The Ramsey Show - App - I'm Buried in Debt (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Genesee is with us. She is in Springfield, Illinois.

Hi, Genesee. How are you? Hi, I'm doing great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. So I am a fresh new baby graduate and I'm about $217,000 in debt. Both of my parents didn't go to college, so I don't really have anybody to talk to about like loan repayment and things of that nature. I did luckily get gifted your course from a Facebook group that I'm in, and I'm on step two, but I'm wondering, so I'm a single parent. I'm 26 and she's 10. I had her at 16, and I just did school straight through, so no working in between high school, undergrad,

and then I just graduated from veterinary school. Oh, wow. So I have my doctorate. Wow, good for you. Good for you. Thank you very much. I'm just wondering how realistic it is, you know, because it seems like I'll never get to step three with that much debt.

And I know, like I said, I'm on step two in the course, and I see a lot of, like, married couples. We work with a lot of veterinarians in Entree Leadership because a lot of them come through to learn how to run their business, the business aspect of being a veterinarian. And so what I'm discovering just in having conversations with them is that there are veterinarians working in a practice that don't own the practice, lots of them that are making $100.25, $100.50. There are a whole group of them, too, that know, what I would tell you is don't get too caught up in a certain

area of veterinary medicine, get caught up in the area that can make you the most money for a little while. Mm-hmm. So I've actually signed on, um, to a practice. It is a corporate practice, so I don't own it and I don't have any stake in it. Um, I start Monday actually. Okay. corporate practice so i don't own it and i don't have any stake in it um i start monday actually okay and um what's the pace is going to be a hundred and a hundred and five thousand a year ding ding sounds like my information's accurate okay and you'll be going up pretty quick in that

that's just your starting and so you'll be at a hundred and a quarter within a short period of time so i'm pretty close all right and you're used to living on nothing. Yeah. Because you've been a college student your whole life. Yeah. Okay. So if you lived on nothing, how much is nothing? My rent at my house that I was living in in my vet school was about $550. I was one of five roommates. And then my mom was helping me with my daughter at that point in time.

So now when I've moved back to my hometown, my rent, the rent here is pretty insane. It's going to be about, for me to rent and not, you know, have a mortgage, rental homes and rental apartments are looking at about $1,200, $1,100 to $1,200 a month. Okay. And then, you know. That's $14,000 out of $105,000. Yeah.

Okay. Then we've got to eat, and we've got to pay lights, and we're not going to go buy a car on payments. Yep. I have a car. I've owned it. It is on its last leg. You're a veterinarian. Just prop the leg up.

Yep. All right. And then, yeah, and then living expenses and then just I. So here's what I'm saying, all right? $55,000 a year minus taxes is the most you can spend to live. The other $50,000 goes on your debt, and in four years you're done. Okay. So you think it wouldn't be worth signing up for like an income-based repayment um and why would you want to stay in debt the rest of your life i don't okay let's get out of debt in four years okay jesse sooner okay i'm talking to a

woman who at the age of 16 with most people trying to figure out how a blinker works on their mom's car had a child. And you have managed to be a mother and a daughter and a graduate student and now a veterinarian. Making $105,000 at 26 years old. You cannot sell me on the fact that you can't, quote, unquote, do something. You can do anything. I wouldn't fight you for all the money in the world. You're incredible. My friend, Jade Warshaw, who also co-hosts this show,

her and her husband had almost half a million bucks, and they did not have veterinarian in their holster. They were music students. and they did not have veterinarian in their holster they were music students and they did it you here's what's going to be frustrating for you you have been waiting for this moment for so long in your doctor genesee now and that car is going to stay the same and that lifestyle is going to stay the same and that 10 year old kid that you promised just wait just wait just wait it's gonna have like three more years to go now they gotta wait it's gonna take you four years it's gonna take you three to four years to do this and you can also work shifts on saturdays and sundays and maybe even uh do emergency medicine overnight if you need to and let your kids stay with your mom every once in a while if you go pick up another 50 grand doing that, you can be out of debt in two and a half years.

Okay, so it doesn't seem unattainable. You can do this. Here's the big math, okay? Take 200,000 and divide it by the number you're going to put on it a year. I put 50 a year on it out of your 105 a minute ago. Then John added some work to your life and we put another 40 or 50 on it. So 50 a year into 200 is four right right this is attainable and by the way this is not static you're not going to only make 105 for the next four years and the extra income you're not going

to only want to do that forever so but if you go made another 30 or 40 000 bucks and now we put 80 on this you know what is 200 divided by 83 not even okay two and three quarter right okay you following me here it's a big number math you don't have to do you don't have a master's degree in math and finance to pull this off you just divide 200 by the amount you're going to throw at it and that tells you how many years it's going to take for you to get this done you're going to get it done very very quickly and here's underneath the math my mom i've told the story on the show my mom at 42 the age of 42 took her first community college class one class and it was either geometry or algebra one of the two we took it together i was in i was in high

school fast forward to 57 is when she graduated with her PhD and she became a tenured professor at 63. And she teaches her last year at Oxford this summer in her seventies. I tell you that to tell you, I had a ringside seat to a mom who completely transformed her life. And it was hard and she was busy and she had to miss games. And she was working on Saturdays and Sundays writing papers and reading and doing grad school work and as an adult she took away every single excuse I could ever have because I got a ringside seat to watch a gangster be born and so your son is going to watch you and you're going to feel guilty I want you to think of the

long game he's going to watch his mom teach him through action. He can do anything. He's married to, I mean, his mom's a warrior princess. It's incredible. You're giving him the gift of a lifetime. Yep. Way to go. Proud of you. Good work.

This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality Personality is my co-host today. If you're a pastor listening today, we know that you've had a hard few years. You've got long hours. Church attendance is down. Church is still trying to come back after COVID in many cases. And all while trying to keep your own house running. You've had to take care of so much, and we want to take care of you.

You deserve a safe space to talk about the hard things you're dealing with, especially money. So we created a free pastors-only version of Financial Peace University. Over six weeks, you'll learn with pastors from all over the country how to get out of debt and build wealth, how to get control of your money with a budget, how to work with your spouse if you have one, and even how to retire with confidence. It's all free, and this class is led by folks on our team

who understand pastors, many of them are former pastors, and this class is led by folks on our team who understand pastors. Many of them are former pastors, and they have a heart for you. So join our free pastors-only Financial Peace University by visiting ramsaysolutions.com slash pastor, ramsaysolutions.com slash pastor. Today's question of the day comes from Shelly in the Baby Steps Millionaires community on Facebook. John? My mother is always giving me money that I don't ask for, but I know she has bad spending habits. What would you do about this situation?

I've never had this happen to me personally. This a new one this is a new one um i would probably do one of two things the passive part of me would probably take this money and put it into an account and let it just sit because there's going to be a day that she comes and asks for it back um the more four or five years, six or seven years, John would tell my mom, hey, mom, I'm really working hard to build a life with my wife, our own life. And so I appreciate your gift. I'm really grateful for it,

but we want to make a go at this on our own. And so please feel free to give that money to my brother, my sister, whoever else. Yeah. As gentle as I can. The problem is not her. The problem is me. Don't bring up the fact that she's too broke to give.

Nope. Wouldn't even go there. Wouldn't even go there. I would just say, you know, I appreciate this and you're so sweet. A, I don't need it. And B, I'm trying to practice the discipline of living on my own and it would be helpful to me if you would give this to someone else my promise is if i ever get desperate enough i'll call you i won't go hungry i promise mom yeah and you're so sweet and thank you thank you but um i can't

accept this anymore because i'm trying to work on me yeah and just turn turn the whole thing back on yourself that's right yeah yeah there's a the other one that comes up is um and i've heard this one a bunch of times over the years is uh mom and dad are broke but mom keeps buying my kids toys on and trips and whatever grandparents stuff dis stuff, Disney grandparents' stuff, on credit cards and making Mom and Dad worse. How do I stop her from doing that? And it's a similar conversation, only this one's even harder. But it's like, Mom, we're trying to limit what the kids are getting. And, you know, so you just can't do this anymore.

You've got to stop. You're going to have to check with me before you buy anything else and um and then you again there's no it it very seldom is positive to shame them and go you're too broke to do this stop it that doesn't work although that's a true statement but and it's tempting to say that but it's really not profitable davante is with us in minneapolis if i can push the button there is hey davante how are you And it's tempting to say that, but it's really not profitable. Devontae is with us in Minneapolis. If I can push the button, there he is. Hey, Devontae, how are you? Hey, how you doing?

I'm doing well. Good. How can I help? Well, the better is just getting the question out there. I guess I'll just say a question. You guys can rip into me after that. The question I have is that I have a car. I have about $50,000 in debt.

The car is a little over half of that at about 27, 19% interest rate I'm trying to get out. And then a follow-up question is just if I'm gazelle-intense enough based on how much I'm working and the things I'm doing to make money. You owe $27,000 on a car at 19%? Yes. Okay. What's the car worth? $27,000 on a car at 19%? Yes. Okay. What's the car worth? $14,000.

Did you roll negative equity from another deal into this one? No, I didn't. Okay. You're looking at the wrong number then. Because a 19% loan is a subprime loan. Translation, they screwed you, okay, or you screwed yourself by signing up for this. And they have a different calculation on those loans. When you ask for the balance, they use a total of all payments, a TOP number, to give you the loan balance.

That is not the payoff. So your payoff is unlikely to be $27,000, not with a $14,000 value. How long ago did you buy the car? This is about a year ago, just under. Yeah, what'd you pay for the car? Thus far, I've paid about 700. No, no, honey, what was the price of the car when you signed the paperwork, the total price of the car, not the financing. What was the price of the car? Oh, I guess I don't know the answer to that. It was $27 on the only overall price that came out was $27, so I thought that was the value.

Well, I mean, if the car is worth $14, honey, you surely didn't pay $27 for it a year ago. Unless you went to one of those. It was a third-party dealer. I was just desperate trying to get into something low credit, and that's what they gave me. I know, but even those guys don't do that. Okay, so I really think that you probably actually paid $17 or $18 for the car,

and your total of payments is 27 so you have a finance company you're paying this money to right yes okay call them and ask them for what the payoff is if i bring a check today and pay it off and they're going to tell you more like 20. Okay. Or 18 or something like that. That's the number you're going to get. And you obviously don't have any money, right? No, I've since recovered my situation, so I do. How much do you have? Like on hand or over time?

On hand. Oh, I'm sorry, no. Currently speaking, no, I don't have any in savings. Oh, you don't have any money okay so i was right all right what do you make um 100 and anywhere between 113 130 depending on how long have you been doing that um four months why don't you have any money i I've been putting everything to debt. Okay. All right. I want you to stop putting it to debt because I want this car to get sold. Okay.

I want you to stop putting it to debt. I want you to save up enough to sell the car for 14 and put 7,000 with it and sell the car because it's going to be 2021, 18, something like that payoff. Then I want you to go get a $2,000 car and pay cash for it. This car needs to go bye-bye. It's bad juju bad car i agree there's going to be a sense dude that you're taking seven thousand or ten thousand whatever that final payoff is and putting it in your backyard and just lighting it on fire and you are no you already did that now all we're doing is admitting it yeah we're just yeah and it's gonna hurt and uh it's it's gonna be a good scar or tattoo for you to never do this

again ever yeah and so desperation makes us do crazy things man everything you did when you went on the car lot a hundred percent of your moves were wrong you went on the car lot wrong move you bought a car you never looked at what it's valued at you have no idea what it was you just said if i sign here i can drive it off yes and you signed whatever they put in front of you you never looked at it this is the recipe for getting screwed and if you do it again you're going to get screwed again if you do it again you're going to get screwed again yeah this is how it works this is how these people exist in these rip-off car situations uh and so uh they feed on the desperation and the immaturity of people and so uh the next time

this comes up you need to step back breathe a little bit and think okay where can i get a thousand dollar car and i how where can i get a thousand dollars and let's get a $1,000 car? And how, where can I get $1,000? And let's get a garage sale car, car you bought a garage sale, and drive it around a little bit. And if it goes bad after a month or two, it was still cheaper than your payments. And go get you another one. I mean, these are disposable cars, like disposable phones, when you're doing a $1,000 car compared to what you're driving. But yeah, this thing is, it's a weight around your neck. It's shaming to you every time you get in it, every time you write the check. It's a ripoff. There's nothing good coming out of it. I would do everything I could to get rid of it as soon

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blessing and not a burden so we recommend neighborly's network of service professionals to repair maintain and improve your home find the help you need at neighborly.com all right today's question comes from andy in virginia when i get closer to retirement how do i access the money in my retirement funds? Do I take a set amount each month? Do I only take money made off interest and leave the principal loan? How do I make the money last? That's the question, Dave. And I love the simplistic, mechanistic question here, man. How do I do this? Well, you can set it up with your broker. You have the money in the mutual funds, hopefully in your 401k, your Roth IRAs, that kind of thing. You decide which of your

different retirement accounts, because most people are going to end up with more than one retirement account. You may have a 401k from an old job. You may have Roth IRAs that you did. Your wife might have had a 401k rolled over. Those are all different buckets of money. You say, okay, out of those buckets of money, we're going to draw on this many. We're going to draw this much. And you can set a set amount and say, I'm going to draw this amount. I'm going to draw $5,000 a month. Or you can say, I'm going to pull a percentage a month. Or you can say, I'm going to pull the gains. I would not say I'm going to pull the gains. If you've got the money invested in good growth stock mutual funds

that have a track record that's 10% to 12%, if you pull off 10% of it or 8%, let's say you pull off 8% of it and it makes a 12%, then you've left 4 in there. If it makes 10, you left 2 in there. So it's going to be growing forever. You're not only not hitting the principle, you're not – it is continuing to grow. So it will run in perpetuation if you do that. So, in other words, if the percentage that you're pulling off is less than the percentage,

average percentage of growth, then you're going to come out. So over a 10-year period of time, if it averages growing 10 to 12 and you pull off eight every year, you're going to not have touched the principle at all in the end. You will have, I will have grown. Now it might or might not have kept up with inflation, but you know, if you've got a million dollars and you're pulling off 8 percent that's eighty thousand bucks a year and that's you know that's how you live and so or you pull it out a lump sum does it come out monthly i just set it up monthly just get a monthly check on it eight percent divided by 12

and just have that amount coming out i want eight percent of the thing coming out to me um or you can say look there's a million dollars there so i'm gonna i'm gonna say 80 000 bucks and have a monthly check come on 80 000 bucks a year it's whatever that happens you know and uh or i'm gonna pull 40 000 bucks on 500 000 that'd still be eight percent and so you know that that or you know i don't quite want to do that so i'm gonna pull 36 000 which36,000, which is $3,000 a month. I'm going to have $3,000 a month coming off. And it'll last forever if you do that.

What about a mandatory disbursement? What is that? So you have the required minimum distributions that begin at 73 on traditional IRAs and traditional 401ks. If you're doing this, you will easily meet that. Okay. You will easily meet that. So it's not a problem at all. If they're Roth IRAs, they don't have that. Okay. You will easily meet that. So it's not a problem at all. If they're Roth IRAs, they don't have that.

Or Roth 401ks. So let's say you're in a situation like you, Dave, and you've got some rental properties that are generating cash flow. You're not technically working anymore, but money's getting deposited, and now you have this mandatory withdrawal that you have to make. Can you take that money out and just reinvest it it becomes taxable when you take it out the purpose of them making you take it out is so they can tax it so you get some money from you yeah so you're going to take

it out it's a taxable event so i have this income now what do i do with that money you can do whatever you want to do with your money you can invest it you can give it you can do whatever you want to do with it but it's it's coming out and you're going to pay taxes on the required minimum distribution beginning at age 73 okay so either way uh except for that part where uh it's like me and i'm not working because i still work correct yeah just to be clear okay i was pretending you were 73 oh how do you know i'm not working when I'm 73? Well, that's only 10 years. This is an uncomfortable conversation, John. I think it's very comfortable. One of us is living in reality.

You're thinking I'm going to be playing more golf and spending more time in Cabo. That's what you're thinking. I think you're going to be 73. I'm just saying. That's how that works. All right. Joanne is with us in Boston.

Joanne, get us out of this. How can we help? Hi, Dave. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I have a question. Should I sell my house and downsize?

I'll give you my numbers. I'm 59. I'm single. My salary is 152K. My house is worth 950. I owe 380. And also I have 401K. It's 450 in the 401K and my savings is 20K. Why would you sell your house? That's a good question. There's a couple reasons. I live in Massachusetts. I'm remote.

And I was thinking to go southern New Hampshire and get away from some of the taxes. Okay. So you want to move to a different state? Yes, which is only 20 minutes. It's that close. Yeah, and I was also thinking now I'm 59, I'm single, and I have to mow the lawn and do the yard work. Well, if you bought a house in Jersey, would you not have to mow the yard lawn?

Oh, I was thinking a townhome, so I wouldn't have to. So that's another thing, a townhome. Okay. Yes. Okay, so you're thinking of getting something that helps you get rid of the maintenance, that's a little newer, and a better tax situation. Yes. If you spend exactly the same money, it'd be a net gain in lifestyle

and no change in your finances. Right. I was thinking a bit smaller. Yeah. If you move down down then it's kind of a net gain and uh but there's you you don't have to do this for your finances your finances are not out of control but you're wanting a better quality of life by moving down well that's kind of a no-brainer do it just do it okay yeah i mean you're you're not gonna you're not going further in debt you're not

going to bankrupt yourself by doing this you're going the other way you're going to free up money have a lesser mortgage which you could get paid off going into retirement which is the thing you need to be doing you need to be aiming at getting that paid off so if you bought a townhouse in jersey what would it cost she's going to new hampshire oh new hampshire i'm sorry what would it cost i keep sending you jersey i Hampshire. Oh, New Hampshire. I'm sorry. What would it cost? I keep sending you to Jersey. You did something wrong, apparently. Probably, it looks like $550.

Instead of $950? Yeah. Yeah, I can get a townhome there. I've been looking. So you're paying cash. Yeah. Yeah, I'm doing this for sure. Move tomorrow.

Yes. Because if you've got no house payment, now we're going to pile up cash even more. So let's play this out. You've got $450,000 in your 401k, and now you've got no house payment, and you said your household income is $152,000, you're single, right? Yes. Okay. So the $450, the 450 if it's invested

in good mutual funds in your 401k if it's not make sure it is will double about every seven years you're 59 and a half when you're 66 that's 950 okay so when you're 73 that magic number that old old people those old people. Shut up, John. It's $2 million. Yeah. Okay, so when you're 73, if you've got this invested in good mutual funds, you're going to have $2 million if you add nothing to your retirement and a paid-for house. You have no bills, yeah.

I think we call that a touchdown in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah, and you're going to be adding even more to it so you're going to have four million dollars that's going to be fun yeah this is great this is great this and and you don't have to cut the grass i mean there's all these benefits there's all these and like that because those old people can't cut grass yeah that's it she's going to be getting it and you won't be in new hampshire and that's you're being i mean you won't be in new jersey you'll be in in New Hampshire instead. So there you go.

I was trying to send her there. I really was. You were trying hard. I think it was Alzheimer's. No, I think in addition to being really good with numbers, you were also a geography savant. It's outstanding. Outstanding. And sarcasm is your spiritual gift.

There it is. It's just over there and it's cold. It'sasm is your spiritual gift. There it is. It's just over there and it's cold. It's north and there's taxes and Yankees. Yeah, that's right. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day matthew 13 16 but blessed are your eyes because they see and your ears because they hear bernie brown said i don't have to chase extraordinary moments to find happiness it's right in front of me if i'm paying attention and practicing gratitude denya is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Denya.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey. Hey, what's up? Thank you for having me. Sure. Yeah, I just have me and my husband. I'm 52. My husband's 54. We don't have anything

saved for retirement, and I was trying to possibly go back to school. I'm a registered nurse, and if I went back to school, my income would go up. As an advanced nurse practitioner, that's what I was thinking of going towards, but we do have a lot of debt. I don't know if it's practical at my age and his age. He was concerned about that. It's 100% practical to go back to school. It is a dreadful idea to borrow money to do it.

I have 100% confidence you could get through an MPA program. Please don't borrow money against it. So where do you work? I work part-time in hospital, PRN, and also at a nursing home, PRN. I do a few days a week with both of them. So I would check out some of the local hospitals and see if they will hire you and then have an education program that pays for your NP. Where you are, they don't have that ed program.

But a hospital would. You work as a registered nurse in a hospital. They'll pay for you to get your NP. Yeah, the local hospital is probably about an hour away. I did work there years ago and the distance was the issue. And it is a graduate degree.

I don't know. They'll pay for it. They want NPs. Someone will. Someone in corporate medicine will pay for an NP. Now, they're not going to the nursing home. They're not going to a nonprofit, and they're not going to a hospice or a PRN situation. None of those that I've never seen one of those that has a program that pays for it.

But hospitals and large doctor practices that are corporate-owned, most of them have an education program and would love to have their registered nurses become in peace. They need them. Gotcha. I'll also tell you this. It doesn't hurt to ask where you are. One supervisor I went to at one point, we didn't have a program. And I said, hey, I really want to get this.

Will you help me with it? And he said, no, but I'll send you to Harvard. So he sent me to Harvard for a program. Then another boss, I said, hey, can I take this money and move it over here for graduate school? And she's like, I never even thought of that. Absolutely, go for it. And that's how I got my second degree paid for.

And so it may be worth sitting down and saying, I'll go full-time, but I need some help on this, or here's what I want to do. Will you all help me get there? The worst they can tell you is, no, and you're right back in the same spot, but they may surprise you. You may have to go to a full-time gig somewhere to get that though absolutely i

think you have to go to a full-time gig wherever you got two part-time gigs right now right yeah about part-time yeah yeah and you know you're making good money uh probably possibly but you you might make a little less money and have them pay for your degree. And do you all own your home? We do. We have a mortgage. Okay. What does your husband make? He makes about $50 a year.

What do you make? About $35. Yeah, you're not working much. Registered nurse ought to be making $70 if they're working $40. Why aren't you working that much um well i just took a breather uh for a little while here um i've just been home with my and just kind of taking care of stuff at home what stuff is at home kids well yeah i just i just got my hours cut a little bit.

I just needed a break a little bit. How much debt have you got? We have a lot. How much? Mortgage is $260,000, credit card debt is $330,000. I do have a student

loan that's $15,000 for my bachelor's, which I took that when I was working at the hospital. You guys need to sit down and have some soul-searching conversations, don't you? Because I've talked to two different women on this phone. One of them was willing to lay it all out on the line and go back to school and go in debt to get an advanced degree as a nurse practitioner so she could make more money to get out degree an advanced degree as a nurse practitioner so she

can make more money to get out of debt the other one isn't even working much and doesn't do anything except sit at home these are two different women and i talked to both of them in the last few minutes did you hear me i understand the woman that i'm talking to that what doesn't want to work much doesn't need to go back and get a degree. Is there something else going on? No. You sound like you have some heaviness in you, like in your soul. You sound exhausted, but exhausted spiritually.

Right. Yeah, I'm trying to figure that all out. Okay. All right, honey, so the way we're going to get you out of debt is we're going to get your income way up, but that's going to involve a lot of hours. And I can get hope from that if I'm you, because I can see that instead instead of making 35 I'm making 80 but I'm working all the time and that extra 50,000 a year is going to clean up this debt

really really fast and I'm not tired in that situation I'm not exhausted I'm not fatigued to where I can't breathe I might be tired but but it's a it's a good tired because I'm not fatigued to where I can't breathe. I might be tired, but it's a good tired because I'm getting traction and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train. If you can find energy in the fact that you're going to accomplish the goal and gear back up, then you can clear the debt and you can start to make the moves towards nurse practitioner. The condition that you're in today where you want to work just a few hours a week, there's no point in going to be a nurse practitioner.

It doesn't serve any point because you're not going to utilize the extra degree to get any extra income. And I would not go to the expense or the trouble to go get the degree if that's going to be your plan. But I don't think that's your plan. I think you've kind of surrendered because you lost hope that you were ever going to be your plan. But I don't think that's your plan. I think that you've kind of surrendered because you lost hope that you were ever going to get out. Dave, and it also sounds if we had another hour to sit with our friend,

it almost sounds like if she wrote home an extra $50,000, her husband would have that money spent before that check cashed. And she may just be saying, I'm done. Like, I'm tired of not being on the same page. And so there's something about sitting down and saying, if we're going to get out of debt, we're going to do the same together. Yeah. Yeah.

The two of you together sit down and say, all right, we're both going to work an extreme number of hours and we're both going to knock this out in 12 to 18 months. And then I'm going to go get a nurse practitioner degree and then we're going to go become wealthy. We're only 52 and we have 15 years before we're 67. You could build substantial wealth in 15 years if you clear all the debt and you guys create extra incomes, increase your incomes. But simply going back to school as an escape mechanism is not going to work.

We see a lot of people do that and then they've got an escape mechanism with a student loan attached to it and this is a double dip and um you know it's a double dip you just don't want to do it in bad things so just not go there please please please don't go borrow money and go back to college right It would be a bad idea. Do sit down with your husband and do say, what if we were to live on beans and rice? What if I was to pick up and double my hours? What if you doubled your hours? What could we do? How fast could we get this done? What do we need to sell? What do we got to do? And when are we going to grow up and be responsible with money and not spend everything we make so that we can retire with some dignity? Because

I'm tired of being scared. As a matter of fact, I'm exhausted from being scared. And let's step into that. Do that. That's going to make sense for you. So, hey, hang on. We'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. The two of you can sit down and read it this weekend together, and it'd be life-changing if you got on the same page.

There's something really special that goes on when you do that. Dr. John Deloney, good hour. Thanks for being with me. You got it, man. All right. And Jenna, Ben, James, Zach, and Andrew are all in the booth making this show happen. Thanks, guys. We appreciate you.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to RamseySolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's RamseySolutions.com and click Get Started.