The Ramsey Show - App - I’m a Pastor With $175K in Student Loan Debt (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Kristina Ellis discuss: How to go to medical school without debt, Avoiding debt even when you don't have much money, What baby step 3b looks like when building a house, Digging out of $175k of student loan debt (for ministry). Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Christina Ellis, number one best-selling author. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Caden is with us in New York. Hi, Caden. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I just graduated high school and I'm headed to college this fall. I have my undergraduate all financially figured out debt-free, but I want to go to medical school and I have no idea how I'm going to do that without taking out student loans. Well, good job on figuring out your undergrad debt-free. That's awesome. How are you doing that? Well, I've just gotten enough scholarships and the rest I can just work through. That's outstanding. Way to go. Thank you. Yeah. Medical school, that's amazing. I love that you're already having that insight and that vision to start thinking about it right now.

The fact that you're in high school still and already dreaming that up shows that you're really bright and smart and competitive in school. So I love that. Going to medical school debt free, I'm sure you've heard a lot of people say it's a bit more challenging. And it is more challenging. But the fact that you're already researching it and you are bright gives me great hope that you can get some of the scholarships and fellowships available for medical school. I would encourage you to start researching early like you're doing now. I mean, start learning about these programs. So a lot of these programs that are available to go to medical school debt-free, like I said, they're competitive. So what do you need to be doing in undergrad to be the candidate that qualifies for those programs? I think that's the biggest thing you focus on right now is what do I need to do?

What needs to be true in my life to really stand out in the process of winning a scholarship or a fellowship or one of these really amazing programs that help pay for medical school? Yeah. One of the things you want to look towards, Caden, is a product called the MD-PhD program. And that's where you become an employee of the university, and then employees go to school free. Okay, that sounds good. That's very tough.

Again, they're very competitive. It falls under the heading of what Christina was saying. It's a type of fellowship is what it is. But the program is out there, and it can be done. But their academics are uh and grade point average is going to enter into it for sure uh but other things other things other things will as well so study that start figuring out that the other thing i'll urge you is and i don't know what i guess it's like a lot of things in higher education people don't stop to realize that there's a vast spectrum of what you can pay.

The difference in med school A and med school B in cost is dramatic. And so I'm going to start researching, you know, what is the cheapest med schools in America? And I'm going to be applying there because you're going to need, you know, you don't want to go to the most expensive med school in America unless they're going to give you a free ride. But if they've got scholarships or you've got a fellowship or something like that, then we'll go there. Of course, there is the military, and they'll pay for it. And you're going to serve your country by being a doc for the military for a while as part of that program, you know, but that is an option.

That's one of the things that's out there the national guard uh has a similar program as well so but but again you've got to look at what how long you're willing to tie yourself up after med school in a military career if you're that's a trade-off uh versus the debt that you're going to go in versus going into the debt uh the last thing is is really a needle in a haystack, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway because I've heard about it happening a couple of times. There is a shortage of docs in rural areas and in what are called underserved areas,

typically like an inner city type situation. And there is a student loan forgiveness program for those uh that's not what i'm recommending but in those situations some of the big hospital companies like for instance hca may have from time to time a program that feels a little bit like the military program where they're willing to pay for you to be a doc but you agree to serve in uh out in a cornfield somewhere for the next five years after that and instead of instead of at a metro hospital in a uh a cushy job thing uh or whatever i don't i don't know what the trade-off is but learn about that and also in that same haystack

where there's a couple of needles the drug companies uh there there's occasions i have heard of uh scholarships through them for med students because they love the idea of being nice to future docs so future docs prescribe their brand okay it's not so that loan forgiveness thing that's not like through the government because i've been listening to your show for a few years now. That is through the government, but I'm not recommending that. Okay, okay. That's like a last resort kind of thing.

And it's a different kind of loan forgiveness than the kind we trash on here all the time. This is the underserved. That one actually happens, and it's a three- to a five-year turnaround on it. It's not the 10-year and 98% of the people that apply don't get it. That's the private student loan forgiveness or the public student loan forgiveness program. That one's a joke. It's a scam. Okay.

But the one I'm talking about actually does happen in the medical field. It's unique to the medical field. Maybe nurses, but I don't remember, docs for sure. But it's like $50,000 they'll forgive. But if you're $300,000 in debt because you went to a stupid expensive school then 50,000 bucks doesn't help you for being in an underserved area there's a lot of ways to get at the point you brought up is the most important point a he's getting started early b he sounds like he's really sharp oh and you know the thing I didn't bring up he's got four years while he's in school. Right. Work. Right.

A lot. Right. I mean, what if you made $50,000 a year for four years because you worked all the time? That'll serve you well. $50,000 a year and you don't have hardly any expenses? That's $200,000. I think we just solved it. I mean, work's a surefire money-making scheme.

And it gets you experience. It gets you prepared for whatever you're going to do next. Particularly if you could work in the field you know the ken coleman idea proximity principal what if you were working in a hospital and you know all these docs and hospital companies and people you run into execs are trying to figure out a way to help you go to med school free that'd be pretty cool kristin is in st louis and we're going to come back to you kristin after the commercial break i looked down at my clock and realized I was out of time. One of the cool things with him, too, is just keeping those options open. The fact that he's looking this early and he's got this time to lay things out.

The biggest thing with higher education that seems like a lot of people don't do is really explore all the options before they make a decision. It's like get those options written down on paper and then evaluate what needs to be true in my life in order for me to qualify for that scholarship, in order for me to be able to pay for that school, and really dig deep and figure out there's not just one path. There's a variety of options you can do. Yeah, I mean, I've heard so many people feel they put themselves in a situation where they feel trapped.

They go, well, I was only approved for one medical medical school and so it's the only one i can do it's gonna be seven hundred thousand dollars but it's the only one i can do you know you know no is a possible answer too you know right you know so you gotta you gotta take some of these things off the table and go we're gonna go a route route that involves no debt and if you take debt off the table then you have to scratch and figure out and be creative and hustle and grind your way through it you'll find a way this is the Ramsey Show សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី christina i think there is a month for everything now august is national make a will month oh brother that's a thing well you do need to make a will though so if you don't have an up-to-date will then and you don't have your estate plan in order then maybe august make a will month will remind you to do it sounds silly but you should be doing it so there's the thing

uh what are you waiting for there's no need to you need to knock this out you can't wait wait wait wait wait you're not more likely to die if you have a will it doesn't enter into it you're not going to live you're going to die eventually someday nobody gets out of this thing alive everyone needs a will estate planning covers all the documents the plans the conversations you need to have for when something happens to you not if something is going to happen to you someday and no you don't have to be an eccentric millionaire with an offshore account to have an estate plan. It just means that there's a plan because you're going to have an estate. And a good estate plan protects your family's future, and everybody knows what's going on, and your wishes are carried out because they're now in a legal document.

Start by checking out our estate planning guide. It is free and it's an easy to use tool that will help you keep track of everything that you need to do. It walks you through which documents to get, like your will if you don't have one as an example, what conversations to have, where you can go to get more information. Give yourself and your loved ones peace of mind by figuring this stuff out ahead of time download your complete guide to estate planning for free after all it's national make a will month at ramsey solutions.com slash estate guide ramsey solutions.com slash estate guide it's free go get it do the work do the work be an adult blinds dot com gives us our question of the day they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you

mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they're going to remake your blinds for free you have free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Miranda in Mississippi. I'm a 20-year-old who is struggling and feel like debt is inevitable for me. I took out a private loan for $5,000 after paying off my first year and a semester of school by myself. My savings account has been drained and I have not been the best budgeter. How can I avoid loans when I have no money? I need to be enrolled and go to school. I am at a loss as to how to move

forward. Well, first of all, Miranda, I would take a deep breath and give yourself some grace. A lot of people are not great budgeters when they're 20. I love that you're asking this question. The fact that you're writing in and you're interested in budgeting says a lot. So first of all, just don't speak that you're not a great budgeter over you because I think you have so much room for growth. And a lot of people who start budgeting don't feel like they're great budgeters. A lot of people are like, oh, we say that it typically takes people about three months to start getting good at a budget. So give yourself grace with that. But with the college situation, the first thing I do is talk to your financial aid office. You're obviously already in school. So sit down with a financial aid officer and explain your situation. Explain that you don't have the money to pay for school.

You're not going to take out any more loans. So ask them, you know, is there any other extra funding available? A lot of schools offer discounts on tuition. So see if you're eligible for any additional discounts to be able to make ends meet. See if there are any other scholarships available that maybe you could apply for or that they can actually just give you. And see if there are any other jobs on campus. But that point person can kind of explain what's available at your school so that you can get kind of a true number that you now need to figure out. So, you know, that's the very first point person. And then, of course, working, getting jobs off campus.

A lot of times if you look off campus, you can get jobs that pay a bit more than what you can find working at the library at your school or somewhere on campus. So see what's available there. You can make $25 an hour cleaning toilets. Yep. Walking dogs. Babysitting. there you can make 25 an hour cleaning toilets yep walking dogs babysitting a lot of retail jobs are getting close to that too now yeah and uh miranda you're not working there's nothing in here that indicates at all that you're doing any work and you need to work like a lot yep like all the time like 40 hours a week how long i go to school you're gonna go to school you're just not gonna have much of a social life oh well so what is the what is the

goal here what's the primary goal if i can only get one thing done in the next four years social life or school which am i gonna do because you're. Well, that's to give the rest of your life to have a great social life. So be willing to invest now and work hard so that you can really enjoy and have freedom after you graduate. It's just a temporary sacrifice for a really massive long-term benefit. And then also when you're looking at jobs off campus, though, really be strategic. Don't just jump on the first job that you see. A lot of companies are offering tuition benefit programs. So see if you can get a high hourly rate, plus see if you can find somebody who will actually pay for your college tuition or give you a portion of that. Because there's a lot of people out there doing that and you want to be as strategic as possible.

Yeah. You know, there was a thing, and I think it's still rolling out there, that a bunch of these companies, FedEx, UPS, Target, Chili's, several of these other companies were offering school tuition and work. Yeah. It's actually a growing trend. And the work is like $20 an hour. I mean, it's, yeah. So look for stuff like that. Well, and the challenge with that is you may need to transfer to make that happen.

So a lot of these jobs are offering free tuition benefits for certain colleges. So I don't know what college you're going to. You may be going to a college that costs $60,000 a year. And if you have no money and you're not getting a lot of financial aid or scholarships from that school, you may need to consider going somewhere else and going to a job that offers free tuition benefits. And it may be to a state school. It may not be to the most prestigious school in the area. But if it's free, that's incredible. You can graduate that free and still get a great job yep absolutely absolutely prestige the prestige of the school does not enter into the decision at all you don't have any money and so and prestigious schools have no track record whatsoever of causing you to be

successful zero so i don't really care about the prestige of the school at all you you to be successful. Zero. So I don't really care about the prestige of the school at all. You need to be studying something that's applicable and studying it. People that are really reasonable on teaching it and get plugged in. So I don't know where you are in Mississippi, Miranda, but lots and lots and lots of hard work, lots of plugging into companies that while you're working and earning money also have scholarship programs, getting scholarships, going to the counselor's office like Christina is saying here, and all of that comes together and where you're going to school, how you're working, and how you're getting scholarships. Those are the three things to get people through debt-free.

But I think it's important for sometimes people to stop and go, I may not be at the right school. I think that's a really hard pill to swallow. But people who were taking out student loans, they caught on to the show, and they're going, oh, my gosh, I don't want to take any more student loans out. You may need to transfer schools. You may have to because, I mean, you may be at a place you can't afford. You may look up and, oh, I bought a car. I can't afford it.

I've got to sell the car. And it's inconvenient in the short term, but run it's completely worth the effort well i mean there's so much emotion tied to i got in and this is my school but it's true i mean you know a lot of emotion tied to that and i get it i get it i mean it's nice to go somewhere the emotion is legitimate but it's a bad decision making tool right and it can be very costly in the long run. Oh, it can be out of control. Yeah. In order just to not deal with the emotion of moving schools and how painful that would be,

you end up $150,000 in debt. That would be under the stupid column, you know, because you wouldn't deal with you. And it's just hard. It really is. And it's like I was talking to a dad the other day. He's like, my daughter's dream school, and it's going to be $200,000. She's going to be $200,000 in debt when she comes out. And I'm like, that's not your daughter's dream school.

That's called a nightmare. It's not a dream. It's a nightmare, Dad. You have to grow up. Dad, come on, suck it up. Tell your daughter she's being a – don't do it. Don't do it. Tell her she's being dumb.

And, you know, no, don't participate in this ridiculous process. No, no, it's not a dream when you're $200,000 in debt. That's not a dream. That sets you up for a decade. You're setting your finances back a decade because of your dream school. Oh, shoot me. It is not your dream. It's a freaking nightmare.

You ought to wake up in the middle of the night screaming like you just had a horror, like you went to a horror movie in your head. No, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. No, it's not a dream. Don't confuse the two. And dads and moms, be a nightmare. No, it's not a dream. Don't confuse the two. And dads and moms, be a parent. Be a parent.

Look at them and say, no, I'm old, crusty, and I'm not dumb. No, you're not doing that. You're young, wet behind the ears, and dumb. No, you're not doing that. I love you too much to let you create a decade's worth of pain for yourself. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Christina Ellis, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host. Kristen is with us in St. Louis.

Hi, Kristen. What's up? Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So my question is about Baby Step 3B. Okay. So my husband and I are looking at starting this step soon i'm due

to graduate with my nurse practitioner degree in may and since we cash flowed this program we'll be getting done debt free ding ding way to go thank you how'd you do that um well i've worked full-time until clinicals and then my husband got turned in a side hustle to pay for the rest of the program. Wow, there you go. Okay, good. Well done. Okay, so what's your question? So we own some farmland that we're planning on building on, and so I've heard you talk about Step 3B with buying a home,

but my question is what is your recommendation for Step 3B with buying a home, but my question is, what is your recommendation for Step 3B with building a home, like with how much to save before starting or just your recommendations of that? Is the land paid for? So, the farm is, it's kind of like the farm pays for itself. We kind of use that as a business. Is it debt-free? It is not. Okay. um so how much do you

owe on it oh it we just got it um two years ago and so we just started paying for it it's about 55 acres what do you owe on it 200 some odd okay and what's it worth it now it land in our area skyrocketed so it's worth much more than what's it worth i honestly don't know give me a guess give me a guess um honestly probably about 400 000 i was gonna guess 400 yeah okay that's good yeah all right and your household income is what? Right now, roughly $80,000. And since I'm not working, but once I get done, we're looking at doubling that. Okay.

So you're going to be making $190,000 a year, $160,000 a year, something like that, right? And you have $200,000 worth of equity, and that will form as your down payment if you go apply for a construction loan. Because when you apply for a construction loan, what they're going to do is they're going to probably not take a second position to your existing mortgage. They're probably going to pay off your existing mortgage in the construction loan so that they are the mortgage on the property. And then they're going to let you draw down against the rest of the construction loan to build the house okay okay and then when it's all over uh if you spend three hundred thousand dollars on the house you had a two hundred thousand dollar mortgage to start with then you're going to have a five hundred thousand dollar permanent mortgage that pays off the construction loan okay when it's all done but the fact that you have two

hundred thousand dollars worth of equity makes this deal happen today with zero cash down payment okay because you've got this equity that rolls into the deal and you're you know it's going to be as if you put down two hundred thousand dollars because if like if we use my numbers if you built a three hundred thousand dollar house on it, you've got $500,000 in debt, but the property is going to be worth $700,000. Okay. And so that gives them the equity position that you need for the permanent mortgage for a traditional mortgage. Because if you put $200,000 down on a $700,000 deal, that'd be great, right? Right.

And that's the same math situation you find yourself in then so what's going to happen is you're going to have to have a a certified contractor in your state you're going to have to have a set of plans that are not on a brown paper bag that an appraiser can actually use to appraise the plan as if the house was completed and the bank is going to require these things in order for you to get to build the house okay you can't just make this crap up and they're going to give you half a million dollar or they're going to give you you know to do this thing with and so the certified contractor the fact the appraisal on the plans tells them that when it's done by the certified contractor, when it's completed on schedule and on budget, then they're not going to be at risk.

The bank's not going to have too much in the thing. The third thing they're going to make you do is go ahead and get your permanent mortgage. And the permanent mortgage, get it qualified for it, all the paperwork done. They will issue then, the permanent mortgage will issue, what's called a takeout letter. And the letter states that you have the mortgage in place to take out the construction loan because the construction loan is temporary lending. Right. So you take it out, you remove it with the permanent mortgage when you're done.

Now, some banks will do the permanent mortgage in-house and the construction loan in-house. Churchill Mortgage can do that for you, too. Okay? And so then you don't have to go to two different places to get it. But in every case, you know, oh, my husband's really good. He's going to do the building himself. That's not going to work.

Right. Or here's our plan. We sketched it out on a brown paper sack. That's not going to work. They're not going to give you the money. Right. Very professional, buttoned-down process here, just like you learned when you went to med school, but it's applied to the building industry.

Okay, perfect. You can do this, though. You don't have to have a whole bunch of 3B to pull it off. You all can start working on it. You're going to have to have your job in place because you're going to have to have the income. You don't have enough income now to support this program. But when your job's there, you're going to have to have the income. You don't have enough income now to support this program. But when your job's there, you're going to be able to do it.

That's pretty cool. They've done a great job. Yeah, that's outstanding. That's exciting to start visioning that up too. That's very exciting that you can sit there on 55 acres and start dreaming up what that's going to be like. Yeah, that's going to be a nice place. Nice place.

Especially with a nice bump in income too. You guys are going to be able to get to that spot where you're working through the baby steps and paying it off pretty quickly once you're all- You know what? That's true. Nice place. Especially with a nice bump in income, too. You guys are going to be able to get to that spot where, you know, you're working through the baby steps and paying it off pretty quickly once you're all. You know what? That's true. They're going to be making, before they know it, they'll be making a couple of hundred. And they'll be able to plow through that thing pretty quick.

Noah's in Sacramento. Hi, Noah. How can we help? Hey, Dave. I've got a question. I've got a considerable amount of student debt in a parent plus loan, and I'm trying to figure out how to make affordable payments on a loan that's in my parent's name that feels a little bit unaffordable at the moment.

What's the total amount of debt? It is $175. Good Lord. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? Neither one. What did a doctor or a lawyer? Neither one. What did you get your degree in? Christian Ministries. I'm a pastor.

For $175,000? Yeah. Okay. Bad choice. And that was not – you may be called to the ministry you weren't called to this mess um the uh i agree what is your what is your household income uh sixty thousand oh son i'm so sorry so mom and dad took out these loans their parent plus loans correct and they can't pay them.

I mean, they can pay part. Our agreement was that we would split it half before I went to school. That was the agreement. Are they struggling to pay them right now? They've been in deferment and forbearance and whatnot, so nobody's made any payments on them at this point and i mean my parents household income is considerably more uh than ours we're just trying to figure out uh again i i don't know how a lot of this works but i've been told by the the lender and whatnot that we can't like consolidate them into my name or anything

like that and so we're just trying to figure out what you just had to they're going to be in their name you're just going to assist in the payment of it and so they're going to give you like their password and the website and you're going to jump on there and pay payments on their loan it's their loan it's going to be their loan until it's over but you're just your your moral agreement your handshake is that you're picking up half of it. And so what does your wife make? She's not working at the moment. We have a young daughter and she's pregnant literally nine days past her due date today. Oh, wow. That's good. Second kid. Congratulations. So I assume she's planning on going back to work, though.

Yeah, when we don't have very young children, yes. That's the plan. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you're just going to be paying payments on this, Noah. And the math is telling me that this is a highly stressful situation. It is. I think you're going to be running, you're going to be what we call a bivocational

pastor uh you're going to be running side hustles of some kind there's nothing wrong with that doesn't it doesn't most pastors statistically one number i saw was 80 of them are bivocational in america right now and there's no shame in that it's not it doesn't diminish your call it doesn't do any of that but it's not unusual at all for a young pastor to be bivocational and you're going to have to have some more money it's a mathematical problem you got Our scripture today, Philippians 3.14, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Jim Rohn said, motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

I should walk away from the car wreck, but I can't. So I think we have a responsibility to address the situation with the last call. So let's go back again because you're the education expert here at Ramsey. You're the one that got half a million dollars in scholarships, and you study this stuff and work with students everywhere moms and dads the higher education community is at best irresponsible at worst con artists they are willing to charge you any amount of money that you can figure out a way to pay that does not justify itself in the career field that the person is going into.

So you can spend $300,000 and go with $300,000 in debt with higher education and get a degree in left-handed polka history. Completely useless, and you will be a $300,000 in-debt barista. Moms and dads, this is the environment we're in. And even seminaries will charge you $175,000 to be a pastor and get a job making $60,000. That is illogical. It is not. I'm a Christian. It is not good stewardship.

The seminary that did that should be ashamed of themselves. To let a young man go $300,000 and $175,000 in debt to become a pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. If you're in higher education and you're allowing that to happen, and you've got an 18-year-old signing up for that, and you did that. How do you sleep at night? Because there's no economics justification for this at all. Well, it's God's call on the young man's life. Absolutely. I believe in God's call on a young man's or young woman's life.

I believe in that. I also believe Jesus can do math. And I'm positive. There's Scripture all over the place that indicates that we are to be good managers, good stewards of opportunities that are in front of us, of financial

decisions that are in front of us, and if you put, it's all going to work out because God said said and then you go do something stupid and you blame it on god you ought to have your butt kicked because your christian doctrine is awful it's horrible and i'm not just yelling at this last young man that called i'm just about to cry for him i feel so sad for. He's getting ready to have a second baby any minute. He makes $60,000 a year, and between his parents and him

and the seminary that messed him over, he ends up $175,000 in debt. Someone out of the three of those people that call themselves adults at some point should have raised their hand and said, this is stupid. Yeah, $175,000 in debt for a profession that does not on average make enough to pay that off. That is asinine. And honestly, it's even more painful to see that it was a parent plus loan because that means a parent vouched for that and signed up off on that. It'd be different if you could even say, you know, it was an 18-year-old who went off out on his own and signed off for loans by himself, but this is a parent, and that's why.

Well, it's not just, I mean, Christians justify it sometimes with a toxic version of Christianity, like, well, it's God's calling us live. We have to do it. No, God does not call you to do stupid things. The blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. If there's sorrow added to it, it was not God. And so I don't question whether the young man was called into ministry. I am 100% sure God did not tell him to do $175 do 175 000 in debt there's too much scripture that comes against that idea and the same thing is true not just in that but if you want to help people and you want to go into social work

great i want to be i i'm glad i'm going to get a master's in sociology. Okay, great. What are you going to do? I'm going to work for the state as a caseworker. Great. You're going to make $30,000 to $48,000 a year. You cannot go $300,000 in debt to get your master's in sociology. That's stupid. Stop it. God. It's unbelievable. it's ridiculous and this is rachel talked about this when we first started talking about student loans she said we don't have a student loan crisis

we have a parenting crisis moms and dads step up and stop this have a brain and a backbone to go with it stop it when junior comes in and goes i want to go three hundred thousand dollars in debt to be a a social worker with a master's degree say no that's stupid i want to get a degree in music uh so i can be a band leader at the local high school and i'm going to go two hundred thousand dollars in debt no no well you don't believe in music yes i believe in music i don't believe in music as a backdrop to your child's nightmare that's absolute your band leaders at you know the do the marching band at the local high school do not make enough money to justify $150,000 in student loan debt. That's stupid. We have to stop this.

And your stupid butt Congress keeps signing off on this. And you and I are responsible for it because they're federally insured student loans. When they go bad the taxpayer eats it god and it's not that junior can't have the career they can still be the band director the social worker they can still be a pastor but start at community college then go to a public four-year school do study in a way that you can afford to do it right hello there's so many other options please that just breaks my heart for that kid i just i can't i just i want to cry it makes me so angry at this seminary how immoral is that in the name of god to be doing this immoral thing in the name of God to be doing this immoral thing in the name of Jesus.

You ought to be, oh, ridiculous. We have to do better. It's ridiculous. And if they're willing to mess your kid over, you have to be willing to stop it from happening. And all education is not ordained. It's not God-ordained, and it is not economically ordained. All education is not ordained it's not god ordained and it is not economically ordained all education is not worth it so if you want to become the band director at the local high school

i am not putting that down at all if you want to be a social worker a case worker at the state i am not putting that down at all but use some freaking intellect when you're dealing with your education to be stupid about education is as ironic as anything I can think of. And use math. God. Use math. Please. Please.

Sixth grade math. Yeah. How are you going to pay this back making that? Answer. Not. Then don't do it. It's all going to work out because all education is good. No.

When you're stupid about education, you're stupid about everything. Gee, yeesh. Because he's got two little babies, and he's just trapped. Brand new baby getting ready to come any minute. I'm just livid on the people that allowed this to occur. I'm a tiny bit mad at him he was an adult in the process but i'm really upset with his parents in the seminary right and guys you got to know there is a true villain out there lurking and higher education will completely screw you

if you allow them to they have no conscience about it none whatsoever because they're so stupid they believe the same thing some of you that are doing this stuff do and you just you have to stop it you have to stop it this is the problem with student loans if we quit making student loans this stuff will go away right we need to stop this program it is congress stop destroying your citizenry with this. You're screwing our own people. Stop it. God, I'm so pissed.

And you can get a debt-free degree. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Have you been inspired to make a change with your money? Want to know where to start? Take our three-minute money quiz to get a plan you can follow. Go to RamseySolutions.com and search for Get Started to get a plan for your money.