

now you can look at maxing that out on top of your 15%. Because another question we get is, does this count toward my 15%? Because I'm technically investing. It doesn't because this is for medical expenses only. So on top of your 15%, if you want to max out your HSAs, once you're in that spot and baby step four, that's great. But before then, it is wise to just have enough to cover your annual deductible. So there's a lot of information on this.

We're going to link in the show notes and description the article, How to Make the Most of Your HSA Investment from the Ramsey Solutions blog. That will be a great resource for you all to learn more about this. But I thought we just needed a recap since we didn't get a whole lot of time with Matthew. All right, let's get to our question of the day. It comes from Abigail in Oregon. Yeah, she says, my 24-year-old son is already in credit card debt. My mom made the mistake of telling him that my dad had left him $25,000,

which was to be paid out when he turns 25 this year. It's in my account for now. I'd plan to tell him as soon as I thought he could be responsible with the money, but now he expects it to be transferred to him on his birthday. How do I handle this situation? Well, on the one hand, if the money was meant to be given to him when he's 25 there's not really a lot that you can do about that um he's just already blown through it um she doesn't say how much credit card debt that he has is it 2,000 or 50,000 yeah it's a difference but i do think that you know there is you know you're his mom so you get to sit down and say here's here's what i want to make sure you understand like this

money is going to go very quickly maybe it's's already gone. I don't know. Maybe it's already spent, but really sit down and talk to him about this. Now, here's the other thing, George. I don't know a lot. You know, there's not a lot in this question, but I will say this, especially with older children, it's hard to tell them something if you didn't do it and it's hard to get them to listen. So I don't know. Is her financial situation great? If not, he might not be willing to listen to her. So this is a tough one. Well, there's some legal questions here.

She said it's in my account now. For me, that must mean this wasn't done through a trust or something where there's legal boundaries where legally he gets it at 25. But if grandma already told her grandson, hey, pop pop left you 25 grand, you're getting it on your 25th birthday. Well, now it's going to create a rift in the relationship with mom and son to where she goes, yeah, I have the money, but you're not getting it because I don't trust you with the money. And so part of it is trying to give them some financial literacy and saying, hey, grandpa left you this money. I want you to honor his legacy. I want you to use this wisely. And here's how we're going to do that. And we're going to filter through the Ramsey baby steps.

We're going to go through Financial Peace University to show him this money is best spent paying off the debt, getting an emergency fund in place and then we can enjoy some give some save some here's the thing though it's not like this kid's 18 like he's about to be 25 he's a grown man and hopefully i yeah and so part of you know we always say here that you should talk openly about money that you know whether it's uh money set aside for college money that you're going to be getting for an inheritance like you don't keep these things a secret so that you can kind of like control it and then spring it on them you talk about it often so that you can control it and so that you can teach while you have the opportunity to teach and so i just don't think that this was

handled in the best possible way i don't think that that it's too late, but at the same time, he's grown. Yeah. If he's not living under your roof and under your rule, I think you just got to go. Here's the money. Here's what I hope you do with it. I hope you honor his legacy. I hope you get rid of this debt and you don't go back in. I hope you use it toward financial goals and get the emergency fund. I think that's the most beautiful way to honor the legacy. Agree. But you're a grown adult. And if you want to go make some mistakes with it, that's going to be your mistakes to clean up. Yeah. You're about to make some big boy mistakes. It's hard because as a parent, you don't want to see your kid suffer. You don't want to see them financially hurt themselves.

But at the same time, if it's just mom said I had to, then they're never going to grow. Yeah. They have to mature. And part of maturity is making those mistakes sometimes so i hope he does the right thing but i think you just give him the money and have a stern conversation with love yeah i think so too would you if you were leaving money there's also part of it's like you know if you're leaving money would you just say hey i'm leaving this money but you can in the trust you can have all kinds of stipulations about what you have to do with that money and. What you can and can't do. What you can and can't do.

And you don't get it if X, Y, and Z are the case. And so there's a lot of things you can do within a trust to make sure your wishes are carried out. Do you want to know a crazy story? We have a little bit of time. Tell me. So when my husband and I were engaged, he was left a sum of money from his grandfather,

but the stipulation was he had to marry someone Jewish, which you are not. I'm not. So what happened? I'm here, aren't I? I got the last name. I got the ring. So what did he do with the money? What happened? He had to stiff arm it. He stiff arm the money for you. That is true love. That's true love. Then turns out a lot of the grandkids also did not marry someone Jewish, so they were able to go. They went around it, and they were still able to get through. Oh, my goodness.

Isn't that interesting? That is wild. What you won't do. The things we do for love. I thought you were going meatloaf with that. I would do anything for love, but I won't do that. Sam did it. He did it. He did it. Respect to Sam Warshaw. It paid off, man. That's awesome. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 12.9.

My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me. In a left turn, J.K. Rowling once said, anything's possible if you've got enough nerve. I like that level of persistence. George, you got some nerve. That's me getting discounts. That's my version of that. I've got enough nerve to ask for the discount.

Listen, I've watched you in these breaks try to get these discounts on these Seinfeld tickets. That's right. If anyone's got the hookup, I refuse. Jade's like, George, just go. I mean... Just pay the stub. I'm like, I'm not going to let the scalpers win. Not on my watch.

I'm going to get these tickets at face value if it's the last thing I do. Waving flag that's my that's my latest conundrum if you're wondering what's happening in the world of george it's a good deal yeah all right that's fine let's go to joan in jacksonville florida what's going on joan make us happy how can we help? Well, hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a situation where I have a couple of options, but I really don't know what to do. I'm 86 years old. I have only social security, I own my own home, I own my car, but I have about almost $30,000 credit card debt. Oh, my goodness. I know.

I am making minimum payments, but I've only left with maybe $100, $200 a month to eat, put gas in the car. Now, I do have help from a daughter and an ex-husband that feeds me, you know, as I need it if I make a suggestion, but it's embarrassing that I don't want to. you know, as I need it if I make a suggestion, but it's embarrassing that I don't want to. I could, I think about selling the car. It's 17 years old.

I won't buy another one, but I'm pretty much going to be grounded. What's the car worth? Well, it's a Crown Victoria. I don't think that's going to make a dent in your credit card debt. I'd rather you keep the car worth? Well, it's a Crown Victoria. I don't think that's going to make a dent in your credit card debt. I'd rather you keep the car to get around. Yeah, true. Or sell the house.

That's what I want to know. Oh, boy. And get an apartment. Well, the problem is right now you have a fixed expense with this paid-for house. Right. So if you sold it to pay off your credit card debt, that leaves you with an expense that's ongoing and increasing. And with your Social Security, I don't know that you're going to be able to afford the payment of the rent.

How much do you get every month? $11,198. Okay. Almost $1,000. So about $1,198. Okay. Almost $1,000. So about $1,200 a month. Right, yeah. And what are your monthly expenses right now? You're saying you have $100 left over.

So you need about $1,100 to live? All of it. $1,000? No. The reason I'm in credit card debt is I always need about $200 more. And so I use a credit card, and then I'll start paying the minimum payments, and then the interest starts hitting on them, and the bill, bill, bill. Now, the last two or three months, I had, what, almost $3,000 in car repair and some other $700 to the dentist.

Yeah. And so all that went on. You just have no cushion. You have no cushion to pay for anything that comes up beyond your $1,100 a month, right? Unless I beg it from either a daughter or an ex. I'm sorry. Oh, an ex. I'm sorry. Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry.

Joan, this is not a fun place to be. What is your house worth? My health? Your house. What's it worth? Well, what do you mean by that? If you sold it today, what could you get for it? Oh, my health?

Yes. Oh, the house is probably worth 195 to maybe 250. Okay. That's a big... But on either side, the houses have built around me and they're worth 600 and500,000. Why is yours so low? Yeah. No updates? Is it in rough shape? No, mine is just old. When I came here 21 years ago...

Oh, they built a bunch of new houses around you. Yeah, they built everybody around me and I don't have an HOA and everybody else. Are you at the point where you can move in with your daughter? Well, I could, but I'm not too sure about that, you know, personalities. I mean, it would be, I have some health problems, but they're under control. Well, the problem is, let's say if I snap my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you're going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you're using the credit cards to float your life and expenses.

Well, I promised her that from now on, I would ask her after if I have to charge something. But you're still behind 200 bucks a month, which you're using credit cards for, you told us. So you've got your... I know. That's not going to change anytime soon. You've got your daughter, and do you have other kids, or is it just her? Yes, but that wouldn't be possible.

Okay, so your daughter has said, Mom, let me know before you charge this credit card. Tell me, and I'm going to try to help you out, basically, right? Yes. So like you said, it's embarrassing and it's tough, but your options are you either reach out to your daughter and you say, Hey,

you told me that this lifeline is here. And the truth is I need $200 every month in order to be able to live and not spend any more on this credit card. That $200 will help me make my to live and not spend any more on this credit card that $200 will help me make my minimum payments and not go over if you said that to her is she on board and to say okay I'm going to help you in that way and then because the other option is we might have to look at this house which doesn't really make sense because of the cost of living today. Like, there's not really an option. I know. You know. That's what, yeah, that's one thing that's made it gone up more. Well, okay. Your expenses are

$1,400 and you're bringing in $1,200. That's the truth at the end of the day, right? Because you're going $200 in a debt on the credit cards. Yes. So we need to find a way to either lower our expenses somehow or increase our income. I don't know we're going to find a way to increase income. I wrote down every penny I've spent this past month. Could you downgrade in-house? If you sold it for $250, could you go buy a place for $200? I'm not sure in Florida right now. I mean...

Or even an apartment? I mean, by the clock... No, it's a house. I'm saying, could you downgrade to an apartment? Oh, well, I could go. Yeah, I mean, I could, but I'm 86 years old. I know, but we also didn't set ourselves up for a bright future in retirement. No.

So this is part of it, is we've got to deal with the ramifications. I was a single mother since I was 19 years old with no child support, and I worked until I was almost 80. What were you doing for work? Maybe I better almost 80. What were you doing for work? I mean, I was a, maybe I better not say. I worked in a pharmacy technician. Okay. Is there something you could do to make a little bit of extra money right now?

Are you able to get around and do that? Oh, yeah, I could. I mean, I think we might need to find a little part-time job to clean up this debt and increase our income. If you're able-bodied. It's not fun, but this might be your only option other than selling the house and downgrading to an apartment that you pay cash for, which allows you to clean up the credit card debt, lowering your monthly expenses. Right. Well, I have leukemia. I've had it for 21 years.

I don't really have a high energy level. And I have a dog. And the dog, I was going to tell you the expenses the dog cost. The dog was the biggest expense. I bet. I know. I got two little French bulldogs, and they're the biggest line item in my budget right now. Joan, I'm so sorry. Yeah, it was

$181 for the dog. Every month? No, just this month. Okay. Just this month? Oh, Joan, I'm so sorry. You have been through it. I would definitely look at downgrading in-house and going to an apartment you pay cash for, getting rid

of the credit card debt. If you need to re-ome the dog, I'd rather you eat before the dog. So that's the hard truth. I hope it helps, and I hope your daughter or ex-husband can help. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. We'll be back before you know it. Thank you.